Mountain Cog
Mountain bike podcast that will make you laugh and learn. Featuring a wide range of passionate guests. Available everywhere (Apple, Spotify etc).
Mountain Cog
092 - SRAM vs Shimano: Comparing Mountain Bike Components with SRAM Field Guide Jimmy Nordloh
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In this episode, we sit down with Jimmy Nordloh, SRAM Field Guide for the Southwest region, to explore the evolution and innovation behind one of mountain biking's leading component manufacturers. Jimmy shares insights into SRAM's brand portfolio including RockShox, Zipp, Truvativ, Quark, Time Pedals, and Hammerhead, explaining how SRAM has grown through strategic acquisitions while maintaining quality across their product lines. Listeners will gain valuable perspective on the differences between SRAM and Shimano components, with particular focus on serviceability and compatibility.
The conversation delves into technical discussions about SRAM's breakthrough products, including the Reverb AXS wireless dropper post, the revolutionary Charger 3.1 damper with Buttercups technology, and the evolution of SRAM's braking systems from Avid Elixir to the current models. Jimmy offers professional advice on brake bedding techniques, component selection for desert and various riding conditions, and how SRAM's wireless ecosystem creates unprecedented integration opportunities for cyclists. Whether you're a mechanic, bike shop owner, or passionate rider, this episode provides insider knowledge on mountain bike technology past, present, and future.
SRAM MTB Products
SRAM MTB: https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain
Rockshox: https://www.sram.com/en/rockshox
Truvativ: https://www.sram.com/en/truvativ
Zipp: https://www.sram.com/en/zipp
Quarq: https://www.sram.com/en/quarq
Time: https://www.sram.com/en/time-sport
Hammerhead: https://www.hammerhead.io/
Velocio: https://velocio.cc/?__woopraid=gtJLkWVFnj0g
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SRAM Portfolio Overview
Speaker 1james is over here playing the piano . I think I'm gonna sell my piano . I haven't played it in like a year . I have one . Yeah , that's not gonna . My kids haven't played it actually .
Speaker 2No , that's not true . We got a . We got a real piano from nana and pop pop like an acoustic piano like , yeah , like a big-ass one , not an e-piano . They had to hire people to bring it into the house .
Speaker 1A .
Speaker 2Steinway , something like that . Yeah , and my son is on it all the time . He loves it , and so my wife is pretty stoked about that because he has a pretty good ear for music . He's always listening to music and stuff . Yeah , I thought you guys played that live every time . No , but he , you know that's him right . Oh my god , would you stop telling people that yeah , I do every episode , but he listens , so he should know that . Yeah , he's probably , he's heard you say it .
Speaker 1Six , times I'm gonna have to write a new one . I think you're just gonna start cutting me out . Yeah , I'm just gonna be like did you know ? And then I'll just it'll be a blank , and then 15 seconds later I'll be like you should like overlay .
Speaker 2Like a chicken noise , did you know ?
Speaker 1I gotta get . I'm gonna program one into one of these things here so we can get can you dig it ?
Speaker 3like a chicken sound that would be awesome , complete with the soundboard .
Speaker 2Dane clucking again .
Speaker 1All right , you got something to tell us yeah , dad joke .
Speaker 3To start us off . Let's see , penguin takes his car into a shop .
Speaker 1It says Like the penguin from Batman or a penguin .
Speaker 3That's a hot topic right now , but no , just a penguin .
Speaker 1Tuxedo penguin it's a hot topic right now , but no , just a penguin .
Speaker 3Tuxedo penguin he's very lost from the polls Takes his car into the shop . Ask the mechanic how bad is it ? He goes . Well , looks like you blew a seal . Oh , he goes . No , it's just ice cream .
Speaker 2Oh , a two-parter .
Speaker 1That was a double punchline .
Speaker 2Yeah , I don't think we've had a two-parter . That was a double punchline . Yeah , I don't think we've had a two-parter .
Speaker 1I've got one I want to tell , but I'm just going to save it in case we need one for the next . Do it in the middle .
Speaker 3Just randomly , we've had a couple of those .
Speaker 1What was it ? Dave Slagle did one . He had it all planned out too . He's like do you have any final thoughts ? He's , that's right it was .
Speaker 2It was like the microbiologist joke or something like that oh , that's right .
Speaker 1I rode with a microbiologist . That's fun . Would you like to introduce yourself , my friend ?
Speaker 3Sure , absolutely One thanks for having me .
Speaker 1Absolutely Big fans .
Speaker 3Thanks for coming , you guys are the background noise to a lot of my driving .
Speaker 2Nice Podcasts are awesome for driving .
Speaker 3Yes , I know right , I'm Jimmy . Jimmy Nordloh James , that's my legal name . But I can't think of anyone that would probably call me that . Yeah , I am the SRAM field guide for the Southwest Arizona , new Mexico . Been with SRAM for about seven years now , started in the warranty support team , the 1-800 hotline for dealers across the US . Did you work with Alana ? Yes , you did .
Speaker 2Yes , absolutely , she's still there . I don't have a crush over her .
Speaker 3I have like a professional crush on Alana A lot of people say that Not like a girl crush but she's just such a cool person . She's made a lot of good happen for Zip . Yeah , no , she was the department manager for a time there , but yeah , she's a fixture there at the indie office .
Speaker 2Yeah , she's helped me with so many boxer forks . You have no idea , okay so ?
Speaker 1before we get started , you just said something that made me think I didn't even put two and two together that Zip was part of SRAM . Oh , yeah , so like , maybe you could start out by educating us on , like , what are all the product brands that kind of fall under the SRAM umbrella ?
Speaker 3I think I get that a lot , a lot of . Uh wait , sram owns that . What ? Yeah , it's crazy . Uh , no , I mean , sram is a company that's grown by acquisition mostly . Um , you know , we , we find organic . Yeah , that's what I do , oh , finding people that are good at what they do and you know , bringing them into the fold . Um so yeah , sram uh owns the brands RockShox , zip , truvative , quark , hammerhead and , most recently , the apparel brand .
Speaker 2Velocio . Oh , I didn't know that .
Speaker 1I know all those brands except for Quark ?
Speaker 3Tell me about Quark . So Quark was the standalone brand of the power meter technology for a long time Now , more so . It's kind of just like absorbed into the inline road power meters . But we still , you know , call out the the licensed cork technology , and that office is up in Spearfish Spearfish , south Dakota .
Speaker 1Spearfish South Dakota , black .
Speaker 2Hills , offices everywhere , colorado Springs yeah , I'll .
Speaker 3I'll list those off to a U S locations Chicago global HQ , indian , indianapolis , zip manufacturing warehouse and uh , warranty and retail support . And then you got Colorado Springs , the home of rock shocks . Um , now kind of our new flagship building . Um , there's uh , we moved recently to a to an all new facility there . That's , that's awesome . Uh , probably , I think , our biggest us location now . Um , quark and spearfish , um , kind of a smaller outfit . Um , you know , those are all the engineers that started out working on the power meters . So it's a smaller , more agile team there , the the , you know , kind of the nerds behind data guys .
Speaker 2I was just thinking that like they don't need much space .
Speaker 3No , yeah , exactly I mean , where they started was basically a shed , turn it into , you know , a huge product , um , and then , uh , lastly , san Luis Obispo , um , and that was the home of true vative , uh , before the acquisition , um , and that's still another like an engineering forward office .
Speaker 2So , again , pretty pretty skeleton crew , true vatives still there . They're still doing stuff , so it's not . I mean , I noticed the cranks kind of got , you know , absorbed .
Speaker 3Yeah , same thing like Quark . Um , you know the the Truvative technology , still called out and licensed , I think still is . You know one of the terms of of the acquisition back then ? Um , but yeah , truvative was basically , uh , you know how we got our bottom bracket and crank , uh , you know business and products uh , up and running . Uh , like , for instance , they were the ones that pioneered dub Yep , oh , I didn't know that ?
Speaker 2Oh , I didn't know that . That's cool .
Speaker 1So , like when you say the word absorbed , when you say that basically what you're meaning is the core technology , the intellectual property gets like rebranded now as a SRAM product or another one of your brands . It doesn't call out true native all the time , but it's still part of the same family .
Speaker 3Exactly , Uh think avid as well .
Speaker 2I was just about to say you missed one .
Speaker 3I know I know we , we don't really call that one out as much anymore .
Speaker 2What is it ?
Speaker 3The little roll of a jig on the back of the derailleur is's still an avid thing that is still stamped with the avid mark .
Speaker 1Yeah , exactly , on all uh equal mechanical for anybody who worked at avid that's like so so shram acquired avid yes that was again one of the early uh acquisitions did I still keep a set of bb7s in my oh , that's a great mechanical disc brake , right , yeah , I just like , eventually I'm going to build them up . They they're so easy .
Speaker 2They're great , especially if you're building a monster gravel . It's perfect , because then you can run regular road stuff on it , but then put disc brakes on it .
Speaker 1That's awesome .
Speaker 2There's a different leverage ratio if you use road levers . Did you know that there's a road BB7 .
Speaker 3Yeah , a short pull versus long pull , oh no shit .
Speaker 1Well , that would explain some problems I've had .
Speaker 3Yeah , yeah , Some people have mixed those up . You run the flat bar on the short pull road caliper . You're going to have about a millimeter of lever throw and the other way gets a little mushy . Yeah , exactly it still works .
Speaker 2I mean , you probably won't die , maybe yeah .
Speaker 1So I keep hearing all the bicycle strategists guys like me but for the bike industry they talk about further acquisition , further consolidations happening . So I'd love to get some inside information . Who are you guys going to buy next ?
Speaker 3Well , Juan , that is way above my pay grade . No , each one comes as a surprise to me .
Speaker 2What would you buy ? What's a brand that you see ? That's out there , that's ripe for the weekend . Well , I tried to buy Gorilla Gravity , but it didn't work .
Speaker 3Well there you go . I thought you could , I thought you could go clear . No , they've already sold . Oh yeah , that's true , I forgot they ended up selling all those Can't do Pro's Closet .
