Medical Money Matters with Jill Arena
Medical Money Matters with Jill Arena
Episode 129: Swipe Right for Your Next Physician: Matchmaking Medicine to Solve Your Recruitment Problems: A Conversation with Kristi Olsen of Beginly Health
In this episode, I am joined by Kristi Olsen, Founder & Chief Strategy Officer at Beginly Health, an innovative new digital platform for physician recruitment. Kristi has a wealth of knowledge in the physician recruitment space, having successfully recruited hundreds of physicians for a regional health system for the first many years of her career. This episode is critical, as recruitment is one of the things we hear repeatedly from administrators, physician owners and CEO’s as a pain point.
Kristi and I discuss the use of technology in recruitment, the demographics and communication styles of the generation of physicians coming out of residency now, and how medical groups can position themselves to be successful with recruiting and retaining high quality physicians. Kristi's company, Beginly Health is here: https://beginlyhealth.com/employers and you can reach Kristi at: kristi@beginlyhealth.com.
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It's such a good question. Yeah, traditional recruitment methods are a little antiquated, I think is the kind way of putting it. Much of that is based in buying contact information of physicians, you know, lists from various sources, and then putting that in the hands of the recruiters to just do all the cold outreach, the inundation of the inbox and the phone and text messages and the whole deal. And so that's kind of the existing way of doing it or using agencies to deploy a similar method on your behalf, posting jobs on job boards, that kind of thing. But it's definitely not, it doesn't favor the physician approach. And, you know, years of working closely with resident physicians and just physician job seekers in general, as well as hiring and leading teams of recruiters, I was like, this is not syncing up. This is not a thoughtful approach for highly trained, highly educated physicians.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to Medical Money Matters, the podcast where you can find experts, answers, and resources to so that you can achieve mastery over the financial and business aspects of your practice. Well, hello, everyone. Welcome. I am joined today by Christy Olson, founder and chief strategy officer at Beginly Health, which is an innovative new digital platform for physician recruitment. Christy has a wealth of knowledge in the physician recruitment space, having successfully recruited hundreds of physicians for a regional health system that she and I share as alumni, same health system we both grew up in. And she did that for the first many years of her career. So I am excited that she's here with us today as recruitment is one of the things I hear repeatedly from administrators, physician owners, and CEOs. So Christy, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted that you're here. Well, let's just jump right in because Beginly really emphasizes a physician-led approach to job matching. And so I'm curious to hear from you how this differs from traditional recruitment methods and then what advantages it offers both physicians and medical groups. That's such a good
SPEAKER_00:question. kind of thing, but it's definitely not, it doesn't favor the physician approach. And years of working closely with resident physicians and just physician job seekers in general, as well as hiring and leading teams of recruiters, I was like, this is not syncing up. This is not a thoughtful approach for highly trained, highly educated physicians. It just felt, didn't feel good for me. So we took a step back and said, hey, what if we thought about this in a similar way as a dating app, right? Tell me about you, physician, what's important to you clinically, but also in your personal life, professionally. And then we will go use our matching algorithm to tell you what positions might be good for you based on the things that you're telling me about you. So really putting the control in the hands of the physician. And then to take it a step further, you know, even after we match and bring these things forward to them, we give them the opportunity to review the jobs in detail and then further make the decision about about whether talking to a recruiter or a hiring professional with that organization is interesting to them. So they get to make the decision about releasing their contact info as well. So it's really, we want them to tell us about themselves and we'll go tell them where these things exist. That lineup is good fits. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So refreshing. Thank you. And it also sounds like it really is designed to honor the time of both parties, actually. You know, the physician that's looking for a new role, they can be really focused about that. And the groups that are recruiting too, it really helps. Not the shotgun approach, right? It's much more targeted and focused. I love it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There's definitely an efficiency play there. You know, it's letting technology, thoughtfully deploying technology to bring some efficiency to what is otherwise a not efficient process, I guess you could say. But yeah, so satisfaction and efficiency all in one. That's the goal.
SPEAKER_01:Wonderful. Wonderful.
SPEAKER_00:Well,
SPEAKER_01:I'd love to take a step back and kind of plumb some of your experience in the industry to think about the role of external recruiters. So for our audience, when should a medical group consider partnering with an external recruiter? And then what criteria should they use to really think about selecting the right partner? Other than 1-800-CALL-CHRISTIE, right?
