147: Designing Work For Every Mind, with Travis Hollman

Work should feel human, not like a daily battle with noise, sameness, and stress. 

We sit down with Travis Hollman, CEO of Hollman Inc. and founder of MeSpace, to unpack how neuroinclusive design, compassionate leadership, and AI can transform focus, creativity, and retention. 

Travis shares his personal journey with dyslexia and ADHD, then connects it to a bold but practical vision: give people control over their environment, measure real cognitive gains, and build a culture that celebrates difference.

We discuss why open offices compromise attention and dignity, and how customizable private spaces can boost measurable cognitive output by 26%—for both neurodiverse and neurotypical teammates. Travis explains how AI transforms idea-first thinkers into clear communicators by eliminating the friction of formatting and spelling, allowing teams to tackle more complex problems more efficiently.

This conversation is packed with takeaways for founders, managers, and HR leaders: design for brains, not trends; align words and actions to earn trust in a world where everyone has a voice; and consider how higher productivity could fund a four-day workweek without sacrificing results. 

If you care about workplace culture, retention, and real performance—not just slide decks—this one will challenge how you think about space, tools, and leadership.

Travis Hollman is the CEO and owner of Hollman, Inc., the world’s leading manufacturer of locker solutions, and founder of MeSpace, a workspace design company creating modern, customizable workstations for neurodiverse professionals. Overcoming childhood challenges with Legg-Perthes disease and severe dyslexia, he now leverages his personal journey to inspire innovation and inclusivity in the workplace. Passionate about giving back, he serves on the Board for The Family Place and Big Brothers Big Sisters of Greater Dallas, and he co-founded The Hollman Family Foundation with his wife, Stephanie.

Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!
Start for FREE

Chapters

• 0:00 Attitude And Leadership Set The Tone
• 1:36 Meet Travis Holman And His Mission
• 4:40 Parenting, Neurodiversity, And Perspective
• 7:40 From “Open Office” To Neurofriendly Spaces
• 12:40 AI As A Force Multiplier For Neurodiverse Talent
• 16:20 Compassion And Culture Through Real Stories
• 19:55 Hiring For Difference, Not Just Fit
• 23:55 Joy At Work: Celebration And Belonging
• 28:15 Retention Risks When Culture Lags

Transcript

Travis Hollman: 0:00

I mean, first thing you got to do in your business is walk in with a with a good attitude. Because if you own the company or the leader of the business, everybody's looking to see how the boss walks in in the morning. Is he or she happy? Is she mad? Is he what's going on? So you gotta, as a leader, you gotta walk in with a great attitude.

Manya Chylinski: 0:22

Hello and welcome to Notes on Resilience. I'm your host, Manya Chylinski. My guest today is Travis Hollman. He's the CEO and owner of Hollman Inc., the world's leading manufacturer of locker solutions and the founder of MeSpace, which is a workspace design company creating spaces for neurodiverse professionals. We talked about neuroinclusion, compassion in the workforce, and what makes a really joyous workplace. I think you're really going to enjoy this conversation. Travis, I'm so excited we're talking today. Thank you for being here.

Travis Hollman: 1:02

Thanks for having me.

Manya Chylinski: 1:03

First question, everyone gets this this year. What is one thing you have done in any area of your life that you never imagined you would do?

Travis Hollman: 1:13

I this is gonna sound really dumb, but um I've done a lot of crazy stuff. But having two boys, I thought children change your world and they change your outlook on everything from work to play. But I always thought I'd have girls. Um, I always thought I'd have kids, but I thought I always thought they'd be girls. I didn't get a I didn't get one girl. Um, I got two boys, and it's been a uh a lot of fun, a lot of challenge, a lot of but a lot of fun.

Manya Chylinski: 1:38

Yeah. Oh, that's great. Yes, even if you want kids, you can't really shape what what that's gonna look like when it happens.

