Dirt Nap City - History's Most Interesting Dead People
Dirt Nap City is the podcast about history's most interesting dead people. In each episode, Alex and Kelly dive into the life of a famous person that you have heard of, but probably don't know much about. Our stories are about actors, entrepreneurs, politicians, musicians, inventors, explorers and more! We also cover things that used to be popular but have fallen out of favor. Things like pet rocks, drive in theaters, Jolt Cola, and many other trends of yesterday make up our "dead ends". But whether we are talking about interesting historical figures or past trends, the show is funny, light-hearted, entertaining, informative and educational. You will definitely learn something new and probably have some laughs along the way. Everyone will eventually move to Dirt Nap City, so why not go ahead and meet the neighbors?
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Dirt Nap City - History's Most Interesting Dead People
Is Rock and Roll Dead? (Part 2 of 2)
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Last time we explored the elements that make up what we call "rock and roll". This week we listen to specific types of music and decide if they qualify as rock and roll or not. It's a deep question, but with all the rock stars in Dirt Nap City, we feel especially qualified to say if rock and roll is dead or not. Do you wanna rock? Then definitely check out this special episode of Dirt Nap City and help us figure out if rock is dead or if rock and roll can never die!
If you like (or hate) the songs in this episode and want to hear them in their entirety, here is a Spotify Playlist of all the songs:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/42SLNmnmmcQz9zQ97CfCcV?si=3b43b2c62c79439c&nd=1
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Dirt Nap City is the podcast about the most interesting dead people in history.
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Hello everybody, welcome to DirtNap City. I am here today with my buddy Alex, and we are venturing into something we've never done before. A two-part episode. We realized last week when we recorded the first part of this episode that there was so much to cover that we couldn't do it in one episode. So we're back again today. And while I gave a lot of opinions and thoughts, and Alex did as well last time, Alex is gonna lead this conversation because I think he has a little different take on rock and roll being alive or dead. What do you think, Alex?
SPEAKER_01I've been thinking about this for the last two weeks. I still can't decide if rock and roll is dead. I mean, last time you made some good points, we we pointed out that rock and roll is at least evolving. There's a lot of rockers that are dead. Rock and roll is evolving. But then you ended it by sho by talking about a lot of bad songs, which made me think that rock was dead.
SPEAKER_00And bad songs from good bands, like sellouts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly, which isn't even a thing anymore. Like this whole idea of selling out. That doesn't seem to be a thing. I want to ask you though, what do you think is the not your favorite, but the most rock and roll song of all time?
SPEAKER_00Uh I mean Back in Black just jumps out as as just it's got that it's got that energy, it's got that sort of anger, it's got that uh attitude. Um that would be that would be about as rock and roll as you get to me.
SPEAKER_01I've been thinking a lot about this, and I was trying to think, okay, what makes a rock song? It has to have kind of a uh uh electric guitar that has a little bit of distortion to it, it has to have a guitar solo, has to have some kind of angry dudes. Um so so again, not the best song, but the most rock and roll song of all time, I think, play clip A.
SPEAKER_00Paranoid?
SPEAKER_01This to me is the most rock and roll song of all time. Just got it all, man. Listen to Ozzy there. Four dudes just it's got that garage element that you talked about last time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it sounds very it sounds very homemade. Um, you know, it doesn't sound overproduced, it sounds very sincere, and it it was it was and at the time, nobody had heard anything like this before. So Paranoid by uh by Ozzy. That's Black Sabbath.
SPEAKER_01That's Black Sabbath. That's that that's um Black Sabbath.
SPEAKER_00That little rip is pretty is pretty universally known too.
SPEAKER_01You think so? Oh yeah. So um what song do you think that's what year do you think that song came out? Uh 74. 1970. The year I was born. Wow. That song came out. And that song is to me, I mean, it might sound like classic rock, but that is fresh. Here's the other element that we didn't talk about last time. I think to be a good rock song, it has to sound good, really loud.
SPEAKER_00That's true.
SPEAKER_01You know what I'm saying? Yeah like you don't you don't listen at a low volume while you're doing your homework to rock and music. No crank it up and rip off the knob. If it's too loud, you're too old, man. Crank it up to 11. And if I hear paranoid, I can crank that thing as far as my car radio will go, and it will be shaking my car, and I love that. That is a rock and roll song.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I agree, I agree. I so that's your most rock song ever, you think?
SPEAKER_01I think that is the most rock if some if if an alien came down and said, What is rock and roll? I would play that song, and I think they would have a good idea what rock and roll is. Where do you not the best song? It's a pretty damn good song, but that's the to me the most rock and roll song.
SPEAKER_00It's kind of like uh it's kind of like tribute by uh Tenacious D, right? Yeah, you know that song, it's it's not it's it's not the best, it's not the best song in the world, but it's a tribute to the best song in the world.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right, so what I'm gonna do here is I'm we're gonna try to find some boundaries here, right? So we we're trying to put a boundary around what rock and roll is. And last time you gave us a list of all the sub-genres, and so here we're kind of skirting outside of the boundaries and trying to figure out what rock and roll is. So I'm gonna play some clips, and you're gonna tell me if it's rock and roll, all right? Rock or not, right? Rock or not. So we'll start. Um, we'll go back to the beginning, the very beginning of rock and roll. Play clip B.
SPEAKER_03Sunday, Monday, happy days.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Sunday, Friday, happy days.
SPEAKER_00Wow. And and you know, the thing is, there would be parents that would have been annoyed by this. That would have turned that noise off! Let's look at that screaming. Uh sounds like a cat.
SPEAKER_01You can turn that off. Obviously, that's not the beginning of rock and roll. That song didn't come out until 1974. That's the happy days theme. That's uh, you know, in the first two seasons of Happy Days, they actually used Rock Around the Clock as the theme music for that show. But uh later on they wanted a more updated uh version. But I think it's such a ripoff of rock instead of one, two, three o'clock, four o'clock, rock. It's just Sunday and Monday. They just go through the days instead of the hours.
SPEAKER_00But uh it's yeah, it's like that song Friday. You remember that song Friday by uh Rebecca Black, Friday, Friday, gotta get down on Friday. All she does is go through the days of the week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's that's you you think that's rock and roll, though, right? That's the big thing. Oh, Rebecca Black is as rock as you get.
SPEAKER_01No, I don't mean fashion.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you mean happy days. Nah, nah, that's that's Scorpious Schlock. No, of course it's it's 50s rock, right? It's it's it's that it's the original, the original style of rock.
SPEAKER_01All right. Now, let's let's go back really to the beginning. Let's let's play clip C. This is Robert Johnson, Crossroads. Some say Robert Johnson sold his soul to the devil to be a good guitar player, right?
