140: Leading Through Compassion, with Hussein Hallak

What if everything you thought you knew about leadership was based on an illusion? 

Hussein Hallak takes us on a remarkable journey from his childhood in Syria—where entrepreneur wasn't even a word in Arabic—to becoming a successful company founder who learned the hard way that command-and-control leadership doesn't work.

Hussein admits he was once horrible to work with, until he discovered that true leadership means raising others up rather than asserting dominance. His transformation reveals how compassionate leadership creates organizational environments where innovation thrives. He challenges the fundamental premise that we can control our organizations, our teams, or even ourselves, and explains how our desperate attempts to maintain control actually sabotage our ability to adapt and grow. 

He reveals that these principles aren't new-age management theories but ancient wisdom about human psychology that we've temporarily forgotten during the industrial age. As he puts it, "That's how tribes work, that's how we work for a longer time." In returning to these collaborative roots, modern organizations can outpace competitors still clinging to outdated hierarchies.

Ready to transform your approach to leadership? Listen to discover how compassionate leadership can revolutionize your organization while honoring the fundamental human need for meaning, connection, and contribution.

Hussein Hallak is the CEO of Next Decentrum, a founder, entrepreneur, and strategist dedicated to helping people and organizations find clarity in complexity and build lasting impact. He is the author of The Dark Art of Life Mastery, a guide for living fearlessly, second-guessing less, and embracing true purpose.

Website:  husseinhallak.com
Substack: husseinhallak.substack.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/husseinhallak 

Go to https://betterhelp.com/resilience or click Notes on Resilience during sign up for 10% off your first month of therapy with my sponsor BetterHelp.

Chapters

• 0:00 Leadership Through Collaboration
• 9:56 From Syria to Entrepreneurship
• 16:09 Compassion in Leadership
• 23:09 Boundaries vs Policies
• 28:02 The Illusion of Control
• 32:58 Measuring Compassionate Leadership
• 33:37 Finding Hope in Human Nature

Transcript

Hussein Hallak: 1:15

What leadership is about is to actually help involve people in creating a goal, and now that they've involved in something, they're more likely to contribute to it, and that is what collaboration is. That's how tribes work, that's how we work for a longer time. It's just that for a period of time, I think in the last, let's say, few hundred years, with monarchies and with the industrial age and capitalism, we kind of forgot about that.

Manya Chylinski: 1:45

Hello and welcome to Notes on Resilience. I'm your host, manya Chylinski. My guest today is Hussein Halak. He's a founder, entrepreneur and a strategist who is dedicated to helping people and organizations find clarity in complexity and build lasting impact, and he is also the author of the Dark Art of Life Mastery, a guide for living fearlessly, second-guessing less and embracing true purpose. And we talked about compassion, control, collaboration. I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. Thank you for being here, hussein. I'm so excited to talk with you today. Thank you for having me Me too. So, to get us started, what is one thing that you've done in any area of your life that you never thought you would do?

Hussein Hallak: 2:40

That's a lot of them, but I think one of the things that I've done that I never thought I would even kind of reach or consider is to lead a company. I had no concept of that while being even in my 20s. We don't have something called an entrepreneur in the in the Arabic language, actually and I grew up in Syria, where we don't have, let's say, capitalism. We don't have people starting companies, exiting companies, building companies, and nobody's known for that. You're known for your profession and usually you're either a doctor or engineer or you don't matter, so all my life is about becoming a doctor. I mean, I wanted to become other things, like a scientist, an astronaut, but I've never thought ever that I would be leading companies, building companies as a way of being.

Manya Chylinski: 3:38

Right, oh, that's so interesting. The where you grew up, that just wasn't even something that was on your radar screen. Yeah, so interesting. Okay, well, I'm curious what? What got you into leading a company then? How did you even end up doing that?

Hussein Hallak: 3:54

while I was in university I I wanted to make money to pay for myself Because we didn't have that much money. My parents were employees, my mom was a teacher. My father was employed in the government, the Ministry of Tourism. He was head of the press office there. So they got paid like $100 each, which means that early in the 80s that was good, but in the 90s that wasn't good In Syria. $100 in Syria doesn't get you much. Even as an engineer I got paid $100 as well. So very, very little pay.

