Notes on Resilience
Conversations about trauma, resilience, and compassion.
How do we genuinely support individuals who have experienced trauma and build inclusive and safe environments? Trauma significantly affects the mental and physical health of those who experience it, and personal resiliency is only part of the solution. The rest lies in addressing organizational, systemic, and social determinants of health and wellness, and making the effort to genuinely understand the impact of trauma.
Here, we ask and answer the tough questions about how wellness is framed in an organizational context, what supports are available and why, what the barriers are to supporting trauma survivors, and what best practices contribute to mental wellness. These conversations provide a framework to identify areas for change and actionable steps to reshape organizations to be truly trauma sensitive.
Notes on Resilience
98: Technology and Well-Being: Maintaining Human Connections in a Digital Age, with Scott Grates
Ever wonder how to maintain genuine human connections in our digital age?
Join us as we unpack this with Scott Grates, a versatile author, podcaster, entrepreneur, and coach, who brings a wealth of knowledge on nurturing trust and personal connections in business and life. Together, we explore the timeless value of H2H (human-to-human) interactions and discuss the powerful role of authentic personal relationships that businesses fundamentally thrive on.
We also talk about intentional relationship-building and how technology should complement, not replace, these personal interactions, even as digital communication becomes increasingly prevalent. Scott shares strategies for consistently showing up for the right people at the right times, underscoring the impact of small gestures like handwritten notes.
Balancing work and personal life in a tech-driven world is no small feat. We address the evolution of professional relationships, the psychological impacts of virtual versus in-person interactions, and strategies for maintaining a healthy work-life balance. From setting boundaries through "isolation blocks" for focused work to empowering resilient leadership amid digital distractions, Scott offers actionable insights for fostering well-being and empowering teams to thrive.
Tune in to gain a fresh perspective on preserving the human touch in an era defined by digital connectivity.
Scott Grates is a USA Today national best-selling author, podcast host, TEDx speaker, entrepreneur, and sought-after consultant for small business owners. As the leader of multiple thriving businesses that started from zero—and now generate millions of dollars annually, Scott understands the challenges faced by small business owners in their relentless pursuit of success against corporate behemoths. Scott is on a mission to arm entrepreneurs with the transformative power of relationship optimization in their communities. Scott teaches the Infinite Referral Advantage system in his most recent book, Referrals Done Right. As a father of three children, Scott also has a lifelong passion for bringing real-world knowledge to students prior to graduation so they are better prepared for their careers after the classroom.
You can learn more about Scott on his website or on LinkedIn, Instagram, or Facebook. You can listen to his podcast: Referrals Done Right.
Go to https://betterhelp.com/resilience or click Notes on Resilience during sign up for 10% off your first month of therapy with my sponsor BetterHelp.
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Producer / Editor: Neel Panji
Invite Manya to inspire and empower your teams and position your organization as a forward-thinking leader in well-being, resilience, and trauma sensitivity.
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#trauma #resilience #compassion #MentalHealth #CompassionateLeadership #leadership #survivor
You can't build any solid relationship around trust and respect in a two-month, three-month period of time. It just it takes time. You have to take the stairs. There is no elevator to a strong, deep, rich, meaningful relationship.
Manya Chylinski:Hello and welcome to Notes on Resilience. I'm your host, manya Chyilinski. My guest today is Scott Graetz, for one more episode in the Technology and Wellbeing series. He is an author, podcaster, entrepreneur and a coach for small business owners, and we talked about the power of personal connections in an increasingly digital world and my new favorite phrase h2h human to human. That is what all businesses are. I think you're really going to enjoy this conversation. Hey, scott, I'm so glad we're talking today. Thank you for being here.
Scott Grates:Yeah, thanks for having me.
Manya Chylinski:The first question I ask is know if there's any moment?
Scott Grates:in modern history that was more critical to our nation than the Civil War, and just so my answer is Abraham Lincoln. And and I you know the reason being I just sometimes I struggle, as a small business owner and a father of three, to juggle things. And I look at someone like Abraham Lincoln and I'm like how did this human being juggle the weight of a country, such hate and decisiveness and, just you know, knowing what's right but also trying to be political and bring sides together? So I would need those questions answered, manya.
