Notes on Resilience
Conversations about trauma, resilience, and compassion.
How do we genuinely support individuals who have experienced trauma and build inclusive and safe environments? Trauma significantly affects the mental and physical health of those who experience it, and personal resiliency is only part of the solution. The rest lies in addressing organizational, systemic, and social determinants of health and wellness, and making the effort to genuinely understand the impact of trauma.
Here, we ask and answer the tough questions about how wellness is framed in an organizational context, what supports are available and why, what the barriers are to supporting trauma survivors, and what best practices contribute to mental wellness. These conversations provide a framework to identify areas for change and actionable steps to reshape organizations to be truly trauma sensitive.
Notes on Resilience
104: Exploring Resilience Through Historical Legacies
To close out 2024, I reviewed answers to the question I asked all my guests this year: If you could have dinner with any historical figure who would it be and why?
This episode highlights the profound impact of these figures from the past and some of the not-so-distant past. This episode touches on themes of resilience, family connections, literary influences, and the legacies of activists who shaped society through their courage and actions.
• Guests reflect on the importance of personal role models
• Resilience can originate from familial connections
• Influential literary figures serve as sources of inspiration
• The significance of activism in shaping societal change
• Intersectionality enriches the understanding of resilience
• Lessons from historical figures inform contemporary challenges
• Engaging with personal and historical narratives deepens connections
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I was torn between Susan B Anthony and Harriet Tubman and then, right before we got on this call, I realized I found through my Googling that they actually met once in a room at like a dinner party. So I would like to be at that dinner party to meet both of them, mostly because I just want to say thank you. My life is because of people like them, with Susan B Anthony's gender female activism and really working for women's rights and the right to vote, all of that. And then Harriet Tubman's courage to save all the people that she saved, and to be in a room with two people who knew what they had to do and weren't afraid to do it, and they just did it anyways, even if it was hard, through all the challenges and the impossibility of it, of the tasks that they were faced with.
Speaker 1:I want to say that they had courage, but knowing when you're in a position like that, it's really like you don't think about the courage. Those people probably didn't think I'm being courageous. They thought I have no other choice other than to do this thing because it's in front of me and it's what I have to do and I get that. So I feel like I just want to say you did it and thank you, and this is what the life has looked like now because of you. Maybe like draw from some of that courage and draw some inspiration from them.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to Notes on Resilience. I'm your host, manya Chilinski. Welcome to our special year-end episode. Throughout the year, with my guests, we've explored many facets of resilience, but in today's episode, we are revisiting a question that sparked some really insightful and touching responses. If you could have dinner with any historical figure, who would it be and why? Let's take a look at the fascinating choices our guests made and what they reveal about resilience, inspiration and human connection. We're going to start with a theme that emerged strongly the power of personal connections and family history. This shows us that resilience often has its roots in our closest relationships and the wisdom passed down through generations. Sheila Fasil chose her grandmother, and this highlights the profound impact that personal role models can have on our resilience.
Speaker 3:The person I would really love to have dinner with is my grandmother, who passed away almost two and a half years ago now, and the reason why, especially in reflecting on some of the topics that we'll discuss today. She was the embodiment of resilience, and it's only after her passing that I was really able to fully grasp and understand how much she changed and trauma and all kinds of like life situations that she survived and thrived through and remained empathetic, joyful, like beacon of hope for our family.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:And she did not know how to read or write, so she was able to tap into something like deep inside of her that I think was really powerful, and I would love to explore that with her more.
Speaker 2:Her choice is a powerful reminder that sometimes the most influential people in our lives are those who have quietly overcome tremendous obstacles without any recognition. This sentiment was echoed by my guest, Kamini Wood.
Speaker 4:Well, there are many historical figures that I would want to have a meal with, just to learn from them and gain knowledge from them. But the person that I actually would love to be able to sit down and have a meal with once again would be my maternal grandfather, because he always would drop these nuggets of wisdom and I didn't quite understand what they meant, and as I've been getting older and going through my own growth process, so many of those nuggets make more sense and I would love to be able to actually converse with him about them from the place I am today, versus when he dropped them on me to begin with.
