In this episode, we explore Caryn Rance's journey through homeschooling and entrepreneurship. Caryn is a graphic designer based in Mandurah, Western Australia. With a passion for exploration and learning, Caryn finds inspiration in the natural beauty of her surroundings, often taking walks along the Serpentine River. She shares her workspace with her husband, her son—who runs his own business—and two rescue dogs, Charlotte & Brie.
Key Takeaways:
Links mentioned in this episode:
Listen to this episode and more atwww.kpkreative.com.au/pod
___
Come connect with Kylie on Insta @kyliepatchett or Facebook @kyliepatchettonline
and online for all your menoPAUSE and Brand, Content and Copy Storytelling needs at Kylie's brand new web home www.kpkreative.com.au
In this episode, we explore Caryn Rance's journey through homeschooling and entrepreneurship. Caryn is a graphic designer based in Mandurah, Western Australia. With a passion for exploration and learning, Caryn finds inspiration in the natural beauty of her surroundings, often taking walks along the Serpentine River. She shares her workspace with her husband, her son—who runs his own business—and two rescue dogs, Charlotte & Brie.
Key Takeaways:
Links mentioned in this episode:
Listen to this episode and more atwww.kpkreative.com.au/pod
___
Come connect with Kylie on Insta @kyliepatchett or Facebook @kyliepatchettonline
and online for all your menoPAUSE and Brand, Content and Copy Storytelling needs at Kylie's brand new web home www.kpkreative.com.au
Kylie: [00:00:00] Hello, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I have another beautiful guest with me. It is Caryn Rance from the beautiful company, Firefly Graphics. And she's here to talk about all things. Holy moly. We're going to cover so much. Schooling, ADHD, brains, neuro sparkly, superpowers. Um, different ways of looking at education.
Kylie: Hello and welcome.
Caryn: Hey,
Kylie:Yes. Hello. Um, do you want to actually introduce yourself to our listeners? Um, I know we're going to talk about heaps, but just however you want to introduce yourself. I don't like the formal bio.
Caryn: I'm Caryn. Um, I've been a graphic designer for about 15 years now.
Caryn: Um, I'm also a homeschool mum and actually graphic design is like my third career. Um, I've done retail and I've done admin and all of [00:01:00] that. So this is where I find myself now at the age of 48.
Kylie: I love it. When I was reading some of the answers to your questions, I was like, you've had a career path like we, it's like, what's the thing that interests my beautiful brain?
Kylie: That's very good. Very, very cool. Um, we were just chatting before we started recording about the, um, The often repeated phrase that people like you and I who have kids that don't fit into the box of mainstream education. And I was saying to you, reading your story, I wish that I had been more curious about homeschooling because I definitely had a message in my head that it was something that I didn't have the patience for.
Kylie: I didn't have the knowledge or training for. I didn't have the time for. I didn't have the time for. And you have been on quite the journey. So your beautiful son is now 14.
Caryn: Um, I've heard that a [00:02:00] lot, no time, no patience. I've heard parents say they're too selfish for homeschool, um, that they're not capable of homeschooling, um, that they can't teach their kids anything.
Caryn: Um, and I probably thought all those things myself at some point and occasionally You know, still do every now and then. Um, but a lot of, cause there's so many stereotypes around homeschooling that, um, and if you don't know anyone that homeschools. You really probably believe those stereotypes and every homeschooler lives a very different life.
Caryn: There are so many different ways to homeschool. I mean there are people that homeschool with you know, they buy a curriculum in a box basically and they do workbooks and worksheets and you know, they work through websites. Being whatever. I don't know. We don't do that. So I don't fully understand that.
Caryn: [00:03:00] That would not suit my son at all. There's there's so many other ways, there's just natural learning like letting kids learn from what they're interested in. There is There's a lot of talk in some groups about strewing, about how parents will just leave educational things out
Kylie: just for their
Caryn: kids to just wander past and go, Oh, that's interesting.
Caryn: And, you know, kids are learning all the time. Anyway, when we're all learning all the time, it's just that you're more likely to probably remember something if you're interested in it. And that's certainly what we found. And, um, so we've kind of project schooled for the most part. Schooled around things that my son's interested in.
Caryn: And if we can get every curriculum area within one project, awesome. We can't always do that. Um, but we don't have English and Maths and Science as a separate subject. All in one,
Kylie: much [00:04:00]
Caryn: like
Kylie: life. Yeah, I know. Crazy. We don't, we don't have a math strand in our life and then a science strand. No. As you were talking, Karen, you were reminding me, and I cannot remember who or where I heard this, but it was along the lines of not, I don't know the word strewing, um, but it was about, Um, it may have been where my kids used to go to school where they basically had this kind of concept that you just exposed kids to lots and lots and lots and lots of different things.
Kylie: And the little person themselves. Just went towards the thing that sparked joy or curiosity in them. And it was no more hated than that. And I'm like, well, it sounds a hell of a lot easier than sitting in a classroom being spoken at for specific subjects. That's
Caryn: that's right. Yeah. That's right. I mean, I don't know about you, but I don't remember a whole lot of what I [00:05:00] learned at school, to be honest.
Caryn: Um, I only really remember the things that, um, are useful to me and that I was really interested in or stuck in my head for some other reason. Um, yeah, so mean, look, I've, I'm not a qualified educator, so I can't, um. I can really only speak from our experiences and from what life's been like for us. And I know mainstream schooling works for some kids and that's great.
Caryn: Um, but there needs to be other options out there and we're really lucky in Australia that we do have those other options.
Kylie: So good
Caryn: for the moment. I think Queensland's having a little bit of trouble at the moment.
Kylie: Not necessarily in the country, um, but there is online schooling options as well. So, um, I'm very curious when, so I think we need to kind of say, take a step back to when you found yourself with a little person who was reading to himself at the age of three and four,
Caryn: three, yeah, three, four, somewhere around [00:06:00] there.
Kylie: Um,
Caryn: as a six month old, like, yes, yeah, he's our only child and, um, we never spent a lot of time around little kids, babies, and we sort of didn't have anyone to compare him to. It's just, that's just how he was. Um, but lots of other people would say, Oh, yeah. But even the, you know, when I was still in hospital with him, the, the midwife came in and was, you know, examining and all that, she's like, Ooh, he's been here before.