SPEAKER_00Like that guy uh who went down to Georgia.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they really do say that about Robert Johnson. That's a legend about him. And he was this is you know one of the early influences of of rock and roll. This definitely you can hear this in song in uh bands from Rolling Stones to Led's Up when you can hear the influence. Is this itself rock and roll, or is this just the first seeds of rock and roll?
SPEAKER_00I'd I'd say no, but but I'm a little hesitant to say that because I'm sure this ticks some people off, and I'm sure some people loved it, and I'm sure some people saw it as a novelty, which is all the things that rock and roll did in the 50s. But I I think this was blues. I mean, this sounds like very, very traditional blues, not blues rock, but blues. And you know what? There's no drums in this, and there's no beat to this. Um there is a rhythm. There's a rhythm.
SPEAKER_01If you speed it up, all of a sudden it's the Rolling Stones, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. But it is is it is it the river of rock, or is it a stream leading to that river, you know, as Alan Freed called the the rock and roll, you know, a bunch of streams coming together to form a genre. Um, this is the tributary of blues leading into rock and roll.
SPEAKER_01Okay. All right. This next one came out in 1977. Play D.
SPEAKER_00Yes. All right. What a great beginning of the song, right?
SPEAKER_03Just take those old records off!
SPEAKER_00It certainly had a revision uh uh revival when uh Tom Cruise danced to it in Risky Business, right?
SPEAKER_01Which was only a few years after it came out, really. Like Risky Business came out in like '85, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and you know, this whole idea of old timey. It has kind of this has kind of a boogie-woogie feel to it. Could you say with that piano? Yeah, it's funny because because I think um did you and I or somebody I was talking with about Bob Seeger recently about how he kind of just retired. Like he had he had a bunch of hits, um, he was pretty well respected, and then all of a sudden he just stopped so he could spend time with his family. I don't even know if he's still alive. Is Bob Seeger still alive?
SPEAKER_01He is, and you know, I grew up in Detroit, so I never I never knew, I still don't know. Um, he was really big in Detroit, and I don't know how big nationally he was. I I don't have any gauge for that because he was really big in Detroit. But, you know, it's funny that that song is 40 over 45 years old, and he talks about how music isn't the same as it used to be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, back then.
SPEAKER_01So this is almost 50 years ago, him lamenting how rock and give him the old stuff. He doesn't like this new stuff right anymore.
SPEAKER_00But what does he think today?
SPEAKER_01He's like, oh yeah, yeah, so I think that might this the existence of that song and the existence of a 50-year-old song saying that it's not as good as it used to be, almost and the fact that he retired um plays into the rock is dead uh argument, I believe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, and he's uh I'm looking it up right now, 78 years old.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, he still comes to I see him sometimes uh on like uh tiger games. Uh he's still he's still a big Detroiter. Nice. Alright, so in the same vein, play play E.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah. I mentioned this one earlier in the last episode.
SPEAKER_02What's the matter with the clothes on wearing? Can't you tell that your ties too white? Maybe I should buy some old tap collars. Welcome back to the age of jive. Where have you been hiding out lately, honey? You can't dress a sash until you spend a lot of money. Everybody's talking about the new sound funny, but it's still rockin' older me.
SPEAKER_01So this was, you know, 1980. I think in that song he he's he's making the argument that rock is is not dead. That um you can call it whatever you want, but it's still rock and roll.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, and I I I think I think he's also saying that you know, you don't have to spend a lot of money to be rock and roll. Rock and roll can be very uh DIY, it can be very grassroots, it doesn't have to be fancy, it doesn't have to be expensive, it doesn't have you know, he says something don't waste your money on a new set of speakers, you get more mileage from cheap pair of sneakers. You know, he's he's just saying um there there certainly are audio files, and I can be one myself at times, but you can still rock out with a little AM radio if you have to.
SPEAKER_01Ironically, Billy Joel, if we were to expand your list of bad songs, got a ton of them on that list though. Oh yeah, Uptown Girl, uh We Didn't Start the Fire. Uh We didn't start the fire. Incidentally, there's a new there's a sequel to that song that just came out by Fallout Boy that is worse than the original. And it it talks about a sequel or a cover? No, it's a sequel. It has all the things that have happened since that song came out. Talks about like George Floyd and 9-11 and it's awful. It's such a bad song.
SPEAKER_00Well, but you know, in the last episode, you were saying you wished rock stars would do more with um with social stuff.
SPEAKER_01Well, they it'd be nice if they did a good job with it and uh terrifying. Well, and they don't comment on it, they just mention that it happened.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, there you know, there's a lot of songs like that. If you remember um REM had It's the End of the World As We Know It, and I feel fine.
SPEAKER_01Which was very similar to the to We Didn't Start the Fire, actually. Yeah, just like REM song was out first though, I think. I don't know. I don't know. I think uh maybe around the same, but different people listened to it, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. No, but they had a similar vibe, just a bunch of listing a bunch of uh things that happened.
SPEAKER_01No, REM was a band that did have a lot of good social kind of um messages in their songs.
SPEAKER_00But uh funny um aside about We Didn't Start the Fire by Billy Joel is a lot of my son's uh knowledge of classic rock comes from watching The Office. Like that I think there's a there's an episode where um Dwight and and Michael are singing that or something. My son heard that and said, Dad, uh uh I know that song. It's from The Office. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Was it didn't Michael Scott also make a Bruce Springsteen mixtape where every song on it was Huey Lewis in the news? Classic. Um all right. Well, stand in this theme play F and tell me if this is rock and roll.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01It is literally rock and roll, man.
SPEAKER_00Definition, right?
SPEAKER_01Is the name of the song is rock and roll. Yeah, is that presumptuous to call the song rock and roll?
SPEAKER_00I think if you're the first one to do it, then no. You know what I mean? You're you're sticking your territory.
SPEAKER_01But it's been a long time. And this was the 70s, right? Now this if you slowed this song down, it would sound a lot a lot like that Robert Johnson song, I think.
SPEAKER_00Except for the drums, because the Robert Robert Johnson song didn't have drums. Right. I mean, listen to John Bonham, right? Just listen to the listen to the power and the speed and the precision of that drum playing. You know, that's that's that's really the lead on this song is the drums.
SPEAKER_01You talk about the hook, but I think just as important in a lot of these great songs, the beginning of the song. Like that, yeah, that Bob Seeger song, that that Bob Seeger song, that that piano, that gets you right right away. That ro rock and roll, that that that drum, like you know what song it is. The paranoid, that's that's when it the that's a hook, uh a different kind of hook, right? It hooks you in.
SPEAKER_00Same thing with Iron Man, you know, talking about uh oh yeah, you know, do do do do and then when those drums come in, did well and talk about the Europe song that you hate, you know.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it you know what song that is when it when they come out with that's true, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And and you you reach for the radio dial as quickly as you can.