Travis Hollman: 1:46

So no, you you just you get what you get, and I'll tell you, free everybody has kids. They're just so different. It's it's amazing they came from the same mom and dad. You know what I mean? It's just amazing. Like, wow, you guys uh wow. Um, anyway, they're fun. Going to two football games tonight, so watch both of them play. It's gonna be fun. The my oldest one wants to kill it and have the best time ever and wants to be a pro football player. And the other one, his favorite support is fishing, so he just wants to be out there with his buddies, and I don't think he cares if he even plays and he just loves everybody. There's just different, it's so fun.

Manya Chylinski: 2:24

Yeah. That must just be so interesting as a parent to see the difference in your kids like that.

Travis Hollman: 2:32

Yeah, it's really interesting. I've got one that's uh neurodiverse, and you know, so he's had some struggles and he's doing great now, and the other one is not, and he didn't have any struggles, and he's getting older and he's having struggles, and some of us it's just overcome challenges and uh you know adversity, and it's it's they do it in a different way. And right when you think you got one going on a good path, like the the oldest one wasn't giving dad hugs, and then he just turned 16. I think because dad pays his uh his um gas bill. I get hugs now, and the well, the one that turned 14 was a lover, and he's now doesn't want anything to do with any hugging anymore. So it's at least one wants to hug me.

Manya Chylinski: 3:10

Yes, you take it when you can get it, absolutely. Uh well, you actually mentioned something that is you and I are going to be talking about, which is neurodiversity, and that's something you think about is neurodiversity and neuroinclusion in the workplace. And that aligns with my wanting to talk about compassion in the workplace. And how? I mean, why is it important that we have neurofriendly environments in the workplace?

Travis Hollman: 3:38

The workplace has just become such an interesting spot. So I grew up when I was a young kid, I had dyslexia and ADHD. I also had a bone disease. So I was all interesting. I was in a wheelchair when I was little, and then of course considered at the time just dumb. I mean, I couldn't read, I plunked third grade, quote unquote, dumbest kid that they're that they'd ever had at the school. You're not welcome back to the school. They actually kicked me out of a private school, third grade, and told me in front of my parents that I was the dumbest kid they ever taught. But I was neurodiverse, and there was no understanding for it back then. And back in those days, people don't understand. If you were neurodiverse back in the days, you had autism and all these things that we're seeing now. And I think we're seeing a lot of them, who knows if there's something in the air or whatever. I don't know that. I'm not a scientist, but back in those days, those people went to farms and they went, there's manual labor to do, and that's where they ended up. And now there's not that type of work as much anymore. So they're ending up in the workspace. They're brilliant. I mean, the the most brilliant people in the last 200 years are all neurodiverse. Albert Einstein, Henry Ford, I mean, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, uh, Bill Gates. Um, the list is just incredible what they can do. And some of those people got in the right environment with right people, but other people are just they're pushing an open office space. They're pushed into a very uncomfortable situation with people walking. I mean, my computer screen, every other word is misspelled. And even the word like and or there, I still misspell there, by the way. T H E I R or T-H-I-R-E, I don't know, right? But spell check that was which kind of the first AI helps helps us out. But that's embarrassing when people are walking behind you and your screen's just full of red everywhere because you misspelled everything. And that's what we've created. There's this open office space, this thing that everybody's, you know, just gonna work out there and be be normal in. I mean, there's story after story of people. I would never have made it in the work environment in an open office. There is no way I could have done it, I would be out at a farm picking strawberries, which was my first job ever, still doing it, because I couldn't do it. And they're making these people go into these office spaces and work in an environment that just doesn't work for them. And there's so much, I really feel with AI coming, if you're neurodiverse and can get in an environment which is which helps you instead of hurts you, I think those are the people that are going to change the world. I think with AI doing the writing, and I mean, I take bullet points now and I say, let's put it put it in a format, and all of a sudden it'll write all the stuff around the bullet points for me. I don't have to come up with all the fancy words, I just have to come up with the idea. And neurodiverse people are excellent at coming up with ideas. But they've been put in a, you know, they've been put out an open office, and so with a with a more personalized office space environment that goes to their needs, helps them. And with AI, I mean, I feel sorry for the quote quote normal people. I do. I think that the the the neurodiverse, the autistic, the the people are going to have such an advantage in the future. And so we're trying to do that. And also, I mean, let's be you know, 40% of them are unemployed, and 85% of autistic kids are unemployed. There's no reason for that.

