Discover what it takes to merge the entrepreneurial drive with the intricate world of law as we introduce you to Spencer May, a driven first-year law student from the University of Arizona. Spencer's transition from sales at ADP to the legal field is not just a career change; it's a strategic move influenced by his lifelong exposure to business through his wife's family and his own professional journey. This episode peels back the layers of his ambition to become a business-facing lawyer, offering up stories that reveal the nuances of cultivating a legal practice with a sharp business edge.
Ever wondered how law students snag those coveted positions? Listen closely as Spencer and I unpack the power of forging connections and leveraging career services, unearthing tips for aspiring lawyers to stand out in the job market. As Arizona leads the charge in non-lawyer law firm ownership, we also discuss the seismic shifts this could bring to traditional practice management. Our conversation navigates the less-trodden paths of launching and scaling a law firm, with a spotlight on branding and the psychological hurdles lawyers often encounter when approaching their practice with a business owner's mindset.
As our heart-to-heart draws to a close, Spencer shares a dose of reality and inspiration for his fellow law students. Post-finals and filled with the relief and clarity that comes after intense academic pressure, his message is one of persistence and optimism. He reassures peers that despite the daunting LSAT and the rigors of law school, success is within reach. This episode isn't just a talk—it's an infusion of confidence for anyone standing at the crossroads of law and business, seasoned with actionable advice for law students charting their own course.
____________________________________ Brian Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury lawyer. He is passionate about living a life of his own design and looking for answers to solutions outside of the legal field. This podcast is his effort to share that passion with others.
Discover what it takes to merge the entrepreneurial drive with the intricate world of law as we introduce you to Spencer May, a driven first-year law student from the University of Arizona. Spencer's transition from sales at ADP to the legal field is not just a career change; it's a strategic move influenced by his lifelong exposure to business through his wife's family and his own professional journey. This episode peels back the layers of his ambition to become a business-facing lawyer, offering up stories that reveal the nuances of cultivating a legal practice with a sharp business edge.
Ever wondered how law students snag those coveted positions? Listen closely as Spencer and I unpack the power of forging connections and leveraging career services, unearthing tips for aspiring lawyers to stand out in the job market. As Arizona leads the charge in non-lawyer law firm ownership, we also discuss the seismic shifts this could bring to traditional practice management. Our conversation navigates the less-trodden paths of launching and scaling a law firm, with a spotlight on branding and the psychological hurdles lawyers often encounter when approaching their practice with a business owner's mindset.
As our heart-to-heart draws to a close, Spencer shares a dose of reality and inspiration for his fellow law students. Post-finals and filled with the relief and clarity that comes after intense academic pressure, his message is one of persistence and optimism. He reassures peers that despite the daunting LSAT and the rigors of law school, success is within reach. This episode isn't just a talk—it's an infusion of confidence for anyone standing at the crossroads of law and business, seasoned with actionable advice for law students charting their own course.
____________________________________ Brian Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury lawyer. He is passionate about living a life of his own design and looking for answers to solutions outside of the legal field. This podcast is his effort to share that passion with others.
Sup guys, welcome back to Life Beyond the Briefs. This is the first of my series of ask me anything style episodes with law students that I did over Christmas break. I put out a post on LinkedIn to law students saying is there anybody who would be interested in coming on and talking with me for 30 or 40 minutes about questions that you have that either your career services office isn't answering or that you haven't asked about direction that you should be taking after your first or your second year of law school Just any kind of challenge that I can help you out with? And I have three or four or five people raise their hands to do these interviews and I'm really grateful for that. The first interview is with my friend, spencer May. He's a first year student at the University of Arizona.