SPEAKER_01All right, so now let's get out on the boundaries a little. I was just having a little fun with you with three songs that had rock and roll in the title, but let's let's now try to get on the boundaries. Let's play uh G. Tell me, is this rock and roll to you?
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, this is uh this is Queen. Oh no, this is I thought it was I thought it was Queen for a second. I thought it was another one bites of dust, but it's Michael Jackson. Right, that's a good point, though.
SPEAKER_01Very similar beginnings. Very similar. One rock song. This one, is this a rock? Is this rock and roll?
SPEAKER_00It's got a bee. It's got a hook. It's got a solo. I'd say yes. I'd say yes. It's it's definitely got a funky vibe, and it's definitely got um Yeah. I I I think it's I think it falls squarely in rock and roll.
SPEAKER_01And I think a rock band can easily cover that song. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um speaking of covers, one of our favorite covers is a cover of this song. Tell me if this is rock and roll.
SPEAKER_00Carly Simon? Oh no, why do birds suddenly appear? Uh why birds. Hold on. The carpenters.
SPEAKER_01This is maybe what you were talking about, soft rock? Is this soft rock?
SPEAKER_04You want me just like me belong to me.
SPEAKER_01Of course, one of our favorite songs together was a cover of this song.
SPEAKER_04Why do stars fall down from the sky?
SPEAKER_01From the golden shower of hits. Yeah, yeah, that's right. It was uh Circle Drugs.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So if you can do a rock cover of this pretty easily, maybe it's rock and roll.
SPEAKER_00It's well, but it is interesting because Okay, this has got little drums coming in.
SPEAKER_01This has got to get And I think she played the drums, actually. I think she was the drummer in this band.
SPEAKER_00Karen Kerr. I mean, you know, you think about songs like you know that song Magnet and Steel? Because you are Right, right. That's Yacht Rock, I think. Is that yeah, yeah. Is is is that Yacht Rock? Is is Karen Carpenter, the Carpenter's Yacht Rock? Because they were, or was it folk rock? I I definitely think based on Did that come out in the 70s?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that was like 73 or 74 or something.
SPEAKER_00I think based on the time period and based on the I I'd say it is rock. I I'd say it's rock and roll, but I wouldn't say it's rock. Like if you talk about rock music, I think of rock music as being harder. And maybe there is a difference between rock music and rock and roll. See, I would have said the opposite, probably.
SPEAKER_01Because I think of rock and roll, like the role, sh there's no role in that. Like Keith Richards would would say.
SPEAKER_00Well, so so you know, there's a term for radio stations, a type of radio station, an AOR station, which is album original rock.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Would that play on an AOR station? Probably not. No, no, it would definitely play on a yacht rock station, though. Yeah, or a soft rock station. Or or a, you know, um soft hits.
SPEAKER_01It used to have a station in Austin, Magic 95. I don't know if they have that station anymore, but that's the kind of crap that they would play on there, right? Do you think that's rock? You know, your initial thing is hell no, turn this off. This is not rock. If you said I want to rock, and that was your response, no, but I think what we're trying to demonstrate here is that with evolution of music and with you can expand this stuff out. Circle jerks did a great version of that song that I will always love. Yeah, I I don't have that here, but um, yeah, I would say that that is rock.
SPEAKER_00Well, so so the Carpenters were never known for being a rock band, right? I mean, they were a duo, they were brother and sister, right? Yeah, so but let me ask you this, then, along the same lines. Think about Motley Crue, right? If you think about glam rock, hair rock, um, early metal, uh Motley Crue falls into that, right? But what about Home Sweet Home? Right.
SPEAKER_01You mean rock ballads?
SPEAKER_00Like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, is it you know, does it have to have a lot of guitar in it to be a good rock to be a rock ballad? And is a rock ballad even a rock song still? Like if you want to read it.
SPEAKER_01Billy Joel, Billy Joel music usually doesn't have guitar in it. You know, and so you think of like scenes from an Italian restaurant, uh the the what's the song, the Billy Joel song, the um uh the themed abosom buddies, the uh um go ahead with your own live. It's called Yeah, it's somebody's song. Anthony's song.
SPEAKER_00Anthony works in the grocery store, he's saving his money for someday. So so let me ask you this. Um, because I think Billy Joel has some bona fides. Do you know the name of his first band before he was Billy Joel? No. You really don't.
SPEAKER_01I probably will when you say it.
SPEAKER_00Uh I don't know if you will or not. Google this. Put in Billy Joel Attila.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I have heard of this. And it wasn't it a rock band? Like a hard rock band.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then just look at the cover. Look at the cover of this thing. It's it's him and some other dude in a in a meat locker. Yeah. Like all all out in like nights. Yeah. It was his the the the first song was called Brain Invasion.
SPEAKER_01And that guy probably at parties, he has to like pull that out all the time. Seriously, guys. I really was in a band with really joy. John Small. Yeah, and and you know.
SPEAKER_00I guess what I'm saying though is even though even though Billy Joel, you know, is kind of classic soft rock in some cases, um he he he definitely tried to be hard early on.
SPEAKER_01Well, and he's in the rock and roll of fame, too.
SPEAKER_00You know, yeah, and and if if you think about some of the songs where um like uh what was the one about um about the girl uh and he's singing about uh oh only the good die young, right? That's a pretty rockin song.
SPEAKER_01No, I would say that Billy Joel falls into kind of the same category of Bob Seeger as being regionally very important. So if you go to New York, New Jersey area, Billy Joel is probably out um outsized for what he would be like in Texas. Like he is a bigger rock god than we might think down here. Like down here, it would be Stevie Ray Vaughn or ZZ Top. ZZ Top, right, exactly. Bruce Springsteen's, I think, the same way that he has like an oversized community. Um maybe in the min, it's like San Francisco's was into the Grateful Dead more than the rest of the country, you know. I think there's regional people that get really big, and because New York is kind of the media capital of the world, that I think Billy Joel got an outsized uh um and then he married Christy Brinkley and that whole thing. So I think he was a bigger star than um he ever imagined. Definitely made a good move by breaking up with um John Small though.
SPEAKER_00Let me ask you this then. Why was David Hasselhoff so big in Germany? Do you know the answer to that? No, I don't either.
SPEAKER_01I think that's one of those life's life's mysteries, because that's not good music either. No, no, it's really not. All right. All right, um, let's get into another genre. Um, I'm excited to play you this because um, even though I knew you when this song um was um around the time when this kind of music was come out, I've never listened to this kind of music with you. So um play uh the next one.
unknownI heard you almost.
SPEAKER_00It is the buggles. Good job. This was the first uh MTV song, right? The first video played on MTV.
