
Messy Social Work
Welcome to the Messy Social Work podcast. The hosts are Richard Devine and Tim Fisher.
Check out our website here: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Episodes
72 episodes
Rich and Tim interview Prof Rick Barth on the top misconceptions in child protection
In this thoughtful and research-informed conversation, Rich and Tim speak with Professor Rick Barth about his influential article, “Ten Common Child Welfare Misconceptions.” The episode explores how widely held beliefs about child prot...
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1:15:05

Rich and Tim speak to Prof. Harry Ferguson: Feeling, moving & sensing through the history of child protection social work
In this episode, Rich and Tim sit down with Professor Harry Ferguson—one of the most influential thinkers in contemporary social work. Together, they explore the evolution of the profession, the emotional and embodied nature of frontline practi...
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1:32:30

Rich and Tim speak with parent activist Lee Crouch about his experience of losing his children & the journey toward reunification
Rich and Tim speak to Lee Crouch, a parent activist, about losing his children, the long road to recovery, and eventual reunification. Together, they explore how parents, social workers, and foster carers can collaborate more compassionately. R...
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55:01

Rich and Tim; 'Headlines with Mithran' (CC editor) and personal reflections on parenting
Social Work England fee rise and increase in fitness to practise case numbers
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41:07

Rich and Tim on how writing sharpens thinking, strengthens practice and opens doors
In this conversation, Rich and Tim explore how writing isn’t just for blogs or books—it’s a powerful tool for social workers to think more clearly, practice more effectively, and create new opportunities. Drawing on their own ...
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46:46

Rich and Tim debate: help individuals or change the system?
In this episode of Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim debate (and disagree about): are social workers failing families by ignoring the system?It’s just the two of us this time, diving into one of the biggest tensions in th...
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53:36

Rich and Tim chat with Dr. Lorna Stabler about what children think makes a great social worker, and explore the vital role of sibling and kinship carers
Dr Lorna Stabler's research can be found here.Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child...
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1:05:46

BONUS: Chapter 1 of Messy Social Work read by Rich Devine
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: h...
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28:11

Rich and Tim: 'headlines with Mithran' & Cordie Gwilym (Social Worker/Coach) on adoption, overcoming loss and coaching
Connect with Cordie here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cordie-gwilym/Mithran's CC articles: A guide to the reforms:
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1:07:26

Rich and Tim speak to Rasheed Pendry OBE (Director at Wandsworth) on systemic practice and leadership
In this conversation, Rasheed Nicholas John Pendry shares his journey into social work, highlighting the transformative impact of systemic ideas and personal experiences on his professional practice. He discusses the importance of r...
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1:00:56

Rich and Tim discuss the 5 reasons why chronologies essential for effective social work practice
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: h...
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49:23

Rich and Tim speak to Clarissa Stevens (Development Worker for Peer Power) on how to work with teenagers and gangs
In this episode of "Messy Social Work," hosts Rich Devine and Tim Fisher engage in a profound conversation with Clarissa Stevens, a seasoned youth worker and relational activist. Clarissa shares her journey from a challenging upbringing to beco...
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49:55

Rich and Tim interview Kevin Campbell on Family Finding; an innovative method for finding family, love and connection
In this conversation, Kevin Campbell discusses the profound impact of family separation policies, particularly in the context of child welfare and legal action against the Trump administration. He emphasizes the importance of family connect...
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1:19:32

Rich and Tim introduce 'Headlines' with CC Editor Mithran Samuel and Review 'Radical Help' by Hilary Cottam
Mithran's articles:
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1:07:30

Rich and Tim interview Prof Jill Derrick on the impossible imperative; navigating competing principles in child protection
We’re joined by the brilliant Professor Jill Derrick from the University of California, Berkeley, for a compelling and thought-provoking conversation on the complexities of child protection practice.From the competing tensions<...
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1:05:19

Rich and Tim speak to Senior Social Worker, Duane Phillips about being mixed heritage, male social worker, working with fathers and much more
In this episode with speak with Duane Phillips, Senior Social Worker at Coventry City Council. We talk about: Duane's experience growing up mixed heritage working with children, families and community
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46:35

Rich and Tim speak to Terri-Anne (Project Worker and Care Experienced) about requesting and reading her files
This week, we have our first-ever return guest, Terri Anne, who shares the important work of the Care Leavers Association and delves into her exploration of the emotional rollercoaster of retrieving and reading her care files. Tim i...
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1:24:01

What 10 years in child protection taught me about people, pain and purpose
In this episode, Rich and Tim and live and in person in Rich's living - they unpack 10 lessons from Rich's experience in child protection, with Tim surprising Rich with a Paxman style interview, quizzing and questioning his central ideas. Do th...
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57:08

Professor Clive Diaz on psychoanalytical ideas in contemporary social work
In this episode, we speak to Professor Clive Diaz, a music producer who has also worked as a social worker, principal social worker, researcher, professor, and psychoanalytical psychotherapist. We discuss the relevance of psychoanal...
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1:05:25

George Fielding BEM on living with cerebral palsy and how we can put the social back into social care
This week, we speak with George Fielding, BEM, a disability rights activist and social care leader. He was the first child in his area to go to a mainstream school in a wheelchair. Since then, he’s worked with charities like Whizz-Kidz, mentore...
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1:06:23

Rich and Tim take on the top three myths in child protection work
In this episode of Messy Social Work, Tim Fisher and Rich Devine explore the complexities of child protection social work. They discuss the myths surrounding the profession, the importance of relationships, and the challe...
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39:26

Rich and Tim introduce 'Messy Social Work' and discuss Rich's blog on reasons for not being a manager
In this episode of the newly named podcast, Rich and Tim discuss Rich's blog; 15 Years in Social Work – And 4 Reasons I am Still Not a Manager.Rich qualified as a social worker 15 years ago and has never held a management role. This has...
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40:02

Professor Anna Gupta (Royal Holloway, University of London) on Poverty and intersectionality
In this episode, we interview Professor Anna Gupta about her early experiences as a social worker, her transition into academia, and her important work on poverty and intersectionality in the context of child protection. We explore:...
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51:24

Rich and Tim on how to find meaning in life
In this episode of the Relational Activism in Social Work podcast, asides Tim's nice hair and the clay.... Tim Fisher FRSA and
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44:17

Jamie Spencer (London Borough of Camden) on Data, Community and Connection
In this episode, we interview Jamie Spencer, who holds the position of 'Head of Insight, Quality, Financial Services, and Digital for Camden Adult Social Care'. However, don't let that job title deter you from listening, as Jamie has had a fasc...
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42:37