Speaker 1:
You're going to find in this episode really smart guy, wise beyond his years, as I've found actually many of these people who are coming out of Utah to have been. We talk a little bit about entrepreneurial culture out of the Salt Lake City area, out of the church of Latter-day Saints. It's just interesting to just observe like that's a religion where a whole bunch of people seem to be pretty good entrepreneurs. Maybe there's something in the water there. Anyway, as you saw, we have changed the name of the show from time freedom for lawyers to life beyond the briefs. There is no intro music, so maybe I'll sing something for you if I don't get something up in the next couple of days.
Speaker 1:
Anyway, on to the show. Here we go. Hey, I'm talking with Spencer May, who's a first year law student at the University of Arizona. And, spencer, before we dive into the questions you had about business law, building a practice and that kind of thing, I just want to give people a sense for who you are, where you came from, because you have a unique background, and that I think you worked for a little bit before going to law school and then your time got constrained because you and your wife had a baby right at the beginning of school. So different perspective than most students come at it from. But tell us a little bit about you, sure?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and thanks again, brian. I appreciate giving me the opportunity to speak with you today and obviously drink from the fountain of a Brian glass. But a quick introduction for myself. So I grew up in Fresno, california. Undergrad took me out to BYU and at that place in Central Utah, I met my wife, who's a diehard East Valley of Arizona girl and you can't get a Gilbert girl out of Gilbert so I had to follow her out here. We ended up down at the University of Arizona in Tucson. We've loved our time so far, and before that I guess I did skip a step.
Speaker 2:
Like you mentioned, I did work. I knew that ultimately, when I graduated law school, I wanted to have a business facing law practice or work as a business facing lawyer. So I went out and while my wife was finishing, I worked at ADP. I just found the biggest corporation that I could work for, knowing that I had exactly 12 months to do it. Adp is the US largest payroll benefits HR. You name it, you name the company, they're payroll.
Speaker 2:
So I spent 12 months doing outbound sales and that was a blast in and of itself. We were knocking on brick and mortar doors and building relationships with mom and pop accounting firms, and I felt like the further I got into it, the better it was preparing me to be a legal business owner, because I felt like these were conversations I was going to have in the future about my legal work instead of my payroll benefits work. So then, oh, and I have to complete now my ride of passage of three years of joy. Rainbows and sun shines down in Tucson, arizona, and we're semester in. I'm two days removed from finals, so I could not be riding any higher.
Speaker 1:
I think it's interesting about your story is that so many people go to law school either because they don't know what to do next or because they heard they should be a lawyer, and I think so many people are trying to find their way from public service to government, to big law, to small trial. But you seem to have a very clearly defined end goal for yourself, which is I want to own a law firm. Not only I want to own a law firm, but that serves the business community. So how did you get there? Do you have a history of entrepreneurship, business owning in your family? Have you watched people? How'd you get to that goal?
Speaker 2:
Sure, and obviously it'll depend on the publication you read. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ a lot of day Saints and I'd say that a lot of times. You could say that we're overrepresented in the entrepreneurial community. There's some pretty heavy hitters. If you think of Mitt Romney and, of course, now that I'm telling this, I'm blanking on any other person of our faith that's ever owned or operated a business. You don't have to forgive me for that. So I think it's a bit of in our blood. Not that there's any religious teaching about it, but there's just something about you see the Mormon guy down the street. The odds are that they're a business owner.
Speaker 2:
My parents are elementary school teachers and I loved having an emphasis in education, but pushing entrepreneurship really wasn't. It just wasn't a thing. My parents will be working well into their 60s so that they can maximize that pension payout dollar amount. I married into a family that's very different and just about everybody of my wife, aunts and uncles do own and operate their own business, and it really broadened my perspective and opened my mind up and I think that I definitely want to ascribe to the things that Owning a business, owning and operating businesses, lend to in your life, rather than my 60 year old dad who sets his alarm for 6 30 every day, rolls in and teaches 10 year olds until 4 pm.
Speaker 2:
It's just not what I envisioned for myself. So that's how we got started down that road, ADP again being having so much access to business owners. All I did was talk to small business owners that owned. We were supposed to work with one to 50, but in reality everybody out of Salt Lake was like somewhere between one and 10 employees, so it was really just like a masterclass and just drinking from the water hose or the fire hose of small business ownership for a 12 month spander in that period before law school.
