Mountain Cog

117 - Bike Shop Secrets: Norco Optic & Outbound reviews plus info on tires, shocks, seat posts, and bells.

• Josh Anderson & Dane Higgins • Episode 117

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Mountain bike enthusiasts get real-world product testing results in this Bike Shop Secrets episode featuring comprehensive reviews of the Norco Optic and Outbound bike lights. Dane provides an 8-month review of his Norco Optic, a unique 125mm travel bike with high pivot suspension design featuring a rearward axle path and idler pulley system. He explains how this unconventional setup delivers exceptional smoothness on technical, rocky terrain while maintaining pedaling efficiency. Josh shares his year-long experience with Outbound Lights' Trail Evo and Hangover models, discussing light quality, durability, mounting systems, and why the cutoff design matters for technical riding.

This episode also serves as your go-to guide for a few mountain bike maintenance and setup questions. Josh and Dane break down the critical importance of tire pressure calibration, revealing why you should always use the same pump and consider a digital gauge for consistency. They tackle suspension troubleshooting, explaining whether cold weather affects shock performance and how to identify normal air loss versus actual leaks. The conversation covers setback seatpost compatibility with modern frames, dropper post limitations, tire wear patterns specific to rocky terrain, and the growing importance of trail bells for hiker safety on multi-use trails.

Norco Optic: https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/trail/optic/

Outbound Lights: https://www.outboundlighting.com/

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Host - Josh Anderson:

Hey buddy, how you doing? Good. I'm I'm I'm good.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah. I'm on drugs.

Host - Josh Anderson:

You're on drugs? Yeah. Okay, just for the record. It's just you're on ibuprofen.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But you'd be surprised how good I feel with just ibuprofen. The normal dosage of ibuprofen, not like uh ibuprofen with uh, you know, fentanyl or in like that, right?

Host - Dane Higgins:

I know, but I totally relate to the I love drugs, you know. It's just I love over the counter stuff stuff doesn't hurt anymore.

Host - Josh Anderson:

It is I love over-the-counter mild pain management drugs. That's it. Um all right, so I I've noticed, I don't know if you've noticed this, um, kind of like Elon's back into the Elon Musk, he's back into the news in a positive way. Okay. He's no longer best friends with Trump or whatever, I think. I don't know, who knows? Whatever. Yeah. We're not a political podcast, and yeah, we like we love everybody's opinion, so don't care. Yeah. But uh regardless, he's in the news a lot, and space is like a big thing and SpaceX, and there's this, you know, space space interceptor and all this crazy space stuff going on. I got a question for you related to space. It's just been on my mind. Like space has been on my mind. Like oh shit, I fucked it up.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Are you buffering?

Host - Josh Anderson:

What's going on? All right, I got it, I got it. I'm back. I was totally buffering for like 15 seconds, like right? I've been there. Yes, yes, yes, yes. How do you organize a space party? Oh god. Uh man.

Host - Dane Higgins:

How do you organize a space party? Uh you'd think I'd heard these, but I I have no idea. Ready for the punchline? Yes. You plan it. So late.

Dig it man:

So that's When you dig it!

Host - Dane Higgins:

You know that that joke is uh it reminds me like a baseball. And it's getting closer and closer, and then it hit me.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So I've been reading through our reviews, and it's been a minute since I've got on Spotify and read through our reviews. There's quite a few out there, actually. You should you should take some time to read them. But one of the guys, one of the reviews is like, it's been 12 minutes. You have not said a damn thing about bikes. Why are you wasting all of our time?

Host - Dane Higgins:

I don't know who that is, but I love them.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Thank you for your feedback, kind sir, if you uh are still there. And some of some people, I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of love, lots and lots of love. Yeah, but man, some people really hate us. Really? Damn, dude. I thought we were killing it. Yeah, don't no.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I mean, you can't you there's always gonna be the trolls. That's like how it goes. That's totally cool. Sometimes that can be the most fun and the entertaining. We should read those one time. Read them out loud.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Read them on the podcast. Totally. Yeah, yeah. Maybe we'll do that. I think that'd be fun. Um, there's so many positive ones, though. I would feel a little like it's kind of an egotistical. Maybe we just read the bad ones. That's why you read the bad ones. Just read the bad ones. Yes, that I could do. Just be a punching bag, you know.

Host - Dane Higgins:

There's nothing wrong with that.

Dig it man:

Yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I have to, did I tell you I just have to throw out a couple words, Maxis, trek, bike, pedals, and flow. That way, that way we're talking about bikes. I don't want to we were getting close to 12 minutes. No, we're only three minutes in. Oh, okay.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But that's got me like looking at the list over here. Like, we've got to stop bullshitting and actually get to the content.

Host - Dane Higgins:

What are we doing bike shop secrets? What are we doing?

Host - Josh Anderson:

Bike shop secrets. We got a couple products. Um, you know, we did this past weekend, we did uh event here in Tucson um that the Sonoran Desert Mountain Bike Cliffs put on called the Poker Ride. Yep, we this is the second time we've talked about it because we did it last year. Oh, did we talk about it? Yeah, well, it was actually earlier this year because I've done two of them this year. Oh, yeah. It was in the spring. Dane and I did a really cool Mountain Cog slash guru. Actually, it was really just a guru stop, and then Mountain Cog came in and like Oh, it was both of us. We partnered.

Host - Dane Higgins:

But we did it um with a theme, yeah, which was really fun, like really fun. Like, and everybody got it. It was the dude, it was uh the big Lebowski. Big Lubowski. Yeah, and that was pretty fun. Uh dressed up as the dude, and we're out there, you're making uh 120 uh white Russians, white Russians, or or Caucasians as he calls it.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, it's a lot of white Russians. I I did not think we'd go through that many. I we could have gone through I think another 30 or 40 if I'd had enough alcohol in cups.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So you know I don't drink, but so it kind of blows my mind that we're sitting out there, and this is at like eight in the morning, nine in the morning. Yeah, the amount of people they're like, yeah, I'll have a white rush like on a mountain bike ride.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I just started at first I was just making them as people came up. Yeah, and then I realized this is not gonna work. So then I started making them like eight drinks at a time. You gotta stage them like a like a in-and-out burger. You gotta have those burgers ready. Between groups, I would mix the Kalu and vodka together because that's a staple platform. Yeah. And then I would wait till they came up to put the cream in, right? And I just add the cream at the last minute and keep that in the cooler.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And that we had and we had Oreos. And I gotta tell you, there was only like two or three people that actually dunked the Oreos in the White Russians. In the White Russians, which I thought was like a no-brainer, really, you know.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Interesting thing, I'm doing dry December right now, just to kind of you know let my liver heal or whatever. Whatever. Um and so it was weird making 120 white Russians, which is a drink that I enjoy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not partaking at all. Yeah, yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I yeah. I, you know, uh I love that event. I think last time we talked about it, we I think that's the future. I I think we I don't not necessarily the future like it'll replace races, but I think we need more of those events. And I was trying to think of what other events. So there's uh Grand Fondo that they did, there's um there's uh scavenger hunts that sometimes happen. There's uh, you know, somebody was telling me that um yeah, um the tour, El Tour de Tucson, which is our big road ride, right, is is kind of like that. It's not really a real race for many. It depends on 10%.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Like 10% of the people are racing. I mean, there's 20,000 people, I think. 20,000 people that come out to it, so 10% are racing, yeah, 90% are just out there to have fun.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, and I think that's I think that's what people are really craving. Like I love bike racing and I like going to races, but they keep seeming to shrink. And I think having a fun aspect where you're not really pressured to be an athlete or or or do anything, but like a costume, you know, because everybody can participate, you know.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Well, if you're out in the world and you are working with a trail advocacy group and you want to hear more about the poker ride that we did here in Tucson, I think. Or if you've got one in your area that is kind of like this concept that's getting traction and everybody's yeah, yeah, let us know if you've got some cool like non-race events and we we'd love to learn from you.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And then also, um, if you want to learn about our poker ride, I can I can tell you the logistics and how we did it and all that stuff, and maybe that's something you could duplicate in your area. Yeah, it gets wide, wide uh attendance. Now, I will tell you that we do have an amazing community of bike shops and bicycle-related um organizations that donate a ton of product that is raffled off and given away. Yeah, and they're serious products. Yeah. The Mountain Cog Podcast and Dane from Guru or Guru Bikes donated a pivot switchblade frame as an example, just to put it like, and then there was a full set of outbound lights. We're gonna talk about outbound lights. There's a set of we a couple sets of wheels, yeah. And then it just went from there all the way down. So um lots and lots of gifts. So I think part of the draw is like you, you there's a good chance you can win something. Yeah, we bring out beer, uh, somebody brings out beer. I don't think there's a permit for it, but somebody brings out beer. Yeah, it's not sold or anything. Yeah, it's not sold. It's just like you can you can bring your own beer, I guess, is the book to say it. Yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

