Two Drinks In Again
Dave and Jeff have (at least) two drinks and talk about the goings-on in the Knoxville metro area. Sports, music, restaurants, movies, and really anything is up for discussion. Join us for some information and a lot of laughs.
Two Drinks In Again
Episode 53 - Managing People (Part 1)
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One bad hire can wreck months of progress. One unclear boundary can turn a solid team into a constant negotiation. We start with a little March Madness therapy, then get into the real reason we hit record: people management, leadership, and how to run a workplace where standards stay high and drama stays low.
Between us, we’ve spent decades managing in two very different worlds: an orthodontic practice and a high-demand operation that never closes. That contrast makes the lessons sharper. We talk about managing across generations, why you have to “shift gears” depending on who you’re talking to, and how emotion is always in the room even when the work feels purely operational. We dig into workplace culture, culture fit hiring, probation periods, onboarding and training, and why “trust but verify” is not cynicism but a necessary management tool.
We also get honest about the hard parts: wage pressure that tempts you to hire warm bodies, the difference between empathy and leniency, and the need for consistency when you’re tired and just want people to do their jobs. You’ll hear real stories about turnover, policy manuals written in response to very specific headaches, salary vs hourly incentives, and the unseen burden of business ownership, from insurance calls to dealing with fraud.
If you manage people, want to lead better, or just want to understand what your boss is juggling, this one will land. Subscribe, share it with a manager or teammate, and leave a review with the toughest people-management problem you’re facing right now.
March Madness Heartbreak And Rivalries
SPEAKER_02Tutoring Sinagan was not taped before a live studio audience.
SPEAKER_00Boy, oh boy, the midterms are gonna be interesting.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I should got you with that one. I got you.
SPEAKER_01I gotcha.
SPEAKER_04You had to put it.
SPEAKER_02Hello, friends. It's Jeff.
SPEAKER_03It's me. It's me, David T.
SPEAKER_02How are you doing, brother? Man, I'm great.
SPEAKER_00It's great to see you.
SPEAKER_02David and I have a free weekend because we don't care about the NCAA tournament anymore.
SPEAKER_00That's right. Fuck 'em.
SPEAKER_02Fuck 'em. Tennessee and Duke both lost in the Elite Eight.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02Uh, Duke, by what can only be described as a heartbreaker of a buzzer beater. You know what?
SPEAKER_00The cool thing about it, uh, it the Hurley's are now a part of probably the two greatest shots in the NCAA history. Well, and the especially going into the final four. Right. Right. Like his brother obviously saw Leitner hit the shot, and then now his brother was a coach of hitting the shot for Connecticut.
SPEAKER_02Well, the other interesting thing about that is that in 1990, in the I guess it would have been the sweet 16 game, Duke played against Connecticut. Yeah. Long history. No, no, it was the regional final. And Leitner with 2.6 seconds remaining. Half court, though, Leitner does an inbound pass to somebody else who passes it to him and he scores it at the buzzer. And so people are joking now, okay. So it's like 36 years later, Connecticut gets Duke back for that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Low-key uh a low-key serious rivalry there between Duke and UConn. It is.
SPEAKER_02No, I mean it and Danny Hurley comes across as a bit of a cock. But that's the Hurley brothers. Like, I'm watching him behave throughout the whole game and his emotions and everything. I'm like, okay, this reminds me of Bobby when he was a freshman. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Did you see the video? Like him like putting his look, it looked like he headbutted the ref at the end of the game. It wouldn't surprise me.
SPEAKER_02Jersey City, man.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, but I mean, like, if it as a Duke fan seeing that, you'd be like, Yeah. Like, why didn't he call a tag? It looks like he just legitimately headbutts him after the show.
SPEAKER_02If you want to get into the whole ref thing, you do I yes, the refs put their finger on the scale in the first half for Duke. I'm sitting there going, Yeah, I'm watching this, and at halftime I'm like, yeah, we're gonna pay for this in the second half big time.
SPEAKER_00So that's the way it usually goes.
