126 - Shop Talk: SRAM's Quiet Overhaul, Brembo Brakes, & Why Reach Is Misleading

Shop Talk is back on the Mountain Cog Podcast, and Episode 126 is loaded. Josh and Dane open with the Avinox M2 motor conversation that's dividing the e-bike world right now — too much power, not enough regulation, or just the next evolution of trail riding? Then they get into something that didn't get nearly the attention it deserved: SRAM overhauling their entire non-T-type Eagle lineup and simplifying it down to three groups. If terms like NX, GX, XO, and XX1 are part of your vocabulary, you'll want to hear what's replacing them and what it means for anyone still riding a non-T-type AXS setup.

The second half of the episode tackles Brembo's entrance into mountain biking with their GR Pro brake, which brings some legitimate motorsport engineering to the trail — including a three-position lever ratio system that lets you tune the brake feel from progressive to immediate. Josh and Dane give you the honest take without the hype. Dane also breaks down why he sees reach being misused constantly in his shop, and why a customer almost spent $350 on an unnecessary stem because an AI told him his reach was wrong. Spoiler: the bike fit perfectly once it was actually built and measured. Rounding out the episode are bang-for-the-buck picks for Reynolds aluminum wheels, WTB Volt saddles, and a quick fix for tubeless tires that aren't holding air.

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Transcript

Relaxed Start And Bad Jokes

Host - Josh Anderson 0:19

This is the most laid back we've ever been.

Host - Dane Higgins 0:22

I know it's because we just rode. So we all want to take naps.

Host - Josh Anderson 0:25

We're like kicked back with our feet up, leaning back in the chairs. We're usually up and attentive. I wonder if like it's gonna change like the vibe of the podcast because we're like will people feel how relaxed we are? Maybe we're biasing them by talking about it right now. That's true. We should have you got something to tell me?

Host - Dane Higgins 0:41

I got a joke. Go for it. Um okay. Why did the zebra say wait, what did I see? I already screwed it up. You already screwed it up. I'm too relaxed. Okay. What did the zebra say the first time he saw a piano?

Host - Josh Anderson 0:56

I don't know what he said.

Host - Dane Higgins 0:57

Dad? So this isn't a dad joke. It's a bad joke. It's because my hands are my thumbs are are are fat. And so when I'm typing in dad joke to get a dad joke, I accidentally hit bad joke.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:12

In bad joke, and that came up. That totally could have been a dad joke.

Listener Thanks And Show Format

Host - Dane Higgins 1:15

I know, it could have. They have another one that's a total dad joke, which is the uh why do chicken coops only have two doors? Why? Because otherwise it'd be chicken sedans. Okay. Which is also a dad joke and bad job. Bad dad joke. I think all dad jokes are bad for the most part. Yeah, some of them I think are I think some of them are really funny and they're so overused that's when they become dad jokes.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:41

So it's uh it's Sunday on the MCP here, and I want to just start out by thanking our listeners. Um uh our last episode, uh How Much Do You Bike Companies Make, has just been performing wonderfully. Yeah. Uh fastest uh uh episode um from a download listens uh consumption rate, all that kind of stuff. So thank you uh for those that are sharing the word. Um and we'll give a little plug. Like, you know, you can help us out. We don't make any money in this, um, but you can help us out by uh telling your friends. You can help us out by going to Apple or Spotify and giving us a great review. All those things help. Um and uh and yeah, keep us going. Keep us going, really appreciate you guys. Um, today we're back with a shop talk episode, uh, one of our uh new format, you know, we've got kind of like three formats the shop talk episode, special topics, and then uh bike shop secrets. So we're back with uh a shop talk episode. And if you remember uh the first one that we released, we kind of have four recurring segments. One is like what are people talking about? Uh one is uh what grinds my gears, one is is the hype real? And then the final one is bang for your buck. You know, Dana and I talk about things that we think are, you know, bike basically bike components that we think are like really good for the price. Um yeah, man, I guess we'll just jump right in unless you have something you want to add.

Host - Dane Higgins 3:03

Oh, that sounds good.

Avinox M2 Motors Stir Debate

Host - Josh Anderson 3:04

All right, so first segment here, what are people talking about? Um and I hate to like just they say you're not supposed to talk about e-bike stuff right off the bat because you'll lose like half your listeners. I appreciate, or just just just understand, we're only gonna talk about e-bike stuff for like five minutes on this podcast. Bear with us. Just bear with us. But uh, but Avinox dropped the new M2S motor. Yep.

Host - Dane Higgins 3:28

Uh it is the new M2 motor too, so two new motors.

Host - Josh Anderson 3:33

Okay. So and uh everybody's talking about them. They are well, you go ahead because you've actually got one.

Host - Dane Higgins 3:38

Yeah, I I got the the new pivot uh that has it, which blew me away. The pivot amped? Amped, yeah. Um I've been wanting this bike. Someone said that I wanted this bike, and and then they told me no, we're not gonna do it. We're double down and on uh Bosch. They sent out a memo uh saying that they weren't gonna do it, and this is why. And then like a month later, the those MFers showed up with the bike, and I was like, damn it. So do you think you changed their mind, Dean? I think that I am a small portion of the amount of people that said the same thing. So and and the that motor's been really popular. Uh there's a lot of people that are arguing about if it's too much motor. It's controversial, right? Yeah, very controversial. I totally agree with that conversation because I I do feel like they're getting a little carried away with these power wars. And so but you mean the big news, what people are talking about, is not only did Amflow drop two new motors and four new bikes, and they've only had their bike in the States for a year. Right. Uh they I think they've only really had it out for two. And I was thinking that Avinox, uh, the parent company has only had that motor really around for two to three years. Yeah. DJI is a parent company, but Avinox and Ampler are the two. They're separating. They don't want DJI to be uh recognized. They don't want it stuck to it, and they don't want the stigma in the states, especially. Right. You know, that causes and so they're trying to separate it. But uh the uh the so so now, you know, really soon they have got all these new things. But the big in a very short window from the first launch, they've got new bikes, new motors, blah blah blah. We've already had one customer want to return his AMFL so he can get the new one. Right. You know, and I it kind of blew my mind because logically his bike is nicer than the new one. He's just looking at the price because he got his bike on sale. Right. And so he got a sale priced, uh, what they call the PL, and he's trying to compare it to the PR, which is a heavier, a little more cumbersome, not quite as nice as uh the the new PX or the PR or PL. Um the uh the other thing that is is happening is the amount of companies that are adopting it. So like I They're adopting the motor. Yeah, so there's uh and you've got you've got a pivot amped. Pivot amped, so that's one of them. There's I can't name them because there's 30 to 50 new bikes out with these motors in them now, and all over the place, whether it's some T-wing like AliExpress bike or you know, a pivot. You know, like think about that, a pivot, like pivots not gonna stick anything in their bike. So uh so that's what people are talking about as far as Avinox goes. And the the motor, the power, all of that stuff, that's gonna be a huge discussion for the next one.

Host - Josh Anderson 6:33

Yeah, it's super controversial, whether it's actually legal or not, both both that and the and the new shama or the new specialized system.

Host - Dane Higgins 6:40

Or will the laws that are gonna be made um you know make it so you can't buy them or sell them or what? I don't know.

Host - Josh Anderson 6:47

Yeah, I mean you can look at New Jersey where you actually have to have a you know, you have to now have a license and you have to have a DOT approved helmet, full face helmet, and insurance on your e-bike.

Host - Dane Higgins 6:58

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 6:59

Um it'd be interesting to see how it all plays out. But uh a fantastic performing motor is your perspective, right?

Host - Dane Higgins 7:05

Yeah, it it it the motor is pretty solid, and so far from what I've seen, the company's really good. They're green and they're getting they're learning the bike industry, you know. Uh, but other than that, they're they're gonna give Bosch a run for their money, that's for sure.

Host - Josh Anderson 7:19

Well, I will tell you, man, I I was we rode today and we rode a we rode a trail about 20 miles and had about 2,800 feet of climbing in it, and just on the climy sections, Dane Dane's a better rider than me, so like if it's technical, he's gonna smoke me. But there were some sections that were pretty smooth and climby. Yeah, and on those, actually, typically, if we're riding acoustic bikes, I will actually smoke you because my fitness is a little better. Yeah, you can climb better than I can, especially pedal uphill. But today, we're both on EMTBs, but today you just smoke me, dude.

Host - Dane Higgins 7:49

I mean, not it like by a long, large margin. That bike is just insane. And I was in uh they have a mode called auto, and so I wasn't in the easiest mode. The easiest mode I'll ride uh if I'm riding with people that don't have e-bikes. Yeah. And I'll just it's bad, it's backed way down, and it just it keeps me going, but it doesn't make me wait forever, you know, stick with the crowd. Yeah. Um, but this auto mode, the the more I give, the more power it gives.

Host - Josh Anderson 8:14

So it's kind of like and I'm like, dude, why don't you put that I I'm like pedaling as hard as I can in ludicrous, and you're like, you're like just do do do do do do do do oh man.