If if there happens to be a big cooler full of beer that says take one.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Anyways, I don't even know why we were talking about that, but um Well, um, so we were gonna talk about a little bit of product review. Yeah, we got two products. Oh, well, that this is why. At the so we had put out the call that says, Hey, do you want us to do these some like a little bit of product reviews or not? And I think the written feedback, this is part of why I went and read the Spotify comments, was like there was no negative, there was a there was a handful of positive and no negative. Okay. No one said no, don't do it. Yeah. Some people said do it. And then we've also had some people come up to us and a couple people came up to our stop at the poker ride and said, Hey, now Tucson's a small percentage of our audience actually. I just looked at it, it's just under 10% of our audience. Yes, yeah. Um, it's a large number of people, and so it's it's it's but you know, it's not a majority of our audience. Yeah. Um, but we heard this weekend as well. Some people say, Hey, we I like the product reviews, keep doing them. So here we go.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Okay, so um at that ride at the poker ride, we we had to staff a tent so we couldn't ride. So after the event, after all the awards and everything, uh my daughter was there and and Josh and I went on a ride, and I got to ride my uh Norco Optics. So I wanted to talk about that because uh we did an episode, I don't remember which episode, um, where we talked to Norco and I had just bought it and I'd done maybe one ride on it, and we kind of went through the way um it's built and kind of its purpose and things like that. And I didn't really have time on it, and uh now I've got a lot more time.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So Yeah, we actually had that bike, I think, with us in the room.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, and it was behind us, and we were referencing it during the episode. Because we were on a Zoom call, even though everybody uh with us is listening on that. The uh the guys from Norco could actually see it. They could see it, yep. Um and so uh I've just got a little bit more of a long-term review. It is one of my favorite bikes. Um it is uh so if you listen to the episode, we kind of talk about how it's kind of a weird bike. It's a high pivot bike, which is a new kind of uh it's not new concept as in like this year. It's new concept in the last like five to ten years, which if you're as old as I am is not that long ago. But uh but but the idea is to bring the pivot up higher, which uh helps the rear wheel axle take a rearward path, which is a little smoother off or over rougher bumps. Uh and then there's a lot of drawbacks to that. In the olden days, we used to have that design on like a Santa Cruz Superlight and some other bikes. And when the rear went the the rear went backwards uh through its travel, if you pedaled the chain would pull it back and you'd get this crazy like inchworm like pedal-induced bobbing. And so what Norco did was they ran a pulley up over the pivot that uh kind of isolates the uh the uh pedal feedback from the wheel. So when you pedal this thing, it is there's there's no bob. Like it's it feels a hundred percent efficient.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Uh it's like you're in a hard tail or something.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Uh yeah. I mean you still have the movement over the rocks that that that isn't quite a hard tail.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But the suspension is designed to take care of the fact.

Host - Dane Higgins:

You don't feel like the suspension is pulling or tugging your legs, and it doesn't feel like you're having to overpower in order to compensate. Like, you know, a lot of the drag or or inefficiency is what a lot of people would say. So um it doesn't have that. And I noticed it right away and I was pretty uh pretty surprised. Most of these high pivots are typically on downhill bikes, bigger travel, big, big travel bikes because they really want the smoothest, fastest uh suspension. And this bike is a 125 millimeter rear travel bike. So um so not typically like that. So it's been kind of an oddball for Norco.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Uh so Dane, we put out episode 98 in April of this year. Yeah. Uh technical look at Norco's mountain bike design with uh with Colin and Kirk. Yeah. And so you had just gotten that bike. Yep, so maybe maybe March or late March. Yeah. So you've been on that bike for like eight months.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah. Yeah. And so like that's a loose term.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Well, you you've ridden it.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I have a lot of bikes, and so they get rotated, and so it it it that sounds like a long time.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But you've ridden it a dozen times or so, probably in the last eight months. Yeah. And uh what like what are your thoughts?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Like well, so this rearward rearward wheel path allows the wheel to hit a square edge bump and kind of move backwards as you're moving forward, which keeps your momentum going. And so you get this kind of really cool, smooth feel, really smooth. And then when you go to pedal, especially in our terrain, which is super rocky, yeah, really square edge, when you go to pedal, you're not having the bike yank you backwards uh when you're hitting these things, and then when you're pedaling, you're not stopping that suspension from moving. So it's probably the smoothest bike uh that I have. Like, I mean, I would put it on par with like being as smooth and comfortable as my downhill bike, uh, but it's a 125mm travel bike, and so it's it's pretty amazing. So this particular one has a vivid rear shock, which is pretty awesome. Rock shock? Yep, rock shock. It's a high volume can. Um, it's a pretty new design uh or redesigned from the old one. And uh the cool thing about the vivid is they've in the rear shock they've put three different kinds of uh I don't know what to call it. Like it's not valving, but that it has three different things that allow you to tune the suspension in three stages of the shock. So the first one is they call it a countermeasure spring. And so inside that shock, when the shock is extended, there's a spring that's kind of making the small bump a lot more supple. So the first 20% of that that travel in that shock is much more supple than a lot of other ones. It doesn't have that stiction like a lot do. And that countermeasure spring is just a steel spring in there that helps with that. Uh the second is the valving. The valving really does most of its work in the middle of the shock, and so you can control that through your high speed and low speed adjustments, which is really nice. You can do that with a rebound, and so you can kind of control the middle feel. So you get this supple, but then you can have the valving a little on the firm side so that you don't have this this wallow or no mid-stroke support.

Dig it man:

Right.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And then it has a hydraulic bottom out, and so you can tune the end of the stroke to where you can kind of adjust that hydraulic so that when you're getting to the end, it's less harsh. And so it was just cool. It's a really cool shock that you can fine-tune in three different uh um I guess three different movements of its travel. Yeah, I guess. Three different places in your travel, yeah. The top and the middle and the bottom. Yeah, you it's it's a cool concept. So that coupled with that suspension design, the bike is just smooth. In fact, I've got a pike on the front, and it's the pike with the uh ultimate with the buttercups, which is what we put in your Zeb.

Dig it man:

Yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And uh so it has the newer damper, high speed and low speed. It's got these buttercups, which are just amazing. We've talked about them before. Yeah, and um, I can't get that fork to be as supple as the back end of the bike.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So um so for our listeners, if we go back, I've talked a few times about that Zeb and how much I love, especially with the new 3.1 and the buttercups in it. And yeah, I I couldn't feel like it feels so amazing.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And I had it on my e-bike, which is heavy, it's like it's like the thing's approaching 60 pounds.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So I was like, is it just the weight of this e-bike that's making this fork feel so good? And so I was gonna buy one, I was gonna buy one, I was gonna buy one. I actually won one. Yep. And so I've got no. So uh shout out to the to the Verde Valley uh cycling coalition. But um but I won one and uh put that on my Epic. So it's a downcountry bike, like 130, 120. Yep. And my God, it is just as good as the Zabba.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, I'm telling you, I Oh my God. It's the the the buttercups and that damper do such a good job. Um so that as smooth as that pike is, it's not as smooth as the Norco. The Norco just outshines it.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I'm I'm trying to figure out not as smooth as that vivid on the back of the Norco's. Yeah. You're talking about the rear shock.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, the not just the rear shock, but the whole suspension design. Okay. When you hit a square edge bump on a bike, you get kind of this abruptness. So I'm used to horse links with the Rocky Mountains.

Dig it man:

Yep.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And the idea is that your um wheel path goes vertical, it goes straight up and down, and and that's kind of been seen as very efficient. So it it's not moving away from the cranks, so you don't have pedal-induced uh issues, you don't have to worry about as much brake jack, and you get a really efficient movement so that no matter where you're in travel, if you start pedaling, you don't have the the suspension uh either diminished or you know overdone by the the pedaling. And um this this Norco design is using a design that does not do that, but the because they have an idler that kind of separates the chain from the suspension, the rearward path is I feel like superior. Uh I feel like it would be the number one number one way that you would design a bike to go over these square edge bumps. It's just so much.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Isn't that kind of also the design that Revel's using? No. With the canfield balance point, isn't that their thing? Is it it's got a rear world? We'll have to go dive into that. I want to have canfield, I want to have canfield andor revel on the podcast, so we'll dive into that. But I I thought I understood.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So the idea in most suspension designs is they're kind of trying to be on a vertical side. Uh when you have a rear world, rearward movement in that in that wheel, it's pretty horrible if you don't have an idler on the bike. And so you'll see bikes like Trek Slash and you'll see um Norco a bunch of bikes in their line, the site and the um man, there's another one. I'm I'm failing as a Norco dealer. Um I think um uh Forbidden uh bikes have um there's a lot of bikes with this design. Commensal, which is one of the ones that's made it the most.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Oh, we gotta we gotta do a correction. Uh we said in the last episode, like the strategy one we did with on DTC, we said that can or that a comensal was uh was a American brand. No.

