114: Compassionate Leadership: Putting People First with Scott Healy

Embrace the transformative power of compassionate leadership in our latest episode with Scott Healy, CEO of Psych Hub. 

He shares profound insights into why leaders should prioritize empathy, understanding, and trust within their teams. From recognizing the personal struggles of employees to creating an inclusive culture that celebrates diverse perspectives, Scott provides practical strategies for building a supportive environment. Discover how a "no assholes rule" can reshape workplace dynamics and enhance overall morale, leading to better retention rates and innovation. 

This episode offers a fresh take on leadership that goes beyond traditional metrics, emphasizing the importance of meaningful connections. Join us in this enlightening conversation that challenges conventional views about leadership and inspires you to cultivate a workplace where every team member feels valued and empowered. 

Scott Healy is a mission-driven leader who has helped build several early-stage businesses into successful companies. He is the CEO of Psych Hub, and was on the founding executive team of Care.com. In his spare time, Scott is an advisor to startup companies and a mentor to young entrepreneurs. 

Learn more about PsychHub or take the wellbeing assessment. And you can reach Scott on LinkedIn.

Go to https://betterhelp.com/resilience or click Notes on Resilience during sign up for 10% off your first month of therapy with my sponsor BetterHelp.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Compassionate Leadership
• 11:49 Defining Compassionate Leadership
• 24:02 The Role of Personal Experience in Leadership
• 36:25 Creating an Inclusive and Supportive Environment
• 51:38 Measuring Success in a Compassionate Culture
• 59:13 Final Thoughts and How to Connect

Transcript

Scott Healy: 1:17

Do people stay and do they recommend the company? Do they bring lots of referrals? And, I think, longer term, I think a great indicator of success is as people move on and do other things. Do those employees gravitate towards working together and working for the same leader again? But I think that ultimately, retaining your good people leads to better results.

Manya Chylinski: 1:44

Hello and welcome to Notes on Resilience. I'm your host, manya Chylinski. My guest today, scott Healy. He's the CEO of Psych Hub and we talked about what it is to be a compassionate leader, what it means for the organization, how important trust is in the equation and the values and mission of the organization. You're really going to enjoy this conversation. God, I am so happy to have you on the podcast today.

Scott Healy: 2:18

Great to be here, man. Yeah, great to be here.

Manya Chylinski: 2:20

So, before we dive into the topic of compassionate leadership, what is one thing that you've done that you never thought you'd do in any area of your life?

Scott Healy: 2:34

Well, it's funny. The first things that come to mind are I climbed half stone once and I ran a marathon. I was not a runner at all, but I think trumping those would be having four kids. That was definitely not the plan. We had two kids. My wife and I had two kids and we went for a third and we got twins, so got four boys. I did not think that was how it was all going to play out, but it's a great thing. I'm happy about it. But I didn't expect it.

Manya Chylinski: 3:04

Yes, it's a great thing, and I bet you're very busy.

Scott Healy: 3:08

We don't have a calm household, that's for sure.

Manya Chylinski: 3:10

Yes, Well, also climbing Half Dome. That just seems amazing. I imagine you actually did that before you had four sons.

Scott Healy: 3:19

You know what I actually took to it. So, in full transparency, I was not climbing up a straight rock face, but you can actually climb. They have cables up the kind of slope side of half to allow you to kind of pull yourself up, and they limit how many people can do it, but it was a pretty awesome experience. Yeah, that does sound awesome and not something that is going to go on my bucket list and they limit how many people can do it, but it was a pretty awesome experience.

Manya Chylinski: 3:39

Yeah, that does sound awesome and not something that is going to go on my bucket list, but I'm glad that you got a chance to do it, yeah if you don't like heights, I wouldn't recommend it, but it is definitely a bucket list item if you're not afraid of heights. Very cool. I'm not afraid of heights. I just have a deep respect for gravity.

Scott Healy: 4:02

You also need to kind of suspend your rational thinking a little bit for some of those types of things. But as long as you kind of like get up and get back down, it's a good memory to have.

Manya Chylinski: 4:13

Yes, yes, honestly. So I know we're off on a little bit of a tangent, but it's the getting back down sometimes that turns out to be a little more precarious. I climbed Pyramid in Mexico and just tore my way up to the top and not really paying attention to how steep it was, and then turned around and thought I guess I'm living here now. I can't go down. I turned around and thought I guess I'm living here now.

