Mountain Cog

116 - Bike Shop Secrets: Grip Reviews (SQ Labs & Rev Grips) + Fox Podium Fork and More

• Josh Anderson & Dane Higgins

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Looking to upgrade your mountain bike's contact points without breaking the bank? This episode of the Mountain Cog Podcast explores two of the best grip solutions for combating arm pump and hand numbness: SQ Labs 70x 2.0 Pro Grips and Rev Grips. SQ Labs brings German precision engineering with ergonomic design focused on reducing peak loads and delaying forearm fatigue through advanced TPE compound technology. Josh details his experience running these $40 grips across multiple bikes and why he's convinced enough to replace every grip in his stable. Meanwhile, Rev Grips offers a unique suspension approach with machined aluminum end caps and elastomers that allow the grip to absorb impacts differently. Dane breaks down the pros and cons of each system, including sizing options (small, medium, large), installation nuances, and which riders benefit most from each design philosophy.

In the gear spotlight, Dane delivers a comprehensive Fox Podium inverted fork review that challenges conventional wisdom about this premium suspension component. At $2,000 and weighing a full pound more than the Fox 38 Factory, the Podium seems like a hard sell—until you hear about its game-changing performance on technical descents. Dane shares specific trail examples where the Podium's superior lateral stiffness and resistance to binding prevented crashes in notorious corners that regularly send riders over the bars. The discussion covers everything from seal leaking issues and bushing alignment concerns to why this fork excels at 160-170mm travel but might not suit weight-conscious riders or jumpers. Plus, critical bike shop secrets about steering tube extensions, CSU replacement costs, and why you should never cheap out on certain bike components.

SQ Labs: 70x 2.0 Pro Grips

Rev Grips: https://revgrips.com/

Fox Podium: https://ridefox.com/products/podium

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Host - Dane Higgins:

Take a breath. Don't die on me. Oh my God. I see you turned to like red. You're bright red after it's a lot of like it's a lot of what a lot of non-breathing went on right there. Yes. Yes. Um, I got a dad joke. Oh shit. Yeah, I know. And I'm calling this one out. I'm not trying to sneak it in and like it's straight up.

Host - Josh Anderson:

This is a dad joke. We're not gonna sneak it in yep.

Host - Dane Higgins:

It cracks me up. It's not gonna crack anyone else up. So why was four so scared of five? I don't know. Six seven.

Host - Josh Anderson:

You have to have like a 13-year-old kid to get that joke right now. Stupid joke.

Host - Dane Higgins:

It doesn't, it doesn't make any sense, but you said the word six seven, and I can picture my kids like doing the six seven hand thing. Did you know that's that became the word of the year?

Host - Josh Anderson:

No.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Like, yeah. Like, yeah. I can't remember what what uh what it was, but I mean we have a good time. Anytime, and it's crazy. Um, you know, it's like you know when you are looking for uh I I was looking for a van, you know, uh for a guru. And um once you're done and I bought it, I still see them everywhere, you know, because you get that I there's a term for it, but you get you get scoped into whatever you're thinking of, right? And you see it everywhere. And those vans were all still there, but if you're not thinking about them, you don't see them. And now we see six seven everywhere. We'll go to the grocery store and see the uh the number six seven, or somebody will say the word, or or uh Turner will be doing his homework and he'll be like, dude, it it wanted me to multiply three times sixty-seven or something like that.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Used to be sixty-nine, now it's sixty-seven, right?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, and so it's crazy how much that has influenced my middle and high school uh young high school. Oh my gosh.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But yeah, I just had to throw that one out there because I'm sure there's a number of people listening that have Yeah, there's a bunch of people that have like kids that are 13 or 15 and they know the joke, and then there's a whole bunch of other people like, what in the F are these guys talking about?

Host - Dane Higgins:

I'm waiting for you know, usually when the parents get in on it and they like it and they do it too, the kids want to drop it as fast as possible. So, and that's not happening.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I've been doing it though. I've been doing six, seven I I asked my both my boys to like tell me the origin of it. They don't know. They have no fucking clue. Most of them don't. As a matter of fact, I've tried to find the origin of it. It's weird. It's like it's like a basketball player or some BS.

Host - Dane Higgins:

But then there's a rap song reference. Who knows? Yeah. Who knows? You can go deep dive and just get way down in that.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, I I lost an hour of my life trying to figure out the origin of 6-7. Do you know what mewing is? Oh God. Is that an is that an NSFW thing? Uh no. Not safe for work?

Host - Dane Higgins:

No, it's safe.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But this is mewing. Oh, mewing. Okay.

Host - Dane Higgins:

They do their like they they they do like a You do that a lot, actually. Well, I'm scratching my my face. You're Mr. Mew. No, I think you're trying to. No, this is like your jawline or something. Yeah, you're trying to do the like I'm schwabing. This is good.

Host - Josh Anderson:

You should explain what it is that you're doing because our listeners can't see you.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yes, exactly. Yeah, I'm not it's like this kind of along your jawline and like like you're a model or something and kind of making the pouty face. And so my k, you know, my ten-year-old is doing this with his other buddies in the backseat as we're driving to something, and and it just cracks me out.

Host - Josh Anderson:

They're doing they're mewing you.

Host - Dane Higgins:

The stupid stuff that they do is just it's super entertaining. So it really is. I get I get a kick out of it, and then I love to mess it up. So I've been saying like six two, you know, because there's six five. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then you don't do the arm gesture the same, you can upside out. Yeah, or you do like big circles instead of like up and down, and and then you embarrass the crap out of them. Oh, Jesus. All right, that was my dad joke.

Host - Josh Anderson:

All right. Um so it's Wednesday night on the MCP. It's a day before Thanksgiving. Like, I don't know how we both got kitchen passes for this. Lacey's like, you're doing a podcast on the day before Thanksgiving. Oh, I'm gonna ride tomorrow morning.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Oh, I don't know how I pulled that off. And then we've got our Black Friday ride, so the shop closes on Friday.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, you're like the only retail shop on the fucking planet. Well, REI started it.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Oh, REI started. Okay, tell me the story. And and so REI, I don't know who started it really, but REI. Yeah, we noticed REI, and this is a while back. And the concept was instead of you know fighting and going and and um well, there was a lot of controversy with like Target and Walmart, like making people work on Thanksgiving so that they could be open super early, you know, on Black Friday. On Black Friday, and just taking them away from their families. And so there's some of the the retail people were just like, we're not gonna do that. We're we're we care about our employees and we're not gonna do that, and we're not gonna have this kind of like door buster kind of frenzy thing. That's not what's important. And so REI, I think, was one of the first to call it like opt-out, you know, and go outside. And so we embrace that because uh again, I I love selling stuff and I love selling bikes and I like getting getting people riding, but I don't want to like have some you know, CO2s on sale so they're like standing at the door. I'd rather they go ride their bike, you know. And so uh it's our tradition to be closed on that Friday and then we host a ride. And sometimes we do big stuff, we'll do barbecues or events. This year it's been pretty hard. Um, we've had just a short-handedness and just lots of stuff going on. So we we have a more mellow just ride that we're gonna do.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, if you're a badass mechanic in the uh Southern Arizona area and you're looking for a position, shoot us an email because Guru Bikes is looking for a mechanic.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, we need a full-time mechanic and uh service manager. Sweet. But it's busy, it's you know, it's tougher to plan.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I bet you get applications on that. That would be hilarious.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Just this random comment we just I think that's a good thing.

Host - Josh Anderson:

It wouldn't be the first time in the last couple months that someone got a job because of our podcast. Let's not tell the story, but like yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

We have to tell that story. Okay, tell it. We'll tell it. No, no, not now. Okay, we'll tell you suspense.

Host - Josh Anderson:

We should bring him back up. We'll bring him back up and let him tell a story of how he came on the podcast and it ended up changing his career.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yep, exactly. Yeah. So I think that's cool. That's a good teaser. So that's not totally teaser.

Host - Josh Anderson:

No one who knows who we're talking about.

Host - Dane Higgins:

No, not at all. So but yeah, uh, so yeah, that's that's what's going on this weekend. I'm gonna get some riding in. And I don't know. I don't know how I pulled off a Thursday and Friday ride.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Thursday, Friday ride, and Wednesday night, day before Thanksgiving podcast. And we were supposed to start at six o'clock, but Dane and I have been bullshitting for an hour and ten minutes.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Well, we had to catch up. I haven't seen you in a while. It's been a minute. Yeah, it's been a minute. It's that time of year, too, like lots of family things. I I looked at my schedule and we had El Tour last weekend, which is a big perimeter race, uh mount or sorry, uh road bike race in Tucson. It's huge. People from all over the world, thousands and thousands of people. El Tour de Tucson. El Tour de Tucson. Yep. And then uh before that we had a bike swap meet, so we were getting ready for that, which is a big thing for us. Anytime we have used bikes or used parts or takeoffs or whatever, we go out there and sell them, and it's it's good to connect with the community. And then on then we have the Tucson Tenor, which is a mountain bike race coming out. Late season, it's in January. We got the poker ride.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Poker rides, poker rides coming up. This podcast will come out after the poker ride.