Speaker 2:Her choice reflects how our understanding of resilience can evolve over time. Her desire to revisit her grandfather's wisdom through her adult eyes shows resilience isn't just about overcoming challenges. It's also about continually reinterpreting what has happened and applying life's lessons. Chris Lucas also chose his grandfather.
Speaker 5:The answer to this one came out immediately in my head. He's a not very particularly well-known actor but if you went back and saw, like the VCR clue game, the man on the cover plays the role of the butler. He was also my grandfather and he passed away when I was really little, but he had this amazing career in film, commercials, all this stuff, and I would give anything to learn more about that aspect of his life, because I'm constantly told how much I am, how similar we are, and all of that like how similar we are and all of that.
Speaker 2:His emotional connection to his grandfather's legacy is an example of how our family history can be a source of inspiration and a source of resilience, and it's also a reminder that our personal histories are intertwined with broader stories and historical narratives. Sari Singer, a survivor of terrorism and founder of Strength to Strength, also talked about family connections.
Speaker 6:I think that if there was anybody that I could have dinner with, I'd want it to be like family, like great-grandparents, like people that I didn't know, as I think that through my experiences, I've realized the importance of that the family and connection and history, and understanding better where we come from, to how we are today, in the future.
Speaker 2:Our family's history can be a source of resilience, and one thing it does is helps us contextualize our own struggles and look at the larger story of what it means to persevere. Moving from personal connections to inspirational figures, many guests chose individuals who've left an indelible mark on society. Wen Peets chose Maya Angelou, which shows how seeing ourselves reflected in the stories of resilient figures can be a really powerful motivator.
Speaker 8:The first person that comes to mind is Maya Angelou. She resonates with me on so many levels seasoned self-belief and clarity of language, in a way that transcends age, race, ethnicity, circumstance, religion. Oh, when I stumbled upon her vast knowledge and how she let's call it self-engineered her life, I'd have no other word. From where she came from? Oh, I come back to her so many times. For me, it's her. Maya Angelou represented an example of who I could become. I'm also a musician. She's a musician, she's a poet. She represents her trauma, background, similar, and just how she traveled and I've traveled. I could see myself in her and so right away she resonated.
Speaker 2:Her choice reminds us that resilience can be about how to create a meaningful life. Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley also chose Maya Angelou for deeply personal reasons.
Speaker 9:But in terms of of conventional historic figures, it would be Maya Angelou. Oh, yeah, yeah, dr Maya Angelou. And the reason why is because, as a child who experienced a fair amount of adverse childhood experiences and trauma, specifically intrafamily childhood sexual abuse when I read I Know why the Caged Bird Sings. It's the first time that I knew I wasn't alone in the world. So it is not in any way you know hyperbole or I'm not being dramatic to say that that book and the words of Maya Angelou saved my life and I've just always had this kinship with her.
Speaker 9:I love poetry. Whenever I need anchoring, when I need clarity, when I need healing, I read her poetry For many years. I hosted a poetry slam in her honor on her birthday, april 4th, and then, finally, I had the distinct privilege of meeting her once when I was a producer for one of the Democratic National Conventions and I outreached to her to be a part of one of my segments and she agreed and I asked her to sign, to autograph something for me and to pen a note, and she only wrote three letters, one word, and it was the word joy, wrote three letters, one word, and it was the word joy. And I thought about this woman, this incredible orator her presidential inauguration poem On the Pulse of Mourning is also one of my favorites and I said here's this great orator, this wordsmith, this author, and she could have written anything, and she just wrote the words joy with an exclamation point. And so that has really set me on my own path and why I'm so intentional about informing joy in my policy work and in my life.
Speaker 2:Ayaan's powerful testimony to Anjalu's impact makes it clear how literature and art can be lifelines for those who are struggling with trauma, can be lifelines for those who are struggling with trauma, and there's healing power in shared experiences and the importance of representation. Ingrid Cochran, an expert in adverse childhood experiences, selected another influential writer, zora Neale Hurston.