Speaker 1They went bankrupt . Pro's Closet went bankrupt .
Speaker 2Yeah , but then they just oh interesting , another former employer of mine .
Speaker 3Oh , really no way , we'll talk about that .
Speaker 1I don't know . I think that I would probably go to the source , although I'm a little worried about China invading Taiwan .
Speaker 2I think there's a couple e-bike motor companies that are right . Did you see what ?
Speaker 1happened yesterday .
Speaker 2Sorry , keep going , we'll come back to the China topic .
Speaker 1Keep going .
Speaker 2No , tell , shot off the airspace . Yeah , but they're all fishing boats . They're not fishing boats . They told us they were .
Speaker 3Yeah , exactly , I was going from the official report .
Speaker 2No , I've been sworn off the news so I haven't heard anything about the news Other than bike stuff . I am definitely absorbing bike news .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think by the time that we well , it would be interesting to ask him if he knows who these guys are . Cause , by the time we publish this episode , we will have published at least the first faction bike studio . Oh yeah , episode . Are you familiar with faction bike studio ?
Speaker 2No , you'll have to listen .
Speaker 1Yes , yeah , it's pretty cool . This is a . We're really excited about this episode , yep , where we get into deep technology with the top of their R&D organization . Yeah , I want to talk geometry . You want to talk geometry ? Yeah , yeah , that's geometry .
Speaker 2Suspension kinematics , I feel like . So I'm trying to think .
SRAM Trivia and Bike Accessories
Speaker 2Sram doesn't have shoes . They don't have helmets .
Speaker 3There's a lot of stuff that SRAM could have . You know , there's so many players in that space already . I mean , so I guess , on the topic of of acquisitions , uh , really , the only two that occurred during my time , um , everything was , you know , already well-established . Um , I joined SRAM in 2017 . So I don't think . Yeah , I think the most recent acquisition to there was probably , I think zip was the last one in 2007 .
Speaker 3Yeah , Um , and that's when they outfitted the whole indie office . Um , but yeah , most recently in the last two years have been hammerhead and Volosio . Um yeah , Hammerhead is a really cool tie-in . I mean having a bicycle computer , that's , you know , just completely native to all SRAM access products has been a huge advantage . I really genuinely never rode with a head unit before uh trying out my hammerhead , and you know now I'm like the kind of person that doesn't go out on a ride without a computer and a power meter .
Speaker 2So you know how um , kleenex is like what we think of for nose tissue . You know that's garbage and so you're is hammerhead like a .
Speaker 1I thought you were talking about hammer , like the nutrition . No , no , yeah , that's kind of why I said you're like talking about bike computers . I'm like what the hell ? But it's not a bike computer .
Speaker 3It's a gps right yeah , yeah , I mean , I mean it's a full ensuite . Yeah , gps , so like can you ?
Speaker 2does it start playing well with all of these other things that are on the bikes that play well ? It's not just SRAM stuff , For sure .
Speaker 3Yeah for sure , it's also AMP plus compatible et cetera , and then it just kind of streamlines specifically the SRAM integration . It's super , super easy , do you ?
Speaker 1guys get jacked up by the Strava API change . No , ooh , I didn't hear about that .
Speaker 2So what does that mean ?
Speaker 1All the roadies are freaking out . They totally have overwhelmed it . But Strava came out and changed their API or they're about to change their API in the next couple weeks and it's going to prohibit integration with some other products some other apps .
Speaker 2Help me with what an API is .
Speaker 1Oh , Jesus Christ . This is the protocol that enables kind of two disparate systems to talk to each other .
Speaker 2It's kind of like a bus system .
Speaker 1So think more like software code .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1This is like it kind of this is how you talk to her , this is how you use this , the language , something like that .
Speaker 3Yeah , like a translation protocol .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's how I understand it . I'm not a software engineer but uh . But I know everyone's freaking out about the API , but I think they're all overreacting . Oh okay , Time will tell . By the time this podcast episode comes out , people will already know .
Speaker 2So they changed it to like shut out people .
Speaker 1Shut a couple different yeah , a couple apps out that were using their data in ways that they didn't think were appropriate or were violating their intellectual policy .
Speaker 2So they switched to Pig Latin and didn't tell anyone what the translation was . No , no , they announced it .
Speaker 1They said we're going to turn off the shoot to you , you , you and you .
Speaker 3Oh , okay , and everyone thinks oh my God , Strava's not going to work with anything anymore .
Speaker 1That's not true , but it'll be interesting to see how it plays out .
Speaker 3Who did shut out ?
Speaker 1I did not notice any interruption . You're getting deeper . I probably shouldn't have brought this shit up . Well , now you know , what's funny is the death of strava .
Speaker 2Finally , no , it's , I actually like strava for a lot of things .
Speaker 1Like you know , you can find trails , you can get , find people you know like lacy stalks people on strava says stalk is the wrong word but like finds interesting badass women to ride with yes is a better way to say it . Yes , she . She's my wife , by the way , which I actually think is smart because you can go .
Speaker 2Hey , this , this person is riding at the same level . I am , maybe we can hit a ride or something , and I won't be waiting the whole time or they won't be waiting . So I actually think Strava should integrate that .
Speaker 1Ooh , find someone that rides like you . Yeah , you should suggest that as an idea .
Speaker 2Yeah , I know because I'm smart . You are very smart , so I got some SRAM trivia .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , go for it . See , so , uh , I got some sram trivia oh yeah , see if we can stump jimmy .
Speaker 3I doubt it , seriously doubt it yeah what was the first product ?
Speaker 2I would say that people think was sram first product that people think was sram our actual first product . Or just I want to say , you know , I'm afraid to say it was your first product because it wasn't called SRAM . That's true , it's GripShift . Yes , exactly , yeah , that's what . So GripShift was the start , right ? Yep , 1987 . Yeah , they started with a derailleur . Well , they started with shifters and then derailleur , and then they just kept going .
Speaker 3Yeah , yeah , josh , what do you think ?
Speaker 2SRAM stands for .
Speaker 1I know what he's going to tell you . I already have my own acronym .
Speaker 2No , I was going to say what does it translate to in Poland ? Oh , is it Polish .
Speaker 1Yeah , sram .
Speaker 2Polish .
Speaker 3You've heard this right ? Yeah , I think it's a euphemism , it's shit or something . Yeah , exactly .
Speaker 2Anybody who doesn't like SRAM loves that trivia .
Speaker 1Oh my gosh , you shouldn't have told me that .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , oh yeah , it is funny because you put it into Google and it happens .
Speaker 1I have a friend coming back from Poland next week that I'm going to meet and have lunch with her , and I'll ask her if SRAM means poop in Polish .
Speaker 3Okay , all right , confirm what's your guess for those four letters what's my guess for ? I'm gonna look at the acronym right there uh speed racing awesome machine that I like it honestly that probably sticker yeah it's kind of more exciting than the real answer what's the real answer ? Uh , it's just an acronym . It's uh . It's an acronym of the uh founding members ofAM first initials . So Scott Ray and Sam and Sam Yep Sam was the last one , scott Ray and Sam Ray being the middle name of our longtime CEO Stan .
Speaker 1Stan .
Speaker 2Day .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 1Okay , so they just took random letters from Scott Ray and Sam and made SRAM out of it .
Speaker 3Yeah , an amalgamation of their first initials .
Speaker 2You think they had to navigate . How long ago was that , do you think ?
Speaker 3I forget when the name actually got assigned , but I know that it was right before Interbike that year and they didn't have a name for the company yet , so that's what they came up with .
Speaker 2I wonder if you've got to navigate this world . So people ask about guru bikes all the time . Yeah , um , hey , you know there was a guru bikes there was a bike company called .
Speaker 1I still get those . If you google guru , guru , it still comes up they have a guru guru fit system .
Speaker 2So if you notice , uh , tyler's fit system is called vandruff and so that he doesn't deal with that oh , that's interesting and that's not why he did it , but that's one of the happy things . It's a good excuse . Exactly , yeah , and I wonder if they had to figure something out . Have to think about that . I know Santa Cruz's bike , the Solo , had to be changed to 5010 . And then somebody else had to change their name .
Speaker 3Oh , envy , just for IP . Envy used to be Edge .
Speaker 2Yeah yeah , edge Composites . And they had to change their name after a couple years because somebody in Europe once they went global they had to pay attention Interesting .
Speaker 3That's a good point . I think that was probably one of the motivations to just yeah , picking just the names that I can't copyright this . Just slam some stuff together and making a unique name .
Speaker 2I guess they didn't Google .
Speaker 3Polish , which is ironic because there's a lot of Poles in Chicago . Oh , there you go .
Speaker 1I didn't think that you would be Googling in 1986 .
Speaker 2I'm just saying , that's true . There you go .
Speaker 1OK , I'm facing south , looking at your bench , and I'm seeing two signs of shimano and shram . Why is the shram sign better , bigger ?
Speaker 2well . So hey , you want to know some some guru trivia ? Yeah . So jimmy came in one time and he gave us a shram sign . Yeah and uh , I like shram , I like them both . Yeah , you know , I really do . Um , but he put it right over , uh , willie's bench , oh , and willie's a a Shimano guy yeah , and he so . Willie complained to our Shimano rep and the Shimano rep brought in the Shimano sign . Which just cracks me up . It's like West Side Story . Yeah , it is . Yeah , we're all going to come out snapping our fingers .
Speaker 1Where's the micro shift ? I'm expecting to see that . Oh , whatever , yeah , that's not going to happen , although my whatever yeah , that's not going to happen .
Speaker 2So , although my kids' bikes have micro shift , Do they ? Really yeah On their old ones , not on the new ones .
Speaker 1So the new ones have SRAM All right . Jimmy . So , you've heard us talk on this podcast before you know like exclusively I run Shimano . Today I have run SRAM in the past for sure .
Speaker 3Yeah , uh , gx level or above . I think back in the day it was called X nine , uh , yep , yeah , yeah , that was a while ago .
Speaker 1A long time ago . Yeah , x5 , x7 . I didn't mess with the X5 or X7 , but X9 or above .