Caryn: And like, there's always been comments like that. And you know, I'd take him to the shops, you know, when he was one and he'd just be so engaging with adults. Um, and you know, hold his own conversation, you know, when he's two and three with an adult. And I've had people say to me, Oh, your son's going to be prime minister one day.
Caryn: All these, you know, things I would always comment about the fact that he had such a big vocabulary and [00:07:00] was just able to just have these conversations. And you know, when he was about four, he would, Talked about things like euthanasia and just these big things that he wanted to talk about all the time.
Caryn: And my brain was constantly . Just, you know, I, I didn't get a rest, I didn't get a break, um, until he started reading himself. Um, because then he could, you know, read what he wanted to read and it gave me a bit of a rest. I was so grateful that he was reading when he was, but his, it was honestly, he was.
Caryn: Awesome kid, but my goodness, I was exhausted, so exhausted.
Kylie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I'm like, my girls are 12 months apart and I remember the kind of two and a half and three and a half kind of years where just the constant questioning. Of everything. And by the time I read it, I'd be like, okay, [00:08:00] but it sounds like a whole other level that you went through.
Caryn: It really, really was. Like we used to say that he was just like number five from short circuit, maybe short circuit, the robot that would input, input, input. Like it was just constant.
Kylie: Yeah. You
Caryn: know, and he was just so, so good. I switched on, I switched on. You know, little did we know that he actually had a hearing difficulty and was lip reading as well.
Kylie: Quite
Caryn: a shock to learn that. I mean, his hearing is pretty much fine now. Um, but yeah, it was quite a shock that, um, But he was doing all those things and he couldn't even hear properly.
Kylie: And I think part of your story that I really relate to, and I don't want to, as we were talking about before, um, being careful not to cross boundaries of, you know, sharing our kids lives when it's their story.
Kylie: But, um, I related to parts of what I was reading where you were saying, you know, we thought [00:09:00] that when he went to school, that school would kind of figure out, you know, not, um, not that there was something wrong with him at all, but, but why he was, you know, taking in so much information and processing it so quickly read so much further events, but it sounds like the school system did not do that.
Kylie: Um, in a way, no, didn't cope with him, not for tonight. They
Caryn: really didn't. And, and I know that schools are so, um, hugely under resourced and underfunded, they really are. And at the time, um, our son's school was sharing a school psychologist with another school and, you know, we were, Put on the list for her to get to him.
Caryn: And, you know, he'd been at school for 18 months and we weren't getting anywhere. And we were just, you know, told, look, he's not a priority. He's, he's coping. He's not a priority yet. He wasn't coping. Our life at home was horrible. He wasn't coping. [00:10:00] He was just really good at masking. He's really good at hiding it.
Caryn: And then once he was home and he felt safe,
Kylie: then, you
Caryn: know, hell will break loose. And, you know, for a child to. To realize within a couple of weeks of starting school that he was different to the other kids, to then start hiding his ability to read, that's heartbreaking.
Kylie: It's,
Caryn: you know, and he, he needed more than what they could give him.
Caryn: And it didn't matter what good intentions his, uh, kindy teacher had, his pre primary teacher had. They just didn't have the time and they didn't have the resources. There's too many kids. And then he was also at a school with sort of in a, I guess, a lower socioeconomic area, um, of our town. I mean, great school, but there was a lot of kids who, who, It had come from really difficult homes, like we're experiencing, you know, trauma and, and I [00:11:00] can, on one hand, I can understand why he wasn't a priority because he had a very strong family unit and extended family and all of that,
Kylie: but
Caryn: he mattered too.
Caryn: And it, we couldn't leave him in that situation where he was so distressed and, um, When I, and I was, I was saying to you in the questions that I answered how every year he would get so sick three quarters of the way through the year and the school refused him and all of that and every time our GP thought he had must have glandular fever.
Caryn: He was so unwell, so exhausted and looking back I think it was probably autistic burnout and we didn't know what we were seeing and Yeah, it's, that all stopped once we started homeschooling. Of course. I don't think he's been sick
Kylie: No, you know what you're reminding me of? I was having this reflection.
Kylie: We've got, um, we've had such a hot summer here and finally we've got cooler wet, like it's [00:12:00] definitely turned to autumn, although who knows whether it'll stay like this, but I was out in the garden. A little bit of fresh rain and everything. And I've got this garden where I'm trying, like, we don't have many gardens apart from things that you can eat.
Kylie: Cause that's what my husband's definition of gardening is. If you can't eat it, it doesn't get cleaned. So, right. So most of our garden is pretty cool, which is, which is amazing. Um, I take no credit at all. I cook it, but I do not. But, um, I was just having this reflection moment where in my little garden that I've started to do some, you know, planning of just flowery stuff and, you know, just cute stuff.
Kylie: Um, I accidentally planted my lavender underneath the eaves. And so when it rains, it's not getting any rain. So I'm out like it's raining and I'm out there with my watering can. Watering my lavender, and it just reminded me of that saying, um, when a flower doesn't grow, you don't blame the flower, you bring the environment, you put it in.
Kylie: Yeah. And I'm just like, for sure, [00:13:00] to different, differently abled and particularly, um, kids that have differences in processing, taking information and how they, you know, make connections in that information, um, when we put them in a school system, and then we make them wrong for not being able to cope in that school system.
Kylie: But we actually, it's like, maybe the kid is fine, you
Caryn: know, um, that's right, exactly, exactly. And he would often not be the point for most of the stuff at school. Like now you get a math question, like, you know, max had 20 watermelons and blah, blah, blah. He'll be like. Why does he have 21 more? Why would he have 20?
Caryn: That's like he just questioned everything, questioned everything, or like there was a particular question we had once where what's the probability of a tiger coming through your window? And the answer is meant to be none. And he's like, but what if you live in a zoo or what if you [00:14:00] live in a country where they have tigers in the world?
Caryn: And he would have all these questions. And so a lot of the time he would get these questions wrong. Yeah. Or he would find himself in a bit of paralysis really, where he couldn't answer the question. And then he was trying to figure out how he was supposed to, it was just exhausting for him. Or like what, right.
Caryn: The number one after 3, 452 and he would write the number one because that's what it said to do. Yes. Right. The number one.
Kylie: Yeah.
Caryn: Yeah. Yeah. Very, very literal. And he was constantly in trouble. You know, um, very nice fold of his own.
