Enhancing Emotional Resilience with Dr. Jane Foster

Welcome to an insightful episode of "Wild + (Finally F**king) Free": Enhancing Emotional Resilience with Dr Jane Foster, Dr. Jane Foster, is a leading researcher and educator with a PhD in health and education. Jane is also trained in Traditional Chinese Medicine, Shiatsu, and Yoga. Combining these skills with neuroscience and positive psychology, Jane equips people with proactive strategies to help manage their daily stresses, successfully changing perspective and creating new neural pathways.

Formerly a teacher specializing in outdoor education, Dr. Foster shares her transition into advocating for emotional resilience, emphasizing the importance of teaching life skills alongside academics. She challenges the conventional focus on academic achievement, advocating for tools to navigate internal struggles effectively.

The conversation explores reframing judgment and blame as resilience-building tools and introduces concepts like "TEPs" (Trigger Extra Proportions) and "PETs" (Personal Emotional Tools) to manage emotional triggers.

Dr. Foster's personal journey, including a profound experience with transient global amnesia, underscores the importance of valuing physical well-being and embracing emotional challenges with resilience. The episode concludes with a message of self-care, resilience, and navigating life's challenges while prioritizing emotional well-being and personal growth.

Find out more about Dr. Jane and her work at www.emotionalresiliencetraining.com.au, including her book and audio course mentioned in this episode

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Transcript

Kylie Patchett  00:03 
Hello, everybody, welcome to the podcast, we have another amazing guest today. I've got Jane Foster in the studio with me. Hello, Jane, how are you?

Jane Foster 00:11
I'm very well, thank you. How are you?

Kylie Patchett  00:13

I'm really well. And this is a brilliant way to kick off on Monday because I was just reading back through your questions that you've popped in, which is way back in, I don't know, probably December last year. And I was like, Oh, this lady's gonna be so cool to talk to. So for people that don't already know of you and your work in the world, would you like to introduce yourself? Please?

Jane Foster  00:32

I'd love to thank you. Well, I'm Dr. Jane Foster, which is and I'll explain why that came about. Because sometimes you have to play the game. I started off as a teacher, and just love teaching. That's an absolute passionate passion of mine. And I started off in outdoor education. So teaching skiing, rock climbing, kayaking, and then spent six years overseas doing that. And I think it was, there was a moment when I had, we were taking boys out into the wilderness for a few weeks. And they, they're all multi-offenders. So they and I had one on my rope. And he climbed halfway out the the rock face, and then just froze. And he was someone who, you know, he was one of the very, very strong multi offenders. And so I talked to him, and I was talking to him through it, and he was crying and shaking. And yet outside, he was a real bully, you know. And I think about an hour and a half later, he gradually came up the rock and, and made it. And when he got up the top, he was a totally different person. And it was then it really came to me that it was the first time he'd succeeded from engineer. Everything else, he'd smashed a car or stolen something, or done something. And I thought, wow, that's what I want to do for the rest of my life, give people the tools to give people the tools to be able to handle things from within. So they don't need anyone else. And and then I went into the classroom. And yeah, dealing with the education system was interesting, because it's my main focus. My main focus was to align the kids with themselves, you know, it wasn't to get top of the class or, or whatever. But the interesting thing is, once you align them and you start making them feel a success, then everything else lifts up anyway. Yeah. But we go about that bad at the wrong way. We don't teach living skills. First. We just go straight into the academics with this great pyramid of all leading up to university

Kylie Patchett  03:15

summit that everyone should climb. And I'm like, I'm not the right subnet for most of us. And

03:22

it isn't, and it shouldn't be. And this is where, like, I can remember. I used to do a thing where we'd have chickens with the year eights. And they they'd come about three days prior to hatching. Yeah. And it was it was to teach them life skills. And they all you know, put their initials on an egg. Now some eggs didn't have it. Yeah. So the kids had to deal with that. They had to look after them for two weeks. So in the first week, they were really cute. And they had them in their pockets, and they'd go to other classes. You can imagine how popular

Kylie Patchett  04:06

Oh, there's Jane and the chicken. Exactly.

04:09

That's exactly. And they had them in their pockets. And it was really interested in bed hair by the second week because they sort of had little creatures in the classroom. I set up things if they wanted to work, they could put them in there. And the first week, they all had them and they were cute and everything else. The second week, they started all going into the crashes because they were becoming teenagers. Yes. It wears off, doesn't it? Absolutely. But also I had a plan that every night someone had to take home a whole group of them. Yeah. And and I had kids I don't want my chicken going home with her or feeder. I don't want him in this. I don't want that one in my crate and chicken Chronicles lately, but it was so good. I said, Well, how do you think your parents think, why do you think they're saying I actually don't want you to go home with that person? I don't want and they're going wrong. And and there's always a deformed one. And at first the kid who gets it wants to swap it. Yeah. And then after two weeks that one has the most personality, and everyone adores that little one. So they learn about that. And then there was one where a boy stepped back and actually stood on his. I know it was it, and it did die. And he sort of went over to his mates, you know, sort of, and the girls are saying, Oh, he's laughing. How could he possibly like? And I said, Just wait a minute. Yeah. What was he like when it was alive? Yeah, he took it everywhere and walked on his chest, and they went, so why do you think he was doing that? And he's they said, to save face with the boys. Yeah. And I said, Exactly. Now learn, then what you see on the outside isn't necessarily what's going on the inside. So just in that two weeks, it was funny. I was overseas in Germany, and I was at the airport, and a guy came up to me, and he's one of my old students. And he said, The chickens were the best thing you ever did. That was my form of contraception. Because they'd take it home, and the group, you know, the the chickens home, and they'd come back the next morning,

Kylie Patchett  06:38

because I didn't sleep. Welcome to parenthood kids.

06:41

And that's what he said. He said, God, you taught me a lot there. Yeah, so that's bad. So I was teaching for a while. And then I was just too constraining. So the school was great. You know, I'm not bagging the school. But the whole system just wasn't my system. Yeah.

Kylie Patchett  06:59

Systems broken. Yeah, yeah.