SPEAKER_00:Because that's a good one. on association websites or whatever, but you do often end up having to tap an agency. And so I will just say that some are better than others. And if I were looking at an agency, I would look for one that had more of a regional accountability. So you're not, if you're based here in Oregon, you're not hiring a team that's based out of New York that doesn't understand the culture of the vibes of the market. And also, these agencies have basically these CRMs full of physician names and they tend to be fairly regionally centric. And so tapping into somebody who has that is important. But I would, before doing anything with external, the power of referrals can't be understated. And so making sure that you've really deployed your existing physicians in your clinic to tap their networks, to make sure they're telling people about these openings, I would just really start there. Potentially even local associations, their career fairs, that kind of thing. I would go there first. And then again, agencies, they vary. And so you're just like, a little secret is you can do a contingency arrangement or you can do a retained arrangement right and so if you're willing to pay in a retained model or you give them a little bit up front you're going to get more they're going to dedicate more time to your job so it's a little scary to outlay cash up front because there still is no guarantee that they're going to find you somebody but at least you can semi guarantee they're going to give you a little bit more attention
SPEAKER_01:Got it.
SPEAKER_00:Got it.
SPEAKER_01:Great advice. I love it. Well, you talked a little bit about the sort of regional specificity, which is great audience and also the vibe. And I think about that, you know, like Pacific Northwest is a very different, you know, professional vibe and work vibe from, say, the East Coast or the South. So that's, I think, really great advice. And that's a wonderful segue for us to think about organizational culture. So, you know, sort of regional culture, but then also organizational cultures. So talk a little bit about how clinics can effectively highlight their culture and values to attract physicians that are really gonna be a good fit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think this is so important and it's often overlooked. I think, you know, so many organizations start at the top of like, we're gonna attract people with big salaries and big sign on bonuses and that kind of thing. And listen, like some of this stuff is table stakes anymore, but really showcasing the culture in the clinic is going a really long way. It's hard to do in a job description. You can try. And we try to build it in our tool opportunities for there to be a better storytelling moment. But, you know, I think when physicians come in for site visits, being able to show, I was just talking to one of our friends, mutual friends, who's been a physician leader for a long time about this and that, so much of it is if you're a younger physician coming in, that they can look around and say, oh, this is a, you with young children or that just sort of like they're on the same page as me. There's definitely sort of a old school mentality as it comes to the way that physicians practice. Older physicians tend to say like, I can't believe anybody wants to work partial schedules and they don't want to work 80 hour weeks. And so there's a little bit of this layer of judgment about the newer generation of physicians. But you know what? It's almost everybody coming out of training wants to practice in a way that allows them to have a life. And so being able to showcase that when people come in for visits and when you're talking to them on the phone is incredibly important. Being accommodating to that reality will go
SPEAKER_01:a really, really long way. That's fantastic. Well, it's great advice too to think about if you're the administrator or the physician in charge of the recruiting is to really think about, you know, what, what is the vibe that your group gives off? And if you have mostly, you know, the old guard that, as you say, or, you know, well, I had to work 80 hours a week through residency. Everybody else should too, you know, that, that isn't going to sell it to the new generation coming out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Nor is it going to lead to, you know, long-term retaining of them either, which I'm sure we'll get to at some point, but it's, I think there's a tendency because recruitment is really hard right now to just sort of do whatever you can to get somebody in the door. And ultimately that's not going to drive that satisfaction on either side. So really emphasizing the culture of practice and And often, you know, what's really interesting, too, is I think sometimes clinics don't even really know or groups don't even really know what their culture is. Like, what is it about the culture of our group that we want to emphasize? And so doing a little bit of that before you start hiring and what kind of person really do we want to join this group can go a long way because I think that gets sort of passed over. It's just let's just go find somebody and then you can, you know, that can lead to mismatch, too.
SPEAKER_01:That is also a great insight. When our group does strategic planning, we actually spend time on mission, vision, values. And we'll go back to the group and say, if you already have them, let's go back and check out, do they still resonate for you? And do we ratify these and move on? Or do we want to make some changes? And the very next thing we talk about is their culture. And we say, what is your culture? And there's always a little bit of quiet after we ask that question. People sit in their chair frequently.
