164: Leading Through Unrest, with Ayme Zemke

When a crisis engulfs your community, the urge to go quiet can be powerful—and costly. 

We sit down with Ayme Zemke, Chief Client Officer and Certified Crisis Communication Leader at Beehive Strategic Communication, to break down how leaders can speak with clarity, protect trust, and support employees without getting pulled into partisan crossfire. From the current turbulence in Minnesota’s Twin Cities to the universal dynamics of fear, fatigue, and confusion, Ayme shares a calm, values-first approach that keeps people grounded.

We unpack the moments that shape a steady crisis communicator and why optimism, not spin, can be a strategic asset when emotions run hot. You’ll hear how to turn organizational values into decision rules, so they guide what you say and what you do. We explore why repetition is reassuring during stress, how to set a dependable update cadence, and the power of saying the same thing in different ways for different learners.

The conversation also looks beyond the initial response to the often-missed phases of recovery and renewal. We discuss how to debrief thoughtfully, capture lessons while they’re fresh, and update playbooks so the next response is faster and more human. Along the way, Amy shares what it looks like when a community crisis tests your culture. If you lead people through uncertainty, this is a field guide to acting with care, speaking with purpose, and staying aligned when the noise gets loud.

LinkedIn: Ayme Zemke

Beehive Strategic Communications

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Transcript

Ayme Zemke 0:01

Start with the people. And so if there is a situation happening that is so kind of pervasive as the one that we're experiencing right now in the Twin Cities, how is it impacting my people's ability to show up and be supported and you know, and yes, do their work.

Calm In Crisis As A Superpower

Manya Chylinski 0:21

Hello and welcome to Notes on Resilience. I'm your host, Manya Chylinski. My guest today is Ayme Zemke, Chief Client Officer and Certified Crisis Communication Leader at Beehive Strategic Communication in the Twin Cities in Minnesota. We talked about crisis communication, understanding what is really important, especially when you're dealing with an ongoing crisis. I think you're going to find this a really important conversation. Thank you for joining today. Ayme, I'm so excited to be talking with you today. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. I'm really thrilled to be here and happy to be talking to you today. First question out of the gate What would be the title of a book about you if your worst enemy wrote it?

Ayme Zemke 1:14

That is a very tough question. I think it would be one of two. So the first one that I think of is permanently wearing rose-colored glasses. Second, maybe a little bit more punchy version, what would be why isn't she panicking?

Manya Chylinski 1:28

Oh, that's a good one. Now, do you have a particular enemy in mind, or are you just thinking in general?

Ayme Zemke 1:35

I have well, I'm thinking, you know, around the focus of our conversation. So definitely thinking about it through the lens of crisis communication. And I think one of the things that strikes a lot of people that I work with and talk to is when a crisis hits, a lot of people feel that fear and anxiety come up. And I go to a very, very calm place. And uh not only is it a calm place, but it's a place of optimism. Um, I really believe in the adage that every crisis is an opportunity. And I think that's a little bit different perspective. And I think that at least initially, it might be a little bit off-putting to someone who doesn't understand why I'm not panicking along with them.

Manya Chylinski 2:15

Yes, exactly. Well, and in a crisis, it is helpful to have people who are calm and thinking rationally and and strategically about what is happening. Okay, I like both of those names of those books. So let me know when that book is out because I'm going to get it or want to read it. And to get us started, I'd love to ask a personal question. So everyone has a moment in their life that has changed how they think about leadership or about taking care of other people. What was one of those moments for you?

Ayme Zemke 2:56

I think for me, um, early in my career, I had the opportunity to work with some folks that brought a lot of expertise to the to our field and to the to the work that I do. And I watched how they manage through difficult situations. So I worked um in the early my career, I worked in public affairs. And so pretty high stakes sometimes involved, you know, fatalities or accidents or you know, really high stakes legislation. And um I got the opportunity to watch people and how they responded to that. And I think it wasn't really just, I don't think there was one specific incident or time that that really kind of turned things for me, but I think I really absorbed what I felt worked well and and what didn't. I think I really kind of paid attention to where I felt like they were having a really positive, um, important impact versus where it was just creating more noise. And so I think over the course of my career, I just kind of started picking those pieces to say, oh, this is what I want to emulate. This is where I see it really working. And then trying to marry that with just kind of who I am as a human, I think is is what really kind of helped me find my approach. I but I don't know that there was a single incident or issue that I can share though.

Lessons From High-Stakes Public Affairs

Manya Chylinski 4:12

Okay, okay. Well, it sounds like you worked with some people who were good people to learn from. And and as we all know, experience is a great teacher as well. You mentioned something that I think is so important when we're thinking about crisis communications, which is noise. And certainly these days with social media and their our 24-7 news cycle, there's a lot more noise out there. I'd love to dive into a specific thing that's going on near you right now. Um, you are in St. Paul, Minnesota, and there's a massive ongoing crisis happening right now. And you are a crisis communicator. So I'm so curious how you are thinking about this moment and how you are helping your clients think about communications and tune out the noise.