Kylie: Yeah, exactly. And, and you're reminding me of, um, uh, as I'm, I don't know, I feel like I've gone through the stages of grief around ADHD diagnosis and I'm finally out there and curiosity, right?
Kylie: We've got to get to that as well. Um, but the, the surrender and curiosity has opened me up [00:15:00] to being a little bit more curious about how other people with, like, so I have autism and ADHD and I've never related to it. ADHD. As the stereotype, even in women, because I'm like, that's not what my brain is like, but my brain has this very black and white literal side that likes safety organization, knowing what's coming.
Kylie: And then I have this multicolored rainbow sparkly unicorn side. That's like, but I can absolutely relate to that. Yeah. Internally. I've always felt like. There's two sides of me that are arguing, and now I understand, okay, it's just two different ways of seeing things, but one of the things that I experienced, I think, with the autistic side of my brain, perhaps, and who cares what side of my brain is, what I find myself doing is, um, same sort of thing, literal information, and I would imagine that, like, I can be quite, what would be considered argumentative Because when I [00:16:00] feel like someone's not understanding what I'm trying to say, I can get stuck and I don't do so much anymore because I'm more aware of it, but in that like, no, but you're still not understanding the fact that if I did live in a zoo, there could be a tiger.
Kylie: And so therefore I am right.
Caryn: Yeah.
Kylie: And you can also be right. But it's like that. And I think it's very easy to label that as a kid being difficult or even an adult being difficult. You're not trying to be difficult. We're just trying to get you to see a point.
Caryn: Exactly. That happened to him a lot. Like it really did happen to him a lot.
Caryn: And I was forever at the school. You know, advocating or, you know, intervening or explaining or whatever, you know, he'd come home and he'd tell us something that happened and we'd have to ask him all these questions around it, trying to get to like, I said, what actually happened? You know, trying to work it because remember he was still quite young and even though he had a big, big vocabulary, he couldn't always express himself.
Caryn: And so then I'd have to go ask the teacher what happened. And, [00:17:00] and, you know, I was already at the school a lot because I was secretary of the PNC. I, I did not have time to run my business and be the secretary to PNC and do all of this as well. So when we started homeschooling, I had more time once I got rid of the secretary position that was, I didn't get rid of it till, you know, that little part way through our first year of homeschooling.
Caryn: I could not get anybody to take it off my hands, so off we would trot to the school once a week so I could check the mail and go through all the stuff, you know, that was my job to do. And he hated, hated coming with me. And he, even now, he does not like to go past the school and, um, we, we've moved around the corner now, but we used to be across the road from the school
Kylie: and
Caryn: probably a few months ago.
Caryn: Um, we have, uh, our GP is on the other side of the school, so it's walking distance. If the school wasn't there, you could see it, it's that close.
Kylie: And
Caryn: he had to meet me there. I was coming back from a [00:18:00] networking thing and he had a doctor's appointment and he had to meet me there. I needed him to walk there and meet me.
Caryn: So he was, he was 14. Um, he wasn't there on time. Um, thinking, where are you? And we had to find my iPhone. And I could see him. Like, what are you doing there? And he had gone the long way.
Kylie: Yeah.
Caryn: He had gone probably four times further than he needed to walk because he did not want to walk past the school during school hours.
Caryn: That's how he still feels about what happened to him when he was in school. And, you know, technically he's in year nine now and he left at the end of year one. And that's, I think it's a physical feeling for him.
Kylie: Yeah. He doesn't feel safe.
Caryn: Um, no, no, no. And that's, it's been ages and yeah, he's still holding on to that, which is great.
Caryn: It's really sad for him that he still feels that way. And he won't even visit my, um, his cousin's school or anything. He's been invited to so many different things [00:19:00] at her school and he just won't go because it's the school. And he just won't go, uh, in the gates. When do
Kylie: you first, like, when do you realize that keeping him in school was doing so much harm and, and taking up, you know, exhausting for you with all the advocating and all of the trying to run interference between your school system that doesn't understand and him who may not be able to, um, Yeah.
Kylie: Stand up for himself in a way, because he was so little, like intense, um, when you first decided to homeschool or as you were deciding to homeschool, did you have the same objections that I said, like, how am I going to do this? I don't know how I'm not an educator.
Caryn: Um, I probably did for that whole year of year one, because he'd been wanting us to homeschool him.
Caryn: For like a whole year. It took me probably that long to make up my mind and I thought all those things.
Kylie: I
Caryn: really [00:20:00] did. And, um, it wasn't until I spoke to, I spoke to a home school moderator at the education department and, um, Um, cause I was making some inquiries and I think this is probably around probably the end of term three of year one.
Kylie: And
Caryn: I just need to find out more. And they put me through to a moderator who ended up being our moderator for the first couple of years. Funnily enough, she lived down the street from us and I was explaining to her everything that he'd been going through that I'd been going through. And she understood.
Caryn: And she completely validated all of our concerns, all of our worries, everything that we were upset by for the first time ever, someone validated that. And I just burst into tears and I was, I felt really embarrassed that, that I, that I got so emotional during this conversation and I said, I'm so sorry. I don't know where this is coming from, I'm, I just want to cry and it happens a [00:21:00] lot.
Caryn: It was, it was relief and it was also someone actually gets it and she said, this happens a lot. I've had a lot of these sorts of phone calls. She wasn't surprised that I got so upset at all.
Kylie: She was
Caryn: amazing. And cause she had also, um, been a Piac teacher. I don't know if you have Piac where you are. It's a primary something or a primary extension, something that I can't remember.
Caryn: I was a P. A. C. kid myself and you get pulled out of class and do these extra curricular things. Um, but she was a P. A. C. teacher. Oh, that's probably got a different name. Yeah. Um, so she'd come across a lot of kids. And we'd been holding on to the hope that by the time he got to year four, that he would be able to do PEAC classes.
Caryn: And maybe that would be us, the thing that saved his, you know, mainstream school education. We've been holding on, holding on. And she said to me, or might have been [00:22:00] another educator, I'm not sure. The budget for PEAC had been reduced so much. And it was so difficult to get into it and they had to do all of this testing and everything else to get into it and they had to work to a, um, with like a time test and stuff.
Caryn: And when I heard all of that, I thought, he's got no chance. There's just no way. He might be, he might have the kid with, he might be the kid with the highest IQ and he will not make it into that program because he's not able to, uh, he really struggled to handwrite and he, he wouldn't be able to, to do that.