Manya Chylinski:Yes, I hear you and I would love to be a fly on the wall or a guest at the table at that dinner. I really appreciate that you are bringing in the personal side of it. Often, when we think about leaders, we just think about what you know, what did you do, what didn't you do, how did you build consensus All of these kind of leadership questions. But you're actually thinking what was the weight of it on him and how did it feel for him? And I think that would be amazing if we could have answers to those questions.
Scott Grates:Yeah, no doubt, really with all leaders. You know, when you look at just keeping it here in America, when you look at a president who goes two terms politics aside, I don't care Just look at their picture from initial inauguration to when they're done. Eight years later they age 20 years the amount of stress, pressure, just the personal sacrifice that leaders go through political and not, I don't think is appreciated. I know we're going to talk about the human touch on this podcast and why it's so important, but yeah, yeah, absolutely, and you are right.
Manya Chylinski:We are going to be talking about the human touch and personal connections. We are going to be talking about the human touch and personal connections. You are a guest in our technology and well-being series and wanted to talk with you about, you know, how do we keep those personal connections, or how do we keep that human touch as our world is getting increasingly digital? I'd love to hear your perspective on that.
Scott Grates:Yeah. So the first thing two words I use a lot are strategic and intentional. It almost sounds counterintuitive to talk about personal touch and human to human relationships as needing to be strategic and intentional because those feel very businessy and cold. Yes, and intentional because those feel very businessy and cold. But I have devoted my professional life to helping fellow small business owners battle inconsistency, because I truly believe at the core of every struggle we have, every obstacle we face. We know the solution, we have the answers that that we're seeking, but we struggle to consistently do the work um to to get to where we want to be. And so, when it comes to the human relationships in this digitally dominated world, I think you have to be strategic and intentional with your actions and activities, to consistently show up for the right people at the right moments, which are moments that other people aren't, to show them that you really care and you really notice. It's a mindset thing.
Scott Grates:I often say that I'm a detective. My mission is to learn something about you that others may not know, take copious notes because we can't trust our memory and then show up in a unique, uncommon way in the future to highlight that. You know I remember Manya for this, and maybe that's a handwritten note or a card or even just you know we can leverage digital with a social media post or tag or you know something like that. But it's still personal because it's something that I recognized, heard, saw in you and remembered and then circled back around now. But that takes intentionality.
Manya Chylinski:Yeah, it does, yeah, it does. And, as you were saying that, digital nomads and you think about, I think it's harder to send a postcard or a physical thank you note. Are we losing something because of that?
Scott Grates:Yeah, I think we are, and I think I would start with, we're losing sight of even even the nomads. Everyone's got a home base, right? I mean, we all have bills where. Where are where's the, the tax bill going? Where's the utility bill going? Where's the you know? So I mean there's still a way to get into your physical mailbox and, and you know, I think, just the everyone likes getting gifts. Do you like getting gifts?
Manya Chylinski:I do yes, okay yeah.
Scott Grates:So, Manya, I you know I appreciate taking the time with me today. I do have a small gift that I like to send your way. Do you mind if I just grab your address and people? You would give me your address, right and and so this is as simple as that. We overthink pretty simple solutions. If you want to get someone's physical address, ask them for it, but but there's always that that give to receive right, and so if I'm going to give you something, this gift that I'm promising you, and it might be something simple, like a cookie tray, or we send out brownies or you know, just something small but thoughtful I'm going to offer that and then return. You're going to give me your address and away we go.
Manya Chylinski:Yes, and you said an important word overthinking. I'm a classic overthinker. In fact, I saw a social media prompt that suggested that we ask chat GPT, what do you know about me that, given our interactions, what do you know about me that I might not know about myself? It came back with essentially, you're an overthinker. And I thought, oh sweetie, I already know that.
Scott Grates:I love that your AI bot is sweetie that feels human to me. That feels real.
Manya Chylinski:Well, thank you for that, and it isn't as difficult as certainly I was thinking in my head. You're right. In that case, of course, if you tell me you're going to send me a gift, I'm going to give you my address. As we're thinking about technology these days, I think back to the beginning of the pandemic and how important technology was for helping us stay connected in a way that I don't think we imagined technology could really do, way that I don't think we imagined technology could really do. Now that we're past the crisis point of the pandemic and we're back out in the real world, how can we make sure that the technology that we're using complements, rather than replaces human interaction?
Scott Grates:Yeah, I love that you phrased it that way, because you know I'm all for technology. It is a tool. It is meant to be complementary, to enhance something we're already doing. It's not lost on me that we are recording this hours to make it happen in real life, right. So this is an enhancement, a tool that simplifies our life and still brings meaning and value to each other.