SRAM vs Shimano Comparison
Speaker 1So exclusively Shimano , everything , brakes , drivetrain , everything . Sell me on SRAM . Tell me why I'm wrong .
Speaker 3It's such an open-ended question .
Speaker 1I know .
Speaker 3And honestly , you know , honestly , you really can't get , you know , a bad group set these days .
Speaker 2No , they both do great , for sure , and we mix them all the time , but don't tell Jimmy that .
Speaker 3So I see it all the time . Oh God , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2Like that's , like the mechanic , like I don't know . Holy grail for us is to know what can work with what you know , and to , and then , and then Shimano coined the term a compatibility and B compatibility , and so that's a , that's a thing that means that a is it's designed that way .
Speaker 1B means you may be able to get to work , but we're not going to guarantee it . So , um , do you get all this in the dark web ? Is that how you figure it ?
Speaker 2out .
Speaker 3Yeah , actually , yeah , we go into the alley , out back , and the homeless people tell us so you know , I I would say that if we're starting from like current state , like right now , like you're going , you know , into a bike shop to either buy a complete bike or a drivetrain . I mean number one , the the biggest thing , even from my time starting at SRAM , is just like how much time , money , commitment has been invested in getting our quality you know , to near .
Speaker 3I mean , nobody can say perfect , but I mean it's , it's night and day from you know the kind of stuff that I supported from the warranty team you know six , seven years ago . Um , and on top of top of that , like as these products have developed , there has been the active you know effort to make them as serviceable , replaceable , customizable as possible . So , like leaving you know those kind of like backwards compatibility options , um , yeah , small individual replacement service parts and I think going forward for for anyone , that's that's ultimately what's going to make it kind of the best value .
Speaker 2Drivetrain , I mean , yeah , it's hard to argue when you can get a full xt group set for you know the cost of you know one xg cassette yeah , yeah , that's yeah , that's true , and that's kind of something we've talked about is like there's a at certain price points there's a winner and at certain price points there's , you know , not a winner , performance , you know . And so it depends on your motivation . And once you hit a certain like uh , we were talking on one uh podcast about uh , srams , you know , kind of there's a fairly good separation between each group as far as performance goes , and so as you move up , there's a good reason to move up , and with Shimano , there's sometimes not a good reason to move up , and so we see a lot more bikes outfitted at the lower end with Shimano stuff and a lot of bikes at the high end with SRAM stuff .
Speaker 3Yeah , that's . That's where it really stands out .
Speaker 2That's not . I don't think that's a conscious thing other than you know , when somebody's looking at a $10,000 bike , it's very competitive and a lot of them just want wireless and they want transmission . You know it becomes the clear winner . But when somebody is looking at a $3,000 bike , they kind , they kind of want dior . You know , if they're going to make a compromise between like a dior and like an sx or something is shram a public company uh , no , no still totally private .
Speaker 1Okay , that explains why I can't find the third quarter performance . I was gonna start asking a bunch of questions about revenue and profit and what percentage of r&d is is of revenue , but you can't tell me that's I mean , yeah , he's just , he's like the lead stoke guy .
Speaker 3Yeah , exactly .
Speaker 2He's not the accountant I'm all vibes , not numbers .
Speaker 1Yeah , but the reason I was asking is is you're saying hey , listen , we've invested significantly ? In all the things that you talked about , right , small parts , maintainability , reverse compatibility , all that kind of stuff to make it easier for the user to use your products , right ? Um , I was just curious at like , what percentage of your revenue are you actually investing to do that ? Oh , that I don't know .
Speaker 3Yeah , I don't know offhand , but I you know . I do know for certain that you know SRAM has been very smart to bring in a lot of very smart people as we've grown , so that we don't you know , make the kind of mistakes that a growing company often does .
Speaker 3So , yeah , I mean , obviously the pandemic was unprecedented times for every bike manufacturer , but it meant that we really capitalized on that . And you know , take that huge boom , and I know that a lot of that basically goes right back into , uh , our , our manufacturing . R and D , I mean engineering and manufacturing , are a hundred percent the thing .
Speaker 1So not hookers and blow . Maybe in the old days you guys were cool .
Speaker 2Maybe , in the old days , that was the inner bike days . Yeah , I mean .
Speaker 3SRAM really did start with a very punk rock origin . Those guys were wild .
Speaker 1Well , they've done a good job at rebranding , because I do not see them as a punk rock brand . I just don't .
Speaker 2I remember back in the day we would have people that wanted American-made bikes . And so you always got the SRAM , grip Shift and SRAM derailleurs .
Speaker 3That had the American flagmade bikes . So you always got the SRAM grip shift and SRAM . Derailleurs it had the American flag on them .
Speaker 2Yeah , they actually had an American flag one , and so there was kind of this definite American-made . But they've just become so much more global since then and manufacturing for everybody has moved to wherever it's most efficient , you know , and rather than just in a place to be in a place .
Speaker 1You know , I've researched this extensively and I've concluded that it's better manufacturing in Taiwan than there is in the United States .
Speaker 2They've got the practice . If we had , 20 years .
Speaker 3You should see the facilities there . They're incredible .
Speaker 1We're going to go to the Taipei Bike Show next year .
Speaker 3Oh , nice , awesome . That's the goal .
Speaker 1Assuming that China doesn't take over
SRAM Facilities and Manufacturing Discussion
Speaker 1Taiwan .
Speaker 3I know , yeah , fingers crossed I might be visiting myself and I think late spring to the the SRAM facility , which .
Speaker 2I'm really excited about . I keep hearing about is pretty amazing .
Speaker 1Jimmy , can you get us into it if we go over there ? Yeah , absolutely Hell . Yeah , that would be cool .
Speaker 2So for sure we're going to have to start doing of stuff oh yeah , we can do that .
Speaker 1We just don't want to show us us no , as soon as we have like a 40 female demographic . As soon as they see our faces , dane , we'll just walk arm and arm and we'll wear gopro's chesties .
Speaker 2So they can't actually see us yeah , so and it's just , and we'll just hold handlebars in front of us as we walk through oh , here's some good trivia for you .
Speaker 3Uh , josh , how many people do you think sram employs ?
Speaker 1let's see . So I just heard on one of the bike strategists podcast which is outstanding , the one that I sent you something that surprised me , and I haven't independently verified that , nor would I , but would I be able to because SRAM is a private company , but I heard that SRAM and Shimano are the two biggest companies in the bike industry . That probably tracks yeah , so I'm going to guess 3,000 .
Speaker 3That's a pretty good guess , is it ? Mm-hmm , is it ? What do you think ?
Speaker 212 . 1,200 .
Speaker 3I think there's 12 . Oh , 1,200 . You're guessing 12,000 .
Speaker 2No , just 12 people .
Speaker 1Jimmy's 9% of the company is sitting right here we just talked to Outbound .
Speaker 2There's six people . I bound six people .
Speaker 3I had a funny interaction like that . When I asked a power sports shop that was bringing in some new e-bikes , like you know , they were just asking some stuff about tram . Um , and you know , coming from the power sports side , like these huge companies , like PR , mobility , is KTM , oh so gas gas . Yeah , you know all those you know that's like a $20,000 , or sorry , 20,000 employee corporation .
Speaker 1It sucks that they're going out of business , though .
Speaker 2I don't think it's the whole thing . I think it's a division . They're going out of business .
Speaker 1The whole thing . I'll send you some articles . Oh shit , We'll get to that later .
Speaker 3But just like the reference point of the bike industry , they're like , oh , you're the bike rep for this brand . They're like , oh well .
Speaker 1It's about 5,800 . Oh , that's not bad . That wasn't a good guess . That was 50% right . That's better than mine .
Speaker 3Like I said , most people either go like , yeah , 500 people , or like 12,000 .
Speaker 1Okay , so you're much bigger than I realized .
Speaker 3Yeah , so I mean about 3,000 of that is Taiwan alone .
Speaker 2Wow , oh no shit , dude . They make a lot of stuff , so a lot of you guys have your own manufacturing .
Speaker 1SRAM does their own manufacturing .
Speaker 3SRAM owns its manufacturing facilities in Taiwan .
Speaker 1So that's the difference between some of the other companies .
Speaker 3Exactly Everyone that manufactures a SRAM component is a SRAM employee .
Speaker 1Do you guys manufacture for anyone else ? No , okay , want to .
Speaker 2You gotta ask . I mean , it's true . Well , I mean , is there , is there any brands that we don't know about , like uh , uh , I mean yeah , component wise .
Speaker 3I mean , it's just so neat . I mean that that's obviously a much more like viable option in the , you know , frames and OEM space . Yeah , for sure .
Speaker 2Yeah Well , this , you know this , this , this engineering studio was cool Cause it kind of compartmentalizes all the the jobs design . You know he's talking about faction bike studio now , yes yeah , it hasn't dropped yet , so hasn't .
Speaker 1Well , they will . By the time this comes out , they will okay , yeah , so jimmy doesn't know what we're talking about .
Speaker 2Yeah , so this , this is an engineering firm that kind of is behind the scenes , you know , and then you can go hire meridia or whoever you know , giant or whoever , to build your frame and then you can clv yeah , you can hire , you know . Uh , oh , geez geez , I just spaced , we Are One . We Are One in Canada . Yeah to do your hoops , and then you can hire you know so we Are One's making hoops for other people , yeah .
Speaker 2Industry 9 . And I think they're doing the birds , if I remember correctly . Yeah , don't quote me on that and don't get me in trouble , but I think they're doing the bird hoops and they're doing the i9 hoops well , I know what I'm doing tonight .
Speaker 1Right , the illusion of choice , whiskey and some googling , so um so and and that guy's cool because they're manufacturing them .
Speaker 2So and then you get somebody else , you know , uh like five dev , uh , to make your cranks , you know , and so you could build a whole bike just by hiring people to do it , you know I mean you could build a whole bike by hiring people in tucson to do it right here . I don't know , man , you know , like who's gonna make the cassette ?
