Monica’s Journey: Grief, growth and the courage to start over

We share Monica’s journey from small-town roots to Nashville dreams and a tumultuous relationship that taught her to trust her gut, grieve fully, and rebuild her life with calm and clarity. A raw, honest talk about loss, love-bombing, gaslighting, and finding home in yourself.

• growing up in McAdoo and leaving for new chances
• losing a best friend to overdose and making a documentary
• coping with grief, guilt and finding closure with family stories
• Nashville hustle, creative work and a pandemic pizza startup
• choosing love and moving back to Virginia for stability
• red flags, gaslighting and isolation in a serious relationship
• the unsaved number discovery and decisive exit
• rebuilding health, self-trust and emotional boundaries
• dating with discernment and seeking emotional intelligence
• embracing uncertainty, family ties and future pivots

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Welcome to Know Your Flow Podcast, where women in Flow share what they know. I'm your host, Lauren Barton. Join me as we talk to women and hear their stories on what they know, how they've grown, and living in flow.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Hi, Monica. Hello. So we were just talking about how you grew up in a small town in Pennsylvania, yeah?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Yes, it's called McAdoo, Pennsylvania. Oh, McAdoo. Yeah, it's in um the Pocano Mountains area in the like coal region. So it's pretty much just an area of Pennsylvania where it's a bunch of little small coal towns.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Wow. So kind of like West Virginia? Yeah, actually. I feel like some small towns in West Virginia now are like kind of cool. Is that a thing? But if people do like the Poconos. The Poconos are beautiful. Yeah. I will say that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

I do love my area. There's just not too much to do there. I got a Walmart about a decade ago, so that was really exciting.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Um just a bunch of like Italian restaurants and ice cream shops. And I think that's really, yeah, that's really it.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

So do a lot of people leave? Like most people you went to high school with, did they all roll out or not really?

SPEAKER_01 1:22

I'd say it's half and half. Yeah. Honestly, I still have a lot of close friends that live there, but definitely know a lot of people that moved away. Some that moved away and ended up coming back.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

Cause I guess like family ends up being important in a lot of ways for people.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah. I feel like especially now that we're getting older, I'm seeing more people move back to be closer to their family. Um, now that they're getting married and having kids.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

So do a lot of people that live there like do end up doing drugs and shit?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

That is, yeah, there is a lot of that. Yeah. Um I actually lost one of my closest friends um to drug abuse and some mental health issues about gosh, that was I think 2018.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Yeah. I was a junior in college at Shenandoah University.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

Okay. And did she and she just stayed there? And that's what happened, or like, well, how did that all go down? Like you guys were friends in high school?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah, we were best friends in high school. She got a scholarship for basketball to Bloomsburg, Bloomsburg University. So I think freshman, sophomore year, she kind of just got into the wrong crowd. And s you know, we always have smoked weed growing up. Yeah. Um, but just got into some heavier stuff and developed some mental health stuff. And yeah, junior year, well, my junior year, she would have been a senior. She ended up dropping out. I got a phone call, I think it was in April, that she had overdosed and she ended up passing away.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

So was there any reason before that? Like, did she have like trauma or yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

So when she was, I believe, a freshman in high school, her brother committed suicide. And I believe that he had called her before it happened, and I think she might have heard the gunshot or something along those lines. I could be wrong with that, but yeah, no, she that was her best friend.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

So then you guys are friends all through that. Like how did she deal with that?

SPEAKER_01 3:15

So I actually transferred in after that happened to that school. So I didn't know her when that just happened. I only knew her after the fact, and she actually never really talked to me about him. I only found that out from our other basketball friends.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

She was always a super bubbly, bright personality.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

So she kind of acted like that didn't happen, sort of. Yeah. Like was just kind of yeah, this is like a weird because I guess too, like when you're like 15 or however old she was, like that's a lot to deal with, and you're not really like wanting, you know, if you're naturally a bubbly person, you're probably not wanting to like make that your whole thing that like this happened to you. You probably just want to like live your life and pretend that that didn't happen.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Oh, absolutely. And she's probably the most popular person in our school and our star basketball player. So I feel like pressure's there too. But we also had a strong community in our high school, it was Catholic high school, big support system, I would say, there. So there were definitely times where she would be having a rough day, and she would go sit in the chapel with our principal, Sister Byrne. Shout out to you and just talk to her.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Yeah. So did you know that she was doing that? Like 'cause what did she start doing? Like pills and stuff?

SPEAKER_01 4:30

So heroin.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Um right off the bat?

SPEAKER_01 4:33

No, that was in that didn't start till college.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Um, but I think there was some other gateway stuff that led into that. I think at one point she was living in Florida and got into some weird stuff down there and then moved back home. And heroin is so accessible in our area. Yeah. That's just kind of what happened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Yeah. She just like got addicted. But like so, did you know that that was happening?

SPEAKER_01 4:58

No. So my junior year, we kind of um I would see her every time I went home. She would come to my house for like Christmas or Thanksgiving, um, and we'd always hang out. But then when I'd go back to college, I don't, I'm not the type of person to text someone every single day. Totally. But I have a lot of friendships where you know we meet up and we just pick back up where we left off, and that was our case. Um, I did see her posting on like Snapchat and Instagram got weird.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

She just didn't look like herself and her mannerisms, like it was just off. And this was probably in December, so close to like winter break for me. And my friend Emma, who I went to college with, she came to me because her she had lost somebody in high school that she had known that had overdosed. And she's like, I just lost this friend, and was, you know, venting to me about that. And then I just had like a gut feeling to reach out to my friend Gabby. So I ended up writing her a letter and I sent it to her saying, you know, like, I don't know exactly what's going on. I know you've been through a lot. I love you, and like I just want you to get back to being you, whatever that looks like, whatever help you need, just let me know. And she, you know, messaged me back, was like, I love you so much, like I'm gonna write you back, and then she never did. And then fast forward a couple months later, wow she overdosed.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Yeah. How did her family feel about all of that?

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Like, were they super shocked by it or not really, just because I think they they well, they definitely knew more about her drug abuse than I did. So that was pretty eye-opening when I ended up talking to her, her mom, a couple months later and just found out everything that she had been through and you know, she was like seeing stuff, and everything was just very difficult for her and the family.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

So then how did you feel after that whole thing happened?

