Notes on Resilience
Conversations about trauma, resilience, and compassion.
How do we genuinely support individuals who have experienced trauma and build inclusive and safe environments? Trauma significantly affects the mental and physical health of those who experience it, and personal resiliency is only part of the solution. The rest lies in addressing organizational, systemic, and social determinants of health and wellness, and making the effort to genuinely understand the impact of trauma.
Here, we ask and answer the tough questions about how wellness is framed in an organizational context, what supports are available and why, what the barriers are to supporting trauma survivors, and what best practices contribute to mental wellness. These conversations provide a framework to identify areas for change and actionable steps to reshape organizations to be truly trauma sensitive.
Notes on Resilience
106: Compassionate Leadership and Cultural Transformation with Leanne McEvoy
Compassionate leadership is essential for fostering an engaging and trustworthy workplace culture.
Leanne McEvoy, co-founder and CEO of L2 Culture Solutions, shares her insights on the importance of lived experiences, vulnerability, and trust in creating compassionate environments.
In this episode of Notes on Resilience, we unpack the often performative nature of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives and explore how leaders can cultivate workplaces where personal stories and individuality are celebrated. Leanne's insights reveal how vulnerability from leadership is key to building trust and fostering a supportive culture, ultimately helping organizations retain their top talent by valuing more than just technical skills.
Discover how to transform organizational culture by prioritizing well-being and resilience and get a roadmap for creating supportive spaces where both individuals and organizations can flourish.
Leanne is the Co-Founder and CEO of L2 Culture Solutions, which is on a mission to revolutionize human resources, culture, and benefits and transform how organizations empower their people. She has extensive experience in executive leadership and in public sector healthcare, mental health, and advocacy. She is a challenger of the status quo and is driven to change the world.
You can learn more about L2 Culture Solutions on the website, and learn more about Leanne and connect with her on LinkedIn.
Go to https://betterhelp.com/resilience or click Notes on Resilience during sign up for 10% off your first month of therapy with my sponsor BetterHelp.
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Producer / Editor: Neel Panji
Invite Manya to inspire and empower your teams and position your organization as a forward-thinking leader in well-being, resilience, and trauma sensitivity.
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I think a lot of it is performative. I think there's a lack of understanding around the true impact, meeting by example and it's kind of the DEI checkbox. We've done DEI and this is check that box, but to truly look at an individual and understand their lived experiences it takes time. It's building trust.
Manya Chylinski:Hello and welcome to Notes on Resilience. I'm your host, manya Chylinski. My guest today is Leanne McEvoy. She's the co-founder and CEO of L2 Culture Solutions. She describes herself as a safe space and she believes meaningful progress begins with confronting our fears and embracing the discomfort that often accompanies it. We talked about building a compassionate workplace, the role of fear, vulnerability and trust. I think you're going to really like this conversation. I am so excited that you and I are talking on the podcast. Thank you, I'm excited to be here. So the first question before we dive into the topic of compassionate leadership what is one thing that you have done that you never thought you would do?
Leanne McEvoy:So I've been thinking about that question and I have a personal response and I have a professional response because I'm not just me as an individual. I wear lots of hats. So the first thing is probably becoming a single mom after a divorce which, unless and until you've been through it and when I said the words to my ex-husband I never thought that this would be us. It was not something that I ever planned for and that has actually had an impact what I have done professionally. So I never imagined that I would be a co-founder of a company that had the potential to become a unicorn and starting this company it was not the intention, but the more due diligence that we've come to understand and recognize the potential is far larger than we initially anticipated. So it's both personal and professional.
Manya Chylinski:Wow, excellent, and before we end, we're going to get some details about your company. Before then, let's chat about the concept of compassionate leadership and just to start with, what do you think that means in an organizational setting Compassionate?
Leanne McEvoy:leadership is so powerful and I began my career in the business world and had no real understanding of what compassionate leadership looked like, real understanding of what compassionate leadership looked like. I just used my own kind of personal values in recognizing the value of human beings. And then I left the business world and I got my master's in clinical social work so I really understood more about human behavior and empathy and humility. And moving into the public sector, when you are mission and purpose driven, there is compassion tied to that. So when you can put yourself in someone else's shoes to truly understand their journey, there is a compassion that comes with that. And my own experience is that most leaders don't have a willingness to do that, but those that do. It's a very different style of leadership, which I appreciate Absolutely.
Manya Chylinski:You mentioned something interesting in your journey that aligning your personal values to the work that you're doing. And I wonder, as we're looking at leaders and we're talking about compassionate leadership is this a mismatch of personal values and professional responsibility in organizations where there isn't as much compassion?