Speaker 3uh , a nuco on 22nd and pantano really scent is probably one of the most impressive pieces of manufacturing .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean remember , I'm making I know , but I'm making a set would just cost twelve thousand dollars .
Speaker 1I'm making super precision , like multi tens of millions of dollar products that have so they could manufacture , yeah , you guys could easily bang it out .
Speaker 3Raytheon could make the whole thing yeah .
Speaker 1Right , but we wouldn't do that . But I'm saying from the supply base in Tucson I could , I could sort . We should do that .
Speaker 3And the bike would only cost the government a hundred thousand dollars .
Speaker 1Dude are you kidding me Like a hundred million dollars , Dude ? Are you kidding me Like ?
Speaker 2$100 million we're talking about government contract . Toilet is a million .
Speaker 1One of the federal acquisition regulations says that every piece of metal in a defense product has to have been smelted in the United States . Yes , do you know how fucking hard it is to find a screw and prove that it was smelted .
Speaker 2You're paying like $8 for a screw . I know it's impossible . I don't understand that . Do they do ? Yeah , it's about product .
Speaker 1I mean it's good intentions about protecting the industrial base . We want to have the capability United States to do that . And so they're spending their money in a way that's and it's a good idea but in practice it makes it impossible , and that's why you've Toilet was like a $100,000 toilet or something like that . Yeah . I don't know , we don't make toilets . I'm glad bikes aren't like that .
Speaker 3That's Tram's next product . Yeah , toilets .
Speaker 1All right , so keep selling me man . Yeah , what else ? What else ? Why should I switch ? Why should I not buy that sweet Pivot Firebird in extra large on sale over there with full XTR before I leave tonight , Cause I'm seriously thinking about it ?
Speaker 3Well , you know there is the whole aspect of like having you know the kind of holistic group set on your bike of a fully SRAM to rock shocks zip is that you know they're all sharing very similar design language , like engineering language , that they're all pretty similar to work on .
Speaker 2Um , you know , share batteries for instance yeah , I do like that .
Speaker 3Yeah , Versus , you know right now , um , you know you can have a fully wireless , you know , flight attendant bike . Uh , you know that you can interchange the batteries with the drive train . Meanwhile , if you want to have the same kind of setup from our competitors , you know you've got internal di2 batteries , tubes , a fox neo battery now , yes , and you know you have .
Speaker 2Or the old fox live stuff which is a different battery than that one which is their dropper I think the neo shares the dropper yes uh , the shock .
Speaker 2They're learning so yeah , that's my biggest thing with uh shimano . That I always tell josh is like they . They just wait a long time to do stuff and then they do a good job . Realistically they do a good job . They're just way behind everybody , like their drive they're . I've been studying up on uh e-bikes lately , yeah , and their drive system is just getting beaten like you wouldn't believe . Like left and right , people are just bailing on their drive system and I don't know when they're gonna have a new one come at the oe level .
Speaker 3You mean just like yeah , I mean bosch is taking that bosch is kicking everyone's butt , yeah , and and .
Speaker 2And . I don't think it's because bosch is cheaper , you know , I think it's just because shimano's just not really come out with anything very new other than you know . Maybe a software update , software update , you know , or something like that .
Speaker 3That's , that's , you know , the con . The big contrast between the two Shimano is the , you know , tried and true Leviathan of manufacturing and design . They can bring something to market in mass , produce it and have it be really good Um whereas , you know , we move a little faster and significantly faster yeah . Yeah .
Speaker 2And that's , and that comes with growing pains Like .
Speaker 3honestly , you know I think SRAM does get some some grief for that sometimes of , uh , you know , to the consumer perspective it can be . You know it can feel like you know a product release that isn't fully ready yet and you know that's kind of the question of , well , would you rather have it 90% of the way done and use it right now and , you know , fix it when any potential problem arises , or wait five years for it to be perfect ?
Speaker 2Yeah , well , and that's , and that's kind of what it is , is it's ?
Speaker 2I don't even think they know it's 90% , they think it's a hundred , but it just hasn't gone through every possible scenario Exactly , yeah , or something pops up , so like up . So like I was going to ask you , I got a question for you uh , what do you think is the product that tram has made in the last five years ? We could do that to 10 years . Uh , five years , uh , then years opens up is the worst one , that you don't want to hear about anymore , and the best one that you can't shut up about .
Speaker 3These are great . Yeah , these are great . So like if it's opened up to 10 years , I mean it's obviously
SRAM Brake Name Change and Issues
Speaker 310 years .
Speaker 2It's avid elixir , yeah , and that that haunted us .
Speaker 3Yeah , haunted us for a long time , yeah .
Speaker 2Well , you changed the name . Yeah , the brakes are no longer called avid , so we were just talking about that .
Speaker 1How is that ? Why the name was ?
Speaker 2rebranded . One of the reasons . It's one of the reasons to just get rid of that , the association , that stigma , yeah .
Speaker 3Yeah , For for anyone listening that might not have suffered through the avid elixir bleed process , the elixir has been .
Speaker 2The juices were bad . It's funny Cause the so okay , here's my perspective as somebody who's not working for SRAM . So , and as long as I've been doing this , there was a problem with the Juicies . The Juicy brakes had an issue where the main master cylinder pistons would kind of swell and get stuck inside the brake lever and they would get a sticky piston and it was basically not move and it would kind of keep your brakes on and then you couldn't bleed them . You had to pull them apart and rebuild them .
Speaker 2So they redesigned the brake and they came up with this amazing design of a cone kind of style or taper bore um piston yeah that would get rid of this problem yeah and they call it an elixir and they were like this is this is going to change your life , this is the best brake ever .
Speaker 2And then there was another problem . So I would say , yeah , those two like . Ironically , I feel like one of the worst things that's happened is after the Elixirs . They came out with guides , which I loved and I still rock them on my bikes , but they went back to the same piston as the Juicies and they ran into the same problem because , as far as I know and tell me if I'm wrong uh , on the the , on the um guide break , there's only one part that they don't make . Is that ?
Speaker 1right , got us , yeah , yeah , it's the one part that the problem part is the one they don't make the one problem , yeah , and I think it's absorbing fluid , I think it swells .
Speaker 2I've heard mixed reviews on what causes it , but I know how to fix it .
Speaker 3From what I understood . Is that so ? Yes , Josh , like I mentioned earlier , we do produce essentially every single SRAM component . Dane is right . Yes , the one subcomponent that we did not manufacture in-house . In those breaks Was the master piston for guides . They were purchased from vendors in nearby town . Everything gets made on the same mic .
Speaker 2It's just a weird material that they wouldn't normally .
Speaker 3No , so it's the same material . It's the same delrin material . From what I understood , is that basically just the starting dimension was slightly out of spec , meaning when it got to its upper ranges of thermal expansion then it was out of spec . Yeah , so had it been , you know , at 100 , the right spec that we had requested . It was designed to ideally accommodate for that kind of expansion . But yeah , obviously , if you're starting out at an overall bigger resting diameter , when that expands past that , then yeah , so all you had to do is put an ice cube on it to get it to work .
Speaker 1That's true .
Speaker 2Ironic . Yes , that actually is true .
Speaker 1I just made that straight up . No , I made that up , but it makes sense Genuinely .
Speaker 3I'll tell an antidote . This was when I was working at the pros , closet actually 2016 . So guys were like fresh out , I was a longtime Shimano rider , you know kind of just because like it's what was in bike shops , it's what would work .
Speaker 2They go through cycles too .
Speaker 3Well , I mean , like the , the xt group of of 2016 , like the 11 speed what gen was that like ?
Speaker 2uh , shit , I don't know because they have numbers and so it's like I don't even know if they were by strand because it's easier to keep track of all the product tiers . And names there is that there's so many 81 , 30 , 81 , 20 yeah , yeah 8 000 . Were they at 800 ? I'm not sure .
Speaker 3Yeah , it was whatever preceded the 8000 group , where it got like yeah , the glossy finish , you know with the silver brakes .
Speaker 3Yep , yep , yep . I lost it after those . So , yeah , that's what I rode for a long time and yeah , I was working at the Pro's Closet in Boulder summer of 2016 . I bought my first all SRAM bike um , sram GX . Um , that was the year that Eagle came out . Uh , so sorry , not GX . Um , it was XO , cause it was just that at launch . Uh , xo Eagle . Um , you know , pike Monarch , reverb um and guide RSC brakes . I was like sick , my first full SRAM sweep and a first ride that we go out like little little company launch ride . Go to left hand canyon it's middle of the summer , so it is pretty hot . Bike's been on the back of the car on the drive there and , uh , you know , climb up you know , not using the brakes , then no problem .
Speaker 3Yeah , do the 1200 foot ass kicker of left hand canyon or whatever it is . And uh yeah , immediately when I start the descent , the first time I pull my brake levers . They just you know stay in .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean .
Speaker 3I come to a stop and then my brake levers will not release . I can't even push my bike , the wheels won't spin . Yeah , oh , no yeah , the failure mode of these brakes being full brake on makes it for ?
Speaker 3yeah , so I carry my bike on my shoulder down to the Creek crossing that we're at and dip it in the Creek and flip my bike upside down so the lever bodies sit in the cool running water for about , you know , five minutes or so and I got through the rest of the ride . Um , got back to work after that and immediately took the guides off and put those XTs back on . Yeah , and then the very next summer was when I was then working at sram , uh and then covering and replacing the uh the guide levers you were the guy that everybody talked to on the phone yeah and you're like here's some new ones yeah exactly I got we .
Speaker 2We would get a box of them , uh , just to change out for people .
Speaker 1So there was no delay yeah because , just for a warranty .
Speaker 2Yeah because one of the things that happened was SRAM recognized there was a problem and they just tried to fix it as fast as possible . But we saw it more in the desert , Just because of the heat .
Speaker 1It's just the heat .