SPEAKER_02So I don't, I don't, but I don't need to talk about it anymore. Duke lost, they had a great season. I I I don't think I like I've said Caden Boozer's gonna be rethinking those final 10 seconds for the rest of his life, but it should never have been in that situation in the first place at all. So yeah, um, anyway.
SPEAKER_00I was fine with Tennessee. I mean, Michigan's fucking phenomenal. If they win the whole thing, I wouldn't be sure.
SPEAKER_02I would not be upset by that either.
SPEAKER_00I mean, they're just I mean, they're that damn good. Um, and but they were playing with house mining for me. I wasn't expecting them to get that far. Right. Even when I was re-listening to our last episode when I was bitching and moaning about being a Tennessee fan and like, yeah, of course we lose. You know, it's tough to be a Tennessee ball. But it but you know, like, oh my gosh, three straight elite eights. That's that's amazing. That is that's a tough bill to fill, right? Well, and that's what I'm like people who I remember being in Thompson Mullen Areno when Wade Houston was coaching, and it was like you could hear the damn cheerleaders fart. Like I mean, we sucked. And for us to be a powerhouse the way that we are now, uh, it's just incredible, you know.
SPEAKER_02No, I mean, you know, and it's the same for Shire because this was his third straight elite eight. You know, and I mean, and he won back-to-back ACC attorneys, back-to-back ACC. Incredible job. I'm I'm like, and everyone who's shitting on him right now, I'm you know, I've seen the memes go up. They're like, okay, this was how many seasons it was before Dean Smith got his first title. Yeah. You know, I mean like let's let's keep it slow. All in perspective right here.
SPEAKER_00You know, and again, the shadow that he is coaching at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_02What he has done in four years has been nothing short of phenomenal. I have nothing hateful to say about John Shire. I hope he stays as long as he wants to stay.
SPEAKER_00And all this all that was is learning experiences. Yep. Guarantee he won't fucking lose it.
SPEAKER_02Should he've called a timeout? No, I don't think he needed to.
SPEAKER_00No, I think you want to run the clock out.
SPEAKER_02You want to run the clock out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they should have already known what to do.
SPEAKER_02Hold the ball.
SPEAKER_00But the moment happened and they it it you know, nerves. And one lucky shot. And one lucky shot.
SPEAKER_02The guy could have shoot that 12 other times and he'd brick all he'd brick them all.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I guarantee you that that shot is a less than 10% shot that's gonna be hit.
Why We Chose People Management
SPEAKER_02Exactly. So what we're going to do today is we're going to talk, we're going to do a a two, what's probably going to be a two-parter.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and this is kind of as a build-up to our big what I'm going to assume is a three-part episode. Uh that's down the road, though. But we've already been on the record about the divorce episode that's coming. But this is going to be about managing people. Yeah. And David and I have a lot of experience in that, in that I'm a business owner and and and therefore an employer. And David manages how would you say 140 people last time?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I hate. Oh God. I just I I just was listening to our last episode this week, and I uh you said that, and I was just like, I just I wanted to run the car off the road, you know.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, my operation never closes. Yeah. I mean, it is you know, it it is 365 days a year, yeah, and and we are truly a part of the community and a necessity.
SPEAKER_02So when you when you talk about 140 people, are you then are there like a series of buffers between you and oh thank god for my management stuff? Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00Every single one of them are phenomenal. But yes, there there are buffers. It's not just like me and you know, uh, this is a lack of a better term of hourly employees. It it's it's I mean, we have multiple divisions, pillars, however you want to look at it. But yes, it it's quite the science. Right. Um, but yeah, I mean, we we got first shift, second shift, third shift. I mean, unfortunately, people are always gonna be sick, and but fortunately, they are always gonna be hungry, and that's that's my job to make sure that they're fed the the sick people who are hungry are that are fed. So uh Bravo to you. Yeah, yeah. So oddly enough, too, um 25 years with the company that I'm I'm with. Holy shit boss Wednesday was my 25th year anniversary. Oh my god. Yeah, started fucking filling vending machines for these guys, and you know, I don't know who I think it's funny that you and I are having 25th anniversaries.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, what's yours? Uh, October 8th. Oh, my 25th anniversary from when I started in private practice here in Knoxville as an orthodontist.