Host - Dane Higgins 8:24

I mean, I mean, we'll get off the subject soon because I know the non-e-bikers don't.

Host - Josh Anderson 8:29

Yeah, we've almost lost them. We'll give you 60 more seconds and then we won't talk about another e-biker.

Host - Dane Higgins 8:33

I'll tell you why everyone's talking about these because you can have so much fun going up the hill as well as down the hill. Like it is a hundred percent fun. And if your goal isn't to just get your heart rate to a certain level or burn calories or build endurance for a long ride, if you're just out for fun, it's so hard to turn your nose up to these things. They're pretty amazing.

Host - Josh Anderson 8:54

All right, so just like taking your medicine, we've gotten the e-bike conversation out of the way. We won't talk about e-bikes for the rest of the time, I promise.

Host - Dane Higgins 9:02

We need we need to do an e-bike episode, and I think that's fair.

Host - Josh Anderson 9:06

We should do an e-bike episode, and then we can sh then I can prove to you that our listeners don't want to hear it.

Host - Dane Higgins 9:10

Yeah, they can't.

Host - Josh Anderson 9:12

They can vote with their listens. They can vote where their listens. We'll look at the consumption rate and if the e-bike um uh yeah, maybe we should now we have to be honest and title it so they know what it's like.

Host - Dane Higgins 9:21

No, yeah, no tricking. Yeah, no tricking, no bait and switch or bait, now they call it click click uh clickbait clickbait.

SRAM Renames Eagle Drivetrains

Host - Josh Anderson 9:27

Yeah, we're not we're not a clickbait podcast. Um all right, so the next thing that we think is interesting that people are talking about, and this I think is funny because like it wasn't announced in a major way. It was kind of like snuck in there by like, oh, by the way, this is what we're doing. And what I'm talking about is Shram and their drive trains, their uh acoustic drivetrains or non-transmission drivetrains, I guess you should say. Yeah, non-T-type, non-T-type. Um basically, you know, retiring at least the name of many, many, many different component groups and going back to just two non, well, I guess three. One electric and two acoustic, yeah um uh uh drivetrains, right? Mechanical. Mechanical, thank you, thank you. I think I say acoustic, right? But yeah, yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins 10:16

So tell us what they did. So uh they um they're kind of retiring, they're gonna phase out like some of what we know as their eagle groups. So like if you had an NX Eagle group or a GX Eagle group or a XO Eagle group, yeah, those are gonna start getting phased out and they're gonna get replaced by um Tram's new nomenclature, I guess, which is like Eagle S100, Eagle S200, and then I think it's Eagle S500, right? Yeah, cool. And then and the 500 is AXS, which means it's electric.

Host - Josh Anderson 10:48

So maybe maybe walk by one let's walk through one group at a time. Okay, and you can tell our listeners like, okay, here's what the group is. Is it like budget, premium, whatever, and then what is it replacing? Like what were the old versions of the system?

Host - Dane Higgins 11:01

Yeah, so the the budget oriented was going to be the Eagle um 100 S100. S100.

Host - Josh Anderson 11:06

Eagle S100, that's it. Mechanical, still mechanical.

Host - Dane Higgins 11:08

Yep. Um, it'll still work on an Eagle system. So so here's backwards compatible? Yes. Yeah, and that's and that's probably the best thing for people to understand is like if you have a NX and you bend that on a rock and you need a replacement, and your shop says, Hey, I don't have anything but this S100. It'll work. It'll work. That's okay. That's what it's meant to be. But it's taking the place of like the NX and the SX.

Host - Josh Anderson 11:33

So now it so instead of buying NX or SX components, you would buy an S100. Yep. And this is kind of like Shimano's Dior group, basically. Would you think that kind of how it feels like?

Host - Dane Higgins 11:44

No, that's pretty solid solid. Yeah. Okay. I don't have pricing. Uh I I haven't seen pricing either. Yeah, so I don't know how they compare with Dior because we did a whole episode on pricing. On talking about how the the Dior group was a huge bang for the buck.

Host - Josh Anderson 11:58

Yeah. So well maybe uh we'll we'll just take the action to talk about that in a future episode. I don't even know if pricing's been released. I haven't seen anything.

Host - Dane Higgins 12:05

Yeah, it's funny. I don't they were so quiet about this. Like there's so much buzz about all kinds of stuff, and you'd think they would tell people, but I think what this is doing is really just taking a lot of skews for them and and refining them down to a couple where they can change the derailleurs. They don't want to abandon people that have these systems and and just make them feel like they have to go buy T-type. Yep. But at the same time, they want to trim it, they want to put out something a little bit more refined, a little better, but not necessarily keep all of them.

Host - Josh Anderson 12:35

So what was an X Eagle, an SX Eagle has now been replaced by Eagle S100.

Host - Dane Higgins 12:42

Yep. Yeah, and so it'll be similar price points to those two, and it'll be compatible with those, no problem. Cool. And the next level up is gonna take the place of XX1, XO, and GX. So that's quite a few. You know, it's a big range.

Host - Josh Anderson 12:57

You know, we got carbon fiber on some of them, titanium, all the way down to it'd be interesting to see like what this new S200 like what is it? Is it more like XX or more like GX or what is it?

Host - Dane Higgins 13:10

Like where does it fall weight-wise and price wise? So the the um S200 Eagle is gonna replace all three of those. And then um with the Access, so I still have a couple access bikes that aren't T-type, and I love electric shifting because it just it works. And so with T-type, you have to get everything. You've got to have the T-type cassette, the chain, chain ring, it it's an ecosystem. You have to have everything. Yep. Uh the little pod shifters are totally compatible with either one. Okay. So that's the one thing. Um, and so uh if you have an access system, you don't have to go out and buy T-type. You can now buy S500 AXS.

Host - Josh Anderson 13:52

And this basically replaces the whole non-T-type access.

Host - Dane Higgins 13:56

So like XO, XGX, XX1, the the all of them. All of them. Okay. Yeah. They have an X1 on here, which I think was an X1000.

Host - Josh Anderson 14:06

Okay.

Host - Dane Higgins 14:06

Or is that like a OEM or something? It was like OE. Well, no, that that's T type. I I'm not sure.

Host - Josh Anderson 14:12

So is this but how did you put this he we're reading from a table here that Damien sent me? Did you put this together or didn't you? No, this is a shram. This came from Shrams. So this is so we're this isn't bullshit.

Host - Dane Higgins 14:23

This is like this is this is how they see it. Okay, perfect. Yeah, and so um so the again the S500 AXS derailer. A very common thing is as your derailleur gets old on some of the old access, they could get corrosion, and the little um battery pins would stop working, and so your your derailleur would stop working. And that was an issue that they had uh they're trying to f tried to fix, but they didn't make it replaceable, so they'd have to replace derailers, or you would have to buy a derailleur if it wasn't in warranty. Right. And so this would be a good option if you still have that system and don't want to buy everything new, you you can still get derailers. It's not like they just bailed on everybody, right? So I I like that because I there's a lot of people that invested a ton of money in an access bike a few years ago. They don't need a new bike, and this will keep their bike going. And so it's kind of Shram saying, hey, we're not we're not bailing on you, we're not leaving you behind.

Host - Josh Anderson 15:22

So to recap, Shram has now retired nine groups, all mechanical, I'm not all mechanical, non-T-type groups, nine they've retired, and they've replaced NX and SX with S100, they've replaced XX, XO, and GX with S200, and then all of the non-T type access stuff, XX, XO, GX with S500.

Host - Dane Higgins 15:47

Yeah, and I would say um phasing out is the best way to describe it. There we still have some stuff, there's Shram's got stuff. There'll be stuff out there for a while, but as it becomes less and less, yeah, they're not producing anything new. And so as those shelves start to get empty, this S series will start filling in.

Host - Josh Anderson 16:06

So no reason not to buy one of those nine.

Host - Dane Higgins 16:08

No. Uh you might even find some good deals on them. Who knows? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know if this is gonna trigger a sale kind of thing, or if it'll just be uh uh they'll you know, they'll they'll have them at the I mean we have XO and GX derailers in the shop right now, so uh I'm I don't plan on putting them on sale because but you're not gonna see any new bikes come with that stuff. It's gonna start phasing out.