Ayme Zemke 5:08

Yeah, so I'm in the Twin Cities, as you said. And um, as I think most people know, right now we have a really heavy uh federal government presence through ICE and Border Patrol. And it's a little all-encompassing right now, uh, at this at this particular moment of in time, and it is creating a lot of noise and a lot of distraction. And you know, I think it's interesting when you when you think about clients and business leaders and you know, what role do they play here? They can play a lot of different roles, honestly, but I think where I find um a lot of my conversations focusing is what am I supposed to tell my employees? What am I supposed to tell my teams? Because right now, it really is, I think, primarily the people that are in this geography, the people who live and work in this community that have the most direct, certain most direct impact. So there's always, you know, a customer piece of this. I I certainly want to acknowledge that too. But I think when it comes to what is the most immediate need to try to think about addressing in the midst of all of this, it really is how do I talk to my people? How do I, how do I make sure that my team and my employees and my people have a sense of stability in what is a really uncertain and disruptive time. And so it is one of those situations right now where it is difficult to focus on work. It is, you know, it is it is really an all-encompassing situation. And so for leaders, it can also feel scary, right? It's it can be a scary time to step into that conversation. It feels divisive, it feels political. And I think traditionally, leaders, business leaders certainly have tried to stay away from those kinds of conversations, right? Politics was always kind of a taboo topic for a really long time. Anything that felt divisive, you know, felt like, oh, we can't talk about that. We got to stay really neutral. And what I would say is that it feels like right now is an opportunity when something like this, certainly of this scale, what doesn't have to be of this scale, but certainly of this scale is happening. There's a way you can communicate and talk with your people. You don't necessarily have to dive into the politics of it. You don't have to, you know, do something that feels divisive. But to not acknowledge it is far worse than any misstep you might be afraid of making by talking. I think that the real challenge is the silence is deafening. And so it's really important that leaders think about how they want to address this and make sure that they are talking with their people because that communication starts to provide some level of stability and certainty when everything else feels the opposite of that.

Manya Chylinski 7:39

Right. And as you mentioned, so many people are impacted by this in so many different ways, whether something's happening in their neighborhood or they or friends or family are involved directly. I would imagine that practically every employee right now in the Twin Cities is dealing with some level of this. And I liked what you said about silence. And we do, I think sometimes there's such a fear of saying the wrong thing that we default to not saying anything. And we all know that is so much worse. But in the moment, keeping things close feels like the thing to do. Why on earth is that?

Twin Cities Unrest And Employer Roles

Ayme Zemke 8:21

Leaders are human, right? And in a time like this, a time when it feels um frightening or it feels, you know, very unstable, it is very human to feel stuck or frozen, or maybe a little bit paralyzed and not really sure what to do. And I feel like sometimes that's what's stopping people from speaking up is just this kind of feel of a feeling feeling of being frozen and not really knowing what is the right step to take. And I think what's important for leaders to remember is in times like this, even though we might all be feeling those things, if you're a leader, inactivity and silence, those are not options for you. You have to find a way through that. And one of the things we talk to our clients about a lot, and then I talk to other people about quite a bit in terms of leadership and what to say, go back to your values as an organization. If you don't know what to say, really take a step back, look at your values, really think about who you are as an organization. What do you stand for? What have you promised? What expectations have you set for your people and your culture? That's always the best place to start. That is a really important guide for how you want to start having some of those conversations. The other thing I would say is make sure you're listening. I think that is a very common mistake when it comes to crisis communication is, and again, I think it's because we're nervous or anxious or, you know, to your point, afraid to say the wrong thing, people just kind of barrel forward. And it's really important to understand where people are at so that you can meet them where they're at and have conversations that really get to their concerns, their questions, you know, what they might have on their mind. So making sure that you are listening and letting your values guide that conversation, those are really good starting points to try to get past that kind of feeling of frozen and fear, and boy, I should say something, but I don't know what to say, so I'm not saying anything. That kind of helps take that first step.

Manya Chylinski 10:13

Right. Well, as you're saying that, I'm thinking organization and values and culture, and then crisis. And that's where the rubber meets the road. That's where you find out if your values, if you live by them, if they matter, if your employees care about them, all of those really tough questions. So I can see how scary it would be.

Ayme Zemke 10:35

Yeah, it absolutely is where your values are tested. I think that it's one thing to have values in an organization. It's another to live those values. And it's even another to let those values be your North Star, essentially. Are they are they what you use to make your decisions? Do they ground kind of what choices you make as a leader and as an organization? That's when those that's when those values really, really come to life in a way that is incredibly meaningful. Or the flip side, if you don't use those as your browning and your guide, that's where things fall apart really quickly. Because what people have come to believe and expect from you, if your actions don't follow up the words that you've you've used, that is a very, very quick way to lose trust.