Host - Dane Higgins:

It's not yeah, it's French, yeah. Okay. I think in that episode, you gotta go check. I think I said I thought it was French.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So Canfield CBF suspension features a rearward axle path during the initial and mid-stroke of travel.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, but it's really subtle and then it goes forward. Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And so we'll we'll dive into that in a later episode because I'm we don't gotta go into it again.

Host - Dane Higgins:

My next bike's gonna be a revel. The the big thing is the feel difference. Because I've I've ridden uh the revels and I've really the same. No, no. The revels feel a lot more like a VPP or a um a DW. They're they're achieving similar things just like the horse links are. Yeah. Um they don't really have this exaggerated kind of smoothness that the Norco does. The Norco is by far one of the smoothest. And so in this particular trail that this event was at is so square edge and so bumpy. It is such a fun bike to ride. And um, I would say the only drawback is with that idler, you have a little bit extra mechanism on the bike. Yeah. And so you get a little bit more static weight.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And so static weight and a little drag because you got another uh wheel that it's going through, or you don't feel it?

Host - Dane Higgins:

I didn't notice that because I feel pretty spritely, you know, although in this instance I rode without a shifter battery, and so I had to ride it as a single speed, and uh I that will wipe me out. Um but uh in general when I've been riding that bike with working gears, uh it's I don't feel worn out. You know, I feel like I have plenty of energy at the top of the hill, and and then when I go down, I can go as fast as I want. Yeah. So are you selling a lot of those Norcos? Uh this particular bike has been harder to sell. Um just because it's a idler pulley with a lower travel. It looks like a downhill bike, but it's 125 in the rear. I've got mine at 140, 125, and then overstroked. So I think it's at 130 now. I I gotta do the calculations, but um, but it is uh it is just kind kinda in a weird space. It's like a it's like a Subaru, you know, um legacy with monster truck wheels. Like it just doesn't look right, you know. And so when people see it, they don't realize how much fun it is and how appropriate a bike it is actually for the way we ride, 'cause these square edge bumps are really abrupt. Yeah you know, and they can yank you quite a bit. And when you get that, you just get an uh like a a really beat up feel after the ride. And this bike doesn't do that.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So interesting.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, it's a it's a it's a really cool design. And I think on the bigger travel bikes, it's way more almost expected now. Like the these idler bikes are becoming more and more popular. Even the new pivot downhill bike has it. And uh isolating that rear end, letting the rear end move over obstacles faster so that your momentum and isn't lost. You know, I mean think about it, if you were just running into a brick wall, yeah, you're gonna lose momentum. And and if that wheel is running into a brick wall, but if that get out of the way, if if it gets out of the way, you just can keep your speed.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So very cool.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So that's the Norco Review, uh, Norco Optic.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Finds a medium. And you would recommend it. Yeah, I would. It's uh a little on the long side, it's an S3, so they've gone to the number sizing. Yeah, like specialized? Yeah, like a few companies. Their um reach is a little on the long side for me, even though I'm long torso. Yeah. Um, but they were they kept trying to tell me I'd be a S2 because of the reach that my Rocky had.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, and your manhood would not allow you to buy a small bike.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I I wrote I wrote a small and I look like a circus bear on that thing.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, I remember you trying that out.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, and uh it's it's tricky. It's uh that bike and and our conversation in the last episode with Norco, we kind of dived in a little bit with uh reach and how it's become the metric for a lot of people, but it's not really Yeah, we got we got nerdy on that.

Host - Josh Anderson:

It's not a great metric, yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So I we need to one of many. We need to get an uh get a podcast with a geometry person, like somebody who's doing the geometry on the bikes. Okay. Uh and not, you know, like we've done faction and we've done um bear. Yep and bear innovation. Yeah, and just kind of get into how reach isn't uh necessarily because everybody's talking in reach terms. Even when I watch the YouTube videos and all the the the um YouTube reviews and stuff, they really just dive super deep into that, but they totally if you're if you're only talking about reach, it's really, really important if you're only standing. Yeah. As soon as you sit on the bike and pedal, it's there's other numbers that are really important.

Host - Josh Anderson:

It's uh it's interesting. One of the things that I'm gonna try today or experiment with is uh there's a couple parts of like mountain biking, mountain bike setup and then mountain bike geometry that are is like really confusing.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And so and they're complex. And so I thought it would be cool if we um take like one variable at a time and kind of deep dive on it. And so I was gonna start with suspension. So not not right now, but later on in this podcast, I'm gonna get into like one aspect of setting up your suspension. And I thought like every podcast that we do, one of these bike shop secret ones, we can dive deeper into like rebound, high speed, low speed, compression, sag, you know, whatever. Absolutely. Uh maybe we could do the same thing with geometry. Yeah, that'd be nice. Yeah. And once we get through the once we get through all of the uh suspension setup stuff, we can switch over and start doing like one, like we'll do reach, we'll do whatever, all the different things. Uh my product. Yeah, what's your product? Okay, so uh we had interestingly, uh also a long-term review uh from someone that we've had on the podcast. But and and just for our listeners, just to remember, um, we don't get paid for any of this stuff. No one's paying us. We're not getting it. I paid for my NORCO. They don't give it to me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I paid and so I'm gonna talk about outbound lights. And I paid for my outbound lights. We had them on the podcast, great podcast. Um I originally started with just the Trail Evo, which is the one that goes on the front of your handlebars. Yep. Uh it's about 245 bucks. It was fantastic, just loved it. Yeah. Recently, Outbound doesn't do sales except for one time of year. Yep. Over uh Black Friday. Yep. And so I picked up uh the hangover, uh-huh, which is they have two different they have the portal and the hangover, which are helmet. I think the portal's like more powerful or something.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I got the hangover.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I think the hangover, I don't quote me, because I should know this stuff because we sell them. Yeah. I think the hangover has more of a cutoff, whereas a portal will um look down. Okay, that could be.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah. That could be as far as like the the direction of the beam you're talking about. Yeah. So I I got the hangover, 135 bucks, uh, added that to the to the system, so now I've got an Evo and a hangover. And when I first got it, well, so first of all, like they're just they just perform amazingly. Yep. I use them once a week. I I have a Tuesday night uh night ride that I do with the boys. You know, we're usually using the lights somewhere around two hours, two and a half hours. Um never had one like die, crashed. We had a guy last night go over the handlebars, landed on the light, it survived. Nice. And then uh all most of the guys out there that ride with us have them, and there's all these stories that they were telling about the amazing like warranty.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, customer service is the best thing. Yeah. Because um they have pretty standard warranties, but there's a lot of stories about them taking going beyond the warranty, just just being awesome. Just great customer service. Great customer service. So that you know, they're not always calling it a warranty. It's we used to call it goodwill, you know, when a company takes care of you, because they don't want to set the standard that this is how it always is. Right. They just want to let you know they appreciate you.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But the reason I want to so so I think it's well established that these are great lights, and I think it's well established they have amazing customer service.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

There was something there's a couple things that were that kind of shook me or surprised me when I got the products. And the first was the b the bike lights fit a little loose in the mounts. They they sh they they move a tiny bit.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Okay.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And I checked all the other guys' lights to make sure it wasn't just mine.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And then the helmet one, you like stick on with tape. Okay. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, this is janky as fuck. Yeah. These things are gonna fall off. Like I was like, I had super low expectations. Uh I've been riding with I've been riding them for at least six months, once a week, and they work great.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

The sticky thing never came off. Everybody says the same thing, they all work awesome. And so I've got this hypothesis that, like, and I don't know if you know this, I I've used this analogy before, but like Russian military equipment and American military equipment.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Okay.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So like Russian military equipment is made kind of loosey-goosey. Uh-huh. You can take an AK-47 and jump it into a swamp, uh-huh, leave it there for six months, pull it out, rinse it off, stick a magazine in it, and it will fire.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Okay.

Host - Josh Anderson:

All right. If you get three specks of dirt in an AR an American AR-15, yeah, the thing jams up and will never work again. And so like I have no idea. Yeah, so so like there's something about that Russian design that they just like the tolerances are not super tight, but like everything works together and it's made to kind of have a little bit of play.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

That's how I feel about like at least the mounts on these lights. Now the lights themselves are totally solid and awesome.