Trail Work And Giving Back

Host - Josh Anderson 16:31

But it all works, yeah. Yeah, it all works together, so that's cool. All right, so that was uh kind of like the two things that we think um for this segment of of bike of shop talk uh that we see people talking about. Sorry that we had to get into a new bike topic. That's okay. All right, so the next one is what grinds my gears. Okay, and yours is gonna be complicated. Yeah. Let me let's do mine first because I think mine's pretty simple. Okay. So a few weeks ago, we um well we've talked about on this podcast on the podcast before. I am not very active, but at least somewhat active in advocacy. Um I'm advocating to have some new trails built in my local area. I've actually built a proposal and designed the trail system. Uh kind of more on the maps, not a professionally designed system, but um I've done a bunch of trail work, continue to do a bunch of trail work. There's some local trails like right across the street from my house that that I help maintain. Uh every time it rains the next day, typically I'll go out first thing in the morning and like because in the desert, it's easy to move. It's easy to do tread work or work on the actual surface of the trail after the the sand and the dirt and clay is wet. Um, other times of year it's hard for us to do it because it's too dry, so you can't really shape. But uh if it rains for sure, I'll be out there with my shovel shaping and and you know, repairing erosion issues to make the trails better. And I spend quite a bit of time brushing, and when I hike my dog, uh brushing is just like cutting back, you know, overgrowth or cat for us in the southwest, cactus or cat claw or mesquite trees that will cut up your arms. Um but what grinds my gears is and maybe this isn't grind my gear, maybe this is just a public service announcement. Like those trails that you ride take a lot of work for the tread to be the actual surface of the trail to be in good shape, for the overgrowth to be cut back. Um it takes a lot of work, and that work is done primarily by volunteers. And so I believe that if you uh if you're a mountain biker, you should be doing a couple days, I think the bare minimum is like one day a year, but you should be doing a couple days of work to help contribute to the trails that we all ride. And if more people do that, you know, uh more hands make less work. Yeah. And so I think maybe instead of just saying this is something that grinds my gears, like make it a negative, maybe just make it a positive and like a motivator, like you know, reach out everywhere around the country and actually everywhere around the world, there are trail advocacy organizations. Reach out if you don't know who to go, go to your local bike shop, they'll know who they are. Yep. Um, and volunteer, you know, a couple hours here, a couple hours there to go help clean up, shape up, improve, fix whatever um, you know, the trails. And if you just absolutely don't have the time, well then you can volunteer with your checkbook and send some money to those trail or uh advocacy organizations. Um a lot of them have memberships and stuff like that. So I'd say like contribute to the trails that we all love uh to make them better and keep them in shape. Don't just go ride them.

Host - Dane Higgins 19:42

Yeah, I I think I think the negative versus positive is a a thing that everybody should should kind of keep an eye on because if you make it too negative, it sounds like a guilt trip.

Host - Josh Anderson 19:53

It is. And it like I sometimes post no dig, no ride, yeah, type things, and yeah uh and it comes across negative. I really mean it more of a positive, like, hey, and by the way, it's fun. We did a I did an event last weekend and we went out for like half a day. We took eight guys out, and we went and we cleared two and a half miles of trail. So just to put it in context, right? I think it took us three hours, eight guys, so twenty four man hours. That's how much it takes to clear, and it wasn't a trail that was eat it was the Hohokum trail. It wasn't a trail that was even like um in that bad a shape, but it took twenty-four man hours for us to go out and you know, clear all the we basically were just brushing, just clearing the cactus and clearing the mesquite trees and trees so that people wouldn't get cut up. Make give you a nice corridor to ride through.

Host - Dane Higgins 20:39

Yeah. I think uh so I take my kids when I go, and that that gives them kind of some ownership of the trail. Like they they come away thinking I worked on that trail. Yeah. That's something I've experienced, and that gives you way more I don't know, connection to the trail. It does. And a lot of people don't know that.

Host - Josh Anderson 20:56

Um like every time you ride by a section you worked on, you're like, I did that.

Host - Dane Higgins 21:00

Absolutely. One of my favorite trails to do right after work, just a short distance from work and easy lap, and there's one section that I got to work on, and I it was my idea to do it, and I worked on it, and it's now there, and I ride it every time. And it's still in the same general shape that you you put it in. Exactly. And and it's being used more because of what I did to it. Um, we go ride uh a mountain for downhilling in in uh northern Arizona called Sunrise. Yeah, and there's a trail that I built a drop on, and it's still there, and people still ride it, and every time I I ride it, I'm like, oh, I built that, you know. And and and it's funny, you know, there's people that get super into this. Like there's uh a couple guys, Chris, that we did a podcast with about Tonto, yeah, and then his buddy James, uh short bus James. Those guys just love this and they do it out of just total passion. You know, they almost never get any payment and they just have just this high level of passion that that is nice. If you see them, just ask them when you can go help. One day to them makes such a difference. It's a huge deal. Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 22:03

I mean, we can see that like we've had a number of advocacy groups from Torca to STMB to SDMBA to you know Tato Gravity. We've had a lot of different um fibers. We've had a lot of different trail advocacy organizations on. And the data shows us you guys don't like those episodes.

Host - Dane Higgins 22:21

Yeah, which listeners. Yeah, which surprises us. Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 22:27

Well, they don't they don't perform as well.

Host - Dane Higgins 22:28

Yeah. I think sometimes with uh when you're listening to bike stuff, you want to hear about the shiny bits. Blingy stuff. The blingy stuff. And and sometimes, you know, when you're talking about ride experience, it's better to have your own hearing about somebody else's isn't always I always thought because my wife really loves like there's another podcast, Trail Effect.

Host - Josh Anderson 22:46

Josh Bloom does it, great advocacy-oriented you know, podcast, and she loves that podcast because she learns about new places to ride. Yeah. And she doesn't really even care so much about her bike. She cares about like trail.

Host - Dane Higgins 22:57

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 22:58

Yeah. And like where you and me, it's like, yeah, cool trail's awesome.

Host - Dane Higgins 23:01

Yeah. What what bike did you take? What bike did you take?

Host - Josh Anderson 23:03

How is it set up? What tires were you using? You know, we geek out on the on the equipment.

Host - Dane Higgins 23:07

Yeah. So everybody's got their own likes. But uh, so I'll tell you about my my grinding. Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 23:13

So just before we before we switch, just I guess um try to help out somehow. Yeah. Make the trails a little better. And it could be as simple as like, honestly, man, if like yesterday I was riding a new trail at Fantasy Island, one of our local trails, and there was like a big piece of cat claw in the middle of the trail.

Host - Dane Higgins 23:30

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 23:31

And like I stopped my flow, which sucks to stop your flow. Yeah. Right. I got off my bike, I went over, I picked up that cat claw, I moved it off the trail. And then that was the only thing I did that whole ride. But I was like, all right, cool. Because I had seen that same thing there a few days ago. It was still there. So I was so I was like, okay, now that problem's taken care of. So I made the trail just like a little like 0.0001% better for the next guy, right?

Host - Dane Higgins 23:54

Or that rock that rolled into the middle that the next person may you know hit and get a flat or may you know send them to the ground. Um, I mean, we're not advocating sanitizing or doing anything crazy. No, no, no, no, no. Um, it's best to volunteer with a group that's got a lot of things. And I'm a I'm a trail steward, so I'm a trained trail steward. Yeah, so so keep that in mind, you know. But yeah, giving out giving a little bit when you're a mountain biker, and that's something we should teach to the new mountain biker. The new gen. Yeah, next gen. Not just the kids, but the new people. Yeah. You know, like when I come into the shop, we often will mention the trail advocacy and letting people know that that's that's part of them. You don't have to be, you know, you know, like some clubs you feel like you have to be super into it to be a part of them. Yeah. These clubs are more like you just want to keep stuff going.

Host - Josh Anderson 24:42

Just show up for a day. And it's it's a social event. Like when we did the trail day with eight guys, yeah. Like I caught up with, we ran into Craig today. Yeah. I caught up with Craig. He came out with me. Yeah. And when we did that trail day, and I I hadn't talked to him in like uh since the last time I talked to him was we we went to Inner Bike together. Oh, okay. In any any like long fashion, and I got to hear about like what's going on. He's gonna go do the trail divide, yep. Uh Continental Divide ride.

Host - Dane Higgins 25:03

With one of our guys, peanut butter.

Host - Josh Anderson 25:04

Yeah, and just had a blast just talking, listening to him prepare for the Continental Divide, and they're going south to north versus north to south. And what why are they doing that?

Host - Dane Higgins 25:13

And you can find out about new trails. All kinds of things. You can find out like you know, some places we'll have like a pizza party. Like, yeah, it's do it. Like it's it's worth it.

Host - Josh Anderson 25:22

Also a great place to meet single guys and single women.

Host - Dane Higgins 25:24

So yeah, well, I don't know about that.

Host - Josh Anderson 25:26

If you want to find like-minded people, come on, man. I'm trying to try to pump it up. I know let's let's move on. I I'm more worried about the pizza. I'm on the pizza and the beer, yeah. All right, I'm I'm on a soapbox, but help out if you can.