Hussein Hallak: 4:35

So I wanted to make money. So I actually went around and asked friends if I can work as a designer because I used to draw. So that's what I thought. And I started working as a freelance designer and by the time I graduated I had a friend of the family asked me to join in with him and he said I have an office. He was an engineer. He did like consulting. He said I have an office, come join, let's do the work together. And that's how I started. We did like marketing consults. We launched a few competitions on Nationwide and it became like the first company. And then after that I started. Another person asked me.

Hussein Hallak: 5:18

So the companies I started at the very beginning were not like you know. Oh, I need to start a company. A friend of mine asked me hey, we let's build a company. You know that build websites, there's an opportunity. So we did that, that we build a company that build websites as games online. And that was the first company that was acquired. We built it.

Hussein Hallak: 5:37

We built the first website for a company that is like the Disney of the Middle East. They're called space tune and they love the work. And they said Okay, we will take the whole team in. And they gave me a job in Dubai and that led to the job in Dubai for three months to six months was fine. Then the person who architected the deal left and nobody knew what to do with me. So I jumped around from one team to the other helping them start their company, because I used to do. I used to be very good in English and Arabic, very good writer and very good I have visual kind of creative skills, so I would build their presentations and I read a lot of business books just out of curiosity. I was able to help them with the strategy. So I ended up helping them to build 10 companies within that company and that was the launch I was like this is good, I like that. And after two years of that I researched and I found out that that's called entrepreneurship.

Manya Chylinski: 6:35

Absolutely. It's classic entrepreneurship. It's so wonderful that you stumbled on it in such an organic way and now you're a CEO and you think about things like complexity and what it means to be a leader, and compassion and all of these kind of topics. So let's dive into. What do you think of the concept of compassion in an organizational, through an organizational lens, for me.

Hussein Hallak: 7:07

I think at first I was a bad leader. Let's put it this way. When I worked with people, I was more into the leadership that I know what needs to be done and I'm more educated or better suited and you need to listen to me. That didn't go well, mainly because a lot of times what ends up happening is I don't know what's happening, I don't know everything, and you suppress the people around you and they don't have creative outlets or ways to participate, and to the point that even my brother didn't want to work with me anymore. He worked with me at the earliest stages. He said listen, I like you and everything, but it's horrible to work with you. Oh no, I did a lot of reading and I did, I kind of explored even more and I found out that the reading and I kind of explored even more and I found out that the best approach to kind of become a leader is to raise people around you.

Hussein Hallak: 8:05

So for me, compassion comes from understanding, empathy, looking at where do others fit and what do they really want for themselves and how do I align this with the organizational goals? So for me, everyone I work with, I ask them what do they want for their lives Like forget work. If you had all the time and money in the world, what would you go after? And I try to see elements in that that aligns with the work, not through manipulation. I try to find it and if I don't find it, I tell them.

Hussein Hallak: 8:38

I say, listen, I really like what you can bring, but I don't see that this job or working with us will actually lead you to what you want. And if I see it, I say, oh, so you want this. So I see that if you do X, y, z with us, this will help you, this will progress you forward and this may bring you closer to what you want. And if they see it as well, I see that as the best approach to leadership that I've experienced, because what ends up happening is people contribute to the work because they feel they're contributing to themselves and they feel they're contributing to their own journey. So that's how I see it Compassion, empathy is really about connecting with people and connecting to what they want for themselves and seeing how you can harness that so that they see working together as a way to advance them and advance their journey in life.

Manya Chylinski: 10:01

Okay, I want to come work for you. By the way, that sounds like such a wonderful environment where people feel supported, and that you actually ask them about themselves, and I like what you said about you know that leadership is raising up the people around you and not simply saying I know more, I learned this, I know more. I feel like we have a lot of places where the leader is. I know more, I learned this, I know more. I feel like we have a lot of places where the leader is. I know more, I've been educated, I've done this and they aren't focused on that raising people up. What is it you think they're misunderstanding?

Hussein Hallak: 10:40

I think a lot of times it's easier If I want to steel man their argument, which means like kind of take their position at the best case scenario which I was as well. I was a bad leader before. I think it's always easier and faster to say to work with what you see. So if I see a path, then let's go at it, as opposed to dealing with the uncertainty of, well, I don't know what's going to come up if I raise the issue with the team because they might choose a path that I'm not comfortable with or I feel my skills don't contribute. So we love control, we love certainty, so we head that way. And that is, I think, why we say oh okay, it's my way, or the highway, because my way is certain, I know what I contribute to it and you have to align with it, you have to push it forward and maybe because the leader was successful before, I was very successful in the first attempts and the first companies that I've done. So it actually gave me hubris, it gave me the feeling that I'm invincible, which led to my biggest failure as well. But I've learned and it requires humility, but it also requires that I like to see it less of a personal trait and more of a desire to succeed trait. So I love winning and I love to succeed. So if I love that more than I love to make myself happy or make myself satisfied, I'll be more committed to raising the people and exploring the opportunity that will help me win.