Scott Grates:But there is going to be a day where, if you and I see this relationship to be mutually beneficial and we want to collaborate and take it to the next level professionally and things we can work on, we're going to want to meet eyeball to eyeball, right. And business is still an H2H, a human to human interaction. It has to be. You know, what deep level relationship do you have with somebody you've never met? And there may be outliers out there, right in certain situations, but for the most part and you brought up, you know the pandemic I run a coaching, consulting, training company that I was traveling all over the country, much like you do, with speaking and workshops, and when COVID hit we had to go to Zoom and I'm not going to lie, it was really refreshing Pandemic stuff aside, just the way we were doing business.
Scott Grates:I was sick of being in airports and hotels and eating like crap and sleeping in time zones, and I remember specifically the spring of 2020, coming out of my basement where my makeshift studio was at the time and five o'clock and grabbed a beer with my wife in the kitchen and I'm like I just had over a hundred people in four different time zones on a call and was able to deliver a message or do a workshop or seminar, whatever it was.
Scott Grates:That would have taken me weeks to travel all over to get in front of those people, and so it was this aha moment that this is okay, right, but then we got to where we are now, right At 2023, 2024. And I had years of relationships with people I had never met and were craving just the opposite. We just did a corporate retreat and we brought people from all over the country and it was just so amazing to log off together, enjoy each other's company, people that we had met and built relationships through Zoom, but took it to the next level, which we couldn't do any other way than to be in the same room, eyeball to eyeball, feeling that energy, connecting emotionally, you know, and just it's deeper level, human stuff that you just can't get with technology.
Manya Chylinski:And I think now of the people that I met via Zoom and I have met in person, and just the excitement of, oh, you know you're shorter, taller, something else different than I thought you were, and just that feeling of I know you, but now I know we've taken our relationship to the next level because we're in the same space and we're interacting.
Scott Grates:I laugh because that's the number one thing I get is that people tell me I pictured you taller.
Manya Chylinski:I'm like, yeah, well, I picture me taller on my vision board, but it's just not the reality I get oh my, you're much taller than I thought you were in your Zoom. So, as somebody in one of my other podcasts said, you know we're all equal in Zoom. If we're doing gallery, we are all a certain number of inches wide, so we don't get that sense of how different we present ourselves to the world.
Scott Grates:That is so interesting, you know. And the other thing, as you were saying that that came to mind is these are like little TV screens and so when I'm running a webinar, a seminar, workshop, over Zoom, as the presenter I'm, you know, quote, unquote, the star of the show right on this TV screen. And so what's happened is when we start meeting people, people like think you're this star, right, which is the farthest thing from the truth, but I love it because it makes my wife do the like puke, you know, finger down, throat, puke, you know. Sign. When we're in an airport and I run into someone, that's funny and they want to take a picture, and you know, my daughter's like, wow, is dad famous?
Manya Chylinski:See it, and it was such a disconnect in my brain, thinking I'm you know, I'm thinking I'm just me, and but also trying to honor that they were very excited to meet me, because that is very real, that it feels strange to me is not relevant in that moment. Yeah, that's great self-assessment there. Yeah, such great self-assessment there. Yeah, yeah, wow. So you work with small businesses and entrepreneurs, which I think is a group of people who are quite prone to being always on and always attentive to their business, and technology absolutely lets us do that, and that can be so detrimental to our mental health. So how can organizations, small or big, be thinking about creating clear boundaries between what you're doing for work and the rest of your life and kind of maybe encourage people to turn off the technology for a moment?
Scott Grates:So I think it all starts with what we're doing the conversation, right, creating awareness around this, just having the conversation. You know one thing that we teach and again it sounds cold, but if it's not on your calendar it won't get done, including downtime, family time, recreation time so we work off of blocks of time. This is not anything new or mind-blowing, right, but what is a little bit different that we do, to answer your question is we create what we call isolation blocks, and this sounds pretty cold, almost like you're in prison, right, but it truly. I use that word strategically because I want my team to know that for these 30 minutes you're in isolation, right, you are in a cell, a creative cell, a creative space where we don't want the dings and distractions and emails popping up. And one thing we you know I'm getting off subject, but one thing we talk about a lot with email, with text messages with you know, messages through LinkedIn and Facebook. That's somebody else's to-do list, right, and so you know they're pushing their agenda, their to-do list, what they want on you, and you don't have to accept everything that comes your way.