Caryn: And, um, that was one of the things that was like, okay, we have to do this. We have to do this for home schooling. And. Sorry.
Kylie: That
Caryn: was three
Kylie: years down the track to like grade four, like three years. That's right. School refusal, coming home, losing your shizzle every afternoon. You're advocating.
Caryn: [00:23:00] Exactly. And that's a long time when you're that age as well.
Caryn: Yeah. A really long time. We just couldn't do it. It just couldn't do
Kylie: it. So
Caryn: when you first started, um, the moderator, sorry, go on, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Kylie: no, no, no. When you first started, because I'm just thinking, how would I go about like, my kids are out of school now anyway, but how would I go about homeschooling?
Kylie: And I think my initial kind of, I don't know, step by step process in my head would just be to recreate a school environment, which obviously is not going to work. Did you do that or were you I did
Caryn: that. I totally did that. Most, most home school parents, when they come out of a mainstream education system, that's exactly what they do.
Caryn: Because we don't know any different. Yeah, exactly. [00:24:00] Don't know any different. And, um, backfired spectacularly. Sorry I have to cough. No, it's okay. I just mute myself for a second.
Caryn: Um, I hear that a lot. Um, I belong to quite a lot of Facebook groups. Mm-Hmm. . Um, for homeschoolers there is probably a Facebook group for every type of homeschooler you can imagine.
Kylie: Mm-Hmm.
Caryn: from, um, those that, um, homeschool for religious reasons. For those that homeschool because their kids are twice exceptional, or they have additional needs, or they have physical disabilities, or, um, we have homeschool groups that are based around, uh, science, um, you name it, there is a homeschool group on Facebook [00:25:00] exists for it.
Caryn: There's, there's regional, there's state, there's national, there's international, there's Everything. So, in a lot of those groups, you get people, you get parents coming into them when they're first thinking about it or they've just started and that's exactly what they're doing. A lot of them are doing that, trying to set up school at home and then you've got these, it's going wrong.
Caryn: Of course it is. And then you've got these experienced home educators that go, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, hold on. Did you de school first? It's really important. And everyone's like, what's de schooling? And that was something that I hadn't been told about because we knew nobody that homeschooled. And um, so de schooling is about, well they say, the general rule of thumb is if you've been at school for three years then you de school for three months.
Caryn: It's about completely taking the pressure off. It's about just living your life and just learning what your [00:26:00] child is like away from that mainstream system without all the expectations, without the pressures, without the, you have to learn this and this is what you have to do now. And this is, you can do this for 10 minutes and then you've got to do this, taking away all of that and just finding out, um, this is not a term I use often, but what sparks joy in them.
Caryn: Bye. And what they're interested in, and also you need to figure out how do they learn? Yes. Because everybody learns differently and mainstream education is really set up about, I think, from what I understand, like two different types of learners, when there's like five or six different types of learners.
Caryn: So if you don't fit in that box, um, and I didn't know anything about schooling other than mainstream because that's what I went through. Yeah. And then I knew what I hated and I knew what I liked, so I decided to go to school. I really was, and so was he. But yeah, it just didn't, [00:27:00] didn't work out. But, um, we started, um, creating school at home.
Caryn: You know, I set up his little desk area and, you know, we got our workbooks. And, you know, and I did get workbooks. And I got workbooks that were a few years ahead because you know in English and maths he was tracking a few years ahead and, um, you know, we've got everything all organized and all of that.
Caryn: And it blew up in my face in such a spectacular way. We were just screaming at each other. It was. Yeah. And I was so stressed out, he was stressed out and I'd be going, get your uniform, you're going back to school and you know, awful, awful parenting moment. But I think probably every single homeschooler has been through that because you just, you need that time and we needed to de school.
Caryn: I needed to de school in a huge way and I still catch myself thinking along the mainstream thing. Line of things the all this time later. So after those first few weeks of absolute hell and me thinking [00:28:00] What have I done? I've made the biggest mistake We just took the rest of the term off and we just did things like we went grocery shopping And, you know, we worked out prices and adding up the groceries as we went.
Caryn: And, you know, if we were making a cake, for example, because the cake is just the perfect analogy because who doesn't like cake? Uh, if you're making a cake, you've got to follow a recipe, which is English. Think of all the maths that you have to do. When you're getting your ingredients and you're working at how much it costs and you're going to the shop and you're buying your ingredients and making sure you get the right quantities and all that kind of stuff.
Caryn: And then of course, once you, you've got your shopping in your trolley and you're trying to work to a budget, you might be adding up, you could go all that kind of stuff, you get to the checkout and you're having a conversation with the checkout operator or you're going through a self serve and that's learning technology as well.
Caryn: And then when you get home and you're making the cake, you need to measure out the ingredients. You need [00:29:00] to weigh the ingredients. You need to follow the recipe. You need to do all the things that you need to do to make the cake. And there is so much, there's math, English, science, there's life skills in there, there's technology in there, you name it, it ticks a lot of boxes, just making a cake.
Caryn: So we did a lot of things like that. Um, we did, um, trips to the zoo and for the, um, those doing it, you can get these activity sheets. Yeah.
Kylie: I'm sorry. I can't help myself. Now I'm going to see a tiger next time I'll be like, well, there is a probability if you bet within there that he would come through the window, sorry, continue.
Caryn: And I've got a video of him at the zoo telling me all about how the penguins change the direction underwater.
Caryn: Yeah. Mm hmm. Because he figured it out by standing and watching them. He figured it out. We went on an excursion where we had, you know, two minutes to down here in front of this enclosure and find all the information and tick the [00:30:00] boxes. We could take our time. And if we wanted to spend two hours in front of the penguins, we could spend two hours in front of the penguins.
Caryn: We could do whatever he wanted to do, follow his interests, wherever he wanted to go. And he was playing a lot of sport at the time as well, because he was really mad t baller at that point and then moved on to baseball. And so we would get to training early and we would practice spelling when we're playing catch.
Caryn: And there was just so many other ways to, um. You know, life is all about learning and that's what we were doing. And then later on, we brought in things like, um, different projects and he was doing classes on out school, which is, um, a big international, I don't know if you know out school, um, did lots of classes on there.