SPEAKER_01 6:49

I was a wreck. So I had just gotten an internship at the Granal Opry. So I was moving to Nashville for the summer and I had finals. Luckily, my professors were super amazing throughout all this. They essentially told me, like, do what I can. Um, I you know, I was a great student, so they weren't too concerned. So got through finals and went home for the funeral, came back to school, packed up my stuff, and I'm moved to Nashville. So didn't really didn't really deal with it, honestly, at all that summer was I was a wreck. I would just I wasn't eating much, but I was drinking a lot.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

My internship was only a couple hours a day. So during the day, you know, I'd go to my internship, and then at night me and friends and other interns, you know, we would go out and party until sunrise, essentially. Um, but those nights usually ended up with me calling one of my best friends, bawling my eyes out, and like blaming myself a ton. Yeah. I felt a lot of almost survivor's guilt. Um, I should have, I should have just went home. I should have done more type of thing. So that was really that took a toll on me.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Do you feel like you are a person who like do you feel your emotions? Like, do you like being emotional or do you feel like that's not really now I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Now I do for sure. Um What is your zodiac find again? Virgo.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

All right. Back then, definitely not. I could not deal with anything. I didn't know how to. I feel like, especially growing up in a small area, and I feel like our parents like never really dealt with like mental health stuff. So I had no idea about any of that. Yeah. So yeah, that was that summer was difficult. And then I made the decision coming back from that summer that I wanted to make a mini documentary about her and her life and what she went through, even though I didn't know everything. And that was my senior capstone project. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Yeah. I remember watching it, it was really good. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. People still bring it up to me now, which is really cool because it's something that sometimes I forget about, but it's just cool to see how it, you know, affected people. And I had um like a first responder reach out to me and say, you know, I get into like a mindset of, you know, when they're reviving someone, you know, another drug addict, that type of thing, but it it helped remind him that they are people and they have families.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Because it's a lot, yeah, you know, for everyone involved. Do you feel like that project helped you sort of grieve and go like work through it and like feel a little bit, I don't know, like feel through that a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Absolutely. And it helped give me closure in a way. So when I interviewed her mom, we just sat there and talked for like two or three hours, and she just told me everything that happened from high school until her death. And there was a lot, so much that I didn't know. And just hearing hearing her words through it, and she was there with her pretty much every day. So and her kind of assuring me that, you know, there's nothing I really there's nothing I could have done.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Do you feel like the mental health that she was using to help with her mental health, or do you think that the mental health came after using I think the drugs heightened her mental health issues for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

So she definitely had some bipolar um when we were in high school. And then the drugs just kind of skyrocketed that. So she ended up being diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder, which I had didn't really know anything about, but and is something so niche. Um, I remember when I was making the film, it took me months to find a doctor that knew anything about it really. And like my last chance, uh I was like a month out when I needed this film to be done. Um, my sister told me that her friend was doing a residency at West Virginia at their hospital in the psychiatric department, and that she may know someone. So I reached out to her, and turns out one of their doctors knew a good amount about it.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Yeah. So I ended up driving out there and interviewing him. And also throughout the process, I kept going back and forth of would Gabby want her story told, would she not?

SPEAKER_03 11:10

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Like, is this how she's yeah wants people to, you know, yeah, remember her by. But when I finished that interview with the doctor, I got in my car, and I as soon as I turned it on, and it was just like the radio. Gabby and I's song came on and started from the beginning, and I was I got chills and I just started bawling my eyes out. I'm like, okay, this is the Yeah, like we're good. Yeah, this is the reassurance that I needed.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

Because I mean, at the end of the that is a good question. Does she want to be remembered like this or like the bubbly, like, you know, healthy version or whatever that is, but that wasn't real, you know?

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

And this is like the real, and it shows, you know, the humanness of her too. It wasn't just, you know, dogging her or anything.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Oh, yeah. You know, yeah. And she was so down the earth and just such a warm person, always wanting to help people. So I definitely think that's something that she would want.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

What do you think was the lesson in that whole chapter for you in your life, if there is one, or at least like, you know, knowing her and like going through all of this and then and being young and you know, the project and all of that?

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

Um if there is one, because sometimes there's not like necessarily like a lesson, but maybe something when you think back.

Nashville Dreams and a Family Pizza Startup

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Yeah, I think for me it just helped me learn to deal with my emotions more. Lesson-wise, I now check in on my friends very frequently. Um, like a lot. Yeah. And just showing up in any way that I can for them. So then what happened after that? So then you were living in Nashville still? So um, well, I finished uh my senior year at Shenandoah University. Then I was supposed to be getting hired back to the Opry. Um, and then a couple weeks before graduation, the producers that were gonna hire me back ended up leaving the company. But I knew that I still wanted to move out there. So I was like, I'm just gonna figure it out. Yeah. Because what was your major in at Shenandoah and what were you trying to do? Yeah, uh, media and communications, and then had a minor in business and a minor in film studies. Honestly, I just wanted to be in the music industry and do anything in marketing. I love photography, videography, all that. So anything that dealt with content creation. So I moved there right after graduation, lived on a friend's couch for a couple weeks, ended up buying a house with my sister. She was living in North Carolina, but I was living there, so it was my permanent residency. So yeah, bought a house then and got a job at a mortgage company um as a marketing coordinator.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

So she was in, I think and still is the number one mortgage lender in Tennessee, like top ten in the nation. So it was a good, it was a good first job. Definitely knew I wasn't gonna be there longer than a year or much longer than a year. So the entire time that I was there, I was out networking at concerts, I would go and with my camera that I could sneak my camera into, take pictures, send them for free to the artists just to get my foot in the door. And then after about a year at the mortgage company, um, I ended up quitting and going full-time into my media stuff and a pizza business with my siblings.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

So something, yeah, like completely not.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

I mean, the media business was yeah, the media was for sure. Yeah. The pizza business was another huge learning curve that my sister and I came up with because we would I had like a 45-minute commute to work. So I would either listen to a business podcast or I would call my sister, sometimes a combination of both. She and I would bounce ideas off of each other, and then one day she called me and was like, I know what we're gonna do. I was like, What? And then she said the name of this bakery that makes a specific type of pizza in our hometown. And I was like, Oh my gosh, that's it. We're doing it. Yeah. So it was a lot of learning food science for me, learning how to use a hand mixer. Yeah. A lot like two years of trying to perfect the recipe, build the brand, and then this was all during COVID.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

Oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

What was the culture like when you were in uh Nashville? I mean, there's it's so diverse, I would say, at least compared to you know, Winchester and where I'm from. And honestly, very supportive. I remember when I was doing the pizza business, like I would have music clients come and buy pizza from me, which was really cool. What ended up happening with the pizza business? So it is now full-time in Pennsylvania. So my brother runs it full-time. So when I was in Nashville, my media stuff started to r really pick up. And I told my siblings, like, I we need to hire help because I was the only one there running it. My brother would come down for like a month or two at a time and help out, which was amazing. But then he would leave, and I was ended up moving into an apartment instead of the house. So I just it was way, way too much for me to handle on my own and do my media stuff, which was the reason that I was there. And we had trialed out um selling our pizza in Pennsylvania, I think one or two times, doing like, you know, quote unquote pop-ups, and it sold out every time we did that. So that was kind of what led to it just being up there.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

But yeah, he's he's killing it there.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Yeah. And you don't have it really anything to do with it at this point.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Um when I'm home, I help out. Yeah. Um but besides that.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

Like now. Yeah. So then what ended up happening in Nashville with the media business?