Why Reach Is Overhyped

Host - Dane Higgins 25:37

All right, what was your uh grind my gears? So mine is uh happening uh in the industry a lot, and uh there's gonna be a bunch of people that probably message us about this, but it's this overuse of the word um reach, of of the reach measurement on geometry and bikes. To determine what the right bike is for Yeah, man, I can't tell you how many people are so focused on the reach number and they don't really know what that number is or how it affects the size of the bike. And so what happens, so where I see it most is somebody's trying to decide between if they're a medium or a large or whatever, they're kind of feeling like they're in between. Right. And they're comparing reach numbers between bikes, and they're using that reach number to determine which size. And so some bike may have a long reach number, and another bike may have a short reach number, and they may both be mediums. Does that make sense? It does. And so then the customer or the person looking at the bike is getting confused on which size, you know? Yeah, yeah. And so uh I I guess the reason it grinds my gears is because reach is uh is the measurement from the bottom bracket horizontally over to the headset, and it does not take into account a lot of other factors that are important uh when you ride. Uh like for instance where your seat is, you know, and where your seat is in reference to your bottom bracket. That's very important to bike fitters, and that keeps your knees healthy and keeps you giving you the most power. And so reach is really a good number if you're a downhiller uh because you're standing the whole time. But as soon as you sit down and have to pedal, there's the uh there's this this uh there's no term for it, right? So basically if you take your reach number and you minus your effective top tube, which is the full length of the top of the bike, um that uh that uh no man's number, the one that's never represented, yeah, is very important to your fit uh and how far away your seat is from your cranks. And that's something that bike fitters will will really look at. Uh and so I hear these people you know constantly focused on their reach, but the bike's seat post angle has a lot more to do with your fit than the reach does.

Host - Josh Anderson 27:59

So what do you use? If you were if you let's say you're Dane Higgins in an alternate universe, yeah, and you don't support bike shops, you're gonna buy a direct-to-consumer bike. Yeah, this is definitely like the anti-Dane.

Host - Dane Higgins 28:11

Well, yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 28:12

Like what would you use to compare?

Host - Dane Higgins 28:14

So this is where it gets hard because reach is easy to compare between bikes. Yep. It's really easy and one number, just compare that one. And it's and it's a consistent number, and it doesn't depend on how tall you are. It tells you what you would effectively be the size of the frame. The problem is, is your fit is much more personal and everybody's different. They have short legs or long legs or short torso or long torso. And so that's what bugs me is it's not so much that you know people are using it, but they are overusing it as a a way to size the bike. And then they're getting really confused on which size. And so an example would be a Norco tend to have a pretty long reach, and they are longer bikes than maybe a comparable bike, you know. And so two mediums. Now Norco's getting rid of the what they call t-shirt size, so they don't call them small, medium, and large anymore. They call them S1, two, three. It seems like everybody's going to that. They they are because they want they don't want people to be because I identify as an extra large dude.

Host - Josh Anderson 29:20

Yeah. But I might need an like I ride a S4, I think. Which is a large. Which is a large.

Host - Dane Higgins 29:27

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 29:27

Actually, I write an S5.

Host - Dane Higgins 29:28

Yeah. But you don't want to call it a large size.

Host - Josh Anderson 29:30

I wouldn't call it a large, yeah, we'll call we'll call it S whatever.

Host - Dane Higgins 29:33

Yeah, exactly. And so that that's the some of the confusion that's kind of out there. Yeah. And if I'm buying off the couch, that's even harder for me, you know, because but if the bike manufacturer keeps telling me that the reach is all I need to look at, it just it's people are getting some.

Host - Josh Anderson 29:51

So I think what let me make sure I let me recap what you're saying. So you're like, it's an easy number, people are using it to size bikes, they're getting the bike with what they think is the quote right reach, and it's not the right bike.

Host - Dane Higgins 30:03

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 30:03

And that's what's frustrating you.

Host - Dane Higgins 30:06

Or or they're they're not really paying attention to what the bike is going to give them, yeah. And they're picking off of this overused term. And um, I think it's something that's uh an issue, that's a real issue. Because the reach number, so if you change your your geometry, the reach may change. We just had this happen with a customer who had a Mach 4 SL, uh, and then the new Mach 4 SL just dropped. Yep. Uh, and this is a pivot cross-country bike, and he loaded up his geometry in an AI, and AI told him he needed this particular stem. And he is wanting me, he's wanting, before we even got the bike, to order him this $350 stem, right? And uh and I'm looking at the geometry and I'm looking at his bike, and I'm like, these are so close. Why is he doing this? And I'm like, I told him, I I said, you should just take a pause. Let me build the bike, let me do some measurements. And so what I do when I build a bike is I take his current bike and I measure his dimensions on it, uh, versus where the cranks are, the height off the ground, a lot of different measurements. And I basically draw a picture. Is I mean it's really old school, but literally draw a picture and measure out the bike. That tracks your old. Yep, it's true. And um and then I take the new one, I build it, and then I set the bike up with those measurements so that his saddle is in the right height off the cranks. So it's pretty close, so it feels pretty similar to him. Yeah, so his body geometry is in the same place. And then we can address the bike. The I after I did this and did these measurements with his stuff, because we just swapped frames, the bike was identical. Like there was no reason to change anything. Right. And he was getting ready to spend $350 on a stem. He was like worried about, you know, does he need all these other things? Because he was focused on this reach adjustment. But the he didn't realize that how little that reach affected the actual fit of the bike. And so now he's on. So then, you know, I told him, I said, just ride it and you we can change this, you know. It's the right size, but we can change it if you need it. He emailed me back and said, This this thing rides even better than his other one. He goes, the fit is perfect, you know. So I did myself a s a s a disservice because we didn't sell him a new you know, stem or anything like that, but I got him the right bike and I took his stress out level down a little bit. But it was just this over overthinking of this reach adjustment that caused that.

Host - Josh Anderson 32:44

Well, as we got talking about this topic before we recorded here, we um I think decided that we're gonna try to bring on a guest who is a expert. He's from the the Brooks um university, which is part of Oxford in England.

Host - Dane Higgins 33:00

Yeah, yeah. Um try and get an expert to see how how wrong I am, or if I'm onto something.

Host - Josh Anderson 33:07

So so we're gonna bring on this guy, he's a senior lecturer um at the Brooks University, which is part of Oxford University in England, and uh get dorky, like super dorky on uh on geo and sizing and all that kind of stuff, so we can kind of really deep dive in it and hopefully be able to communicate it in a way that like is easy for our listeners to understand. I doubt that.

Host - Dane Higgins 33:29

We're gonna try. I think the whole reason it's getting overused is because it's really a hard concept to wrap your own. It is, it is. We need to make this simpler. It's yeah, and then they do that. Then they do the just use this number, you know, but it doesn't work that way. Geometry's never hard or never easy.

Host - Josh Anderson 33:45

So it's never been easy, but maybe there's a way. Maybe there's some kind of like composite we can pull a couple numbers together with ratios and like come up with a way. I don't know.

Host - Dane Higgins 33:55

I think that that that um leftover number, when you take reach minus top tube effective, is a number that's just start listing. And that will I it's it I I don't know what to call it, maybe C tube offset or something. I don't know what you would call it, but that number, you have to do the math and put it in there, but it's not in the geometry.

Host - Josh Anderson 34:15

But the problem is is that that's is is that dependent on where where your stem's at and where your stem is?

Host - Dane Higgins 34:20

No, no, it's remember, it's from the so reach is from the center of the stem. Yeah, I know the reach is, but the thing you're talking about. So effective top tube is from the center of the hot headset, basically over level on a level line. So, okay, so some of our listeners. So some of our listeners may not.

Host - Josh Anderson 34:36

That's what I'm trying to figure out is where's the endpoint of the saddle.

Host - Dane Higgins 34:39

So effective top tube, so there's a top tube measurement where if you were to take your bike and just measure the top tube, that'll give you a number. The problem with that is different angles of slope. So the the it may have a curve in it, and and your seat collar may be lower than another bike. So effective top tube goes from the same starting point, center of the headset, level, on a level plane, yep, to where it intersects the seat post, center of the seat post. And so that is the effective top tube measurement.

Host - Josh Anderson 35:08

Now that doesn't But the problem is is that where that seat post, it can't be the actual seat post, it's gotta be the seat where the seat post enters the frame. Because it would depend on how how tall you have your seat post, that number would change.

Host - Dane Higgins 35:22

No, it doesn't change because unless you somehow have your seat post below that, how often do you see a seat post below the headset? That doesn't happen. And so that the number always intersects.

Host - Josh Anderson 35:34

Okay, so if you extend because a seat post is straight, if you extend it all the way, regardless of how high you have it, if you extend it all the way to where it's on a horizontal plane, I think we've probably lost about half our listeners right now.

Host - Dane Higgins 35:46

I know. Well, this is why it gets different- But I understand.

Host - Josh Anderson 35:49

We've got to figure out a way to talk about this simply.

Host - Dane Higgins 35:51

Yeah, effective top tube, however, that's the distance from the headset to where it intersects your seat post on a level plane. So if you take a level from your headset and run a level, you know, like a framers level, straight across to your seat post. Yep, and find that height and then mark that and then measure that distance, you know, uh that that's your that's your effective top two. The problem with that number is it does not take into account where your cranks are. So but reach does. Yep. Okay, so your reach is basically that number right where it intersects where the the cranks are. Yeah. And so the leftover number is that number needs to be on the geometry charts. I think that would help I don't know how to to phrase it. And maybe the if we get this guy to come on, Lewis is his name, if we get him to come on and explain it, maybe he can help clean up this. Because it's it's a hard subject. This is why bike fitters are out there, because that reach number does not take into effect where your seat post is, and so if your seat post angle is slack and your seat post then ends up way back towards the rear wheel, your reach is not taking into account.