Speaker 7:I believe it would be Zora Neale Hurston, who was a woman who was a writer during the Harlem Renaissance. She's from Alabama and her take on her experiences with intersectionality of racism and sexism was very refreshing for her time, so I would want to have dinner with her. She seemed like a good time.
Speaker 2:This choice highlights the importance of examining resilience through the lens of intersectionality. Hurston was able to write about difficult experiences with a sense of hope, and that offers us valuable lessons as we are working through our own trauma or for those of us who are working in trauma-informed fields. Bobby Temps, a mental health advocate and podcaster, chose a musical icon.
Speaker 10:So the one that immediately comes to mind is Nina Simone. She's a massive inspiration to me and a lot of that is to do with you know what she achieved. You know as a visionary, of course, with music, but also with advocacy in her own. You know fields. You know particularly civil rights and human justice in the States, and I find her kind of spirit and her relentless drive incredible when she was so up against the times and there's a documentary about her on Netflix where I believe it's her daughter talks about her always being in Congress with herself but rarely being in Congress with the world and something about that really speaks to me. That you know so much of what we're both passionate about is looking to the future and what we would like to see change and knowing that how important you know, both personally and professionally, mental health is, but not always seeing that reflected in the world. So there's something about her striving, even though there was so much pushback, just continues to inspire me.
Speaker 2:His admiration for Nina Simone's. Resilience in the face of societal pushback is something that will be very familiar to a lot of the advocates who are listening today. Resilience often involves staying true to one's values and missions even when faced with significant opposition. From art and literature, we move to activism and leadership. Many guests selected figures who have shaped history through their actions and ideals, very often while facing tremendous adversity. Reggie Reed selected a symbol of reconciliation and perseverance Nelson Mandela.
Speaker 11:You know, there's so many historical figures that I do admire, but one that stands out is.
Speaker 11:Nelson Mandela, figures that I do admire, but one that stands out is Nelson Mandela and in particularly, it's, you know, the life and legacy that he left as a leader and you know, being the activist that he was, you know it displayed a symbol of reconciliation in ways that always intrigued me. You know, because he did so much, as far as you know, when the apartheid happened in South Africa, you know, and just fighting through that, you know those challenges and triumph, his fight to overcome that was bar none.
Speaker 2:Reggie's choice is an example of how resilience can manifest on the larger level, the level of all of society. So Mandela was able to focus on reconciliation after years of oppression, and that is a powerful lesson for anyone working to build resilience in communities especially affected by systemic challenges. I, david Daniels, an advocate for inclusive workplaces, chose a more recent historical figure President Barack Obama.
Speaker 13:I'd buy him dinner. I would. I actually had opportunity to attend his first inauguration. Oh, I share for people. It is literally the first time that I waved an American flag and it meant something to me. It was colder than Alaska, but, yeah just, I'll never forget that moment for the rest of my life and I would love to. Yeah, I'd sit down. I don't even drink coffee and I drink a cup with him.
Speaker 2:His emotional connection to Obama's inauguration underscores again the importance of representation here at the highest levels of leadership and how that can encourage hope and how important that kind of societal progress is to all of us. Jeremy Wilroy selected a leader who resonated with his own personal experience.
Speaker 14:Interesting question for me, just because I'm not necessarily a history buff, but for some reason the name that popped in my mind was Franklin Roosevelt, and one of the reasons for this was because of having had polio myself as a wheelchair user. Just seeing someone who is in such a huge role. Of course, he was a great leader. He served three full terms and was elected for a fourth term, led us through the Great Depression and World War II and all these things, but he managed to do that as a person with a disability. He was very productive, so I'd ask him a lot of questions about how do you have such a sustainable career and all of that him a lot of questions about how do you have such a sustainable career?
Speaker 2:and all of that. His choice of Franklin Roosevelt shows the importance of role models who demonstrate resilience in the face of physical challenges, and the importance of us thinking about redefining success and productivity in the context of a disability, and, again, the importance of representation that matters. Some of our guests chose figures from specific moments in history and reveal that resilience can be inspired by such a wide range of experiences and perspectives. Marianne McAvoy, an advocate for trauma-informed practices, made an interesting choice.