Scott Grates:And we talk about it being like a hot potato, like it went into your inbox but send it right back, like you would if you caught a hot potato. What we have to do with these isolation blocks is not even see it, because we don't realize that even just to know there's a message, without me reading it, I'm wondering what it is and it's distracting me from what I'm supposed to be doing. And so we turn off Skype, we turn off email, we turn off cell phones. We actually take cell phones and put them in our break room. Remove the distraction and a 30-minute block where we can be very intentional with the essential activities that are important for us to win each day, because the whirlwind or the undertow, the suck of the day is going to pull you in a million different directions. But we have to understand it's someone else's to-do list. You have to identify your main priorities and then schedule the time to work on those things specifically, without the distractions.
Manya Chylinski:Yes, absolutely. One of the best decisions I ever made was turning off the notification button on my email. So it doesn't say one. 12, 3000 messages are waiting for me. It says nothing. So if I want to know if I have an email, I have to open it up. I have to proactively go to the tool and open it to see if something is happening. And now I still sometimes do that, a little more often than I wish that I would. But it doesn't. As you were saying, that's somebody else's to-do list. So as soon as a notification would pop up, I think, oh, who wants to talk to me? What's happening? And nothing. And that was a real pull for me and recognizing that was a big, important step to realize I can actually check my email when I want to, not when somebody else says it's time to.
Scott Grates:Yeah, so I'll give you a couple of radical thoughts on especially people who are addicted to email. You can use your automatic replies to let people know that you check that email box at whatever 8 am, noon, 4 pm you would create the times, obviously, but you can use your auto replies for that. And then, below that and now, this is going to be different for everyone. But I employ other people and they have, they're very good at what they do and I'm not needed for everything, and so if I send that reply, I say, hey, I personally check this between 8 and 830, 12 and 1230, 4 and 430. If it can wait until the next block, I'll follow up with you, but if you need something immediately, here's the email or phone number or both, to my team lead or whatever, and a lot of times people will just go ahead and contact them.
Scott Grates:The other thing I did and this is really crazy for some people, but I took my work email off of my cell phone, so the only way I can access my work email is through my work laptop.
Scott Grates:I have two separate laptops, personal and professional, and I will oftentimes leave my laptop at the office knowing I can't get to it and I can't check my email.
Scott Grates:But then I also have to tell myself, remind myself, that anything that's getting emailed to me is not urgent, like if you had an urgent matter that I needed to know about immediately, you would not email it to me, right?
Scott Grates:You would call me, you would come find me, and so it's not that important. And then the last thing as you were talking, I jotted down as a little hack that people can use and I do this with social media is I don't know how many pages of apps you have on your phone, but I've got about three or four, and so LinkedIn, facebook, instagram all of my social accounts go on the last page. And just the act of having to scroll through three pages to get to the fourth, a lot of times I don't do it as often as I would if I saw those notifications or just even the fourth a lot of times I don't do it as often as I would if I saw those notifications or just even the icons on the first page when I open my phone. So kind of hiding those a little bit has helped me as well.
Manya Chylinski:Yes, we take away some of the natural stickiness that these apps. It's to their benefit for us, to social media in particular, for us to keep looking and keep checking. So of course they want us to do that, but it's to our benefit to make it slightly less attractive, whether that's moving it or turning off the notifications or something.
Scott Grates:And you bring up a great point there that I don't think people realize. I'm sure you've seen the Netflix documentary, the Social Dilemma. It's worth a watch. For anyone who hasn't, it's eye-opening, it's concerning, it's as a parent of three. It made me question my parenting, to be honest with you.
Scott Grates:That's a whole different thing, though, but a lot of good one-liners in there, and the one that stuck out to me is when you don't pay for a product, you are the product, and I took that, I took it personally, and it became this battle between me and them and I'm not gonna let them win. And that's not to say I don't I use social media. I'm on social media, like I, I do right, but. But I understand the rules of the game and I understand the algorithms and the manipulation and different things that are happening where our children don't. I don't want to go down that rabbit hole. That's a whole different, probably, episode.