Hussein Hallak: 12:16

In fact, just a few days ago I was sitting with my partner and I was talking to her. She's my partner in business so I was saying, if I get your attention on this matter, I know we're going to win. And I was spending hours just talking about how to align our objectives because I know she brings so much power. And I was telling her that without you we will fail, because I know I can bring certain skills but we miss your skills. So if you're focused on something else, we will not win.

Hussein Hallak: 12:48

So I was very much willing or committed to success and winning as a team, to the point that I was willing to try again and again and again and pleading kind of to a certain extent, which is not comfortable as a leader. As a leader, you want to come in and say do this, do that it's easier, it's faster. As a leader, you want to come in and say do this, do that. It's easier, it's faster, but the most, I would say, successful route is when you work with others and try to help them see where they can add value. And it takes time, by the way, a lot of people don't see that. So the path that takes time and it's difficult but leads to more success, I'm willing to do the effort for that.

Manya Chylinski: 13:24

Right and something you said early on is that we want certainty. So as an employee, as a manager, as a leader, doesn't matter where you are in the organization. We want that sense of certainty and I can see the tendency to kind of pushing things in that direction of this is the way that I know, because none of us likes change. Even good change is so difficult. What role do you think policies or procedures or some structures within the organization plays in supporting that kind of environment?

Hussein Hallak: 14:02

The more I think there are people in the company I remember when we started becoming like six or seven and growing from there the more you need some sort of boundaries, some sort of agreements. I like to call them more boundaries and agreements rather than policies and procedures. Of course, at big companies, you get to a point where there are certain things that are entrenched. The reason I like to call them boundaries and agreements is that agreements have the mentality or the perception that it's something we agree on. Policies sound like they're coming from top to bottom. This is our policies and this is what you need to follow. Agreements is more like here's what we agreed on as a team, and it allows for redesign. We can always redesign and rewrite the agreements if things change, because an organization is as changeable and as constantly growing as the people in it. So if we have agreements in place and we have boundaries, we set those boundaries like these things we don't do, these things we don't breach. I think that creates a safe space for people to operate.

Hussein Hallak: 15:14

Now, a lot of things have been said about safe places and people talk about that, but safe spaces, I like to see them in different ways. As human beings, we're always geared to find safety. The reason is our brains evolved millions of years ago where there were predators everywhere. There's danger everywhere. So our brains are geared and designed to look for safety and to protect us. So if there is no safety and we perceive there's no safety our brains will act as if a predator is right there going to eat us or we're going to die. So that's because it's really the difference between death and life. But in modern society there isn't that much danger. That way You're not going to die.

Hussein Hallak: 16:00

Somebody screams at you yes, it's not comfortable, it's obviously a breach of your boundary, but you're not going to die. But our brain treats it like that. So when we create those boundaries in such a way that you perceive the place where you work as a safe space, where you can voice your opinion without being attacked or without being told you're an idiot or something like that, maybe even if the culture allows it, but you actually have that space so that you can share and you know that you're constructive and you know that you're all working towards a certain goal, that safety, those boundaries and agreements that create safe space, allow for people to flourish and to give their all, because they have nothing to hold back because they're not putting up their shields and defenses, and that is what I think these things can establish. So I recommend going from policies and procedures towards boundaries and agreements. I love that.

Manya Chylinski: 16:54

And workplace has many roles in society and in our lives, but it is a community, and it's a community of people who are focused on a shared goal, whatever the company does. And as you were talking, I realized we've got organizations that like yours, for example, that set boundaries and agreements and say, hey, we're all in this together, and then we have others that seem to almost be adversarial, us versus them. We've got the management layer and then the worker B layer where sometimes it feels like there are policies and procedures and there are no agreements, and it is that the management needs to somehow exert control.