Speaker 1:
Salt Lake really is like a low key entrepreneur and even tech haven. My buddies Matt McClellan from Hona are out there, so there are a whole bunch of Mormon entrepreneurs in the legal space and I'm happy to connect you with them after we get off of here. How has that goal impacted the way that you've approached activities or clubs in law school? Are you interested in doing a law review right on? Are you interested in trial advocacy classes or moot court or anything like that?
Speaker 2:
Sure, I think anyone else that scratches certain things off their list is probably doing themselves a disservice. So I can't say that I will never. You'll never catch me attending a meeting for something that that probably will not turn into a business opportunity or maybe is. In that kind of business, facing law, there's so many different interest areas and practice areas that people end up in. I just for me, I have gravitated towards the business law society or towards speakers who have industry experience when they come on campus. Fortunately, the University of Arizona does a really good job and has alumni going so far back that it's hard not to find somebody in a certain practice area, so it's been pretty great for me. At the University of Arizona, we've. We really had our pick of the litter. I also am unashamed in reaching out to people in cold email and messaging on LinkedIn, so there's been no shortage of willing alumni.
Speaker 1:
You've always been like that, or did you get better at that at ADP?
Speaker 2:
I think that it was definitely magnified because I was paid and incentivized and got commissions off of being bold and willing to reach out and not be afraid of cold outreach. But I think my parents would also tell you that they could never get this kid to shut up from the day I was born. So now I'm hoping that it translates into dollars.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I just think that's such a skill set and lawyers, for as much as we can stand up in court and talk or be called on in class and talk. I think by and large, we're really shy about doing that kind of cold outreach that you're doing, so that's a real differentiator for you. What has your job search been like for next summer so?
Speaker 2:
at every point throughout my job search which, I would say honestly, I got started before school started, like you mentioned, I've got a wife and a kid, I've got a mortgage.
Speaker 2:
We understand that not being in Phoenix but wanting to work in the greater Phoenix area is not necessarily, it's not an impossibility. It just takes a little more planning and a little more pragmatic searching. At every point so far, over the last four and a half five months, every lawyer said hey, buddy, just put your nose in the books and study, get good grades, and so many more doors will open for you than you can open for yourself. And while I have agreed with that and I've been very diligent with studying for classes, attending, doing the reading, doing all the things we're supposed to do, I'm also not somebody that sits still, so in my free time I have been just avidly searching. At this point, I've got 54 jobs that I'll be applying to in the Phoenix area before the new year starts, and I'd expect that list to grow before that we reach the first of January and beyond. Let me ask you about that.
Speaker 1:
So 54 jobs. So there's a couple of ways to apply for jobs, right? One of them is go on to whatever career services website you have and just click down the list. How did you get to your 54? Because I'm betting that's not what you're doing. And then what are you sending them? That's either the same or different than what they're going to get from every other law school applicant.
Speaker 2:
Sure. So I'd say it's a couple of pronged approach. Like you mentioned the career development or career services office, whatever a law student school is going to call it they are and again, I'm a first year law student just finished one semester. I would say that ours has been really helpful and they have just a depth and a breadth of knowledge of employers and types of jobs that, like, I just could never know. So that was a good starting place for me.
Speaker 2:
I scheduled a meeting with the career services office on week one, told them exactly what I was looking for, had a similar conversation like what we've had up to this point and, fortunately for me, we've been able to develop relationships with other members in that, in that office, and they've sent me stuff and have sent me down some trails searching for things and learning. I guess I would say I probably had the most success working with them, talking about getting into judicial settings, trying to get into chambers. As far as private employers, it's been LinkedIn, indeed and those other job boards, but not applying on LinkedIn, going on doing a little more due diligence and seeing if there are alumni that have any connections there. For me, fortunately, the BYU network is everywhere. University of Arizona network is everywhere in the state and just going from there, so not putting all my eggs in the career services basket and bankin' on us to bail me out in a month or two.