SPEAKER_00:And would everybody say the same thing? Yeah. Yeah, well, we
SPEAKER_01:put it up on a flip chart. So it's like, let's at least try to get, you know, some consistency in this room if we have all the leaders. For sure. But frequently, and I'm sure you see this in practices too, culture sort of happens by happenstance. It's sort of accidental. And frequently it's driven by if there are one or two, you know, big personalities in the group, that tends to drive the culture too. And maybe not exactly where you want it to go. So it's lovely to get some clarity on what do you want the culture to be?
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think
SPEAKER_00:it's also one other piece is that what's unique about, I think, culture is that it's not like organizationally organized. there's not always a culture. I mean, there can be sort of the mission, you know, values, et cetera. But I mean, I remember recruiting for a large health system and having 40, 45 different primary care clinics, each of which had their own culture. And so being really thoughtful about that too, that, you know, interviewing at different places can really mean something very different to people because they're going to get a completely different vibe. So, you know, just being aware of that, I think is super important.
SPEAKER_01:And that's a great point. In the larger groups as well, there's always sort of that overarching culture and the sort of what we say our mission and vision and values are. And each location really does have its own, you know, those are the people you hang out with minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day. And so that, yeah, that really can have very different flavors from one location to the next. So, yeah. Well, I would love to think about, you know, sort of the end of the recruitment process and kind of think about sealing the deal. So in your experience, what are the key factors that influence a physician's decision Yeah, it's so
SPEAKER_00:interesting talking about this because I think when I first started my, you know, physician recruitment journey, it was all about comp. it really did feel like, okay, whoever can be the most competitive with, you know, the package they're putting forward. And it's just not that anymore. I will, you know, with the large caveat that there's some specialty nuance to this, that sometimes that really is a driving force. But, you know, if we're thinking about maybe just, you know, especially primary care, I'll tell you, and I think I probably told you the story that I was just working with a senior resident and she opted for taking a role with an FQHC because the things that were most important to her were patient populations that she was serving, ability to speak Spanish in the clinic, and having some teaching opportunities. And as I was coaching her through this process, I said, you know, you're leaving about$100,000 on the table. And she said, yeah, I know. And she's intentionally making that choice. And so sealing the deal will look different for everybody. And when I'm talking to different practices, I emphasize the fact that Put your best foot forward as far as compensation is concerned. Do what you can. Be competitive if you can be. And then emphasize the other things in clinic, the clinical support tools. Do you have AI scribing? Do you have inbox management tools? What's your nurse to physician ratio? How much time are physicians spending after they see patients in the EMR and documenting stuff? So really painting a picture of the lifestyle that they can have in the clinic is going to go a really long way. And so you can really make Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I love it. Well, you and I talked about this a little bit earlier, and I wonder if you could comment a little bit on the, although it's not all compensation, when groups make an offer to a physician, how they can package that in a way that it's easily understandable, especially if it includes work RVUs or something like that. I both know a lot of physicians don't really understand. So what would you say to groups that want to package something that's easily understandable?