Host - Dane Higgins:

They have a cam. So you push that cam down and push that cam down to pull it out. No, no, you push it.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I thought you pushed it down to tighten it. Well, maybe you're supposed to tighten it, but not one guy on my No, I don't think so. It's it's just a release valve. It's just a release. Because you put it in at an angle. Put it in an angle, snaps in. Snaps in, but I thought. And then you just push that little lever when you want to take it out, and it pulls that that pin back. We'll have to take a look at it. I don't want I don't want to confuse our listeners right now. Yeah, yeah. But there it is uh, at least on the on the bike mounted one, there's no way to tighten it once it's on. I mean you tighten the mount actually on the bar. There's no way to tighten the light inside the well, I I guess I should put it out there. I don't know of one, can't find one. There's not a lot of moving parts on this thing.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, look at yours. I don't feel like mine's loose, but the stick-on is definitely um but you know if I I can't remember if theirs is name brand, but it's usually got a red label. 3M. 3M, okay. That stuff is insanely strong. Uh I've used it for other things, and it is crazy uh how strong it is. The only thing that I don't like is not all my helmets have the same contour, so I don't they've fixed that now. Okay.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And they came it came mine, we might just got mine. It came with two different um stickers. Okay. One that's kind of like the normal one that you had forever, and then one that's split in the middle with like two stickers, so that you can kind of mold it to whatever contour you have. Yeah. So I still have that old one. If you want if you want it, I can give it to you and you can.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, that the other thing is if I switch helmets, I need to get more of that. Which we actually stop at stock at the shop.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And it's it's not an ex- I can't imagine it's an expensive part, it's just a little piece of plastic with a metal in it. No, anyways, uh I cannot say enough good things about those outbound lights and um and the customer service, uh uh all these stories of how great it was, and they've performed uh amazingly. So I think they're a little bit more expensive than like the competitors.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, I I so if I can say something about them, because I'm using them too. Um the uh I've used uh lights in motion and um those are the two big ones. If you I think light in motion went out of business. They did. Um if you or yeah, I think they did. Uh if you want to get Tom upset at Outbound, you can talk about Magic Shine. We did that in the podcast remember? So it's just that's a good trigger for him. But uh those I've I've ridden a lot of lights, and uh I went through the this uh the halogen bulbs. Oh back in the day. Back in the day. HID no, then then to HID, yeah. Which were the blue ones, and we were so excited because there were you could tell, we'd go to 24-hour races and you could see the four people that had the HID bulbs because they were a different color, and then everybody else had the older ones.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, I had like a uh I think it was uh what was it called? It was an it was a light in motion oh I can't remember what it was. Mine were Night Rider HID. But it had a big giant battery that put my camel back, weighed like three pounds.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And so and then uh we got into LEDs, and then uh so I've had a lot of brands, a lot of different lights. The one thing about the outbound that I've been really impressed with is and and Tom will talk about this, but it's hard to it's hard to wrap your head around until you actually just experience it, but the light quality, uh your eyes are not strained, you're you're you're not trying to see stuff, the light quality is not bouncing off and hitting you. Like there's this this kind of um just it's a better quality of light. It's not necessarily more light or less light, it's just better so you can see better. Now, um, do you want to hear my drawback? Uh so I got a drawback for the lights. So for the outbound lights. Yes, yeah. So I we have three. I think we have a hangover, a portal, and a um Evo. Evo Evo, yeah. And um, so what I'll do is I'll use them as demos, and then I also will have my kids go ride. So I don't always have two lights. I usually have one, and Outbound believes that the one on your bar, the Evo, is the minimal. You should have that, and you should start with that. And so that's different from what I experience with other lights, where I always wanted on my helmet. Right. And my fear is when you're coming up to a corner, you know you can't see around the corner. You can't see in the corner and you have to slow down. And so my first experience with it was with a friend's light, and I was like, wow, I could see in the corner. I couldn't believe it. I'm like, this this thing is on your bar on your bars, on my bars, and I can actually see in the corner and not slow down, and I was really impressed with that. And so that's when I we started carrying them and I started uh using them myself. I found a drawback. Uh, and so one uh we've been riding a trail, a super technical trail at night here in Tucson. It's got a lot of big rock rolls. And so what happens with that light is it's got a really clean cutoff at the bottom. So as you approach something that you have to point up to go up and then actually go steep down, you can't see. It's like pitch black. And so the bike has to start tilting down before you get it.

Host - Josh Anderson:

But if you have the help the handlebar, the one on your helmet, you can then look down and that solves it.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So if you're if you're looking to buy these lights and you're just riding cross-country and you're not really doing anything super technical, you can definitely just get by with the handlebar one.

Dig it man:

Right.

Host - Dane Higgins:

But if you're doing more technical riding, it is really important that you probably get both, either the hangover or the portal. Now, um, from what Tom was saying, the portal was designed almost with that in mind. So I think it has a a bigger beam to go down so you can see over that crest and actually line up your your steep, you know, or drop-in.

Host - Josh Anderson:

It was episode 89.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Okay.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Which was December 3rd last year. Oh wow. So it's been almost been one year and one week since we did that, which means that I've been riding those lights for a year. Yeah, I believe it. Um, so it definitely is a long-term review. Yeah. I I you know what? I cheaped out and bought the hangover versus the portal. Yeah. Um, because it was like 40 bucks difference. Yeah, yeah. And now listening to you, I'm like, God damn it, I probably should have bought the other one.

Host - Dane Higgins:

But yeah, maybe I will. I mean, having it on your helmet just will help do that. But yeah, I from what it sounded like, they designed that mic particular for that.

Host - Josh Anderson:

For the riding that I'm doing on the trails that I'm doing, yeah, it's perfect.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Now, um, what I want to try is the portal by itself and see if it's sufficient. Oh, okay. Because again, since I'm loaning them, if I'm gonna loan the one away, should I keep the portal or not? So I haven't done that yet, so that'll be another review we do. Yeah, we can test it out.

Host - Josh Anderson:

All right. So okay, so I just have a series of um kind of some random bike shop secrets. And assuming that they don't take too long to get through, we'll also dive into one element of suspension design, if that's okay with you, partner. Sure. All right, so uh first one, and these are these are really random. So, you know, I don't know. Uh out at the uh poker ride this week, I saw one of your customers, and I think she's got a trail cat, pink trailcat 275, smaller lady. Yeah, and she is an older lady, and she does not have a dropper post. Oh she's got a setback Thompson. Yep, yeah. So when I say setback, I mean that the C post comes up straight, like you know, out of the frame. It's got a kink in it. And then it's kinked backwards, and I think I looked up on Thompson's website, it's 16 degrees backwards. Yeah. And so two questions that came to mind. The first was man, was that frame designed to deal with the loads created with a kick with a with a setback seat post? Because it's gonna put the weight distribution in a different place. Do you think that's a problem?

Host - Dane Higgins:

16, I don't know what 16 degrees is in how much offset. Is it 16 millimeters offset? It says 16 degrees. I'm I'm I'm going off of my hand.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Sorry, but it's it's it's slight. It's a slight setback.

Host - Dane Higgins:

That's post. So Thompson designed their post to have a zero offset. And then people on their fits sometimes need a setback, which is usually up to 25 millimeters, depending on the seat post, and uh that allows a fitter to kind of get the saddle where it needs to be for their leg alignment. And so sometimes we'll take a bike and a person needs zero, and sometimes they need an offset. So in the olden days of mountain bikes, when we didn't have droppers, you could get a saddle or a seat post that had offset.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Almost and you you still have when you put the seat on, you still have some movement and the to get to the minimum max settings on the seat.

Host - Dane Higgins:

On the rails.

Host - Josh Anderson:

On the rails. Yeah. So you only use this setback seat post as I understand it if you're if you need to go farther than what the seat will the rails will allow you.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, and most of the time that's a fit um bike uh a fitting aspect that you're trying to get your leg alignment over the cranks. And so I was talking earlier about reach and how that's one thing that's important when you're pedaling a lot and not and seated pedaling, your your knee alignment over the cranks is really critical. And especially if you're not changing your position a lot. So that's why road cyclists are so so conditioned to get fit on a onto a bike properly because they're they don't want to blow their knees up. Mountain bikers haven't quite figured out how much they can get from that. But that post was designed to complement the zero offset Thompson's and give you those two options. Yeah. So that's where that post is.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So do you think it's the loads are okay for that frame?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Absolutely, yeah. Okay. That frame is is very strong and can take those loads no problem.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Um I mean, would you th so that's that's that that's pivot, that's a trail cat. Yeah. But would you throw a setback C-post on any new bike that you have, any new mountain bike that you have in this shop and feel comfortable that the frame could handle it?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yes, absolutely. Okay, um, that one just wasn't far enough. Now, I'll give you a story though. One of my new bikes back in the day that I bought uh was a Trek Remedy, and I was super excited. It was the first 27.5 that I ever had, and I was a non-29er back in the day. I was a never 29 kind of guy. And it does not surprise me. Yeah, and uh, and so I was all into 26, but I wanted, you know, I was like 27.5 at least I can get a little playful. It's it doesn't feel like wagon wheels. I was riding the early 29s where they really felt trucky and hard to turn, and uh so it made sense. And that remedy was, man, it was super fast. It was a really nice bike. Um but the way that it was built, the seat tube was kicked forward. So again, talking about my reach issue, yeah, that bike's reach was similar to my other bike, but because the seat tube was kicked forward, my position was way farther over the cranks. Right. And so my knees would start hurting and my alignment wasn't good, and so I had to kick my seat back, but I also wanted a dropper, and at that time, and and still to this day, most droppers don't have any sitback. That was my next question.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah if you if you have a dropper, is there an option for setback?