SPEAKER_00That's cool as shit. We have way too many similarities in yeah. That disturbs most of the world. Let alone most of our friends. We've been intertwined. We've way like from ex-wives' names, Allison. Oh my god. Our dad's birthdays are 9-11.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like bizarro world. Holy shit. There you go.
Generations Emotions And Communication
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. All right, so managing people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, managing people. So I I've I've been wanting to talk about this one for a while because with 25 years of experience, I'm now being able to truly manage, help, coach, discipline, whatever you want to look at it and ways of being um in management, different generations. And that's why I've always been wanting to talk about it because there are distinct differences in how you need to talk to people on a consistent basis, and you truly need to know where they're at age-wise, and that's not an ageism thing, but it's just like okay, you gotta like you have to step back and go, okay, truly, who am I talking to? And how can I get the best out of this person that's in front of me? Because I didn't call it.
SPEAKER_02You have to shift gears depending on what generation you're dealing with.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and there's some some styles for me, because and it's even difficult to even say like I am old school, so this is how I manage, because that's not good either. Because if you find yourself in that mode, it's not helping some of these some of the generations in which they need to hear something different. I don't know if that makes any sense what I just said.
SPEAKER_02I I agree with you one thousand percent.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so uh it's one of those things is just like okay, who am I talking to? How can I talk to them? There's a certain style in which I always want to manage. Like ultimately we're trying to get a job done immediately, right? You know, especially in an operations kind of thing. It's just like this is what I need right here, right now. A lot of times, emotion is not part of it. But you have got to consider emotions a hundred percent of the time, and it's very difficult for a manager for me, as being what I've what I've been doing, of me to be able to having to stop and truly just say, okay, look, I I know this person is going to need to get from point A to point B for me. Do I just immediately like hey like military directive? Or is it, hey, I know that you've had a bad day. I you know what I mean? Like it's not a not necessarily a comic. Sure.
SPEAKER_02You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, that's a great term. Yeah. And it makes sense, you know. Um, and I I don't want to put like pigeon toe me, is like there's obviously certain ways in which ultimately, I guess I'm talking in circles now, but ultimately I want to be able to go in and be like, hey, do this, do it this way, and I'm out and expect it to get done. And and it and you don't even think about it.
SPEAKER_02But that's more than how much do you have to micromanage that? Um like I mean, spell it out to the very letter and pure and punctuation.
SPEAKER_00It it all depends on what the actual job is. Um but more often than not, the older I've gotten the the trust but verify term is i it it's more because as Fred Eberting used to tell me, you cannot expect unless you inspect. That's a fact. Because you you can that becomes a problem too in management, right? You you develop a good relationship with somebody and all of a sudden it's more of a personal relationship to where they don't take you as serious. They get very complacent and comfortable. Yeah, it was like, oh well, it's just it's just it's just David asking me to this. I'll get to it. I'll make sure I get it done for David, but it's not as it's not a high priority item, right? Yeah, and that and that can get really problematic really quickly.
SPEAKER_02You and I can co-write this song for hours.
SPEAKER_00Right. And so but then you get into that problem as a manager, right? Of like when that complacent happens, you don't want to ruin that relationship, but how do you like how do you bring that person in, sit them down and be like, look, man, like, hey, I'm still your fucking boss? Right, which is difficult. I mean, you know.
SPEAKER_02So how how closely do you find you work with your team of 140? Like well at the various levels.