Manya Chylinski: 7:07

Yeah. Well, especially as you know, we're getting we're getting some tools that make it easier to communicate, easier to share your ideas in ways that are different from or allowing you to participate in ways that we just never had the will or the capacity to be open to. And to me, the the the fundamental of this is having compassion for people who have a different way of being, have a different way of thinking, a different way of presenting themselves to the world than what we think is normal. And I want to say quote unquote normal, because what really is we're all on the spectrum.

Travis Hollman: 7:49

No one just exactly. I don't know who brought this up, but it's called a spectrum. It means everybody's on it, right? You might be in the middle of it, but you're still on it. You're still on the turret.

Manya Chylinski: 8:00

And one does not need to be diagnosed with something like autism to hate the concept of an open office. Like I don't I I don't like it, and I don't know who does like it, but I I I recognize that there are those differences. And so I worry about workplaces that don't that are structured in a way to not be as accepting of those kinds of differences.

Travis Hollman: 8:24

I will tell you, not only I think that they're gonna have an advantage, but we started and started hiring specifically people or looking for people that had autism to come to work for us. And I just give you an example. Last Christmas, we have a always have a Christmas party at my house, and one of the kids here is autistic, brilliant guy. And of course, we got him working in the right environment, but he was so nervous because the the party had a theme, and he was running around, wanted to make sure he was there exactly at seven o'clock. He was by the way exactly at seven o'clock, and he had to know what to wear, and he was so confused by dressing up. And having him talk to every he talked to a bunch of his people that he knows, he's not overly talkative. And they were kind of it was human. Talking about compassion. Having these people in your office makes things more human. It makes you think, wow, they just because they'll say stuff sometimes that is very direct, but maybe not politically correct in our environment. Now people around the office can say stuff a little bit more, not as politically correct as before, kind of like we used to talk five years ago or 10 years ago. And because we have people that just say that, everybody gives a little bit of balance. They're like, they don't jump to conclusions like, oh my gosh, someone said something that was might have been a little bit not what you know the the world wants them to say right now, because there's a little bit more, like you say, compassion around them because they're seeing people as not all like themselves, as not all neurotypical, because there's different people now. It just breeds compassion.

Manya Chylinski: 10:31

Right. Absolutely. Now, the kind of workplace you're describing isn't a kind of workplace that I've ever worked in when I worked in corporate America. Um, certainly they could have things could have changed since I was last there, but that was not my experience of an of an office environment. What are the kinds of structures or policies are really important to make sure you're supporting your employees in this way, that you are recognizing the different ways that we all show up to work?

Travis Hollman: 11:04

I think that I don't know if there's really policies in place. We try to not do a lot of policies here. We've got probably one of the most diverse offices you've ever seen. And I was asked during COVID to be on a panel, talk to about 2,000 people by Bank of America, and they because they said, Well, you've got the most diverse office we've seen. And what's your policy? And I'm like, we just hire the best people. And it turns out that black, white, red, green, autistic, non-autistic. I mean, if you just get if you hire the best people, but but we do have a we do have a lookout in HR for people that are on the spectrum because we were in that business, and I think they're actually most of them are smarter and they come with different ideas. I just had the most marvelous morning here. I got Hugs Cafe came in and they're they they help people with uh that are on the spectrum and and Down syndrome, and they came in with a kid named Travis that's got Down syndrome to look at our project. We're helping them with some some some things here. We're giving them free lockers and stuff. But I had a dream, and I told told her as Lauren Lauren Late, I said, I had a dream about three months ago. I haven't done it yet. But everybody gets, you know, corporate office gets so tense, and people with Down syndrome have I've never met one that's not happy. They are happy just to be part of something. And I had this dream, and I have not done it yet, that we hired somebody with Down syndrome just to be our just to work and help people around the company and to be that light that inspires people to be more compassionate and realize that people can be happy with with who they are and can be, it's not serious all the time. We take ourselves so seriously. And it was this kid was great, he has a job there, and he's there. He just wrote their um, they they have a pledge they they'd say every morning, the whole whole office, and he wrote it because he's in charge of of making people happy. And I said, that's exactly what my dream was to have someone there that just makes you happy. And um, so there's a great opportunity for for people. And A is not taking that job. I mean, no, that's they're not taking that job at all.