Host - Dane Higgins:

There was a couple on the market where they were fruit pretty low end and they had kind of like an old head that was bonded to a dropper. Uh-huh. The the tricky thing with droppers is if you weight the back of the dropper too much, it binds up, it binds. Yeah. And so most droppers are designed with that. And and a lot of modern bikes that are designed with droppers in mind have kind of adjusted the seat tube angle to try and promote that zero offset so you have less need for the bigger.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And they're also offering more sizes now, right? Like the S1 through S6. That's kind of I think relatively new back in the day, maybe that didn't exist so much.

Host - Dane Higgins:

It was more small, medium, large. Well, like uh there's this no man's land of like bike bike uh droppers when they came out where people would be like, I want a dropper on my bike, but the seat collar of the bike was so high that they could only have like an 80 millimeter, you know, uh dropper because they just hadn't designed the bike to have a lot of drop. Yeah, you know, and so then there was this kind of period where people were trying to add droppers to bikes that weren't designed for it. Now almost all the modern bikes have such a low seat collar, they're putting even longer and longer drop posts. You know, 200 millimeters is not uncommon. And that was unheard of, you know, in 2015. You know, if you if you had a hundred millimeter, you were a baller, and if you were at a 125 millimeter dropper, you were seven feet tall. Like, you know, like uh nowadays, 200 on a medium, you know, and so somebody who's 5'10 is riding a 200 drop. 200 millimeter dropper. Yeah, because they've dropped the frame lower to a accommodate for that. So a lot has changed.

Host - Josh Anderson:

It's almost like you're twerking on your bike at that point if you're dropping 200 millimeters.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And you know, I've talked about this before. I'm not a I don't drop my post that much. I yeah, I drop it enough to hold the bike with my thighs, and it's uh so I don't need it like that. So it's always funny when somebody's like, I'm gonna get a new dropper so I can get 20 more millimeters of drop. And I'm just like, okay, 300 bucks for 20 millimeters is it that important? That's what she said. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Host - Josh Anderson:

All right, next question. Um Lacey went out and did like an epic kind of gravel ride on the backside of Star Pass. Oh out in like Swirls. Brown mountain and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. She did a 40-mile ride out there, four-hour 40-mile ride out there. Okay. Um and uh she's riding with a couple folks in town, Hillary and Jeff, and they're kind of avid gravel riders. But um they drop the pressure in their in their gravel tires to 40 psi. We run them at like 60 psi. I promise this is not a gravel question. Okay. Here's the question. I'm as I'm getting better, and I'm getting better, like I'm I'm I'm feeling way better on the bike. Good. I can do more, I'm faster. It's awesome. I'm noticing now subtle changes in my pressure make a huge difference in how the bike rides and how I feel. Like just a couple PSI, I can feel the difference in the bike. Like if I if you like I run my my tires at like 25, 28. Yeah, if it's 22, 25, I can feel it. Yeah. And and I've heard a lot on a lot of different podcasts, and a lot of like like really like talented, capable cyclists that I respect, they always talk about the tire pressure. But you're like one of the fastest guys I've ever ridden with. And you're you just go up and like kick it and like squeeze it a little bit, and you're like, ah, fuck it, that's good. Like, how how is how do you do that? And and and what's your opinion? Like, is it totally psychosomatic? Like it's in my head, that this because I just keep hearing it, so it's just like confirmation, but it's as the the bias is being confirmed, or do you think it really makes that big of a difference? Because you don't seem I I would bel I would bet there's a 10 psi difference between what ride one and ride two for you on a given week.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Just based on how much you don't care.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So I yeah, I mean you're you're kind of nailing it. I don't care. So I have a tolerance of I can feel it. You know, I can feel when my tires are over pressured and they're a little more skittish and I don't have as much comfort. And um I uh but and then when they're too low, you know, I know it right away, and I actually shift my ride style so I'll like lighten my rear uh hits so when I'm going through a rock garden, if I know my tires, I you know it's it's crazy how much crap I do on the bike that I have no idea I'm doing. Yeah, but it's just it's just habit of from years and years. Years and years and years. Yeah. So uh tire pressure is something that I used to joke around that I just grab the tire and feel it and I watched you do that. Yeah. And and and in in our industry, people come in constantly and they're like, what tire pressure should I run? And you know, I everybody wants that quick, easy answer of like 28 psi or whatever, you know, the guy decides. The the problem is when you do this long enough, you realize that you know, the weight of the person, the type of bike, the tires. So we have been so so one of the things that we're gonna talk about in the future is we're testing is uh Schwalbe radials. And those tires need a different pressure, a couple more PSI at least. A different tire. And um, and so like it's it you get kind of numbed to the number and you're more about the feel. And so if I if a tire feels too hard, I'll burp a little air at the top of the climb. I uh that's actually my biggest habit. I've watched you do that a lot too. Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

When you say burp air, he just means undo the press to valve and so like a little.

Host - Dane Higgins:

It's very common when I'm going on a ride, I'll pump my tires up at home with my floor pump and I'll just get them hard. I don't really look. Half of my pumps What do you do to them? Uh get them hard. Okay. I mean that's what you're supposed to do. But uh but uh half of my pumps, the gauges aren't accurate. I'll have two different brands of pumps, and they they don't yeah, they don't work. You know, I've just become less dependent on that number, yeah, and more dependent on the feel. And uh, and so I've just tuned myself to understand that. And that's hard to teach somebody, and so it's easier for somebody to just know a number. And so you'll you'll see uh people online or forums or whatever that just constantly spout spout out like a number. Well, I'm 200 pounds and I run 28 psi, or I'm I'm 175 and I run 29 psi or whatever, but there's so many factors like the type of the tire, the width, the so the width of the rim uh can can factor the type of the tire, the knobs, the ground, the sidewall, like how you ride. I'm super easy, and I'm you're gonna hear this. That's me knocking on wood. I'm super easy on wheels. I don't beat up my wheels, and so I tend to get away with a lot more, but I ride carbon wheels, I get a certain comfort from those carbon. They give me a comfortable ride, and so I run my tires a little harder because of that, and then I learn how the knobs feel at that pressure. So it's it's probably one of the one of the harder questions that people come at me with is like what pressure should I run?

Host - Josh Anderson:

I think I think the bottom line is you agree that you know three, four psi difference can significantly change the ride characteristics. So so it's worth dialing in for your tires, your rims, the way you ride, what you ride, where you ride, it's worth dialing in the pressure and spending some time to think about it.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So so in the olden days, uh before tubeless, when we were running tubes, we were running 50 psi on on a race bike, and the guys I was running teams, and they would come to me and be like, what pressure can I run? And I'm like, put it at 50, and then do a practice lap. And if you can let a little out, do that. But it's faster to have a a hard tire than it is a flat tire. And and so it's yeah, and more air is better than no air. Exactly. And and so we we had kind of that philosophy, you know, going through when we went into tubeless, everybody and their brother are like, I can run low pressure. 16 PSI. And so one of the things that bugged me that is I think we may have talked about uh Ken Avery with uh Vittoria is the pressure is reliant on the volume and the uh the uh this is why like fat tire bikes you put like eight psi in. Yeah, right. So so like and why car tires are extremely stiff and they have 30 psi. Right. Um the the derometer is the the the word, like if you push on a tire and were to measure that how far it deflects, yeah. I think is one of the reasons they get durometer, but I'm not really sure. But basically you're pushing in and you're seeing how far that that thing will depress, that at tubeless pressure is gonna be a much different pressure than it is at tubed. And so these people that were like, I can run 15 PSI on tubeless now, we're wrong. You know, what I'm like, I'm like, no, you need to run a similar feel uh to what you were running with tubed. The difference is you'll have better traction, the the tube itself won't create friction inside, and you'll be taking away one layer of flats, which is your pinch pinch flats, and your sealant will help you with the small flats. So you're getting all these benefits, but you're not getting this huge benefit of running them next to flat. You you want to make them feel the same firmness that they did with the the um and you can get away with a little bit because of those added bonuses of going a little softer for traction, right? But not this ridiculous like 15 psi or whatever. And it took a long time for people to kind of figure that out because automatically they're like, I can run lower pressure.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I'm like, so if you're if you're you know you're a mountain biker out there and you got a bike, you got tires, you got a style that you ride, you got a place, the set of trails that you ride in, you know what your local area is. Like, you know, I don't know that you need to go and like fix and change and update and modify all the shit that Dane just talked about, but like it's free to dial in your pressure. So you know it's worth I just want to make sure you agree with this. Yeah, it's worth taking the time to dial in your pressure.