Host - Dane Higgins:

But yeah, we're sponsoring that.

Host - Josh Anderson:

We're sponsoring, we're donating the Mountain Kike podcast and Guru Bikes are collectively donating a pivot switchblade, brand new frame.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, carbon fiber, $4,500 retail for the five.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, Fox Factory shock. I mean, it's fucking money.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, it's cool. And so uh and then the tenors in January, and then pretty soon, right after that, we have the 24 hours and the old pub. Like my calendar is just crazy.

Host - Josh Anderson:

It's crazy because like we the rest of the world's like, oh my god, it's snowing. I can't believe it.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And we're like, this is when we get busy. I was hanging out with a customer in front of the shop today, and I was just like, it is so nice out. You know, I I want to put chairs out in front and just hang out in front of the shop.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So I've been doing a lot of trailmaid.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Sorry, wait, we we should say we should apologize because there's gonna be a lot of people mad.

Host - Josh Anderson:

No, don't be mad. Here's the deal like if you're missing your bike right now, yeah, or if you're gonna miss your bike in January, just give just send us an email and come down to Tucson. Yeah, we'll show you all the places, we'll take you out and ride.

Host - Dane Higgins:

How cool would that be to like have like a mountain cognitioner event?

Host - Josh Anderson:

Well, we should we should throw that around.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Oh, you know, if if uh that should that would be fun. I would be down for that.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, we should throw that around. So so if anyone, if anyone is vaguely interested in that, yeah, shoot us, shoot us a note and we'll uh it'd be fun. We'll figure something out, man. We'll figure something out. Okay, so tonight we thought um well, I I guess it's probably worth just commenting. Like this podcast has grown significantly in the last several months. And so I just want to thank our listeners. Absolutely. Um the uh completion rates, which is like how long you all are listening to each episode, is like still best in the industry. Sounds like you're telling your friends. You must be telling your friends. We're still in the top ten. You guys like what we're saying. We take um all of your feedback like really seriously. So we read every comment. Uh we may not respond to everyone, but we read everyone and we try to factor that into like how we plan episodes going forward and how Danny and I talk and what guests we bring on. So please keep sending us that feedback, uh, and we will continue to shape this. One thing that's been very, very clear to us in the numbers is that you guys really like these bike shop secret episodes, so we'll keep doing those. And um, it dawned on me that my idiocy uh on working on bikes will have no end, and Dane's like expertise on working on bikes will also have no end, and so that's a perfect mixture between those two things.

Host - Dane Higgins:

You you do make me sound perfect, and I'm not. No, you're not. And it's it's definitely not.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And uh slightly better than me.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Well, and and what happens is like we learn every day. Like every day people bring in stuff and we learn. I remember a customer, very nice guy, he bought a pivot from us, uh-huh. And I would bet he's an engineer, he's a super nice guy. Right. And we were having a problem with this derailleur, and I kept telling him it was this, and I you know, we were just running into an issue and we were trying to troubleshoot it. And I man, that guy is the type of guy who will go online, absorb, and rememorize everything about that bike. Right. And he called me on a couple things that I said were wrong, and I just felt like the biggest idiot, you know. And luckily, he's a nice enough guy that he he still comes in. I just saw him last week and he's a really nice guy. His wife has a pivot, he has a pivot. And uh it's just kind of you know, I get smacked in the face once in a while. And you know, and and and somebody will be like, put me in my place, which is good, you know, I I need that. And uh most of the time, uh, you know, I try and phrase things never absolutely absolute, yeah. Because it's you you can always be wrong. Like there's always something that'll pop up, you know, and you're like, ah shit. I didn't know.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Dude, that's a great disclaimer. So as a strategist, and you guys got a little taste in episode 114. I think the first time ever that you got a little taste of like Josh is as an expert in something.

Host - Dane Higgins:

That's the D to C one.

Host - Josh Anderson:

In the in the in the in the wired DTC uh brands failing. And we did a little experiment to see if you guys, if we got nerdy on business fundamentals, if you guys like that stuff. That's kind of what I do in my day job. But what I tell what I tell my senior leaders, because we're strategic advisors to a big company, is that like I'm gonna come to you with 10 recommendations. If you take my recommendation four times out of ten, 40% of the time, then I know I've earned my money. Because these guys are really smart, well-paid, smart guys, you know, very capable, very capable leaders, very capable strategists in their own right. But if I can bring new data and change your mind, change the direction of your business, change how you're deploying your resources, whatever, four times out of ten, then I've earned my keep. That means six times out of ten, you're like, Josh, you're a freaking idiot. Get out of here.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So uh you know, if that was Turner's homework, you would be failing. I'm just saying. 40%'s not gonna cut it, bro. Yeah, yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I mean, when you're trying to turn a 90 million 90 billion dollar company around, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

You need to be getting a 67. 67. 6'7.

Host - Josh Anderson:

All right. So we've got uh you guys told us you like the products. Yeah. Dane and I have a couple products that um we want to talk about. And then uh we've got some bike shop secrets. And then, you know, since Dane is a suspension expert, if we get to it, hopefully we get to it, until we'll see if we have time. We probably won't.

Host - Dane Higgins:

But uh We would go a little longer.

Host - Josh Anderson:

We can go a little longer. I mean, don't I mean that last episode uh the only problem I cut it up? I mean the only problem with going longer is it takes me fucking forever to get it down to I know, but that's what I mean.

Host - Dane Higgins:

You can go a little longer, they can be a little longer. I was I was listening to a podcast the other day, and sorry I'm on a on a tangent.

Host - Josh Anderson:

It's causing us to record more.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, I'm sorry. But it was super annoying because it was like this retail podcast, and every episode was like 15 minutes, and I was really annoyed.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Well, we don't do 15 minutes, but like it's like an hour is roughly the right.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Like there's no rule. Yeah, you know, it's not like you can't post it or whatever.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Well, lots of women like to listen to us while they're going to sleep. We've heard that many, many times. And if we go longer than an hour, we might disrupt their sleep. So we have to keep it roughly an hour. All right. There you go. So uh so we've got we've got some products, we've got some bike shop secret questions, and then uh I've still not like completely demystified the enigma that is setting up my suspension. Okay. And so what I thought to try to attack this a different way, instead of talking about all the different variables, do one at a time, we would deep dive in one variable and assuming we can get to it today, SAG, which as I understand it is like everything's based on SAG. Yep. Starts if you've if your SAG's effed up, everything's effed up. Yep, yeah. Uh I thought we would deep dive on that, and then we can go into uh low speed compression, high speed compression, you know, rebound, uh low speed rebound, uh high speed rebound, um, and there's probably more.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, so we could do that on each episode that we can do.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I'm down. And if you listen to like seven or eight episodes, you'll be an expert in how you set up your suspension. I'm not gonna say that, but all right, let's get into some products. Okay. You want to go first or you want me to go first? Uh you go first because you did all the writing. So there's this company. So so if you go back a few episodes, and and I apologize off the top of my head, I can't remember the episode, but if you go back a few episodes, and by a few I mean like 50.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Uh yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