Speaker 15:I don't know if you're familiar with Sarah Good, but Sarah Good was one of the first women to be executed in the Salem witch trials. Oh, okay, I would love to hear her story from her perspective and how she was treated by her community and what that felt like. And she was very outspoken, she was very much an advocate. So I'm curious to know. I would, just I would there are so many questions I would have for her and how she navigated. Just living in those times and maybe if we spoke in an afterlife if that exists, you know, how did she feel looking back at everything she experienced? What would she have done differently or what did she wish her community did differently?
Speaker 2:Her interest in Sarah Good from the Salem Witch Trials highlights how looking at historical injustices can inform our understanding of resilience, and a very good reminder which some of us need some time of how important it is to stand up for oneself in the face of societal pressure and, in this case, false accusations. Kyla Cofer couldn't choose just one person. Instead, she chose a remarkable historical meeting.
Speaker 1:I was torn between Susan B Anthony and Harriet Tubman and then, right before we got on this call, I realized I found through my Googling that they actually met once in a room at like a dinner party.
Speaker 1:So I would like to be at that dinner party to meet both of them, mostly because I just want to say thank you.
Speaker 1:My life is because of people like them, with Susan B Anthony's gender, female activism and really working for women's rights and the right to vote, all of that, and then Harriet Tubman's courage to save all the people that she saved, and just I don't know I keep thinking to be in a room with two people who knew what they had to do and weren't afraid to do it, and they just did it anyways, even if it was hard, through all the challenges and the impossibility of it, of the tasks that they were faced with.
Speaker 1:I want to say that they had courage, but knowing, when you're in a position like that, it's really like you don't think about the courage. Those people probably didn't think I'm being courageous. They thought I have no other choice other than to do this thing because it's in front of me and it's what I have to do and I get that. So I feel like I just want to say you did it and thank you, and this is what the life has looked like now because of you. I think that'd be really great, maybe like draw from some of that courage and draw inspiration from them.
Speaker 2:Her desire to thank Susan B Anthony and Harriet Tubman is just an example of the profound impact that courageous individuals can have on future generations. They shape history and inspire others to create positive change. And if we're talking about shaping history, Aaron Chasian's choice of Frederick Law Olmsted.
Speaker 16:The person that I have landed on is Frederick Olmsted. Do you know who Olmsted is Architect? Oh, the landscape architecture back in the day, and I don't know, he was like someone who was really interested in conservationism and like creating beautiful spaces, while others were interested in like giant buildings that were super profitable, yeah. And so I think that he would just be a fascinating person to talk to, and I would love to kind of ask him like okay, you can design a city from scratch. What does that look like? It could be really cool.
Speaker 2:Olmsted was a visionary thinker who created spaces that benefit society, and so for some people, the concept of resilience can actually involve seeing potential where others might not and creating solutions that have far reaching impacts. Hudson Harris picked two disruptors who changed the course of history.
Speaker 17:I'm a really big fan of disruptors. That's like when I look back at history. I really like the people who have completely changed the nature of things and been the pebble in the wheel track, if you will. The only time my mom ever took me out of school through all of my K-12 was to go meet Rosa Parks, and I think, yeah, I went to.
Speaker 17:I was living in Amarillo, Texas, and got to go meet her when she was still I think it was in the sixth grade or seventh grade so I got to actually talk with her, shake her hand and I had no idea what I was doing. I was sixth or seventh grade, no appreciation for the opportunity. So I'd love to sit down with her. I've read a lot about her and she liked to make peanut butter pancakes and I think that, as a former chef, I love to connect with people over food, so I'd love to have dinner with her. I'd also love to have dinner with Kamala Harris. To be perfectly honest, she's the first person to bring chili peppers to the White House, and I'm a humongous spicy fan. So I'll pick those two as disruptors for myself that I would love to be able to talk to.
Speaker 2:His choice reminds us that small acts of courage can lead to monumental changes. Kevin Becker took an unexpected approach.
Speaker 12:You know, I don't think I have a particular person, but I think I would want to talk with somebody who first discovered glass. Oh, cool, and it's obviously. I don't think there's a single person who's credited with that, but part of my self-care is I'm a glassblower. Oh wow.