Manya Chylinski: 13:12

The chief happiness officer, that fully a human role. And I I love how you're thinking about the skills different people bring to the office because that's fundamentally that's what we're talking about. We each bring different awareness, different skills. And I think for so long in the workplace, we've rewarded a very narrow way of being.

Travis Hollman: 13:39

Oh, correct. Yeah, that's it's all been, you know. I mean, look at look at the reports that you get. All the reports are exactly the same. If you look at PowerPoints, they're all done exactly the same. Everything you get in office is so bland nowadays. It's all been done. I think with the skill set that some of these people could have, could really change, you know, not having different types of people, especially, you know, not just races, but different types of minds in there is a bigger advantage than that than race or anything else and being in being done that way. I think it's just the the different thinking is is incredible. And you kind of learn everything from everybody, everybody's got a different role. And if everybody can look at a problem differently, and that's where some of the people you get people we've got people from different countries and they look at things differently, different religions. They look at things differently, they come from a different angle. And um, that's where I think the true f fabric is. I think that that's what creates this, you know, workplace that is compassionate um by having different people because you get to see what life is like for other people all over the place to keep your eyes open.

Manya Chylinski: 14:46

Right. And people bring their different histories and their different experiences and different ideas, and that really benefits the business and the innovation. And yeah, what do you think? I feel sometimes people are afraid to hire individuals who are different than they are, and which I think is a is a failure of thinking. But do you have any metrics or indicators that kind of show how important it is to hire people who are different?

Travis Hollman: 15:19

No, I we're not that big of a company and we don't we don't measure that, but you can just see it. I mean, if you're involved in your business, you kind of you you know what's going on. I mean, I mean, first thing you gotta do in your business is walk in with a with a good attitude. Because if you own the company or the leader of the business, everybody's looking to see how the boss walks in in the morning. Yeah is he or she happy, is she mad? You know, is is he is he you know what's going on? So you gotta as a leader, you gotta walk in with a great attitude. But you can see there's always those people. Every company has those people that walk in and bring a lot of personality and and compassion and and drive and everything to the company. And those people, you you know who those are. Everybody that's listening does. Those are the people you need to keep. They're they're wonderful to have. You need those people uplifting people in your company. And then you're gonna just have some other people that just put their head down and work, and those people are great too, but you need a mix of people, you know, they got to work together.

Manya Chylinski: 16:22

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. What kind of non-traditional leadership practices do you think kind of promote this kind of inclusivity and compassion in a workplace?