SPEAKER_00Well, now close, but I've only I've I'll I will be there a year here at the end of this month, which I can't believe that. Exactly. Like, what the hell it just seems like yesterday you started this. Exactly. But previously at a place that I was at for 15 years, like man, I was I I I knew everything was going on, you know. I mean, I granted it was uh a team of 40, so you know, granted, I was able to get a lot more personable, but you know, spending 15 years with these people with low turnover, I mean, you knew everything. That's awesome that you had low turnover. Yeah, I I will if I could ever put a feather in my my management cap, I've been able to not to toot my own horn, but it's been pretty, you know, I've got the data to back that up. I develop a good culture, and and uh that's a good thing. You know, uh it it pain it chaps my ass to get somebody new in and just I hate it. I I'd much rather starting all over again. I hate square one. Yeah, yeah. But it's also the bad side of that is especially at the last place, bringing in somebody new into a a click, that's hard too. Because that person's got to morph into that click or they're gonna get devoured.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, that's what's governed some of my more recent hires is it's not so much their what abilities they bring, you know, or experience, it is will they blend with the rest of the team? Because that's the first step. If they blend with the rest of the team, the rest, and then it's easy because everyone will try, you know, work on training them and bringing them up to speed as to how we do things and what have you. But if someone does not gel with with the team right out of the gate, like you're that person's dead in the water.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I I you can't bring in a hyena with a bunch of a lions. Yeah. Well immediately the lions know, like, uh one of these kids just doesn't belong here, as they said on Sesame Street. But they all but all of a sudden the lions are looking at you and being like, why the hell did you just allow a hyena come in here? Or or it's kind of like Animal House.
SPEAKER_02Wait till Otis sees us, he loves us.
unknownOtis.
SPEAKER_01My man! Oh my God.
SPEAKER_00That'll go, that'll send me into a rabbit hole right there, man. I love that movie so much.
SPEAKER_02It's just like a cornerstone movie in my life.
SPEAKER_00Like somebody, somebody the other day who was just like, oh, we're about to put them on double secret probation.
SPEAKER_01My ears fucked up. I was like, I'm gonna call you flounder. Why flounder? Why not?
SPEAKER_03Was it over when the Germans bomb Pearl Harbor? Let him let him go. Let him go. He's on a roll. Well, what are we supposed to do, you damn bull? The fact that he was the writer of the rotor writer of that, yes. Blows my mind.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like, huh?
SPEAKER_02He was like the cornerstone of National Lampoon. Yes. Anyway, we got up. We'll quickly grant off get off track again, but okay.
Culture Fit Probation And Teams
SPEAKER_00So it'll happen. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But so managing people.
SPEAKER_00Yes, but uh, where was I on that?
SPEAKER_02We were talking about how you have to temper it depending on the ages and the different and and the generations.
SPEAKER_00No doubt. And and but the culture piece of it of bringing the the hyena into the uh it and but that's when I know that I have a good culture too, is when the lions are able to come to me and say, This ain't it, bro.
SPEAKER_02No, I no, that that yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that's why, you know, that's why companies have this probation period. And you know, it's not just uh it's not just that, hey, we're we're feeling you out. That person's feeling us out too. Because I guarantee you, I've I've had numerous people that we've brought on just be like, man, this ain't my jam. And it's like, cool, I I get it. Uh, you know, my line of work is you know, I we know immediately you're either you either love kitchen work or you fucking hate it. Period. And from the get-go, from waiting tables to, you know, obviously, I've like I just said, I've been in it 25 years. I love I love every aspect of what I do. The diversity in it, the the constant change, the con there is no monotony in what we do, other than the what we're putting on a plate. Right. But man, I I love it. But people get in it and hate it. It's really quick. Yeah. It's it's it's very noticeable, but you know, I've always loved the healthcare part of what I'm doing because it it's allowed me to be in the kitchen and still have a life. Right. You know, kitchen life, restaurant life.
SPEAKER_02One, I can't, you know have you worked restaurant life?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I I you know, I I did uh in my early days. Uh it was waiting tables and and knew immediately. Like, you ever seen the movie Waiting with uh Ryan Reynolds? No. Oh, okay. You need to because it's hilarious. Okay, but it's a documentary. Like it's not a documentary, but it's it's truly like what restaurant life is. And I you can't you can't I never can't do it.