You'll get to Tyler Vandruff, who is the co-owner of Guru Bikes, um, also owns uh Van Ruff Fit Solutions. And we uh I I you'll hear us talk about bike fitting. We've had two bike fit um episodes, uh one with Frank the Fitter, one with with Tyler. And we're big advocates, we talked about in episode 114, that we're big advocates of bike fits. It's a small investment that can make huge gains with little tweaks to your bike, and you wouldn't believe it until you actually do it. Yeah. But one of the one of the brands that Tyler's like really into that uh I see him kind of slinging, and I look back, I see right behind me. We're in the guru bike shop right now, and right behind me I can see Tyler's Fit Studio. Um, is this company called SQ Labs. It's a German company, and it's a company that really focuses on ergonomics of the ki this is this is Josh's words, not their words, but ergonomics on the contact points of where the rider contacts the bike. So your seat, your grips, and your paddles.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And your bars. They do. And your bars, your bars, bars are correct. And then they're science oriented. It's it's the reason I say that and I break in and sorry, is because one of the things that that happens is sometimes bike stuff gets kind of overmarketed or fashion-based. Yeah. And the scientists kind of get shoved to the back. Yeah. And so it's amazing to me though, but when a scientist gets involved in some of this stuff, it really makes a big difference.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So the science of ergonomics, yeah, and they have taken like a I think a really thorough ergonomic, scientific approach to these contact points. And uh I have been running a set of their grips. Uh these are these are kind of like Gravity Enduro grips. They're by SQ Labs, Sierra Quebec Labs, and they're the 70x 2.0 Pro Grips. I gotta talk to them about marketing and naming because that name sucks. Yeah, the whole industry is like 70X Pro Grips. They're like 40 bucks lock-on grips. Yeah, they're fucking fantastic. As a matter of fact, tonight, actually this evening before they closed the drawer in the shop, I went to Tyler and I said, I need two more pairs of those so I can replace them. So now all of my flat bar bikes will have these 70x 2.0 pro grips from SQ Labs. Um and here's their philosophy behind it. So like if you if you um have ever experienced the concept of arm pump, which I think specifically at like bike parks, it happens a lot.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Long descents. Long descents, it happens a lot. But uh that that is a combination, as they this is their their their their words, of repeated impacts and a constant, like tough grip. Those two things equal reduced blood blood flow to your arm to your forearms, and those and reduced blood flow to your forearms results in arm pump, and then you can't hang on to your bars. So they set out to try to see what could they do with grips to help um combat that. They came up with these grips, the again, the 70X 2.0 Pro Grips. And by and just for the record, like I'm not getting paid by SQ Grips.

Host - Dane Higgins:

No, they didn't even give you some.

Host - Josh Anderson:

They haven't given me anything. As a matter of fact, I I'm I'm so in love with this company. I want I've asked, I've I've got two different contact points. I've sent them a cold email asking them to come on the podcast, and we're working through the rep to see if they can come on the podcast because I want you guys to hear about this. Because this brand and these products, this is a low cost. It's so funny, the bike I'm looking on right there has a set of SQ grips on it. But it's a low-cost um uh way to like upgrade and make your bike feel way better. Grips, saddle, pedals. Those are not expensive components, right? They're not, it's not a fork, it's not a drivetrain, really inexpensive things. It has changed my relationship with my bike. Um the vibration dampening is amazing. They're super comfortable. I think the way I can explain it is like it's really easy to hang on when you're going through like really, really technical, chattery stuff. Like, I don't, it's not as hard to hang on. Um, and then the weird thing is it like really slightly reorients the the angle of your arms. Yeah. And it just feels awesome. They've got this. I don't I don't want to go into all their marketing shit, but they've got some like new compound that they've used. Um, they call it TPE, that they say is like the reason why it's got these dampening um uh characteristics uh characteristics. But uh it's just fantastic. Um they say it reduces peak loads and delays forearm fatigue. Uh huh. I don't know about all that. I just know when I ride 'em, they feel fucking great. My arms don't get sore. So so, anyways, from a product perspective, if you're if you're thinking about some new grips or if you're a bike fucking, you know, nerd and you just want to blow and it's not super expensive, it's forty bucks. Yeah, yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

They're not crazy.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, not crazy. I mean, maybe forty bucks is expensive for grips. I don't know. Is forty bucks expensive for grips?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Uh it's on par. Like it's a nice grip, like lock-ons, you know, good quality. You can get them cheaper, you know, twenty to thirty bucks. Okay. Um, so and then there's different brand loyalties. Did you know that I'm gonna talk about grips too? I do.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, I do. So so Dane's gonna talk about grips. He's got another set of grips that he loves.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I didn't take two, but that's okay because different people like different things. Yeah. That's totally cool. Anyways, um, so my product that I was just wanted to highlight today is these SQ grips. And hopefully um And you're making me want a set of those, which I could easily get a set of. Yeah, they're sitting right across from you, man. Um there's one thing I just want to say. Okay, like you can if you if you do want to buy some, you can buy them from their website, you can find a local shop that has them. Obviously, we love the local shop concept, so if you if your local shop salesman go there.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Well, and and uh you kinda I mean, just for the local versus buying online, one of the the things that they really focus on is a very different variety for depending on your ergonomics. So having somebody who knows the product really well to help walk you through to get the right product is really helpful. Really helpful. And um I've seen in the shop with SQ product, if you get there's a lot of variances that will change. And if you get the wrong product, you may not have the same experience like you did. And so having an expert help you with that is worth it, and I would say that's something to consider, you know.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, I mean okay, so they have this they have this printout on their website that you can print out, yep, and it's just a hand, and you put your hand on it, and it says, because these grips come in small, medium, and large, yep, and it says, okay, based on this hand size, you should be uh uh you know small, medium, or large. I'm kind of like halfway between medium and large. Yeah. And so so at you know, talking with Tyler tonight, and I'm like, I really like the largest, they feel good, but uh maybe I'm closer to a medium. He's like, bro, just fucking stick, you know you like the largest, just buy larges. So that's what I did tonight.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, yeah. And that it it helps to have somebody kind of, especially if you run into that mid-level between tooth products or something like that. It's nice to have that advice. Plus, you're getting feedback, plus you, you know, you may have you may end up with the wrong product, and having somebody that you can go back to and say, hey, I think this is wrong, can we switch it out? It's they may have a policy that helps you with that.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And and for the record, I have bought several pairs of these grips from you guys, all from you guys. Yeah. And I've given them out to people. Yeah. And I've got I've given them out to three people, and those three people love them in addition to me. Yeah. So I've got four data points. So you got good, good. I got, yeah, it's not just one. It's I mean, maybe a sip size of four is bad. Yeah. But I don't have a bad sample yet of like, hey, I didn't really get along with those. Everyone's like, I fucking love those. Matter of fact, one of my buddies sold his bike, bought a new bike, bought a switch blade, he sold his Mach 4, bought a switchblade. He's like, Oh, pulling the grips off. I'm missing he didn't. He didn't pull the grips off. He hasn't learned that trick yet? He came over my house, he's like, Oh, I'm really missing my grips. I'm like, I just so happen to have another pair. So I've given him two sets of these grips. What you're saying is everybody hang out at Josh's house. Josh's house. If you bring a bottle of whiskey, you'll get some free grips.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Hey, I have something to say. Shoot. Okay, here we go. That's that's what I had to say right there. Um okay. All right, over to you with your product. Switching to a different type of grip uh that we're gonna review. Um, and that and you actually helped me with this because you gave me the ones that you had and you didn't like them, and I said, Hey, I want to try those. I've been hearing good things and I want to give them a shot. I want to see if I like them for similar reasons, arm pump. Um also uh, you know, just I ride aggressive and I I've just my body is feeling it lately. And so um doesn't help that I keep breaking stuff. But uh so they are called rev grips, and so some people have heard of these, some people haven't, but rev grips have similar, they have different types of patterns and different widths, so you can buy them in different sizes, usually a small, medium, and large, also. But they use a uh end cap that s suspends the grip in a rubber elastic kind of uh way that allows them to rotate and move and absorb a little shock. And so um we were uh I was selling a pair today actually to a friend of mine. I was telling him that I really liked them, and we were kind of going through like the pros versus uh they have a race series and then they have some some other you know different versions.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So it has like an elastomer inside the the lock-ons?

Host - Dane Higgins:

The lock-ons, yeah. So the the big concept is and this is common with a lot of grips, is they're starting to go to like a more of a solid core. Uh with sometimes they only have one clamp on the inside, and you slide them onto the bar, and the one clamp is actually integrated into kind of the plastic of that that helps maintain its security. So it doesn't twist rigidity, yeah. And um, and so one of the problems with that is you're now taking up some space with not rubber but plastic. Right. And so they they're if they're too thin, you may get more pressure points, you don't have as much cushion. I've had that, I I bought some cool looking purple grips and I got them because they were purple, and I put them on my bike because I had purple accents, and then I went out and rode them, and man, they are killing my hands. And so, as cool looking as they are, they are causing a problem. So I need to replace them.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But the rev grips come in many different colors as well. Yes, yeah. By the way, SQ Labs as well is is now coming in many different colors. Used to be black, just black. Yeah, and then I got on their website and there were many different colors, and Tyler's like, Hey, did you know they're coming out with new colors soon? I'm like, they're already on the website.

Host - Dane Higgins:

That's cool, that's cool. Yep. Um, so yeah, everybody likes a little bling. And so um, I really wasn't worried about the bling because honestly, once you have like some sharp points and and hand numbness, you don't care what your grips look like. You just want them not to ever train.