07:01

So, so I left that and started my own thing where I wanted to, to build emotional resilience. And I wanted to build it from 18 months old, right through to 100 years old to get, because I think one of the profound things that I saw when I was teaching was the students, staff and teachers who looked fine on the outside, but they weren't on the inside. And I wanted to dig down on that. And I thought, why are we pretending to be happy? Because at the moment, everything is happiness. And when I asked students and, and adults, you know, any age, hand up those who've ever pretended to be happy 100% And I'm thinking, why is that and it's all a stigma, and you're failing if you're, I mean, when did sad, become an illness rather than emotion to be experienced? You know, it's, it's so it's the long winded talk about I

Kylie Patchett  08:11

love I love giving me this is my jam, Jane people's stories. So don't don't apologize. I want to share two things with you about your story because you're reminding me so my husband's school did the chicken thing. And he actually brought his chickens home. So he brought four chickens home, three of them died relatively, you know, like, in normal years of chicken life. And then there was this standout one grandma, and grandma, the chicken was still around when I first met him, which we weren't 21 and 22. So, you know, we're talking about grade eight to 21 and 22. So grandma was still kicking. She used to come up the back steps of his house at Holland Park in Brisbane, like club.

08:54

Did I teach him? No, maybe

Kylie Patchett  08:58

there's a possibility. And yeah, she used to turn up every morning for her WeetBix that her my my father in law Ian used to give her and she did come to a very sad and and unfortunately, one of our dogs may have had grandma for dinner. Which also brings me to a funny story about being in a restaurant and telling that story to someone and when you say my dog ate grandma, people's eyebrows tend to raise so that was my first little thing. But when you say outdoor education my I've got a My older daughter also has ADHD and she really struggled in the school system wasn't meant to be at a desk wasn't meant to be sitting down. Very, very hands on and her a huge turning point in her schooling where she went to a school where they went away on outdoor education for four weeks. And I tell you what, in that makes me emotional. In that four weeks she learned that She had so much internal, like groundedness and strength that not everybody was able to access in those four weeks. And also, rather than saying, You need to fit into this system, and the only way to be valuable in the system is to be bright and able to learn academically, she actually found all of these other skills that she was able to, you know, she's a great problem solver. And she's really good, like a dad, one building things. And you know, they had to build a shelter. And they're, you know, a group of girls, most of them not that necessarily great with her hands. And he is she is, you know, fetching the roof and whatever, and made the best structure ever. And it just it, it so taught her that she had so much more other valuable assets. And so I just want to honor the fact that outdoor education teachers are worth their weight in gold. Because yeah, as you say, finding from within. And I think coming back to what you're saying about happiness is not the same thing. We're given a story that says the way to be successful is to be good at school, go to university and get a good job. And I'm using air quotes all over myself. Absolutely. And but the same story is and, and our job is to be happy.

11:22

And a parent's job is to have a happy family. Oh, yeah.

Kylie Patchett  11:25

Oh, yeah. Let's talk about that ridiculous load of bullshit.

11:31

It's an I can remember having we were camping, and there was my youngest son who's dyslexic had his friend with him who was the top a student. And I heard him say, yeah, that new kid, he's even dumber than you are Sam. Ah, stop. And I went, Hmm. So how do you define intelligence? And he said, well, getting A's yeah, getting good. And I said, you know, what? The continuum of intelligence is that long? And do you know where school intelligence fits in? It's behind me, it's that big. And it was a fantastic conversation to have with both of them. They were. But that's, that's, as we said, that's the

Kylie Patchett  12:21

system. Yeah. And unfortunately, for our kids, they hear that a lot. And then they internalize that they're not as good as other people. And that plays out. And that makes me so sad. I look back at some of the Yeah, the the year eight, year nine transition, particularly. And I just think, ah, if I hadn't had my time again, I'm not going to beat myself up for it, because I didn't know what I knew, and was able to at the time, but yeah, fast forward a few years, and I'm just like, ah, far out. I would have been Yeah, I would have liked the whole thing.

12:55

You know, we constantly growing, you know, it's, it's an I can remember when I was at school. I think that's when I because I saw some girls being really nasty to other girls. Yeah. And, and so I created something that helped me cope. And you know, because I couldn't understand why, why people like that. And I've, I've now changed it into a metaphor. So emotions are now rough and smooth. They're not good and bad, which totally takes away the judgment, your judgment, exactly. If you're, because at the moment, you're not supposed to be on the bad roads, you're supposed to be on the good roads. And the thing is, though, that sorry, that I've gotten in there. And so what we're doing is with our children, our partners, even ourselves, we're lifting ourselves off the rough roads and putting them on the smooth. But when you think about it, where do you increase your driving skills or so that's making nice, yeah, you increase it on rough road. And so it means that because we're lifting everyone off, unless there was so when they do get on a rough road, and there's no one there to lift them off, they're crashing, and we find that down in prep, right through to adulthood, you know, through to grandparents, you know, everyone because I think it started with my generation. I'm a baby boomer, and we

14:31

define the baby boomers for everything, Jane.

14:36

But what we did is some we suddenly gave everyone who ran in the race and ribbon. Yeah, and you know, it's it. And I very strongly feel that we're all good at different things. Yes. So if you run a win a race, you can get a blue ribbon, you know, a first ribbon. If you're the best in English, you can get an English prize You know, we all need to be able to celebrate other people's strengths and find our own. And yes, I was at a football club presenting, and they no longer had best and fairest. And I said, Why? Because there's a kid there. Who fails at school football field is a, exactly, let's celebrate that. And so everyone's all this, you know, we've got

Kylie Patchett  15:30

looted, we've diluted. And I also think that the other thing where the system is broken, is trying to fit everybody into the same box and then expecting everyone to be happy in that box, or to be able to be successful what it however you want to define those things. And I'm like, You can't put like I I always call myself neuro sparkly, not neurodivergent. And I totally, yeah, I totally believe that's actually a trauma response. But anyway, argue about that till the cows come home. But, you know, my brain is not going to be good at doing something like an accountants brain is good at. But my my stepfather, bless him, he's got dementia, and it's not well, at the moment. He he has a brain where figures make him happy. Like, that's his Shine. Yeah. And I've just like, if we keep on handing out all of the ribbons, we're diluting. Absolutely diluting celebrating what we should be celebrating. But I guess the problem then becomes if we are, you know, our kids spend a lot of time in the school environment, if the school environment doesn't provide opportunities for anything but academic shining, then we've got a problem.

16:47

In that those things, isn't it? Exactly. And that's why I wanted to create something that because, you know, talking about menopause, it often, you can't influence it, you know, you can't control it. So if things are out of your control, the one thing you can do is learn how to respond to it. Yeah, you know, and that's, and that is what's so exciting. And I wanted to teach 18 month old kids, right through the ability to do that, because the way you respond gives you your whole perspective on your life. And like, I'm still having hot flushes, you know, I have them at night, but it's how I respond to that. You know, it's not. And it's talking about its people understanding that the hot flush doesn't mean you're a failure. I've been doing this and this and this, and I thought menopause

Kylie Patchett  17:40

and judging your body for the signals that's giving to you. It's like, oh, this is not right, I should be able to do this without, and I know

17:48

exactly. If it's not moving, then change how you're responding to it. So you are not failing, if you do everything and then have another hot flush, or you're, you know this I haven't had sugar for a week. Why is this happening? You know, why is this a bit so

Kylie Patchett  18:03

good? Yeah. Judgment again.