Caryn: Um, he had one class a few years ago, I think it might've been during lockdown,
Kylie: where
Caryn: he was the only child in the class, it was a really expensive class, [00:31:00] but he really wanted to do it. And it was all about learning. Artificial intelligence.
Kylie: And
Caryn: the guy that was running the class used to work for NASA. And the two of them had these amazing conversations about what might happen with artificial intelligence in the future.
Caryn: Cause he likes having these big conversations and he needs people to have these big conversations with. And when we were doing junior archeology, And he was learning all about, um, Aboriginal archaeology or indigenous archaeology. He was learning about Viking archaeology, all those things. He got to have these big conversations with an actual archaeologist.
Kylie: And it was just
Caryn: fantastic.
Kylie: Because actually, there's two things in my mind. First of all, the way that you're talking about approaching learning is to just immerse yourself in the world and learn [00:32:00] by in it, rather than going to an assigned box classroom that has an assigned curriculum and an assigned blah, blah, blah.
Kylie: Um, and as you said before, if you're not interested in something, you're very unlikely to be engaged and you're very unlikely to retain information. Um, and then the thing is I'm doing a program at the moment where we talk about, um, the inner child, like, you know, speaking with your inner child. And I feel like, cause I loved school.
Kylie: I was in an extension program for most of primary school. Um, I loved learning. Like I actually, I'm like a mad keen learner apart from the course, which I did not enjoy at all. But anyway. But I feel like what I'm doing now in a child wise, nourishing her was the things that were, I was going to say beaten out of me, that is not true, but, um, [00:33:00] conditioned out of me, like the childlike curiosity, playfulness, and, uh, I wonder what would happen.
Kylie: Oh, I want to do a bit of gardening now. I never like that type of thing. I feel like, cause I went, you know, 12 years of school that I did. 10 years of university, which I don't use at all. And so I didn't, like, I think I was, um, Because I was considered smart and inverted commas, I kind of associated my worth and my, the most important thing I needed to do in the world was to use my head.
Kylie: And whilst that satisfying in some way, it's not a full existence. And I feel like I'm going backwards, learning how to live through. Body mind and soul kind of thing. I know that sounds a bit woo, but that's kind of what I'm feeling.
Caryn: I can relate to that for sure, because I was only thinking about it the other day.
Caryn: And when I was at school, when I loved school too, um, but when I was at school, I was always considered [00:34:00] to be the smart one. And it was always called square. Yep. Me too. And I was very quiet. Um, but part of that was I never, I never wanted to be the center of attention. I never wanted to get in trouble. I spent a lot of my school life trying to be invisible.
Caryn: I really, really did. I didn't want to stick out or anything. And yes, I was in a lot of extracurriculars, particularly in primary school. Um, you know, I was in the choir and in a folk singing group and I played the clarinet and um, you know, I was in special maths class and I was always called on to go out and run errands for teachers because I'd had all my work done and all of that.
Caryn: But I was more concerned about not getting into trouble than anything else. And no one ever thought. That I would be create, do something creative or, um, be a graphic designer, not in a million years, no one would ever, and I didn't think that either. And I always thought that I was going to do something like be a vet or something like that.
Caryn: And it [00:35:00] wasn't until I got to high school when all the wheels fell off, as often does with neurodivergent girls and women, because we're so good at masking, and then once we get to high school, it gets a lot more difficult, especially to navigate those social things, which I really struggled with. And by the time I got to year 11, it was not going well.
Caryn: And Um, I had all these expectations on me as well, probably from within too, of doing back then it was TEE, back then doing TEE subjects and going to uni, but I had no idea what I wanted to do. And I knew that I wouldn't have the grades to be a vet, I knew I didn't want to spend another six years at uni, and then I get to year 12 and I'd actually had a casual job working, um, for KDC.
Caryn: Um, as a junior, um, like on Thursday nights and Saturday mornings, and I had a really awesome boss. She was just amazing. And she knew that I wanted to leave school. And I, at by [00:36:00] the sort of term one year 12, I was just melting down all over the place.
Kylie: And,
Caryn: um, I had applied for a job at Rockman's. Because they were looking for a full time junior and when she found out, she contacted the regional office or the state office of Katie's at the time in WA.
Caryn: And she said, I want to offer her a full time job. I don't want to lose her. I want to snap her up. And they created a position for me. Yeah, they created a position for me. And then I, then I had all those expectations. Like, well, I have to make this work then, and I ended up managing my own store by the time I was 21 and learning visual merchandising, which I loved, and I won an award for that actually.
Caryn: Um, I didn't actually, it wasn't happy. I wasn't happy, but I didn't know that until I had a car accident on my hen's night and I was going home to get ready for my hen's night and, um, I was having a really difficult time. I had employees that were twice my age.
Kylie: Yeah.
Caryn: And difficult, really difficult. [00:37:00] Do not like listening to a 21 year old.
Kylie: Mm hmm.
Caryn: And looking back, I do not have People skills course manage a team. Yes, I was very good at what I did, but um, and I would work 70, 80 hours a week, like it was insane and still get paid salary.
Caryn: And it wasn't until I was home and I had thought if I could just hit a tree, it would all go away. I wouldn't have to worry about it anymore. And someone ran out the back of me.
Kylie: Yeah.
Caryn: And I, even though it wasn't a bad accident, I did get whiplash, even though it wasn't a, a hugely terrible accident, I can still see that car that was coming in front of me and have a foot on the brake.
Caryn: I will never forget, that's burned into my brain and I pulled off the road around the corner to exchange details, managed to make it [00:38:00] home and absolutely just lost it, hysterical. And it wasn't that I had a car accident. It was that I was thinking what I was thinking before I had that car accident.
Kylie: Yeah.
Caryn: And so, um, I didn't go back to work for a few weeks because I was about to go on holiday anyway because Cliff and I were getting married.
Kylie: Yeah.
Caryn: And, um, after that, after the wedding and everything else, I'm like, I can't do this anymore. I have to figure out what I want to do. And I have such an awesome husband.
Caryn: He was like. Let's do it. Yeah. And went back and did, Oh, I went and did accounting cause I thought that's what I'm, that's what I'm going to do. Yeah. Nah. I worked out very quickly that that was not for me. So then I thought, well, I always wanted to be a vet, now I'm going to be a vet nursing. So I started an animal care course and while it was interesting, I realized actually, you know what I'm missing is being creative.
