The Quarterly Fitness Forecast Presented by ABC Fitness

"The 2nd Quarterly Fitness Forecast" presented by ABC Fitness recorded in March 2024, brings together an expert panel to discuss finance, trends, challenges, and innovations shaping the fitness landscape. Featuring  Mark Mastrov of New Evolution Ventures, Lisa Kuecker, CEO of Studio Grow, and Chris Smith, CEO of Fitness World, our discussion is segmented into four key areas, providing a comprehensive overview of the current state and future of fitness and wellness.

Segment 1: Industry Overview and Introduction
Our panelists kick off with an overview of the fitness industry's performance in early 2024, examining the impact of technological advancements and changes in consumer behavior. They address the slow start indicated by flat gym foot traffic and explore how gyms are adapting to meet new consumer expectations amidst an evolving economic climate. The discussion also covers strategies for sustainability and growth, given the current macroeconomic factors affecting the industry.

Segment 2: Connected Fitness Market Deep Dive
The conversation shifts to the connected fitness market, analyzing the implications of recent consolidations and acquisitions, including WaterRower's acquisition of CityRow. The panelists discuss Peloton's financial struggles and the bankruptcy filing by Bowflex, reflecting on the challenges of scaling in a post-pandemic world and the importance of diversification and alternative revenue streams for connected fitness brands.

Segment 3: Fitness Franchises - Successes and Challenges
This segment highlights the achievements and obstacles faced by fitness franchises, with a spotlight on Crunch Fitness's recognition in Entrepreneur’s 2024 Franchise 500 Ranking. The global merger between Orangetheory and Self Esteem Brands, creating a massive scale in the industry, is discussed, along with the role of private equity in franchise expansion and the sustainability of the franchise model.

Segment 4: GLP-1 Drugs - Financial and Strategic Implications for the Fitness Industry
Finally, the panel examines the rising popularity of GLP-1 drugs for weight management and their strategic and financial implications for the fitness industry. They discuss how fitness businesses can integrate these therapies into their offerings, the potential financial benefits and risks, and the emerging investment opportunities in the wellness sector that embraces a holistic health model.

Segment 5: Future challenges and opportunities
The episode concludes with a forward-looking discussion on the potential challenges and opportunities that lie ahead for the fitness and wellness industry. Our panelists share their insights on emerging trends, the evolution of consumer preferences, and the impact of global economic factors on the industry's future. They also explore the role of innovation in creating new market opportunities, the importance of inclusivity and accessibility in fitness offerings, and the potential for new business models that can adapt to the ever-changing landscape.

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Transcript

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Welcome to a special edition of All Things Fitness and Wellness. In today's episode, we're excited to present our second quarterly fitness forecast brought to you by ABC Fitness. With more than 31,000 clubs and studios, 542,000 coaches and trainers and 38 million members in over 100 countries. ABC Fitness is the fifth tech provider to the best in fitness, visit them at ABC Fitness dot com. Joining us today is a panel of fitness industry heavyweights ready to dive into the latest developments in finance, connected fitness franchising trends, and the significant impact of weight loss drugs on the industry. If you're eager for a snapshot of the fitness industry's current state, you're in the right place. I'm Krissy Vann, your host for today's quarterly fitness forecast on all things fitness and wellness. I am so thrilled at time of recording for this quarterly fitness forecast presented by ABC fitness. We are at Ursa which, of course, no longer IHRSA Health and fitness Association. I'm so pleased to have the three of you. I'm going to go around first and have everyone introduce themselves. No stranger here, Chris, tell people who you are. Thanks, Krissy. My name is Chris Smith. I'm the president and CEO of Fitness World Canada up in beautiful British Columbia. And I'm also one of the proud partners of the show, which is again all things fitness and wellness. And Lise we've had you on the podcast before but reintroduce yourself and Lisa Kuecker. I'm the founder and CEO of Studio Grow. We're a 51 man team largest currently boutique fitness consulting group in the world working in 43 countries and counting. Incredible I'm Mark That's awesome. Very good knuckles. Mark Mastro kind of a fitness entrepreneur around health and wellness. Been in the space for a few years, few decades, way too long. But all things around health and wellness. That was one of the most modest intros I've ever heard, I'm so pleased to have your expertise. And the thing that I love about the panel today is the fact that we have someone that of course, in big box gyms HVLP, you're so connected to boutique, and you have this great global perspective and a lot of great info for investors. So at time of recording, it's the month of March 2024 is rolling on, when it comes to the fitness trends. We know in January, we start to see a lot of predictions. So which are the ones that you are seeing actually gained steam as we roll through this year? Well, I saw in some different magazines that it was a year of the booty. And you know that and especially men were going to be training their booties, which at first glance, I was like, maybe. And what I can tell you is you know, I've invested in some very specific body builder equipment and that sort of thing, and really kind of continue to tweak and evolve our footprint in our facilities and whatnot. And they weren't wrong. So as we've put these areas of equipment into our clubs, they're being heavily used, and specifically by men. Yeah. And so it's definitely, I think, becoming an area of the of the body. And, you know, when we think about core training, everyone else thinks, Oh, that's my abs and my lower back. But core training is so much more than that in terms of a strong foundation or whatnot. So that's something that I kind of at first was a little bit curious about. But we'd already made some of these investments. And they're paying dividends to the sense of back to like the financial side of it. Like it's bringing guests to our facilities people are showing up, because they know we have that equipment as an example. And they can train the way they want to train. So it's interesting, how about from the boutique fitness perspective, because I know Pilates has been the word of the year with a massive resurgence. I mean, whoever owns reformer Pilates equipment, companies should be very happy right now. So I think anything equipment based is tending to work really well. So reformer Pilates, hot yoga, when you consider heat as a form of equipment. You know, equipment based hit studios, private training has continued to rise. And I think the exploration from moving from group and small group training to private training, that's only going to continue, but for me some of the most important things that that we've seen has been the rise of the called the implementation of longevity labs within within boutique fitness studios. So looking at the body very much in the form of concierge fitness, much like we're thinking concierge medicine, you know, can we track? If you're using one leg more than the other? Are we looking at grip strength? Are we looking at how you're balanced on two feet? You know, we're really looking at longevity markers more and more and longevity. We can call it a trend. But I mean, I think that that's just here to stay. At this point. We're in the preventative health industry. And we're moving towards this. And so I foresee that those longevity, the ability to capture this the ability to implement it in studio, it's going to be some of the key treatment trends we're gonna see not just this year, but for the next five to seven years. And Mark, I'm going to kind of switch it up for you because I know Bloomberg came out with an article in the beginning of February that basically stated that things were quite flat At into January for a lot of the gyms out there it had a bit of a negative blanket in regards to the health of the industry, what were your thoughts or your takes on that article, if you did have a chance to have a look, I mean, while stuff I read, I just kind of value as fake news and not really