SPEAKER_01 16:30

So I ended up moving after so that was almost two years ago now, because I got into a long distance relationship with somebody that I was really close friends with since I was a freshman in college. And we went back and forth of whether or not he was gonna move down to Nashville or I was gonna move back up here to Virginia. He's a firefighter, so he was looking at transferring. But I was like, you know what, let me just try applying to a few jobs up here and see if I get anything. And I got a job within like two weeks. Okay. All right, yeah, cool. Gonna pack up my stuff, gonna move.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Cause what do you really want? Do you want to be really like successful and make money and have and be at a certain like caliber and have not like be famous, but have like a good reputation and be very like and like have that? Or do you want love and like being in love? Like, do you like being in love and then like family and stability, or do you like travel? Like, what is your thing? Like, what do you want?

SPEAKER_01 17:31

I thought when I was when I was in my younger twenties, I wanted, you know, the fame and all that. And I got a good amount of that when I was in Nashville, you know, going to the cool parties and award shows, all of that, which was really cool, but it was very tiring. And I would go and do all these cool things, and then I would go home and be alone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

And I were still drinking a lot too? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

And I had a lot of really great friends in Nashville, but it's nothing like family. Yeah. Or like friends that I've had since, you know, I was 15. It's just it's not the same feeling. And I feel like everything that I've always done, I've always wanted to bring those, you know, my family and everything up with me. So now I definitely chase not chase, but definitely want love more than anything, and to be with my family and close friends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

But I mean, like your personality and stuff and kind of like your vibe, I feel like, still is always kind of like wanting quality and wanting to work hard and wanting like that sort of thing too, right? Or yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Yeah, I don't think I'll ever stop trying to create whether it's like starting a business or yeah doing media stuff. There's never, I don't think there's ever gonna be a time where I can shut that part of my brain down. Um even this weekend, I was back home in Pennsylvania and I was like, okay, Monica, you are going to just sit on the couch and relax all day today.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

And I ended up opening up my laptop and coming up with like a business plan for a product that I have thought of. I'm like, okay, you were close. I almost got up here the whole day. Um, but that's just who I am. And I had also had a really great conversation with my closest friend over the weekend, you know, because I am dealing with so many different moving parts in my life right now of that. I feel like I have always tied my worth so closely to what I am doing career profession-wise. So trying to separate my mind from that aspect of things.

SPEAKER_03 19:34

Yeah. Cause I mean, how you, I feel like, you know, not to like don't too much off track, but I feel like you deal with change pretty well. Would you say that?

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Yeah. Yeah. I think actually from probably from losing Gabby, that you know, you just have you can't change what's happening to you necessarily. You can only control how you react to it. And that's just kind of my mindset with things. So when something doesn't necessarily go my way or how I planned, I just, you know, try to move forward from there and all my gut.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Because I feel like you do, like, no matter what it is that you're doing, going all in and like doing your best and really like, okay, well, this is the thing now. Let me like give it my all. And like, this is then this is the thing now. And like, okay, try here and like, hey, let's pivot, pivot, pivot. But do you feel like your nervous system is like dis has ever been or is like dysregulated from all of the like, hey, now we're going here, now we're doing this, yeah. Or no?

Choosing Love Over Fame: The Move Back

SPEAKER_01 20:30

I think when I was younger, it it was all over the place. I'm like, I definitely have dealt with a lot of anxiety. Like I used to get panic attacks a lot when I was in my younger 20s living in Nashville. But now I've found home in myself, which has helped a lot. So I always feel a sense of stability. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

Cool. Awesome. So anyway, so then long distance relationship. Because were you kind of like, yeah, this whole Nashville thing? Like, what made you be like, okay, this relationship is worth rolling out of Nashville?

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Um, I saw the white picket fence and all that. And I that's what I I truly wanted. And I thought that okay, I can't have this lifestyle of staying up late doing all these things, and the white picket fence. Yeah. And when I would come back here to see him, I always enjoyed it. I was like, this is nice, like the slower pace, I can do this. Like I grew up like this, I really did did enjoy it. So it wasn't too scary for me.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Yeah. To like roll out of that situation and then move on. Yeah. Because again, you do pretty well with change, I feel like. Whereas a lot of people like hold on and like don't let go. So then what ended up happening? So then you move back here, back to Winchester with Bro, and you got two jobs, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yeah. So well, we were in Manassas for the first couple of months and didn't have our own place. We were living with other people, which was a that was a huge adjustment for me because I was living on my own for the past year. So did that for a couple of months, and we had talked about getting our own apartment and went back and forth on that because we weren't paying any rent in the house we were staying at. And then we toured an apartment, we loved it, and then he was like, Okay, no, I don't I don't think we should do this. I think we should stay in the house. And I was like, Oh, okay, that's fine. And then a couple weeks later, he was like, I want to buy a house. Okay, um, okay. Uh so yeah, he kind of did all of this without asking my opinion on it, and you know, did some started house hunting a little bit here and there, got pre-approved for a mortgage, did all that, and I didn't really know what was happening. And then he eventually like brought me in because I know a lot about mortgages and real estate and all that. Yeah. I worked in it.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

So I was trying to give him some advice because he was gonna buy the house by himself. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Like his name was gonna be on the deed and he was gonna get the loan and all that stuff. Yeah. Cause what was like the dynamic of your relationship? Like, how would you have d how would you describe your relationship? Because you had been friends since freshman year, so you like kind of knew each other.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Yeah. We I knew him, I thought knew him very well. Because we have a close group of like maybe like ten friends that would do a lot of stuff together. Um and he had kind of been, I don't know if pining's the right word, but had always been interested in me, and I kind of was like, eh, he's kinda a little bit immature for me. And then we met back up at a friend's wedding, and I was like, Oh, he seems like he's matured a lot, doesn't seem to be the same person he was, so maybe I'll give it a try. And then we gave it a try and like dove right in.

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Yeah. Do you feel like because how many boyfriends have you what if yeah, how many boyfriends have you had? Like what has your like dating? Because remember when I first met you, you were dating that one dude.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

And then what happened in that? He was like wild, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Um I would say just very passionate and um I think a little bit maybe insecure. Um at that time of his life. And I knew I wanted to, that was when I was in college and I knew I wanted to m move to Nashville.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

So yeah, because you kind of acted like I don't care about this person really.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Like yes and no. Yeah. Like I feel like you were. Um I was definitely over it by the end of it.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

So you had him and then And I had lost that was the same time I had lost Gabby.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

So you're like, I don't care about your nonsense. I don't know. I was like, I can't deal with this right now.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

And he didn't really show up for me throughout that was happening.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

He was kind of like toxic, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:35

A little bit, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

Yeah, he was kind of weird. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Very like in a little strange, but has a really great heart.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

Yeah. Yeah. They all do.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Yeah, they I like to I like to do the best in every one, which is one of my problems. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

Yeah, yeah. Underneath it all. So you dated him and then anybody else, or then this guy.