Hussein Hallak: 17:37

I think this is something we inherited from the industrial age, the industrial age. So the corporation has started at a time where hierarchy is very important for control, because if you have a lot of workers and they have, let's say, specific tasks, you want them to do those specific tasks. You don't want a worker, let's say, that is responsible for putting a bolt in, to be creative, because then that will produce something different. We've evolved from there and the corporation today is judged and kind of seen and valued based on the innovation, on the progress it makes, the products that it innovates. And we see that coming up, let's say, with organizations like Google, like Apple, and the different kind of architectures and structures that they try to do to bring up human kind of performance. And we haven't been geared as people to work with large groups of people or to manage large groups of people. It's very hard because unless there are certain hierarchies and certain outlets and channels, it becomes very disruptive if people are not used to it. So I think we're still learning and I think new organizations are constantly breaking those barriers that were established before because they need to create innovation for a new era, because they need to create innovation for a new era that the rules that we wrote 10 years ago, even two years ago, do not work. I mean, how the organizations function before COVID, before the pandemic, is different than today.

Hussein Hallak: 19:18

How do you manage a remote team? Funny enough, my first team was remote in 2003. I ran a remote team and so when the pandemic came, it was like oh, very familiar place. My first team was remote in 2003. I ran a remote team and so when pandemic came, it was like oh, very familiar place. So I think these are things that we constantly need to evolve and that's why good leaders are constantly obsessed with the idea, not just who, the people that I choose. How can I structure the organization in such a way that I can let them become the most creative, the most innovative, the most contributive to the progress of the organization? And that may require that you change how we used to do things. Right.

Manya Chylinski: 19:57

Absolutely Well. Something you talk about, too, is letting go of the illusion of control. So that's both on a personal level and on an organizational level. We actually can't control all the things we think we can.

Hussein Hallak: 20:12

Yeah, we can't control anything actually.

Manya Chylinski: 20:15

Wait what.

Hussein Hallak: 20:17

Yeah, I mean. The idea is that there is I call it also there's something I talk about, which is mind the gap, the gap between what is and our perception of what is. So we have a perception, you know, we have a perception of control and we establish that through. You know, these procedures and policies and approaches doing work and in some areas we need control. For example, in accounting, we need to control certain things and certain things need to come in certain ways. There are certain practices that have established standards for a certain reason because they need to work. Our accounting needs to work with the taxes, because we need to submit them, so they need to be submitted based on those standards.

Hussein Hallak: 20:56

Outside those kind of practices, when it comes to building products, when it comes to approaching markets, growth, these kinds of things, leadership, those kinds of things can be ways where we can explore what would be more effective rather than what can I actually control? Because even if you establish control for a while, control is so elusive to the point that one thing goes, unlike you expected, what would happen is you will lose that control and then you're busy trying to establish control again. So, while you're busy establishing control and asserting your leadership. The market has moved on and you've lost opportunity, whereas if you are open to the idea that, listen, I can't control anything and I'm almost everything is uncertain, let me train myself to work with that, to work with the reality of uncertainty, that doesn't mean you need to like it. I'm not saying control is bad, by the way. I'm just saying control is an illusion. It doesn't exist.

Hussein Hallak: 21:55

I love control, don't get me wrong. I love to control everything like I control. I mean, even now we have chat, ppt or, let's say, ai, and I hate it when it does something that I didn't ask it to do. Yes, I know, I wanted to do exactly what I wanted, and I even found myself sometimes talking to it and saying why did you do that? I have to repeat myself again. You're a machine. You should do exactly what I said. Even machines can listen to us. So we love control, but we have to get comfortable with uncertainty. We have to be able to practice that and be able to navigate that, because that's the reality of things and that's what will make us more effective is when we deal with reality and train ourselves to be more comfortable with it.

Manya Chylinski: 22:43

Right, absolutely. And just as an aside, I have said, typed many of those things into chat GPT. Why did you do that? That's not what I asked you to do. You always do this wrong when I ask you to do it.

Hussein Hallak: 22:57

Oh my God, yes.

Manya Chylinski: 22:58

So I'm glad to know I'm not the only one giving them that input. So you know, as you were talking about the concept of control, and certainly some things need to be standardized and there need to be some ways to do them I was started to think about measurement and metrics and one question I get a lot when I talk about the concept of compassion leadership is well, how would I measure that? And I'm curious, you know, in your own organization, what have you seen works to measure and make sure you're doing those? You're doing that compassion piece. You're doing the boundaries, not policies piece.