Caryn: I need to be creative and was doing a lot of crafting stuff and things like that. And I [00:39:00] picked up work doing admin and all sorts of stuff. I even worked as a, um, blepharist for a taxi company for a while. And then got made a radio operator. This is before computers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, I have some stories.
Caryn: I have some stories from that. Um, it was a very interesting job. And it wasn't until, um, you know, I'd had a few other admin jobs and all of that. And then I picked up a couple of uni courses and, um, I did one on Australian literature and Australian history and photography and all those sorts of things.
Caryn: And, and then we did a trip around Australia and. Um, then when we got back from that, I got a job, um, working for my mom actually in property management. I was running her, her little office doing all the admin and I started to do all these creative things for, um, awards nights and stuff like that. And everyone's going, Oh, you should, you should do this for a living and you know, you should really do that.
Caryn: And I started to think about it and, and it was around that time I was also [00:40:00] designing a lot of t shirts and like that. Because my dad was the head of a running club that he started when I was in grade five. And I'd been helping him along the way, helping out because I had some computer skills. And so I ended up going back to school and here I am now.
Caryn: And I never thought I'd be doing something creative. It took me a long time to get here, but all of those things I've done up till then I use to help my clients. Yep. Because I have clients that are retailers and I have clients that, you know, are more office based. I get where they're all coming from. So this is the golden
Kylie: thread.
Kylie: You actually, when you say it took me a while. Yeah. You've been graphic designing for 15 years. It took me about And a half years longer than that. And I, this is actually what I wanted to ask you. So, um, I know you have also recently been diagnosed as numerous [00:41:00] sparkly, as I say,
Kylie: even neurodivergent. I feel like it's like boring. Um, how has that been for you and does it make your attraction to the creative industries? Kind of not make more sense, but I'm interested to see how you feel your ADHD brain allows you to do the graphic design. I haven't
Caryn: thought of it that way. Um, one thing I, I do think it's mainly good at is the bigger picture things and seeing those connections between things that other people don't necessarily see.
Caryn: Um, I quite sure it's how I've managed to run a business and hope for my son and do all these other things at once and, you know, be on committees and, you know, all these all at the same time. I do think ADHD has been very good for that. Yup. Juggle, [00:42:00] juggle, juggle, juggle, juggle, juggle, juggle. And I was very worried when I was first diagnosed last year and it was suggested I go on medication.
Caryn: I was very concerned that it would affect my creativity. And the psychologist I was talking to at the time, she has ADHD herself. And she said, look, I don't want you to take this the wrong way. She said, but you've got a lot of runs on the board. And she was referring to my age. She said, you have found ways of figuring stuff out.
Caryn: You've been ADHD this whole time and you've found ways of figuring stuff out. All it's going to do is make it easier for you to do those things. She says, it will not change you. It'll just make it easier. And. I felt relieved when she said that, but I thought we'll just say, cause I hadn't started taking medication yet.
Caryn: And within about a week, I was like, Oh, I'm actually spending [00:43:00] more time focusing on the one thing at a time instead of five things at once. And I've spent less time on social media, which is great for everybody. And I found that that's why
Kylie: dopamine,
Caryn: dopamine, I was constantly jumping from one thing to the other.
Caryn: So I'd be working on something and yet, Oh, and as soon as I got to a certain point, what have you been two, three minutes? I've got to check my email and I check my work emails. I check my personal emails. I would check Facebook. I would check Instagram. I would go and check, sort of do the rounds and then I would go back or I would jump onto another project.
Caryn: I couldn't stay on the one project. Project.
Kylie: I'm
Caryn: relating to time. Drove me crazy. And when I was working on magazines, but I'd last few years because they were quite, um, they were very repetitive. Yes. And, um, So for the last few [00:44:00] years, I felt quite creatively stifled. And so I would have to watch something at the same time.
Caryn: I would have my phone under my monitor and I'd watch a movie that I'd seen before. So it didn't matter if I wasn't fully paying attention, I would have to have that going at the same time. And now I don't have to do that. I'd have to have more like a white noise or like classical music or something in the background instead.
Caryn: So I bet. That's the difference that's made.
Kylie: Yeah, I, um, I feel like I remember the first day I took medication and I rang my friend who had also just been diagnosed, but hadn't tried medication yet because it was a lot harder for her in New South Wales to get medication. Although I had been, I'd been diagnosed by a psychiatrist.
Kylie: Anyway, her pathway was a bit different, but I remember ringing her and saying, Usually in my head, there's like 58 things going on and they're all competing for attention. It's like all that noise, all that noise, all that noise. And it's all very exciting, [00:45:00] but doesn't make for an exhausting existence because I also was right.
Kylie: So perimenopause and estrogen falling, which then mean resentment anyway. And, um, I remember being on the phone to her and I'm like, I rang her as I was taking the medication and we're just talking. And then about 45 minutes later, I was like, there's actually nothing in my head speaking, and she's like, what?
Kylie: And I'm like, you know, the, all of those things that are always bouncing around in your brain, like ping pong balls. Or I always say like trying to herd mosquitoes, like it's just impossible. Very more. And she's like, I said, no, seriously, seriously. And, um, I had the same concerns that you just said, but what I've found is it is actually allowed.
Kylie: Yeah. It's allowed me to have a quieter background so that the things that come easily to me are much more potent because I [00:46:00] stay Um, engaged with them rather than going off to try and find some for me on social media or in my inbox or whatever. Um, yeah, but I definitely did go through that. Like I said before, the, you know, stages of grief where it's like, I'm angry.
Kylie: How have I gotten to 47 and no one has told me this before because you know,
Caryn: all
Kylie: that.
Caryn: Yeah. I went through that. So yeah, feeling very frustrated that, um, and what I understood it because one women are better at masking and. All that kind of stuff. And we didn't know enough, didn't know as much back then.
Caryn: So on one hand I understood why, but there was a bit of grief there is how different might my life have been if I had known before, how different would school have been if I'd known before. And something I always wanted to do, I think like, had this romanticized idea of being a uni student. And it probably is a very romanticized idea of being a uni [00:47:00] student.
Kylie: Um,
Caryn: and I actually enrolled in a uni course that starts in a few weeks. And even though it's only an eight week course, um, it's something I really want to do. And it'll be a good experience I hope. And, and I was actually really surprised to find out that they have like an accessibility program. And because I have ADHD, they're going to give me a hand, um, Like with flexibility and deadlines and stuff like that.