Red Flags and Gaslighting Begin

SPEAKER_01 24:54

No one's super serious when I moved to Nashville because I did a lot of soul searching and told myself, like, I'm not in the headspace to be in a relationship right now. Like, I want to grow my career. So I kind of just I dated around a good amount.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Yeah. So then you started dating this guy, and it seemed like, okay, yeah. This oh, I was gonna ask, like, do you feel like you made yourself like him? A l uh because I like yeah, yeah, because I yeah, because I've been in that situation before, yeah. Only like maybe like once, where it was like a friend, and I always knew that he liked me. Uh-huh. And then like we met back up, and I was like, oh, and I, you know, I hadn't really like dated anybody. I was like, oh, this is fun and cool, but like really I like it wasn't the vibe.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

I think maybe at first, yeah, because I was so ready to be in a relationship. Um, but then I did fall for him because he now I know was love bombing me super hard, which I had which feels good. It felt really great. It felt really great for those first couple of months. Yeah, but I had no idea, I'd never experienced anything like that. None of my other exes had ever like been obsessed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

Yeah. So were you did you guys like have fun together? Like did you have like like did you do stuff together? Like what was kind of like the vibe of the relationship?

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Yeah, we we had a blast um when we were distance because it was kind of like mini vacations whenever we saw each other.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Especially with him coming to Nashville. I was like, oh now I have someone to like go do all this fun stuff with. Yeah, that's cool. Um yeah, it was it was cool. And then as soon as I moved up here, it just was it was kind of I got some had some red flags while we were long distance. Like what kind? Like him like following like other girls on Instagram and like liking their stuff. How did you see it? Oh, I would creep. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

For sure. Like girls like that are like that you knew or like just like random. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

And then because when when we were in college, like he would, I think cheated on him. Like a good amount of girls that he dated, if not all of them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

Um, but you're like, he's obsessed with me.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

So yeah, but I'm like, oh, but I'm different. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. You're like, but he wouldn't do that to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

I mean, I'm his prize after years and he's mature now.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 27:21

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Yeah. Um, yeah. Did you say anything to him about it or no? About yeah. I did. I was like, hey, like I want, you know, like this makes me uncomfortable that you're following and liking these girls, like very seductive. One was like a girl in a bathtub, like naked. So weird. And I was like, this makes me really uncomfortable and makes me wish I'm a secure person. I was like, this is making me feel insecure. Yeah. And I'm not an insecure person. Right. And he gaslit me. And said, What? Why are you looking at my stuff? Yes.

unknown 27:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Um, like, you're being like crazy. Like, why would you be looking at my stuff like that? All this. And I was like, Oh, you're right. Why am I looking? I was like, What? And then I was like, Am I being crazy? So I would talk to my friends about it. And he and I have mutual friends. So I was going to them. And then I think one of them went to him and told him that I talked to them about it. And then he's like, I don't want you talking to anyone about our relationship problems. And I was like, What? I was like, but I talk to like Yeah, these are our talents.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

And he's like, I want it to stay between us.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

But he wasn't like, Yeah, that was weird. No. Yeah. I would feel like, yeah, that's yeah, embarrassing.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Yes, there's like nothing in his mind wrong with doing that.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Or anything like along those lines, which I don't know. My mom always says, not everyone has the same heart as you. That's true. It's true.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

But I think just in general, even if you weren't in a relationship, like that's weird.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

I know.

unknown 29:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Like, what are you doing? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Like, why would you're mid to late twenties?

SPEAKER_03 29:05

And you're like liking like bathtub. That's Sally in the tub. Yeah. It's weird. So weird. Uh but anyway. So yeah. So there was those word flags. Then you moved here. Then you guys were living in the house with a bunch of other people. Then he was like, I'm trying to buy a house. So then he bought a house.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Yeah, he bought a house um in Winchester. And he let me in on a decent amount of that process, which was which was nice. Um and oh, and we had a dog together that he bought.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

That he s kind of surprised me with. And yeah, we moved into the house together. And then by that was in August, and then we were done. Done done by January. So Oh wow.

unknown 29:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

But it started to go downhill in like five months. Yeah. It started to really go downhill like beginning of October. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

So then what and because I remember, yeah, like I saw you to get your hair done. And you're like, I think that was when you guys were trying to get the like apartment in Manassas or something, or like in that area. And like you're like, yeah, cool, we're chilling. And then I think the next time you guys are broken up.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

Yeah. So what happened?

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Like what started happening? So I found out this was in maybe July before we moved into the house. There were so many things that happened that I'm like, I should have just left. Yeah. Um, but I found out when I was on a business trip in May, he had gone to like a three-hour coffee date with a coworker. Who was a female coworker? Yeah. Um, which I was I went through his his shit. Why? I had a gut feeling. Yeah. Because he was acting so weird. Like in what way? Not affectionate.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

Which was not like he wasn't trying to bone.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Which was not usual for us. Yeah. Um. So I was like, this is something, something is up. Yeah. Something's up. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

So you went through the phone and found the three hour.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

And just the way that they were talking to each other, and she was in a relationship too. So he's like, There's nothing going on with us. Like, she's in a relationship. I'm in one with you. I'm like, okay, yes, just because you guys don't do anything physical doesn't mean there's not an emotional connection there. And I and I said, you know, it this would have been different if you would have told me. Yeah. Like that's a weird thing not to tell. Yeah. And then he would try to throw it back on me and be like, when you were in Nashville, like you would go, you would be out and not tell me about it. And I was like, what?

SPEAKER_03 31:36

That's what you're talking about. Or don't we don't live together there? And also it was your job.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Yes. That yeah. He's like, you'd be out with these guys. I'm like, I'd be at a concert filming. Yeah. Yeah. They're male and female musicians. Like it's not the same. It's not the same.

SPEAKER_03 31:52

No. Yeah. Why did they have why did they hang out? Like, what was the context of them like going on a coffee date?

SPEAKER_01 31:59

I don't even know. I they just got together. Yeah. And then I started thinking, I'm like, okay, what was happening when I was in Nashville?