sure where the data comes from. So I just have to go to see what we might have. So we took a look at the companies we have. And so we have our own traffic counts. Most of our brands are up over 20% over prior year. So it was like phenomenal compared to what was reported for exponential and planet both being flat. So we were like, wow, we're up 23% And a couple of our brands. And then the other one is that there's some outside groups, I forwarded this to a lot of our teams that do phone counts, so they have people's cell phone data that they let them track off of. And they published their study. And their studies showed that our brands were up over 20%. And so you started thinking like what was the report that planet put out on their own stats and exponential accurate? For whatever reason, they were both flat. So I'm not sure why. But our brands are up dramatically in January and very strong in February. So we were pretty happy about that. But, you know, I kind of take a lot of news with a grain of salt. Fair enough, and just more from a global perspective, because I know I went to one of the talks during Ursa now health and fitness Association from ABC fitness. And they were saying in North America, January starts were down by minus 3%. But when you looked in, I believe it was Latin America, it was up 20 some odd percent. So would you say that's a little bit reflective? When you take that zoom out that we're seeing some of the broader markets? Yeah, so then you have to throw that curveball. So when it's winter in North America, what is it in Latin America, it's summer. And so then you go to the cultures. So what's really interesting is that we operated in Scandinavia. And the best months in Scandinavia, like in British Columbia, are not January, February. They're September and October, when people come back from their vacations. It's like, why is that? Because they want to get ready for ski season, they want to look good as they go into the winter. It's not the opposite. North Americans want to look good for the summer. Right? So when you get down to Latin America, they want to look good in the summer. And so they train very heavy in the summer months, because we've had operations in Latin America, we've been down there. And so we saw bigger spikes in June, July, August, sometimes, in some countries versus January, February, March, in Latin America is very strong in the early part of the year, because it's summer, if people want to be in great shape, look good, be on the beach, and get ready for the vacation. So it's just a cultural thing. So it's hard to compare, having said that, in the people I've talked to, most people are feeling pretty good about q1 So far, to date. But I think some of the bigger groups are a little flat, but most are the ones that are hustling are doing pretty well. Well, on to your point, a headline generally gains traction when it has more of a negative connotation to it. So it really is important to dig a little bit deeper and beyond that. I'm curious from the two of you when it comes to consumer behavior, because we're starting with an overview here, as we're heading into 2024. We saw obviously, that dreaded word pandemic where people were really in hybrid or switching to at home. So what would you say the consumer appetite is right now we'll start with you, Lee say, I mean, I think the first thing to recognize is, without a doubt, we've had the largest consumer behavioral shift since World War Two. And we just need to accept that and recognize that. Two major things when it comes to consumer behavior, we're seeing an element and at least boutique fitness of trade down behavior, spending is actually up growth is actually up. It's been a phenomenal first quarter and most of boutique fitness. But people are using facilities less now and boutique fitness, the gold standard has been an unlimited membership, we would really recommend to most people to start reviewing whether that's still the case. So trade down mentality they're buying, they're buying less. So there may be coming once or twice a week, the unlimited membership no longer nearly as important. ClassPass has done a good number of getting people to want multiple different facilities and to have a bit of one community and a bit of this community but at that community. So I think in that sense, consumer behavior looks a lot different. But if we go beyond that and look at you know, the shifts from Gen Z, baby boomers, what we're seeing that that's bringing to the market, I think that boutique fitness in particular is going to look very different in the next couple of years and very different this year alone, and how we're marketing how we're going to reach out and how we're going to attract people to stay. Yeah, fair enough. Well, how about yourself, Chris, what are you seeing? Yeah, I think for us, you know, we try to do a really good job of just understanding how the consumer is moving by even asking those that don't join our facilities, in terms of what are you looking for what would have maybe made this experience different for you? And really just trying to you know, keep moving along with obviously, all the publications and all the research that you see others doing, but you got to validate right in your own marketplace and understand your consumer and but we're seeing you know, again, in our space, which we compete in kind of HQ LP space, we're finding that people are very excited to, you know, get started and want to take that journey. And what we're able to do, generally speaking is provide an experience where then we're also seeing a big uptick, that are upgrading, because they kind of get in the door, they want to get started, we get to move in a little bit, right? And then that starts to make them looking better, feeling better, all the things go with it. And then from there, they're like, Well, what about this recovery stuff, because I've never really thought about that before. Oh, you have red light therapy. I've never thought about that before. And so those kinds of creative add ons kind of keep coming in and playing into it a little bit. And so again, we're leveraging data. We're leveraging you know, all of our kind of a waterfall reports and member communication, to kind of help influence good decision making as it relates to what we know, their goals are based again, on what consumer insight is telling us. Well, and I think now more than ever, people have that perspective and understanding that your health is your responsibility. And out of all the industries, this is the one that can champion that. And the thing that's so nice, even being like an event like Ursa again, health and fitness Association, now, you can sense that unified voice, which is only going to hammer that home for your consumers, ultimately, that will be walking through the door that this is the avenue to do it. That being said, as we look at this overview, the economic climate has changed for all of you, especially as owner operator, so I'm going to throw this over to you Mark, when it comes to inflation, interest rates, what's the temperature check in the environment now? Because you said a lot of these places are having a strong q1, but the climate has really not necessarily been that appetizing when it comes to interest rates and what things are costing these days. Yeah, so the conversation on q1 is memory usage, right? So members are coming in, and they're using the facilities more than they were in the prior years. Now you're coming out of the pandemic. So some of that's just people reengaging, getting more comfortable coming back to boutique or to gyms and feeling comfortable in that environment. When you get to the inflation side of the house. Yeah, costs are rising, and every component in the gym that's humanly possible, every business, whether it's a restaurant, whether it's somewhere else. I saw an ad the other day where one of the states is trying to pass a law where the minimum wage would be $50 an hour. And so this guy did this small bid on it walking into a restaurant saying I'd like to buy a burger, please. And a fast food restaurant. They said yes, what would you like I like fries and a shake. Here you go to be $120. And so inflation is really generated off of in my opinion, wages, and there's been massive wage increases in all areas in most states and federal levels in every country. And so as the wages go out, there trickle down effect is increased cost to produce, deliver, develop. So we're facing that. And then we have to do a better job in our businesses at retaining people in ancillary areas to generate more income and revenue. And then to ensure that we can be profitable in the face of this inflationary period. When it comes to interest rates, hopefully, you're not