Speaker 1:
That's really like a master class in proactive job search for law students. So good for you. So listen, my invitation was an AMA style ask me whatever you want about business of law, practice of law, and we've gone now 15 minutes and I haven't let you ask me anything, so let's open it up. What do you want to know? Sure.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so I'd like to talk about is generally, you see a lot of people that are able to build something that operates as running the business of law or running a law practice like a business CEO of a law firm in a couple different areas and from my survey it's really concentrated a personal injury, family planning and estate planning and not family planning, I should say family law. Do you think that other practice areas just don't lend themselves to building out larger assets of law firms or do you think that people have just chosen to concentrate in those kind of few areas and gone from there?
Speaker 1:
I think I don't think that it's isolated to family law and personal injury. I think that the difficulty, the mental block that most lawyers have, is that when somebody hires you or sees your personality, that they're actually hiring you. Right? Johnny Cochran has been dead now for 20 years. People are still hiring the Cochran firm and so there is the ability to be the figurehead in front of a and be the CEO of a law firm and have other people doing the work. But it is much more rare in other practice areas. So I think of my buddy, adam Rossin, who's down in South Florida who's running a multi seven figure criminal defense law firm with five lawyers under him, and I don't know exactly how big of a scale that you're talking about, but that does exist in in criminal defense at least.
Speaker 1:
So my buddy, matt Davis, is in Kansas City in the Midwest. He's running about a 30 lawyer, 30 office firm and he doesn't practice hardly any law. He's set it up and he will tell you he wouldn't be embarrassed to hear me tell you like he sets it up as a lifestyle practice. The requirement is you come in as an associate, you build six hours a day and you can go home right as long as you do that, day in, a, day out, we're happy. You're never going to make a ton of money working here, but it's going to be great for people with family or people that have interest outside of the law and don't want to bill 1800, 2000, 2200 hours a year.
Speaker 1:
So I think lawyers are not good at thinking outside of the box.
Speaker 1:
And so for you, for somebody who's coming from a business building perspective, you're doing the right thing and looking around and figuring out who else is doing this well, and I think paying attention to guys like Ryan McKean or Mike Morse in Michigan and the groups that they're running and who do they talk about, that's doing something other than personal injury and wills trust the state and criminal defense, because I think those opportunities are there.
Speaker 1:
And the last thing that we were talking about before we got on is Arizona is one of the few states now that has non-lawyer ownership of law firms, and so there's going to be VC money coming in and swallowing up Little guys. That's what we talk about all the time is, how do you position it now so that it's not the Spencer May law firm? Right, because probably nobody wants to buy the Spencer May law firm. But if it's business development for tech entrepreneurs or whatever you want to call that, that would be the way to position it, so that if and when you want to scale out and sell it, you have that optionality, because it's not your personal identity tied to the firm.
Speaker 2:
Sure, and like you mentioned I guess I'm thinking just along that same thread that if it's the Spencer May law firm, pllc, it has no value beyond my data sale when it changes hands.
Speaker 1:
But again, Johnny Cochran, right. So yes, that's the mental block that most lawyers have. I think it's far easier if you have, if it's Spencer May law firm, PLLC, doing business as whatever you're doing business as right. Having the trade name, which you can have in most but not all states, and then having the Google business profile on the website set up with the trade name and not your name.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, no, that's great, and then maybe I can follow this same train of thought. So you mentioned, for example, you have a friend that owns and operates a practice that's the lifestyle business. That's got about 30 lawyers working with him in Missouri. What are they offering? Do they offer just like a set of templates to incorporate your business and make sure that all of your assets are protected and then go from there? Is it like an individualized? We've got 30 different people that do 30 different things and they'll hold your hand in a certain product. How do they market their offerings?