Hussein Hallak: 23:39

The best measurement method or framework that I've used so far and I've seen the most effective, is OKRs, objectives and Key Results. The reason I like it very much and the reason I think it works is because it gives goals and hard things that you're going after and it gives space for people to execute and be creative in how they execute. So with objectives and key results, you set an objective and you set an objective for the organization, then you set objectives for each department, then you set objectives for each person and then inside that there is key results Key results that will lead to the objective. So, let's say, you say we want to achieve a million dollars in sales this year. What are the key results that lead to that and that may be? Key result number one we get, let's say, 10 clients. Key result number two we produce, let's say, three new products, key results, et cetera. So you have those. So you know each time you hit a key result you're on your way to your objective. So you don't have to say, instead of, as opposed to let's say, our goal is a million dollars, that means, let's say, we divide it by months.

Hussein Hallak: 24:50

Month number one we need to get 100,000. Month number two, because it doesn't quite work like that. It's not linear. We have to deal with the nature of growth, and growth is never linear. You don't grow like this. You don't grow consistently in additive ways. Sometimes you work for three months and then you see the breakthrough after three months. And without these three months, if you were to measure it, it was like nothing's happening on the objective.

Hussein Hallak: 25:17

But the key results you're hitting and the approach itself, or the framework itself, works by working with people. So the way you develop objectives and key results is you actually do them with the team. You don't decide them on your own and say here's your objective and key results. So you say I'm the leader, here's the objective for the organization and I think these are the key results we need to hit. What do you think guys? How does that translate into your department? So you bring in the department heads and they set the objectives and then you have a negotiation. It's like oh, do you think? Why do you think this will lead to this? And by the time you set it for the organization and there are softwares to help you manage that if the organization is very big or even if it's small what ends up happening is everybody has set those and they have a measurement. They go to that software and they say, well, here I progressed. I have, let's say a salesperson would say part of my key results. Do, let's say, 100 meetings. I'm 20 meetings into it. So, overall, you can at any time look at the dashboard and see how we're progressing towards that and also you will learn.

Hussein Hallak: 26:22

If, let's say, you hit all the key results and you don't hit the objective, what ends up happening is you can or you see that you're not heading towards the objectives, you're not actually impacting the organizational ones. You might negotiate, and you should. Every three months or every couple of months, you negotiate with the team. It's like, hey, we achieved those things, but we seem not to be heading that way. Is there something we're missing? So it's a framework that allows for the constant conversation and the constant collaboration between the team. That's why I love it so much and I applied it with one of the most successful companies that I've worked with.

Hussein Hallak: 26:58

We applied it and within one year we five times the revenue of the year before and we got oversubscribed for our investment and the team has never worked better. And it was a response, a direct response. It took us six months to apply it and to roll it out, because it takes time you need. You cannot just roll it out in one month and expect everybody to change how they do things. But what we did is we solved the idea of the leader trying to, every time, you know, push for doing things and feeling that they have to push everyone. With this, everybody got relaxed, everybody focused on their work and we did this meeting on a regular basis with the department heads, with the leader, and saying where are we? Is there any area that we need to target? It also aligns.

Hussein Hallak: 27:43

One last thing I want to say. It aligns with this there's a book called the Goal and I think it's called the Theory of Constraints and what it talks about. It talks about dividing the product into different elements and you look for something called the bottlenecks, the bottlenecks in the system, and you focus on the bottleneck. Everybody. When they want to enhance the work, what they do is they enhance everything. So let's say that you're a salesperson. You want to increase your sales, you increase the number of calls, you try to increase your closure, you try to increase everything, whereas if you actually focus on the constraint and the bottleneck, you find out where am I doing well and where is actually? Where is the bottleneck? And then when you solve the bottleneck you move to the other bottleneck and that way it helps you focus your energy on one thing you need to solve and then it enhances the whole system without having to enhance every element of the system. So I found it very helpful. Both of them kind of combined that way.

Manya Chylinski: 28:40

Well, thank you for sharing that, and I appreciate the focus on collaboration, so that this is something that a lot of advocates say and something that I definitely say, which is nothing about us without us. So, the top down, we're telling you this is what you need to do, versus the yeah, we're the leadership, but we want to know what matters to you and what works with the way that you work and all of these things, and it doesn't mean that everything has to be squishy or free form, but it just means you're actually listening to the folks that the decisions are impacting. If I may add, to that.

Hussein Hallak: 29:21

A lot of people sometimes think of this as like in their world, airy fairy, new kind of things, whereas it's actually very, very ancient wisdom. If you read the Art of War, for example, he speaks a lot that people will participate in what the people help to choose and create. So it's about understanding human psychology, which is as ancient as we are. It's more understanding today rather than let's say it's a new thing. It's never a new thing Psychology. If you approach people and try to work with them where they are, you're far likely to get to your results rather than, let's say, doing something new. That's why con artists are very successful, because what they do is they tell you what you want to hear.