18:07

It's, it's all judgment. And yeah, I ran into someone the other day, and they said, they commented on my appearance. And I thought, Well, I haven't seen them for years, they didn't comment on why you've written a book, or you've done this, or you've done, appearance came first. So I thought, isn't it interesting, you know, with with so tailored for that, and so that's why I changed emotions to rough and smooth after that. So I and bad, your kid can come home, or you can come home and say, I'm on a rough road at the moment, and no one will judge you because you're building your resilience. Yeah. But the one thing you need to be in control, because if you're out of control on either road, because you can be out of control on a smooth road. Yeah. 100%. And it's so we may as well go because I my whole metaphor is based on driving. So you have the steering wheel, and only you have the steering wheel. And yet what we're doing is reaching over and grabbing our children's steering wheel partners or somewhere else saying, I think you'd be better off over here. And yet, their map is totally different to yours completely. Because probably different to ours. And it will exactly and that's another thing with this metaphor, your car is unique. Yes. And all you can do is influence the way it runs. Yeah. And so high quality petrol good services. Now, some people have been on rough roads most of their life. Yeah. And that's not bad. Challenging, yes. But not bad. They may need more servicing more requests, you know, frequently and there's nothing wrong with it. Yeah, you know, that's I often you know, this glass half full or glass half empty? You know, you've got to be someone who's glass half full. Why? The glass half empty people, a lot of them are the ones who have made innovations in this world. 100%. And then, so it's my whole thing is to take away judgment. And so I don't care what road you're on. Yeah. You know, if you're someone who you've wired yourself to be anxious, or you're wired, anxious, I don't say, hey, no, you're you're broken. We need to fix it. I can remember. Remember, a teacher saying about my youngest son? Oh, we need to fix this, this. And I said, Hang on. He's not broken. He's

Kylie Patchett  20:43

not a project for Christ's sake. He's a human being there.

20:47

Which is, which was really interesting. And yeah, so it's so important to know that you can go on either road. And and that if you are someone who is so someone who is anxious, getting back to that, it's about teaching them how to be in control on that road. And I use use this because out of control is like that. On either road. This is the amygdala, yes. And your amygdala is your reactive brain. And if someone's out of control, how many times do we try and talk to them, because this is their prefrontal cortex, which is their thinking creative brain. And when they're like this, it's nowhere to be seen. So it's teaching everyone to get back in control. And then you can talk about it, it doesn't mean you go off a rough road, you can stay on that rough road, if you're in control while you're on doing your Advanced Driving Course. Yes, you know, that is really good. You're

Kylie Patchett  21:48

still at the wheel, you haven't exited the vehicle hoping that or you know, got in the backseat and hope that someone else is going to do it for you.

21:55

That's right, wait for the tow truck or whatever. I have this wheel, this is the way I am. So I need to be able to regain control. I have families whose teenagers come home, and they just do that and go into their bedroom.

Kylie Patchett  22:12

And I want to sorry, just so that we sorry to interrupt you. But I just want to explain if you're listening to the podcasts without the visuals, I just want to know that's okay. It's all good. This will be on YouTube as well. So if you're interested in the in the actions, but just um, let's explain to when you were saying before, so the I've put my path out

22:31

of control, like a stop sign with your hands. Yeah. And you bring your thumb over and bend it. So it's in the middle of the pilot. Yeah, gotcha. Yeah, yep. And then when you're out of control, in control, you bring your fingers down over your thumb. And so your fingernails basically represent your prefrontal cortex, because it's in the front of your brain.

Kylie Patchett  22:54

And the prefrontal cortex allows us to can you just explain that? Yes,

22:58

you can create whereas the amygdala react,

Kylie Patchett  23:01

and it's all very emotional. So and the fight

23:04

flight Yeah, fight flight freeze.

Kylie Patchett  23:07

Is it still true? It's a long time since I did any neurobiology, so excuse this beginner's question. But do we still think that when the emotional irrational part of our brain is turned on that we can't think like, are we still saying that but it's kind of one or the other that's driving the bus or not necessarily.

23:27

It restricts thinking restricts? Yeah, we're down to

Kylie Patchett  23:31

risk. I wonder, because it used to be very black and white. And I'm like, That was back in the 90s. We better check that.

23:39

Well, that was like neuroplasticity. Yes. Back in the 90s. We were wired for life. Yes. I know. Exactly. Exactly.

Kylie Patchett  23:50

That's so cool. Because, um, even back then, when I was doing Yeah, some study, when I heard that sort of wired for life. I was like, that's not my story. I don't believe that we don't develop it. Because I mean, one of my biggest belief systems is we always add choice. And I have people in my family that believe the exact opposite. And so I think that that is actually what gave me that. I'm like, No, that is not my story. Life is not being done to me, I'm not the victim of this story. It's like I still can choose to react in a different way or respond in a different way or whatever. And I think that's a very early learning of like, you can't change other people, but you absolutely can change how you respond to other people. And that might include not being around those other people and that's okay.

24:37

And you'll find people will leave your map. Yes. And that's okay. Because you have totally different maps. Yeah. And, and I think and that was another thing when I was at school, I will I've always been very different and found myself on a road with no you're not on that. rode with everyone else. And you know, the wonderful moment when you realize, actually, I am forging new I'm not lost. Yeah, the roads for others to follow. Yeah, you know, and it's, it's, it's teaching our children that as well, yeah, because we'll have lots of people listening who have been taught that, you know, if everyone's going in that direction, then I need to follow us. Whereas, you know, it doesn't mean it's the right direction for you, and you can whip off and be alone on the backroads. And you're not a loner, you're actually independent and listening to your own map and your own Do

Kylie Patchett  25:42

you Yeah, forging new new roads, new paths, new journeys new. See being on a back road really attracts because we we have a motorbike and my very favorite thing to be is on a back road with trees and cows and no one else like that probably pretty much speaks to my personality, I'm quite, quite individually happy to be on my own path. I'm really interested to hear when you were talking about the young person that was halfway up the rock face and you said something about it's the first time that he did he, he can't remember the verb that you said from the inside. When you when you think about the bullying kind of behavior, and or the violence or the you know, offend offending and whatever. When kids are acting out like that, do you often find that the emotional resilience work that you do? Allows them to get goosebumps again, geez, Louise allows them to start being internally satisfied and resourced so that they don't necessarily have to do all of that stuff outside?

