Messy Social Work
Messy Social Work is a podcast for social workers, leaders, students and anyone interested in helping people navigate life's toughest challenges.
Hosted by Rich Devine and Tim Fisher, the podcast explores child protection, systemic practice, relationships, leadership, trauma, family support and the realities of frontline social work.
Each week, we speak with leading thinkers, practitioners, researchers and people with lived experience to explore what helps, what harms and what social work can learn from both success and failure.
Expect honest conversations, practical ideas, challenging questions and occasional disagreement, all grounded in a belief that meaningful change happens through relationships.
Because social work isn't neat.
It's messy.
Episodes
122 episodes
Terri-Anne on care experience, loneliness, identity, parenting, and the courage to challenge patterns passed down through generations
In this episode of This Is Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim are joined once again by care-experienced advocate, project worker and Churchill Fellow, Terri-Anne Hamer.Terri-Anne shares insights from her Churchill Fellowship resear...
"I call her my second mum" The extraordinary relationship between care leaver Shakira and her Personal Advisor, Sarah.
What difference can one consistent relationship make in a young person's life?In this moving and deeply honest episode, Rich and Tim are joined by care leaver Shakira Peart and her Personal Advisor Sarah Fisher. Together, they reflect on...
What social workers get wrong in court: Insights from family barrister Gemma Chapman
In this episode, Richard Devine sits down with family law barrister Gemma Chapman to explore the intersection between social work, family justice and advocacy.Gemma shares her journey into family law, what she enjoys most about be...
Rich and Tim relational skills, networks, theory and leadership in Family Group Decision Making
In the second part of their Family Group Decision Making (FGDM) series, Richard Devine and Tim Fisher explore themes six to ten, moving beyond process and practice into the relational, cultural and leadership dimensions of family-led decision-m...
Rich and Tim on Family Group Decision Making: Power, participation and family leadership
In this episode, Richard Devine and Tim Fisher explore the first five themes of Family Group Decision Making (FGDM), unpacking the philosophy, values and practice wisdom behind one of the most significant relational approaches in children's and...
Peter Block: relationships, resistance and the relevance of 'Flawless Consulting'
Flawless Consulting by Peter Block has sold more than a million copies and is widely regarded as one of the most influential books ever written about consulting. But what can a business classic teach social workers, practice leads, and...
Lee Crouch, a parent with lived experience of reunification: what social workers need to know
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/Tim...
Practice lessons from the death of Victoria Marten (Part 2)
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/Tim...
Practice lessons from the death of Victoria Marten
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: h...
Connecting Research: Why social workers turn a blind eye and avoid mental pain in child protection
Why do experienced professionals sometimes fail to see what is right in front of them? In this episode of Connecting Research, we explore Margaret Rustin's influential analysis of the Victoria Climbié case and her argument that profess...
Rich and Tim on uncertainty, relationships and 14 lessons from practice
In this episode of the Messy Social Work Podcast, Rich and Tim discuss Richard's recent blog, 14 Lessons from 11 Years at Bath and North East Somerset Council, written as he prepares to leave frontline children's social work aft...
Ex-undercover police officer on why the war on drugs is failing
In this episode, we’re joined by former undercover drugs officer Neil Woods to explore the ideas at the heart of his book Good Cop, Bad War. Drawing on over a decade working covertly inside drug markets, Neil gives a sobering account o...
Gareth K Thomas, foster carer, on trauma informed parenting
In this episode, we sit down with foster carer Gareth K Thomas to explore his experiences of caring for children who have lived through trauma, and what it really means to offer trauma-informed care in practice.Gareth shares honest refle...
Headlines from Mithran Samuel’s, and speak to social worker Ellen
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions:
Rose Byrne on her upbringing, caring for her sister and being diagnosed with ADHD
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: h...
Maddy McCormack (Social Worker) on the realities of Child Protection Social Work
In this episode, we speak with Maddy McCormack, a social worker early in her career, about the realities of stepping into practice with children and families.Maddy reflects on her route into the role, what day-to-day social work actually...
Sharon Shoesmith about Baby P, blame and learning from tragedies
In this episode, we sit down with Sharon Shoesmith to revisit one of the most defining and contentious moments in modern child protection: the case of Baby P, and the national reaction that followed.Sharon reflects candidly on what...
An introduction to Systemic Ideas in Social Work with student Natasha Dube and author Liz Bosanquet
In this episode of the Messy Social Work podcast, we begin with a conversation with Natasha Dube, before Rich and Tim discuss Liz Bosanquet’s new book, Systemic Social Work Practic...
BONUS Episode: Rich and Tim discuss time management (Part 2)
In this second bonus episode, Rich, Tim and Charlotte build directly on Part 1, turning their attention to the four remaining ideas from Rich’s blog on resilience in social work and exploring how these play out in practice.The conversati...
Time management ideas that DEFINITELY & FINALLY allow you to get on top of your work
This episode explores time management as both a practical challenge and a lived experience in social work. Rich shares techniques such as Stephen Covey’s urgent and important quadrants, Cal Newport’s time blocking and the difference between dee...
BONUS Episode: Rich and Tim discuss what Rich learned from 6 years of journaling (Part Two)
This bonus episode picks up where the previous conversation left off. Rich and Tim return to six years of journals to explore the next three themes that emerged — the ones that didn’t fit neatly, resolve cleanly, or offer easy lessons....
Rich and Tim discuss what Rich learned from 6 years of journaling
In this episode, Rich and Tim sit down with six years of personal journals and ask a simple but uncomfortable question: what actually changed?They focus on the first three themes that stood out when Rich reread everything back.<...
Care experienced psychotherapist, Jamie Crabb on suffering, care, and staying with what we don’t yet understand.
In this episode of Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim are joined by therapist and writer Jamie Crabb to explore his powerful article Care, and Being Seen in the Presence of the Enigmatic.Jamie reflects on what care really ...
Janet Kay OBE about her experiences as a social worker, adoptive parent and kinship carer
Janet Kay is a prominent kinship carer, trustee for the charity Kinship, and OBE recipient who advocates for families in England raising r...
Professor Jonathan Scourfield on what the largest-ever Family Group Conference study reveals
Professor Jonathan Scourfield is a leading UK academic in social work, currently based at Cardiff University. His work spans child welfare, social care inequalities, suicide and self‑harm research, and working with men across the life course&nb...