Manya Chylinski 11:22

Right. And then they're just words on your website or on the wall of your lobby at headquarters.

Ayme Zemke 11:27

Exactly. Exactly. And honestly, that's worse than not having values at all, in my opinion. If they're just words on a wall, you don't really have values. Right. They're just pretty shapes on the wall. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Manya Chylinski 11:42

No, you know, we're talking specifically about this particular event that's going on, and it's been going on for quite a while. And at this point, we don't know when it's going to end. So, what is different about a crisis that has a pretty clear start and stop time versus something that is continuing, and especially when you don't really have a sense of when it's going to be over?

Breaking The Silence Without Politics

Ayme Zemke 12:08

Yeah, I think you know, it certainly is challenging because, in addition to just saying something in the first place and communicating, it there's a there's an expectation for ongoing communication. And it can be very difficult when it is, especially when it goes on for a long time. It is something that in in this particular case, you know, kind of leaves everyone feeling a little exhausted, not even a little a lot exhausted. And as a as a leader, continuing to communicate, even if you're not saying anything terribly different, is really important. Checking in on your people very regularly is important. And it almost become it really does become your full-time job. So it can be challenging, right? Because you still have to balance keeping your organization moving forward and the things that you do as a leader anyway. But if your people aren't coming along with you, if your people don't feel safe, if they don't feel supported, all those other business goals are going to go out the window. And so really making sure you've got a very steady presence, especially when something is ongoing, and really understanding, again, where your people are at. So making sure to listen and figure out how do you best support? Do they need resources? Do they need a maybe a reduced focus? You know, just being really smart about what's needed so that the business or the organizational priorities can continue to move forward, but in a way that people can feel they they can manage it.

Manya Chylinski 13:25

One thing you said I think is so important that it's okay to keep repeating the same message generally over time. And in fact, you know, we know that when someone is in emotional distress, it is harder to hear messaging, it's harder to remember it. Even if you were specifically listening for someone to say something, it's still going to be harder for you to hear it and remember it. So that repetition piece is so important, especially in this case where the crisis hasn't ended.

Ayme Zemke 13:54

Yes. Repetition is really important. Absolutely. In fact, that's something that we, even when we're coaching for a media interview, for instance, um, really important to have it feels to you like you're saying the same thing over and over again. Um, but for the people that are taking the message in, it to your point, either they may not have heard it the first time or they're hearing it in a different way, um, you know, with different kinds of learners, people here, you know, understand things verbally or visually or experientially. And so making sure you're thinking about different ways to communicate that message. And also it just really reinforces and signals to folks what to focus on. And so a message heard over time, several times over time, really does make sure that people stay focused on the right thing versus trying to share 15 different messages and people aren't really sure where to look. That that repetition is actually a bit reassuring and comforting because it gives a focal point to the people who are uh who are taking that in. Right.

Manya Chylinski 14:50

And I think I would imagine it can feel very strange to someone who isn't used to just saying the same thing over and over again. And I think my father was a professor, a university professor, and the number of times he would say things to us and then repeat it in a different way. And then and I remember thinking, you know, I heard you the first time, but as I got older, I realized, oh, I I get why he's doing this. He wants that's what he does as an instructor. That's not what most of us do. So I bet it feels uncomfortable for leaders. Also because in this case where you're talking about this ongoing crisis, it's also uncomfortable because you want the thing to be over and you want to stop thinking about it. Right.

Values As The North Star

Ayme Zemke 15:34

Absolutely. I think that you know that that is the hope at the end of the day, is everyone wants to just get through it. I also think that that's a a really important thing to talk about, too, is that in even in a crisis that feels like it has a more defined start and finish, it is really important to not be so anxious to move on from the crisis that you don't help your people kind of step through what they are experiencing and feeling. So when we talk about crisis here at Beehive, we often talk about it in four phases. And the first two are you know, preparing for it and responding to it, but the second two are really about how do you start to restore and how do you then move forward? It is really important that you don't give that give that you know short trip because that is where the learnings happen. And that is how you help people come through things emotionally and understand what has changed. They're a different approach, for instance. What where's the support for me to be able to move forward? And then as an organization, what did we learn from it? Um, what are you, you know, what might we as an organization want to do differently as a result of what we've experienced? And I think that is another area where I see people um, you know, they want to move on so badly that they forget that part and you kind of run the risk then of repeating mistakes. Right.