27:05

Absolutely, if so, if I look at a school community, and the schools that have done it properly, because what it is, it's, it's a language, and I use language of very simple language like rough and smooth, and I'll teach you the other one as well, because it changes your neural pathway. So you actually do change a habit of judging and blaming. So the judging comes from, you know, good and bad roads or bad experiences. That was a bad judgment. And if it's bad, it's bad forever.

Kylie Patchett  27:40

Whereas people too, because a lot, particularly in the school system, this child has the problems like no probably

27:52

say, you know, it was a rough decision. Yes, then rough is there's no judgment to it. And it's finite, because no road lasts forever. So, so, rather than bad, being bad, you can't go anywhere with bad, whereas rough, it's only a pet, you know, and then you're able to go from that. So that's the first language trans rough and smooth, and the other one is taking away the blame. It's your fault. I'm mad, you make me angry. Now, if I, if I said to you, you make me angry. What I'm actually doing is giving you my steering wheel. Now I'm left without a steering wheel, I feel vulnerable. Okay to get back my steering Well, I'm going to retaliate. I have to fight again. You said this to me. So I'm going to say this to you. And so everyone learns to say instead of it's your fault, or I'm choose, you know, or you made me you say I am choosing to feel angry at the moment, because what you did was inappropriate. And you do it. Sorry. Sorry,

Kylie Patchett  29:01

go go go complete your sentence, and then I'll tell you something. Oh, no, sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you.

29:07

That's okay.

Kylie Patchett  29:08

I think that if I had to choose like the one thing parenting wise that I taught my kids that really has helped them, it's that it's like, I'm not making you anything. You're choosing to feel this in response to what has just happened. But they now turn it against me.

29:28

Of course, and

Kylie Patchett  29:29

I'm like, don't be approaching the mother. In the box, continue, please.

29:36

But Daddy needs but you're giving them back control and they're no longer a victim. I am choosing to feel this way, which is really important. And so what's happened now, especially in schools who are using this, someone can say something really mean or do something mean? And everyone looks at looks at them and says Are you okay? They don't immediately risk on and say, Why did you say that? To me? It should have been this. I've heard that they, if someone's like this, they're out of control. And they're the ones who are on the rough road, you get to choose whether you want to join them or not. And if you want to join them fine, or is that I know, I know. And the bully doesn't get judged, because and obviously, this doesn't condone bullying, because anything has consequences. I know you're out of control, there's consequences. But I also teach them, how to identify what influences them to lose control, and what helps them get back into control. And I teach that right up to 100. Because I asked people, well, what do you do? So I'll go back a step, I call them tip, and pet. So tips and pets. Tips are the things that influence you to lose control. And tip stand for trigger extra precaution. Now, because you need to be holding on to your wheel properly. Because I didn't use the word trigger, because that's already got negative consequence. It has Yeah, oh, that's your trigger trigger. Whereas if you say, oh, that's one of my tips, and you understand that tips are challenges. They're not bad for you. Yeah, they're challenges to improve your resilience and your driving skills. And it's the daily tips that are filling everyone's glass, because they're not realized they don't know how to deal with it. So if you think if I say I'm holding a glass, and most people know this, I'm holding a glass of water. Is it heavy? Yeah, no, no, very funny. If I hold it for two weeks, two months, two years, and this is what's happening, because then a tiny tip can happen. And if your glass has fallen, you've been holding it for 20 years, you're over here. Exactly. And we have a lot of people really confronting some very hard mental and emotional issues. And, and often we look into their lives and think, Well, if they got a better life than I have, why, why are they alive? Yeah, exactly. Yes. But it's those daily tips. So what is a tip? Well, it could be the alarm clock in the morning, it could be having to get up and cook breakfast for everyone. It could be you getting in the shower and seeing your body and thinking oh, it could be working out what clothes to wear, it could be having to sharp it could be someone chewing next to you, that's loud. Mine.

Kylie Patchett  32:49

I'm gonna stab you with my phone if you don't close your mouth.

32:54

Exactly. So there's all sorts of tips. And they happen all day, every day. And they should because that it's understanding what they are. And then working out a pet, which is a personal emotional tool to go with them. And foods. And if you look at tip and pet, they're exactly the same letters, but in reverse, because life is about perspective. And it's about taking control of that perspective. And so at that moment when I asked people so what are your personal motion tours? What pets helped you get back into control? Yeah. A lot of adults they find it hard to get beyond chocolate gets alcohol concept for a lot of people. Yeah. Exercise. And you know, excuse me, they Yeah, it is. Well said. It's an alien response. Well, and you know why? Because so many of us do it for them. Well, I've got nothing to do. I'll give you something to do. I'm feeling upset. I'll take you to lunch. I'll give you these flowers. I'll give you some chocolates. Oh, you know, we're constantly trying to run up pull up. Exactly. Yeah. Now I'm not saying don't do that. But think about how many times am I taking someone's ability to increase their their driving schools away? By coming and it's something I've had to learn because I'm a fixer. Yeah, me too. If that's broken, I'm in there. Yeah. Oh, yes. For you, I've

34:32

got my get my hero cape on.