Scott Healy: 4:39

I can't go down yeah, that was true in halftime as well. Like when you're looking up, it's less nerve-inducing than when you're going down saying, oh my God, I can like one slip and this would not end well.

Manya Chylinski: 4:52

Exactly, exactly. Well, thank you for sharing. Now we want to talk about compassionate leadership. And just to get us started, how do you define compassionate leadership?

Scott Healy: 5:05

I mean, I look at it from the standpoint of being a leader in a business and you know, in my past growing up I was a leader on. I was a swimmer growing up and was a captain on swim teams in high school and college and things like that. So I think different context it means different things. I do think, for example, going back to when I was young and doing competitive swimming, you think about being a leader of trying to fire people up and rally people together and get get them excited in a in kind of a sports context. But there's also, like athletes and and related to kind of my current career in in mental health. Athletes are some of the people that go through the like, really struggle with mental health because they have such high personal goals that they set for themselves and most people personal goals that they set for themselves and most people at some point don't achieve them right and they're like most athletes, careers come to an end because it's over or they're not, they're not good enough and and even when you're in the middle of your kind of active sports career, athlete career, it um, there's a lot of disappointment. You know, in swimming, which is a personal or like an individual sport primarily, and it's really easy to measure how you do from times and places. It's like, you know, like it's rare that, like most people experience a fair amount of disappointment and frustration along the way. So it's it's it's being compassionate in terms of helping lift people up, help them kind of get their confidence back, things like that. So that's, that's what that was kind of my early exposure to it.

Scott Healy: 6:45

You know, like fast forward now many you know, a few decades and, having been more of a leader and and organizations and businesses, it's so easy to get in, particularly I've in a lot of startup early stage companies where it's really easy to get in the mode of, okay, this is do or die, this is survival for the business. There's nothing more important. If we don't do what we need to do to raise our next round of money or to get that next chunk of revenue, there might not be a future. All early stage businesses go through that kind of stress at some point or another, or most do. It's really easy to just kind of get so goal driven and so focused on what needs to get done in the short to midterm, that kind of people's personal lives and mental wellbeing and how they're feeling about themselves can sometimes take a back seat.

Scott Healy: 7:43

And so I've seen that and before getting into more senior leadership roles I worked in a few different startups and it takes something to be a founder of a company. It takes something to be a founder of a company that kind of borders on just being so maniacally focused and believing in your ability to be successful or to make something successful. I think it's rare that those people also have kind of the high emotional intelligence to not cast off a lot of people along the way. And so I've seen that in probably most of the startups I've been in six startups and most of the ones I've been in there's been some element of a leader who is so driven and believes so much in themselves and believes in so much in their ability to do the things that they eventually hire people to do that it's hard to please those people, and so a lot of people kind of get bruised and battered along the way trying to keep up with that. So, having experienced and seen that kind of first and second hand, to me it's about how do you build an organization where people can thrive, organization where people can thrive, where you have a high, high success rate of bringing in people that are talented and have had success in other types of organizations and pursuits and and having a high hit rate on those people being successful in your, your organization and being able to having that be a broad range of people, not just being okay, here's the highest probability of success.

Scott Healy: 9:24

Type A you know straight A student kind of always successful person and they're going to make it work. I mean, I've been in places that started like that and you pretty quickly see that we're missing something. We don't have diversity of thinking and ideas and things like that. So anyway, to net it out, I believe it's creating an environment where a broad range of people can succeed, where people that aren't necessarily the most resilient by nature or, you know, who aren't just necessarily prone or to be able to easily shake off setbacks. You need to create an environment where you're supportive of those people, where you help everybody to kind of feel comfortable, hit their stride and be confident that they're a productive part of the team.

Scott Healy: 10:16

And so I think, knowing that everybody has things going on in their personal lives, experiences in the past that they're dealing with, I think it's also. I guess the last thing I would say is it's so easy to assume that when somebody is going through a rough stretch at work, let's say they're not delivering the way that you would hope that they would or contribute to the team. I've learned along the way that you would hope that they would or contribute to the team. I've learned along the way that you need to, before jumping to conclusions on whether they're the right fit for the team, understand what's going on in their personal lives at that time. I think it's just stepping back and trying to always put yourself in the shoes of the other person and to foster an organization that to create a culture and organization that does that and gives people the benefit of the doubt and tries to understand what's really going on before you conclude that somebody's not doing well or not the right fit.