Caryn: And I was like, wow, that's amazing.
Kylie: That's
Caryn: really cool that, and particularly because I'm running my own business, I'm still homeschooling. Like any flexibility, that would be lovely. But yeah, I was really surprised to hear that. But really, really cool. That's being acknowledged.
Kylie: Yeah, the, um, course that I just finished is about training and assessment and we did a whole like module on, um, reasonable adjustment for differently abled people.
Kylie: And I'm here going raging ADHD [00:48:00] and I'm just learning right at the end of a one year course that there was adjustments that could be made. I probably wouldn't have done it. Oh, no. I just wanted to get through it anyway. But. It is nice to know that there is, um, awareness that, yeah, for anyone that has any differing abilities, that there is actually reasonable adjustments that can be made in learning pathways.
Kylie: And hopefully with a few, I know it's going to be a few generations, but hopefully our mainstream system will also better recognize different is that I, when you said about different learning types, like I remember, um, Our oldest daughter, I remember we took her to someone to, cause she was just really not coping in school and she was really anxious.
Kylie: And that was the first time someone said to me, get her jumping like a little, you know, trampoline and do school stuff like verbally while she's jumping. So we kind of like the throwing thing. [00:49:00] Made an enormous difference because she, like her, I was going to say her husband, she does not have one of those.
Kylie: Like my husband is a very kinesthetic learner. Like he can do anything with his hands. If you sit him down and say, you've got to read this 400 page thing, you'd be like, I'd rather stick a fork in my eye. And she is the same.
Caryn: Yeah.
Kylie: And like, I just, I don't know. I look back and go, I don't know. I wish I'd known more, but I also think, um, even like you're saying, like, I feel like diagnosis for me has allowed me to have more compassion for myself because there's a lot of things that I was making myself.
Kylie: It is just the way that I work. And I also think that I really firmly believe we can trust the timing of our lives. So I believe that. Things unfold as they should, and maybe we just weren't meant to be diagnosed until this time of our lives, but I'm very grateful to
Caryn: her. Yeah, and I can relate to that.
Caryn: Yeah, and because I'm sort of only just found out only six months ago, but I'm still [00:50:00] learning, okay, so what, how does ADHD affect me, and what's with me? Yeah. I'm still working that out. Um, but at the time I remember thinking that because, you know, we're going through a potential ADHD diagnosis for our son too.
Caryn: You know, gifted, autistic, and I think he's ADHD as well. But that still remains to be seen. And it's actually enabled me to understand, um, him a little bit better.
Kylie: Yes.
Caryn: He's, um, he's so easily distracted and, and all this and the whole dopamine thing, the whole lot. I can totally see that in him. And I've even been able to understand my dad a bit better because I'm quite sure that my dad would have been diagnosed ADHD.
Caryn: Um, he has dementia now and, um, apparently there is a link between ADHD and dementia, I believe. I'm not sure what the studies are at this point. I think it's a fairly new study. Um, I do wonder if maybe it's your brain just fanning out. All
Kylie: [00:51:00] the ping pong activity just like wrecks your neurons eventually.
Caryn: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my dad is a very smart man. Um, but he's, you know, he's had a lot of creative, a lot, a lot of careers and he's always busy. Always has her project. And so do I, I always have to have something or double things on the go.
Kylie: I
Caryn: just can't, I don't, so it's been very interesting.
Kylie: That's been the biggest thing that I've forgiven myself for finally, because I have always had a story of myself that if I could just stick to something, then I'd get somewhere in it.
Kylie: I don't know what the hell that means. And I actually counted up because my daughters, um, well, one of them's had gone through the first year. An apprenticeship. And she's left both of them. And she's like, Oh, I just can't finish anything. And I'm like, it is more silly to spend your time doing something that does not speak to you than it is to try something different and see what feels good.[00:52:00]
Kylie: And I would stand. And so then just for shits and giggles, excuse my language. Um, we counted up as I've had, and I'm up to 17. Wow. That's amazing. It's ridiculous. Because sometimes when I'm interviewing someone, like I feel like I'm like, Oh yeah, I can relate to that. Like, shut up.
Caryn: Like, just stop. I bet you've taken something from all seven to apply it in what you're doing now.
Caryn: Right. Like that's what I think is so great that I can take everything that I've done up to this point and apply it to what I do. And I, we apply it to homeschooling
Kylie: and
Caryn: even the different things my husband has done, even though he's, you know, a Boilermaker, that's what he's been for most of his life. He did have a few times that we went and did different things and we're able to use all of that life experience to give to our son.
Caryn: And the reason that he's now at IDEA, cause he started IDEA Academy beginning of this year, is [00:53:00] that, um, we can't give him much more. Right now. And he's now at a point where he needs more than what we can give him. So an idea can expose him to a lot more than we can. And, you know, our son has had, he's had what, three businesses, three businesses.
Kylie: Yes. That's crazy.
Caryn: He's 26. And then he's, he had his merch printing business for two years, um, which wound up last year. And now he's opened a Bricklink store for Lego parts. And he's relaunched his chocolate business again, um, under a new name cause it's a bit more grown up this time and all of that. He's getting some serious orders for Easter, like, oh my goodness, he tried to order the frame out on Easter that, um, that was a big one too.
Caryn: That's so cool. It's been really good. Man, it's really good chocolate. So excited. So we need to get it all out of the house. Um, cause I don't want to eat [00:54:00] it. But he's taken something from all these different experiences he's had. Yeah. And yeah, it's, It's really great that he thinks so
Kylie: good. It's like having the life smorgasbord and snacking on different things.
Kylie: So, you know, what it tastes like. And that's what I, I really realized about myself that, um, thinking about something is not. I'm not going to be telling me anything. I have to actually do it to see what it feels like. And that is often why I get out of careers. Cause I'm like, I thought that this was going to be like this, but actually the reality, like I studied forensic science.
Kylie: Cause I thought I'm going to be a detective. I'm going to be, you know, and no, I found myself. In a like pipetting in a lab coat and a fume hood by myself, like the very worst thing that you can do to a crazy extroverted ADHD person, um, is put them by themselves in silence, doing something boring and repetitive.