34:35

Absolutely. And it was a whole different different definition of who I am when I started to tone that down. Yeah. And, and, you know, give my family chances to fix it themselves for a start and, and friends, etcetera, etcetera. So, it's it's understanding that the pets You need to know to work on your own first. And the best way to do it is to start with a tip. So the tip is your alarm clock in the morning. Now, if that is something that's a tip that sends you a bit out of control, then you're going to be like this. Yes. Now a new day, are you going to be able to think of a pet, then? No, because you're thinking brains not even there. So the night before, you think, okay, I love this song, I'm going to get that song ready on my phone, or whatever to play as I wake up, or I'm gonna get up and listen to a podcast, or this is a brilliant meditation. I'm just going to listen to this. It's for five minutes. So you pick your pets beforehand, when you're in control. Yeah, nice. And it's Yeah, which is makes me which is really important. So. So that's what you do, you name all your tips, and then you create pets to go with them. And you're much more likely to grab them. And what you're trying to do is basically create new neural pathways, because you're all of us are going down six lane highways that are leading us to a destination, we don't even want to go. But we've done it so much, that it's actually more comfortable than Bush betting a new road. And it's it's understanding, because a lot of people they start with, it's probably a good time to bring in emotional addiction now, because people are going down these six lane highways, yeah. And they don't want to change. And when they do try and change, for example, I'm going to eat better, I'm going to do more exercise, I'm going to do that they will do it for a week or two weeks. And then they'll sabotage themselves and go straight back. And then there's, you know, I'm useless, I'm hopeless, there's all these blame? Well, so often, it's not your willpower, it's actually your biochemical addiction to that emotional chemical. So what happens if I'm thinking, I'm useless? You know, I can't fit into this society. I'm a useless mom. I mean, if you've been thinking that all the time that chemical has been going into your blood, and your cells don't judge what chemical comes past, and initially, you may have had one receptor for that feeling of worthlessness. Well, the cells looking at like, Whoa, this is coming past a lot, I think we're going to have to create more receptors. So the next time it It doubles, the receptors, and then doubles and doubles. Every time it replicates, it doubles, until your cell is addicted to that worthless chemical. And so you do start to feel better. And suddenly this chemical of, you know, hey, I'm actually have a lot of self worth, I'm feeling good. Or I'm losing weight, and I'm eating properly, I've got more energy. And these little cells go. Where, where's our chemical? With, you know, and they may not even have a chemical for, I mean, a receipt for this feeling of worthiness? Yes, exactly. And so what the body does is actually send signals to the brain to make you feel worthless again. So you can then send that chemical back, and the cycle goes on. And I found once people understand it can be biochemical, it's not their willpower. They're not useless. It gives them the energy and control and fortitude to keep going. And think no, this, this is worth it.

Kylie Patchett  38:52

By sharing that information. You've also deleted the story of blame, which, again, is judgment, which is the source of all suffering, like, you know, it's not the it's not the thing we go through. It's the story that we make of it that mostly the suffering comes from. Yes.

39:08

And they say 70% of your memories are false, anyway. Yeah. Isn't

Kylie Patchett  39:13

that crazy? Really, it's such a good example of that. In about May last year, I went back to where my grandparents are from, and so many of the memories that I had, about where things were physically, for instance, we've just completely wrong. And I was just like, if my brain is that flawed, like if my memory is that flawed, in that I'm not actually recalling fat, then that's actually so much freedom because that means I get to just choose what I want to make meaning of and memory of, and that was actually a thing. For me. I felt as you're talking I'm reminded I just recorded an interview a couple of weeks ago, and I was talking about feeling like old neural pathways are like the alo slippery dip at McDonald's like the really fun one that goes around and around. And even though you know that it's not good for irresistible sometimes. But yes. So okay, that makes sense to me because I'm actually I'm working on surrendering a particular pattern. And I do feel like I am addicted to this, this thing. And I've actually just been saying that to a friend of mine that we talk a lot about, yeah, mindset and emotional stuff. And I'm just like, I know that I want to stop it. But and I, I often come back to this concept of like you were saying before, like having a lot of rough roads, for instance, I think when you have had a lot of rough roads, and particularly rough roads in childhood, you learn that you can only drive on rough roads. And so you create rough roads, again, and again and again. And so what I'm working on at the moment is increasing my capacity for ease. So now you've given me another layer of like, Ah, I'm actually learning maybe, in some ways for the first time how to drive on a smooth road. Absolutely. I have that addiction too. Because I watch myself sometimes I'm like, Ah, that happened. And I'm better at going. Okay, there's a pause here, you've got a choice. Well done. But the next bit is doing something new and different. That feels easier. Like it feels easier to me sometimes ease feels very threatened. uncomfortable, very uncomfortable. Yeah. physically uncomfortable. Yes. And that's why I often resist things like meditation and taking time out and putting my legs up the wall, and all the things that I teach other people to do hilariously, because it makes me feel good.

41:51

But, but the thing is to that, though, you've got to find things that will make you feel good and be comfortable. Yes, see, meditate. And this is where, you know, the whole meditation and mindful movement is fantastic. But there's a lot of people that meditation is their tip, that actually sends them out of control. And so it takes them out of doing it, it may be you know, you actually go outside and jump on the trampoline for 20 minutes, you go and shoot some baskets, you go for a swim down the beach, you know, and it's looking at all those and thinking, that's what I need to do. Now talking about pets, there are appropriate and inappropriate ones. Because for example, if you need to stack the dishwasher, you know, you asked one of the kids to stack the dishwasher, you know, saying how they turn it back on you. Yeah, oh, that's putting me on a rough road, I'm out of control, I need to go and do my pet, which is the video game for the next week. And that's not that's procrastination. That is and we all do it as well with with things that's making me feel uncomfortable. So I'm going to go and do something that's probably not good for me. And, and this is where dopamine addiction comes in. It's knowing with the pets, which pets produce serotonin, or oxytocin or something, and which ones are dopamine producing? And let's dive about that. Well, the dopamine producing ones online shopping, video games.

Kylie Patchett  43:39

Oh, since addiction, I'm guessing,

43:42

well, food, food, carbohydrate, too much carbohydrate or too much sugar? Exactly. All of those things are dopamine producing, and they and say, for example, you're playing a video game. And what's happening is you're the game is getting more and more exciting, because you're getting better at it, you're getting more challenges. Well, dopamine is actually an inhibitory and excitatory artery, right? So but because it's excitatory, it gets one neuron excited, and then that neuron gets the next one. And the next one, the next one, to the point where if they get too excited, they actually die. So to the brain helps protect itself by okay, this neuron, we're going to take away all the receptors except one for dopamine and, and then when you say that you need a bigger hit, to be able to get that dopamine hit. And then eventually the brain says, I'm actually going to stop producing natural dopamine. You're only get going to get dopamine when you play a game, because otherwise there's too much. So we've got all these people who, when there's nothing happening, they're bored. You On and on a smooth road. They're bored. Yeah, well, where's the head? You know, and so they'll do party drugs or you know something to create that stimulation. Yeah, because they are addicted to dopamine. And I

Kylie Patchett  45:14

am I don't do party drugs are not moving at all. Neither is alcohol. Sugar is was definitely something that I ran to but my dopamine hit and I do explain it like that it's like a an addicts going hit me hit me like again and again is over working and achieving something that is the and that's what I'm working on. Just like Canva if down, like you do not need to work around the clock. And I think

45:45

also it's achieving something out here.

Kylie Patchett  45:48

Yes. Yes, yes, exactly. And so I'm what I am, actually is you're talking about pets. It's so funny that pet is that because my husband from the very first night that we met has called me pet. He's in my phone as pet and yes, anyway. Lovely. Random. Married 24 years and he still calls me.