Leanne McEvoy:So interesting for you to ask that. And in the workplace we're taught that your personal experiences are left behind and you show up to do the job. But someone's personal experiences whether it is being an immigrant, whether it's trauma, whether it's being part of a family of someone in the armed services there are lived experiences that go along with that, that define resilience, perseverance, determination, grit, empathy. And in my career I have always, when I've interviewed and hired people, I have been more focused on lived experiences, because to me, those things are the essence of how someone is going to perform at work.
Manya Chylinski:Absolutely. In general, if we're looking at a workplace, that hasn't really been the case, that we think about people's lived experiences and we think about what they're bringing to, what part of themselves they're bringing to work, and I know that's something you're working to change.
Leanne McEvoy:How do we change that? And you're absolutely right, it's. We've got AI, we've got applicant tracking systems, where it is about the words on your resume or in your LinkedIn profile that either are going to weave you in or weave you out, and I think it's a huge disconnect. Connect to what it really means to hire a person of morality and values and determination, and there are certainly companies that want to check the box. It doesn't matter who you are or your lived experiences. Where did you go to college? What is your background? Where have you worked? Okay, you fit those boxes, if you will, means to succeed in an environment at your company. Hr and people leadership are not always comfortable answering those types of questions, and it's the companies that have employees that do.
Manya Chylinski:My own belief is that they are better positioned to retain top talent because they recognize the individual for the individual, not just for their hard skills, if you will Right, and you talk about lived experience and we've all dealt with something different levels but things that are difficult, traumatic, and we're all carrying those and we don't all want to share that with everybody. I happen to be someone who does share my story. I know a lot of people who don't talk about the difficult things that are going on in their life In the workplace. As an organization, we can't require people to reveal what's going on. So how do we build an environment that's compassionate and safe without requiring people to tell us what's going on with them?
Leanne McEvoy:Yeah, that's a really sensitive question and very spot on, it begins with leadership. It begins with leadership being willing to share their own personal experiences. Share their own personal experiences, and for a leader to share that they have battled with depression or anxiety, or for another leader to share that they have a child or a parent that they are caring for for different reasons. When people start to show that level of vulnerability, it creates safe spaces for employees to do the same. What they have to realize, though, in sharing that information, is that it's not just about being vulnerable. It's making sure that they have the resources to support their employees, just as the leader needs resources to support them.
Manya Chylinski:Yes, absolutely. We talk a lot about leaders need to do X. They need to be fostering this culture of X. They are also part of the culture and they are also employees who are dealing with their own life experiences. What do you think we're not getting right in leadership development programs when it comes to helping leaders be more compassionate and build those safe spaces?
Leanne McEvoy:I think a lot of it is performative. I think there's a lack of understanding around the true impact, meeting by example. And you know, it's kind of the DEI checkbox. We've done DEI and this is Check that box but to truly look at an individual and understand their lived experiences, it takes time.
Leanne McEvoy:It's building trust, and trust in an organization does not come easily, and a lot of organizations will talk about well, yeah, we want to build trust with our clients, but unless and until you build trust within your culture, it is not going to be the ripple effect out to client relations. And so, again, this probably goes a little to my clinical background, but in order to build trust, there has to be mutual giving and taking, and the greatest barrier to trust is fear. And if someone is afraid of anything to do with me personally, there will never be trust. So it's a process and when an organization can embrace, okay, what do we need to do to build trust? It's not an employee engagement survey, it's not any type of survey. Really. It's time. It's taking the time to establish core values as part of a mission and a vision and then for leadership to uphold those values and lead with those values and ask employees. How do you feel about this? Do you feel safe? Do you feel that this is a trustworthy environment? And not through a survey, but person to person.
Manya Chylinski:It's about connection, and I would add, asking the question and listening and maybe doing something from the answer. We've all had that experience of sharing our opinion or filling out a survey and realizing that it was just a dead end, that somehow it was a box they were checking, that we're going to do this survey and nothing has come of it.
Leanne McEvoy:And that's where a lot of frustration comes from, and that's where low engagement comes from, low productivity comes from, high turnover comes from. There are a group of people that will just show up, do their job and go home, but there are also a group of people that are mission and purpose driven, that believe that their job is making a difference, and so they show up with a purpose and an intentionality. And when they do that, if it's positively recognized, it will continue. But if it is dismissed or not validated, you stop caring. And work is such a big part of our lives. If we don't care about what we're doing and it's just a means to an end, you're never going to have someone who is really committed to being there. What a difference it would be if you actually cared about your employees and showed them that that's courageous leadership, that's. I appreciate you saying the words, and it just creates such a different dynamic that is so powerful.