SPEAKER_02I uh younger years I never explored that industry because I immediately knew I would be awful at it. All it would take would be one shitty customer and me telling them the go fuck off.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, yeah, well, yeah. I mean the front of the house people, and then you got the back of the house people, and then and that's a whole division. Talk about managing people that way. Yeah, so usually back of the house people are people that could give a fuck about your feelings about being a customer, right? So we want to make sure they stay behind the curtain, but then you have the people that are salesmen, waiters, waitresses, hostesses, hostesses, like they're able to absorb the shittiness of people. And and but usually the front of the house people don't necessarily mesh with the back of the house people, and you know, it's a it's a great thing.
SPEAKER_02Well, no, that's the same culture that I have in my office is that you know, I have the clinic clinical staff that works on the patients in the back and everything, and then I have the administrative staff that are the receptionists and insurance coordinators and and office managers. That's your front of the house. And that's my front of the house, you know, and they're and they're the you know, as I've always explained to front desk personnel, you know, you're the voice, you're the face that they see and hear before when they when they're contacting us or experiencing us for the first time. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's amazing. Uh you know, and and and you've got to be able to hire appropriately. And when you don't, it ruins everything. Oh, truth.
Ownership Respect And Office Managers
SPEAKER_02There's so much truth. I don't think I nailed it down well really until late in my career. Um in orthodontics, you run into so many different so my orthodontist in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Just great. But like there was an aesthetic that he was all about and that he demanded they all had to have straight teeth. So if you didn't, you had to go through orthodontics while you were there. But the Christmas cards you would get from them, like here they are, hair done perfectly, all wearing business suits, you know, and they're all attractive as fuck, which is great when you're 14 years old and having you know your teeth worked on by a very attractive dental assistant, you know. I mean, so oh yeah, this seems like a really great gig. I think I'm gonna go into orthodontics when I get older. Um, so you know, that kind of set the bar for me. And then when I came here to East Tennessee, it was like, okay, I may have to kind of temper my expectations a little bit, you know, um, to a point now where that's not really an overriding factor. Like I said earlier, it it's really all about just harmony. You know, does that person's personality work with um with our team? And it's not I have discovered late in the game that there is no age component to that, there is no ethnic component to that, right? And there's no gender, there's no gender component to that because I have employed men. I currently have a man on my staff as my um one of my uh front desk personnel and interpreter. Yeah. And and he's fantastic. I love him to death, you know. I I I I've learned I liked having a guy on the team. I can see that. You know, it helps a little bit. I can see that. Um, you know, but in terms of you know, managers, I mean, you know, we've mentioned Gresha on the show, and Gresha has been with me just over three years now. Um, you know, she's you know, and this is I don't say this to denigrate previous office managers, but she has been the most complete office manager that I have had. Um, in that she manages for me the key thing was Lou Guy. She's she's my hitman. Oh she is. I mean, she's she's Tough isn't it? Like the thing that sold me on hiring her was that she had spent a long time managing her father's construction company. Oh, well, there you go. Okay, she's dealt with men, she's dealt with men that have probably catcalled her a few times. Um tough skin, tough skin, you know. And um, and so that's really what sold me on on having her as kind of managing the team. And that's great. She has managed personnel in a way that no other office manager has ever done. And you need that toughness, but it's also the first time that I've had an office manager who's on my side and who understands because in the past it'd be previous office managers would be like, Well, hey, he's just being an asshole today, and stuff. And that's the culture. I mean, that it's I don't think it was just my office. I'm sure you can find plenty of dental and orthodontic offices, you know, and I've seen it firsthand with oral surgery offices and stuff like that. Like I remember my very first second district dental society meeting, and Dr. Price had brought me there, and I was being introduced to some people, and I was introduced to this dentist that had his office manager there, and she just said, Well, you know how it is. Some of these, without us, some of us, those dentists couldn't even keep their shoes tied. And I immediately fired back yet with, well, just so you remember that with without someone like me, you don't have a job. And that's where that's how and that set the tone for me immediately. And so there is that'll do it. There is very much a clash, I think, within between employ you know, employees and management. Oh, all the time. You know, in that um, you know, Gresha and I have a different but but but what the team doesn't understand, and I understand that they don't care, and that's fine, but I don't ever get to leave the job at the office. I it comes when you're a business owner, you bring you bring it home with you.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02You know, there have been years where I have It's not just your paycheck you're worrying about. Yeah, no, it's well and and so what they don't understand at the end of the day is you need to be thinking all the time about this business generating good revenue. And if your attitude is, well, no, fuck it, so long as I get paid, well, that's great. But if the business goes under, you need to understand you're then out of a job. Right. You know, I'm still gonna be kind of okay. Right. You know, I have a building that I have paid off. I you know, I but and sometimes I don't I wish overall that employees understood that better. That I would think you don't have to love me, but you've got to love the practice.