46:12

Nice. Yeah. I love I say, ya know,

Kylie Patchett  46:18

we've got such Australian names like Kylie and Shane. It's like calls and shine. Oh. Anyway, I'm sorry, everybody for listening to my awful Yes, you are. Right. So it's about external. And so what I have been shifting towards is enjoying things that feel good. internally for no. External result. Yeah, whatever. And that's actually been a beautiful exploration. So I would have just went back to dance class last Wednesday night. was so cool. It's so funny. I was saying to my friend, like, my, my brain doesn't remember any of the language like I danced for years, like, over 10 years as a kid. My brain doesn't remember any of the language really. But my body as soon as she says a step. I'm like, okay, my body, obviously. But yeah, that's also our class. So yeah, just things that feel good, but not for any. Yeah. External.

47:27

Not fixing anything, or Yes,

Kylie Patchett  47:29

not fixing any of that the hero Cape has been a big source of dopamine for me. But I've come a long way. I have to say in that respect, which I'm very

47:39

well done. Yeah. Well, it's, it's really interesting. And I because someone was saying, Well, what's your definition of a leader, and one of them was vulnerability, which is really important. And I found that last year, because I'm someone who's always been able to do everything all the time. Uh, huh. fix everything. And you know, and have very capable. Absolutely. And I just taught a zoom class to some, some guys in their 20s on how to present. Yeah. And my friend was overseas. And she was in Las Vegas at the time. And so I rang her and I said, I finished and, and she said, Oh, we're just about to eat. I'll bring you back. Yeah. Well, she rang me back an hour later. And I said to her, where are you? And she said, I'm in Las Vegas. I said, Where am I? You're in your apartment? Okay, what's this book? You just wrote it? By written a book? Yeah. What's this? What's this? Some? The suitcase? What's the suitcase? And she said, you've just been to Sydney, whilst in Sydney, your granddaughters there? Do I have a granddaughter? And then I'd say, where are you? Vegas? Where am I? And I will looped for about 20 minutes. And she thought, I'm gonna have to ring her younger son. So she said, just sit on the couch. You'll be fine. I felt right. Yeah. And so she then rang Sam and Sam came, and I managed to let him in house and the first thing I said to him is, why have you got that shirt on? You don't work for them anymore. I said I've been I've been to the future. Which wasn't too woowoo for mum. Oh, yes. Yeah.

Kylie Patchett  49:39

It's just a normal Thursday.

49:43

Exactly. And but I started looping with him. And so he called the ambulance and they came and they took me to the outfit. And I suppose eight hours later, I was sitting on a trolley, you know, in the queue and I came I sort of came Too and I'm thinking, and Sam wasn't allowed in, but he could see me. So he ran in and said, It's okay, ma'am, you're okay. You're in the hospital, we're not sure what's happened. And anyway, they will be into one of those Kirtland petitions. And, and I was back, just like that. And I said, fascinating. He said, Oh, my God don't say that word. Again. You've been saying it for the last day. Fascinating yet. And I had 10 hours of total memory loss. Like I wouldn't have a clue what I did and, and what it's called, is transient global amnesia. And usually, it's caused by an accident, you know, and people can't remember the first hour or two. Yeah, exactly. And it's I think there's only there's been very few cases like mine that you know, there was nothing actually major. But in the next morning, then you're and there are no residual side effects. Nothing. And

Kylie Patchett  51:04

what what's your gut feel about?

51:08

My eldest Why, what's the message?

Kylie Patchett  51:10

Oh, it

51:11

was too late. Because my eldest son, he actually diagnose me from Google before the doctors did. Go. And he said, your computer shut down. Because it was I worked and it's really opened. Yeah. And it it was, I'm human. I'm definitely mortal. I, it was, I need to slow down I need to value my physical body. My resources, the even though I ate well, I exercise I do all of that. And I meditate and Wim Hof breathing.

Kylie Patchett  51:57

Yes, yes. Oh, all the good things. That can

52:01

be Yeah, just is is horrific. And, you know, only plant based foods and, you know, intermittent fast, which I've done since I was 15. Way before it was too old. Anything. Yeah, exactly. But it's it has taught me an enormous amount that you really do need to honor this body on a very deep level, not just the superficial things of yes, I'm doing that. And that. And that, what it did, because I was almost ready to launch my new business. And what it did for me is, I've done all the work. It's all there. The outcome has nothing to do with me. Exactly. Yeah. And yeah, so that was my, I mean, we've heard it so many times. And we've helped people through that stuff. So it was an I tick that box to have something as dramatic as a TGA. Because if I'd got the flu, I wouldn't have noticed, you know, I would have just powered through or, you know, given myself time off, but then yeah,

Kylie Patchett  53:11

but But yeah.

53:13

All over again. Yeah, absolutely. So I chose this to show myself, you know, you need to really honor your physical body and, you know, in a different way, and not be tied to those outcomes. And

53:30

external stuff.

53:32

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm thanks. And when we look back, I'd had some three huge emotional stresses to do with family, bang, bang, bang, and then and that's what just,

Kylie Patchett  53:47

yes. Except there's three of them. And you're also trying to launch a business at the same time. Yeah. And we look back and go, Oh, no wonder that was difficult. But at the time, it's interesting, isn't it? The

54:00

more you juggle, the more you can juggle? Because you you know, it's just

Kylie Patchett  54:04

been having this conversation this morning. And she said, Yeah, I'm in a mastermind, where we check in on Monday morning, and I was like, I feel like I have got so many plates spinning. I do not know which one to spin next. I'm just trying not to drop anything. And I am extremely aware that I have got the t shirt that says, you know, build a business burnout and blow it up and walk away. And I'm not willing to do that. So I've just hired two assistants who am onboarding today, which is very exciting, but well done. Yeah, I feel like you might have just shared that precisely to remind me because I think my problem has always been that I've always had such good energy that it's I can get away with or have been able to get away with just working working making making. But it's like that doesn't mean it's healthy. And it doesn't mean that you're you're getting away with it long term because I feel like I don't know where the balance

54:58

is. Yeah. And that's where my balance or I cuz I have energy all the time. But I'm doing that with it. Yeah. And now I have to loop it back. So it's balanced. So I'm giving it out. But I'm also looping at receiving receiving. Yeah. And knowing that and knowing that you're worthy to receive, yes, you know, yes. You know, a lot of people feel unworthy to their I was really fortunate. I had a great upbringing, and I've never wanted to be anyone else. You know, it's always felt good. But yeah, a lot of people find it really difficult to, to do those nice things to themselves. Yeah,

Kylie Patchett  55:42

I do. It makes it very uncomfortable. But I am, I am learning even like I, in the last year, I started to float. I love being in water. And I've started magnesium flooding. And I do it at least every month. I'm thinking I might increase to fortnightly one. But that is actually been such a beautiful gift to just yeah, just flip. And I love that you can't at the city cave place that I go to you can't actually tell what's air and what's water because everything's precisely the same temperature. So it is literally like floating in perfect. It's the most restful, I'm, I love it so much. I love it so much. I feel like every time I go there, it's just learning not to hold up a thimble for receiving but actually expanding that container and that comfort in the container. Like you were saying before. Jane, tell us more about your book. I know there's so many things that I wanted to hear. I feel like you need to come back for part two, because so many more questions.