Speaker 2But until we really knew what was going on , we would have somebody come in and be like , yeah , my brakes don't work . And we're like , great , we'd write them up at the register and get them a ticket and we'd roll it into the back and put it into the back until the next day when we work on it . And then the tech would get it and he's like what's wrong with the brakes ? They work great , because it had cooled off inside . And it took us a while before we realized what was going on , and then we started using a hairdryer to test them , and so then you could get the heat up inside the shop and see if they were sticking .
Speaker 1Oh , interesting . So did you guys have recourse against the supplier ?
Speaker 3You know . Actually I'm not really sure what happened there . That's probably some deep knowledge there .
Speaker 1Yeah , that is . I'm going to keep asking the deep knowledge questions . That can't help it .
Speaker 2Well , I'm just imagining there's like one lawyer that knows actually what happened . Yeah , yeah exactly .
Speaker 3I would definitely put my foot in my mouth , but I will say , like one of the really interesting like considerations of doing business in Taiwan is that you really cannot burn bridges like that , Even even if we , you know , had recourse with them .
Speaker 1like the relationships are more important . Exactly , it's such . It's such a dollars you'd get back .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's such a small pool over there , like I was saying , like everything basically gets manufactured in the same , like you know , square mile in this industrial section of um uh , taichung , um . So yeah , I mean sure you could go after them , but you know , ultimately they know everybody else that owns all the other factories and whatnot . And , like you know I mentioned , sram is in the unique position of owning most of its manufacturing , so we don't really have to worry about that as much . But you know , even just keeping face in in businesses is huge in Taiwan , china especially , like I mean yeah it's like it's , it's an honor culture .
Speaker 3So anything perceived as you know , a slight or offense like can can actually yeah , it can have big business implications . Like , um , do you guys know ? Um , uh , rodeo labs out in Denver Uh , they do these really cool . Like uh , bespoke gravel bikes Well , not really bespoke anymore , it's almost like production level . Um shout out Steve If he listens to this .
Speaker 1Yeah , Um but , send it to him , yeah , and he's got he's .
Speaker 3He's got a really good article about um , you know they , they do um their frame manufacturing overseas , um , and he had a really good blurb about , like you know , kind of just like hounding not like hounding , just like you know kind of prodding one of his like suppliers just like , hey , you kind of like left us , you know , hanging on this Um , like what , what can I do better to like in the future ? Like you know really pragmatic response to it . Uh , and it turned into , you know , basically this whole like kind of like you know , k-pop drama kind of story thing , like , where they , you know their response was like well , we're just never going to make frames for you again . He's like what ?
Speaker 1I just , I just need the four frames that are on order , yeah exactly yeah , and the story has a happy ending .
Speaker 2He , I think he reconciles with that vendor but he's just like wow , I've had customers like that that I . I kind of wish they'd send me a , an email that says hey man , uh , what did I do ?
Speaker 1All right , so , um , I'm going to take us on a little . We're going to come back to what he thinks the best product is Cause .
Speaker 2the next is to find out
RockShox Product Reviews and Insights
Speaker 2the best .
Speaker 1I'm using a Rock Shack product right now that I'm just fucking in love with , and so I'm going to break form .
Speaker 3I'm going to guess . Okay , guess , it's the Reverb Axis , nope .
Speaker 1Nope , take another guess . Nope , dane installed it in one of my products something that came out recently , the Charger 3 my products , something that came out recently , the charger 3.1 damper that's exactly it with buttercups as well .
Speaker 2Yeah , I told you , the buttercups are .
Speaker 1Oh my god , dude , I had a baseline zeb on my rock shot or on my rocky uh e-bike yeah uh , power play altitude , right , yeah , yeah , and uh , dane had me take it off to try another shock , which or another fork , which which was good .
Speaker 2Yeah , when it worked , I had some problems with it and uh , by the way , that's on my bike right now and I love it . Yeah , I'm sure you do .
Speaker 1It's completely . It's just because you're fat .
Speaker 2That's what it is . It's totally . It probably is . No , it's not . You something happened , something changed ? Yeah , because I just changed the settings . I even told the guys when you , when you see the guys next , you can ask them . So I was like what the hell did he do to this ?
Speaker 1you did it no , I didn't touch that . I'm not even gonna name the .
Speaker 2I think maddie did you get your ? Own recommendation set up on a trailhead no , uh , oh , this was , this , wasn't a rock shock product . The one we're bantering about is it doesn't matter different product .
Speaker 1We won't , we won't name it . So meanwhile I had that on my bike and I had this kind of baseline Zeb and I'm like and then I saw all the stuff about the 3.1 and I'm like , oh , and Dane's like dude and buttercups and I'm like , alright , dude , order it . So I had him install it on my . So I made my baseline Zeb an ultimate basically . Holy shit , an ultimate . Basically , yeah , holy shit , yeah , much different whole .
Speaker 2I'm like I'm selling , I'm selling everything and buying this one for all my books . Yeah , I just did another one . There's another lyric that's coming in and I'm doing the same thing oh my god , dude , just the , uh , the full 3.1 assembly .
Speaker 3Are you doing just the drop in into a charger three ? No , it doesn't have buttercups , so it's so you're doing the full assembly so help me out out with that Cause .
Speaker 2There is the . It's a lyric , but it's got a high speed and low speed charger . So I think it's a three . Oh , is that right ?
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 2And then but it doesn't have buttercups , so it's a select plus , and so you can't just stick buttercups on the end of that .
Speaker 3Uh , no , we don't have you full damper assembly and air spring assembly ?
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , so they were changing the travel already and I'm like I'll get you the buttercups and they're like okay , and I'm like , but it's only half the story .
Speaker 3Like it's only half the story and you're not going to get the whole benefit .
Speaker 2Yeah , and so I'm like I think you know , and cause he was asking me , he me on the rear shock , uh , it's a super deluxe , uh select about maybe putting it as an ultimate , and so that's one of the calls that I made to you guys about that new um , you can now take the rear shocks , the rock shocks and upgrade the damper , the reservoir , body , reservoir .
Speaker 2So these are the ones with a separate reservoir , and you can convert them into essentially ultimates um , which is much more cost effective than buying a new rear shock . So and that's really cool that that modulation is is something that I really push for , because , as a dealer , it allows me to stock one product and modify a bunch of different other products , which is really cool .
Speaker 1Well , I'll tell you what if you're a heavy dude on a heavy bike , which is what I'm , which is what that is yeah .
Speaker 2That setup is yeah , that .
Speaker 1Zeb with that . 3.1 in the buttercups is fucking awesome .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think I've said on this podcast a couple of times , the new uh rock shock stuff , the buttercups essentially you know , anything with buttercups is just such a game changer for them .
Speaker 2It's really moved them up so many places than they used to be and it's always been good product . But I've been a DVO fan because of the suppleness and now there's a diehard , like serious competitor to that that I am . Two of my bikes are RockShox now , so , and that's saying a lot , uh , now I'll tell you , the van has DVO on one side and RockShox on the other .
Speaker 1So I just depends on how I park it .
Speaker 2So all right , so I just depends on how I park it .
Speaker 1So all right , so I just took it . I just had to break form and give you guys some kudos on something I'm really enjoying . So , from your perspective , what's the most popular ?
Speaker 3product . What can't you shut up about ? I guess a quick trivia on buttercups . You know where the inspiration for that technology came from .
Speaker 2Engine mounts no . I mean it's an engine mount , yeah , yeah . So basically , so don't know .
Speaker 3Uh , but specifically a chainsaw grips .
Speaker 2No way , oh wow , no shit .
Speaker 3Uh , as I've heard it um some rock shocks . Uh product folk were um . You know there's there's also an office up in uh Vancouver and Columbia another technical support office there . Uh and also there's some , uh , some brand folks that live out there and they're really obviously involved in the community and whatnot . Um , but yeah , like talking to some like big time , you know timber folks , loggers , yeah , trail builders .
Speaker 3you know the people that you run into on the Seymour mountain , but uh yeah you know , someone saw it like oh you know , they're basically isolating the grip from the rest of the chainsaw body with this kind of you know , elastomer plastic or rubber .
Speaker 2Yeah , we applied that to lower legs . Yeah , so basically the lowers are mounted to one piece and the damper and the air shaft are mounted to another and the air shaft are mounted to another and there's basically a . You know it's not going to come apart , but there's basically rubber bumpers on either side , so that you get this extra level of suppleness that comes from that .
Speaker 3Yeah , what they're really tailored for , too , is like the high-frequency kind of vibration of a fork . You know , it's not like a shock absorber . Like it still translates a lot of the force that you get through yep , an axle and lower legs yeah it's specifically that kind of like really high frequency stuff that just like contributes to fatigue over a long day .
Speaker 1It's worth noting that I'm running rev grips on that bike as well I got like double , double damping or something triple damping .
Speaker 2I want to try those out just to see that , plus some fast flex bars ?
Speaker 3I don't have any . Is that the ones with the pivot in them ? Yeah , you won't even be able to feel the trail yeah , it's , they're like suspended bars , yeah I'm sure there's a max weight limit on those things .
Speaker 2I don't know , man downhillers use them , so I think you could , oh , maybe but yeah , that's uh favorite products , best products um yeah , most most , most , yeah , like what you can't stop talking about or couldn't Like really , like it doesn't have to be current , you don't have to go with just current . He's going to say transmission . Well , that's why I'm saying I'm just not . I don't want to corral you into the latest and greatest because that's your job all the time , but what is it that you think made ?
Speaker 3Well , I'll close out on guides because like guide was also , you know , one of the toughest moments in , yeah , you know , sram's recent history . Yeah , and , and that was like I said , you know , uh , I had come from being a shimano break guy for a long time , um , and then I , I mean the guide break is what made me finally appreciate our breaks and like kind of the difference in and feel and approach to just you know , I'm glad you care .
Speaker 1I'm glad you clarified because I didn't realize that the guides actually fixed the juicy elixir problems .
Speaker 2Guides still have a problem . They still used to have a problem , but now that it's fixed , it was basically a manufacturing flaw , you know , or tolerance issue .
Speaker 3On one piece . On one piece . The rest of the brake was solid .