Host - Josh Anderson 37:10

Because it's coming because it's coming straight up from the bottom bracket.

Host - Dane Higgins 37:12

Yeah, well, no, no, yeah, because it's just calculated straight up from the bottom bracket. Exactly.

Host - Josh Anderson 37:17

And if you're in your in your seat post angle could go, you know, pitch forward, pitch backwards, whatever, that's different.

Host - Dane Higgins 37:23

So if you effectively have a steep seat tube, uh like a transition bike, right? Yep. Um, which really seats you straight over the cranks, or your saddle is gonna be close to over the cranks, great for climbing really steep fire roads. So, like in the PNW, that bike is is really popular. But on regular terrain, your knees are gonna be too far forward over your cranks, and you can develop knee issues. Um I'm I'm kind of exaggerating, you know. There's plenty of people that ride transition cross-country that don't have an issue, and then the bike itself will change. So a cross-country bike will have a different seat angle than uh Enduro bike or downhill bike. Yep. That frameworks that I borrowed and got to ride, the steep seat tube angle was almost negative. Like it was almost it was almost straight up and down. Like and one of the reasons the as the travel of the bike gets longer and longer is when that rear end is going through its full travel, the the wheel is actually getting close to the seat tube.

Host - Josh Anderson 38:20

And so if you drop your C post, you could be slamming your butt.

Host - Dane Higgins 38:25

Yeah, yeah. And also if you have too slack of a seat tube angle on a long travel bike, it's impossible to pedal. It'll well no it'll it'll limit your wheel travel. So as it comes through, your wheel can tap, which is one more selling feature for mullets because they get rid of that problem.

Host - Josh Anderson 38:41

So this is a perfect transition to our next topic. Okay. Unless so you want to go over the bigger.

Host - Dane Higgins 38:46

No, but that's my my grinding, my gear gears. So this is really over overuse of reach. Overuse of that for what we have just talked about in the last 20 minutes of a very technical and very complicated subject. And it's just so that people can buy a bike from their couch rather than going in and sitting on it and getting a real feel for it and having somebody look at it and go, This is not the right size for you. Not the right size for you. They've they're trying to make it so that you can click a button rather than really figure out what's the right size. Yeah. That's my that's my grinding.

Are 32-Inch Wheels Real

Host - Josh Anderson 39:19

Yep. All right. So we'll move on to the next one hype cycle. Uh, you know, what are people hyped about? And uh or or what is hyped in the industry right now? We had one hypernot. Is it hype or not? Yeah. And uh the first one, and everyone's talking about it, but like as a tall rider at six foot three, I am excited about this, and that is 32-inch wheels. Everyone's talking about it. It was all over Seattle, it was all over Taipei, whatever. Where what do you think about it?

Host - Dane Higgins 39:49

Man, uh I was a never 29er.

Host - Josh Anderson 39:54

Yep.

Host - Dane Higgins 39:54

So back in the day when 29 came out, they were wagon wheels, they were too cumbersome, too slow, like 26 is better, you know.

Host - Josh Anderson 40:04

Okay, these are all the things you were saying. Yeah, and I just and the geometry sucked balls, they hadn't figured it out, and so the bikes actually were pretty shitty for a minute.

Host - Dane Higgins 40:12

And I was wrong. I was wrong because 29 took over and they made it work. So now I want to feel the same way. I don't I think it's over. I don't think we need it. I don't think it's important, I think the same things are gonna happen. But I also feel like I every bike that I have is 29. So now is that gonna happen with 32? Um, somebody made a a good remark where they said, you know, 29 kind of happened from people wanting it and pushing and forcing the bike industry to do it. It took a long time of people saying this needs to happen. And when I say people, I mean not necessarily the the ones that can make it happen. Right. They they wanted it and it took a while for it to get adopted. This seems to be coming almost from the other way, and I'm not sure who it is that's pushing the 32 as a concept, and that's kind of weird. I don't feel like there's a bunch of bike packers out there that are like, oh, we need 32s, or a bunch of touring people that are like we need 32s. I can't figure out who it is that's like we need a 32, except for it's us tall people. Yeah, but do you think do you think that's I mean, well, I'm I'm not tall, I'm average, so yeah. Is that something where you're like, God, I wish my wheels were bigger?

Host - Josh Anderson 41:30

I would say like if you look at a picture of me on my bike, and I'm not I'm six foot three, I'm not giant, right? I'm a little bit above average height. It even on a 29er, it looks like I'm riding a kid's bike.

Host - Dane Higgins 41:44

Yeah, and and imagine when you were on a 26.

Host - Josh Anderson 41:46

Right. I have looked at those pictures and it's hilarious.

Host - Dane Higgins 41:49

Yeah, you look back at that. All of the old 26s were all short.

Host - Josh Anderson 41:52

Yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins 41:53

And and you look at a new bike now and they're all long. Longer wheelbase and all that, yeah. So I don't know, man. I I I I as somebody who has to stock stuff, and now I have to stock another tire, another wheel, another all this stuff. Another set of forks. I would say I'm not totally opposed because I learned my lesson with 29. They they are better uh in most cases. I think 27s are amazing in some cases, and I think there's people that just develop a taste, and I I love that they have that taste, uh, that they can get what they want. I think that's good for 32ers. I think it's gonna be a while before they're really uh adopted, and I don't think they're gonna fully be adopted. I don't think they're gonna be adopted like 29 was. I we we see people, Emily Batty was riding 29 treks, you know, like she's tiny, you know. Yeah. Um and you're starting to see the same stems that they were kind of custom making for her to get her bars low enough. Yeah, the drop stems in the front, yeah. Are now starting to show up on the 32s. So who knows, you know.

Host - Josh Anderson 42:59

As far as like availability, I know that you can get an aspen tire right now. I know that everybody and their brother, not everybody, but a bunch of companies showed tires. I think Max's showed a full line from a dissector all the way down like five or six different 32-inch tires that I think they're coming out with. We did a little research uh post-ride while we were at the Mexican place having lunch, and uh it looks like you know, intend is probably the only production, unless you do something weird, like what Nico did at Seattle, where he modified a Fox podium, and that's got its own challenges and problems.

Host - Dane Higgins 43:36

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 43:36

But uh there was also a Fox 34, 32 inch that was shown. I've seen a lefty. A rad. A lefty makes a lot of sense, actually.

Host - Dane Higgins 43:45

Yeah, because uh Keener, who's a a guy in town who's built bikes, he's been riding thirty six inch wheels for easily over ten years now.

Host - Josh Anderson 43:55

Yeah, he's the one that's got the two like a rotor on each side because you gotta have brakes on both sides.

Host - Dane Higgins 43:59

Yeah. And so you'll y if you l if you kind of Google Greg Keener and and 36 inch, there's also Dirty Sixer, right? Is the brand that does 36 inch. Okay. So it kind of blew me away that 36 wasn't what people came out with, because those are out and being made. And so like you'll every once in a while you'll see like some sort of NBA like basketball player will get a customer.

Host - Josh Anderson 44:24

And they're basically riding like unicycle tires, right?

Host - Dane Higgins 44:26

That that's where they came from. There's a unit and so um six so something that a lot of people don't know 650B or 27.5 is a result of like a touring size that was in Europe, and people were starting to put them on bikes, and so you could slightly get these things. So the the people were kind of you know just modifying bikes, they were cutting uh bridges out of frames so that they could fit these bigger tires, and and that's where 275 came from. I can't remember where 29 came from if it was the same kind of evolution, Carrie Fisher. Yeah, but but um there's uh there's usually a product that they can get that they can modify to make work on a bike. And so this one seems like it's coming from the manufacturer, because I don't know of a 32 product that's being used that people can adopt for bikes.

Host - Josh Anderson 45:18

People are super stoked. Well, yeah, so a couple tires out, more coming. You know, you can get the intend uh fork. Uh it looks to us like RockShock and Fox are gonna have some stuff out. Yeah, Fox had a rage out there.

Host - Dane Higgins 45:32

X Fusion has a gravel fork that they may be making into a mountain, and then SunTour showed a full uh uh now. Interesting, Sun Tour makes castings for almost all the manufacturers of bikes.

Host - Josh Anderson 45:46

Yeah, we've talked about that in the past.

Host - Dane Higgins 45:47

And so the fact that the guys uh were so stoked that there's a fox, you know, casted. It's probably the same as the radon. It's probably coming out of that factory. I mean, don't quote me, but chances are that the uh you you can't just cast a uh magnesium very easily. So and now um mana two, I think, is making some modifications. I've seen some modifications where they just stick like a little thing at the bottom of the fork that just lowers the axle.

Host - Josh Anderson 46:14

Interesting.

Host - Dane Higgins 46:14

Yeah, so like who knows, you know. And then of course there's all the the double uh or upside down. Yeah, inverted forks that can that can do a lot of modifi. I think Ren is a company, it makes a single crown. Um I've seen a bunch of those. Inverted. Yep, yeah. I've worked on a couple of those for.