SPEAKER_01And the first one I can remember where it sounded like he was they were singing through a megaphone. That's kind of an effect that a lot of people use. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like Taco or what was the guy's name that uh was it Taco? It might have been Taco, yeah. Putting on the Ritz. Putting on the Ritz, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Is this is this rock and roll?
SPEAKER_00See, I'd call this New Wave.
SPEAKER_01Like the beginning of New Wave. So does that mean it is or isn't?
SPEAKER_00Well, I did put New Wave as a subgenre of rock and roll, so yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_01All right, it's not your favorite kind of music.
SPEAKER_00Not at all. But you know, again, groundbreaking and certainly using technology, using an effect, using background singers, um, probably using a drum machine. Like I doubt that's a real drummer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think the funny part about New Wave now, it's kind of like when you go to Epcot Center. It's like you're looking at the past version of what they might look like. Right. So everybody's kind of dressed like uh like a spaceman, and they've got the like skinny glasses that look like uh, you know, a space everything die. Yeah, and they thought that because we're nearing the year 2000, everything must be futuristic. And now that we're in the future, um, it all looks very dated. Yeah, a lot of that music didn't age well, and you don't even hear anybody doing covers of those kind of songs.
SPEAKER_00That is a very earworm song, though. It definitely gets in your brain, and and and there is there are bands, cover versions, and let's let's talk about this for a second because there are cover bands that do genres. There's a band in Austin, and I think they play in Houston sometimes called the Spasmatics that do all 80s, and they probably do that song. But what do you think? Oh, I'm sure they do. What do you think about um tribute bands?
SPEAKER_01Oh, well, you know, this is one of my um curiosity. I like, I like I go down rabbit holes a lot with tribute bands. I have a fascination with cover bands, but I don't think I would ever go see one purposely. I don't like I like the idea that they exist, and I would love to watch a documentary on or make a documentary on cover bands. Um and I think but I uh don't like listening to them.
SPEAKER_00Huh. So even if they even if they play note for note and and have the look and have everything down, you wouldn't want to see them live.
SPEAKER_01Almost makes it worse. No, I I don't like the idea of that. And you know, that whole idea got its start in in Vegas, where they've had you know impersonators of um Elvis impersonators, for example, um, you know, that make good living um doing that stuff. I just don't like it. When we were in Cleveland, there was a flood cover band um playing, and it was a perfect band to be playing next door to a because it was kind of cool that they were playing it, but I wouldn't have wanted to go.
SPEAKER_00It was background-ish. Like we could sit there and talk and listen to it from our porch.
SPEAKER_01All it makes me do is wish that I was listening to the real band, you know. I don't know. What do you think about cover bands? Uh well or tribute bands.
SPEAKER_00So so you mentioned the the Pink Floyd pink Pink Floyd tribute band. Uh they were called Brit Floyd. And and uh and so I agree. It was I I kind of wish we had gone to see them. I think I actually would have enjoyed listening to them in the concert setting. Um but but like you're right, it was kind of perfect for background. But then you also think about bands that like for example, um my son likes Rush, but he will or some songs by Rush, I should say, he'll never get to see them because Neil Pearrett's passed away and they don't play as Rush anymore. So so to go see a Rush tribute band, I would do that. I would totally do that. And I think it would be fun, and I think and I think in those cases, they typically just play the hits. Like they're not trying to push a new album, they're not trying to push anything you don't want to hear, they're just yeah, they don't go deep tracks on and yeah. I mean, I mean maybe maybe one or two, but but I'll ask you this when we saw you and I uh and our friend Alfred went to see um uh in San Antonio, we went to see Primus uh Primus doing uh Farewell to King.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that was different. That's different because it was a band I thought that was cool, but if they stopped being Primus and only did that and and branded themselves uh um you know um I don't know what uh what the name of a rush cover band would be. Rush sure, sure. Um I don't think I would be down with that.
SPEAKER_00No, okay.
SPEAKER_01I'm fascinated by them. And um I like knowing that they exist, but I don't I don't like the idea of going to see them. They play a lot of those kind of groups come to the um House of Blues in Houston.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But not something you'd want even if it was your like if there is a band that did a spot-on version of the cure, you wouldn't want to go see it.
SPEAKER_01No, it it would only the only chance I would have is if it was a band that I didn't even like. No, if it was a band I liked, no way. I would never want to go see somebody trying to be somebody I really liked. No way.
SPEAKER_00You know, it's funny. Um I went to see it's been a few years now, but I went to see um cover band, you know, the bar Fido here in Austin, it's an Irish bar. Um they had a U2 cover band that played, and we went to see that, and the opening band was actually Thin Lizzie cover band. That's a real niche. Well, it's you know Irish, Irish, right? So uh and I've never been a big Thin Lizzie fan, but I really enjoyed the cover, um, the cover versions, and and and uh yeah, I I actually became a bigger Thin Lizzie fan after seeing that. Like like songs I would have turned off on the radio, now I'll listen to.
SPEAKER_01Now, one thing I do remember you saying after we saw uh Leonard Skinner is um maybe both of you guys were saying this, is that basically they've turned into a Leonard Skinner tribute band because it's they're not the same guys. Yeah, they're not the original members, and they do their they they they basically do Leonard Skinner uh tribute every night. They do songs they didn't write. Sure, sure. Um so in that respect, I guess I have seen a tribute band.
SPEAKER_00Okay, but what about what about a what about a band that uh sticks to a certain time period or genre? So for example, I mentioned uh Yachtly crew, yep. Um if all they do is well, I mean they're yeah, they're doing yacht rock, of course. Um but yeah, something like that where it's like we're just gonna do songs from the 80s. You know, like if if we went to our high school reunion and they did all songs from the 80s, they had a band that uh tribute band that just played 80 songs, would you be into that?
SPEAKER_01Uh uh maybe. I don't know. I don't know. It wouldn't, I wouldn't I would go like to I I don't think I would go on purpose to go see live music that was that I think it'd be cool if they were in the background at an event I was at or something, you know, uh like at a high school reunion or something, but I don't think I would go and like sit in my chair and just watch nothing but that. You know who the one of the original tribute bands were though, not tribute, maybe like what you're talking, where they play a genre was uh Shanana. You remember Shanana?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Shonana was big in the 70s because they were like in Greece and everything, but Shanana actually uh played a Woodstock. Wow. And they were playing, they were at the time, they were kind of like goofing ironically on the 50s, because this is the 60s, and they're like, listen to the stupid stuff that our parents used to listen to, and they dress up and they were kind of doing it as a goof on 50 by the time we saw them in the 70s, they weren't a goof anymore. Yeah, we thought they were real because we were kids, but they played at Woodstock and they actually used to open for Jimi Hendrix. Wow and like the singer for Shaunana was a really good friend of Jimmy's, and Jimmy used to help them like figure out what kind of music they were gonna play, and they were like really closely associated with Jimi Hendrix. And I never knew that about Shawn and I until recently. I was thought they were some stupid, you know, something you would see on like you know on the city. Well, didn't they have their own variety show? Yeah, exactly. Like that's they had a variety, so that makes them not so cool.