borrowing too much money, right now you're living off of your past debt, and it's at a lower level that you're at. So you've got debt that you bought in 1920 2122, even. And that's at two 3% interest and not floating off of the current interest rates. But having said that, it's interesting times, you know, there's no doubt people are trying to find ways to cut labor and improve their cost areas cost containment and management, at the same time, drive profitability in that environment, which isn't always so easy. Yeah, fair enough. I mean, I know one thing we've talked about before generative AI is obviously helping in a huge capacity when it comes to those labor shortages, but it's not going to solve every problem. Lee's a kind of on that note, because at Studio grow, you have the opportunity to work with so many boutique owners on the ground. How do these economic conditions impact pricing because not only as owner operators are these measures impacting your costs, but your consumer may be feeling the impacts as well when it comes to spend? So I think let's start internationally for just a second. So Europe and particularly the UK, we're dealing with massive utility hikes, given that many of our studios are heavily reliant, especially look at hot yoga on power, we're now getting studios that might be 3000 square feet, who have 4000 5000 pound a month utility bills, that's not uncommon, but pretty much everyone's bills has tripled or quadrupled since then, and that trickled throughout Europe that we're dealing with us and as small business owners, I think those types of costs have been more jarring than just about anything because they're truly are out of their control. When it comes down to how we're pricing people differently, yes, I mean, we've got to go up in prices. You know, I still remain shocked. I come from a big restaurant family when you when you start a restaurant they pull in a pricing expert. Your prices are tweaked and adjusted every six 912 months. You're looking at at at putting out the best the ideal product with the highest profit margins and A lot of this is going to be having our industry also be willing to say, hey, there's an art and a science, there's behavioral economics that go on behind this, that we need to be considering. And we need to be looking really what we're putting in front of the consumer, how we're pricing and packaging, what the product stack is, to encourage someone, as you said, to move from, let's say, this initial membership, to purchase personal training to invest in ancillary services, how is this going to flow through and you know, on a domestic level, as lovely, lovely as those interest rates are, and they're painful, I just bought an office building. It's terrible. You're feeling mudding and feeling the sting, it was really an ugly moment. But you know, in reality, I have not seen it stop. Many of our consumers, I do think where it's it's halting is, as you said, in the growth, we're seeing an enormous amount of growth, we're unfortunately also seeing the highest commercial rental costs I've ever seen. We just have one of our clients sign, a 100 $100 square foot lease, which is the first I've ever seen it works with their p&l Is it works with their projections, it's feasible. But those are the issues as we look like how this moves five to seven paces out there, we're going to see some real issues. How about yourself, Chris and an HVLP market, because obviously, your consumers are looking for that low cost, high value, but again, to deliver on that, there may have to be some changes. And again, I think that, you know, regardless of what category you you know, position your business and wherever your passion is, and whatever, you know, your belief system is and mission, vision and all the rest, you know, there is room for everyone. So whether we're talking about boutiques, whether we're talking about HVLP, if we're talking about luxury lifestyle, you know, I think for a lot of our consumers, we're also trying to help them is on that journey back to fitness and wellness, whatever, I think what we have seen and will continue to see to a large degree is there's like graduation steps along some people's journey. And I would say, you know, pre pandemic to now I think it was very common, where people would have 12345 memberships, sometimes maybe to one or two boutiques plus to commercial gyms plus plus. Whereas now, you know, that's much more reduced. However, I do think people are kind of moving through, like a different ecosystem. And so yeah, it just comes down to what is your value proposition? And where does that fit. But again, I still think that there's market share and wallet share the industry, you know, if you look at it from 2005, to now, there's been consistent even through the recession, even through the pandemic, the average through this whole period of time, when we even look ahead a few years, it's still 6% growth for the entire industry, right, we'd all like that to be better. We'd like to see more, of course. But the reality is, whether you're on Wall Street, or whether you're an operator, all businesses are growing, right? So high tides are rising all ships, regardless of where you sit within the ecosystem. So for us, you know, we're passionate about what we do, we play in our sandbox, if you will, because we can only control we control, but like, if I hear that boutiques are doing great, I'm excited for him, because that means that's reciprocal for the industry, if I hear that the luxury lifestyle clubs are doing amazing, I'm like, well, that's great for everybody as well, because that means that more people in the ecosystem, their kids are gonna grow up around fitness and wellness, and they're gonna want to participate. And so that that's kind of my thinking around, you know, it's not just my business, it's kind of the whole ecosystems kind of how I think about it. Well, I'm hearing that growth Mark, when it comes to attracting capital in the current climate is that something that you feel there's a strong appetite for, and if you're a business owner entrepreneur is easier to seek in this climate, or perhaps more challenges or difficulties is a tremendous amount of capital on the sidelines, you know, people have a lot of cash to invest, they've been hoarding cash. And so, you know, really boils down to how strong your businesses so in the boutique, if you've got a good facility of 5678 locations that performing really well and you want to grow, you're gonna probably have a very good opportunity to raise capital. If you're a one or to Mom and Pop not performing really well, you're in a different situation, you're probably looking to be acquired, or you're trying to buckle down and grow your business better. But capital is available on an equity basis on the debt side is there but you know, raising capital for debt is much different than it was five or 10 years ago, it's a lot more difficult questions that they ask now in light of some of the bank failures in the last few years, the hoops you have to go through to raise 125 $10 million, is probably three times as long as it once was, and probably two to three times more difficult than it once was, what would be some of those primary hoops that you've seen people frequently encounter a great question, do you have audited financials or not? A lot of small businesses don't so it's like, gosh, oh, how do I know your numbers are accurate? You know, and then are you gonna give a personal guarantee? Do you want to guarantee this loan? And you know, I always advise people try not to do that because the world may end you know, you never know, hey, we learned that already. So you got to be very careful if you want to give a personal guarantee. And then what are the conditions of the debt? You know, is it up against Prime working continue to go up Is it locked in for a certain number of years? Are there covenants that if you have a ratio between your equity and your debt that they could default you and take your business away from you. So it's all the kind of numbers that kind of come with that debt and the facility that you acquire. So you have to be very cognizant of how you're negotiating that paper, not just taking whatever they give you. Because you could end up losing your business to somebody or, you know, not being able to pay the debt service, you know, the interest rates should go up your 100,000 a month payment, but it'd be 125 150. And if your business is not performing, next, you knows you're upside down. And again, if you gave a personal guarantee, you know, what did you use to give that personal guarantee was your home cash in the bank? So a lot of things come with it. If it's a bigger piece of debt, it's really just about the covenants that the