Scott Grates:But again where we started the conversation, you and I is around awareness and having these conversations. You and I is around awareness and having these conversations, and you know, when you mentioned, it's their job to keep us hooked and get us on there as long as possible. It's our job to not allow it right and put bumpers in place so that we can stay in our lane and focus on what's most important. Because, again, everything on there is somebody else's agenda, right, wrong or indifferent, good or bad doesn't matter, but it's someone else's agenda and you are the product. And why would you allow yourself to be in that situation longer than you have to?
Manya Chylinski:Yes, I appreciate the point that you've said multiple times now, which is somebody else's agenda, and how important it is for us to focus on our own agenda and what do we need to get done and not let technology keep pulling us off in these different directions.
Scott Grates:Yeah, that's what it's designed to do. I know they're smarter than me, I know they have more money than me, right? And so it's this David and Goliath story, right, where I'm the underdog. But I like a good challenge and I'm not going to allow myself to get too deep into social.
Manya Chylinski:Exactly. Well, Scott, we're getting close to the end of our time. As you are thinking about technology and well-being and how we're all navigating this digital world, what is giving you hope?
Scott Grates:Yeah, conversations like this, people like you who are bringing awareness to it. My hope is that we can continue to do this with the next generation, because my fear is that you know a lot of parents, self-included. Sometimes it's just easy to give a four-year-old an iPad to quiet them down or keep them distracted, while we can do normal adult stuff for a minute, but I don't think we realize what's happening to them, wiring their brains in a certain way. You know to now where, as a small business owner, when I start interviewing people right out of school, they struggle with conversation, they struggle with eye contact, they struggle with verbal community. You know they could text me all day long. What gives me hope is that you know there's enough people and there will be more people hopefully people listening to this that will emerge as advocates, champions, people who will step up and talk about these things to our next generation and let them understand that we don't want technology to go away. We don't want technology to go away.
Scott Grates:Ai has made my life. It's streamlined so much. I've cloned my brain, frankly, like all of my blogs and books, and everything goes into AI. So if I'm stuck on something, I can use it as a think tank partner and it's you know, it's amazing, it's streamlined so much of my work. But it's an enhancement, it's part of the process, and just understanding that human relations, relationships have been going the same way for billions of years right, it is eyeball to eyeball, heart to heart Just, it can't be replaced, it just can't, and it gives me hope that it won't. And everything's cyclical, right. So right now it seems like we're at the peak of this tech frenzy, but I do believe that the contrarians and those that are like us, who realize it's just a part of what we do, it's not going to replace us and we're focused on the human-to-human. We will tip the scales a little bit the other way.
Manya Chylinski:Yes, I appreciate that. H to H, human to human. I'm going to start using that now. I hope you don't mind.
Scott Grates:Yeah, I'm sure I stole it from somewhere else.
Manya Chylinski:Scott, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much. Please tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and how they can reach you.
Scott Grates:Yeah, so you know I own multiple insurance agencies, I own a coaching consulting business, I do public speaking, workshops, seminars, but it's all based around relationship marketing and creating this connection economy based on, you know, human relations and how you can turn relationships and your reputation into revenue relations and how you can turn relationships and your reputation into revenue.
Scott Grates:And really, you know we use digital as a tool, but again, it ultimately we need to show up in unique ways and different ways at different times so that we are remembered. You can't build any solid relationship around trust and respect in a two-month, three-month period of time. It takes time, you have to take the stairs. There is no elevator to a strong, deep, rich, meaningful relationship and there's also no way to do that without you knowing who I am as a human, and AI can't replicate that and social media can show the best version of me, but you need to know who I am if you are going to become a referral partner, a business partner, and so really that's where we focus. Our time is around relationship marketing, creating a connection economy. And people can find me at my website just my name, scottgrates. com, and all of my socials and everything else is on there.
Manya Chylinski:Excellent. Thank you so much. This has been a wonderful conversation and I'm feeling better about technology in our life as a result of this, so thank you.
Scott Grates:Thank you, Manya.
Manya Chylinski:Thank you for listening. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I did. So if you'd like to learn more about me, Manya Chylinski, I work with organizations to help understand how to create environments where people can thrive after difficult life experiences, and I do this through talks and consulting. I'm a survivor of mass violence and I use my experience to help leaders learn of resiliency, compassion and trauma-sensitive leadership to build strategies to enable teams to thrive and be engaged amidst difficulty and turmoil. If this is something you want to learn more about, visit my website, www. manyachylinski. com, or email me at manya at manyachylinski. com, or stop by my social media on LinkedIn and Twitter. Thanks so much.