SPEAKER_00I just remember the guy doing his muscle like this, like moving his his uh Bowser. That was Bowser. Yeah. What about then what about uh along those same lines, the straight cats?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, so I like the straight cats actually. I like Brian Setzer.
SPEAKER_00Um that was very much a period genre kind of vibe, like with the way they dressed.
SPEAKER_01But a lot of those songs were original, though.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. No, but they but they were written in in I think Shauna and I had original songs just written in that 50s kind of style.
SPEAKER_01And maybe that's what it'll take for rock and roll to come back. Maybe like in 30 years, maybe somebody'll a grunge band will come out and um and like reinvent the forum or something like that.
SPEAKER_00You know, well I would I would argue if you look deep enough that exists, that there probably is a grunge band out there today that is still really into that genre, that is still doing that, that believes that you know everything's cyclical, right? So even though it's out of style now, grunge will come back. And then you look at bands like um uh there was um the Asylum Street Spankers, you know who they are? No, they were a Dallas band and they did everything in sort of a uh big band, or do you know Old Crow Medicine show? Yes. So they had like they had their big hit was Wagon Wheel, but they had a bunch of songs that were done in that sort of country um country blues rock kind of style, and they dressed that way and they played those types of instruments, but that's what you went to see. You were going to see you could, but they were original songs, so you could take your your father, your grandfather, who might have been into that kind of like bluegrass country kind of vibe, to see them, and they were doing original songs. Um we were talking earlier about the musical six, about the six wives of Henry VIII, which by the way, if you haven't listened to Henry the Eighth episode of Dirt Knap City, go check it out. Um I loved the fact that they talked about things like profile picks and and selfies, and you know, they they brought these modern elements into their songs. You know what I mean? It was like all they were supposed to be the wives of Henry VIII in the 1500s. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then they talked about their profile pick and they talked about their dating profile, and they talked about, you know, they they talked in modern lingo. So is that kind of a thing you can do where you do a certain style, but yet you add these modern elements? You know, it's kind of a mashup.
SPEAKER_01That's interesting. Speaking of old timey music, played play J. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00In the mood?
SPEAKER_01The entertainer. Right? Right. This and this actually was like a number one song in America when this the movie The Sting came out. Yeah. People were into this. Ragtime, I think, would be what you'd the genre that you'd call this.
SPEAKER_00Was that um Paul Newman?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Robert Redford? Was he in it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the Scott Joplin is the writer of this this uh music called The Entertainer. But this isn't rock and roll, right?
SPEAKER_00This is kind of a classic thing that a lot of people learn how to play on the piano.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Like heart and soul. Must be easy to learn. Yeah. Is this rock and roll?
SPEAKER_00No, this feels like a precursor. Definitely feels like a precursor. Too early. Too early to be an early influence, right? It's very difficult for something with just one instrument and no lyrics to be rock and roll.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, tell that to Ingve Malmstein. True, true. Or Randy Rhodes. Yeah, I mean, that stuff. I think if you pick up a guitar, you can shred a guitar and it can be rock and roll with no other instruments. Maybe a drum, too.
SPEAKER_00Well, if it's an electric guitar, yeah, but if it's an acoustic guitar, you might be doing bluegrass.
SPEAKER_01And I could see a rock song starting with this and then leading into something, but this is all just preamble.
SPEAKER_00Well, do you remember the um do you remember some of the um some of the remixes of um Fifth of Beethoven? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it was disco.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, was that Miko? Is that the same person that did the Star Wars uh disco?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Miko might have done like they would take orchestral music and turn it into disco music. Yeah. I think you and I talked about this one time, maybe, but I had the soundtrack for Saturday Night Fever, and they had uh take off of Night on Bald Mountain, which I think is a famous composition, and it was Night on Disco Mountain.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Ed Vol Ludwig. Yeah, yeah, it's good stuff. All right, play K.
SPEAKER_00Alright, definitely new wave. Hold on. Uh dead or alive. Dead or alive, that's uh here's the thing. I always I had a much harder time with this type of music when I was younger because it seemed very artificial and synthesized. Like it doesn't I don't think there's any real instruments in this. Right.
SPEAKER_01It's all pre-record of rock and roll, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. But it has a beat.
SPEAKER_01It has But what would craft work say about that? Yeah, true. Were they an early influence of Dead or Alive?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, if Craft Work was an early influence, they've got to be an early influence of some kind of music that they affected, and maybe that's Dead or Alive.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Uh well definitely.
SPEAKER_01I don't think that music has aged well though. I don't think there's people doing covers of of that song, and maybe it's getting a comeback. I mean, I give I like the song.
SPEAKER_00Well, part of the problem too was my sister and I had our own lanes for music. So like she loved Duran Duran. I know you like Duran Duran. I was not a fan. You didn't like them? I was not a fan, and I didn't consider that I considered them kind of just wimpy. You know, it's not the word I actually would use, but but that's the word I'll use on this podcast is wimpy. And and and not even wimpy like like the Carpenters, what you played earlier um close to you, that song is wimpy, but it owns it. I felt like I felt like some of that dancy new wavy British invasion or you know, Brit later British invasion, 80s British invasion, new wave stuff was uh wimpy, but didn't think didn't realize it was wimpy. And that's what bothered me. Okay. All right. Speaking of wimpy, play L. Okay. The Sugar Hill gang. Pretty good beginning, right?
SPEAKER_01Uh oh. Now we get the disco strings. Yeah. This is rock and roll, Kelly.
SPEAKER_00Wait, this is Mandalo, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's a bad version of Latin music.
SPEAKER_00But maybe it was like it was approachable by old white people. Right.
SPEAKER_01That's what it was trying to do, I'm sure. Has kind of a love boat uh vibe to it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, definitely. Yeah. But it was a huge hit.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, Barry Manilo probably could have retired just on this song. I know. All right. Oh no. That's not rock and roll.
SPEAKER_01No, it's I think you'd really have to expand the definition of rock and roll to include that song.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it just, it just, it very much smacks of your parents' music, which literally my parents' music for sure.
SPEAKER_01At least my mom's. Uh play M.
SPEAKER_00Islands in the stream? Yeah. Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers. You got it, man.
SPEAKER_01Now, this is one of those songs bad song. Probably, right? Um I kind of like this song. It's this isn't rock and roll or country.