bank requires. What are you going to agree to or not agree to? When it comes to that and you better have a good strong financial team or advisor to ensure that you sign a good piece of paper before you take the debt in? Yeah, it doesn't seem like a place to skimp on soliciting some expert advice before you venture down that route. This quarterly fitness forecasts wouldn't be possible without our friends at ABC fitness, discover ABC ignite gym management software and learn whites the trusted solution for more than 8000 clubs, and 24 million members learn more at ABC fitness.com. You know, you spoke to acquisitions there, and we're gonna switch over to connected fitness because obviously that is a market that we saw exponentially thriving through the pandemic. And lately, we have seen a lot of acquisitions taking place and a little bit of instability in that market. There was just waterrower acquiring city row that happened just in the beginning of this year. And there's been many examples. So I'll see who wants to bite out of this one. But what do you feel is driving this consolidation in the connected fitness market, there is a big appetite tight for acquisition and a period of time. So Beachbody car on the team there was really acquiring most of it. So they had a lot of capital public company, multi billion valuation, they were merging people in stock, equity, cash, whatever it might be. So they were doing a lot of work and then a lot of the smaller groups were starting to find a following. Pilates yoga bar did a phenomenal job getting people involved to do exercise at home. But while the world of I called peloton said you know the world is ending gyms are no longer going to be valid. It's all about connected fitness, and they shouted that out. Soon as everybody got back to the gyms they came roaring back. And they kind of connected guys fell back a little bit and peloton and others suffered greatly because they were not accurate in their predictions. People love community. I like riding on my peloton bike once a while I like doing connected fitness at home once a while, but I really want to be in a setting where I'm motivated. And there's noise. I hear Chris Smith grunting and screaming and yelling when he's throwing some bench pressing 150 kilos. And we're all sitting there like what the hell, this is exciting. I want to be in that environment. So that's what drew people back in. There's space for connected fitness for the leaders, is there a continued consolidation, maybe every brand has to have it, you kind of have to have something that you can support with your member base so that they feel like they have an option at home and abroad when they're traveling if they want it. But there's so much fun stuff to do, outside of connected that, to me, it's a luxury, not a not a need for me. Other people love being at home and just exercising now and they feel more comfortable there, which is great. As long as you're getting your exercise in. I've always said as long as I've been in this business, don't have to belong to a gym, play tennis, gonna park run, go play pickleball go bowling, do whatever, just be active burn calories, burn more than you ingest and you're gonna be healthy happy in life. So do good. Do good through health, wellness, fitness, find the botique of choice, find the gym of choice, you know, find your, your main place that you're enjoying life and then continue to exercise in any way that you can on a daily basis. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And there's no time limit on changing that life. I've told the story many times but pickleball my mom was very isolated, moved to a new city wasn't very active, knew she had to do something and joined a pickleball league. And now if I try and visit her it's impossible to schedule between Well, I've got awkwafina at this time and a coffee of this time and it all stemmed from that one decision and finding what resonated. But getting back to the connected fitness land just to your point I mean, I know earlier this year we saw peloton shares plummet by 24% That was early February Bowflex, just shout filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy so it's definitely a market that's been hit. I'm curious from on the ground in actual boutique fitness or in the gym. How has that switch impacted you because I would venture to guess that perhaps it's a positive that people are shifting gears back I think there's been a volatility in this for the last year and a half. And I can say that I questioned some of the decisions some of these companies have made, you know, just personally, when I look at them, I'm fighting going, why this? Why that it doesn't seem it's driving them to the end goal. But I think that yes, of course, everybody coming back into facilities is great for us. I think we were shocked. In fact, how many people roared back in. I do think it's opened up though, at least in boutique fitness, a market that has, you know, very specific pieces of equipment, and opportunity to lease or bring in your own brand and sell this I'm, I'm shocked more reformer Pilates studios are not purchasing 50 and 100. reformers, leasing them out to different customers, because we've now done this very successfully, and saying, Hey, you can join our online platform, we will do a lease on your reformer for X, Y, and Z. You've got brands like bout who are bringing the connected in studio, and that the boxing bag with a brain Morrow is doing a great job of building up very unique, I'll call them smart studios, a studio that really is less reliant on on on all of the people you would typically need and more reliant on the gamification that's built within. So I'm also curious how we bring this into the studio and into the facility. So that it's not just an at home product, but it's something that's a crossover, because that seems like that has legs to ultimately grow, in many ways. Yeah, even that gamification, I think it's gonna just open up Yeah, and the innovation, right? I mean, if that's an AI and AI driven studio, I mean, you know, how you how you can push and go from there, there's opportunities to really layer this in, and not have it just be something that's, you know, home based or this and that. And I'm curious how we start to interweave that technology within? Well, in speaking to the people problem that we spoke about earlier, when it comes to having staff, you know, initially a lot of the conversations were front desk, obviously, and your correspondence could be solved through AI. But when we speak to how these interactive, smart gamification of fitness, instructor shortages have been just as much problematic. And as much as you want people to grow and thrive and have a career path. These are just realities that we're facing in the financial climate, and it's going to happen, so we might as well lead the way. I think what I would add is, you know, what I'm seeing or my perspective is, so again, Vancouver, BC, it's one of the most beautiful places, if you've never been able to come at the same time, it's one of the most expensive places that you can be. So when you just look at cost of living, and you know, people often talk about wallet share. But when you look at the average square footage, or square meters that someone's living in, there's not space for connected fitness, there's no, there's no space for a bike. It's like, no, it hangs on the wall, and there's no space, that's where the bed is. And it folds down into the living room with no walls, 600 square feet, she can attest to it, right. And so it's real, and it's palpable. And so I think that that, in itself makes it a bit of a challenge. And I do agree from the hybrid perspective in terms of, you know, where, you know, meeting your members where they're at. And so obviously, technology plays a huge role, whether we're talking about cell phones, or the the iPads or whatever connected device they may or may not use. And so yeah, if you've got content that you believe in, that's branded to your business that aligns, again, with mission vision, and all the things you're trying to accomplish. I think that's where you're meeting the members where they're at. And so, you know, I know we do something, you know, crunch has a great online ecosystem as an example, you know, planets launched a whole bunch of stuff in that space, and I think made some strategic hiring decisions around, you know, how they think about that space, just the same. But, yeah, there's a lot of opportunity there. So I think that's where most businesses are trying to figure out, right, and I still think it's, it's not early days, as Mark would say, that's a phrase I've stolen from him over the years. But I think we're still learning, right? We're still