Travis Hollman: 16:36

We celebrate a lot of stuff here at our company. We celebrate birthdays. We used to do a birthday cake for every single person, and then we got up to a couple hundred people, and we couldn't do that. I mean, people were just getting fat. But it was, it was uh, it was it was fun. Um, but you know, we just celebrate people and we have fun together. When you go to work, either you can go to work and not like it and put your eight hours in, or find a place that you're you're doing something that's powerful, you've got people in there that you're friends with. I I love it that you there's people here that go golfing once a week. There's groups, there's reading groups and thing. We don't plan any of that. We encourage anything like that, but we don't plan anything like that. And once you get those kinds of things going in your company, there's groups in the plant that go to church together, and there's big church groups. That's what kind of grows that company culture by itself. And you just you got to promote it, but you can't be, you can't demand it. And it'll organically happen because people find people they like to be with, and then you know, then they become very loyal to the company and they become better workers, better employees because they enjoy being here, they want to come in. We didn't shut down, everybody thought I was crazy. We didn't shut down during COVID because we actually got letters from some some of the government people saying we needed, we were mandatorily needed to work on some jobs that were it was kind of a weird thing. But so we didn't shut down we and my plants had to work. So then I brought all the office staff in after about a month, and I said, This is why can't have them go out and work next to each other with and we're scared at home sitting at home. And everybody that worked together during that time thanked us later and said, Hey, this is a place we we were excited to get back to work to see our friends at work. Unfortunately, COVID was a is has caused a lot of problems and that people don't, you know, got so so disconnected from other people, it's hard, they haven't connected back in yet. And now we're forcing one of these companies are forcing people to come back. But I think if they'd never really left as as long as they did, it would have been a very easy thing because they want to see their friends. They should have friends. If you're not going to work and don't have friends there, don't don't go do something else. That's not this is where you should be having friends because this is where you spend your time.

Manya Chylinski: 19:00

That is one of those questions on on surveys, right? Do you have a best friend at work? And it sounds like you have built this joyous environment. I mean, work gets done and people are working, but if you've built this place where so many people are creating friendships, that really speaks to the culture and to your leadership. And again, you're not forcing this on people, but you've created this environment. I I love the sound of that.

Travis Hollman: 19:33

We just got done. Uh one of our sales guys got married. He's been here for about four years, and in his wedding party, he had three home and employees in his wedding party. Oh. That's what you want to create.

Manya Chylinski: 19:45

That's that says a lot. That says a lot, Travis, about the culture in your company. Yay you. I love the sound of that.

Travis Hollman: 19:53

It's not all perfect here.

Manya Chylinski: 19:55

Oh, I know.

Travis Hollman: 19:56

I know. We'll take, we'll take, we'll take the accolades. Absolutely.

Manya Chylinski: 20:01

Take the accolades when you can. And no workplace, even the most compassionate and the most inclusive, is perfect because it's filled with humans who are imperfect and sometimes we don't get along, and sometimes we don't do the things we're supposed to do. What do you think is the biggest risk to an organization if they don't embrace this kind of inclusivity and compassion in their workplace?

Travis Hollman: 20:28

I mean, it's things are moving so fast with social media and with all the amount of when I started working in the in the 80s, you know, there was nothing like that. If you didn't like work, you told your your friends at home and that was it. Yes. Um now it's it, you know, it's so things move so fast. If your company becomes stale or or you know, isn't the place to be, people people change jobs so fast nowadays. We did my my generation, you were supposed to be at one job your whole life. That was yes, that was it. And now I think the average per I can't remember Red is something like three years or something like that at a job, and they're changing. So you have to create a place where they want to stay. Because you know, all the business, all everybody in business knows you you don't make money on anybody for at least the first year. That's between the mistakes and trainings and everything else, it's really not profitable for the company the first year. You're overpaying them the first year. So you really got to get them to get your your return on investment, you gotta get give them a place that they need to stay. So you got to create an environment. And things talk, people, information moves so fast. I mean, look at some of these companies, they've come out and been canceled, and all of a sudden it's just boom, you're gone, and everything changes, and the companies go downhill, and it happens very, very, very quickly nowadays. So you really gotta focus on it every day, and you gotta bring your best game to work every day, and you gotta, as an owner, you've got or business or president, whoever you are, you gotta just come in with a good attitude and and know that people are watching you, they're going to mimic you, and hopefully not gonna cancel you, but you better you you they're gonna talk and they're gonna talk on social media, and they're gonna talk on LinkedIn, and they're gonna talk to people. And so you gotta, it's much more dicey now. Gotta, you gotta be this, you gotta be very careful, not necessarily what you say, but what you the attitude you bring, the the thought process you bring.