Host - Dane Higgins:

This is bike shop secrets. I'll I'll tell you two secrets. Go for it. Uh number one, one secret is use the same pump.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yes. Because every fucking pump's got a different like they're not all calibrated.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, yeah. So use the same pump. So if you go to a race, take that pump with you. If you use one of a floor pump, uh take it on a weekend, take that pump with you. Or at least figure out how they're different from each other. So that's the one secret is use the same pump.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Just to make sure people understand what why you're saying that. I can take Dane's pump, like he's got a park pump, let's say, I've got a specialized pump. We can pump them up both up to 20, and you're there there actually will be different pressures because the the gauges are not high quality enough to all be calibrated perfectly. It's like kind of within some margin of error.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, and that's that's with the same tire, same rim, same same circumstance. Two pumps will pump it to different different.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And so so you make sure you're consistently using the same pump so that once you dial it in, you know you're getting to the same level every time.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And um, so and then here's another thing is so I like digital. So I will tell you as we're getting into tubeless and higher volume and bigger tires, like I run two sixes on my cross-country bike, and lots of volume there, and so the more volume you have, the lower the pressure will be. So a road bike tire at 23 millimeters is 120 psi in most cases. Uh, mountain bike tires are usually 30 or less, you know, and it's the volume that's changing that. Um, and like you said, fat tires, you know, two six or um uh you know four three, four point oh, five point five point five point z are gonna be like eight psi. Yeah, ten psi or less. Um so same pump, that's key. Two, I I like the digital gauge. The bigger the volume. So if you're running bigger bikes and durobikes, if you're running bigger tires, your your pressures are getting down below twenty eight, you're getting close to twenty, between twenty and thirty. Yeah. That's ten, you know, it's really hard to see that on a lot of pumps. Specifically on the pump that I'm using right now, yeah. It's hard. It's hard. And so the digital pump helps it. But keep in mind that digital pump has is no better than the other ones as far as use the same pump.

Host - Josh Anderson:

You know, is park or does anybody have a digital adapter to uh air compressor? Because I've got one, but it's got look, I'm looking at yours back there too.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yours has got a gauge, yeah. I I don't know if I've dove into that. So this is the third, I guess there's three secrets. Uh, and and my buddy Justin taught me this one. Um he has a digital uh gauge that he takes with him.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yep. So he could use different pumps, but he uses the same gauge and then adjust, make sure that that's his cheater.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So he can use a cheap pump, he can use anybody's pump, but then he uses the gauge to be his there's a couple different companies.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Blackburn's got one. I don't know who there's a couple that's Topek, I think is the one or SKS.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Uh I can't remember. I've I've used a couple. Um, most of them are pretty good if you get a good name right.

Host - Josh Anderson:

That's like 30 bucks or something, right? Yeah, yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Uh roll the dice if you want to get some from Amazon. I mean, you never know. Um but that was one of the issues that we're having with these little micro pumps, you know, with the motors is yeah, you can preset the pressure, but it's been hard for them to be consistent.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah so you still use those pumps I've even found they themselves I'll pump two different tire, uh pump the same tire to the same PSI twice, and then I'll test it and it'll be different. So I'm saying that pump is actually not delivering the same persp PSI every time I use it. Yep. So I don't trust it. So now I just use it as like a backup on the trail. If I'm you know in trouble, again, some air is better than or any air is better than no air, so just get some fuck away in that.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And that that's something that I've kind of lived by. If I would rather pump up my tire and have it hard. And and I usually uh a lot of times will do that on purpose, and then I will ride half the ride, especially if the ride starts with the climb. And then when I get to the high point I know we're gonna descend, that's when I mess with the pressure. Um one caveat to that is if you have a big change in altitude change, you have to watch out because if you adjust your pressure at the top, it will be very different from the bottom. And I've learned that on the whole enchilada twice now, getting flats because I adjusted it at the very top at a much higher altitude, adjusted it perfect, loved it all the way down midway, started getting pinch flats because just the altitude change had made the tire so much softer. I was I was rock striking like crazy.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So okay, so that that brings me to my next question, which is uh similar kind of vein to what you just said around altitude change, but this is about temperature, and it's about temperature and your suspension. So like I have so so it's it's winter time in Arizona, which means it's 70 degrees, not 100 degrees, but uh that 30 or 40 degree switch is kind of what our average temperature has changed, right? It's come down. And I've I haven't messed with my suspension on my downcountry bike on my on my Epic Evo, but it feels like I need to add air. And I don't know, like maybe there's a leak, maybe I need to bring it in and have you, you know, uh service it. I mean, we just had Thanksgiving, so just had the No, and I'm about the same weight. Yeah, okay. So I haven't gained weight, so that's that's not a change. Because that happens. It does, it does, it definitely does. Um I've been doing the 36-hour fast once a week for the last six weeks. So you're paying attention. I'm paying attention, so yeah, so I'm I'm right there. Okay, and I've got the same scale, so I'm not using different scales. Okay. But uh is it possible that the change in temperature would require me to put more air pressure in my shocker fork?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Um well, let's let's think logically. Are you putting more air pressure when it's cold or when it's hot?

Host - Josh Anderson:

Well, I mean, I think air expands with when the temperature goes up. Don't do that. Just tell me what you're doing. I'm not doing shit. Oh that's my problem. Yeah. I want to know what I need to do. I mean, logically, I'm just whatever. My like my fourth grade math understanding, my fourth grade science understanding is that hot air expands. I think hot air balloons, yeah, and cold air contracts, and so it's getting cold, so the air that's in my shock today is taking up less volume. Therefore, I need to add a little bit extra air in a colder environment. That's my that's my theory. Is that true? Or is that bullshit? It's bullshit.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Um so here there's a couple things that influence that and and make it bullshit. It's you're right, yes, that happens. Uh but uh it's not to the degree that you probably would feel. There is things that you will feel, so a couple things happen. So uh a rear shock is a little easier for me to use. This is rear shock where I'm feeling it. So that's what I'm talking about. So rear shocks, once they cycle, so uh when I rebuild a shock, I put it on a dyno and we go through all the settings and make sure it's it's performing while it's being cycled.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And dyno is just a piece of test equipment that you can mount the shock into and then cycle it and you bit like a hand jam it's a little bit. Yeah, and I don't have to go ride it.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, I can I can feel it right then and there. It's basically uh simulating the the ride, what the bike would do. Yep. And uh it's just compressing it and releasing and compressing. And um I can cycle that thing like three times, three or four times, and I can grab the shock and it will be noticeably warmer. So when you're uh riding these things, they are getting hot uh to a certain temperature. Okay. And so I don't think that's really a factor.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So so the ambient tear air outside's not gonna impact it. So it's so chances are for some reason this shock has lost some air. I probably need to bring it into you to help figure out why.

Host - Dane Higgins:

It yeah, it they can lose air, so they can seep air. Um it's funny there's uh a shrader valve that you use, and it's this little shrader valve, same thing that's in cars, uh that sucker can hold 200, 300 psi. Uh, but it's the pressure and the volume are kind of weird. So the more volume you have at 300 psi, the less work the shrader does, uh, or the less air that you'll notice leaves leaves. And so uh an example of this is with our DVO rear shocks. So they have a bladder system, and their bladder is the size of a thimble, it's tiny. And we put 180, maybe even 100-200 in in some of them, uh PSI in this thimble size with a Schrader valve.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Uh and when you unscrew the thing, a little bit seeps out. Is that what you're talking about?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Nope, no. Um over a month you can lose like it feels like 50% of the air. Like, so I will put a I can lose um so let's say I'm putting 200 in there, and uh over a month I can go check that and and use a variance, which means uh every time you put the pump on there, some of the the air goes into the pump. And so let's say I put 200 in there, I attach my shock pump, and then my shock pump, let's say, reads 150. So I know that the uh 50 psi is moving from that smaller chamber into my pump. Okay. Um now if I do that three times and it's consistent, I know that's how much I'm gonna lose. Right. So let's say I put 200 in and then a month I check it and it's at 100. So I know 50 went in there, but 50 is gone. Is gone. And so what's happening is it is coming out, and so it's leaking out. Uh it's getting past the Schrader valve, it's getting past whatever. Uh most of the time it's a Schrader valve, is it's got the the gateway that's the easiest to get by. The that thimble size and the percentage of molecules, right, that can seep past that thing. I got it. Are a greater percentage will get past that to the volume that's in there. Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Whereas if it seeps out, you know, if it seeps out whatever, I don't even know what the rate unit of measure is for air, but yeah, but just imagine that you it's uh yeah, I can't remember what it is.