Kylie: And very quickly, I was like, [00:55:00] Hmm, I think I've taken a wrong turn. So
Caryn: like maybe the counting. Yeah. Yeah,
Kylie: exactly. Exactly. But like you said, it all weaves together into whatever we're meant to do. And I think that that is the beauty of snacking on the smorgasbord because you do get a sense of what you like the taste of and what you don't, what you want to spit out.
Caryn: We're alive for a lot longer now than we were, you know, a hundred years ago, so it's really good to have more than one career. Yeah.
Kylie: We don't have to stay in the same career for 50 years and get the gold watch at the end because Yeah. Couldn't think of anything more boring. Anyway, I have so enjoyed our chat.
Kylie: Thank you. Um, I know you mentioned the idea Academy, if anyone is listening and in, so it's in Perth, is that right? Or is it?
Caryn: Yeah. So they've got the, um, the big hub where they're, I guess the first place I started was in St. George's Terrace in Perth. Um, idea stands for innovation, design, entrepreneurship Academy.
Caryn: [00:56:00] And, um, they basically started, you can. Uh, 12 is what they, they have. So Year 10 is Pathways, Year 11 12 are Graduates. Um, every child there is on their own learning journey. They, they don't have classrooms, they don't have teachers. They have facilitators. They have like a learning hub. Um, and there's a hundred kids now at the first one, but they're never all there at the same time.
Caryn: Um, they're all either doing, um, paid work experience or they're at TAFE or at uni, or they're there at IDEA or they're working from home. Um, these kids are very much treated like, uh, coworkers, almost like adults. They've given a lot of autonomy and yes, they, they do expect them to behave in a certain way as well.
Caryn: Yes. Right? Yes. Um, they're given a lot of independence, but they're also given a lot of support. Particularly neurodivergent students are given a lot of support and, [00:57:00] um, idea all about, um, what do you love to do?
Kylie: Yeah. What
Caryn: are you good at? What does the world need? And what can I get paid for? And if you can get all four of those things to intersect, then you're good to go.
Caryn: What a, what a life you're going to lead. So Idea started a hub. Um, cause you know, I'm an hour south of Perth, so they actually started a hub literally 10 minutes from where we are. And I've been keeping my eye on this place for a while. I've been watching their progress since they started in 2020. And when I saw them announce they were opening a hub in the Peel region, I'm like, Oh my goodness.
Caryn: So we went. Yeah. And, um, then we went to an interview and, um, our son did not think that he was going to like going there because he doesn't like being around. He's very introverted and he doesn't, you know, want to leave the house on days. Um, it's been, we've had a very difficult year as well and he really didn't want to, um, go.[00:58:00]
Caryn: Um, but after he went to the interview and he spoke to Rebecca, one of the founders, he started to realize that, Hey, this is someone that actually gets me. Um, and they had a great conversation and it was really, really nice. And then, um, we didn't think he was going to be able to start till next year because he's only technically in year nine,
Kylie: um,
Caryn: but they allowed him to start a year early.
Caryn: And when you're doing pathways at the moment, if you're homeschooling, it's easier because you don't need to get an exemption and all this kind of stuff like for the education department. It's a bit, I don't fully understand that, but he just goes two days a week right now. There's only six kids in total at the PL1 at the moment, which is perfect for our son.
Caryn: And he's been working with other kids on coming up with a business idea and, and a pitch and all that kind of stuff. They've been doing group bonding sort of activities. Um, they've been doing a lot of stuff about mental health and wellbeing, [00:59:00] like there's a big focus on that. They have, um, mentors there.
Caryn: They have, um, people that specifically hired just to look after the kids well being. And that's just amazing. And just about every single facilitator has their own business on the side. So they know about all this stuff. Amazing.
Kylie: Oh my goodness. I want to find out because I'm like, I was actually just talking to, um, my personal trainer was sharing with me about one of his kids and, um, he was kind of talking down the disability label kind of thing.
Kylie: And I'm like, Hey, I don't know if you know, but I am like, I have raging ADHD and autism. And I really believe that actually gives me. All of these amazing skills to be able to be outside of the box and innovate and see things in a different way. And that's what we need in the world. And you could see his face kind of.
Kylie: That's actually not the box that I put that label in. And it, and I'm like, yes, this [01:00:00] is what we need. We need to break the box that says neurodivergence is some bad thing and just make it like, I say, it's not a deficit. It's, it's a difference. That's it. Like, it's not, it's not. Yeah. And
Caryn: there's definitely some that struggle with that.
Caryn: And it's, it can, it's a problem for some, but they don't have a hundred percent. I do. Um, and I will say too, that, you know, our son was very angry about being differently wired. He's been very angry for a very long time about being differently wired. He's, he blames me too, because I'm his mom, it's come from me, he reckons.
Kylie: For the
Caryn: first time, since he started an idea for the first time ever. He's not angry about being autistic and he's asking questions about being autistic and gifted. And he's asked to see his report and read through them. And he's talked to his psychologist about what's in them for the first time ever.[01:01:00]
Caryn: And that's just because he's around other kids that also think differently. And he doesn't feel like he's the only one for once in his life. And this is because he felt like that way before homeschooling.
Kylie: And
Caryn: yeah, it's just been. This year has been such an amazing transformative year so far for him and we're not even at the end of term one yet.
Caryn: Like, I can't wait to see what happens at the end of, you know, just, oh, I can't wait. I can't wait to see where he goes with those. Thank
Kylie: you so much for sharing your journey. Um, I have already, even though we haven't recorded yet and pressed stop, I've actually added the idea link to the bottom of the show notes for anyone who's listening, who wants to look into different ways of educating.
Kylie: Um, and particularly if you have a sense already that the mainstream school system is creating more stress than is healthy for your child, because [01:02:00] they are not just brains, they are human beings. Maybe
Caryn: you could include a link. For Home Education WA. Oh yes. And there's probably the equivalent in every state.
Caryn: Um, I think it's H E W A dot org. I can double check that for you though. Um, but there is the equivalent in each state. I'm sure. And every state has different rules and regulations around homeschooling. So like different expectations and all that kind of stuff. You sort of need to find all that stuff out first.
Caryn: Yeah.
Kylie: Thank you so much. I have really enjoyed getting to know more about you and more about your beautiful son and everything that you've learned. It's so good because yeah, just exposing each other to different options is so important. So thank you for sharing your story
Caryn: with me. Thank you. You're welcome.
Caryn: Thanks for having me. Bye.