Host - Josh Anderson 46:34

So I I'm thinking 27. Like we're gonna see some one-off or s or smaller run products now. You know, new houses got a 32 that you can buy. You know, I think it's gonna be 27 before we see anything. 2027. 2027. Yeah. We gotta we gotta specify because we're throwing out a lot of numbers. Yeah, 20 to 32.

Host - Dane Higgins 46:52

Well, that's like the 32 fork. If you Google that, you're gonna see a lot of 32. Yeah, Fox 20. Not a 32-inch. Yep, exactly. Um, but uh yeah, I it's uh yeah. I'm I think it's probably gonna be a good four years, maybe five, before they have something that's like really that appeals to a mass market that's not the specialty item.

Host - Josh Anderson 47:13

Well, I imagine I'm gonna at least try to demo one, being a taller rider, and just see. Uh you know, I've heard that they the reviews that I've heard, I've heard that they're they went once they get up and going, they're super fast.

Host - Dane Higgins 47:25

Yeah. Um so it'll be interesting to see. What do you think? Uh you think that's gonna be good or bad on a tight windy course?

Host - Josh Anderson 47:33

I mean, it feels like it would be bad on a tight windy course because you can't turn as well.

Host - Dane Higgins 47:37

Yeah, here's the crazy thing. I think that wheel size would be way better on a gravel bike. I think that's like the place that it would be really, really the best. I mean, it depends on how you ride a gravel bike, but yeah, if you're just riding long dirt roads, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it just smooths it out a little bit more. Your gravel bikes tend to be a little more rigid.

Host - Josh Anderson 47:56

So, what our listeners don't know is Dane's kind of digging at me right now because I bought a titanium gravel bike.

Host - Dane Higgins 48:01

No, no, that's a genuine thought. I wasn't digging at you.

Host - Josh Anderson 48:04

I bought a titanium gravel bike and I thought this is gonna be my forever gravel bike. I'm never gonna have to buy another one. Dane's like, you know what, it would be perfect for you with a 32-inch gravel bike. I'm like, God damn it.

Host - Dane Higgins 48:14

Man, I remember uh buying my first store-bought mountain bike. Yeah. And it was a Trek 7000. I was really, really excited. Uh rigid fork, uh, cantilever brakes. It had like SLX. No, I don't even know if SLX, it was LX. I can't remember what was on it, but I was so excited and I went and bought it. And probably six months later, they came out with a new version and had a fork, uh suspension fork on it. You're like, damn it! And I I learned that lesson a long time ago that uh you know what? It's it's every year there'll be something different. There'll always be something better. It's always gonna come out. Don't get upset, just love what you got.

Host - Josh Anderson 48:49

We just got into that because I had you get a I put a I put the 38 on my gorilla, yeah. The Fox 38 on my gorilla. I didn't like it.

Host - Dane Higgins 48:55

Yep.

Host - Josh Anderson 48:56

It's an older, it's not the new one, it's an older one. Yeah, it's too stiff for me. Just I couldn't get it dial, didn't feel good. And so I I love the Zeb. So I'm like, buy me a Zeb. And you're like, Josh, you know, in like a couple months the new Zeb's coming out. I'm like, just buy me the Zeb. Like, I know I love that fork. I ride it on one of my bikes. I know what it does. I love it. Just buy me the Zeb. I know that the new one's coming out. It's got butter wagons or whatever.

Host - Dane Higgins 49:19

Well, we didn't even know for sure, but we just knew a new one was coming. Yeah, and it's but all right, what's next? What are we?

Host - Josh Anderson 49:26

Okay, so uh the so we're still on uh the hype stuff and Brembo brakes. Yeah, so so tell it what do you know about Brembo?

Host - Dane Higgins 49:35

But like before we get into their I mean they're they do um you know race car and motorcycle brakes.

Host - Josh Anderson 49:40

Uh Formula One.

Host - Dane Higgins 49:42

Yeah, I want to say my one of my motorcycles had Brembos on it, and uh they're really high-end. Like you'll see a lot of times they're red calipers, like you see a Porsche go by and there's you can see the red calipers. Yeah, I I could be talking out of my ass because that could be something else, but I I know that they do high-end stuff, uh, moto and auto stuff. So and I definitely know the name. So uh and so then they release these new breaks, and they were first seen on the World Cup course with on the specialists. Yeah, right. And uh people didn't even know what they were, they didn't have the names on them, and they were just kind of speculating, and then they popped up at Sea Otter this year, and they're they're kind of cool. Um, I don't know, man. I I again I'm trying not to be a crotchety old person. I'm trying to embrace new stuff. I I don't know if they're gonna be like the end-all beat all the price is high, they're kind of keeping the 800 bucks, right?

Host - Josh Anderson 50:35

Yeah, 400 wheel.

Host - Dane Higgins 50:37

Yeah, 2.3 thickness rotors, so pretty thick rotors.

Host - Josh Anderson 50:41

Yep. They look when you look at them, they look like moto brakes.

Host - Dane Higgins 50:45

Like they're beefy. Yeah, I mean, a negative term. If I was a marketing department, the meg negative term was they're bulky, yeah. Kind of kind of big and bulky. Um, but you know, uh they've got these, you know, lots of different adjustments, which are exciting. And there's one in particular. It's new.

Host - Josh Anderson 51:02

That one, the new one is not on any other bike, right?

Host - Dane Higgins 51:04

Or not on any other brake. Uh, so I don't know yet because sometimes you hear something and then you realize it's the same thing as somebody else is doing, but they just made it sound.

Host - Josh Anderson 51:14

So I've never heard of it. Maybe you can correct me, or maybe someone will correct us, but like I've never heard of this type of adjustment. So there's reach adjustment.

Host - Dane Higgins 51:21

I so I that's normal. Yeah. The reason I say this is because hope is famous for the amount of break uh adjustments that are. And then there's some things when you say the the word free stroke, you know. Yep, that people uh bite point engagement, things like that. Like they're you're like, okay, what's going on? And then you find out mechanically what's going on, and it's not as not as glamorous. You know, and so like these these are supposed to have 40 uh position tool-free reach adjustments, so you can move the lever in and out. Okay, right?

Host - Josh Anderson 51:54

That's that's sounds. I mean, pretty much every high-end brake will have that.

Host - Dane Higgins 51:58

Yeah, for the most part. And and I don't personally care if you have to use a tool. I'm not doing it right.

Host - Josh Anderson 52:03

And that's just like how far out your levers are or how close to the bottom in their in their like standard, yeah, like unwhatever pulled position.

Host - Dane Higgins 52:11

Yeah, so you can you can fit your length of finger, just whatever your preference is. Yeah, yeah. And then they have a seven-level bite point, which they then may be like a free stroke.

Host - Josh Anderson 52:24

And it's but that's pretty typical too, right? On high-end brakes?

Host - Dane Higgins 52:27

It is. It may be changed a little different with how you do it. Okay. Okay. And then this is the the one that they call, they call it a three position lever ratio setting, soft, medium, and hard. And so that is the part that I'm not a hundred percent sure how it works, but essentially, you know, one position maybe you know, gives you a real firm, you know, initial, you know, uh bite that basically feels probably closer to a Shimano. How the as soon as you put it on, it it wants to like, you know, just just immediately give you power. Right. And then I'm sure the medium is in the middle and maybe like a haze, and then the soft is probably where you have to pull more and give it more power, and that's probably more like a shram.

Host - Josh Anderson 53:16

So and and I sent you a video last night. There's a really good video, it's about 15 minutes long. Oh, sorry, I'm playing I'm playing it here in the background. You can hear it, sorry. But uh I watched it. Um it's MBUK. Yeah, it's the Brembo GR Pro review, and like it in the first five minutes they talk through all the specs. He does a really good job here, so shout out to MBUK for this. But then and then he rides it and he's and he kind of switches those three soft, medium, and hard. Yeah. And he was explaining it like this could be a break that feels like haze or shram in the soft setting, or it can be a break that feels like Shimano in the hard setting.

Host - Dane Higgins 53:55

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 53:55

And he was while he was riding it, he was like, This feels like a Shimano break, this feels like a shram or a haze break. Um, so you can really tune it to like what you like.

Host - Dane Higgins 54:05

Yeah. I just don't know how they do it. I want to take one apart and see. Is it just so a lot of these new brakes have uh like a linkage inside? Like a lot of people, you know, don't think about what's in their brake or what's happening. So like Shimano has a has a roller in theirs. Right. And as the lever is pulling or pushing the rod, um, there's an arc uh that happens, and it has this roller that follows a certain route, and as that arc changes, it changes how much power or how fast the lever being pulled to the lever is activating the plunger that's actually pushing the hydraulics. And so that little linkage in the way they do that. So like uh Shram.

Host - Josh Anderson 54:48

You want to break one of these things apart? See what's going on.