SPEAKER_00No, it's pretty much the hell is this pop. Is it is it pop? It's pop with two country artists. See, that's the thing is if you didn't have Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers, who are traditionally country artists, you wouldn't even the word country wouldn't even enter into your into your thought about it, right? It's just because of who they are. But this is 100% pop.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. This isn't a lot different than like a line of Richie's son, probably, right? This is probably yacht rock, right? If it's rock. Yeah, some rock. Shut this up, please. Oh no, I love it. All right, so so play N then. Okay, here comes N. Speaking of Wimpy. We haven't yeah, we haven't talked about jazz. Um this is what you'd call smooth jazz, which a lot of jazz people do not own. Like they hate the idea of smooth jazz.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Smooth jazz is like musak, elevator music, whole uh hold music. When you're on hold. It's like a really satisfying dump. But this guy is the king of this kind of music. Kenny G. Yeah. Name of the song is Songbird. This was a really big hit. This is not rock and roll, is it, Kelly?
SPEAKER_00So remember I was talking about working for a guy who liked Huey Lewis before. Yeah. And how he would play uh a couple days off and uh Kip to be square. He also thought that every event that we produced, because that's what we did, we produced events, had to have this kind of music playing for walk-in. This was our and he called it jazzy jazz. He said, play some jazzy jazz for walk-in. And every once in a while we try to play something outside of this. No, no, no, go back to jazzy jazz. So I got to know the the the Kenny G's of the world back then. It was awful. Oh, it's just, it's just Would you rather listen to that for an hour or Kenny Dolly Rogers, Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers?
SPEAKER_01Or Michael Bolton's another one in that kind of in that group that uh I just would rather listen to the um Dolly Rogers than that. Because that at least has words and it's going somewhere. And I I like I like some Dolly Parton songs and I like some Kenny Rogers songs. I don't think I like any Kenny G songs. Okay. That song reminds me of every other bad Kenny G song.
SPEAKER_00But you just talked about you talked about earlier like a background, something just playing in the background at something. Would that bother you? If you were at a if you were at a fancy restaurant for brunch, you were at a brunch, and that was playing.
SPEAKER_01No, but didn't I also say that the rock and roll has to be cranked up to 11? I wouldn't turn that song beyond two.
SPEAKER_00I'm not talking about rock and roll. I'm talking about just background, just like music. Like, like, do you prefer music? Do you prefer to have music playing in the background? Let me ask you this. If you're driving in the car with someone, and you know, whether it's somebody you know really well or you don't, do you have the radio on at a low volume, like just in the background, or do you just leave it off?
SPEAKER_01Oh, always on. Always on.
SPEAKER_00And and would Kenny G, if that was on, would that be better than nothing?
SPEAKER_01I let me tell you, when I'm in the car, and my wife could attest to this, and let's say I'm I'm in the car and we just have music on in the background. If Maroon 5 comes on, I will drive into a ditch trying to turn it off. Like, but I don't turn it off, I change the channel. You know what I'm saying? Like, so I like literally I've almost gotten an accidents. She's like, Can you just wait until I'm like, nope, I can't. Like, as soon as I hear that, whatever the beginning of that song is, there's bands like Maroon 5, like Train, yeah, there's another one. Um Matchbox 20, uh Three Doors Down, any of that kind of whatever that genre is.
SPEAKER_00That'sonic.
SPEAKER_01Closing time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Time for you to go.
SPEAKER_00Semi semi-sonic. Semi-sonic, that's it.
SPEAKER_01Uh, it if I hear that kind of music, I will put myself in danger to turn the channel. So it's really to answer your question, it's really important. Whatever's in the background is really important to me. And I have to change it. If it now, I don't change channels a lot. Like I like, I'll stay on a channel for a long time until they violate my trust.
SPEAKER_00What's your what's your go-to radio station in Houston?
SPEAKER_01I listen to satellite radio when I listen to radio.
SPEAKER_00What's your go-to? Is it um Sirius? Yeah. What's your what's your go-to? Is it the 90s Sirius XM channel?
SPEAKER_01No, I hate that station. No, I listen to the the um 70s uh channel a lot, um, just because it reminds me of my uh childhood. But I I I listen to lots of lots of different channels on that.
SPEAKER_00Huh. Do you have an all-time favorite song, or do you have a like like one or two songs that you can listen to? Like, you know, there's a lot of songs that that that you get tired of, or that, like you said, don't age well, and you hear them years later and you're like, eh, I don't know what I saw in this. Um I could say, for example, pretty much any rush song that I liked when I was in eighth grade or ninth grade, I still like today. I can still hear it and turn it up and be really in.
SPEAKER_01That's how I feel about Black Sabbath. That's how I feel about Queen. Uh in fact, a lot of that classic rock, I I don't think I ever, if if you asked me this when I was 14 or 15, I would have never predicted I would be listening to classic rock. I would have thought that my taste had evolved from that. Because I was listening to New Wave and alternative stuff then, and that was stuff that I listened to before, but I came back to it, and it's just good. It it I'm sure it has to do with memories, but that's just, you know, you listen to that stuff, an old Who song comes on, and it's just better than listening to a dead or alive song these days, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It's the difference between a hit and a great song, right? A great better.
SPEAKER_01I think that kind of music is aged better.
SPEAKER_00It's like cheese.
SPEAKER_01Hmm, maybe. Or wine. Um play don't forget about O. Play play P. Alright. You know what song this is?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's the way I like it. Casey and the Funny Band. It's the right band with the wrong song. Oh. Uh do it. Wow. Uh do a little dance, make a little love. No. Yeah, do a little dance, make a little love, get down the night. Uh shake, take, take your booty. Oh my god, they all all of them like could start the same way.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00This is disco. This is firmly in the world of discount.
SPEAKER_01It's not rock and roll.
SPEAKER_00No, no, because because I think disco, I think disco was definitely its own thing. It's not a subgenre of rock. Maybe it evolved, but it it is. Remember, we talked about Alan Freed saying that rock and roll was a river. It is definitely like taking its own path, and those waters don't cross.