Manya Chylinski: 11:08

Yes, and what I heard in there is that we all have different levels of compassion and maybe a natural set point, someone who's much more focused on getting the task done or building the business and I don't have time to think about this but other people more naturally think and behave in those ways, and it's a way to find a way to work together. So it's not that every single leader has to hold every single piece of the pie, but would need to be hiring people who can help with that compassionate culture. Am I hearing that right?

Scott Healy: 11:47

Yeah, 100%. And I think at the end of the day it comes down to usually it comes down to is the CEO or founder or other key leaders in the business modeling that type of behavior? And then that just flows through the organization. You kind of set the expectation for how we're going to treat people. Are we going to be kind and open to different opinions and different?

Manya Chylinski: 12:30

backgrounds and different perspectives. So that's critical drives, the culture drives the circumstances of your work life. So I guess is there a workaround to build a compassionate workplace if your leader isn't inclined to be one.

Scott Healy: 12:46

I'd say yes. I mean there's always, particularly as organizations get bigger, each team develops their own culture that hopefully is supportive of the overall culture and I think everybody that creates a company or leads a company wants to have unless you really are truly like I'm building widgets, I'm making money, I'm not building this to build like a community. I think there's. You know, every organization has its guiding values and principles that hopefully then filter down. I have seen examples of where there was toxic leadership at the top that eventually those people moved on and didn't work out and it wasn't miserable. Throughout the whole company you would have strong people leading teams or functions. That kind of ultimately set their own kind of values and how we're going to work within those.

Scott Healy: 13:49

So I think, I do think, I do think it's gonna you think about culture in general. Like culture is not well, maybe it's kind of guided from the top down. Like culture, the culture of a company is really like everybody and how it actually plays out right. You know, we're having an off-site of our business next week and we're talking about culture and how we work together and things like that, and I think it's a lot of people kind of defer to the ceo as, okay, let's set the culture, or maybe to hr, but this's like I've always firmly believed, like it's everybody from the bottom up and like we can tell you what we think the culture is, but like what the culture actually is is how we, how we work together. So I think, I do think people at all levels can set the tone and create a culture of acceptance and kindness and openness and listening that you know, even if the CEO is not very good at that.

Manya Chylinski: 14:44

Right. How important do you think it is for an organization to have a set, a stated set of values?

Scott Healy: 14:52

Yes, I do think it's important a lot of times when you see companies' values statements or a slide with a list of bullets, they're usually pretty similar and it's usually kind of motherhood and apple pie kind of stuff, yes. But that being said, I'm biased. I've been in a few companies where we were pretty open about this and direct about it. To me, the most important value is uh, or the one that can really set the tone for the business. That encompasses a lot of things is uh, the no assholes rule. Pardon the language, but it's.

Scott Healy: 15:35

You know, I do think like that. There's a lot in kind of what could be defined, you know, as under that word. But I think if you're clear, you know it doesn't matter how good you are, it doesn't matter how much you have the perfect background or the perfect expertise for what we're trying to get done. If you are jerk, you're not, you're not a fit here and that to me, and I think hopefully you do a good job of filtering out those people when you're having discussions about hiring people and interviewing and things like that.

Scott Healy: 16:11

But when you do hire somebody like that and they turn out to be that way, it sends a strong message to the organization when you get rid of those people and it's like, oh, okay, okay, that's what we really care about, you know. And so, yeah, we want to win, we want to make a lot of money, we want to build an organization that's having an impact, and it's worse, a lot, but they're willing to move on from that person because they weren't a, they weren't the right cultural fit from a just a core value standpoint. So to me that, like, like the list of you know, five or six things that are important to us and our values are, like you know, they're usually those, usually the kinds of things some of those are around, that kind of fit would, would kind of support that no assholes kind of rule, but I, um, that's one that I've always felt is really important.

Scott Healy: 16:56

I think, the other one is, if I had to have two, one would be that and then one would be clarity around kind of what is like, what is our focus on, kind of making money versus making a difference? Right, and I think you know I happen to be in a company now, psych hub that that is a for-profit business that really has a strong mission to make a difference. I was previously at a company called Carecom which was helping families find caregivers and caregivers find jobs. We had a strong mission, but we were also a for-profit business that was trying to build a profitable company. I think we would not be willing at Psych Hub and we weren't willing at Carecom, to sacrifice kind of our core values around like this has to be a pot, we have to be contributing to the mission that we were formed in pursuit of.