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Yeah. Were you going on random coffee dates with people? Yeah. Because my thought has always been about like guys and girls being friends. Is this again, this is just my opinion. But I feel like if I'm dating a guy and you've had, let's say, this a girl that you've been friends with for your whole life or something. Okay. Like fine. But no new girlfriends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Like I am your girlfriend. Unless it's like your best friend's like wife.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

Like, but then she should be there. Yeah. He should be there. Or like if you text her to say, what should I get him for his birthday or something? That's one thing. We're not being crazy girls here, but like there's literally no reason that a guy should be hanging out with a girl that is not me. Exactly. Unless, again, it's like a family friend.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

But even that, I don't know. Yeah. And I was like, I would talk to my brother about things. Um because he's super direct with me always. So I told him about that. And he's like, Monica, like if if I have off from work, I don't want to go sit and listen to a female problems for hours. I want to be on the golf course smoking a cigar.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

Like something doing a hobby, doing a or even being with other guys. Like that is way more normal. There's like no yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Well, he his only hobby was to go to the gym.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

And then I found out that he had gotten a girl's at least one girl's number at the gym. Jerem was messaging her.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Yeah.

Emotional Affairs, Control, and Isolation

SPEAKER_03 33:37

So coffee date, three-hour coffee date before you moved into the house. And then you were just like, okay, fine, whatever. Like, I'm not gonna keep argue with you about this.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Yeah. Oh, and I had found um I had to use his car for something. I can't remember. And he ended up driving mine. I think something was wrong with this tire, and I was waiting for it to get fixed and let him take my car. Um and I was I did a branding shoot for myself, and I was driving home and I was starving and like needed to eat something. So I like look was looking in his middle console for like a mint, a piece of gum, anything.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

And found a bunch of notes and pictures of him and his ex. Like a photo album, like a shit ton of notes. What? Yeah. And I calmly, because his I calmly confronted him about it. And I was like, hey, like, I'm not mad about this. I'm just a little confused.

SPEAKER_03 34:32

Um it's a little close to home. It's like right by where you're driving. Yeah. Like it's one thing if it's in like a box that you've is like tucked away in a deep closet somewhere. Yeah. But it's right there. The middle console of your vehicle.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Yeah. It's like, I'm just a little confused. Uh like, what is this doing here? And he's like, I didn't even remember that it was there. So his mom had like moved out of their house months before that. And I guess she gave them to him.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

And he put them in the middle console of his car. And I was like, why didn't you put them in the trash can that was right next to your car? Yeah. But weird.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

And then what? Did he keep them in there?

SPEAKER_01 35:19

I was like, Well, can I throw them out? Yeah. And he said, Yeah. So I threw them out.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

That is so strange. Yeah. Yeah. So then what happened?

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yeah. So then we moved into the house.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

Um and then Were you guys like arguing too a lot, or no?

SPEAKER_01 35:34

No.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

No. You're like vibing. Other than when he would do weird things.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was living in this dreamland of like everything was fine. And I had one close friend. She never really liked him because she knew how he was, and she's very protective. And she's like, I don't. She's like, Monica, I just homeboy strange. Oh yeah. She's like, I don't think he's changed. Did you stop telling her stuff? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

Yeah. Uh-huh. I stopped happy.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yeah. I stopped telling her stuff and a lot of people's stuff. I didn't really especially in that summer span. I don't think I talked to too many people about everything. Because then I started to feel stupid. Not just for staying and dealing with that, but because I had just picked up my whole life and moved it to be with him. Because everyone, all of my clients in Nashville were like, How are you leaving right now? Like, what are you doing? And I was like, I love him. Like I think it's gonna be like, you know, this is what I want. Yeah. So then fall was alright. Well, I'd gotten this award at Shenandoah, uh Yunker Achievement Award, and that was like homecoming weekend. And that weekend was weird. My dad came down, but he my ex wasn't super like supportive really throughout that. There was an award ceremony and he was there for that, but then the next day there was a parade that I was in and he went golfing with his buddies, but one of his best friends came to the parade with my dad.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

What?

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. My dad was just like, is there something going on with you guys? And I was like, I don't think so. I think we're fine.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

He's like, all right, he just like didn't come to this thing and I'm in town and it's sort of weird. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

He's like, it just seems like he's pulling away from this. And I was like, I don't know. Still trying to keep it going.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Because you're a pretty like independent chill girly. So I feel like you're kind of like, whatever. I mean, if you don't really want to come, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

Trying to play it cold, but yeah. Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Yeah. Um, which you know, I probably should have been more honest about that, but also I do now. But yeah, so then some other things went down. Like I had my best friend from Texas come to visit, and she like made like a sarcastic joke to him about I think like lifting something. I don't know, it's just something sarcastic. And he took it to heart so much and told me that she's being so mean to him that I he doesn't know why I'm friends with her, all this stuff. I'm like, what are you talking about? I was like, she was kidding. But by that point he was checked out and was just looking for any reason. And then fast forward, so like we separated a couple times because essentially he wanted to from like he would just make up situations that be like, I just think we need time apart. So I was like, okay, where am I supposed to go? Yeah. Uh we have a house together, we have a dog. I moved here. I yeah. Um, so I would either go home to my parents or I would stay at my close friends that live here in Winchester at their place. Thank goodness for them. They were so helpful throughout the whole thing. But then we ended up break actually breaking up in December. I went on a girls' trip with our college friends who all know him as well. And they kind of just looked at me and knew something was up and sat me down and like just had me tell them everything that was going on. And they gave me their opinions on it, and they're like, listen, we've known him for and have been friends with him for the same amount of time as you, and like you should we think that you need to like leave, like you deserve so much better than how you're being treated right now, and the Monica that we know would never accept this. Like, what is going on?

SPEAKER_03 39:32

Were you defensive or responsive to that?

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Combination of both. I was like, Well, he's just went through a lot in his life, you know, and he's just trying to figure it out. I think I don't think he really knows what he's doing, all this stuff. But then I was also like, What am I like? Yeah, you hear yourself right now. Yeah, we had a great girl's trip, had a lot of fun, and we were out, and my friend group we love to dance, so we were out like, you know, drinking a little bit. We were in our little dance circle, and we were in Virginia Beach, and my best friend lived there at the time. So she had her guy friends, oh no, I think they were just there. Yeah, her guy friends were there, and she like introduced us to them, and they were acting as like our bodyguards all night, like so people didn't get used to her dancing. Yeah. And then there was this one guy came up to me and was like, Oh my gosh, like you guys are so awesome. Can I get your number so we can like all hang out again? I was like, Oh, absolutely. So like I gave him my number, and then afterwards he's like, All right, so do you want to come home with me? And I was like, No. But then I was like, Oh my gosh, like what did I do? Like, I just gave him my phone number, and then I called my boyfriend at the time and told him. And he's like, Okay, like it's fine. Like, are you okay? And I was like, Yeah, I'm okay. And he's like, Okay, no worries. And then I got home and he drilled into me essentially about it and was like, I can't believe you would give out your number. And I was like, I know. I was like, I I thought he was just being friendly, like, and especially because like when I was in Nashville, like I'd give my number out all the time because that was me networking. So to me, that's just was like a normal yeah, a normal thing.