SPEAKER_01I think you're right. I think you're right. And uh I think I I think it was um might have been Keith Richards that talked about genres, and he was saying how a genre has to have clothes to go with it. In order to be considered a genre, you have to have an outfit to wear with it. So like disco had an outfit, that's why it got its own subgroup, and grunge had an outfit, like a uniform, you know, they to go with it. And I I don't really disagree with that, and I think that's why some of these some of these genres just turn out to be uniforms and nothing more. And that's why disco lasted maybe five or six years, grunge lasted maybe you said like eight years or so, and then they just kind of come and go, right? Some of these turn out to be nothing more than just outfits, and others have more uh staying power. By the way, the full version the that that song does what I like that some songs with the parentheses, so that's parentheses shake, shake, shake, end parentheses, shake your booty.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. Uh and and you know what would make it more modern is if um if uh shake was spelled without an E. You know, like if they misspelled it, like a like a tech company.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, or what with the long A sign over.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, shake your booty. Yeah, um, yeah, I mean, do you remember there was a whole movement around disco sucks, right? And there were Detroit, there were there were there were stickers, there was um but I I I could certainly, you know, I respect the BGs, I could get into some of their stuff, I could listen to it, I could listen to, you know, you're not gonna go to a wedding and not dance to Casey and the Sunshine band, right? I think it's within the case. It's gonna get everybody up dancing.
SPEAKER_01I think time tells you whether or not something was legit or not, you know. Um and then um play uh S. This will be our last one. All right.
SPEAKER_00I have no idea what this is. Is this rock and roll?
SPEAKER_01Is that your question? Is this rock and roll? This is gotta be rock and roll, man. Are you kidding me?
SPEAKER_03Then I drove my love and put it in the dirt.
SPEAKER_00I have a hard time with that. I have a hard time with that.
SPEAKER_01This is rock and roll. You could crank this up. True. They're talking about the same stuff that uh Robert Johnson was talking about back in the day.
SPEAKER_00Has a beat.
SPEAKER_01I found a song from the 30s called Funky Butt from the 1930s when he was talking about the funky butt and the stinky butt and all that. I think he was. It's got your drums in it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, they're not real drums, but yeah. Um I think I think funky butt was probably like it was something else. Or or in addition to funky butt. However, however. No, uh, I I that's rock and roll. So, so you know, we didn't really get too much into the crossover between rap, RB, hip-hop. Uh would you call that hip-hop? Sure. That's not a very enthusiastic or uh Yeah, I mean, there's subgenres of hip-hop too, right?
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00But you're saying generally speaking, yes, hip-hop is rock and roll.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think I think the theme of what you've been saying for these two episodes is that rock and and I agree with you, by the way, that rock and roll has just evolved. And it might not be Bill Haley in the comments, but it might be bubble butt. And and this stuff, some of it's good, some of it's bad, some of it you care for, some of you don't. But in order I mean, I think rock and roll is everything from the carpenters to major laser, which you just heard.
SPEAKER_00Oh, is that who that is? Yeah, I I've actually always I've heard the name, but I've never actually heard a major laser song.
SPEAKER_01It was Major Lager featuring Bruno Mars, Two Chains, Tyga, and Mystic. Wow, it's like an all-star. But I think, I really think, and I think that whatever preconceptions you and I had going into Cleveland about what rock and roll was, I think once you go to the Hall of Fame, you realize how expansive rock and roll is and how expansive it has to be. If it was just about white guys playing guitar, it would have had a definite beginning and ending, and you would go and it would you go to a museum, and this is what rock and roll was. And if you want to have that definition, that's fine, I suppose. It's a pretty narrow, kind of a classic rock definition. But if you expand the rock and roll definition to include the Carpenters and Bubble Butt and Kenny Rogers, it just seems like a richer world. And then what's not Kenny G not Kenny G, please. Um I think that you can have festivals that include both all those kinds of music. I mean, they do a music festival, exactly. They have acts like Lizzo, but they'll also have acts like Wilco there, right?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I think I think this weekend, I think that uh the Foo Fighters and uh Travis Scott are both playing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think I think what's cool when you watch like the inductions of of these things, or when you go to a rock festival, it's cool to see some of these acts interact with each other, you know. Tom Morello is a rock fan, but he also likes hip hop and he appreciates good guitar playing, but he also appreciates good lyric. And I think it's cool when you see like uh last year, uh Judas Priest gave a standing ovation to Lionel Ritchie, you know, at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction. And I think it was genuine, you know. I think that these good artists appreciate one another, and that it's all music to them, and it's all rock and roll to them, as Billy Joel would say.
SPEAKER_00Well, so so that's a great way for us to um kind of wrap things up if you're ready to do that. And and that is the rock and roll hall of fame and how that works. Because until I went, I didn't understand that there were classes. I didn't understand also that the the number of artists actually inducted is pretty small compared to the number of artists there are, of course, but but it's really maybe a thousand artists or a couple of hundred that have ever been inducted, and it's what five to ten per year, maybe that that go in for all different genres, too. Right, right, but total, like like it's five to ten artists that get inducted. So, so how does that work? Because because uh we've got the induction coming up for 2023 pretty soon, right?
SPEAKER_01November 3rd. And in fact, this year for the first time, they're broadcast. Usually they broadcast it a few weeks later on HBO. This year they're broadcasting it live on Disney Plus. Um, so you can watch it's a concert. Um, it's not in Cleveland, usually, it's usually at Madison Square Garden uh in New York. Um, and it's uh it's a variety of people. It's Kate Bush, Cheryl Crow, Missy Elliott, George Michael, Willie Nelson, Rage Against the Machine, The Spinners, DJ Cool Herc, Link Ray, Shaka Khan, Al Cooper, Bernie Toppin, and Don Cornelius. So as varied as we've been talking about, you can watch, and if if if the acts are alive, usually they'll come and they'll perform. If they're not still alive, um, somebody'll do like so. I'm sure with George when they do George Michaels, uh, they'll have probably a bunch of different acts from different genres come up and do George Michael songs. It's usually a pretty fun show.
SPEAKER_00George Michael dead?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. He died, uh, I think he died in 2020. Wow. Um, but huge, huge contribution. I think Willie Nelson is somebody who's been around for so long that I'm guessing that he'll do songs, but other people will come up and join him too, people that he's influenced. It also usually somebody comes up and in and introduces, so it'll be like a band, like uh, for example, when REM got inducted, Pearl Jam came up and inducted them and talk about what they meant to them. So it's kind of nice seeing the I think the thing that I like the most about it is the influence is seeing the generations that sometimes you wouldn't necessarily draw a straight line between REM and Pearl Jam. But then when you hear Eddie Vetter talk about how influential they were, you start to listen to Pearl Jam in a different way. And you go, Oh, yeah, I could definitely kind of see what he was talking about. It makes you appreciate that band more. Um, so I it's one of my favorite things every year to kind of watch. Um one of the things we were talking about when we were there are who isn't in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that maybe should be. Um, you know, um, you know, I think you you uh and they give you an opportunity to kind of put bands in uh kiosk, and you can you can put bands in. Do you want to tell everyone who you put?
SPEAKER_00Uh I think I put Super Chunk in.
SPEAKER_01You did. Uh do you really believe the Super Chunk should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. They've been going since the mid-80s, it's like 83, and they're still together, and they've got a huge catalog of rock and roll, punk rock, and poppy kind of music, and I love it. And I just saw them. I've probably they're probably one of the bands in the last 10 years I've seen maybe four times in the last 10 years, and they're still playing.