Hiring Under Wage Pressure
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's I think that's got that's a hard sell. Yeah, it is very much so. Yeah. I mean, so my my hardest sell uh with what I do is like, hey, come on board for$15 an hour. Yeah. And that's already tough. And I need you to I need you to be all in.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that and that's where I'm at on a daily basis.
SPEAKER_02So do you ever worry about with let's just start there with the$15 per hour? Um because I mean you got Starbucks that's willing to pay people and Target that are willing to pay people$20,$22 an hour. Correct. Like, do you just accept you're gonna be in competition with that and just yeah, you know, hope that the people that you get are like, yeah, I can't do the retail lifestyle, I can't do the barista lifestyle.
SPEAKER_00And that's why and that part of the managing people is you you've truly the worst thing that can happen in my business is you're just hiring warm bodies. Like in my business. I've done that, but uh we all have. It sucks. It that's where you get in serious, serious trouble because that's when you develop that revolving door. It's like, okay, I'm I'm hiring just to hire, and I'm I'm relieving pressure for my guys because they're it's it's relieving some of the work. But I'd much rather at the older I've gotten now is like, look, keep working super hard while I I'm telling you, I'm looking. I'm telling you. I've had that same talk. Yeah, and you have to because bringing in the wrong person, whether it's your practice, whether it's selling cell phones, uh, a restaurant, my kitchen, whatever it is, if you bring in that wrong person or just that warm body, like, because there's a time, like when you're when you're offering only$15 an hour, you're happy the fuck they showed up for the interview. Yeah, exactly. And it and so like, oh, this guy actually showed up for an interview. You're hired. Like, you can't have that mentality. Exactly. And if you do, you're just you're just putting yourself way behind where you're wanting to be. Again, managing that people, I'd much rather tell the person that's working their ass off for you and doing a good job, saying, Look, I'm still trying to find this right person to help you. I'm not just gonna bring somebody in for two weeks, you know, that's just not the right person. And that that's very, very difficult. You know, you just gotta almost hit your knees at night and just be like, Man, please just send me somebody that's gonna be into that nature. I utilize attempt service quite a bit, so that's nice. Um, so it's like a you know, that gives me the ability to, you know, vet them a little bit, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Outside of even a probation period. Sure. You know, because they can go off and go do something else. So they're just part of the attempt service. But that to me, that is the biggest piece of just helping people stay focused on what they're doing, making it important, letting them know that what they're doing is legit, you know, like what you do in your practice is a fucking awesome thing. You know, you're you're giving kids confidence, you're giving kids a better life with what they're doing with their mouths. I mean, like a smile is 100% one of the best things you can have on your on your body, right? Absolutely. Absolutely the first thing people notice. Exactly. That is a huge sell. Right. That is a huge sell. But if you're not believing in that and backing that up and you're not willing to put that effort, you don't want them. You're right. And and if you have that person in there buying in on the culture and buying in on what the why is, you're gonna win a hundred percent of the time. 100% of the time. But it's fucking troublesome to to go through the landmine, basically, is what I like to call it. Like you're just you're just bobbing in and out.
SPEAKER_02It's kind of whack-a-mole.
SPEAKER_00It is whack-a-mole. It is, but again, you don't hire them dead, so when you do get those people, love them to death. Like you've got to truly, truly invest in them when they're there and when it is the right person. Because man, there's nothing worse than somebody just walking out on you that you just was really good. Yeah, and you and you were the one that fucked it up.