Host - Josh Anderson:

My hands don't go no numb.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Um so it is nice if the company that you do like has the color options, but really I was going for comfort. I wasn't necessarily going for arm pump, um, but I wanted uh something to take the edge off. I've been trying different things, like the one-up bar, uh with uh which is a carbon fiber uh bar that is flattened out to give you more of kind of a leaf spring to take some of the bump off. And then uh I've just now started to do these rev grips.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And so do they come in different sizes too?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Oh yeah. Yeah, they'll they'll come in different sizes and shapes. So you can go on their website and get them. We do stock them at the shop, so you can find local sources for them too. They're a San Diego-based company, too. Yeah, so uh we met them at Sedona when we went to Sedona, and they're our machining company. So the the kind of the interesting thing about them is they actually uh do their own in-house sh machining.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And that that would be for like the end caps.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, and they're and they're made in the USA. And I don't remember the story that they gave us fully, but I think it had to do with they basically saw a way to kind of create more comfort, and then they had the ability to make what they needed so they could try it out and fine-tune it.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So RevGrips is kind of like a suspension grip.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yes, yeah. And so what happens is that hard inner plastic almost floats over your bar. It does. I mean the grips move a little bit, right? And the end caps clamp onto your bar and hold that inner piece in a place, yeah, and then the elastic allows for movement both up and down and twisting.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And they come with different elastomers, right? So they have like a couple different.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Lately, the ones that we've gotten only come with one set.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Oh, interesting.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, yeah. And so uh there's different versions. So there is way too many uh versions for me to actually go on. But the concept is that you can get them and then you can fine-tune them. You can get different color end caps, you can get different grip styles and grip widths. So there's different elastomer. Yeah, yep. And the idea it allows for a little bit more comfort. And uh, you know, like a lot of people that come to me for suspension are trying to get more small bump compliance. And sometimes your suspension just can't do that for whatever reason. You could be riding a you know, a 32 millimeter, 100 millimeter fork um and racing it, and it's just not gonna be a supple fork. This is why you love DVO. Yeah, well, and but also I don't ride a 32mm, 100 millimeter DVO. They don't have one that I'll ride. I ride a fox. And so the fox is a little firmer and a little bit less forgiving because honestly, when you have a hundred millimeters of travel, you don't have a lot of room to create comfort, you know. And so these grips can kind of compensate for that. Or, like I said, I was I was trying the one-up bar, uh, which does the same same kind of concept, just increase your comfort, you know. Yep. So uh these rev grips, uh, I've put them on a couple bikes. I had them on that frameworks that I was testing and using them at the bike park. Uh they were the bigger size, the large, and I did actually notice a lot less arm pump with them. Uh I noticed you know, there it's a little bit of a sensation. If you get on the bike and you grab that grip and you twist it or turn it like a throttle, like you would, you can feel it move. And so I was a little concerned that I would get on the trail.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Be like out of control or something. Yeah, it would affect me. But that that didn't happen at all.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Not at all. I didn't notice it on the trail at all. I didn't notice that uh affecting how I ride or you know, when I pull up for an obstacle or push down to go down a drop or something. Yep. It didn't really affect it in any way, and so I I was really happy with them. So I've unlike you, you didn't experience the same things and we didn't ride them the same, but you didn't have as good of experience. You found the SQ labs. I found these and I was I've been very happy with them so far. And so now um I've actually got a demo set that we bought that are like this tennis ball green uh or yellow or whatever you want to call it. That's safety yellow, safety yellow. So they will get dirty immediately. Yep, but I got a deep especially in the desert. Yeah, and so we actually are telling people if you really want to try them, I'll let you try those.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So, what are the price points?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Oh man, they go all over uh $59.99 to $89 today or yesterday. I was selling a pair, and um, and you gotta forgive me because I haven't memorized this product, it's fairly new in the shop. Um, but we were trying to figure out what the difference. He goes, What's the difference? And so we pulled the elastomers out. They both had the same amount and they were both the same color, so I don't think there's any difference there. Uh, I looked at the end caps. You do run them with end caps that are plugs that go in as a safety feature, really, to keep that on in case you don't tighten the end cap correctly.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, you should always tark torque your grips.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Well, um, you know, it's funny because uh I always recommend you know people read instructions, but I don't always push them to it. I watched a berm peep, berm peep, peep peep, Jesus Alva Seth uh try these grips out on his first episode. He didn't read the instructions, didn't install them correct, and they came off and he didn't like them. And what I remember is watching Oh, we're calling out Seth Alva. Oh no, he did it in his video. He's he was pretty honest about it. He was like, I screwed this up. Yeah, he he you know, he's he said it. And so uh he he then like I think it was a video or two later, shows up with him still on his bike. And because he was not recommending, he's like, these are expensive and 70, 80 bucks, I'm not gonna pay for you know a grip that you know and and he's he's very cost conscious. Yeah, and and and that's okay. And I think he was actually comparing them to like an AliExpress grip or something, or I I'm not sure. He does that a lot. Yeah, but later I found it really interesting that he had them on his bike, and he I think then said, Hey, to be fair, I read the instruction, put them on correct, and I really like these grips. So uh it kind of made me understand one when I'm selling them to make sure people kind of I I I read if you're buying a product, yeah, just especially if you're buying a premium, like these would be premium grips. Yeah, they're premium. Read the fucking instructions. Well, and and they're not they're not just straightforward. You don't just tighten them down and so uh and then the end caps go on to keep them on, you know, in case you didn't do that.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But but for the record, they're not fucking hard to install.

Host - Dane Higgins:

They are just more nuanced than just tighten it and go like to give you pointers, the elastomers are directional. Yes. So you can't put them in.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Oh Jesus Christ, I didn't know that.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Maybe I put them in backwards.

Host - Dane Higgins:

It's possible.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So back to our bike shop secrets.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So, like if you don't uh, you know, if you don't install them correct, you may not have the best. So read the instructions. They have good instructions, they're there.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Just for the record, when I'm you know, I said it, I'm not a big fan of them. Yeah. I didn't read the instructions.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I mean I can't I looked at the diagram and sound very Sethy right now.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So no one's ever called me Sethy before.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So but yeah, that's my review of grips. So like two different products doing two different things, but kind of trying to tackling the same problem. Yeah, exactly. And they're both great products. Um, and so uh I did notice that I can't quite tell, and I haven't deep dove uh into the difference between the Pro Series and the Race Series. Uh I noticed of you're talking about of yeah, like the $59 grip has um like the uh end caps aren't sculpted. They don't have like these little reliefs of machine work. Uh-huh. And they're $59, and then I noticed on the Pro Series the end caps are machined out probably for weight, looks, cosmetics, whatever. Yeah. And so that's one big difference that I saw. I'm not a hundred percent sure if the pro grips end up do coming with I I didn't notice extra elastic.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Listen, if you want to know the difference between the pro grips and the non-pro grips, go to your favorite AI tool and just ask it. Yeah, you could ask Bob.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Uh so um, but yeah, so far, and if you are in Tucson and you want to try them out, you can come by the shop and we'll show them to you. And uh, we have a pair that you can try out.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And you also sell SQ Labs.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yes, yeah, and so you can check them both out.

Host - Josh Anderson:

All right, so there's two really inexpensive uh products that I think can significantly improve your ride.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, yeah, big time.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Awesome Christmas present. Yes. If anyone's looking to get a last-minute Christmas present.

Host - Dane Higgins:

You know, that's a good point. We people we have people come in all the time that want presents, and and you're like, well, I can't sell you a shoe because you probably don't even know the size, you know. Even the tires are a tough one. We often sell socks, you know. Socks are something that cyclists don't always buy themselves, and they're really cycling socks are great. But a set of SQ labs or Rev grips, right?

Host - Josh Anderson:

If you know they got big, medium, or small hands.

Host - Dane Higgins:

They not spend that money on themselves, and so you're giving them something.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Something cool. That could be that'd be good. Okay.

Host - Dane Higgins:

That's not bad.

Host - Josh Anderson:

All right, we're gonna get into the bike shop secret stuff. Um we had another one.