56:43

Tell us about your book, please. Okay, it's called it's in your hands, your steering wheel, your choice. And then because because it is and it's it's like families. And and I've just done an audio course, you know, someone wanted to dip their toes in rather than, and this is an audio course, which is basically the summary of the book. Excellent. And, and the book, it's the it's divided into three different areas. The first one is like the driving manual. So it goes over all the stuff we've talked about the middle section is 60 messages, because I give out messages. I when I did going back to why I said Dr. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Kylie Patchett  57:30

In regard to that.

57:35

When I first left school, and I created this, and it was working, I went to schools, and I said yes, this works. And they said, what your qualifications? Are you just and I swear Yeah. And I said, but but it works. You know, don't isn't anyway, I thought, Okay, I'm going to go and get my PhD on this and prove that it works. Well. I did it with first year uni students. And they got a text a day for eight weeks. That's all. They didn't meet me. I didn't meet them. So it was only the language on the text that changed. And it was things like are you driving under the influence of someone else's emotion? Who you know, you can dim girl? That's a good question. You know, you can and it was so they got that Monday to Friday, because I didn't want them to have it at the weekend. Because then that over does it, you know, that drip effect? And so, yes, eight weeks, and I did a pre and post test and I had a control group. Well, I did the post test during exam times and I thought, Oh, I'm not gonna get any results. And I was prepared for that. You know, I thought that's what's going to happen. Yeah. Well, it was it was gobsmacking. That's all I can say. Weird word, but I think it says I love smacking. Smacking. The control group virtually didn't change. But the SMS group changed on everything. It increased their psychological well being their life satisfaction, their resilience levels. And it's to and with research and has to be I can't remember the name, you know, it has to be significant significance. It has to be a significant change. Well, they were significant changes on all of them, and their psychological distress levels lowered to that below the average uni students so their stress levels went right down and everything else built up.

Kylie Patchett  59:41

Did you go back to the schools that said what are your qualifications and like be like Sorry, that's just

59:51

I'm really thankful they do that because I would never have done Yes thesis otherwise this research, and then I do interviewed 20 of them. Yep. And out of the 20 It stopped three of them from suiciding, oh, my goodness, I eggs and I have, I was just blown away, I had no idea. And one of the boys, he said, the text that changed him was, if you're out of control on a rough road, it's okay. Just slow down, take a deep breath and know that no road lasts forever. And he's, but with, also with, because the end this insect and so you've got 60 messages that you can just open up, you know, and see which one is for you that day. Or that moment? And then the end bit is the research and with the research, you have to come up with a theory. Yeah, well, I came up with the anonymous caring connection theory. Because the feedback I got was that the students felt that they they didn't know it was wasn't just a machine, just sending out these texts, like a fairy kind of thing. It was there, there was someone out there who cared. And this is the fascinating thing with AI now, because the Instagram think the influences, and now the most popular because and they're all AI, they're not people, because as soon as you text them, they text back straightaway. And so it's no longer like Descartes said, I think therefore I am. It's now I am responded to therefore I am. And that's what I I believe that's what it is now, and and that fascinated me. So I was so grateful to the schools for not listening. But then my journey from there was really interesting. No one still wanted to listen, because they didn't want to take responsibility. Everyone was so used to blame that they didn't and everyone wants a quick fix. So a language change is something it's a long term solution x. Yes. Whereas they wanted a quick fix. And oh, what I'm doing for resilience is fine. I we teach resilience, you know, on Thursday at five, five fast food

Kylie Patchett  1:02:23

resilience versus a nourishing home cooked meal that someone's grown for you over time with love like that, too. Did very different.

1:02:31

Beautifully bad if you're addicted to that fast food. Yeah, no. And it hit me

Kylie Patchett  1:02:37

hit me hit me. Like I get the feeling that I'm doing something therefore I must be. Could we circle back to I know, we talked about dopamine. And I want to come back to your story as well. But oxytocin and serotonin, how do we tell the difference between a pet that helps us produce that versus the dopamine ones? Like, could you give us just an example.

1:02:59

Okay, so because you can't get addicted to serotonin, and whereas you can to dopamine, a good idea. Say for example, if there's an activity that you do that you get like, and this is a good thing to do with your kids as well, if they're playing a video game, say okay, you're gonna only play that video game for 15 minutes. And then when the timer goes off, you've got to stop straightaway. And and it's also good to do that to yourself, say, Well, no, I use Instagram to sort of unwind and I scroll. Yes, exactly.

Kylie Patchett  1:03:34

That's how I use Instagram. I'm feeling like shit. Oh, go on Instagram and scroll and like, why?

1:03:41

Well, that's where you give yourself 10 minutes. Yeah, say, Okay, I'm gonna give myself 10 minutes and at the end of 10 minutes when the alarm goes off, if you even think I'll just finish this one, or I'll just go on to it's an addiction. Gotcha. And it's an especially with with yourself and others, it's good to have a pet already organized for the end of the 10 minutes. Okay, so when that goes, I'm going to go and squeeze myself some orange juice, or I'm going to go outside and

Kylie Patchett  1:04:16

get out in the garden and do some weeding around the veggies or something because then I'm like, oh, fresh with the dogs. I'm doing something that is later going to nourish me so they so that's yeah, so

1:04:27

if you can stop straightaway without even even mid mid reading something to stop then. So you're

Kylie Patchett  1:04:35

I deleted the apps off my phone. Because if I can't part of that there's something about the actual finger movement of the scrolling that I find very soothing. And but it's addictive like it's not a healthy way better than

1:04:52

rolling their eyes up and down. Yes, is addicting to dopamine Correct. Whereas the Slide isn't so they're very clever. No, they're they've got to win. Whereas that not so much. Yeah. So

Kylie Patchett  1:05:07

Instagram on my computer, not at all the same because I'm not I am not doing that. You've taught me so much. I'll come

1:05:16

back to you part of it. And that's it. And that's why, you know, another really important pet is listening to birds sound. Ah, cuz it's my new favorite thing. Well done. Because what that does is, and it's, you know, from when we were ancient, it's when the birds are singing, it means everyone's safe. Yeah, they're safe. They're safe. And it what it does, is it created it triggers. That's okay. Yeah. So listening to birds sound is the best pet.