learning, like, really, where's the sweet spot, and I don't know that anyone's fully cracked the code there just yet. Well, and even when you just speak to the demographics that use it, I just had a thought there. And when we talked about the loneliness epidemic, as well. And Gen Z, obviously, is growing so much in our gym spaces. And it's so they're our biggest champions, like I watched that demo, they get it, they understand that it's for mental health. But I also think that the amount of exposure they've had to screen time through growing up, they are the ones that have as much as we give them the most. And it's our podcast, we can say it, we give them the most shit. But at the same time, they're the ones that actually want to engage and have that human experience. They're having problems with dating, they're having problems with friendships, they're having problems meeting people. And so I think that's why they actually aren't really be adopters necessarily have that connected that are going to have the peloton in the corner. They want to be there and mingling and socializing and our gyms and I see it just on the ground. Yeah, I mean, I think you could make an argument with a digital revolution. Millennials in some ways destroyed Main Street and Gen Z is here to bring it back. I think all of us have Gen Z children. I think there are saving grace on where this goes on. And they're leading how we market. But beyond that, you look at Gen Z, they've gone through two recessions, many of them have dealt with the after effects of having parents or grandparents that are living with preventative disease and obesity, and all of the ramifications of comes from not having a healthy lifestyle. And then you add a pandemic onto that. And it's not a shock. I mean, the data is very clear that the second largest investment that a Gen Z individual will make is in health and fitness. I mean, they're going to lead our industry for it, and they have a real reason to, because they've seen what happens when you don't. We'll take a brief pause to thank our sponsor, ABC, Ignite transforms, fitness management, streamlining operations, enhancing revenue, and delivering profound insights built for innovative club operators, Ignite ensures efficiency and member centric experiences, Learn more at ABC fitness.com. Or 1,000%, we're gonna get to the whole GLP one and obesity conversation through this podcast. But before we venture there, I want to talk franchise and it's one of those things you prepare for a podcast. And inevitably big news comes down the pipeline. And I understand there could be some sensitivities around this discussion. So whoever would like to bite by all means, but orange theory and self esteem brands, they obviously made their announcement in recent days at time of recording. So massive scale, obviously 3.5 billion and system wide sales, 7000 locations 6.5 million global members with them coming together. So I know that in some reports, people were saying this is surprising news. So what's the temperature check here? A bunch of different answers. So Roarke is the capital provider and partner behind selfesteem brands, and they're a franchise, a conglomerate they focus on and specialize in franchising, and they basically have a bunch of franchise groups that acquire amalgamate under one banner. So this is what they do, they're really good at it. So whether it's restaurants or fitness, you know, you got a really good team at anytime that's developed the brand and globally, that's also facing heavy competition based on each market, whether you're in Australia and Asia, and they're facing it against jets, who has a similar number of locations, the same footprint. So it's an interesting kind of competitive landscape. What I really like about the acquisition for them is Orangetheory has phenomenal technology. And so they do a really good job at understanding who the consumer is, and all the IT and information behind it. So the technology is a really nice acquisition for for, I call it anytime but self esteem. So that makes a lot of sense. And then obviously, orange theory is trying to figure out how do they grow their footprint, and to grow internationally, it's not easy, it's not easy. It's very, very difficult. And I know they've entered some markets have had some success. I know they've entered some markets and not had success, because you underestimate like the Europeans, the Europeans like to get on a bike and ride a bike on the streets. And in the mountains, they don't like going into the studio. So you think, you know, studios like SoulCycle and, and you know, cycling no longer can we say the word spinning, but it's going to be popular in Europe, but it's not as popular because the people that like I'm not going into the gym, I'm going onto the road is snowing and raining, I'm still going on to the road. So it's a different cultural experience. So I think Orangetheory was trying to navigate that and the groups at any time those guys have phenomenal experience market after market and they already have franchisees and market. So there's something there that makes them come together. That's really exciting for them. And they know best they have to go execute now and figure out how to basically roll it out. But I think it's a good marriage, I think those two groups coming together is going to be a really good thing. So I'm happy for them happy for the industry have more people to experience those brands as they kind of get out there and grow. So I think it's a plus plus for both sides. What are the economics where they inquire for what kind of stuck do they get? How are they going to exit? I have 1000 questions for them. When asked them here, because if they're not going to be a public company, you know, you can be locked into that thing forever. A lot of times you come to me and say Mark, I'm going to merge into my company. I'm like, Well, how long am I going to be your partner. And I can show you situations I have now where I've been a partner for 15 years with no exit and no exit coming. I've got a company I'm involved in that is a monster multibillion dollar company. And I don't know if I'll ever see a dime because my socks is gonna sit there till I die. It'll go to my kids when they finally do something. So you have to be careful about sometimes coming together because sometimes there's no way to get out. I mean, they're so big. I mean, the IPO makes sense to me if that's the place where they're going. I think it's a brilliant move for Orangetheory Anytime Fitness knows international like no other. I mean they have and they've been laying the groundwork for probably 15 years at this point. I mean, they were really the first to understand and do it well. I think interesting enough for Anytime Fitness You know, they've dabbled in boutique, they own the Bar Method. They have base camp. They've been just touching it to this market, and it's clear that they're interested in building that. And so bringing orange theories Orangetheory knows how to run studios well, and how to build profitable studios. That's not the norm across many franchises and boutique fitness. I mean, it's profitable Studios is a problem. We just don't talk about it. And so the fact that they're going to offer these two things, Orangetheory also is going to get a mass opportunity with a huge number of Anytime Fitness franchisees who've already showed, they like to diversify. I mean, when you look at who's buying base camp, when you look at who's buying Bar Method who's buying Waxing the City, they tend to cross populate across brands, and so to have access to, I don't know, 3000 franchisees or so, plus a remarkable network of of master franchisors internationally, you're gonna crush it, that's where the rubber hit the rabbit hole kind of combination of the two groups and the others, as they grow it out. Can they become a public company? Do they want to be a public company, or no public company, you have to look at exponential out there. You know, its, its difficulties in its stock valuations. I know Anthony's doing all he can to drive it forward. And, and the numbers look promising, but they still aren't above them, and Doza line lifetime, you know, phenomenal companies throwing off tremendous cash performing at the highest levels, and their stock is still below IPO value. So you look at that and say do I bring my company public and create liquidity but am I am I going to be able to grow my, my stock, that's, that's the hard part as a public company in our industry. That's why I've never been a big fan of public offerings. But you can create liquidity that way for sure, which is nice. But you know, when you look at the comps out there, right now, the multiples are not really high, they're not not super exciting, I