Host - Dane Higgins:

We have another one. Well, um, we were gonna talk about the other thing that I was testing. Oh, go for it. So um this is suspension related. Yeah. So I've been testing the Fox Podium. Okay.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So inverted fork.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yep. If you guys 38. Yeah, if you've been near anyone watching YouTube, you've probably seen videos on this product. So I'm not getting into like all of the little stuff. I'm just gonna tell you some of my experiences. Um, I we brought them in and I took one, basically, and put it on my bike right away. And it looks bitching. I I'll tell you it looks bitching. Super cool. It looks like a motorcycle. It does. Um, it is inverted, so like you said, the stanchions explain what that means. So the stanchions are at the axle, they're they're upside down. Uh so it looks like a motorcycle fork. And on a traditional bike, you have a a lower casting that has an arch that goes over the tire. Um, if you were to flip that thing upside down, you've now got the gold part. So a Fox Factory has gold stanchions, Kashima, and they're now down at the bottom, and they actually attach to your axle. Um and so the telescoping part that compla compresses into the to the fork that compresses is going in from the bottom up instead of the the the god, it's harder. It's harder to I'm trying to visualize, you know, how to tell people this.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So you're so the bottom of the fork is the top of the fork.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, it's upside down. It's upside down, it looks like an upside down fork. It looks like an upside down fork. Yeah, it does.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Which has been around in motorcycles forever. I raced for and there's been several the Maverick way back in the day. Push has got one. There's a couple other companies that have them.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So I used to race for Marzoki, and our race forks were called the Shiver, and that was that fork. It was upside down fork. And then actually, my DVO, one of my first DVO race downhill forks, was called the Emerald. It was also upside down. They had a clever design where they made the mud guards so stiff, uh, you know, the the fork protection. Because when your stanchions are down low, they're now near the rocks. And so that's one of the drawbacks to inverted.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But they have like it's it's got some like covers covers to cover it, right?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, and if you look at motobikes like uh motorcycle off-road motorcycles, they often will have this type. It looks very moto. So okay, so we're past the looks. Uh so benefits uh are more of the weight is attached to the bike and the suspended piece is lighter, so it allows the wheel, they call that unsprung weight, that allows the wheel to be more fluid and have less weight and inertia when it flows over obstacles. So and that is something that typically causes a smoother ride. Uh so you get a smoother, softer ride. And like you said, there's other brands out there intend um to push. Uh there's a couple other ones. There's some funky ones. Ren makes one for fat bikes. Umks on the market, I will tell you, have serious drawbacks. Like uh most of the inverted forks. Invo inverted. In most cases, they are f more fle. And so when this fork came out, that was my biggest concern. Is this is this thing gonna be a flee monster where my wheel just wanders all over the place? Um and then uh a lot of inverted forks will have an issue where the oil sits on the seals, the wipers that are are it's gravity holding you know that oil on top of that. So that actually is a benefit because it keeps your wipers moist so that they can be more supple. Say that again moist, supple, moist, supple, supple and moist. And um so it's a good thing, but like uh Dorado, we didn't mention the Dorado, which is uh a Manitou downhill fork that's been doing this for ages. Back in the day, yeah. No, still still around a brand new one, yeah, yeah. They're pretty awesome. So and they've been doing it for years, and uh they conquered some of the flex issues because they have like a hex axle, so they shape the axle like a hex, so it is less likely to twist in the lowers. Interesting. Yeah, it's kind of cool. So you've got all these brands doing it, trying to figure out the drawbacks and everything. Well, how is Fox different? Well, one, the downhill forks are triple, which means they have an upper clamp, a lower clamp under the headset, so one above and one below, and this the uh fork upper tubes uh are held by two clamps at the top, and then you have the axle at the bottom. So that some sometimes people call that a triple clamp or a double clamp. Like there's a lot of our terms that will get thrown around, but basically the big thing is you'll see, unlike an enduro fork like Fox 38 or DVO Onyx, you'll see the upper tubes going farther up and then a clamp on the top of the headset that uh holds them. So the podium is not a triple clamp, uh it's a single crown. Right. And um they kind of have the same settings and same adjustments that you would get on a Fox 38.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Um so high speed, low speed, yeah, compression, high speed, low speed. Yep, exactly. Okay, set your sag.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah. They even have these clever little bleeder valves on the top caps. Uh, because if you invert the fork, you know, on a traditional uh big 38 millimeter fork, uh often you're gonna start seeing these bleeders on the back of them, these little sometimes it's a knob you turn to let air out. Sometimes it's something you push in. Yep, sometimes there was a lawsuit about that. It's pretty funny. Um, but anyway, uh they'll have something. So a lot uh the big three, you know, DVO, Fox, and um and Rock Shock all have those. Yep. So and at that big size, the amount of air that's in that casting acts like a spring, and they have to calculate that. So what's crazy is when you change altitude, like you drive up to the top of a mountain or take a chairlift, the air pressure can affect that. And so sometimes you need to bleed that off depending on the.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So if you have those bleed ports, here's a little PSA. If you have if you have a big fork like that, you have those bleed ports on there, if you go up in altitude significantly, like a couple thousand feet or higher or more, you should at the top of that, you should bleed that off. And we experienced that with the 38 that I put on my gorilla at Angel Fire, because I went up and I did my first fucking downhill, and I was like, Jesus, this bike is this fork is horrible. It's stiff and it won't compress and it feels awful. And Dane's like, Come here. And he's like, and he presses in the bleed valves, he's like, Shh, yeah, there's a little big difference. You idiot. You see these two knobs, like press them.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And and sometimes, you know, like from the bottom of the mountain to the top of the mountain, you may not see a big difference, like at a chair, chairlift park. Uh but if you are in San Diego and you go to Whistler, well, Whistler's bad because it's actually not as high. But if you're in San Diego and you go to Angel Fire and you go to 10,000, 12,000 feet above sea level, yeah. Uh, there's a big change in that. And so also the fork can kind of build up some pressure, you know, depending on heat expansion, all kinds of reasons. There's a lot of reasons. So downhill forks have done this for a long time, they've had kind of bleeders, moto forks for sure. Um, and so this is kind of new to bikes and we're all learning it. But the the fact is that casting is big and it allows for that. So the podium now has the casting on the top. So you they put them right on the top of the fork, they're really cool. So um, okay, so performance-wise. Yeah, let me let me skip ahead because everybody can look up the specs on this thing. They can know the travel, they can know all kinds of stuff. Yeah, but um what I experienced with the fork, it it's an expensive fork, by the way. This is a $2,000 fork.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Uh it's to compare it, so it's in the 38 class. Yeah. A Fox 38 factory MSRP is $1,249. Does that sound right? Yep, yeah. So it's $750 more expensive.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yep, exactly. And um, it comes in a $160 and a $170, so there's not a 180. Interesting. Okay. So uh so that that was one of the first things that put a couple people off because they're running like their Firebirds with 180s or something like that. Yeah. Okay, so let's skip over the specs and go to the performance. So I put this.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Can we talk about weight for a second?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Oh, yes, it's heavier.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So the Fox 38, it's it's almost a pound heavier than the Fox 38.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yes, absolutely.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So 750 bucks more and a pound heavier.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Sounds awful. Sounds awful. Why would you buy this? Why would you buy this? And and honestly, that was my attitude. That was absolutely because you're a weight guy. Well, and also because I like value, you know, and like if I can't run 180, it's heavier. I don't like heavier. Yep. And I've had inverted forks and I've I've experienced all those drawbacks. So I'm not really I'm not like, oh, this is the latest, greatest thing. I'm like, you guys are just rehashing old stuff. Yep. You know? So I stick it on my bike.

Host - Josh Anderson:

What bike did you stick it on?

Host - Dane Higgins:

I stick it on my uh pivot uh All Mountain. Didn't you have it on the frameworks? No. Uh okay. No, the frameworks has a 40 on it. Okay. Because it's a downhill bike and it needs to get it. Gotcha. Okay. So you had yet on a pivot. Yep. Yeah. If I had the frameworks enduro, I would have put it on there.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Gotcha.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Uh so I put it on my um e-bike. Okay, so one of the things that early on people are like, oh, this is great for an e-bike because the weight won't matter, right? And so, and and and that's realistic. Like, hey, you're getting heavier weight, but it won't matter on an e-bike, and so then it's not a big deal.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So that's all you write is e-bikes anyway. So that's not true. Um It's by the way, just for the record, I make that joke like once every six episodes. It's actually not true. I just like fucking with Dane.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Hey, and and just side note, uh SideQuest. That's what all the kids are saying, SideQuest. Okay. Um, I'm testing that uh new Trek uh Fuel EX that's modular. It's money, huh? And I yeah, I had a good time on that thing. We'll we'll we'll maybe even do that a review on that. So but back to the podium. Uh so here I am in the mindset that I don't think this thing's worth it. I I did bring them into the shop because I think it's hot and some people just want it.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And it's sexy, it's cool looking, it's different.