Speaker 1But that's not on anything new that we can buy now . Yeah , the rest of the brake was solid , but that's not anything new that we can buy now .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's not old stuff . No , even the new G2s and stuff like that .
Speaker 3Yeah , all of our current dot brakes still basically follow the same design of the guide , so the design was solid . It was a great brake , just unfortunately plagued by that one , just the manufacturing .
Speaker 1It was bad luck . I just want to make sure for our listeners to understand that , that that that manufacturing issue has been resolved .
Speaker 3Yes , as of I mean 2018
SRAM Brake Tolerance and Fixes
Speaker 3. And to give you a clue ?
Speaker 2I fixed those . I have so many bikes with guides on them from that era and I would fix them because what Jimmy was saying is the tolerance of that piston was out and when it would heat up it would bind inside . It would basically be taller than the seals .
Speaker 1So were you grinding them down or something ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I put them on a lathe and I take them down and I know he's shaking his head like god damn it . Why are you doing that ? But I'm I'm running those brakes today . They're on my downhill bike . I run guides on my downhill bike and they are great brakes .
Speaker 3Like I couldn't give them up the only disclaimer there for the average joe is that yeah if you run it down too much , then you have not enough diameter and then you're gonna yeah , to have great bite paths . Yeah , but Dane's a professional .
Speaker 2Don't do what Dane does . I am a professional .
Speaker 3Do as he says , not as he does .
Speaker 2Yes , I am a professional and honestly the right way . So , remember , I was a team mechanic , so this is a fix that we would do on a Friday before a race on Saturday . The real fix is you can just get the new pistons .
Speaker 3Or the real fix is you can just get the new pistons or a new lever assembly . That's what we eventually got to just swap . It's so easy to swap a lever assembly on SRAM brakes .
Speaker 2They would send us boxes of levers because it's literally , you just basically put a new , you know ? Crush olive and barb on and then pop it on and do a quick bleed . You didn't even have to do a full bleed , honestly , wow . And then it was done and so it was super easy and that's how they helped people , you know , through that problem . But we had some friday race on saturday issues and we came up with a fix and I had I have two or three sets of those brakes . They're still rocking and they're great .
Speaker 2So , um , the new pistons if you get the rebuild kits are intolerance yeah , so we haven't had any problems with any of the new stuff within the tolerance yeah , it's , it's been within the tolerance not intolerant .
Speaker 1They're totally intolerant , but uh yeah resolved and contained for for many years now .
Speaker 3So yeah , yeah , but uh , yeah , I mean that doubles as kind of like one of the like quote-unquote worst and best products .
Speaker 2Um , because , yeah , like I said , that was like I mean caused a lot of problem but function when they were working great . They were better than pretty much on them everything on the market .
Speaker 3And that's , and that's what I kind of had to commit to , to like learning myself , cause I mean , I'll be honest that first summer , taking all those calls , I was like I should just quit this job . I mean that's gotta be rough .
Speaker 1I mean every day it was nearly a hundred phone calls of yeah , I've got these guides and they don't work and I'm just like , I'm so sorry You're like you've got a guide with a problem . Press three , that's how it .
Speaker 3That's how it ran for for a while . But I mean just being firsthand , like you know , obviously there were some very upset people , and for good reason , but like for the most part , like when we finally got , you know , the fix rolling and everybody could , you know , communicate . It , like you know , went a long way when shops were like , hey , you know , this , that was yeah we know what's going on .
Speaker 2Just how do we fix it ? Yeah , so yeah .
Speaker 2And that you know that kind of shaped my view of both the break and SR sram yeah well , you know , yeah , we're not perfect , but there's something about taking care of your , your customers yeah , it's , it's important and the bike industry has kind of has a reputation of kind of testing on the customers some some companies are better than others , for sure . I mean . I remember canondales in the back in the day . They'd be like oh , that's not working , we're just going to change it and like and that was a thing .
Speaker 3I mean , we're just such a small industry . Like we don't always have the resources to . Yeah , like like you said before , it's not like anybody is deliberately trying to release a product that isn't done . It's just that they just tested as much as we can within one finite window , to everything we can imagine . And then there's the real world .
Speaker 2Oh , by the way , josh , the real world . Oh , by the way , josh , and I discussed this on the last podcast which will come out after we record this .
Speaker 1One can't keep it straight .
Speaker 2I need to chart out of our this is like two episodes ago listeners but uh , we are open to uh creating and hosting a a uh research and development uh facility here in tucson , help us break stuff . Yes , so not only break stuff , but um honestly , that's that
SRAM Reverbaxis Product Discussion
Speaker 2you know . Gm has a desert proving ground for that reason , and so I do see some product releases by SRAM out in the desert here .
Speaker 1Yeah . And you'll see them . There's a few testers . We can definitely test pedal strikes here .
Speaker 2Oh my God , yes , yeah , and heat and extreme heat .
Speaker 3Yeah , oh my God Guys , I forgot one of our brands .
Speaker 1Oh Jesus , What'd you forget ? Time Pedals .
Speaker 2Oh Time Pedals , oh wow .
Speaker 1Look at that .
Speaker 3Fired .
Speaker 2I was just thinking about that , and those are my favorite pedals .
Speaker 3I rode time even before I worked at SRAM .
Speaker 1I want to cut this out and paste it right when you were listing all the brands yeah , there you go , he won't do that . I probably will , just because you said , I won't .
Speaker 3But yeah , I would say the product that I can't shut up about and it's going to make me sound like such a shill because it is probably the most premium product we make . It's the Reverbaxis . Oh yes , really , I will never go back to a cabled dropper . I mean just install service alone . And just like the immediate feel of a wireless remote to a cable . I'm so spoiled when I do ride a mechanical dropper lever . I'm like my thumb . I know so much effort .
Speaker 2I feel like you should have changed the name of it .
Speaker 3You just reverb in general yeah .
Speaker 2When that wireless came out , they should have called it a different name .
Speaker 3Well , you know , the thing is it is a reverb .
Speaker 2I understand that but here's why .
Speaker 2There's a again . Back when droppers came out , there was only one good one and it was the reverb , and every bike had it . So there was a billion of them out there and they had some failures , you know , and they had some design problems that they went through . Another tough one , and they also use like a hydraulic actuator instead of a cable and all of those stigmas are stuck to it and it is not that product anymore . It is a totally different product and it performs so much better than what people think the reverb name has Does that make sense .
Speaker 3I mean you definitely have a point . I mean that is the reason that we ultimately moved away from the Avid branding . That's why the guide naming ?
Speaker 1eventually changed to G2 . Yep , yeah .
Speaker 3Again , like not the only reason why , but like those are definitely .
Speaker 2It has a side effect of getting rid of some of the stigma .
Speaker 3Yeah , and Reverb again . That was another product that had some iffy reception early on .
Speaker 2Bumpy road of research and development . And it's crazy because , again , I've been around and using all these products during this and back when reverbs were around , there was nobody making a good dropper . I mean , it was the best smoothest , that was 2010 .
Speaker 3Yeah , that's when the first reverb came .
Speaker 2I have a great my one of my vintage products on the wall is going to be a gravity dropper . You know creaky mess of a dropper with a pin .
Speaker 3And that was like at the same time era .
Speaker 2It was the same time as the reverb , and the reverb was so much better .
Speaker 3But it was expensive .
Speaker 2Yeah , but there has been a period of time where reverb didn't really change too much . They got rid of some of the problems kind of late , and so everybody else came out with pretty good working stuff .
Speaker 3Yeah so .
Speaker 1I haven't tried a reverb yet , because I can't afford it .
Speaker 2Well , especially the access . That is the complicating factor .
Speaker 1So you guys do anything about that . Do we have anything to look forward to ?
Speaker 3Well , I mean the current reverb axis is coming up on nearly five years old , so I mean product what's the product life cycle at tram ?
Speaker 2do they have like a set one , or is it just kind of go ?
Speaker 3it's not set um . I I would say you know , like a lot of the bike . Well , I guess more on the component side , like I you know , oem frame manufacturers run on like a one to two year cycle yeah , I of just color changes and stuff , I feel like hard parts , components are usually closer to three to
SRAM Reverb Axis Benefits and Fixes
Speaker 3five year cycle .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , you know , unless you're Shimano , and then it's , it's measured in decades . Yeah Right , unless it's Shimano , saint and then , it's measured in um , yeah , centuries .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's the century Saint , yeah .
Speaker 1The different , the century saint , yeah , the different monarchies that it outlasted . Oh my god , bashar asad is gone . Yeah , he's gone , they're still the saint did outlast the syrian regime . Oh my god this is now a politics podcast no , no , no politics nope
Speaker 3but yeah , I mean , if , if that , you know , tells you anything , the writing's kind of on the wall there . We're definitely butting up against that five-year window . Um , but yeah , the reverb axis has been a really solid product and you know it is just , it is that b1 generation reverb , just essentially eliminating that hydraulic remote , which was the issue for again another thing that I intimately supported and troubleshot .
Speaker 2It's a C1 , right , because it's got the purge valve .
Speaker 3No , so it is the B1 reverb . It just had the vent valve added as well , so the C1 is actually a completely different design from the reverb axis .
Speaker 2I mean , I know my kits are different , but I mean they all look roughly the same in size .
Speaker 1So what would it cost me to get into ?
Speaker 2a Reverb Access MSRP right now $800 ?
Speaker 3$850 ? Yes , it's dropped down from $899 to , I think , $699 .
Speaker 2It's $699 now because it doesn't come with a remote .
Speaker 3Yes , it's $699 MSRP for post alone , and then you have to pair it with your Access Control of Choice .
Speaker 2Yes , and so the key is that there's different remotes and ways to pair it , because they now have a gravel access dropper , uh , so you can get a gravel version . So you know you don't want it to come with a lever .
Speaker 3That you don't need that , you don't need yeah , uh , so they split it up so yeah , you can operate a reverb access post with any access so is it like 100 bucks for the controller ?
Speaker 1uh , it's 150 for a pod basic , so 850 to get into a reverb , yeah and you can .