talked to Brahma karate, and he's constantly like, I'm killing it, but I can't get my sock up. And he will eventually he's awesome operators, eventually, lifetime will grow. But that's the tough part about finding that exit. And when you get so big, you know, 789 10, but whatever you want to call it, there's no buyer. So that's why I was worried that, you know, I kind of teased Orangetheory maybe locked into that for life, at some point works gonna want to exit and maybe the public offerings, the outcome, but it'd be fun to watch from the outside looking in. I'm always curious what those big buyers will also look like, I mean, are we eventually going to have an Apple Health, or someone like that that's looking at this, that's from a much bigger level that we can't even imagine who wants the data? And everything else as much as they want? The people? I think, I think that's a good question and often wrestle with it, but I think they want to be agnostic, where they aren't in one group versus all. And so I think, you know, the world of, of apple and all the big guys, it's like, you know, we're just going to appeal to everybody, and continue to develop our watch, and all that comes with it. So you could take aura ring, you know, which is tremendous product out of Finland, you know, off of the Nokia platform, and has boomed at this multibillion dollar company. So you think Apple maybe will go acquire and bundle it in, but then you hear Apple's gonna build its own ring. So it's kind of weird that you know, us the way they all operate. But I think they want to be agnostic and kind of do their their thing. But we'll see. But I think it's the big question. I've always felt like, eventually that'll be asked, you know, as always was, will Nike get involved in the fitness industry? Turns out, yeah, yeah. And they opened a couple of studio beds, because Brian was the head of fitness for Nike. And he's spun off with Mike and they created that company, and they got a couple of studios, see if it can work. But will Nike get more involved? They've always been around Group X has been involved in that. But that's the stuff you have to figure out, you know, in time, we'll see. But what they're all missing is, is that, you know, we are a community based industry. And we have our finger on the pulse of what's really happening in the world today, with our member bases and our teams and Associates in the field, so we really know what the hell's going on. So if they want to figure it out, they're gonna need to come to us at some point, it's going to be a story that unfolds. But when it comes to franchise, obviously, there's been a lot of positivity in the space as well. We saw entrepreneur put out their lists, that crunch was number 29, out of 504 franchises, and there were many other fitness facilities that ended up on that list. So what do you feel has given crunched the competitive edge? I mean, I'm obviously familiar with a number of the people that are involved. And I think Mark's probably the best person to answer it. But yeah, I'm thinking they weren't only number 29. I think that's unlike all franchise businesses globally. But I think they were number one in fitness. So that, you know, again, using that phrase, crack the code, they've figured some stuff out. And I think, you know, others haven't I mean, I spent a lot of time you know, shopping everybody, right? To try to emulate best practices, what are they doing? Does that make sense in my market for my consumers, whatever. And so, you know, when you look at the HVLP 2.0, that model, what it does for consumers, again, back in meeting members where they're at, and the bundled services is this, there's a wide variety of directions you can go when you enter into that space and into that model, and then Again, I think they've done a tremendous job at a really on brand. Right. And so I think they've built a really robust ecosystem that people are excited about. You know, I talked to people I say, it's kind of like, what's your vibe, right? Everyone says, I'm a good vibes only, I'm a good vibes only guy. Well, I think the same is true in the fitness and health and wellness space. You want to go to places and spaces, they give you good vibes. So when you think about lighting, what is the lighting is their natural lighting? What is the music? What channel is on? How loud? Is it right? Can I? Is it loud enough where it gets me excited and gives me a little more motivated, but not so loud that I can't talk to my workout partner. And so I think they've been pretty thoughtful about what they've done and what they built. And again, they're a brand I've tried to emulate truthfully, right in terms of the work that I do in Canada, because I think that they've done a lot of things right for sure. Which, again, consumers and ultimately their franchisees, and I'm not even completely clear how they go about those rankings. But either way, they're number one, right? And so I think they're kind of paint a new path for people to chase after, which is exciting, because, again, that's evolution, right? That's growth for the industry. And that's what I'm most excited about, which I already kind of commented on right is, anytime we're getting better as an industry, then that's good for everybody. We're gonna take a moment for a quick shout out to our sponsor, whether an expansive multilocation enterprise or a boutique club, ABC ignite optimizes every aspect of your gym, enabling your team to deliver exceptional experiences to members visit them at ABC fitness.com. To learn more. Well, the industry we know is changing rapidly and especially when it comes to GLP. One so when exercise snacks bite sized science, we have had doctors on to talk about what it is, what some of the concerns are, what the side effects are. We know in your talk today, Mark, it was something that came up in the keynote. muscle loss is something that we've addressed very much on the podcast as well, which creates opportunity in the fitness space we have seen my aura and Equinox already create in house programs for this. So first of all, what are your thoughts on the model of people prescribing it in gym and trying to go that route? They're going to miss out on a massive opportunity. If they don't do I know if I feel entirely comfortable about the blend of that level of of medical practice. And this is very much a medical practice and fitness facilities. It probably wouldn't be my first choice. I'd rather see Functional Medicine and physicians that are focused on some other things first, but look, people are people want to be they want to be thin. I mean that that is it. And I think you know, that's been certainly at least in parts of the fitness industry. That's been our marketing. That's been our focus. That's been where people have been pushed and what they think we're therefore I tend to think that they're going to be very interesting tests that may work very well in certain sectors. I'm more concerned with the response to what do we do one with a muscular loss. I mean, I do think that marketing to people and partnerships with physicians that are largely prescribing this is going to be a key piece, I mean, I getting that ozempic Do they call it the ozempic slip or the slack, you can visibly see in people this doing so I think the programming changes around it are incredibly critical. I also think we got to remind people that there's a lot more benefits to exercise and just being thin. I mean, the mental benefits, like literally the neural pathways that you're building, like, physically wise, if this is where we stop. That's it. But but it's here to say it's relatively safe. If you're going to look at all of the studies and see this as far as we know, it's been in use for a while. It's going to be a really interesting, it's going to be a very interesting experiment over how far industry is willing to go. Yeah, everyone knows I have really mixed feelings over it. I understand that obviously, there is tremendous financial opportunity. And I equally can see that for those that have struggled with obesity and are exploring all the avenues. This is exactly because at the end of the day, if they're able to resolve that and get a handle, it's going to ultimately prevent more chronic diseases for them in the future, which actually will save money in health care systems as well as well as potentially save their lives. But exactly to your point. We know that that's not the only reason why people are utilizing these it is a lot of the I want to lose the 20 pounds before the event mentality and to a degree pop culture is marketing it in that big way as well. Obviously, Oprah's endorsement happened. But then there were several celebrities down the pipeline. One was one of the Osborne's and she was basically quoted saying I don't have the direct quote, but the essence of it was like I don't want to exercise Forget that. Why wouldn't I just do that? So there's a bit of a diluted and mixed up narrative. I think that's happening for the public. Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's their job, right? I mean, that's how they make a living. I'm sorry celebrities make Living by endorsements and, you know, whatever gets sound bites and that sort of thing. You know, and again, it is early days, and you're talking about like, so far side effects, whatever. But there are some legitimate side effects. And there's legitimate lawsuits that have now already been filed in multiple states, based on people that have had negative experiences. And so you know, when you think about behavioral change, or what does that look like? Or how do we really help people long term? Because, again, there's no really there's no path to get out, right? Unless you stave off the muscle loss and you do behavioral change work along the way. Some people might even need beyond the behavioral change of like building habitual patterns in a fitness facility, they might need like, why did they become obese in the first place, right, or what led them down that path? They might need like legitimate counseling or psychology, like there's, there's some real issues that people need to work through when we think about behavioral change and what's required. So, you know, I'll give you another perspective that I often think about, which is, I came really close to making it to the NFL, like I was right there, tryout camps, all sorts of things. I'm 49 years old, I've never had a drink of alcohol ever. And I've never had a any taste of tobacco. I've never tried any illicit drug. And so for me, again, I appreciate the folks that really it is an answer, meaning I've been morbidly obese my whole life, I've tried different things, I have thyroid issues, like there's a legitimate there are legitimate people that need this, and I get it, but for the vast majority people, I just look at it like yes, it's a it's a cheat code, but it's a cheat code that is frankly, unnecessary. Like, go put in the hard work, go put in the sweat equity, like fitness is earned and back to what you're earning. It's not about what you look like, right? It's about how you feel. And that feeling is not just around them, even the mental opening, you're gonna feel stronger, right? We're talking about longevity, it's going to increase your play, span your mobility, when you go do all the activities, whether we're talking about playing at the park with your kids or doing all these things, that drug is not going to help you with any of that. It's not going to help you with any of that. And so I appreciate it and kind of what it's doing. And yes, I do think there's financial upside for those that can participate. But again, I also think that depends on the country. I know for a fact, in Canada, there will never be a way for us to administer it, even if we wanted to. Right, it'll be medically protected, they will not allow them, you can't do cryotherapy in clubs in Canada, unless you have a doctor on site. So it's not even possible to partner with somebody, you literally have to have a doctor in the building with an office to do that, which again, in my category HVLP. That's not gonna happen, right. And so again, I definitely have a lot of thoughts and passion on this subject, but it is here, it's not going anywhere, right. So it's something we all got to learn from, and see where it goes. And that's where there's a little bit of skepticism, because when I think of the equinox model, and I know that they were really looking to design programming to take people along those behavioral change and build in all those foundations that you spoke to, but in my mind, and I hope the world proves me wrong. But I'm like, percentage wise for people to make behavior change. It's, it's not the majority. And I think even if they go that route, there still might be that lack of desire. That being said, I do think our spaces are the ones to at least give it a shot. And hopefully, even if it's a small percentage convert some people to actually instill those into their lives. Mark for you. I'm curious from the financial standpoint, because obviously, especially from the American perspective, getting insurance companies involved, I think of an article that I read that talked about big food, and how they're having to completely rethink their financial strategies, because they're already feeling a bit of a pinch from this because there is less appetite, figuratively and literally for the types of offerings they have. So how might this change the financial landscape in the fitness space, because as we addressed, this is here to stay. It does work. There are some downsides, but it does pair hand in hand with fitness to Chris's comment earlier it is early days. So if you look at the US, there's less than last report 250,000 people on ozempic Nobody. So even when the food article comes out, oh my god, people are losing weight and they're not going to eat and they're suppressing their diet. They're not buying food. I'm like 250,000 people out of 380 million, it's nobody. And maybe now it's half a million, who knows. But you know, what we do know is that this is a drug that was built around diabetes. And it was to reduce the sugar content in your blood in your system. And by doing so suppress your appetite. And there was a weight loss byproduct from this and so they started recognizing that and they moved it into weight loss and so it first got adopted by Hollywood and celebrities and doctors that say hey, we've got something that help you lose weight. There's some byproduct from it but you can lose weight, and then it's moved into mainstream issue is it's expensive. Issue is health companies don't want to pay for it. issue is the self insured companies which is most of America now. Self insuring their employee based doesn't want to fork out 1500 to $2,000 a month to help you lose weight and becoming a more productive employee, or more unproductive person. As Chris pointed out, there's this whole thing about obesity, right? The UK just came out with this study was unbelievable. And I don't know if you read it, but the study said that in the UK, people between the ages of 35 and 59 65% of them are obese. And one out of every six child under the age of 10 was obese, that breaks my heart the most honestly, you look at the numbers, right. But to me, LBC isn't BMI, it isn't body mass index or weight. What's your engine inside your body, because I know a lot of people that are are bigger, thicker, heavier, but their engines unbelievable, their hearts functioning perfectly, they just hit the obesity number. Because the way that we measure weight isn't based on fat and muscle, we live weights these days and people are full of muscle, it's a different thing. I'm in the theoretically the edge of obesity, I weigh 175 pounds, I'm five foot 10. Why am I obese? I my body fats like 10%. But I have a lot of muscle. Because I lift weights, I've always lifted weights. So we have to throw all this shit out. In the end, what we have to say is that this drug has benefits. Now, as we said earlier, it it affects muscle. And once you go on it, you really can't come off of it, because you come off of it, you're right back, but it does eat muscle and you're going to need to have resistance and weight training. And if you're doing Pilates, that's great. But you're going to need to go do something in the gyms and someplace push ups pull up something where you're going to do resistance training. So it's really interesting as it goes forward. I do think like I mentioned earlier, there's a company out of London called I prescriber x e x i. And it's led by a gal who was formerly the head of strategy for Apple. And so she's taking it into the healthcare community into our world. And the application is, we will help you navigate this by getting your employees or team members into gyms where they can measure their attendance and performance and send feedback to you to show they're actually working along with a drug to create, as Chris pointed out, you know, a change in their their habits and a change in direction they're putting effort in. And by doing so you can reward them with the program versus just not wanting to give it to him. So I think that a company like that, that will emerge will really help healthcare and our business kind of combine, it'd be awesome. So I think it's really interesting, but also want to point out one story, just just to point to the the world of equinox and lifetime and all these folks who have gotten into the bandwagon providing it thinking more people