Manya Chylinski:Yes, and you have used the word trust a few times now and that is such an important element of this. I heard someone say important element of this. I heard someone say trust is earned in drops and lost in buckets, and that really hit home to me because once you lose someone's trust, it is very difficult to get it back. And if we're talking about a workplace setting where you have not listened when someone said there was a problem or, worse, somehow retaliated when someone reported there was a problem, are you ever going to get that trust back?
Leanne McEvoy:You're absolutely right, and there are a lot of assumptions made about trust and I was on a call yesterday where we were talking about misinformation and fact checking and I use the term fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. And there is a lot of rhetoric, there's a lot of broad brushstrokes and for there to be trust, there has to be a willingness to say I made a mistake or I was wrong. And when you can come at it from a place of vulnerability, someone is going to have so much more respect for you, which will only yield positive results. However, if you deny, you lie, you scapegoat, you gaslight, it creates a toxic culture and I think in general, there is a level of fear put into people in different workplace cultures that you do this or this will happen. You do this or this will happen, but as more courageous leaders start to step up, that's going to start to shift and that is my hope for the future of workplace culture.
Manya Chylinski:Yes, this is a big question. What is the disconnect between us as individuals, who most of us have some amount of compassion? Most of us trust people and can be trustworthy. Why doesn't that translate into the organizational setting?
Leanne McEvoy:why doesn't that translate into the organizational setting? Well, my gosh, that's a lot to unpack. So, like I said before, I have a clinical background. So human behavior, trauma, multi-generational trauma, there's a lack of self-awareness for so many that, and I had that lack of self-awareness for so many that, and I had that lack of self-awareness until I was put into a situation of needing to address my stuff, us, these should be your values, and so we try and live out those values. But then maybe sometime we realize that those work so hard, what we want the outcomes to be, and it can sometimes lead to a lack of balance, which then can perpetuate depression or substance abuse or any other maladaptive coping skills. And so I think awareness, helping to create awareness of what people think and feel and why they think and feel it, and validate it, is a big part of the missing piece.
Manya Chylinski:As you were answering, I realized my awareness of all of this came from my own personal experience and I would say I was a reasonably compassionate person before and I am leagues more compassionate now than I was before, after experiencing being invisible and feeling marginalized and then starting to realize this is not a unique experience. Many people have felt this. It is interesting to think about the personal and how that relates to us as parts of organizations. Personal and how that relates to us as parts of organizations. You know we're getting close to the end and I want to ask, in terms of thinking about organizations and workplaces, what is the biggest risk for organizations if they're not choosing to embrace compassion and building trust and leading with that vulnerability?
Leanne McEvoy:The risk is all financial, because companies care about money and ROI. What it ultimately comes down to is lower engagement, lower productivity and higher turnover. When someone feels valuable, you'll get more out of them. And you know I think it was Gallup that did the research and it is, I think almost $9 trillion that is lost globally on an annual basis because of a loss of productivity. And that's a lot of money and leading with fear or leading with distrust. People don't buy into it's. People want to feel validated and respected and included, and it's humanity at the core. So, at the end of the day, companies that don't embrace the value of their employees, they lose money.
Manya Chylinski:Well, thank you, Leanne. This has been such a great conversation. On that note, I want you to share what you do and the important work that you're doing.
Leanne McEvoy:I am a co-founder of L2 Culture Solutions and we are building a data collection platform that goes after lived experiences through a cultural lens, through a generational lens, through a community lens, so that we can ultimately help companies connect with policies or benefits that will actually meet the needs of their employees, so that it drives the engagement and productivity and retention. Our tagline is because you matter and we care and the future of workplace culture. When employees feel that they matter, they will give you everything and then some.
Manya Chylinski:Yes, absolutely. And how can people learn more about you or your company?
Leanne McEvoy:I'm on LinkedIn, leanne McEvoy, and L2 Culture Solutions can be found at wwwltoculturesolutionscom, and I'm a safe space. So for anyone that wants to connect and learn more about L2, I'd love to talk with you. Or if you just need a safe space to share some things that you haven't been comfortable sharing with others, I welcome that engagement also.
Manya Chylinski:Wonderful, and I will put links to that in the show notes so to make it easier for folks to get in touch with you. Leanne, thank you so much. It's so fabulous to chat with you today.
Leanne McEvoy:Awesome. I love chatting with you.
Manya Chylinski:Thank you for listening. I'm Manya Chylinski. I help organizations analyze their culture, focusing on building environments where well-being and resilience can thrive. Through this process, we identify areas for growth, develop strategies and create the necessary changes to build healthier, more supportive organizations. If you're ready to make a change, I'd love to connect. If you haven't already done so, please subscribe, rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts or your listening platform of choice. It really helps others find us and if you want to continue the conversation, connect with me on LinkedIn or visit my website, www. manyachylinskicom. Thank you for being part of this journey with me.
