Messy Social Work
Welcome to the Messy Social Work podcast. The hosts are Richard Devine and Tim Fisher.
Check out our website here: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Episodes
98 episodes
Rich and Tim speak to Professor Jonathan Scourfield on what the largest-ever Family Group Conference study reveals
Professor Jonathan Scourfield is a leading UK academic in social work, currently based at Cardiff University. His work spans child welfare, social care inequalities, suicide and self‑harm research, and working with men across the life course&nb...
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1:15:19
Rich and Tim speak to Juliette Davies about addiction, domestic abuse and her recovery journey
A few years ago, Rich carried out an assessment that concluded Juliette couldn’t safely care for her children. It was a difficult moment, shaped by years of substance misuse, trauma, and repeated involvement from services.That assessment...
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56:22
Rich and Tim on practice lessons from the tragic death of Sara Shariff
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: h...
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1:15:21
Rich and Tim speak to Ethan St Pierre about trauma tourism, alongside a news roundup from Mithran Samuel (CC)
Connect with Ethan here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethan-st-pierre-bb58403ab/Relational Activism: https://ww...
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1:05:34
Rich and Tim speak to Ethan St Pierre about growing up in care, addiction and being reborn in a cemetery
Connect with Ethan here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethan-st-pierre-bb58403ab/Relational Activism:
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1:05:36
Rich and Tim talk to Mark Hopfenbeck about the transformative possibilities of Open Dialogue.
In this conversation, Rich and Tim and Mark Hopfenbeck explore the concept of Open Dialogue, its origins, and its application in mental health and social work. They discuss the importance of community involvement, the need for continuity in car...
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1:02:42
Connecting Research: Why young people don't access mental health support
In this episode, we speak with Dr Mina Fazel, a British psychiatrist who is Professor and Chair of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Oxf...
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33:10
BONUS Episode: Rich and Tim reflect on what its like to be silent for 6 days
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: h...
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52:31
Rich and Tim talk to Seana McDermott (Social Worker for Children in Care) about relational practice, moral injury and making a difference
This week, we speak to Seana, a social worker in a Child in Care Team. We explore what her role involves, how she builds relationships with young people, carers, and families, and the challenges she faces—as well as what helps her k...
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47:22
Rich and Tim hear about handstands, breakdance battles, and the unconscious: Dr Anna Harvey on what shapes social work
In this two-part episode of Messy Social Work, hosts Richard Devine and Tim Fisher speak with Dr Anna Harvey about the realities of child protection practice, reflective supervision, and the emotional weight of decision-making. Using a...
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51:21
Rich and Tim speak to Dr Anna Harvey about fear loneliness and joy in social work
In this two-part episode of Messy Social Work, hosts Richard Devine and Tim Fisher speak with Dr Anna Harvey about the realities of child protection practice, reflective supervision, and the emotional weight of decision-making. Using a...
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59:36
Rich and Tim return to talk boundaries, creating space and big changes ahead
Rich and Tim are back in the studio of the Messy Social Work Podcast, shaking off the holiday cobwebs and diving straight into the age-old tradition of New Year’s resolutions. Tim’s on a mission to set some firm boundaries, while Rich is dreami...
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45:40
Rich and Tim wrap up the year in conversation with Andrew Turnell
Rich and Tim are joined by Andrew Turnell to reflect on 2025.Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions:
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1:14:26
Rich and Tim speak to Prof Donald Forrester about Nanny McPhee, baseball bats and the heart of social work (rights?!)
In this episode of The Messy Social Work Podcast, we sit down with Professor Donald Forrester, researcher and social worker. We talk about why he thinks social workers are a bit like Nanny McPhee, why social work isn’t really ...
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1:07:48
Rich and Tim speak to Charlotte Clark (Child Protection Social Worker) about trust, power and relationships
Rich and Tim sit down with Charlotte Clark, a practising frontline child protection social worker, to explore what it means to build trust in contexts where distrust runs deep. From navigating statutory power dynamics to managing conflict under...
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51:31
Rich and Tim speak with Anam Raja to discuss the experiences of Black and Asian kinship carers
Full research and report found herehttps://kinship.org.uk/our-work-and-impact/research/raised-by-relatives/
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42:30
Rich and Tim ask each other surprising & difficult questions
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: h...
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48:17
Rich and Tim discuss the Trauma Industrial Complex
This week on Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim take a deep dive into Darren McGarvey’s The Trauma Industrial Complex — a book that pulls no punches about how society packages, sells, and performs trauma. We explore McGarvey’s core arg...
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52:10
Connecting Research: linking childhood maltreatment to later intimate partner violence victimization
In this Connecting Research episode, we speak to a lecturer and researcher at University College London, Dr Patrizia Pezzoli, about an article she co-authored, titled: Lived-experience perspectives on the psychological factors linking childh...
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44:04
Rich and Tim speak to Toni Mayo about Radical Social Work
In this episode, we have a returning guest: social worker and team manager Toni Mayo. Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions:
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46:55
Rich and Tim speak to Rhian Taylor on the tension between being and doing in social work
In this episode, we explore the tension between the fast-paced, task-driven nature of social work and the deeper need for presence, reflection, and meaning. Rhian Taylor shares insights from her recent blog on why it’s so hard for p...
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1:03:55
Rich and Tim speak to Nicki Pettitt, Consultant specialising in Child Safeguarding Practice Reviews
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Context Counts: Improving the analysis of socio-economic context and intersect...
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1:06:00
Rich and Tim probe Community Care Editor, Mithran for the latest social work headlines-from foster care shortages to the future of kinship
Josh MacAlister has said he’d like children to have a choice of where and with whom they live:
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44:11
Rich and Tim speak to Dr Paul Shuttleworth on what children want you to know about kinship
In this episode of the Messy Social Work Podcast, Rich and Tim speak with Dr Paul Shuttleworth about his new book Listening to Children about Kinship Care: Child Welfare and Permanence. Drawing on powerful research and direct te...
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1:04:01
Rich and Tim speak to Dr Lorna Stabler about lived experience—its power, its promise, and its problems.
In this episode, we explore why lived experience has become such a dominant force in social work, and ask: what are we missing when we treat it as unquestionable truth? Dr Stabler helps us think critically about how stories are used, who ...
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1:19:18