SPEAKER_01I wrote down a couple of bands that I think should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I think the Smiths should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I think uh New Order or Joy Division, that kind of that that group that kind of one became the other. Uh, I think maybe Sonic Youth or the replacements are are having big enough influence that they should maybe be in there. Uh Beck, I don't think, is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and probably has been around long enough to where maybe he should be considered consideration. Um, and then like grunge, there's there's it's probably the time for some of these grunge bands to get in. I think uh Pearl Jam's the only one that I can think of that's really in there, but maybe Soundgarden or Smashing Pumpkins, I don't know if you consider that grunge or not, but they definitely had a maybe they weren't around long enough. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, don't they have to be around for 20 years, like from their first first album or first whatever?
SPEAKER_01I think Outcast and going for hip hop, I think Outcast and maybe Tribe Called Quest. Uh De La Soul probably wasn't out long enough, but they had a big influence on a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00So actually, funny enough, De La Soul, um uh one of their members just died, um, as did one of the members of Tribe Called Quest, Fife Dog. I'm trying to remember, I was if it's Troy True Goy from De La Soul that died. But regardless, De La Soul had a big problem with their record label for years and years, and just within the last six months have been able to actually release their back catalog on Spotify, Apple Music, et cetera. So they were actually not making money off of it, um, but they're pretty active right now in terms of promoting it, selling merchandise. I think they actually are coming out with something new. Um, but yeah, one of their members died right around the time that they were able to release on these streaming services. And it is really interesting because back in the day, if you wanted to listen to a new artist, you had to go to the record store or you had to order the record, you know, the cassette, the eight-track, whatever it was, the CD. And now you can literally, if you wanted to just check out, if I wanted to actually check out Major Laser, you know, now that you've uh introduced me to them. I bet you don't. I can just go on and just type it in. You remember the song I I played for you that that I think was right up your alley was Mr. Dobelina. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mr. Dobelina, Mr. Bob Dobelina. Yeah. I like that song. But it's just it's fun. It's just something that you can just throw on and listen to, but you don't have to make the commitment of buying the album. I guess it's a trade-off, right? We talked a little bit last time about records and the tangible feeling of holding a record, putting it on, listening to it for the first time, reading looking at the pictures, reading the liner notes. That was all great, but there was a barrier to entry in order to get the record and get started. Oh, yeah, it was a commitment, yeah, for sure. Today, the barrier to entry is nothing. It's just type it into a search engine and find it somewhere and listen to it, you know.
SPEAKER_01And so on the other hand, that backfires because now you might listen to seven seconds of a song because it doesn't cost you anything. Seven seconds and seven seconds and decide you don't like it and you don't get a chance to really get into somebody's catalog and get, you know, I mean, that there's a there's a trade-off there.
SPEAKER_00You know what's you know, what's interesting about that? I have a little technique for that. If I'm trying to uh listen to a new band, and that is typically I'll just go on to Spotify, which is what I use, and I will look for their most popular song, and I'll listen to that, and then I'll go way down in their list and listen to that, like one of their least popular songs that is still on Spotify because Spotify will rank them based on the number of plays they got that month or overall. And so it's interesting to hear what people really like. So again, using dire straits as an example, if you only listen to Money for Nothing and that was your impression, you'd get one impression of them. But if you listen to something like uh Wild West End, which is a very deep, deep track from an early album, that's a totally different vibe, but you'd have to dig down and define that. So you're right, you can't just listen to 10 seconds or seven seconds of the first song that plays and make a judgment about the band. You have to invest in it and do a little bit of homework. Definitely, and you know, rock and roll is all about homework.
SPEAKER_01I think rock and roll will never die, Kelly. Because it's not a type of music, it's a state of being.
SPEAKER_00It'll never die as as long as Earth is still around, and that might not last that long.
SPEAKER_01I think the state of being that we're talking about, though, is the state of being young. It's an ad. It reminds you of being young. I think young people listen to it, and whatever young people are listening to, I think by definition is rock and roll. So that's that's what I've decided. Rock and roll will never die.
SPEAKER_00So if young people aren't listening to uh Led Zeppelin or ACDC or um who who did you play earlier, um Ozzie Osbourne.
SPEAKER_01Um Yeah, they're not.
SPEAKER_00What is that band? Black Sabbath? Black Sabbath. Or Black Sabbath. If they're not listening to that, then is it no longer rock and roll? No, it's whatever little baby is rock and roll. So what we considered rock and roll isn't rock and roll anymore. It is to us. But it isn't too.
SPEAKER_01Whatever whatever young people are listening to is rock and roll, but whatever rock and roll was to us, it's still rock and roll to us.
SPEAKER_00So you kind of develop your definition of rock and roll at a young age, I think so. And then you keep it your whole life.
SPEAKER_01And I think if we stick with that definition, the rock and roll hall of fame we can live on. If, however, we say rock and roll has to be four-wide guys with a guitar, a bass, a drum, and it has to have a guitar solo in the middle, and it has to be crunchy, and it can't be popular, and it has to be done out of a garage that would be a minor threat. Exactly. And they like purposely have have uh screwed themselves over, right? By trying to not be popular all these years, right? Don't accidentally make a good song to be their model, right? Yeah, yeah, because then you're a fellow. Exactly. Well, there you go. So I think that's my definition. It grows up with you. Whatever you're listening to, it grows with you. When the people listening to Lil' Baby Today are our age, they will claim that that's rock and roll. And um the people of their kids will claim that that's old people's music.
SPEAKER_00They'll have something new to annoy the old people.
SPEAKER_01My son thinks that Jay-Z is old people's music. Alright, man. Well, I really enjoy talking music with you, talking rock and roll with you. This has been fun the last couple weeks. Next time we'll get back to uh talking about uh dead people that didn't play rock and roll, or maybe they uh maybe they did.
SPEAKER_00Maybe they did, yeah. There might be a whole new thing going on here. Alex, thank you for thank you for uh spearheading this and for putting up with all my all my opinions. And um I I certainly feel like I learned a lot. And if you get a chance to check out the rock and roll Hall of Fame, honestly, whether you watch it live or not, some of those performances, if you like music and you like that cross-pollination between different genres and different artists, I was blown away. I have to say, watching some of those videos with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame scene, Prince and Tom Petty and George Harrison's son, and just all these people together that that you wouldn't expect to be up on stage together, that was pretty mind-blowing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's awesome. So November 3rd, Disney Plus. Uh they might play it later on HBO. I don't know what their plan is, but um check it out.
SPEAKER_00Rock and roll, baby. Bye.
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