SPEAKER_00:I would take the time to walk people through it. I think a lot of people just make the assumption that physicians, and especially doctors, folks coming out of training, that they understand it at all. And they really don't. Often, the first time they see an offer will be the first time they see the term work RVU. And so making them feel like they actually understand what their role is as it pertains to the comp that they're going to see is really important. I think being able to spell out other opportunities for them to earn additional income if that's important to them. But yeah, I mean, just... not assuming that they know what you're talking about will go a long way and spending the time to make them feel like, okay, I get this. I understand how I can play a role in this particular practice and how I influence my own compensation. And then one other thing, and this is funny because I know it to be true, but one of our resident advisors was talking to us about when he took his job as a cardiologist and he was saying that his ultimate decision came down to the fact that he was made to feel very special And I get it. It's like this red carpet thing. Some groups are really good in some secrets for hiring people. It's like assign a physician leader to call these folks, tell them how much they enjoyed the interview. This red carpet thing really goes a long way. Don't make them feel like they're dime a dozen or like that, you know, we have tons of people to consider that doesn't really work, especially if you don't. But really, we can see you in this clinic and making them feel special thing. Obviously, they haven't had a lot of that throughout the course of their training. And so bringing that forward and being really responsive and thoughtful will go a
SPEAKER_01:literally, and this is, again, a little old school, put together a packet that they could give to the candidate that was something they could take with them that had information about the clinic, mission, vision, values, all of that, a little bit of who we are, and then some local information if the candidate was coming from out of town. So those are things I think sometimes We forget as we're busy administrators running around trying to coordinate a visit for a candidate. And we forget to do the gift wrap part of it. When you give the gift, the packaging has to be a part of it. I always like to say to our consulting team, it's a little bit of theater, but it's important.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And you kind of think that it wouldn't be that important. And, but it's been, it's been definitely verbalized a couple of times in the last year and I, so anyway, it's worth mentioning, but, and even just, you know, if you're a smaller group, I think that stuff really does go an extra long way because to know that the larger entities are doing stuff like that, you know, goodie bags at hotel rooms and, you know, they have obviously more resources, but anyway, so yeah, try to, try to compete in the soft stuff too.
SPEAKER_01:It's not terribly expensive to make a gift basket land in a hotel room. Yeah, that's great. That is great advice. Well, and that sort of leads into thinking about retention, you know, and once you get these candidates here, you do all this work, you go to all the expense. So beyond recruitment, what strategies do you recommend to your clients to ensure long-term retention of physicians?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it's interesting in my last role, we didn't have a big hand in the retention, but My purview comes from the people that I did talk to and why they were looking for jobs, right? And why they left. And I think we're hearing a lot, and I've referenced this already, but this newer generation of physician is, again, their entire identity is not being a doc. It's not, many of them will, their family first or their hobby first or whatever it might be. And so recognizing that, first of all, building room in in the way that you run the practice to accommodate that. Again, I see so many groups throw money like oh at the end of two years you'll get this retention bonus and I just don't that's just not it that's just I think it's a part of it if you're behind in comp and it's kind of a leveling thing but it's really the ability to make a physician in your group feel like they have a say that they're heard and you know again the camaraderie if that's what they're looking for it's so much more about the other stuff with this newer group than it is about throwing money on a problem so that feels a little bit vague but I mean I think every group knows what they what they should be leveraging within their clinic. And it goes back to also, I think you and I have talked about this before, is like hiring the right people in the beginning will also yield better retention. And because it is so hard to recruit, it's easy to just hire. And I think that's okay if you can also understand that that may lead to more turnover later, but really focusing on the things that will make a really good physician in your group and then looking for that person should sort of in and of itself support the retention.
SPEAKER_01:Well, to your point, hiring the right person, it loves about our advances in technology. And I think your your platform at Beginly is a great example of taking something, taking some technology like dating site, dating websites and matching algorithms that we know about and applying that in the business setting and in the health care setting. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on how technology enhances the recruitment process and then, you know, what organizations should be looking for in terms of recruitment technology. I
SPEAKER_00:mean, more and more things are coming out, you know, TBD on whether they last, you know, I mean, technology is, it's funny because while technology, the space really needs new technology, it's also an audience that's a little bit resistant to technology. Oh,