Host - Dane Higgins:

It is definitely cool looking. I I will tell you, they have these carbon fiber um guards to protect it. And you don't have to protect them. Protect the stanchions, right? Yeah, you don't have to protect them, but but it helps. You should, especially in Tucson. Yeah. Uh we have rocky terrain. But uh it is a sexy, sexy fork. It's no doubt when people see that fork, they're like, What it turns heads. And I have had plenty of people come in here and buy something just because of the looks, because it turns heads. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, nothing wrong. They ride it on the loop or paved path, you know. They never take it out on the woods. So um, so back to the performance. I put it on my e-bike and went and rode uh with you, and I rode, I thought it was with you, uh uh a trail we call Prison Camp. Um I That's when Steve and Chris both crashed.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yep.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Oh yeah, yeah. They crash every day.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Um they don't for the Steve, Chris doesn't crash every day.

Host - Dane Higgins:

But they crashed that day. Yeah, okay. So um, but we were getting ready for an angel fire trip and I wanted to test it out. And there, um, I you know, I noticed it was really supple and I was like, wow, this was good. I had to set my pressure and do some fiddling with it to make sure it was set up for me. You know, set my sag. But man, I was like pretty impressed with it in a small bump, but was it $2,000 and heavier worth it? I wasn't really feeling it like that as I climbed up to get to that downhill. Yeah. And then as I went down, here's the big performance, a couple big things that I noticed. One, it is so much stiffer, uh, forward and back, so laterally and twisting.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So not the when you say stiff, not the not the suppleness of the fork itself.

Host - Dane Higgins:

The opposite, it's super supple.

Host - Josh Anderson:

It's super supple. Yeah, but the the flexion that would happen in the stanchions itself, yeah, might be that's what you're talking about. Might be stiffened stiff in a good way. Yeah, feel like the way my wife likes that kind of stiff.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Oh, don't go there. Uh so the main thing is it it would absorb the bumps, amazing, and super supple, and it smoothed the trail out, made it really comfortable. Right. But if I hit something big, it didn't push back, it didn't flex backwards. And then when I went through a rock garden, it wasn't wandering, and it's almost too stiff in the rock garden. And what would happen is it's so stiff that if my front wheel was pointed at a rock, on a traditional fork, I would it would glance the rock, it would hit that rock and maybe glance off to it and wander back into the trail.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Is that visualized? And that's unusual for an inverted fork because typically it's the opposite. It's the opposite.

Host - Dane Higgins:

They're super noodly, yeah. And so uh in fact, I had to be careful if we were in kind of a trough and riding in a trough with sides, if I pointed at the side, you know, accidentally, I'm not doing it on purpose, but I'm I got offline, it will crawl right up the side. It wouldn't flex over and put me in. And so uh some riders may ride this fork and actually miss that. They may like the fact that if a flexier fork wanders and keeps them into the trail. They may miss that flexiness. They may like that kind of uh cheat code, yeah, you know, that that does.

Host - Josh Anderson:

That's me.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Um yeah, but the biggest performance thing, and here's my everything that I'm telling you. Not even a sales pitch, but what this is what you love about it. Yeah, this is where it made it really hard. I took that thing off the bike because we rent that fork so people can try it before they buy it. And uh it was very difficult for me to take it off my bike. On the same trail, there is a notorious corner. And you come into this corner.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Which are you talking about prison camp now? Yeah, yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And it's the uh it's a notorious corner, you're coming in, it's pretty rough, and you have an immediate right hand hairpin, like, but you're coming in in a rocky situation, you're dropping down in, and you have to do a hard right as you're going down off of rocks, and then you run right back into rocks before you make the corner, before you straighten out and finish out that corner. And what typically happens when you see somebody crash here is as they're turning, their fork will bind. Okay, and that's the word that everybody has to hear. It will bind, it'll get stiff, and it will kick you uh over the front end and you'll flip over the bars.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So this is because there's there's flexion or or or or deflection in the actual fork, and it's not able to compress because it's like bent, like the stanchions are bent, and it'll like stop. Yeah, and when it stops and you hit something, instead of like sucking up the bump, it'll it'll it'll stop.

Host - Dane Higgins:

You ever sit on your dropper a little too far back and it doesn't want to go down?

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah. Well, I'm a heavy guy, that happens all the time.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Right? And so what's happening is that stanchion is trying to go down, but you're offsetting it to one side so much that it binds. Yep. And so then you have to kind of do your hip movement to get it forward so that it goes down. So this thing didn't bind. It did not. It did not. And so this corner is notorious. You're also coming in at a downhill angle, so you're weighting the front of the bike.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Did I clear this corner?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, you you did it slowly.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But that's not a that's not what I asked.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I didn't ask how fast I did. Oh, okay.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Did I clear the corner?

Host - Dane Higgins:

You made it. I rock. Yeah. Josh rocks. Josh rules. It is a tough corner. And um, it's a corner that I I actually am timid of when I'm coming into because it's very easy to flip over the bar.

Host - Josh Anderson:

When Dane says timid, that means he slows down from 20 miles an hour to 17 miles an hour.

Host - Dane Higgins:

But uh lately it's a little slower after I broke my collarbone. But um but anyway, I'm coming into this, you're also weighting the front. You're putting the brakes on so the fork dives, you're also at an angle where you're weighting the front, your whip mass is over the front. So you have a lot of opportunity for that fork to kind of pack down, which changes the geometry of the bike, and now you got to turn the while all that's while all that's happening and go around a hairpin corner, and then and then there's more, there's a rock sitting right there that you run into that the fork has to go over, otherwise it will stop you again. And so this fork hit that corner like you wouldn't believe. Like it didn't bind one bit, it didn't pack one bit, and as I'm turning, because it was so stiff and precise, it hit that next obstacle, rolled right over it with no problems, and I never I didn't slow down, you know. I I I couldn't believe it. So the the reason I'm I'm telling you this is because I ride a lot of forks. Uh, I write a lot of products and I do them aggressively and I hit hard stuff a lot. This was the one time when I was like, this is a huge game changer. Like it was definitely that instant of many people going over the bars in that place. I mean, if you sit on the hill and watch two guys, two guys with us on that ride. Yeah, yeah. It's it sends people over the bar all the time. It's a tough corner. And I will tell you, man, this fork was like, I was like blown away because I was prepared for binding, I was prepared for all that stuff. So when it didn't happen, I was so surprised. You're like, whoa! I was like, whoa! Yeah, and and it really showed the um it showed the benefits to this fork. It it went from being just a fork that is expensive and heavy and cool looking. And cool looking, yeah. I mean that's a benefit, it's cool looking.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Um, but it went from that to holy crap, I can actually see a performance difference where people would ride this fork and benefit not only in a per performance, but if you're not a performance guy, if you're not racing, yeah, it's a safer fork in that kind of terrain, you know.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Okay, so I gotta ask you. So the reason that we brought this up was uh the reason I have it on the list was it's you know, it's 750, it's in the 38 class. Yep, yeah. $750 more expensive, one pound heavier. Yep, yeah. You just told us all the great things. Yep. Vital, Pink Bike, many other entities have reported problems with this fork. Yes. So I want to talk about just like what what I've read, and then you can tell me, and there it's kind of in three categories. I'll tell you the three categories and you can tell me your thoughts. So first is seals leaking. Okay. It sounds like that was an early version and that the fox has solved that, but you tell me what you think. Bushing alignment and friction is the second topic.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Okay.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And the third is that that the axle installation is finicky, nuanced, and if done wrong, can can cause the fork to bind.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Okay. Alright. So uh first one is oil leaking. Yes. Seal leaking. Yes, seal leaking. So because it's inverted, the wipers uh are also oil seals. They have the oil sitting on them all the time. So on a traditional fork, your oil actually sits at the bottom.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yep.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And you have to seal at all times. In fact, they have foam wipers on them to try and keep them moist because they'll dry out.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And then what happens And those foam wipers kind of dump down into the bath?