Speaker 1:
General account for work.
Speaker 1:
Set up your LLC to help you, I think, with a little bit of tax planning stuff, to civil litigation companies get sued all the time to giving advice on employment situations, hiring, firing, management of people, how to not get sued when you do that.
Speaker 1:
So it's full suite business advice for businesses. But he's doing it in many different places with specialists in every individual area. But the unique thing about that setup is that you don't actually have to know everything about business law. Right, you can have your handful of clients in your town and the way that he has it set up, as many satellite offices stretched across the Midwest, so you can be the expert, and or you can have your suite of clients in your town, but when they call you and they're asking you a question about something that you don't know about, now I have somebody who actually is an expert in employment litigation or actually is an expert in sexual harassment, or and who I can be the one who's still holding the hand of the client, but the advice is coming from the expert. So it's almost like having a big firm, expertise and network portfolio but still having your own set of clients. Sure.
Speaker 2:
Now that makes sense. So they've diffused at least like the physical presence of the firm, but also then extended the like access to knowledge. If I'm in Indiana practicing employment law, I still can draw from my peers in other states or other towns. I just am the only person that anyone knows in Pawnee, indiana or wherever that show was based in Parks and Rec.
Speaker 1:
And then the hard thing about being the CEO of the firm is putting yourself into the role where I'm only now going to do the things that I'm really good at and I'm going to have somebody else do everything else.
Speaker 1:
So maybe it's marketing, maybe it's management, maybe it's running the numbers. Whatever it is, I'm going to do those things and I'm going to let my ego step back and in the things that I've had to do to get the firm to a certain size. Many of us who start with one or two or three lawyers and then grow five or 10, you have had a period in your growth where you did everything, and it takes a lot of ego and some guts to say I'm going to pay somebody else to do it better than I am or better than I can, because I know that I'm not the best one to run the market, I know I'm not the best one to create the YouTube ad strategy, for instance, and that just that takes a lot to grow out of that. And what happens is you do is people transition in and out of your firm because you're going to go through different stages of growth, from lawyer to manager, to owner to leader.
Speaker 2:
It's just understanding where you are in the chapter of your personal growth and the chapter of your firm and so do you think that's like hubris on the end of most lawyers because of the price that we paid to ultimately get that JD, to get that piece of paper that we don't want to step out of the way. Because if I think about I think most I just thought is I think about somebody that starts a cleaning company. I'm sure that they can't wait to get out from behind the vacuum, or they can't wait to get out from behind whatever the tool that they're using to clean products are. They can't wait to hire somebody to do that work because I would rather not be cleaning office buildings in the middle of the night, but I love the profit that comes from it.
Speaker 1:
But you're approaching it from a different perspective. Because you're approaching it from the perspective of I want to be a business owner first. Most lawyers, I think, approach it from the perspective of I want to be a great lawyer first and then at some point transition into this. Just doesn't bring me all that much joy anymore, and now I need to grow and lead a law firm. And that's that transition phase where I think so many of us struggle is the people around you watch you go from being the one who's in the case and working it working every single case out to it doesn't look like he's working all that much anymore. Are you just working on different stuff? You're not laboring in the cases. But I think to your example. I'm not certain that anybody that goes and starts a cleaning company because they have a love of cleaning Many people. That's how they ended up at law school and ended up being sworn into the bar.
Speaker 2:
Okay, yeah. So what got you into law practice is not that you wanted to have this wonderful family law firm, it's that you wanted to practice the law you found out along the way. So for you, did you pick your practice area first, did you happen into it and then grow a business out of it? What was the exodus of it?
Speaker 1:
for that, I wish I had a better story. So my dad was a personal injury lawyer. He did medical mile practice cases largely, but some auto, and I couldn't get a job to save my life out of law school, right. I went to school in 2008 and I graduated in 08 and that was the financial crisis. So I had 150 some odd big law rejection letters. I would have been miserable there anyway. I never would have been able to put in 70 or 80 hours a week. I wouldn't have lasted. I ended up at a general practice firm that I also didn't last that very long and then I lucked into contingency fee personal injury work. So I did that for at another firm for 10 years before joining my dad five years ago.