SPEAKER_03 41:03

I've been and like not that it's the same, but like, I mean, for an example, let's say that we're at like a Billy String show and we have this friend, and he's like, it's very like, oh, he loves the music too. And so like we like have a you know, Facebook Messenger group, we'll like spend time with him or whatever, but we're not it's literally strictly for that, and like just you know, it's not it's like, oh, we have this thing in common, this was really fun, yeah. Like that's it. Yeah, you know, so yeah, I don't know. I kind of know what you mean by that.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Yeah, and I didn't get any vibes that he was trying to hit on me. I thought he was just being friendly, yeah. Um, and I didn't want to be rude, like he's one of my friend's friends, so I was gonna Yeah, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

But yeah, so then he's like drilling into you about this whole thing that you're like, it's fucking over, and I called you already about this, and I was like, I couldn't care.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Yeah, and I could have bowed this person and whatever. Yeah. But yeah, and then we so we tried couples therapy. Wow. Uh-huh. Only two sessions, I think it was. I don't even remember at this point. To talk about what? How to communicate with each other better and what our like problems were. And I remember, I think it was the first session, the therapist asked what we thought our problems were or whatever, like separately, yeah. Yeah. And I was like, you know, I just there's some things that he does that I don't really agree with, all this, you know, and I said it as gently as I could. And then he's like, Okay, now you know, your turn. And the first thing that came out of his mouth was, she's manipulative. And the therapist's jaw like dropped a little bit, and mine went. Yeah. I was like, Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

Yeah. News to me.

Breaking Point: The Unsaved Number Reveal

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Yeah. I was like, that's a little harsh. Yeah. So yeah, I tried therapy, and then after that session, he's like, I don't think I like him. I don't agree with what he was saying. Right, okay. We also didn't, my ex had never done any any type of emotional exploration or try to grow at all, didn't understand like what a narcissist was, didn't understand what gaslighting was. So as the therapist was talking, he's like, I don't even know what he's saying. Yeah. I don't know what he's talking, yeah, essentially. So it was kind of useless. But yeah, so we ended up breaking up somewhere in that realm. And then so I went home for Christmas and spent that time with my family and my close friends. And on Christmas Day, my best friend's mom was in the hospital. She had ALS, she just passed away in the summer. But so I went to the hospital to be with them and see her, and that was, you know, a really emotional thing. And I wanted to go back to Winchester and spend the rest of the day with my ex because I was like, I just want a little bit of normalcy right now. So I called him and asked if I could come, and he said yeah. So we spent Christmas together.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

Cause when you guys would break up, like what would be the point of breaking up? Like, because you weren't actually like breaking up.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

You were just I honestly don't even know.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

It just felt like I was getting like drugged through the mud.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

Like over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Yeah. Like I don't really want to be with you. And then would it be like a love bomb situation again? Yes. Then it would be like, wait, no, I love you so much. I'm so sorry. Like that sort of type of shit. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Yeah. There was when I came back the one time, whatever time it was, he was bawling his eyes out, saying, I don't know why I keep hurting you. I don't know why I keep doing this. Like I do love you, like I do want this. I'm so sorry, like I'm gonna be better. Yeah. And then that would last for like a day or two.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

But yeah, and then yeah, so Christmas came back, spent with him, and then we talked about like trying to figure it out, but he wasn't positive. But why was he not positive? Like, what is his problem?

SPEAKER_03 44:28

Like, why is he the one that keeps being like, I don't I want space and I want to break up? Because was he saying like because of himself?

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Combination of it was more so because of me. What were you doing? He said he didn't like how I reacted to things when he would do something wrong. I know, I know. Like what like so if I would catch him lying about well, and we'll just use the coffee example. But when I caught him in that, he didn't like how I reacted to things that I would be upset. And then he would say, He just wanted me to sit there and calmly talk about it. But I would I can't hide I'm an emotional person. I can't hide my that I'm sad or mad, yeah, frustrated.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

Like so he wanted you to be like a zombie, chills a cucumber, and like basically let him tell you why it's not wrong.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Yeah, because he's being a first responder, he's and growing up how in the environment that he did is very good at not being emotional, very, very good at it.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

Yeah, and just being like very, yeah. So he wanted you to be like, Why did you go to coffee with her? Uh-huh. That was like not cool, and then he would have been like, But you don't get it, we were just friends, and then you would have been like, Oh, okay. Okay, and then when you didn't do that, he's like, It's your fault, and we need to break up. You overreacted, and I don't like that, and that made me mad. So we need some space. Yeah. So anyway, so the Christmas happened.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Yeah, and then so he was going back and forth of whether or not he wanted to get back together. And then in that time too, I had felt called to start going to church again. So he started coming with me. And in January, they were doing this fast. So I told him, I was like, listen, I want to try to do dry January. I'm gonna give up alcohol. And I was like, What are you gonna do? And he's like, Oh, I don't think anything. Like, I can't, like, I don't think I'm gonna do it. Like, okay. So at this point, we ended up getting back together and everything was going okay. Then I went on my cousin's bachelorette trip. My sisters were there, both my cousins, her friends, and we had a blast. I was a I didn't drink the first night, and then we were all out the second night. My sisters were like, just have like, come on, like what we don't get to all see each other. Like, just you know, have some fun with us. So I drank with them and I told him, like, I FaceTimed him while I was there, and he didn't say anything about me drinking, like, because why that'd be a weird thing to be angry about with me. And then when I got home from the trip, he wasn't home when I got home. He was out snowboarding, I think. And then when he did get home, he sat me down and told me how upset he was with me for drinking, that I broke the fast. And I was just like, I'm so sorry that you know I upset you. I didn't even know you were doing the fast. I was like, what did you what did you give up? And he told me that he was limiting his social media time to like one hour a day, and that he was giving up releasing. And I was like, What do you mean? Like he wasn't dragging off. Like, yeah. What do you what do you mean releasing? He's like, you know. Um he used the word releasing, yes. But and then also, so he apparently uh was doing this the entire month. And at this point, it's like January 20th or something, and I would try to initiate things with him and just get rejected. And I was feeling really shaky about, yeah. I'm like, gosh, like, is he just not attracted to me anymore? And yeah, no, he gave up releasing and didn't release and releasing and didn't tell me. And I was like, oh, like I really wish I really wish you would have told me like I thought this whole time.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

Yeah. I mean, we're in a relationship and like all of a sudden you have like a boundary that you've put up.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

Which I think was bullshit. I think he just made that up. Yeah, which is crazy because yeah. So at this point, he had changed all the passcodes on his stuff. Okay. Yeah. Oh, and the pipes in the house were frozen when I got back too. So I remember I was sitting on the couch. He was acting so weird, like we had gone to church together, but he insisted on like taking different cars, even though we were both going to the gym afterwards, and we both needed to shower there too, because the pipes were frozen. And then he ended up trying to leave the gym without saying bye to me. It was just being super weird. So we got home. He left the gym before me. I'd got home before him and finished my meal. This is like an hour, then goes by, and he's still not home. Like it's super weird that it would take him this long to stop at Chipotle, which is on the way home.