Speaker 2So here's the crazy thing is you can get like uh , the what is it ? Access to button pod instead of the rock shock reverb lever , which is like a one button , and then you can assign buttons on the access app , which we haven't talked about , which we need to talk about . Yeah , um , just in general , all of the access stuff you know , because we have we have jimmy here and we need to talk about that stuff um , but the uh , um , we're both . All of us are looking at the clock right now going .
Speaker 3It's been an hour .
Speaker 2We're gonna have to do two of these you know , just to get it all in , but . But basically they split it up because you could have it on a road bike and it may have a built-in lever in your shifter , or you could have it on a mountain bike with one type of lever or a mountain bike with another lever . You can run two by .
Speaker 3Uh , yeah , I mean , yeah , we're talking about this , just like you know , previously , with mechanical drivetrains , like there were still a lot of people interested in running a mix of road levers with mountain , yeah , drivetrain , yep , and basically , what axis does I mean ? This is another point towards you , josh is eliminate that consideration of oh , is this going to work with this shifter ?
Speaker 1yeah every axis doesn't have to worry about the pull ratio .
Speaker 3Exactly , it's a button , yeah and it does whatever I mean . So even just look at , uh , you know 13 speed yeah , we had explore release earlier in august . That's the same shifter we don't need any more buttons . We don't need any more pauls .
Speaker 2The shifter does as many shifts as the derailleur does so you can change from 12 to 13 by just by pairing to the cassette and derailleur , and that's it because all all the buttons doing is sending a signal to the thing , whether it it's derailleur or dropper and says do your thing .
Speaker 1Yep , exactly it doesn't care about pull ratios or any of that stuff .
Speaker 2Exactly , yeah , which is really nice . I always say it's a language , so you just assign the language , and then it speaks Greek to the front derailleur , and it speaks French to the rear derailleur , and then that way they don't communicate , they don't miss communicate .
Speaker 1Je ne parle pas français , yeah yeah .
Speaker 2And if you want to switch them ? You just make one button speak French and the other buttons speak Greek .
Speaker 1That's awesome , just like my girlfriends .
Speaker 3Yep , exactly it could be a rap lyric , just kidding , but yeah , to that same point . Josh , like that's another thing I think in our corner is just like the whole access ecosystem means that you can basically take any of our access enabled components and they will work together .
Speaker 2yeah that's cool , it's it . And I gotta tell you from the you know our shop experience . The reverb owners are probably the the happiest zealots yeah , they really love that post , and it's .
Speaker 2I have one issue when I repair them that Troy taught me to fix too , and since he taught me that , we fix them in-house , which is great , so when they need service , there's no issues . Not a common problem , just something that comes up occasionally . It's actually really common and it's a pain in the ass , but it happens to be because of the vent valve . What is the problem ?
Speaker 1What are the users experience ?
Speaker 2so when , when you have these posts , you may have some air migrate onto the other side of the the piston and enter the oil , which causes , like a spring effect or a suspensioning is what we call it . Okay , um , there's a vent valve that helps purge that air uh out and basically moves it around . But you have kind of a certain amount of times that you can do this and sometimes the , the ifp , which is inside the post , gets stuck up near the top way out of the way where you can't get it out , and when we have to pull that out , they have to . A pretty retarded way of pulling it out that works , uh , but you use a bunch of zip ties it's kind of dumb uh , it's in the service manual it's totally .
Speaker 2You're like 35 zip ties and you just shove them in there . It's the weirdest thing .
Speaker 1It is so funny but um when it's like how I get grips on . It's weird .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's so weird um , but it's , he's right , it's . It's like you'll see a picture of some guy stuffing a bunch of zip ties in the reaver but , um , the ifp can get stuck so far up there that the zip ties won't get under it to pull it out . Because what they're trying to do is you're pulling out a very sensitive piece of rubber that gets kind of stuck , you know , because it's rubber and you're trying not to scratch the inside , because if a scratch happens , it can bypass air or oil past , and so you have to be careful . One of the reasons that people bring reverbs here to get them serviced is because it's not a super easy , user-friendly .
Speaker 3It is probably the most service-intensive component .
Speaker 2Yeah and so , but that one problem , the first couple that I ran into . I had no idea what to do and I had to send them to RockShox . And you know RockShox will take care of people and they're awesome . But it's a time , no matter what , even if you're the fastest , if you , even if you're not , a two days just shipping just shipping .
Speaker 2Time is like a week basically at least yeah , and then you have in in time and , and we're known for being couple day turnaround , and so , um , troy , uh , lafferty , laffey , yeah , at Colorado Springs , awesome Loves Land Cruisers . Yep , no , not Land Cruisers .
Speaker 3He's going to be mad . Land Rovers , land Rovers . Yeah , he'll be so mad that I said that .
Speaker 2He loves Land Rovers . He taught me a trick to get them out , and man , it works awesome this is the spoke . Yep , yep , yeah , and so now we can replace the IFP and service it and get it running . I just did one a couple of days ago , so Josh , that's .
Speaker 3That's the last thing I'll add here . Sram versus Shimano .
Speaker 2Yes , yeah .
Speaker 3Who at Shimano can you call you ?
Speaker 2know . I will tell you that at Shimano we do have good tech guys and usually it's trying to have a great tech . They do , they do and they do a great job , and usually it's compatibilities that we're trying to figure out with them . But they just recently started letting us service a little bit of their brakes Not a whole lot , they have . Their systems are kind of Do their brakes actually need service ?
Speaker 1Yes .
Speaker 2Contrary to rider belief . Yeah , yeah , so and so there's a bunch of issues that will come up that aren't serviceable . They do a good job , but nobody has the kind of ability for us to work on this product in the shop like SRAM , and nobody supports the bike shop as much as SRAM . I don't want to disparage Shimano because they do a good job . They really do . If I call my rep .
Speaker 3They just have a different approach .
Speaker 2Yeah , some of their ecosystems are just closed and they're not really up for repair . Like you don't take apart a shimano shifter , like you don't , you know it's gonna not go back together . So it won't , and we've known that for years . And there's mechanics that we'll try and there's mechanics that will be meticulous enough to maybe get it back together at a business sense .
Speaker 1You know , I think I've taken apart both SRAM and Shimano and I've had much better success getting the SRAM .
Speaker 2Yeah , there's like seven parts in a SRAM and and , and they make them serviceable and they tell you that they're serviceable . You don't have to go on the dark web to find out about it and yeah , so there's . There's a lot more serviceability in the SRAM stuff that's kind of built in . Uh , and I know Chris Manny , I can shout out , manny . I can hear him in my ear going because you don't need to .
Speaker 2You know like I could totally hear Chris Manny , like I know what he'd say . You know , but when you're a mechanic , you you don't want to hear , uh , that's just send that back .
Speaker 1You know , you don't want to hear that you want to fix it like mechanics love to fix stuff and it's it takes away our love when we have to send something back so this is this has been worth it , because the serviceability thing was never something like when you and I talked about it . We didn't bring that up yeah just didn't come to the conversation and I definitely can relate to that yeah like personal personally relate to , so that's interesting .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's cool stuff , so we got to do another episode with him . I think so , because we didn't talk about we didn't talk about flight attendants , we didn't talk about the mavens . We didn't
SRAM Braking System Tips and Preferences
Speaker 2talk about mavens . Can I ask a maven question ? Absolutely .
Speaker 1Okay , so you switched to mineral oil ? Yes , are we going in future and other SRAM breaking products ?
Speaker 3We're always working on new stuff .
Speaker 1That's a good answer .
Speaker 3Thank you , Captain . Obvious , that's a good non-answer . He's like I don't know .
Speaker 1I mean you think we made a specific fluid for just one break ? Yeah , that would be stupid .
Speaker 2All right . You heard it here first Mineral oil coming on all future SRAM breaks . Is that all you want to know about the mavens ? That's it . You're like like one of the biggest changes in their brake system ever and you're like mineral oil , using mineral oil it's not the reason they have the db8s , by the way huh , they have the db8s , our mineral tool yeah , those came out a while before .
Speaker 1Yeah , oh shit , I didn't know that and they're inexpensive .
Speaker 2You should be on them .
Speaker 3I will preach my point on other products I can't stop talking about , and it is Mavens , because it is just on my personal bike and I loved codes . I had no issues with codes . After learning and loving Mavens , I can't go back between bikes .
Speaker 2I got to tell you not between bikes . I gotta tell you , you know , not to keep dragging this out , because our listeners I think our listeners would want to know this , because this is something that comes up in the shop and I gotta ask you about it because I have a theory brakes are always a very , very touchy subject too . Yeah , like , yeah , they kind of get stopped pun intended .
Speaker 2Yes , yeah , I couldn't come anyway , so , uh , so we're experiencing a lot of bikes coming with codes and customers are saying things like they don't stop . I can't stop , and it is blowing my mind because the code is one of the more powerful brakes on the market and I'm trying to figure out what's going on . What is causing that reaction , and is there a level of code that is less than what I'm used to ?
Speaker 1I mean , they come from Shimano , where that's got that on off .
Speaker 2So that's my theory , my theory . Here's my theory , not to to prompt you into an answer , but cause I really want to know if there's something other than this . But Shimano does have like an on off but it's like a light switch versus a dimmer . And then when you pull a Shimano , as you pull , you don't get any more power . It's pretty much it's on off .
Speaker 3Yeah , whereas most of a SRAM brake power comes towards the end of the lever shift .
Speaker 2Yeah , but you have to use a lot more finger power , which I'm used to as a downhiller . I'm pulling hard . You're great with finger power . Yeah , I can finger power like you wouldn't believe . I power through my fingering like you wouldn't believe , but I don't know . Oh my God .
Speaker 3I thought that was good .
Speaker 2Oh my God , I was trying to get the word bang in there , but it didn't work .
Speaker 1That's probably good that you didn't .
Speaker 2But , like I said earlier , I'm a light breaker . I use guides on my downhill bike , I use two piston on my trail bikes because I'm trying to keep them light . I don't use a lot of brake , I don't brake hard , and so so my experience is like you don't need all of this brake . Why ? How would a code not give you enough brake ? So that , have you heard that ?