Hussein Hallak: 30:06

Now, I'm not assuming that that's how leadership is, but what leadership is about is to actually help involve people in creating a goal, and now that they've involved in something, they're more likely to contribute to it, and that is what collaboration is. That's how tribes work, that's how we work. For a longer time. It's just that for a period of time, I think in the last, let's say, few hundred years, with monarchies and with the industrial age and capitalism, we kind of forgot about that and school and the entrenchment of hierarchy, kind of there's democracy, you know, in government but there's no democracy in the workplace, which is completely flawed.

Hussein Hallak: 30:47

The collaboration if we remove the word democracy, just collaborative work is far more effective, far more productive. And you see, the companies, the startups, that actually include some of that and play on that. They are far more innovative and far faster than any other company that, let's say, even the bigger ones. What is it? I think Starbucks took like 30 years to get the billion dollar valuation. Now, companies, within two years they get a billion dollar valuation. And we're not talking about the hyped companies, like even companies that are not hyped that work together. They get really fast to result, which is what you want to do.

Manya Chylinski: 31:28

Right, absolutely, hussein. We're getting very close to the end of our time. To wrap us up, what is giving you hope these days?

Hussein Hallak: 31:38

What's giving me hope is the human nature as human beings, while we look around and we see I'm writing a secret. I'm writing a book about, actually, the types of leadership, the types of leaders that we see today, especially in political leadership, and like the more, I would say, influential leaders, even in industry, and the type of leaders that are abusing people, let's say, or abusing their source of power. But if you look across the board, at peopleusing people, let's say, or abusing their source of power, but if you look across the board at people, regular people, regular people, are far, far better than our perception. What's rising to the surface is we see all of these manifestations of the worst of us, but if we look at people and what people are doing and where people are leaning, if you look at the polls and what people are, let's say, prefer and how they're seeing those leaders, you will get very, very hopeful.

Hussein Hallak: 32:35

Not to do a knock of someone that I don't like at all, has been voted as one of the most hated people, more than Netanyahu, more than Trump in America, which gives me hope because people can see through the lies, the media and everything. So, and this is a very good cautionary tale from someone who a few years ago he was seen as the Iron man and was one of the most highly rated business leaders. Everybody thought of him as the person going to take us to Mars, everything, and now they think of him differently. So that gives me hope because people can see through. Not because they don't like Musk that's separate from that which I like, that's my personal indulgence but because people, regardless of all the media capture I mean the man has one of the largest media platforms and he's everywhere and he has a lot of power and money the richest man in the world but people can see through that and that gives me hope that, as human beings, if our nature is collaborative, our nature is good.

Hussein Hallak: 33:42

I don't like the idea of good and evil, but I mean good as in, principled good. I don't like the idea of good, of evil, but I mean like good as in, like principled good. You know, we refer to those principles. We want to live and let live. We want to collaborate and build a better world, which gives me hope for the future and which gives me hope that new leaders will arrive from this vacuum of leadership and they will lead us, take us to the next better world that we're supposed to live in and I'm very, very helpful of that.

Manya Chylinski: 34:08

Well, thank you for sharing that. That gives me hope as well, hearing how you think about it. And, hussein, we just have to wrap up now, but before we go, can you please share with our listeners a little bit more about yourself and what you do and how they can reach you?

Hussein Hallak: 34:24

Absolutely so. I am an entrepreneur, I build companies for a living and I work with other companies, so I love doing that. I love mentoring entrepreneurs and I launched my book, which is the Dark Art of Life Mastery, and it talks about how you can lead your life in the most amazing way, enjoy a great life through the power of choice, the power of living in the moment. So you can find me at husseinhallak. com and you can find my book on everywhere that you can find books. Just search the name or you can search me on Google and you will see my picture everywhere.

Manya Chylinski: 34:56

Excellent. Thank you, Hussein. I'm going to put links to all those in the show notes to make it easier for folks to find you. Thank you so much for joining me today, Hussein. It was a great conversation.

Hussein Hallak: 35:07

Thank you for having me Great questions and, as always, great conversing with you as well.

Manya Chylinski: 35:11

And thank you to our listeners for listening into this episode and we will see you next time.