Scott Healy: 17:51

And so, whereas there are other companies that will do anything for, like you know, it's like if this is all about making money, it's all about building something valuable and there's, you know, there's a, there's a whole approach to that there are businesses like, yeah, like we don't really have a strong mission, we're all going to make a lot of money and then we'll use that money to do good things in the world, you know. So it doesn't mean it doesn't mean it's necessarily evil, but um, but it's just a different perspective on how you kind of focus people, and I personally gravitate towards those businesses that have a strong mission, just because I feel like you spend so much of your life immersed in that. I find it more meaningful and a more personally satisfying way to spend my time.

Manya Chylinski: 18:34

Yes, spend my time. Yes, and you were talking about how actions of the leadership and of the company reflect the values or don't reflect the values, and listeners of the podcast have heard me share a story, I believe. In the past I worked for a company that did not have a no assholes rule, and very early on in my tenure there was standing what turned out to be about an inch away from somebody who was screaming at me and spitting on me, and when I reported this and said this is inappropriate, I was told that this person was incredibly valuable to the organization and nothing was going to be done. So that was very. That told me what was important and or what wasn't important anyway, and so when I hear you say that, I think yes, because I can still see him standing right in front of me screaming at me for something, by the way, which was not really all that awful, but it wasn't really worth the effort. Yeah, which was not really all that awful.

Scott Healy: 19:39

It wasn't really worth the effort.

Manya Chylinski: 19:41

Yeah, it was not worth the effort. But so just to get at, as an employee, these actions and what you do or don't do, or say or don't say, when something like this happens, really show whatever the value is you have on the website. That's not what it's like for me as an employee.

Scott Healy: 20:04

And I think that comes back to the topic of compassionate leadership. I mean, I do think, look, we're having this offsite next week. We're getting everybody together for our beginning of year kickoff. We have a session on the agenda to talk about our, our mission, vision and values, and uh, I'm I'm honestly thinking through now how to like, how to structure that in a way that isn't just kind of going through the motions and like because, I do think, ultimately, people there's the potential for people to roll their eyes on that and what they really care about is like they watch.

Scott Healy: 20:37

They watch people in positions of leadership and say how do you actually operate and what are your priorities? And do I believe what you're telling me? And do you listen to me and like, at the end of the day, that's I'm more. That means more to me than the exercise of making sure we have the perfect set of values bullets on the wall.

Manya Chylinski: 21:07

Well, and what you get at is there can be pretty wide gulf sometimes between what someone in senior leadership says and what an employee hears. So it's also a communication issue as well, on top of having those values but finding a way to communicate them effectively.

Scott Healy: 21:32

Yeah, no, I agree, and I think, and honestly I think as we, I think it gets harder and harder. Let's just say it's so easy, in the kind of shifting world of kind of what, like changing terminology and what's okay, to kind of say something that's in unintentionally like offensive to somebody, or take, or I mean, hopefully not maybe offensive is too strong, but you know that just isn't like isn't said as diplomatically as it could be or whatever, and um, and I do think that it's. So you know, obviously, obviously DEI is a hot topic in the current news cycle. I think that ultimately, if people get to know you as a person then and know kind of your intentions, you get a lot of slack. You know if you make mistakes.

Manya Chylinski: 22:37

Absolutely, Absolutely. To me, it comes down to trust. Do I trust you? And if I trust you, then if you, you know there is that leeway. I understand that you're human and you know if you are, as a leader, someone who's willing to be vulnerable or willing to say hey, I just said this and I realized that was completely inappropriate or somehow own up to it. I think what's frustrating from the side of not being a leader is when there's that inability to even acknowledge that you've said something that could be offensive. Or again, not, not doesn't even have to be that strong of strong emotion, but just not even admitting, and I think that really erodes trust.

Scott Healy: 23:29

I agree, I think you have to be quick to apologize if you ever if you ever do inadvertently offend somebody. And I think, yeah, I think you have to be quick to apologize if you ever do inadvertently offend somebody. And I think, yeah, I think, at the end of the day, the leaders that I most admire I can think of a couple in particular that I worked with in the past they were just so good at connecting with every person in a, in a individual way, and had the had an incredible ability to remember details about people's families, their past, their career goals, what their kids were doing, like, what they you know, like what their interests were outside of work and and and. To me, that is kind of a superpower of a leader. Who, who is like, like, and I I try to do that, but I'm not as good as other people that I've seen, just because I don't have a like, a good enough like instant recall memory.