Host - Dane Higgins:

CP, I I can't remember what it's like.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, but like whatever. Let's say twenty out of a hundred is twenty percent. Twenty out of a thousand is is two percent. Yes, exactly.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And so the bigger the cans on the shocks, the less it's affected, the smaller the cans. So we see a lot of like um there's a uh shock that Rock Shock makes called the Sidlux. And we see a lot more of those come in with symptoms of losing pressure, and it's because it's such a tiny little shock. It's tiny, you know. I don't see the pressure loss as much on the bigger can ones.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So I think what uh the practical like lesson I think I'm taking out of this.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And this is this is all pro this is all uh with a caveat that there's no actual leak. Problem.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah. Right. Yeah, okay. So I think the practical thing I'm hearing out of this is that once you get your sag dialed, you should you should pull out your phone, go open notes, make a note, say, here's what how much I got in my back, here's how much I got in my front, and then periodically you should check that shit and make sure it's not losing a little bit. Because even under normal circumstances, your suspension is going to lose a little air.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Now, now let's talk about temperature. Uh, because there's a couple other things that temperature can affect. So when we do suspension service, we actually use a Bath fluid, which is what goes in the lowers.

Dig it man:

Uh-huh.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And so is this you're going to talk about viscosity of thickness, uh, like how goopy it is. And um, so during the summer, here it's pretty hot. I tend to use a bath fluid that is much thicker because the heat will thin it out. So higher viscosity for is that the right term?

Host - Josh Anderson:

But a th thicker, anyways. I got your point.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, it's more molassesy and less watery.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Is molassesy a word?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yes, it is now. Okay, perfect. Perfect. If it's on the internet, doesn't that count?

Host - Josh Anderson:

What's the molassesy percentage of your bath oil?

Host - Dane Higgins:

I don't know. So but I have two, and I have a winter and a summer. Right. And I use them pretty interchangeably depending on when I'm servicing. And it's really, you know, it's not super conscious. I don't do like I have a set date or anything, but as soon as I run out of that bottle, if it is cold out, I will switch to the to the thinner one. Yep. For the for the winter. Yep, exactly. And then if when that bottle is run out, if it's warm out, I'll switch to the thick one. It does very little. It's intelligible. Yeah, it's it's not a big deal, and there's lots of i they both work fine. Yep. And they're both interchangeable, but I just do that out of habit. You know, it's what I would do in my fork, you know. And um the other thing about temperature is rubber tends to get harder and stiffer uh when it's cold. And so you do have a little stiction at first when it's cold out. So if you get on your fork, um it will be a little colder. There's a little irony there, because uh there's a fork called uh Bluetooth. Do you know what the Bluetooth is? No. So it's a rock shock fork made for fat bikes. Okay, I think I've seen that. Yeah, and so when they first came out, they had a problem. Uh they did not create some of the O-rings in the air system were not big enough that at sub-zero temperatures they would get so hard, but also small. They didn't expand, they kind of contract under cold, and they would uh let air by and people couldn't hold the pressure.

Host - Josh Anderson:

And so And a lot of people riding fat bikes in the winter in the snow. Yeah. Yeah, it's a snow bike originally. Yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

We use it here in the desert for the sand. But uh but yeah, it's a snow bike. And so man, I kind of want a fat bike again. I feel like they go through waves. And right now a wave of fat bikes is coming.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I'm feeling it. I'm feeling the need. That's all I need is one more bike. Right, exactly.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And they're they take up a lot of space.

Host - Josh Anderson:

At least he's gonna hear this and be like, uh-uh, boy.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Uh-uh. You got nowhere to put it. So yeah, and then uh the last thing that you said that kind of factors into rear shocks is when we're selling a new one, they have a break-in period. So they're they're just kind of stiff at first. So when you initially set up your sag, it's pretty common that after your first ride or two, you're like pedal striking. You're like, what's going on? And the shock is much more active and smooth, and so you have to reset your sag.

Host - Josh Anderson:

By the way, that's how I picked up that the suspension was different, is I was pedal striking more. Yeah. And I never pedal strike on that bike. Yep. Yeah. So okay. Regardless of all that, I'm going back to the secret.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Let's put a secret out there. Secret would be to yes, check your suspension. It doesn't lose that much, so you don't realize it, but it would be a good idea every few months to check your suspension.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So check your check the sag on your suspension. You change your ride. Well, I mean, that's a good point too, right? Like you're uh I'm I've I'm riding different, I'm riding more aggressive, I'm standing up and pedaling more, I'm riding faster, I'm hitting corners. I I I I don't want our listeners to get confused here. I'm still not that good. I'm just way better than I used to be. And I'm feeling good on my bike.

Host - Dane Higgins:

But that's a good point, too. When you change your ride style, so if you stand up on the bike and lean forward, you're gonna put way more pressure on that front fork than if you're in a seated position. Yeah. And so it's gonna do different things. And the same thing for the rear shock. And if you're going uphill or downhill, that changes. So you can get little weird things when that happens.

Host - Josh Anderson:

All right, I got two more questions for you. And once again, we are not gonna get to this to the suspension topic in detail because we're already an hour and five minutes. We're not gonna have to do a whole episode. We're gonna do a whole episode. Okay, two more questions. Um, these should be easy ones. Um, when I was in Anchorage, what three years ago in the summertime we went and rode, and there was something weird that we noticed, and like every single person we rode with on the curve.

Host - Dane Higgins:

It was white and kind of like wet. Anchorage? Yeah. No, it was beautiful and green in the summertime.

Host - Josh Anderson:

I thought it was snow that you're gonna do. No, it was the summertime. It was the summertime. Although we did when we hiked up in the mountains, we did see some snow. Because in Tucson, what's like, what is that? What is snow? No, it was. I mean, Anchorage was amazing. But everybody rides with bells. Yes. And the reason they ride with bells is for bears. And the bells, like, I guess keep the bears away. Um I have noticed recently here a lot of people riding with bells. And I was talking to the guys about it last night, and they're like, Yeah, on a couple of the downhill trails up on Lemon, like Aspen or Um uh Bugs, there's hikers coming up. Yeah. And so the bells just warn the hikers that there's a you know, bunch of rowdy, banshee mountain bikers coming down to get off the trail. So, like, I my question is is like, how popular is it for folks to run bells? And is there bells that you recommend?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, it's not as popular as I'd like. Uh, the amount of times I've come down uh the this trail that you talk about, uh Aspen, is on the top of Mount Lemon, so we escape the heat up there. Yeah, it's steep, it's nasty, um, but it's also people hikers are escaping the heat too. Right. And so it's always got hikers on it, and we shuttle it, so we're coming down fast on big bikes. And um I the amount of hikers that have told me straight up, thank you for the bell, you know, um, they're they really appreciate it because they don't want to be caught off. They can hear us coming, it gives them a heads up, they can move over at their pace, make sure they're safe, things like that. We always slow down when we see them, so it's not like we're careening through like jerks.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Um but but but there are blind corners and stuff.

Host - Dane Higgins:

So you can run into a situation where you're coming around a corner and they're just right there. And and and uh let it be known that everybody should be riding responsible on multi-use trails. They should not be controlled. 100%. And a blind corner is not an excuse for hitting people.

Dig it man:

Yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Um, so you should slow down. Like I it's hard as somebody who wants to kind of train to race, and I I want to do that. It's hard sometimes. Real fast, yeah. But you you need to be responsible, and that's not the way to do it. And uh, but the bells help a lot. Uh, I think the hikers mostly I I haven't had anyone who doesn't like them.

Dig it man:

Yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Um, so we sell a few, we though probably the most popular one is the timber bell. Uh that's the one you can turn on and off. Yeah, and so that's nice because you can have it on your bike, you can turn it off because you don't need to when you're climbing, you can turn it off because you're not gonna run into a hike. When it's on your bike rack, when it's you know everywhere, you know, you don't you don't have to have it on, and then you can turn it on for the descent. The worst is that you have to remember to turn it on. Um, but um honestly, if one person in the group has it and they're near the front, that's probably the best. And I think Incredibel is another one, is that what you mean? Incredible, um, I haven't shh I don't know if they make one that's on off like the timber bell that jingles, but a lot of people will just have bells. So on the path, so we have this loop, which is this wonderful paved um We've talked about it a lot. We had a we had an episode with the with the guy. Yeah, yeah. And so you can ride regular bikes, towny bikes, whatever. On that, we sell a ton of um our our best-selling bell is stupid expensive. And I'll tell you right now, until you hear it, you'll like, I'm never spend 70 bucks on a bell. Like, never do that, you know. But we sell these things like crazy because as soon as you hear it, you're like, Yeah, I want that. And it's called a spur cycle uh bell. And it is got the best tone, it's it's it rings forever, it's easy to hear from long distances, uh, it is super high quality, and they've really paid attention to how sound travels. Uh-huh. It's kind of like the outbound of of bells. Yeah. And um, and so it we sell a ton of them, and we have one, and we'll just but those are bells that you actually actuate.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Those you have to actuate. So that's more for like road road riding. Yep, that's the type of bells I was asking about are ones that just ring free as your bike's rattling to warn bears, mountain lions, or hikers that you're coming. Yeah, and I would say the timber bell is probably the most popular.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

All right, thank you. I bet you did not expect a question about bells.