Host - Dane Higgins:

No, no, they're sitting up there. They just hold the oil longer. Gotcha. It's like a like just think of uh like a uh you know a sponge. No, like a sponge, you know, a cleaning sponge. I got you, I got you. And it just holds that oil longer and so that it can kind of just slowly drain down the fork and keep everything moist. But um, when the fork compresses, uh, it pushes the oil out of the way, and there's little slots, and sometimes the newer forks will have a channel that directs the oil back up there again. So it pumps it around, which is why when you're doing a lower service, it's important that you do that. And when you service your fork, that stuff slowly kind of seeps out. You'll see little rings on your fork from time to time that are dirty. It's not really leaking, but it's sometimes pumping out a little dirt or oil with it, and over time that goes away. So when you're servicing your fork, you're trying to replenish that, yeah. Aside from a ton of other things. But um, so when you flip it upside down, now the oil is gravity is holding it right on that seal. And so you've got to have a better seal than you probably would on the 38. And so that's an issue that I believe they ran into. From what I understand, we never saw that issue with our forks in the one on the wall that we rent doesn't have any issues. One of our reps who has it on their bikes, they had that issue and they Fox took care of it right away. Um, so Fox.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So they've like changed the seal now to solve it.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I don't think it was consistent, but I think they they have a solution. And uh there's a good chance that my forks in the shop already has a solution in the issue.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But it's so if you buy a new one today, it's like chances are that issue's been resolved.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, and if you bought an older one, Fox was taking care of you as fast as possible. So you know, it is a new product and and the bike industry well and the bike industry tends to to to you know test its stuff on us. And so there is I I'm I'm accepting of that because I've been doing it so long. Yep. You know, somebody who buys a $2,000 fork and it leaks right away is gonna be less you know sympathetic because they just spent two grand on a fork. So I will tell those people have a little patience because that's not a big issue. They'll they'll fix that. Um so then the second one was second one was the bushing alignment and friction. Okay. So sometimes you come to me with stuff that I think is dumb dumb and where you got this, but I kind of feel like you're getting this from some videos where you see people So this this came from Vital, this came from Pink Bike, and this came from Claude searching the web and taking twenty different. I don't trust Claude, he's a machine.

Host - Josh Anderson:

You probably should trust Claude. I I I mean, as long as you can as long as you say double check, triple check, and you go look at the sources and you read it, yeah. It's just a quick way for me to find a bunch of different sources for information. So what I will tell you is there is a significant amount of sources out there.

Host - Dane Higgins:

You don't have to defend Claude, Clis. Because he's a machine.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I'm not I'm not defending Claude. I'm just saying there are a number of sources out there that say there's a bushing alignment and friction problem with this fork.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So I haven't seen that again. I don't have every single fork coming in. Yep. Um what I mean.

Host - Josh Anderson:

You have a data point of one at this point, right?

Host - Dane Higgins:

I do. I do. Okay. Yeah, different people riding it, but other than that, we don't have a ton out. I've I've had a few out there and I haven't got any like bad seal. Usually if I sell one of those, I'm gonna hear if the seal's leaking, you know. So um what I have seen is this trend of like some videos on social media where a service center is like showing how the fork should move with no seals in it, and like it's and then they're like, look at this was wrong, and we fixed this, you know, and I'm not a hundred percent on board with what they're doing.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Like you're not confident that they're a hundred percent that they've got a hundred percent integrity in their in their in their posts.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Well, not only that, but there is a a tolerance window when you create a product. And so uh like I did talk to Fox about some of this stuff, and uh one of my customers, it was one of my reps. So a rep is is uh you know a representative of a brand. They get to ride this stuff too, and one uh his feedback was hey, you know, it felt like it was binding, right? And so then he sent it back to Fox, and then Fox tested it, and then they said that there was no outer it was not outer tolerance. Okay, and so what that means is that it is within the parameters of manufacturing that they accept their quality control standard, and you can have one that is much smoother, and you can have one that's a little more bindy, uh, and they're within their criteria because they're looking at dinos in actual use, not some guy sliding it.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, but but I mean put your put yourself in the in the shoes of a consumer.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Uh wait, uh let me give you an example of how I actually uh so when I bought one of my tightest bikes, and I may have said this story on the on the air before.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I don't think so. Go ahead.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I went up to Phoenix where they had them and they had racks of front ends and racks of beer or rear ends. This is a carbon fiber bike, and I told them, I go, I want the lightest one, and they said, Well, uh, they're I don't know how to tell. I'm like, you got a scale? And I went and no joke, and I went and weighed each front end. I was getting a medium, and so I I took like three or four of the medium front ends and I weighed them, and then I picked out the lightest one and set it aside. They were almost a hundred grams difference in these front tracks. That's a quarter pound. Yeah. That was within their spec, and that bike was sellable, and people are gonna get those. Now, uh another example is we were selling Envy wheels, and we got in a set, and it happened to be the guy that I worked with was buying them, and he weighed them, and they were two hundred grams heavier than what Envy listed them as. And he was upset. He's like, Look, I paid a lot of money. I paid almost a half pound heavier. I I paid almost three grand for a wheel set because it was light. And now it's now it's in the fifteen hundred gram zone, your fifteen hundred dollar zone of of weights. Of price point. Yeah, exactly. And so uh but that was within tolerance. Now he sent them back, and Envy sent him another set a month later, and they ended up being only 150 grams heavier than their website. Wow. And in the meantime, they changed the weight on the website. So just telling you. Well, the reason I say this is because some people will have this visual idea of what it should be. Yeah. But the actual testing and performance isn't affected by that enough for them to So should so should someone that has two grand it's okay with a pound heavier, it's that's looking for something in the 160, 170, 38 class bike.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, two grand's not gonna break the bank for them. Should they buy a podium?

Host - Dane Higgins:

I I think I think if if you take money away, absolutely, it's an awesome fork. If you're really trying to be a weight weenie, you know, like to say you're trying to build an Enduro bike that's 27 pounds, you're not gonna put that fork on. Uh if you are on a budget and you have two kids in college and you're trying to pay for everything, you're not gonna buy that fork. If you want the best performing fork and it's 160 or 170 millimeters, and you are looking for the best feeling fox that's made for 160, 170 millimeters, that's the fork. Do you know that we haven't gotten to one question?

Host - Josh Anderson:

One of our topics yet, and we're an hour is We're gonna stick with suspension for this whole episode. Okay, yeah, because we can skip. Yeah, we'll skip everything but the suspensions.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So so in this in this review, I will tell you in if money's not an issue and weight's not your concern and you're looking for a 160, 170 fork, you like the podium. The the podium. The podium is great. And I will tell you that I've said before that I'm a DVO guy. I like that feel. So I will also put the disclaimer that I am looking for a comfortable, small bump compliant fork that doesn't dive and absorbs bumps well. If you're a jumper, uh you may not want this fork uh because you may not get it stiff enough to pop off lips and things like that. Right. So, but if you are looking for one of the smoothest, most accurate forks on the market that when you point it in a direction it goes that way, yeah, it's a pretty For your personal bike.

Host - Josh Anderson:

If you had to if you had a cue, if you had to pick between the comparable DVO product and the podium, yeah, what would you do?

Host - Dane Higgins:

If they were both being given to me.

Host - Josh Anderson:

No, no, no. Let's let's say you gotta buy them. You gotta spend your money.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I gotta tell you, once you put money in, I'm I'm gonna buy the DVO. Okay. I did. Uh that bike now has a DVO on it. Yeah. Because we're DVO product uh Onyx. SL. Um, and so uh that podium we rent. So that's one of the things that I I gotta tell you that I think more dealers need to do is that podium changed my mind when I wrote it. It's a premium product. Yeah, but when I wrote it, I could see the benefit and the money started to melt away. Uh all of a sudden I'm like, eh.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So slightly better than the DVO from a performance perspective, but if you were paying spending your own hard-earned cash, you would you would go with the DVO over the or the podium.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, I I think when when you put money, I couldn't say that that fork did almost double what the DVO costs. And and so that was tougher.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Okay. All right, let's stick with the suspension theme. We'll we'll we'll cover a couple more things and then we'll close it out.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Okay.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Okay, so I ran I I don't know how, I randomly ran into these products that are as best I can tell, no major bike brand carries them. But the problem they were trying to solve with these products is if you if you if you have a fork and you've cut the the steer too short, if you've cut the steer too short, there are some products available on Amazon that can extend your steering tube. So and it's got like a compression thing and you squeeze it in and it looks pretty sweet. Okay. So here's my question. If your fork steer tube is cut too short for the bike that you're trying to put that fork on, and you're you're the w you know, you're the world's greatest suspension expert, or or one of them, I believe. Yeah. I honestly believe that. What can I do? Am I fucked?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Or is there something else I can do? Okay, so I'm gonna try not to give you snarky answers.

Host - Josh Anderson:

No, give me snarky answers. That's the same.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So the snarky answers, if you bought something off Amazon, you're just I mean, no, no, no. I'm just saying you have good life interesting.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I've got a Fox 38 factory, and the steer tube is cut a half inch shorter or or or whatever that is in millimeters, shorter than I need. Am I Fox? Do I have to buy a new Fox 38 or is there a solution?