will join or maybe there's a buck to be made whatever Harvey and Brahm are looking at, I think, as a benefit to their employees. So I have a friend, and she's a cancer survivor. And she went on ozempic said, I gotta go try it. And she went to a spa, where they had a woman who was able to give the product to her, and didn't go to a doctor or anything. And then she took injections two or three, I think in her first month or so. And she got violently ill like, had to be in the hospital for two weeks. And it was really bad for and they said you shouldn't be on this product, having come through chemo and everything. So there is a risk that we're in the early days, and we need to be very careful on who's prescribing it. I like the Canadian system much better. We, as Jim people shouldn't be messing around with this right now. God bless those that are but there's not a space I'm going to enter into I don't feel comfortable in doing so. And I think it needs to be left to the professionals and under their guidance and tutelage versus somebody we hired to kind of implement it inside our four walls. Fair enough. And as they say, I've interviewed a couple of the researchers that have talked about the complications, and they are very real. And again, that's just my closing. And people know, I'm a little bit biased on the side of it. But I'm just kind of like if it's not something, if it is your last resort tool, I get it. But if that's not the case, when you think about the fact that C usage was type two diabetes, my dad was a type one diabetic, that's not something that you can reverse. It's auto immune, but the complications that they receive in the human body and you watch that play out why you would risk some of those complications for yourself voluntarily is beyond me, unless it's something that you genuinely really need. But again, I understand it's very lucrative. I know a lot of investors obviously have a strong appetite. And hopefully, we can be the voice where people do it the right way. And but I think it's going to take time to see how that unfolds. There's a place for it. Yep. And under the right system in time, it will be awesome. And for people who need it, God bless them. They should definitely get on the program. But it's early days and we You know, the smart folks on the medical side need to figure out how to implement this and combined with companies like I prescribe and xe in and help navigate them towards the right outcome, which is strength and resistance training inside some program, whether it's a gym or YMCA or home, whatever, someplace, they have to have that combination, and then they have to decide is this a lifetime drug that you go on? You know or not, it's kind of like, men that take testosterone boosters, and pellets and all that stuff. And once they get on that program, after two or three years of being on it, your body will no longer produce testosterone. And so you're on that product for life. Right? And so you have to make that decision with the knowledge of what the outcomes are going to be both medically, physically, morally, etc. And that's the space you're in right now. Not that I'm on any holy pulpit preaching here. I'm trying to play down the middle. But it's interesting, I think it's going to be a game changer in many ways. And this is just the beginning. Right? The Holy Grail has always been, can I take a pill and look like Brad Pitt? That's the Holy Grail. Right? So we've got cosmetic surgery to help you get closer to Brad Pitt. And now we've got a pill to get you nice and lean. And Chris Smith has the gyms to get you fit like Brad, but you can't do it without Chris, you gotta get your acid to a place and work as at the end of day where it is right. I think it's interesting. You know, we talk a lot about ozempic Here in the US. I travel around the world all the time. And I was sitting in Dubai recently and said something about ozempic at a at a table of very well educated people. And they all went What's that? You know, this is still something that's, you know, relatively new around the world. We'll take a moment for a quick shout out to our exclusive sponsor of the quarterly fitness forecast. at ABC fitness, the turn the vision you have for your fitness business into reality, discover their technology solutions for personal trainers, coaches, fitness studios, and traditional gyms and health clubs at ABC fitness.com. On that note, as we wrap up our conversation from each one of you, I just want to hear biggest opportunity and 2024 Biggest challenge biggest opportunity. Yeah, looking at smart growth is you know, the right way to go about it. And again, we're talking about a financial, you know, kind of podcast, again, sponsored by our friends at ABC, is again, we talked about like the debt and the banking and the interest rates and all the stuff that's out there. So you got to do it in a very, very smart, intelligent way. But certainly I think like most businesses, you know, you want to grow. And so that's the opportunity in front of us. And we're looking at how we can best do that intelligently challenge. Well, the challenge is the interest rates in the markets and the bank relationships. And again, to Mark's point on finding that right piece of paper that makes sense that you're agreeable to that, you know, yes, helps you grow. But you're still you know, well invested well protected, the covenants make sense, etc, etc, right? Biggest growth biggest challenge, we say, I think it's probably going to be the ability to really tap into the wearable data, the connected fitness that we have, and provide a far more personalized experience. I think personal training is going to become a misnomer, I think we're gonna see far greater levels of what personal training really can mean, in these coming years. Biggest challenge. I mean, from a marketing perspective, we're still really feeling out post iOS 14. So many different marketing channels that are emerging, what is really the best way to draw drive new leads through the door every single day consistently. And I think, starting to figure out what that landscape looks like and optimizing and maximizing across the fitness industry is going to be key along with the messaging that we need to provide for it. And Mark. Yeah, I think that's a great answer. So I'm on that page. I'm gonna throw out something very different for biggest opportunity. Pelvic Floor. Yes. Love that. Biggest opportunities, pelvic floor. And so many of my circle speaking of that, they're all just mums that have their kids. Yeah, massive, just awesome company coming out of Switzerland called pelvics. That has a product that's phenomenal. So I think pelvic floor is really interesting. I don't want to give long answers. But done in Santiago and Chile. I have a business down there. We sold a long time ago, my partner down there got a hold of me and said that the Chilean government ran a health survey with its population. And the number one issue that came back in the whole country was pelvic floor with women, over 6 million women had pelvic floor issues. So that's really interesting. I think so pelvic floor. I think if you look at the opposite side, the biggest challenge, United States, let's take one country, United States, I think it's the presidential election about to happen in November. Because starting in July, we're going to have a tremendous amount of media money being spent that's going to block everybody from doing what they need to do. And then we're going to see who the country wants to become because it's very bifurcated right now. It's unfortunate but there There's no two sides to this country is trying to figure out its ways it moves forward from an industrial nation to a service nation, because that's where we are right now. So I think that's really interesting on a global basis, that'll have ramifications because we're dealing with a lot of shit right now all over the world between Ukraine and Israel. It's just a little bit nuts out there. So I'm hopeful that we'll have a nice transition navigation into the political landscape. And that's, to me the greatest challenge as we go forward. Well, Mark Lee's a Chris, thank you so much for sharing your expertise on our second quarterly fitness forecast. So many great takeaways, and I really appreciate you all taking the time. Thanks for having us. Great to be here. Thanks, Chris. Great to be with people that know their shit. You've just listened to a special edition of All Things fitness and wellness hosted by Krissy Vann. This episode was presented by ABC fitness with more than 31,000 clubs in studios, 542,000 coaches and trainers and 38 million members in over 100 countries. ABC fitness is the fit tech provider to the best in fitness. Visit them at ABC fitness.com