SPEAKER_01:healthcare is eons behind with all of our technology. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There's always this, like, you have to be careful what you say. Yeah. I always say like how many people in their 20s have ever made a dinner reservation via phone call? There's this sort of reluctance to get on the phone to learn about things. They would much rather learn about things, do their own research, and then talk to somebody when they have to. So that was kind of the intention of Beginling is like create a space where organizations can do that storytelling and take a moment to– be okay with that reality of the audience that they're attracting and be transparent. This is something that I think is really missing in this industry right now is the pendulum sort of swung from one end to the end of being as vague as possible so that you're sort of like dangling this carrot, but nobody wants that. I wouldn't even want that, right? I'm a physician. I loosely know what I'm looking for. Tell me the details and then allow me to make a decision, a thoughtful decision based on the details of your role. And so anyway, I think when you're looking at technologies, it's important to think about the customer or the end user. And otherwise the technology is just a technology solving, trying to solve something that, you know, or adding to an already troublesome. I mean, there's a lot of stuff in the recruitment space right now that's trying to pinpoint It's all about pipeline as trying to pinpoint the best doctor for your job based on a series of things. But it's not addressing the engagement part. Because if you really think about what's happening in this industry, because so many people with this shortage, so many people are after the same small pipeline of people. Inboxes are flooded. Phones are flooded. And as such, everybody, these physicians are just deleting everything. And so teeing up a solution that just gives you a more pinpointed, names doesn't actually get you on the other side of the problem, which is like getting people to see you or pay attention to you. And so I think that's just sort of the great reckoning in the space right now is whoever can get on the other side of the engagement dilemma is really where we're at. Got it. Got it. Well,
SPEAKER_01:yeah. And having the technology that does the matching, again, seems to be really respectful of their time and not flooding their inbox. So,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. whether it's search engine optimization or whatever it may be, it's expensive to be seen anymore. And it's also expensive to be on a lot of the existing tools. And so as a small group, you're sort of like, what am I supposed to do to make myself show up? You can Google family medicine in any given area and you're going to see the biggest players, the ones who are spending the most money to show up. And while that's Fine if you understand that. That's also quite limiting if you're a smaller group because the reality is many of these physician job seekers are actually looking for the sort of opportunity that an independent group has to offer, but they would never know that those groups are hiring. And so, yeah, bringing some equity to the process is important to us. A little bit of leveling the playing field. And it's a leveling of the playing field because if you can really think about like, this is actually about the physician and what they want, not about the employer and how much money they're spending. It matters to see all the things, right? It's important for the ecosystem of healthcare. So yeah,
SPEAKER_01:I love the egalitarianism Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, let's shift gears a little bit and talk about what everybody's talking about, which is physician burnout and thinking about, you know, that is a significant concern for the market. And it's this is probably a little bit of a given, but think a little bit about how the recruitment process can be brought to bear. on that burnout. And as you and I said, we were talking earlier, you know, burnout is the reason then people call you, right? It's like, okay, I've got physicians leaving or a lot of early retirements, which we're still seeing in the market, you know, all that's happening. So how do you think about burnout in the physician world?
SPEAKER_00:I just, I think about burnout a lot because, I mean, I think everybody's thinking about burnout a lot in the physician space, but Just watching sort of this trend of physicians backing FTE down, you know, there aren't a lot of physicians, I don't think, working full schedules right now. And, you know, when you talk to them, many of them say, it's not because I don't like to work hard. It's because I don't, especially, you know, I think about the primary care space versus sort of like space where every day you're walking to the same clinic and you've got, I don't know, 18 to 25, 30 patients on your schedule.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:every single day. I mean, I think anybody, if that's what you did every day, you'd start getting burned out and the heaviness of the work. I mean, lay that on top. And so I just think, I think a lot about the physician workforce shifting away from wanting to do that full-time, same thing every day, all day, and looking to diversify the way that they flex their skill sets. And I think it's really important. So, you know, We don't want people leaving medicine altogether. So if you can accommodate allowing people to have a mix of responsibility, I think that's going to go a long way. But ultimately, too, so much of burnout, I think, starts at the very beginning in the recruitment process. And I've said this a couple of times, but everyone is quite desperate to hire and will make... And I hate to say this, but there's lots of times people will say, we just need a pulse. You know what I mean? And it's like, okay, I get it. And you can do that. You can recruit in that way, but don't anticipate people sticking around for very long. So I feel like a lot of burnout can be addressed by... A lot of the things we've already talked about in this is that... Identifying what's important to your group, like what a good fit actually looks like, and really being thoughtful about hiring that kind of person. And then thinking about organizationally how much flexibility you have to meet people where they are can really kind of aid in that burnout.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That's really insightful. I mean, you know, the statistics are pretty staggering. And it seems like most everyone who worked through the pandemic and is still practicing, I agree with you, they've turned down the volume a little bit. They're still in it. And so many early retirements, you know, and I just on the one hand, I think. hats off to you and good for you for taking care of your own health. And I worry about our industry still that we're in this recovery mode and it doesn't feel like we're coming out of that all that fast.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh, I agree. Yep. And we're not, we're not training more people than we used to. And so figuring out how to support the, you know, the folks that are coming out is really important, but I, you know, we look at the day on our tool too. And it's like, one of the questions we ask is, how much they want to work. I'm going to send some if they're coming out gung-ho. And the majority of the people who are answering that question do not select full-time.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. Okay. Well, that's excellent for our audience to know then, you know, if you're, if you're searching for someone who wants to work full time, get, get really clear about what that means in your group, because every group has a slightly different definition of full time. And then understand that you might be passing up on some really good candidates that might only want, you know, 0.8 or 0.75 or something like that.