Scott Healy: 24:26

But people who can do that, like the, the people that work with and for them, like, love them Right, and, and it doesn't matter, yeah, they can do they know like okay it doesn't matter if that person used the wrong word or the wrong phrase or was particularly tough on me at a certain point, but they know, kind of at their core, that person cares about me and and uh, cares about me being happy and successful, whether it's at this place that we're working together now or kind of as I move forward in my life, beyond this, and so that I think that is like really the kind of the hallmark of a great leader is somebody that can move beyond, like what do I need out of you today or or over the next month or quarter? You know it's more's more about hey, I care about you overall as a person and we're all in this for a bigger purpose and let's do something great together in the near term.

Manya Chylinski: 25:24

Yes. How do you measure any of this? The value of being trustworthy, being vulnerable, any of this? I feel that some people argue it's not good for the business. I would argue it is, but how do you measure that?

Scott Healy: 25:47

I mean. To me, the main thing is you keep your employees. People stay at the company because they like it and they feel a connection and you have shared values. Back to the values. You've shared values on how you want to be treated and how you think it's right to treat other people. And you know I think there are things that companies do like you know, measure your ENPS scores and you know. But I think it mostly comes down to do people stay and do they recommend the company, do they bring lots of referrals and I think you know, longer term, I think a great indicator of success is as people move on to other things, do they? And do those employees gravitate towards working together and working for the same leader again?

Scott Healy: 26:44

And so but I think that you know, ultimately retaining your good people leads to better results, right, and so I think it does have a clear positive impact on the business. It makes it easier to recruit. You know you have more people bringing high quality people that they've worked with in the past to the business. So to me it's more about is it a place that people want to stay at? I think it's also just. I think there's also less drama If you have a. When you have a organization like that and people are on the same wavelength and they trust each other and and ultimately believe in general, people are in this for not only their own well-being but for the well-being of the people around them. That like like there's less, there's less, uh, fewer factions there, there aren't cliques, there's less distracting drama. You can get more done. You can be more successful in what you're actually trying to do together, whatever the goal is of the organization.

Scott Healy: 27:46

One interesting thing, just a story from Carecom actually, which I felt had a really strong culture and good people. Uh, we, we did have the issue of people with very different cultural backgrounds. We had a tech team that was largely had immigrated to the us from india and because it was. They had all worked together in a previous company. They kind of came, came over as a group and then they brought in and it was on the plus side, like those people liked it, and they brought in a lot of their friends and previous colleagues. And so the way the company evolved we didn't have like we were diverse as a company but we were not diverse between groups. We had like, literally our tech team was 90% people from India who had immigrated to the US. Other teams were less so and what happened over time was like those, the tech team all hung out together and played cricket together on the weekends and you know, and other people did their own things on teams. And so we did what was a, which was a controversial and not broadly like liked move. But instead of having teams sit together and this is when we were all in the office instead of having teams sit together, we every six months did a massive shuffle of the entire office and no teams actually sat together.

Scott Healy: 29:10

So we went for the first couple of years of the company where we were structured like a normal business where you know you want to be able to like, turn to the person next to you, you're working on a project on or a project with, and we just blew that up and made it so that you were sitting next to somebody that hadn't like. We consciously tried to make it so you're sitting next to somebody that was as different from you as possible from both background, kind of work, focus, maybe, personality, and so it wasn't random, it was. You know, we tried to force people that were different and maybe, and honestly, well, there wasn't a ton of conflict. There were some people that didn't get along and if, and they usually ended up sitting next to each other for the next six months and, and honestly, people complained about it because they would rather sit with their friends or sit with people. It's like, well, it'd be more convenient.

Scott Healy: 30:00

I'm working on this project with this person all the time. Can't I sit next to him? We're like, nope, nope, we're doing this to make sure we have kind of a broadly inclusive and accepting culture and trying to break down barriers and things like that. So it was interesting and overall it had pros and cons, but I think it was a net positive in terms of creating a culture where people understood other people's perspectives and generally again had that kind of broad mutual trust where it might not have happened otherwise.

Manya Chylinski: 30:30

Wow, I can imagine some pros and cons to that, but what a neat experiment to help people expand their thinking and their connections. Well, scott, we are close to the end of our time and wanted to ask you you know we are in a particular political and social and business climate right now, but, as you're thinking about compassionate leadership, what is still giving you hope these days?