Speaker 1:
And it fits everything that I like, which is, your earnings are not at all tied to the number of hours that you have in a case and you get paid for thinking smarter and better, both about how do we acquire larger cases right? How do I level up the type of cases that I'm working on, but also about where are the big levers in a case that I can pull, that I move it through the system, right. If I work 50 hours on a case, I'm not necessarily going to get paid any more or any less money than if I work three hours on a case, and so that has always appealed to me. I never liked being in jobs where I was making the same amount of money as everybody else just because I'm like a.
Speaker 1:
For a long time I thought it was work smarter, right, and now I think it's both. I think it's work harder on on important stuff. So that's how I got here. I like being on stage, so trial law appeals to me or did for the first 10, 15 years of my career. If I never tried another jury case again, I could live with that. I think I hate doing depositions. Now what I'm looking for and what I'm trying to build is the thing where I have somebody else doing all of that work that I enjoy doing. For a long time I come in and just pull the biggest levers that I can because I think that's what I'm really good at.
Speaker 2:
Sure, you're saying that you're looking, then, to continue to find people that are in a different stage of their career than you. Yeah, I think that's. They're in the building business stage but are in the law work and legal work.
Speaker 1:
I think that's a big. It's a mental hurdle. I'm sorry. I think that's a mental block because when you exit those stages where you just no longer want to do it anymore, it's easy to assume that nobody wants to do it. But if you'd handed me some of these problems seven or 10 years ago, I would have been excited to go and solve that problem for somebody. Now I've solved it so many times or I just don't want to anymore, but there's somebody out there that does. It took many discussions just like this with other entrepreneurs to recognize that block. Now it's like all right, even if I don't want to clean the house, to use your example, there's somebody out there for whom that's a great job, whether it's because it's financial stability, and they don't have to think about.
Speaker 1:
I always think the Walmart greeter. He doesn't go home and worry about his day. It doesn't ever worry that nobody's going to come into Walmart tomorrow. Business law firm owners we think about that all the time. Nobody's ever going to call me again, so you're never really off the clock. I think it's just what stage of the career and what phase of your life are you in? Sure, okay.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, no, that's super actionable advice. And do you feel like in? Obviously we're dealing with kind of a shrunken pot of those who are admitted to a bar in a given state or it's UBE and other recognized in a couple of other states? Are you finding those individuals through like word of mouth? Is it just through some sort of ad service? Is it through like the county bar association? Where do those conversations start?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, now everybody that I've hired is somebody that I've had a case against. They're defense lawyers, right yeah, and frankly, both of them have been out of GEICO. I think in a mature practice that's how you're finding most of your people. We've experimented on Indeed and you get people applying who don't have any idea what you do, and I'm not good at teaching somebody from the ground up how to work. I just don't have the patience for that. So, all right, I've got to hire somebody who's got a little bit more experience and can operate in the cases, rather than I've got to start a baby lawyer at a much lower salary, who's just out of law school or maybe one year into practice. I'd rather pay for somebody else's time that they learn on another company's dime and level up that way?
Speaker 2:
Sure, and so then is most of the interview process taken and done in the actual case that's tried, or through seeing them in action in court, or do you then go through and take them through like a formal interview process? How does? You don't have to disclose too much, but no, no, no.
Speaker 1:
So I know formal interview process at all. Actually, for the two lawyers that I've hired into my auto accident practice, right, one of them, so, my partner, lisa. Like five years before I hired her, I was at my old firm looking around for other lawyers and had this same sense. If there's another lawyer in the community who I wanted to hire and work with, this is who it is, and so it just took time for that opportunity to present itself. And then Melissa, who we hired earlier this year, was that person. For Lisa We've, at least for those two hires, we have not put any ads out at all. We have not done any formal interview process. We've said here's the job, here's why we think it would be fun working here. What do you think? And, right or wrong, it's worked out.