Host - Dane Higgins 54:51

Yeah, like so. Shram just developed another another internal, so on their Maven brakes. So they were they're they revised their Maven. They're not saying that their Mavens need a whole over, you know, haul, but they're doing I don't know. I I got the uh I got the ones on the bike right now and pretty happy with them. I'll tell you, if you buy Mavens, count on having to bleed them again. Just just I'll I'll tell you right now. Uh like bleed them and do the piston massage. Yeah, you're you're gonna have to do that. Don't don't get mad when you have to do it, because I'm telling you, you have to do it.

Host - Josh Anderson 55:26

Shram products take more work.

Host - Dane Higgins 55:27

Well, yeah. I I yes, I will tell you that product for sure. Uh um, but so far, so good. I'm I'm you know, I'm you're digging it. I'm not I'm not upset with them. You haven't had what I what I had several times. I did. I had one lever go a little soft on me.

Host - Josh Anderson 55:43

My right hand was like all like you were with me on one of the rides where it went all the way to the it wouldn't stop, it went all the way to the handlebar.

Host - Dane Higgins 55:50

Not quite like that, and it I fixed it, no problem. But um we'll see. You know, I've only got like four rides on them. So and these are my first Maven actually owning them and not just riding them on a bike.

Host - Josh Anderson 56:02

You got anyone coming in the shop asking for Brembos?

Host - Dane Higgins 56:04

Not yet. Um yeah, I wonder. I I don't know. I don't know what everybody's take is on it because I personally am not thrilled about the looks. They look kind of bulky and just cumbersome.

Host - Josh Anderson 56:18

Um I gotta see it in person. Like it's hard to tell like size ratio. Like, I don't know.

Host - Dane Higgins 56:25

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 56:26

Some people have big hands, some people have little hands. They're definitely they look like motorcycle brakes to me.

Host - Dane Higgins 56:30

They're definitely the levers, anyways. Yeah, yeah. They're marketing for the downhill crowd, and the downhill crowd, you know, respectfully doesn't care as much about bulk or weight because they're going downhill. They want to be able to stop and and stop.

Host - Josh Anderson 56:43

They're adding they're adding weights to their bike. Yes, yeah, yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins 56:46

So they're not as weight weenie, you know. So you're not gonna see these show up on a on a super light cross-country bike, but um we'll see. We'll see. Uh TRPs look bulky to me and people love them, those EV DHs, Evo DHs. And uh I like the the Haze, and they're kind of dainty looking, you know, so they're not very small comparative. Yeah. Um, I rode the new XTs, by the way. What'd you think? Uh I liked them. I'm I'm I didn't Is it any different? Is it the on off feel? A little bit still on off, but most of the drawbacks that I experienced with past generations I didn't have. One drawback I don't know if it's gonna happen or not, which is that pad contamination issue.

Host - Josh Anderson 57:25

Um if that keeps happening, then it's just that was one thing that the MBUK guy said, and I'm sorry that I didn't memorize his name, but he said that those Brembos were noisy.

Host - Dane Higgins 57:34

Yes, yeah, and and I don't know what people think is noisy.

Host - Josh Anderson 57:38

Yeah, you know it depends on what you're basing on.

Host - Dane Higgins 57:40

The new new Shimano's they changed the shape of the pads and they kind of made it so that they don't rattle as much. And I don't know if I've ever heard that rattle, uh, but it's enough to wear if they're changing the design, you know.

Host - Josh Anderson 57:54

There's a couple interesting things with the Brembos, they're using uh they're using a low viscosity mineral oil. Yeah. Similar to what, well, I mean, I guess I don't know if it's similar or not, but like Shimano and their new XT and XTR brakes just went to a low viscosity mineral oil. They have eighty millimeter pistons, two of them on each side, right, coming in, so four per caliper. And the pistons actually are made of two different materials.

Host - Dane Higgins 58:18

Yeah, so there's uh supposed to be heat dissipation, right?

Host - Josh Anderson 58:22

Right, that can help separate the heat. So for some reason, these two different materials help keep the heat from transferring, I guess, from the rotor onto into the caliper.

Host - Dane Higgins 58:33

It's not quite clear to me how that works, but well, yeah, because that's where I mean that's that friction of the pads. Yeah, you know.

Host - Josh Anderson 58:40

So somehow it helps helps manage the heat better by having the two different uh material pistons.

Host - Dane Higgins 58:45

You know what it kind of occurred to me like if you're gonna ask somebody to make a mountain bike brake, it it would make sense, you know, that uh a brake company, yeah, Formula One company would would make them. That would make sense, you know. Um Hayes does that for Harley Davidson and for heavy machinery. Yep. And then Magura is Moto.

Host - Josh Anderson 59:06

Yeah.

Host - Dane Higgins 59:07

Uh so they're some of our our main Shimano is not. Shimano makes fishing gear. Fishing gear and bikes. So like if you have to stop a f a fishing pole real quick, they're the ones to talk to. I just gotta dig a little bit because you're such a fanboy. Um and then Shram.

Host - Josh Anderson 59:24

Yeah, if you listen to her last episode, you know. It was like a loved letter to Shimano. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my rep called. Your Shimano rep. My Shimano rep was like that episode's awesome. And your Shram guy hasn't responded. He hasn't called you back. Yeah, rightfully so.

Host - Dane Higgins 59:41

They don't they're not public. But I was gonna say shram brakes, you know, like people complain about shram brakes, but shram is, you know, they don't have any pedigree in anything else other than bikes. So yeah. I mean, I'm sure that I'm sure their designers and other people do that they've brought, but the company itself does. If I've learned anything, most of the engineers in in cycling came from somewhere else too. And they they came from some outside business. We talked to Ryan over at is it Bear and uh Bear Innovations Innovations, yeah, and he worked for GTE, Cannondale, and then he worked for a rally car company for a while. And he does rally car work today, right? And now he's doing mountain bike products again, and so uh I think that's I think that's pretty common.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:00:22

You know, back to Brembo, there was another thing in the research that I don't know how I missed this, or maybe I I saw it, but um they actually acquired Owens in January of 2025. Oh, that so you have now suspension and brakes together. Yeah, and that that seems interesting to me because I think suspension and brakes work together in the performance of the vehicle.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:00:45

It's funny that Fox hasn't come out with a brake. Yeah, I guess. I feel like you know, they could come out with a brake. Or maybe, maybe somebody else, like uh, what's another brake company that's huge?

Host - Josh Anderson 1:00:58

Another brake company that's huge, like well, Hayes has got Manitou.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:01:01

Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:01:02

And then Shram has got RockShox and Shram Brake. Oh, that's true. Now Olens, now Brembo has Olens and Brembo.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:01:12

Shimano just needs to buy Fox.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:01:15

That's it.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:01:16

Right? And they do work together.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:01:18

Can you imagine how good the Fox products would become if Shimano owned them?

Host - Dane Higgins 1:01:22

It's funny because uh, you know, Fox and Shimano work together all the time. They're they're buddies, let's put it that way. Okay. You know, they're not owned or anything, but uh they're definitely collaborate well. Because those two can team up against Shram. You know, Shram's got everything. And Shram's got everything, yeah. Yeah, it makes sense. And then Hayes is on the outside, just doing their own thing.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:01:42

Don't forget about Manate.

Best Value Wheels And Saddles

Host - Dane Higgins 1:01:43

They're they're not even trying. Like hey, I I feel like Hayes doesn't even try in market. Um, oh, you know, that's a good segue to our next section, which is um our next section is budget. Budget or bang for the buck. Yeah. Yeah.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:01:55

So I have no idea what where you're oh I do know where you're going. Yeah. Okay, so Hayes. Bang Bang for the Buck products. Go ahead and you can start with your your bang for the breakfast.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:02:03

Yeah, so uh this little section is about things that we think are a good deal and and and uh probably maybe not the most expensive thing, but something that that people could get.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:02:13

Inexpensive quality products.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:02:14

Yeah, exactly. And so um uh the reason I brought up it after talking about Hayes is Hayes is a big company that owns Manitou, and they own Pro Taper, and they own Sunringley, and they own uh Reynolds. And I just saw the new Reynolds aluminum wheels. So I'm a huge fan of the carbon ones. Right. Um and I sell a ton of them because they have a great warranty that gives you a good peace of mind.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:02:39

And is that warranty for both the aluminum and the and they just extended it to the aluminum too?