Host - Dane Higgins:

So so the real solution, non-snarky, is that you can buy a new CSU, that's a crown steer upper, and that is the gold stanchions, if it's a Fox factory. Yep. Uh the crown that holds those, and then the steer tube. How much is that? Uh don't quote me, around three to three fifty.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Okay. So on a on a twelve hundred and fifty dollar fork, I can spend three hundred and fifty bucks and fix that problem.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And that does happen, by the way. Uh somebody will buy a new bike, right? But they've just upgraded like last year their fork and they're like, okay, I want to put this fork on that bike. Um we see it a lot less lately. I don't know why. I think it's because the steer tubes got smaller. Um, so uh you know, at one point the steer tubes were longer and it was really harder to to find the right length. Um but yeah, the the big thing that I see when that happens is somebody has bought uh like a used fork on on mine. Yeah, and then they get it home to go put it in and then it doesn't.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So you can't replace the steer tube. You have to replace the whole stanchion.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So there are some companies that claim that they can replace the steer tube.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Um What's your experience? What's your what's your perspective?

Host - Dane Higgins:

My perspective is I have you done it in the States. I I am in a place where I could lose my whole livelihood if that steer tube fails. And everything I know about the manufacturing of the way those are made, you can't make that interface good enough. And so if you replace the steer tube, there are companies that do this, they'll push the old steer tube out and put in a new one, and they will tell you that it's safe. And they may believe that. They are small companies and they're doing something that none of the manufacturers will do. Uh, because those big manufacturers, RockShock, DVO, Fox, uh, Ollens, all these companies, they don't believe that that will be a strong enough interface, and you are gonna not only run into like annoying things.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Okay, so don't try to don't try to your perspective is don't try to put a new steer tube. There's a guy who and you have no do you have any experience with these extenders that go in and press?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Very bad.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Um don't do that stuff. Jane's look at me like, why are you asking me this question, you dumbass?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Well, I'll I'll tell you that like there's a lot of things to get more upright. And we have some customers that are elderly and they want to be more upright, and they're gonna ride the loop which is paved and there's no grades. Yeah, that's not what we're talking about here. Yeah. Um if you're riding a mountain bike that uh if you're riding a Fox 38 and you're riding on the loop and never going off-road, then you're an idiot. Well, yeah, it's not the right fork, but if you're using a Fox 38 how it should be, there is so much uh stress on that part of that fork. There is so much stress.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Do it the right way, spend 350 bucks and replace the.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Did you know that the Fox 38 is actually oval inside the steer tube?

Host - Josh Anderson:

I did not know that. I'm trying to figure out how the star nut fits in there if it's overtube.

Host - Dane Higgins:

It still works in the top a little bit, but it gets in the meat of it, it's oval. So, like for instance, uh we found this out. One, they told us, but two, uh, some of the tools that you can put up inside uh steer tubes won't fit on 38 sometimes because of the oval. Okay. And um, what they did was they're trying to reduce weight, but they're trying to increase strength. Yeah. And so if you've known uh back in the day, we used to ride Thompson seatposts. Yeah, they were the same.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And with the the thick by the way, Thompson seat post, still good seatposts.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Awesome.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Just not droppers, but still good. Yeah, I don't know. Do they have a dropper? I think they do.

Host - Dane Higgins:

They do, but trust me, nobody rides it.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Um, Thompson's gonna kick our ass now.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, but uh I love you should see some of their bars, they're really nice. They're doing Thai, like they make cool stuff, but their old seat posts were oval also, and the thick part would be at the front and the back, so that as you're stressing it forward climbing or or descending, it was much stronger, but that's how they got rid of it. And they're a machine company, so they're machining that out of aluminum, so they had to machine one circular thing that goes all the way down that tube, and then they had to go machine it again a little bit. I mean, that's talent, you know. Uh if you've ever had to machine anything, yeah. And then they bend them. Have you seen the bend twist?

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

They're crazy. So, anyway, sorry, tangent. Um, yeah, there's no safe way to do that. There's no safe way. In fact, some of the companies will actually have a limit on how many spacers under your stem you're supposed to have.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I'm running into that right now. And so that's why I have an SQ Labs dryzer gravel bar over there, because really, if you think about it, you're 220 pounds or whatever. I'm 250 pounds, but go ahead. But yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I love thank you for taking 30 pounds off my frame.

Host - Dane Higgins:

If you put all of your weight on those bars and if you happen to put all of your weight on one side, I'm gonna fuck it up. You're gonna strip that thing right out of there. Yeah. And it's just you don't want to mess around with that part of the bike. If you want to go blingy or make things different, or you know, like people will buy like uh the handlebar, like super uber light one and put it on, but they got it on AliExpress. That's not smart.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, don't buy like I think this is a general recommendation that the Mountain Cog Podcast would make.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Do not buy except for maybe valve stem caps. Yeah, like you know, do not buy bike products on AliExpress.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Well, and and and there's some that are really, really important. Like I even when I get a scratch on my carbon handlebar, I will usually retire that bar. Yeah. Now I'll let my kids ride it.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But uh because they weigh like 40 pounds.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And that's exactly right. And I I say that jokingly, but I'm not joking. Like I am considering my weight on that thing in the middle.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And Daneways, Daneways, what do you weigh?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Uh I I don't talk about that. That's we don't talk about that right now. It's almost Thanksgiving. It's the holidays.

Host - Josh Anderson:

He's gonna weigh more in a week than he does today.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I weigh differently after I go to the bathroom. So like it's not polite to ask a gentleman his weight. It is polite to ask a gentleman his weight. Gentlemen don't care. The the the moral is like I those steer extensions are a bad idea. It's uh no matter what company that's slinging them says, yeah, if if you if you break your face or worse, die because that thing fails, it's not worth it. Yeah. And and people will say that. Like if they come to me and they're like, hey, this doesn't fit and I need a longer steer tube, um, they will try and justify through money or whatever, uh, those things 20 bucks for a extender. And I just have to remind them that, dude, if you hit a drop on this thing and it fails, you are face planning.

Host - Josh Anderson:

That 400 bucks that you're 350 bucks it would have spent. It is not worth it. What's your deductible for your insurance?

Host - Dane Higgins:

There's sometimes, you know, like you don't have to get the hundred and twenty dollar tire. You can go get the brand X sixty, eighty dollar colored tire like uh Babyfoot rides. Babyfoot. So um you can do that, and and it's not gonna be as critical, but man, don't mess with your handlebars, don't with mess with your stem, and definitely don't mess with their stewardship.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I just I'm gonna go in a rabbit hole real quick. Just we've talked about it before. We had them on the podcast. I I didn't really know much about Vittoria. I am I will not buy a tire that's not Victoria right now.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I you know you can tell why I'm like kind of fanatic. Now, again, I try not to talk people out of Maxis because they make a good product, and there's you know, I I always have to remember that my experiences aren't everybody's experiences, but yeah, I'm I'm kind of there with you.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Dude, like every it's they're just fucking awesome.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Now, if you look at my garage, there's quite a few Maxis on bikes in there, but I eventually I I gotta get rid of them. They keep coming on the bikes I buy. I wish I wish the bikes I was buying had the Vittoria's, I wouldn't have to deal with that. So, at you know, I they're a good tire. There's nothing wrong with Maxis. And if you're riding Maxis, don't feel bad. But I if you haven't given Vittoria a try next time you're shopping, I would definitely give them a shot.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Do it for sure. Okay, listen, I know that we promised we would talk about SAG, and I've got 20 other topics to talk about here. We're an hour and 15 minutes in, I'm gonna cut it.

Host - Dane Higgins:

All right, I'm I'm okay with that. And I hope hopefully everybody liked this. I was long-winded on the podium and I politics.

Host - Josh Anderson:

It's an interesting thing. I wanted to get your perspective. Yeah. Mr. Dane, do you have any final thoughts for our listeners?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Uh, you know, it's easy for me to sit back and tell people to just spend more money on their stuff, and you really not everybody can do that. And so if you have to cut corners, there's nothing wrong with that. But there's smart ways to do it. Don't cut it on a fork steer extender. Yeah. There is definitely ways that you can kind of cut it.

Host - Josh Anderson:

If you need to cut corners and you're not sure how to do it, send us an email. Yeah, be safe. Send us a note.

Host - Dane Higgins:

We'll advise you on this is good or not. I love value and I love getting people on bikes, and and I don't want to see them hurt. So that's serious. That's not funny either. It's not funny, no. Why are you laughing?

Host - Josh Anderson:

I'm sorry, man. That's what I do. I laugh. We appreciate you guys. Thank you for listening. Have a great day. Happy Thanksgiving. Yes, it's yeah, it'll be after Thanksgiving when we publish this year. For us, it's tomorrow. It's tomorrow. Yeah. Happy Thanksgiving.

Head Shot

Dane "Suspension Guru" Higgins

Host
Head Shot

Josh "Magellan" Anderson

Host