SPEAKER_00:Or figure out how to make full time be a four day work week or something like that. That would
SPEAKER_01:also, a lot of people are doing that. 32 hours a week you know patient care time and then you're still responsible to get all your charting done you know and so maybe that happens on your you know your quote day off or your day not in the office but that's fantastic well how about thinking a little bit back to our kind of our conversations about culture and how organizations can really set themselves up for success in recruiting one of the other topics we hear about a lot we could talk about a lot is transparency and so I'm curious to hear from you about how transparency and job roles and expectations and organizational challenges. Not that we want to hang out all the dirty laundry, but to talk about that and how that impacts the recruitment process and then subsequently candidate satisfaction. Yeah. I mean,
SPEAKER_00:we said this a little bit too about what people want to read. They want to see all the things. I often say to the folks that are building out their jobs and our tool that whatever Yeah. But yeah, I don't, you know, there's sort of like, there's, there's also this, it's really funny, this sort of general idea that like, we're not going to put salary, you know, we're not going to, and, and now there's some pay transparency laws coming into effect, but like number one, the advice is put your salary in there. Again, we'll help you. We, but otherwise like help you understand whether you're competitive in a salary perspective. And if you're not make up for it in other ways. And if you are great, but either way, We see so much less engagement with the jobs in our platform that do not list salary. People just want to know. And so if you're hiring, be... Be transparent with the way
SPEAKER_01:you
SPEAKER_00:pay people.
SPEAKER_01:That is fantastic advice. Yeah, because a lot of times people can be a little shy about that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I get it, right? It's like, ooh, is everyone going to see this? Are we going to lose our competitive advantage? I don't really think that that doesn't really make any sense these days. Certainly job seekers are not interested in that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, it's good. Again, I think we kind of keep coming back to this theme of respect the candidate's time. 100%. Yep. If you're not going to give them information that they want at the beginning of their search, they're not going to click on your job description. You know, I'm not going to click on your link.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. There's lots of other opportunities out there. So you might as well put it all out there. Yeah, definitely a
SPEAKER_01:candidate's market right now. That's for sure. Yeah, 100%. This has been so much fun, Christy. I know you and I can talk all day. We'll wrap up with one final question. Sure. Because this is, you know, this is a podcast about medical money matters So I always like to bring it back to some metrics. And I like to say, how do we measure and know that we've gotten where we need to go? So I'd love to hear your thoughts on key performance indicators and how your clients or how you help your clients measure success with recruitment.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, KPIs in the recruitment space are funny. They're in some places completely non-existent and in some places, I mean, there's a lot of variability to it. The long and short of it is I think a number that people should understand, especially for some groups that are hiring and don't all the time is this time to fill number. So depending on obviously the size of the market you're recruiting to and what the requirements are for the position, but in general, it's going to take you a year to hire a physician. So if you want a KPI, I mean, you could benchmark recruitment. If you hired in less time than a year, you're doing great. And then, I mean, as far as internal goes, hold your teams accountable and your clinical staff accountable to tapping their networks. Again, the power of the referral in this space is a lot. And if you're not, if people aren't seeing this in a Google search, they got to hear about it from somebody. And so if you have a really happy group of people, get them talking about you in their circles. So anyway, and the effectiveness of recruitment strategies, so highly variable, but yeah, I think it has to come down to how long it takes you to hire somebody. That's something you should really be looking at, but make sure that you're planning well in advance these days. Yep. So I'll start that for you. Wonderful. Well,
SPEAKER_01:thank you so much for such a comprehensive conversation about recruiting. Our audience is going to have a lot to get out of this episode. Christy, we'll make sure that we get your website into the show notes and also your contact information so everybody listening can find you. And thank you so much again for being
SPEAKER_00:with us. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. So nice. Thanks.
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