Speaker 2:
And just from a point of naivete is there any sort of different entity structuring that's necessitated by having multiple lawyers come on, or is it just like adding any other W2 employee when you add somebody on?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so there's a million different ways to add people on and compensate them, and even you'll see this At some point law firms call people partners and not really partners. Now there's a partner, non-equity partner, senior associate, junior associate. There's a hundred different ways to structure that, whether it's base plus origination or base plus percentage of revenues or just base. Yeah, so we don't necessarily have a different structure, but there's a million different ways that you can set that up, and that, I think, is the black box that law school never really tells you about is okay, but the partner track is eight to 10 years. What does that even mean? And then, nine years in, they have a secret ballot and either you have equity and you take out a big loan from the bank, or you don't have equity, but now your compensation structure is different, or your of counsel, and now it's entirely different. Nobody ever told me what that meant, and I think that's because there is no unifying definition of any of those terms, gotcha.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that makes total sense. And so do you see, even like smaller firms or friends that you have that are running and building out a business, a greener CEO of a law firm, do you see them mirroring the structure of those larger law firms just because that's the only template that they have to replicate, or are you seeing a lot of legal business owners just shooting from the hip and hoping for the best.
Speaker 1:
They mirror the structure of what their three friends who have already done it did, because there's no playbook. Now there are more and more lawyer, coaching and consulting groups that are saying, okay, this is the way, but that's only the way that they do it. And if it's Atticus or Fireproof or Vista or our group, great Legal Marketing, none of them is right. It's just here's how it's done, sure, or here's how we know how to do it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and so do you think there's space, then, in the small legal law firm world for a little more sophistication, and maybe that's the wrong word, because it's not the practices that you do in your contemporaries are using. They're like outdated or they're wrong. But you mentioned private equities. Come in, and I can't imagine the private equity that you buy in all these different structured firms. There's got to be some standardization. Maybe that's the right word.
Speaker 1:
I think that's a great question and I think that what we will see is you're going to start having consultants who come in and say all right, if you want to sell your firm in three years, here's what you need to change in your corporate structure and here's what you need to change in your bookkeeping in order to make your firm attractive. So I think that's exactly right. If you are a VC and you're vetting 20 or 25 different companies and you're comparing apples to oranges to bananas, like how do you know?
Speaker 1:
So I do think that there's going to become a model for getting acquired, that somebody is going to come and say here's what VCs are actually looking for. That's a cool question. That's an open space for somebody who's already done it in the tech world to come in and teach the lawyers how to do it and what's attractive. I think.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, and obviously I didn't come in with any prepared material as we're talking. It just seems right. It seems like that's what's happened with a lot of other businesses.
Speaker 1:
Go create that, go launch that for lawyers, and then you don't have to worry about finding a job with anybody else.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, there we go. Yeah, you heard it here first. When do pharmaceuticals come out? Did they come out in August or July, or October, october, october, okay, launching October, whatever Arizona's got.
Speaker 1:
you guys have non-lawyer ownership. That's true, yeah. And then figure out who you can be the first law student to employ a lawyer at your law firm before you graduate. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
All right, spencer, this is going to be a free disbarred?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, no, whatever. There's no rule against that. Hey, this has been really fun as we wrap up here. Any other nuggets or advice that you want to share with people who are going through the same thing that you were going through?
Speaker 2:
Yes, yeah. I guess the message I'd have for all law students is that it's going to be okay. Law school that are aspiring, the LSAT's going to be what it's going to be. It's an accomplishment to be where you are and law school is going to happen. It may not happen where you think it will, it may not happen how you think it will, but it'll happen and you're going to be okay. I'm two days removed from finals and you can see a huge smile on my face. It will all be okay.