SPEAKER_03 48:57

Um you didn't have his location or anything. Nope. Yeah.

Leaving, Rebuilding, and Self-Trust

SPEAKER_01 49:01

I did you ever have him? I don't think he ever shared his with me. Oh, yeah. No, he never did share his with me. Yeah. Well. So I'm sitting on the couch reading this book that I got called Um Forgiving When You Can't Forget, and sitting there reading. He comes home, he's in the kitchen now with his Chipotle, eating, watching a football game on his phone. And then somebody comes to the front door and knocks, and it's like the water guy and ask for him. So he goes out to talk to him, and I get this burning feeling in my gut because I heard his phone unlocked on the counter. So I'm like, And here's your chance. I'm like, Monica, don't do it. I'm like, don't do it. You guys are working on things, and something in me was like, No, you need you need to go look at it. Yeah. So I went and opened the messages, and I just like scrolled down with my finger, and then all of a sudden I stopped it, and it was a number that was not saved as a contact. And I'm like, this is weird. So I click on it and it's paragraphs back and forth to each other. So I'm like scrolling to try to find the top of it. And when I was away on that bachelorette trip, he went on a bar crawl and met this girl. Don't know who she is. And they apparently had talked all night, and I don't know what else happened, about our relationship and all this stuff, and then had just continued to talk and send emojis, paragraphs, all that to each other. He was even texting her goodnight while he was in bed with me, all this stuff. So he gets back in the house and I have his phone in my hand. And I say, Who who is this unsaver? And he's like, I can't believe you're going through my phone again. And I said, Who I was like, Who is this number? Yeah. That's not safe that you're texting all these things to. Yeah. Had they hung out again or no? I don't know. Okay. I still don't know. Yeah, yeah. He said, It's none of your business. I said, It's none of my business. It's like we've been dating for over two years. You've known me for almost a decade. What do you mean? Like we live together, we have a dog together. I don't understand.

SPEAKER_03 51:11

I moved here to be with you because we Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Yeah. Yeah. Um and yeah, no, so I still don't know who she was, but that was like the straw for me. Glad that I think.

SPEAKER_03 51:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

But did he ever apologize? No. No. He was just I don't think he's ever apologized for any of it. No, not a single time. Because after that, I went upstairs, called my mom. I was like hyperventilating, freaking out. I'm like, he this is what happened. I was like, I don't know what to do. She told me to just get out. Yeah. So Was he begging around for you to like stay or was he acting mad? Oh, acting mad. I was like, I can't I kept saying, I was like, I cannot believe you're still doing this shit. And to me, like you've known me like do it to a random person that not your one of your closest friends for almost a decade. Actually, don't do it to anyone, not a random person. Yeah, but still, like, yeah. I kept asking him, I was like, just have enough respect for me to tell me who this is. He's like, nope, nope, nope. So then I called my brother. My brother's like, Monica, take a deep breath, calm down. We knew this was happening. Yeah. You're gonna be fine. He's like, just pack a bag and come to my apartment because he lives in Harrisburg. So that's what I did. I went up to my brother's, cried a lot, and then laughed a lot because I'm like, this has been the most ridiculous. I feel like I'm in high school again. This glorious sleep has been so all over the place. But yeah, so then lived at my parents for like a day or two, went to and stayed up my friends in Winchester for maybe I think a week while I found an apartment. And yeah, I've been there, been there ever since.

SPEAKER_03 52:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

And got a new dog. Wow.

unknown 52:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:45

So did he like text you and say, like, like, did he try to be like, hey, that really wasn't like was there any sort of like begging? No. No. No.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

No. So after the only communication we had after that was me saying, I'm coming to the house to pack. Yeah. Because everything in the house is mine, including like pots, pants, utensils, yeah. Everything besides one TV and one bed.

SPEAKER_03 53:12

So then do you think that they do you so do you know anything about like is he in a relationship with that person now or and now? No. Or is he just kicking it?

SPEAKER_01 53:20

I think just kicking it. So since all that has happened, like no no one in my friend group really talks to him anymore because everyone was like, listen, if you're gonna get in a relationship with Mon, don't fuck it up. So and then once everyone really heard, I guess more about his character.

SPEAKER_03 53:37

Why do you think that he does all that? Like, is it an insecurity thing?

SPEAKER_01 53:41

And it's like I want some I want to like keep getting people to like me or like Yeah, I think he needs to constantly feel validated from various people. And I think I did a very good job at validating him, like complimenting him and all that, but I don't think one person is ever going to be enough until he's okay with who he is as a person, which I don't know. I don't know if he'll get there. I don't know what he's been doing, if he's doing therapy or what. Probably not, maybe. Yeah, I don't know. But I mean, he did grow up in a pretty stressful environment. Yeah. I would say that wasn't his parents had a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

I mean, and that's not an excuse. Like you're in your late 20s.

SPEAKER_03 54:23

No, I know. Yeah, I know. It's because that is what happens a lot of times, and like when you're with somebody who ends up being like kind of like toxic or whatever. It is like a roller coaster, like I've been there before too, and you're like, they grew up and this happened to them, and I can see all like the pain of this, that, and the other, and that really, really sucks. And like I'm a normal, nice person, and you see glimpses of them being like normal and nice, and they do care about you, you feel like. Yeah, but it's if they hate themselves, they can't do anything for you, you know.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Yeah, and especially being I feel like we're both very empathetic people. Uh, like we just want them to be, yeah, you know, better and like they have it in them. Um, and yeah, sucks what they went through, so I want to be there for them, but can't be there for someone that doesn't want to be there for themselves.

SPEAKER_03 55:13

Yeah. It is a good lesson of that. Yeah. Like, because I feel like it applies for all people where it's kind of like you can see that people could be in a different, you know, oh, they could be this, or oh, I see the potential of this, but like you really like you can't do anything unless that person wants to do that.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

Yeah. And it is so like it's so different now. Like the people that I've dated this past year, there've been one or two crazy ones, but uh now I know. Yeah, but you know, like the person that I'm seeing currently is so emotionally intelligent and knows how to talk about his feelings and show up for me. Yeah it's just it's such a different feeling and so much more calming. Like I will never do that again. Yeah, never do that again. It's crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:59

Because I think too, so like you're like a normal, healthy person, you know, like you have your shit together, you're emotionally aware, you're doing your best, like all of those things. So like you're gonna, in theory, attract somebody who would be at the same caliber as you. And then once you do that, like you're saying, like now you're dating somebody who is like kind of like emotionally like aware and kind and stable and all of those things, you're like, Whoa, this is like what is actually supposed to be happening, and then it makes the whole other situation seem like absolutely bonkers. Like the not going to the parade thing, or the not going to or the liking people's pictures, or the getting mad about not doing dry January. When it's like you might like joke with your partner and be like, so dry January, what about that? And then you can be like, Oh, I know I didn't do it. Like, but why would they care that much? Just sit you down and like have a whole thing. Like, that's weird. Yeah. But when you're in it and they're making you feel you're a horrible person, and that really affected them somehow.