Manya Chylinski: 22:29

Right. Well, you mentioned that people are watching you, right? And they're listening to what you say. And what's so important about that is that your words and your actions are aligned. So you're not saying one thing and acting in a doing something differently in the workplace, talking to the public about how great things are, but then doing something different in the workplace. So people really do pay attention to your words and your actions.

Travis Hollman: 22:52

Yeah, they do, especially, and then they all have a voice. Yeah. Now back in the old days we had two unions, no one had a voice. Now everybody's got it, got an X account, you know. Everybody's got a voice. Probably some people shouldn't probably some people shouldn't have voices, but we're gonna do that.

Manya Chylinski: 23:10

Well, I yes, I mean, I do think everybody has a voice, not everybody's voice gets listened to, but hopefully more in more workplaces, more voices are being heard. That's the that's the dream. So we're getting close to the end of our time, Travis. What is giving you hope these days?

Travis Hollman: 23:30

You know, that's an interesting thing. I think that I think AI is is giving me hope that we're going to get to my my main goal. One of the one of the things we're doing with with MeSpace, we're using a company called Neurables. We're actually looking at your brain waves when you're in open office as opposed to being in a MeSpace. And uh your mental, basically mental abilities go up by 26% inside the space. So we're increasing your cognitive output by 26%, which means you're getting about 26% more work done and better work done in the same amount of time. My big goal would be to between AI and uh and things like Me Space is get to a four-day work week. People don't know this back in back in the early days. Henry Ford, it was a it was it was a six-day work week, uh, 10-hour day, 60-day work week. Henry Ford invented the invented the uh production line, and he's the one that basically moved it down to the four-day or the five-day work week, 40-hour week. And then when invention of the computer came, everybody thought we'd get to a three-day work week because productivity goes so long. Productivity went up there, but corporate America just grabbed the profits. And now we're at another inflection point. And so if Me Space can help, and things like AI can help get more work done, it would be great to see people have the ability to go spend time with their friends and family almost half their life than a three-day work week. That's a they're getting closer to the half half their life. And I think that's that would be the thing that gives me hope is hopefully corporate America doesn't steal the profits and it gives people back a little bit of their own humanity and life, and the world's just a little bit better place.

Manya Chylinski: 25:15

Yeah. Oh, I love that. Travis, thank you so much. I've really enjoyed our conversation. And before we go, can you please tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Travis Hollman: 25:25

My name is Travis Hollman. I'm the uh owner of Hollman Inc., which we are the largest uh locker manufacturer in the country. And um, so we do every all the lockers. We just did the Green Bay Packers, and I do all the LA fitnesses and the Planet Fitnesses, and you know, all the golf courses um that you can think of. And we are also when we just started a new company, new division called Me Space, which is a very customized private office to work in all day that has got things directly positioned for neurodiverse people. A very interesting thing, we just started our our all of our stuff, which I said we're 26% uh cognitive improvement in MeSpace, but neuro, I thought the neurodiverse people would have a bigger uh boost in that. And neurodiverse, neurotypical people are all enjoying the product at the same, getting the same boost in the product. So we are all more similar than we think, and that's coming from brainwave research, not it's not a survey. This is actually kind of like the old suction cups on your head. They've neurobles has made it into a headset that reads everything around your ears. And so this is actually brainwave technology, and we are it's just amazing to see that uh we're all more similar. We're all on this planet together, and we're everybody thinks we're so divisive, even politically, but I bet you when you get down on everything, if everybody starts looking at the similarities, we're all closer together than everybody thinks.

Manya Chylinski: 26:58

I think you're right about that. That the research sounds fascinating, and and so does MeSpace. I love that idea. Travis, thank you so much. I really enjoyed talking with you today.

Travis Hollman: 27:10

I enjoyed it too. Thank you.

Manya Chylinski: 27:12

And thank you to our listeners for listening to this episode of Notes on Resilience, and I will catch you next time.