Host - Dane Higgins 1:02:43

And so they're warranty. Is it a lifetime warranty? Lifetime warranty, and they they they're very forgiving about it. If it's under normal riding, they'll you most likely likely take care of you. You have personal experience with this? Yeah, we've had customers that have that have had a uh Reynolds wheel, kind of smacked it and broke it on their own, uh, not really a defect, and Reynolds would take care of him. We had one guy case a jump and crumple his wheel, they sent him a new wheel. We had uh one where uh the guy uh ripped out a hub, you know, which was a defect, and they sent him back an I-9 hub in his wheel. That's cool. Yeah, and then we've had uh Babyfoot, you know, who's been on the podcast. Yeah he's gone through a couple rims where he just hits him, you know, and puts a crack in the rim. And truthfully, I pretty much named about all of the warranties that we've had in many, many years of selling them.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:03:36

So that's not very pivots, you don't you got you believe in the Reynolds products because you they don't come back often.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:03:41

I ride the wheels and I haven't had one. My old downhill bike had the uh Bernard Kerr uh Reynolds downhill wheels, and bootleg canyon in Nevada is super jaggedy, and I've ridden down at full race pace with a flat tire before, and those wheels survived that with no inserts. Uh I think I had Cushcore. Did you? Okay. Yeah. I'm not 100% sure, but I kind of was mad at my bike and I was coming down. So you were you were trying to break it. Vengeful, yeah. Unconsciously, yeah, but trying to. My wallet was not going to be happy, and I got to the bottom, and I couldn't believe that my wheel was intact. And so how much are the uh Reynolds aluminum wheels? So they got three different levels, if I think maybe two. Two levels. Expert and pro. Expert and pro, thank you. Yep. Uh they've got XC, they've got like a trail, and then they've got like an enduro DH. Yep. And so pricing wise, I may not have it fully accurate, but I'll give you at least on the um We looked at the trail and the XE. Yeah, and so it's uh a set of um the experts is like 500 bucks, which is a really good deal.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:04:52

So a a decent good wheel set. Yeah. Lifetime warranty, yep, front and rear, yep, five hundred bucks.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:04:58

Yeah, I looked at the weights too on the XEs and they're pretty competitive weights. Like their pro XE is light.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:05:05

That's a little bit more expensive.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:05:06

Yeah, it's 750, I think, for the set, and I want to say the weights were coming in at like 1500 grams. And so um to compare to another brand that I love a lot is DT Swiss. So a DT Swiss 1700 wheels typically floats around 1700 grams. It's one of the reasons they use that number. Right. And so those wheels are around 1200 bucks, and so you're getting a little bit lighter wheel with the uh with the Hayes or with the Reynolds, right? And it's 750 bucks, it's almost half the price.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:05:39

I don't have any experience on the Reynolds carbon or on the Reynolds aluminum, but I do have a set of Reynolds carbon rims that I ride on my Epic, and they've been bulletproof for yeah over a year, and I'm a big dude. Yeah, yeah, right. So I'm putting a lot of pain into those wheels, and they're they're chugging along, dude.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:05:56

Yeah, so that's my bang for the book. I'm I don't even have them in the shop yet. I'm gonna get some in the shop, but I think that's going to be a pretty solid. So the we we also talked about this. One of the reasons that I do like that product also is because you can get it in uh their wheels in 157 and as a uh super boost. Yeah, pivot dealer, we carry those. You can also get different hub bodies. So if you buy these wheels for one bike and then switch them to another or or what have you, you can change the hub body.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:06:24

And what Dane is talking about is is um different uh cassettes require different types of hub bodies whether it's a XD spline for shram or a micro spline for Shimano or the old HG for many different brands. You can get all three of those you think?

Host - Dane Higgins 1:06:43

Yeah yeah uh no no not sure about H HG. I think HG is kind of it's weird. Uh shram just released or with their T type they now have an HG compatible T type cassette. Yeah. And that is huge. So they don't make a micro spline one but they make an XD one. But an HG allows a lot of people that to upgrade to T type um if they didn't normally have that without buying a wheel or a hub body. So those are things in the bike shop that we have to think about. We have to think about will this stuff actually fit your bike and how much extra to put this stuff on your bike if you don't have the right fitment.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:07:19

So I'll s I'll save my uh my comments and experience with Shimano aluminum wheels the XT aluminum wheels for different podcasts and stuff we can do those next bang for the buck because they are a good wheel. Yeah it's a good wheel so I've got a lot of experience with those. Alright so uh so my product for Bang for the buck was um so I ride WTB saddles I ride the volt. Me too there's many different levels of that saddle which basically is just the rail material and then weight and as you get more exotic or or yeah I guess more exotic than the rail material from steel to chromoly to titanium to carbon the weight goes down and the price goes up. But for the budget it's the steel and they're 65 bucks. The chromoly no it's steel is the cheapest then chromoly is a little bit more expensive. I'll I'll double check if you want while we're talking I'm pretty sure because I researched this yesterday to make sure I had this right. Yeah it was steel then chromoly which kind of makes sense to me that steel would be cheaper than chromole right? Yeah yeah chromoly is like a better steel so chromoly is steel but it's a better so steel's the cheapest at 65 bucks chromoly is a little bit more expensive. Titanium's a step function more expensive and then carbon if you're like you know a feather light person I think is even more expensive. But I've had I've got volts on every one of my bikes they ride fantastic it's not just the volt they have actually six different models they have the the volt the coda the speed the pure the devo and the silverado so for different size butts different butts did you know that your volt comes in widths? I did.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:08:56

Yeah I used the medium width believe it or not yeah not only and then they come in different foam densities. That I didn't know I didn't either uh I mean I did but I didn't so uh they even have a gel version which is really hard to wow to nail down um so yeah so like for instance I had a volt on my Norco fluid yep and it had so much more padding than my but we don't standard volt.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:09:23

So let me just I didn't research the different density cushion yeah to see if there's different price points there. Yeah that's why I say that standard yeah the standard steel volt is 65 bucks. Actually the steel version of all those saddles that I just read off are 65 bucks. Maybe there's other options that I didn't see yesterday but that for like what's my budget thing yeah like if like saddles can go crazy expensive 350 bucks right yeah uh and I've had many really expensive I used to ride Brooks saddles and I had all kinds of super expensive things right um but that's $65 steel and it's and it's you know there's like 70 grams between the steel version and the titanium version it's not a huge number. No in in the weight savings. But uh yeah so that was my budget is the is the steel steel railed volt.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:10:12

I think that's a great bang for the buck.

Tubeless Valve Core Fixes

Host - Josh Anderson 1:10:14

So right on man all right uh I got one public service announcement and I think we're done. Okay. And so that public service announcement is this um is it about e-bikes? It's not I promised we wouldn't talk anymore about e-bikes just okay five minutes. All right I had a um I've got those Reynolds wheels back to the Reynolds on my Epic. Okay. I am running uh airliners from Vittoria that's the kind of Kushcore competitor right yep yep yep liner I've got Vitoria uh Barzo and Mazcal on it and I've been running that configuration and when you when you buy the airliners it comes with a stem or a uh a valve stem a valve and the reason it comes with a specific valve is you have to um if you use just like a standard stands valve or something the air comes out right at the end and that and the actual um uh liner can like cover the valve. Yeah yeah and on these ones they're kind of like you see a lot of high flow valves that are set up this way that actual air comes out the sides yep and there's a there's a stopper so that stopper kind of like like butts up against the liner and then the air can come out the sides. So I've got those valve core or those valves uh in that bike and for whatever reason I couldn't um it just wouldn't I couldn't get air in the tire in both the front and the back.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:11:46

Okay.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:11:46

And and it just and I've got a really nice park you know inflator that's attached to my you know compressor. And so it's like what the hell's going on here? Long story short I just pull out the valve stem cores and they're just completely gummed and gucked and I put in like one dollar worth of Alibaba cores. Yeah I don't know if you should buy Alibaba cores or not but I had some yeah and I put them in there and the bike's working perfectly so if you're having a hard time getting air into your tires it could be something as simple as just unscrew the valve core and put a super cheap I mean even if you buy a nice one I think they're like three bucks.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:12:27

Yeah we at at the shop we often will we pull the valve to inflate or to put sealant in the tires and if they look crappy we'll replace them because they're like a buck. You know and they're super cheap. It's a good hack. It's funny I I with suspension we deal with um shrader valve cores you know uh because they're in a lot of suspension and I have I had one piece that came in I don't know last week and every time I put a Schrader core into the uh shock it would lose air and then I would pull it out and there's like this rubber um seal that goes in and kind of seats. Uh-huh and every time I'd pull them out it would stay in there. So then I'd put another one in.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:13:14

If you're putting one on top of the other one and top of the other one.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:13:16

And so then I opened up the shock and you can get into the backside of that where it's letting the air in and there's like three or four of these little and I couldn't figure out what it was but yeah one of them had gotten kinked or stuck and it was acting like a little tire lever and pulling the the the jacket off each one of every subsequent one and it's so I had to clean that thing out and figured out why it was losing air and the customer was like yeah it's just losing air and and I I'm like your valve core's leaking so that's easy and then it wasn't that easy so but it was pretty funny. So yeah there's um on the back of the presta cores that you put in tubeless there's um when you push that little plunger down on the prestable on there.

Host - Josh Anderson 1:13:59

And that's what actually what seals it when you twist it.

Host - Dane Higgins 1:14:01

Yeah and that often will get gummy or it'll actually fall out and be gone. Yeah and then you don't have anything to skip it. Yeah and so the the some of the sealants kind of are are not happy like they mess with that stuff. So not just clogging but they also kind of degrade it. Alright brother you got any final thoughts for our listeners that's it man go go dig on a trail and uh ride your bike. Buy some bolts buy some Reynolds wheels yeah check out the Reynolds I'll I'll I'll have a set soon so