Dating Differently and Finding Calm

SPEAKER_01 56:57

Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it was definitely it was really mentally, very mentally taxing. I remember when I saw my well, when my parents came down to help me move out of the house, my mom looked at me and she's like, You don't look healthy. I was the lightest I have ever been. And I got ended up getting a personal trainer, and they're like, You need to gain weight. Yeah. It's the first time in my life I'd ever been told that.

SPEAKER_03 57:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Definitely it drains you.

SPEAKER_03 57:20

Yeah, and you're just like in fight or flight all the time because you never know if that person is gonna like be like, you know, say something crazy.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:28

Wild. And the other situation you were telling about too, the other person, like, I'm surprised that you want to date like anyone. I know. Because people are fucking weird. I know like that is crazy. Like, people are out here doing some weird stuff. Like, it's really weird.

SPEAKER_01 57:42

It's crazy. After so, I was seeing someone in was it October? I don't even know. I don't even know. My timeline's all over the place, but um, after like that had ended with that person, I was like, you know, I'm done. I was like, I'm done. I'm just gonna go back to focusing on my career and all that. And then this guy randomly appeared. And I was like, okay, maybe I'm not.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So is there anything else that you feel like you want to say about all of that situation and how like that has affected the journey? About the ex?

SPEAKER_01 58:17

Yeah. Um I would say this past year was just rebuilding me.

SPEAKER_03 58:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

Which was kind of empowering, but also messy. So, but it was nice because I'm like, okay, what pieces of myself do I want to bring back to me?

SPEAKER_03 58:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

And what's some stuff that I can move to the side?

SPEAKER_03 58:34

Because do you feel any bit, did you feel any bit of like, can I even trust myself to make decisions?

SPEAKER_01 58:39

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 58:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

Especially those first couple of months. Yeah. And still, you know, now I mean because you're in like a transition period right now, right? Yeah, yeah. I'm like, okay, so I'm really trying to sit and think with things instead of acting impulsively. But yeah, I I definitely see myself now asking opinions from people a lot. Cause I'm like, am I I don't know if I am making the right move. Yeah. Whereas old me, I just did whatever felt right. So still trying to rebuild that confidence. I actually started writing a little book about it.

SPEAKER_03 59:15

But do you feel like before you just like you knew what was right, but you weren't trusting that really?

SPEAKER_01 59:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:22

Because you kind of knew, like, okay, this is weird, but it was almost like you wanted to rationalize. Yeah. So really you always did know. It's just like actually listening. But sometimes we need to like learn the hard way to listen to ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Yeah. Yeah, that was definitely the hard way.

unknown 59:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:39

Yeah, for sure. And especially, yeah, when you're dealing with another person who is like wackadoo and making you feel nutty.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

Yeah. I yeah, I've never felt that crazy. I've never acted like that, like going through people's phones. I've never I've never done that. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_03 59:54

Yeah. I think it's weird too when you do kind of grow up in a normal household, normal. Kind of relationships around like you know, I'm saying normal, but I mean like healthy, nice, you know, people that it's kind of like unbelievable when you are dating somebody or in a relationship with somebody who is acting who is doing this type of shit. There's no way people are out here doing this. Like that's crazy to me, but like they are. So then you have to like make yourself believe it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

Oh yeah. And so all the girls that he had dated in college, he had us all convinced that they were crazy, and we're like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they do sound crazy. And then it's he made them crazy. Yeah. Even his one X that he sold the notes from, which uh girl, if you're listening right now, just she knows who I'm talking about. Yeah. But she and I did not speak to each other like mortal enemies. And then I saw her maybe a year ago at like Winefest or whatever, and we just like looked at each other, like gave each other a hug. We were just like, yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

That was weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

Yeah, we both yeah, we both fell for it. Yeah. Yeah. Which is crazy. So what's next on the journey? I don't even know. I don't know. And I think for the first time in my life, I'm totally okay with it. Yeah, because how old are you now? Twenty-eight. Twenty-eight. Oh, you're about to hit your Saturn return, too. Yeah, yeah. Cause I remember we talked about that when I was here and I think maybe a couple months ago. You're like, is it happening yet? And I was like, I don't think yet. And then my sister said the same thing to me because of all this crazy stuff that's been happening. And I was like, maybe it is. And I looked it up and it's like, Yeah, not yet. Yeah, not yet.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:33

Yeah, because your life really is a bunch of change and twists and turns. Like there's always, I feel like, something that is going on that is like shaking you up a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

Yeah, a little bit. But I always end up learning something on the other side of it. So there's some silver lining in everything.

Lessons, Support, and What’s Next

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

Which is a good way. Because a lot of people could like not be that way that you're being have that attitude about it, you know, and really be like, Whoa is me. But I feel like you do like bounce back and take everything in stride and you have a good support system and you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

I think it it helps too because like when something big does happen change-wise, like I sit there and let myself feel it for a while now. Yeah. Whereas before I would just keep going and then it would come up and bite me in the ass later on. Whereas now I just sit there, I cry, I do whatever I need to do for as long as it takes and then wipe the dirt off and get back up and keep going.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:25

Yeah. Cause how do you feel like you deal with like the fear of what's next and not knowing and all of that? Because like right now you're living in Winchester, but I mean, you're not gonna live here forever. Or maybe you are.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:37

Yeah, who knows?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:37

You know, who knows your last yeah, your last job.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:41

That's a couple months ago I wanted to move back to Nashville. Nashville, and now I'm like, uh, but I do love being close to my family and friends, and like my sister just had a baby. So here I'm only five hours, only five hours away from her. Whereas in Nashville, I'd probably be about what the road closings in Nashville, probably about maybe 10 or 11 now. Yeah. So uh I don't know. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see where the wind takes me, but I'm excited wherever it does.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:07

Because at least it gets to be like your choice of whatever you want to do, and you're not with somebody nutty and you've learned a lot along the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

Oh, yes.

unknown 1:03:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:15

A lot of stories.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:18

It's never a dull moment with me. Yeah, I mean, truly, a lot of wacky stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:22

Well, thanks for sharing.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:23

Of course. Yeah, this was so much fun. I know, right? Isn't it fun? Yeah, I feel like we talk like this when I'm just getting my hair done. So it's yeah, we just put it, we recorded it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:32

So you guys are welcome for the content. Yeah. Homeboy wasn't releasing.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:35

Yeah, welcome to my life, guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:38

All right, Monica. Thank you.