Kylie Patchett  1:05:49

I did a program with a beautiful Sara Brock who is a healer. And she does lots of amazing energy work earlier last year. And in it, she was sharing some nervous system regulation tools. And one of the things that's really stuck with me is just even the simple thing of like, I spent a lot of time at my computer and I've got to sit stand so I start to stand out more, but I'm facing the Western Wall. So in the summer, I've always got my blind down. And so I'm not often looking wide. And that's another thing that says I'm safe because when we're under threat, our our eyeballs are very focused on the source of danger, a potential source of danger. But even just turning around and actually looking around my room, like I love everything in this room. So it's like noticing how like my plants are and feeding my indoor plants outdoor rainwater at the moment because we've had so much rain and they're just like little things like that. But the birdsong we have got these tiny little, and I don't know what they're called, but they're little like Ren type of shaped birds, and they've got this bright blue on the back of them. I'm sure they're the boys there's also brown ones and I'm sure they're the girls but they in

1:07:08

the little blue rains, like

Kylie Patchett  1:07:12

little in I'm just Ah, love it because I've I'm, I've got a new routine and yeah, sitting outside to have breakfast even just start my day with a little bit of Yeah, well always move first. But you know, to get out there and that sound is so soothing. And

1:07:27

that's what it is. It's it's it's, it's getting you into your parasympathetic nervous system and relaxing. Another really good one is in the shower, when you just put it actually stimulate stimulate serotonin when the shower hits between your shoulder blades, or and we often just standard.

Kylie Patchett  1:07:48

Do you know what I do all the time. And I actually wonder whether this is something to do with ADHD and I've also got Ehlers Danlos. So I, I can get quite a lot of joint pain, although it's good at the moment. Touchwood is rocking, and particularly rocking from my hips are doing figure eights, or something's there's something about that. And I guess when you pick up a baby and they're upset, what do you do rocks? Exactly. So is it the vestibular system? That kind of? I don't know. Anyway, it feels good. Who cares? Who cares? Why works. Sorry, I want to come back, though, to what you were saying. So you've done the PhD, then the schools weren't listening. And then you've ended up on a different journey. You were starting to say that.

1:08:27

Well, let me qualify that. Yes. schools that did listen, have been amazing. Amazing. Yeah. And so and I've got a lot in South Australia. Oh, lovely in the rural area, and Tasmania. They were the two major ones that that took it on. And there's now the Indy schools in Yes, Queensland as they're going to take it on this year, my

Kylie Patchett  1:08:54

girls went to a barefoot Buddhist school for most of their primary schooling in Mulaney. So I'm a big fan of alternative schooling and the way that they can be much more flexible with the way that they hold space for their kids. So it doesn't surprise me that alternative schools also listening.

1:09:13

Exactly. And it depends who's there. I found it's really interesting, because some people are really invested in their resilience program that's created. And so I go into a school and I can already and I just know that that's not going to go anywhere. Like even the university I did it at, you know, wouldn't take it on, even though some of them had, you know, they hadn't suicided you know, it's and that's been a wonderful lesson to just walk away and just say that's okay, they haven't ticked that box. That's, that's all right. And

Kylie Patchett  1:09:49

coming back to what you said about being a pioneer and being on a different road. Not everybody is even going to see that there's a road there or see the value in the road and I Do you think when you're an innovator, you do need to get surrendered to that. Otherwise you can cause yourself a lot of angst?

1:10:08

I started this in 2009. Yeah. You know, it wasn't just yesterday, ya know?

Kylie Patchett  1:10:13

It's a big body of work. Yeah. And

1:10:17

then I've loved every bit and, you know, if it goes somewhere it does. If it doesn't, it doesn't. It's it's exactly where it's meant today. Yeah.

Kylie Patchett  1:10:28

I trust that the universe. Yeah. allows the right people to hear even people listening to this. You just don't know where things end up? No, you die. Right. People hearing the right message at the right. Yep.

1:10:41

And it's no good and bad. Yes, exactly.

Kylie Patchett  1:10:45

coming right back to our original

1:10:48

circle back. Yes, exactly. Yeah,

Kylie Patchett  1:10:51

I have learned so much, you have been an absolute joy to talk to, I would love to have you back for a second part. Because I really would love to delve even more into how our narrative about things and the good and the bad and the judgment can impact things like menopause or big life changes. Because I do, I've been doing a lot of reading lately around medical model versus social cultural model of menopause. And yeah, it's very interesting how cultures that have a story of women stepping into wisdom, and you know that they they're venerated as an amazing source of power, and magic. And all of those things, amazingly, don't have much menopause issues at all. But they also by definition, in those cultures, there's a space, you know, there's, it's expected that people will go through a big powerful transformation. And so therefore, there's not the social or internal pressure to meet all those external demands that we've set up in the first part of our life trying to be happy and successful like we started with. So there has to be part two, if you would be so kind. Absolutely.

1:12:00

No, it's been an absolute delight talking with you.

Kylie Patchett  1:12:04

Thank you so much. Now, we will book we will link to your book and audio course on your website and down below, but just for people listening, let us know what your website is.

1:12:16

It's one word, emotional resilience. training.com.au. Perfect. So that's where they'll find the better finding the resources there then. Yeah, and I published through Bell boa. And yeah, some of it's a bit expensive. So

Kylie Patchett  1:12:36

will you and will they find the audio book from the website? I'm not yes. Sorry. The audio course. Yeah,

1:12:42

can the audio course and I've also done my own ebook there as well. Oh, perfect. They wanted that.

Kylie Patchett  1:12:48

Amazing. I am off to download immediately. Everything you've created. Thank you so much, Jane. And yeah, I'd love to see you again. And yeah, die. I'd love

1:12:58

to be here too, then. Thank you, everyone for listening.

Kylie Patchett  1:13:03

Oh, what a good way to start on Monday. I'm like beaming now.

1:13:06

Beautiful. Yes. I feel good too. Yeah. in control of our steering wheel. And if we lose control, that's okay. That's okay, too. Yes. Yes. Regain. I love it. Thank you so much. You too. Thanks, Kylie. Bye.