Manya Chylinski 16:47

And everyone in your organization is experiencing this thing differently. Absolutely. For all of the reasons, because we're each individual and some are stressed out about it and they're never going to show you that they are, and some are not as stressed about it. Just naturally, they're not. And continuing with the messaging is a way to make sure you're reaching everybody when they're able to hear it.

Ayme Zemke 17:14

Yeah. I think too, making sure that you know it's not up to just one leader in an organization, it's making sure that you are equipping many leaders, um, sometimes managers, you know, depending on how you're you're structured as an organization, making sure that you are equipping other folks and your um on your team and across your organization to help you with the communication as well. It can't fall on the shoulders of one person. Again, we're all human. And a leader can do a lot and needs to do a lot, but doesn't need to shoulder everything on his or her own shoulders. It's there is strength and support in numbers in that case. And the consistency then that can happen is really important. You know, I think people talk a lot about how the relationships within an organization, your trust is with your direct supervisor or manager. And so making sure that that person has what they need to be able to help lead some of those conversations, answer some of those questions. So a lot of times we'll, you know, look at things like can you do a toolkit that provides some messaging and some QA and do some training, like really light training, so that those folks feel like they can have that conversation, that they're empowered to do that as a leader within the organization.

Manya Chylinski 18:21

Right. What is, you know, the most common question that leader or leadership team comes to you with when there's a crisis?

Ayme Zemke 18:31

Depends on what stage of the crisis. Oh, okay. And it depends on the type of the crisis, honestly. So something that is more of a uh like a social issue, which I suppose you could say is sort of what's happening in Minneapolis, right? Social political issue. Usually the first the first question is, do we need to get involved? Do we actually need to say something? Is this really our lane? And so I think some of it is just should we do, should we talk at all? I think if they're in the midst of a crisis that is, you know, something is is truly on fire and burning and is having a you know a true business implication, it's how do we essentially how do we stop the the situation that's happening? How do we how do we stop the bleeding? How do we make sure that we are addressing this in a way that will preserve our reputation and allow us to move on and preserve the business? And if they've just gone through a crisis situation, if they're on the back end of it, usually it is how do we rebuild that trust? Because oftentimes there's a loss of trust when a crisis occurs. And so a lot of times you'll see organizations that are looking to build that trust back up, um, both internally and and outside of the organization.

Manya Chylinski 19:39

Okay. All right. Those seem like important questions. And I'm I know that you help your clients think about what what those are. And you know, it's interesting when you talk, we're talking about like a social political situation that isn't for the most part, it's happening, it's having a business impact on businesses that might not even be anywhere near the actual action. And I imagine that at least early on in something like this, it's really hard for leaders to think about is this going to have a business impact on me? I feel like we still struggle to think about the mental health and emotional impact if we don't see a physical impact.

Communicating Through Ongoing Crises

Ayme Zemke 20:24

Yes. Well, and I think when we think about business impact, some I think some leaders look strictly at the revenue numbers or how's this going to impact my ability to meet my business goals for the year, to grow my business, to, you know, whatever it is, the whatever the metric is that they're they're looking for. And I think the thing that's really important is to start with the humans, start with the people. And so if there is a situation happening that is so kind of pervasive as the one that we're experiencing right now in the Twin Cities, how is it impacting my people's ability to show up and be supported and you know, and yes, do their work. But I think I think we all are smarter now about well-being and making sure that our teams and our employees have what they need to be successful. And when things are kind of crumbling all around, they don't. And so I think making sure you're putting your people first, because at the end of the day, it's your people that are going to help you, you know, ultimately reach whatever business goals you're looking to reach. But I would argue that that really should be the first question that you ask yourself is how are my people doing? Absolutely.

Manya Chylinski 21:30

All right, you know, Ayme, I could go on for a very long time with many more questions that I have, but we're getting close to the end of our time. So thank you so much for sharing. And can you share with our listeners a little bit more about yourself and what you do and what Beehive does?

Ayme Zemke 21:45

Yeah, I'd be happy to. Uh, so I um am the chief client officer at Beehive Strategic Communication. We are a boutique strategic communication agency in St. Paul, Minnesota. And we work with clients across a lot of different industries, both um on internal and External communication, so helping them create meaningful connection and engagement inside the organizations as well as outside the organizations, always grounded in trust and making sure they're able to connect with the people that matter. Beehive is a strategic or excuse me, Beehive is a certified B Corp, which means that we put people in Planet Above Profit. We are, of course, a business, but we are really, really dedicated and committed to making sure that the work that we do is values aligned and purpose-driven. And we're we're really proud to be able to partner with clients who feel the same.

Manya Chylinski 22:33

Oh, that's wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing. And thank you again for being here today and talking about this subject, which is very present and very real for you right now, I know. It is. And I appreciate the opportunity. So thank you so much for having me. Oh, yeah. And thank you to our listeners for listening to this episode of Notes on Resilience. And we will catch you next time.