Speaker 1And can you attribute it to anything ?
Speaker 3Yeah , I would . I would say the number one thing when people say my brakes don't stop is one .
Speaker 1They're usually poorly bedded . This is , this is my psa bed your brakes and people . They'll never work .
Speaker 3Like what is bedding your brakes mean jimmy bedding your brakes is the process of actually transferring your brake pad material to the braking surface of the rotor .
Speaker 1So your road . Isam's recommended process for bedding your brakes 50 repetition 50 .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1For how long for each repetition ?
Speaker 3So basically a repetition would consist of getting your bike up to about just like trail speed and coming to a slow , gradual and not complete stop , kind of a rolling stop 50 .
Speaker 1I've always done 10 .
Speaker 3Dude . Even 50 is arguably not enough .
Speaker 3And a lot of people do rely on . Well , I'll bet it on the trail , I'll get them nice and hot on my local segment . Yeah , and then beyond that too is just also matching your pad material and rotors for your ride type . I feel like there's been a lot of hype around you know , specifically like steel-centered compounds . Just , you know , trying to beef up brakes in the biggest way you can and it's not always the best option for your ride . Lookout like , especially here like an organic pad will always stay just ambient and warm enough and will not encounter enough moisture to you know where , versus a steel pad , um , you know , really performs at its best when it's at a higher temperature , which you're not really ever getting your brakes to around a lot of the local riding here .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 3And are made to withstand yeah moisture and debris and stuff Again , stuff that you don't really encounter as much in the desert .
Speaker 2I love it when I do shit and don't even know I'm doing it right , because I'm more of an organic pad , mainly for quiet .
Speaker 3Yeah , I want quiet .
Speaker 2Yeah , doing it right , because , uh , I'm more of an organic pad , mainly for quiet , yeah , quiet , yeah me too . And then , um , metal pads on my downhill bike because I don't want them worn out by the first run for a bike park bike .
Speaker 3Yeah , absolutely , when you're doing laps and you know you could be doing in the rain yeah yeah , and then beyond that too , like well , I mean , there's a lot to be said too about just brake lever setup too , and our brakes definitely favor a certain kind of setup , usually pretty far inboard yeah , on the on the bars so pulling at the very end of them yes , pulling at the very tip of the lever blade do you think ?
Speaker 2have you guys done any studies on how much lever ? Because , uh , there's a competitor that I ride also .
Speaker 2That is in the middle between the two yes , yes , yeah they have a modulation but you don't have to pull as hard . And so in Shimano's I got to tell you and so many people are going to be mad at me but every bike that I get with Shimano brakes on , I pull them off immediately and sell them . It's not because it's not a good , yeah . And so if I have multiple bikes and they have different brakes , on them . I half the trail . I'm trying to figure out how to break this is what kills me and Lacey she's got Shimano's on one yeah .
Speaker 1And she's got tram on the other and then we just put pays on a third and I feel like I'm pretty sure she's alien .
Speaker 2I think she's coming Because you said she came from what Safford , safford .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's not real . It's pretty much a foreign country . It's like Mars .
Speaker 2No , not alien like that , Like yeah , she's an alien .
Speaker 1Like she's an extra yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2I'm pretty sure they just took a ship , and Safford is a ship with just some buildings . So that's my thought , but anyway , my thought , but anyway um no offense to our safford continue but but the pull of the lever ?
Speaker 3I my theory , like I said , is that with codes you've got to pull and then start pulling harder for more braking and if you're used to shimano , you pull the just the shimano rate and then you never get to the power yeah , and then , on top of that , if you don't have a bedded in brake system , you're hitting that wall and then you're not generating the friction so it feels like you're pulling the lever as much as you can . You know like it's clamped as tight as it's going to be , but then you also don't have the friction aspect . Yeah Cause .
Speaker 2I'll go out in the parking lot and I'll ride the same bike that the customer's like . These don't work and I'm flipping over the bars you know , I'm not even kidding , Like this has happened multiple times and I'm like and we pull the brakes off , you know , and the customer ends up buying Shimano , and I think it's a style difference . I really do so so yeah , personal preference .
Speaker 3But again , bed your brakes . People check it , look for hotspots . Your brake rotor offers zero stopping power until it is bed in , I think a lot of people think of just like the clamping mechanism of a break and don't really take into consideration that it's very much .
Speaker 2Oh , just contaminate your pads and see how fast .
Speaker 1Like it's crazy All right , so let's recap and then we'll finish up , and I can't believe I'm going to say this publicly , but I want more SRAM , so will you come back on and talk with us again .
Speaker 3Yes , let's do it in the spring , there'll be .
Speaker 2There'll be some cool stuff to talk about later on .
Speaker 1Awesome man , I don't want to wait that long , but if we , if we recap the stuff that we talked about , let me see if I can , how I do , and then you can , you can correct me where I missed it .
Speaker 1Right . So like I challenged Jimmy to like talk me into SRAM , he talked . He talked about um , specifically with the access stuff , how everything works together . I don't have to worry about does this part work with that part . It all works together . The reverb is supposed to be awesome , although I got to sell my third child to um , that's true to buy one yeah , uh , the mavens are great . All future shram brakes are going to come out with mineral oil , which is the key selling point .
Speaker 2Uh , just , kidding , just kidding . Oh man , we're gonna have a talk about .
Speaker 1I know that's an episode alone full episode on brake oil so I know I'm just fucking with you .
Speaker 2I know , but yeah , what I missed man that was a good recap , I would say top to bottom um , and that your local bike shop likes to work on sram yeah , well , I and and we didn't mention this , but we mentioned in different podcasts is sram , and not that shimano hasn't done this , but SRAM has made a big push to be a partner with the bike shops . They realize that the bike shop is where people go , they congregate , they can find rides , they can find friends , they can find advice and that is something they find valuable . And that is something they find valuable and they've made an investment into the bike shops as far as that goes . And the bike shops in general respond to that Like , hey , thanks .
Speaker 1I'd like to shout out to our female listeners as well there's also a lot of single guys working at bike shops .
Speaker 2Oh , my God .
Speaker 1Come on by and take your pick . Scoop one up .
Speaker 3I mean Shimano's done great things for the industry .
Speaker 1You'll never hear me . I mean , shimano has done great things for the industry . You know you'll never hear me with exception trashing any of their products .
Speaker 3But , um , you know , one of the big things too is like well it's . Cycling is just an aspect of what Shimano is doing .
Speaker 2The same things , they're doing it at their pace and then SRAM does their pace and and they're not always the same , and sometimes Shimano kills it . They do Honestly , they , they come out with something and they just kill it .
Speaker 3Um , sram has just lately been so much faster to things we so we like to we we engage with , like the enthusiast segment of this of this hobby , which is the people that are at bike shops that , you know , like new stuff , like to put it to its limits and , you know , test for future stuff , like , yeah , we would rather be , you know , making something and bringing something new and hearing your feedback than just in our own , you know , silo make something that we think is perfect by ourselves and I gotta tell you something that I'm personally making a big change in my life to not pick sides , and that's true .
Speaker 1You're trying to do that in lots of things .
Speaker 2Yeah , and so I have moved away from one brand in my suspension to adopt more brands . And you know , I'm going to do that with my drivetrain , I'm going to do that with other things to to make sure that I am well-rounded person .
Speaker 1As a bike shop owner , that's a good idea .
Speaker 2Yeah , and , and I don't want to just pick something just because you know it's Raiders or Cowboys , you know , I'm just you know .
Speaker 3I don't want that either . I like a bike shop employer that entertains everything .
Speaker 2If you see a bike out there with one brand in the drive train and one brand in the brakes , that's very common , you know , and I think that's a good way to approach it . You know , and it may be surprising that it's the opposite on one bike and the opposite on another . You just get what's good for you .
Speaker 1So , jimmy , you got any final thoughts for our listeners ?
Speaker 3Well , I feel very strongly about the brake bedding .
Speaker 2Have you ? Do you know any shops that use those machines ?
Speaker 3Yes , actually I've seen a few pop up recently .
Speaker 1They're pretty cool .
Innovative Braking System Discussion
Speaker 3I think that could be a really big game changer .
Speaker 1Oh shit , what are you talking about ? I might have to buy one of those things . Oh , you won't want to do it . They're very expensive .
Speaker 2I think , you could make one out of a cooler motor .
Speaker 3I'm pretty sure you really could .
Speaker 1It's essentially just a machine , just put a rubber band on the brake lever and more or less to prescribed extents and I really do think that you know that is something again .
Speaker 3we could get into a whole nother episode of that , but I think I think so Primarily .
Speaker 2You know , if you live in an area with like bad weather and stuff , like we don't even want to go test ride when it's raining not that it rains here much , but if it's snowing or raining you're not taking your bike out , and so they may be not getting bread in and the the bike gets stuck on the floor for sale with the thought that we'll do it later , and then the customer goes and takes it home and doesn't have the experience . So this machine lets you do it in the shop , so you don't have to go around the block , you don't have mechanics like coming back , like out of breath , like me .
Speaker 1So did you know ? Ben Chandler is going to go buy one of these . Oh , yeah , absolutely , but shout out to Ben at .
Speaker 2Ben's bikes . To all those people listening , this is a prime place to make something , because right now there's two brands that I know of and they're very expensive and I this is like a .
Speaker 1I'm cutting this out . Okay yeah , they need to sell this service . We've been looking for a product . We've been looking for a product rollers .
Speaker 2You just take the back and put a motor on it . That's it . That's all you need .
Speaker 3I'll close with an almost anti-sales pitch , which is before you decide that you need to go out and buy something new , just check the settings and set up on your current product .
Speaker 2Yeah , that is very good .
Speaker 1Jimmy . Thanks a lot , brother . Thank you , guys I appreciate it .
Speaker 3Yeah , we'll do it again .
Speaker 2We could do another hour . I know it's fun . Yeah , it is , it's awesome , it's fun , and then other people get to hear it ?
Speaker 3Can you dig it ? Can you dig it , can you dig it ?