Host - Dane Higgins:

No, I like it though. I I would like more. Uh we don't have well, we do have bears, but it's usually the hikers. It should be a hiker warning bell. I think I almost feel like some trails should actually require it. I I do, and I don't think that would be a bad thing if if you're on a bike on a multi-use trail that you're required to have a bell. I don't know how they'd enforce that, but I think it's good safety and the hikers would appreciate it.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, I mean, we like we we say, especially on multi-use trails, just be cool. Yeah. And having a bell, if you're going downhill, that's bringing out and letting people know, that's just a cool thing to do. So be cool, man.

Host - Dane Higgins:

And in most cases, they'll be out of the way when you come through. It'll less impediment for you, less danger. I mean, it you hit somebody, you're gonna hurt them, but you're gonna get hurt too.

Host - Josh Anderson:

You know, so if you are not a mountain biker and but your significant other is, and you're looking for an inexpensive gift to give them that they probably don't have. Yeah, yeah. A timber bell might be a good idea. You could probably get them online. If you're in Tucson, you can come to Googre Bikes and get one. Yeah, we got um, but yeah, check it out. All right. Cool. Okay, final question. Final question. Okay, okay. All right, the tires on my uh downcountry bike are are getting kind of bare. Okay. Uh and then also the tires on my e-bike are looking weird. Okay. Like um, I'm starting to see cracks in some of the knobs, but the knobs are still pretty big. Okay. They don't look worn down, it just looks like they're cra starting to crack. And so that led me to this question of like what are the signs I should look for that indicate I need to change my tires, replace my tires? Like, what should I what should I be looking for on the tire, on the on the on you know what I can see that would indicate to me, hey, hey Josh, it's time to and maybe it's how the bike feels or performs, or maybe how it's looked, but like what tells you, like when do you get maybe back before you were just swapping tires to test them and like today, but when you actually pay for your tires full price and all that?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Back when I was uh like a student and had zero money, didn't own a bike shop, you know, things like that, I I would run until they're bald. Um in our terrain here, we're on rock so much I could get away with that. So this this is gonna be terrain specific because if you're in loamy condition, the tire is way more important than it is when you're riding rock slabs. Uh the rock slabs are tend to be give you a ton of grip, even if you had a ball tire. And so um but you know what I ride, which is like greens and blues. Well, so what you ride is not not necessarily the greens or blues, it's uh it's kitty litter over hard, loose loose over hard is what they call it. And so that takes a particular knob. So you don't really need in that case a huge knob. So running minions and stuff like that out on the train you ride doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't. It's just gonna be heavier and it they'll be comfortable and they'll give you grip, but they're not necessary. So you and they slow you down a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a mid-knob is probably better. Yeah. Um, so what we see here because of the train, because it's really rocky, is that the outer knobs will actually wear out on the inside of them. It's the weirdest thing.

Host - Josh Anderson:

That's what's happening on my e-bike. And my wife tells me it's because I don't know how to corner.

Host - Dane Higgins:

No, she's wrong. I mean, she's awesome, but she's wrong. Uh what what's happening? One, there is a weight difference. So you're bigger than she is. Yes. Um, what's happening is that knob when you're leaned over is getting a lot more use on the inside of it than it is on the outside. The outside when you're is is is it's folding basically uh towards the case. Pushing out. Yep, exactly. And so uh so that's probably the number one thing. I I don't have any problems running those tires. If I'm racing, I get a little bit more superstitious, but also picky about my tires because I don't want my tire to be my limiting. I don't want to lose a race because of my tire. So I'll be a little more picky on how good my tires are, and I'll be a little way, way more uh aware of if they're in good shape or not. But for general riding, I just ride until I get a cut or a bad puncture.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So let me give you some conditions and you tell me if that should signify because I'm not satisfied with your answer yet. I'm starting to see little cracks in the knobs. I don't know what that means. So at the base of the knob, on the corners actually, on the outsides, yeah. Uh on the inside, right? I can see like little cracks where it looks like I mean I could live feel like I could go grab that knob and like pull it off.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Well, that happens. And so so if that starts happening and you have like a DLAM or a uh, you know, basically the rubber's not adhering to the casing, yeah, and the knobs are coming off. So if you have a knob rip-off, because you just hit a rock and that rob just that rock just carved that knob right off your tire, you'll see the rubber underneath. Yeah. And that is what we would call a non-defective or a non-issue. That's just happens. You know, you just got a sharp rock that was like a knife, you know. Um, but if you see that casing and it's and that rubber is delaminating from the casing, yeah, you could have just either one, you could have a bad tire. Uh two, it could be an older tire, and as they get oxidized and brittle, uh, that rubber just loses the adhesion. It's kind of hard to lose the adhesion down there. It usually loses its rubberiness on the outside uh first. And so um that those are the things that you may see. And if you see that, uh like uh so if I get if I see delamination, I see the casing, replace the tire. It's gonna keep happening. Now, if you're poor and you have no money, run it until you have a problem. But um, you know, things like uh run it as a rear tire, you know, uh don't risk the front washing out on you, you know. So safety-wise, I would say if you're running a questionable tire in the back, it's way less uh impactive than in the front because the front is you know, cornering, hitting a corner and having a tire let loose is bad.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So what about if I get a puncture and I put a plug in? Will you run those long term?

Host - Dane Higgins:

I I rode one, um, what was it? Big Betty? Was it Schwalby a long time ago? Like two years. With a plug. With a plug. I couldn't believe it. Like how long. It was a front tire, so I I and I was riding slabs. It was a big knob tire, so I just didn't wear out the front very much. The rear was bald, and the front had a plug in it for two years. I couldn't believe how long it lasted. Um, so I have done it. I've We should probably be careful from a liability perspective.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, yeah. I don't want to get us in trouble. So like what from a safe uh not what you would do, but from a safety perspective. Well, so if you get would you agree that if you get a puncture, replace a tire?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, that's a tough one because if somebody's gonna hold me accountable, if you get a puncture, you use a plug to get home and then you replace it. Okay, now that's the same. So that's the general recommendation. That that is the I'm afraid of being sued recommendation. If you talk to anybody else, they'll they'll say just they'll they'll say run it. So let's say this.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Just I don't want to get sued.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Our formal recommendation is if you get a if you get a puncture, replace your tire. Get home and replace your tire. Yeah. If you do anything other than that, it's on you.

Host - Dane Higgins:

It's it's on you, yeah. And and you know, yeah, it's kind of tough. That's one of those subjects because we deal with that in the bike shop and we're helping people all the time. And sometimes uh I'll have a conversation with them and I'll say, This is not I'm taking off my bike shop hat and I'm telling you as somebody who you met on the trail.

Host - Josh Anderson:

Yeah, you know, it'll probably be okay.

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, and I'm I would ride that tire. And then at least if I say I would ride that tire, they understand that it's I'm not saying you go ride that tire. Yeah, I'm saying I would ride that tire. And so it's tough. If if somebody's like that, I probably don't want to talk to them. So like you know, like I'll be like, you go go go talk to that person over there.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So all right, man. Well, a diverse set of topics today. Yeah, it's pretty fun. Yeah, thank you for your wisdom as always. I know our listeners appreciate it. I know I appreciate it. I learn a lot. Uh, you got any final thoughts for our listeners, brother?

Host - Dane Higgins:

Yeah, I mean, I you know, I love doing these things. If uh I would love some more feedback if people have things to to maybe try and get something to us on subjects that they're wondering about. Because uh you come up with these and they're great, and I need to come up with some, but uh it's it's fun to kind of give people a little a little peek into what we're dealing with all the time and some knowledge that's not easy to get sometimes.

Host - Josh Anderson:

So right on. We got some whiskey glasses. You don't even know about this. No, we got some whiskey glasses branded with uh Mountain Cog that are in production at the moment. So we'll have a limited run of Mountain Cog. So we'll have swag? A little bit of Mountain Cog whiskey glasses because we talk about whiskey a lot. So uh yeah, uh we'll we'll we'll let you know. Probably give some out, maybe sell a few. We'll see. What about nipple manager shirt? I don't know. I don't know if our brand manager would uh appreciate the nipple management.

Host - Dane Higgins:

I still walk walk around with that shirt on, and people give me weird looks and I forget I have it on. I'm like, why do they keep looking at me? And then I realize the shirt says nipple manager.

Host - Josh Anderson:

That's a good way to go out. Okay.

Head Shot

Dane "Suspension Guru" Higgins

Host
Head Shot

Josh "Magellan" Anderson

Host