Speaker 8:And it's part of my self-care is.
Speaker 12:I'm a glassblower, oh wow, and it's part of my therapy, and so, as I've begun blowing glass, I've realized just how glass has changed the world completely. I mean, it's given us better vision, it's given us microscopes, it's given us telescopes. It's given us computers, microscopes, it's given us telescopes, it's given us computers. So many things came from the founding, the discovery, creation of glass that I'd want to talk with somebody who kind of first came upon it.
Speaker 2:Like Aaron's choice of Olmsted, kevin's pick reminds us about seeing potential where others might not and creating solutions that have far-reaching impacts as we near the end of our journey. Scott Graetz chose a figure who faced challenges not unlike those we face today.
Speaker 18:I don't know if there's any moment in modern history that was more critical to our nation than the Civil War, and just so, my answer is Abraham Lincoln. And and I you know the reason being I just sometimes I struggle, as a small business owner and a father of three, to to juggle things. And I look at someone like Abraham Lincoln and I'm like how did this human being juggle the weight of a country, such hate and decisiveness and, just you know, knowing what's right but also trying to be political and bring sides together?
Speaker 2:His admiration for Abraham Lincoln's ability to navigate complex challenges can resonate with those who struggle to balance personal and professional responsibilities. With those who struggle to balance personal and professional responsibilities, being resilient often can mean making difficult decisions in the face of conflicting demands. Eric Porras took us way back to ancient wisdom that still resonates today, and he showed us that the foundations of resilience and personal growth have been contemplated for millennia. We are not the first people to be thinking about this.
Speaker 19:I think my answer would be Aristotle, because he is known for coining this quote that I first learned about from my 10th grade European history teacher. It was an assignment for our summer assignment to write an essay on it, and Aristotle is known to have said we are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit, and so I would love to spend a little time with Aristotle opining on that quote, and then, after Aristotle, maybe I would do brunch with Marcus Aurelius, and then I would have an amuse-bouche with Abraham Lincoln.
Speaker 2:This is such a great reminder that cultivating resilience is an ongoing process. It involves self-reflection and intentional action. And finally, Dr Liz Clark takes an unexpected approach. She didn't look into the past when I asked her this question.
Speaker 20:But then, when I really thought about this and when we think about it, our historical figures, especially with how they contributed to what we're working on right now the one person that I would actually want to meet with is more forward-facing. I would actually I wish I could move into the future. I wish I could look at two years from now, meeting with Liz Clark, and I would love to be able to sit down with Liz Clark to say, hey, all the things that you're building and working on right now, how did that work out? Because while I can go in the past and I can look at historical figures and we can learn from them and we have brilliant, amazing people that do biographies on and autobiographies on these amazing figures, I would really love to be able to move forward to the future and say, hey, how did that work out, how did that go and how do we contribute differently to our system. So, not really answering your question, but excited to be able to, it definitely generated a lot of thoughts.
Speaker 2:Her desire to meet her future self is an interesting way to think about resiliency. It's continually growing and adapting and it encourages us to think about the long-term impact of our current efforts. And as we wrap up this journey through time and human experience, it reminds me that resilience is about how we understand ourselves and our world and our potential for the future, whether it's a family member who shaped us personally, world-changing figures who've altered the course of history, or even our own future selves. These choices of who someone would have dinner with and why are just a reflection of the many different ways we connect with our shared human story. Thanks for joining me on this exploration of resilience through the lens of these historical dinner companions. As we close out the year, I hope these reflections inspired you to consider your own sources of resilience and the figures who have shaped your journey. Thank you. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2:I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I did. So if you'd like to learn more about me, manya Chilinski, I work with organizations to help understand how to create environments where people can thrive after difficult life experiences, and I do this through talks and consulting. I'm a survivor of mass violence and I use my experience to help leaders learn about resiliency, compassion and trauma-sensitive leadership to build strategies to enable teams to thrive and be engaged amidst difficulty and turmoil. If this is something you want to learn more about, visit my website, wwwmanyachilinskicom, or email me at Manya at Manya Chilinski, or stop by my social media on LinkedIn and Twitter. Thanks so much.