Scott Healy: 31:04

I am a believer that, yeah, you know, if you, just, if you watch the news too much these days, it can maybe reduce your hope. The news too much these days, it can maybe reduce your hope. But I think, at the end of the day, people want to, they want community, they want to build relationships. Most people don't want to live in a transactional world and while I think it feels like we're moving to at least the current cycles seems to be focusing on, it's less about making everybody feel welcome, it's more about how do we, you know, how do we become a meritocracy, an extreme meritocracy, how do we make sure it's fairness based on who's most fit for a job, or you know? I mean however you want to define it. But I think ultimately, people want connection, they want community. I think there's, I think there's a risk of community moving to be more tribal, you know, and there's clearly people, most people gravitate towards people who are like them.

Scott Healy: 32:13

I just think that in companies and I can see this in the way things are evolving, potentially in the political climate now that it becomes a little soulless, and I think eventually most people wake up and say, like, what am I doing here?

Scott Healy: 32:30

You know, like?

Scott Healy: 32:31

Do I like having conflict in my, in my life regularly, or do I like, do I like being in an environment where I feel like I'm building relationships, where I'm helping other people, where I'm making a positive difference in the world and I I guess I'm hopeful that ultimately, that's what most people want and and that while there are, you know, for political ambitions or professional ambitions or other reasons, some people kind of plow through that I think, ultimately, the companies that are going to be most successful are the ones that care about people.

Scott Healy: 33:08

Actually, I don't know if you saw this, I saw that Costco came out the other day kind of defending their DEI practices and saying how positive an impact it was having on their business results and it's a critical part of their business. I mean, they're, I think, a good example of a company where employees you know I'm not super close to it, but my perception is like employees like working there and they've been incredibly successful right, and I think there's there are enough examples like that that I hold out hope that those are the companies and organizations that are going to rise to the top over time yes, exactly.

Manya Chylinski: 33:44

Oh, thank you for sharing that and, before we go, tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and and how they can learn more about you and your work.

Scott Healy: 33:53

Yeah, great, my background is in. I've done a lot of early stage businesses Over the last 20 years or so, more focused on mission-driven businesses. I kind of learned along the way that, as I said earlier, I really want to be part of and focus my time on organizations that are solving problems for the world. So I mentioned Carecom before. That was a company that I helped start and took to. It's now the largest marketplace for family care in the world.

Scott Healy: 34:27

And after Carecom I got into healthcare education and got exposed to the world of mental health and started increasingly, from both firsthand and my family and close friends, kind of like seeing how pervasive mental health issues and struggles are for almost all of us and decided to really dive in and focus the next days of my career there.

Scott Healy: 34:54

So I met former Congressman Patrick Kennedy and his co-founder of the company that I'm at, psych Hub, named Marjorie Morrison, who's a therapist by training but really a mental health-focused entrepreneur, and I joined them to basically take the baton from Marjorie to lead Psych Hub. And Psych Hub is a business that is focused on basically helping to drive better mental health outcomes through spreading science-based, evidence-based practices both to practitioners in the mental health space but also to individuals who are trying to understand, kind of, what am I dealing with, what is my loved one dealing with and how can I help them? So, psych Hub we actually recently launched at psychhubcom, a care navigation service where people can go take a wellbeing assessment, kind of understand, okay, what am I dealing with, what's my level of severity of what I'm dealing with? And, based on that, like, what are options that I should consider? And so so it's worth checking out. It's something that we, you know, strongly, strongly supports our mission of helping both consumers and practitioners achieve better outcomes together in the world of mental health.

Manya Chylinski: 36:07

Oh, that's great. Thank you for doing that and we're going to put a link to that in the show notes so people can to make it easier for people to find it. Scott, thank you so much for this that. And we're going to put a link to that in the show notes so people can to make it easier for people to find it. Scott, thank you so much for this conversation. I've really enjoyed talking with you.

Scott Healy: 36:20

You too, man. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's great to be here. Appreciate it.

Manya Chylinski: 36:26

Thank you for listening. I'm Manya Chylinski. I help organizations build compassionate, resilient teams that thrive by creating environments where well-being is at the core. Often, people reach out to me during times of crisis or significant change, but the truth is that building a healthier, more supportive workplace can prevent issues before they arise and empower your teams to thrive no matter what challenges come their way. If you're ready to make a meaningful change, I'd love to connect. If you haven't already done so, please subscribe, rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcast or your listening platform of choice. It really helps others find us, and if you'd like to continue the conversation, connect with me on LinkedIn or visit my website, www. manyachylinski. com. Thank you for being part of this journey with me.