SPEAKER_02So have so when that happens though, how introspective do you get on that? Very introspective. I I it hurts me. It's where I start. I with people that have left and it wasn't because we knew it was coming. Like I've had people, I've had assistants work for me that their plan was to go to hygiene school or yeah, yeah, or they were moving, and so things like that. I don't get back and get introspective about. I'm like, well, just it's that was situational, you know, sure. So it was gonna happen.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. I've had like many people like my mom's sick, I gotta go back to Ohio.
SPEAKER_02I would definitely yeah, I would definitely say that in my younger years, yes, would be call for introspection as to what could I have done better to make this work. My younger since since 2019, I'm not as I I I can't I do get introspective about it so much so that I will say no, I was not the fault. I can count on one hand the number of times since 2019 that it may have been my fault.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well and and it's it's it that's where the generational component starts coming in. Sure.
SPEAKER_00And that my younger years, I was very I was like wide or Doc Holiday. I was like, get the fuck out of my kitchen.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, get the fuck out of my office.
SPEAKER_00Gordon Ramsey style, like, you know, at at any given moment. And it could have been something that we could have easily worked for.
SPEAKER_02A lot of it would be just so and I wouldn't even blow my stack most of the times. A lot of it would be that something just happened, or you know, you just knew it wasn't gonna work, and I would say to the office manager, I'm gonna go to lunch. When I come back from lunch, I want to know that you've terminated this person and they're not here anymore. And so I can again, I can count on one hand the number of personal firings that I've done. Oh. I did the big one. The the first one was the big one, and that was uh Dr. Price's office manager, um, who had been with him for 17 years and was fighting me just like people who just didn't understand both the people that worked for him and the people who did business with him did not understand that okay, I'm the guy buying the practice here. You need to kind of ingratiate yourself to me a little bit. Right. And she just didn't do it. Plus, there was so many red flags under the sun for embezzlement. Oh god.
SPEAKER_00There's so too like yeah, and so and when I started probing a little on that that's a whole other issue, yeah. Well, I mean, not to get you like crazy on that, but I mean, I I have fired a lot of people, unfortunately. But that being said, I truly didn't fire them. They fired themselves, sure, absolutely, yeah. Like, there has never been a moment in time to where I've just been like, you can't fucking do that. If you keep fucking doing that, you're fucking fired. I mean, but they will continue to do that, whatever it may be.
SPEAKER_02Well, there's no rhyme blows my mind in orthodontics or dentistry. I find there's no rhyme or reason to it. Because I've had people, I've got two people on my team who've been doing this for over 30 years. And yeah overall they're great. You know, there's some people feel like, well, you have to you can't teach an old dog new tricks or anything like that. Change is hard. Um, you know, and they're used to a different culture from the doctor that they used to work for for a hundred thousand years. Right. Again, change is hard. I'm not that. You know, he was willing to let you run his whole practice for him, and he just didn't do shit. That's fine, but that's not me.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02You know, so you need to understand that, and that don't go making command decisions without running them through Gresha or running them through me. Yeah, you know, and we're still working on that three years later. Yeah, you'll probably be working on that, on that. And so for me, for your guy that's five and a half years, five and a half years remaining, um, because we did talk about that in the last episode, five and a half years remaining, it's a question of how much do I want to make this a DEF CON 1 issue. Sure. And the answer is it's not. Can I endure it? Absolutely. So let's just continue doing what it is we do.
SPEAKER_00And to me, that's kind of almost a danger zone for you too. Yeah. Because you uh as soon as you let as soon as the as soon as you went down the wrong pipe there.
SPEAKER_02Um the inmates run the asylum. It's not that.
Consistency Beats Leniency
SPEAKER_00Uh but I mean that's the extreme. That's the extreme part of it. But it's the once somebody sees that that inch given. No, you will be tested on that line very carefully. You will be tested every which way but loose with all the rest of them. 100%. If you're not consistent on that, uh or if you show uh leniency and empathy to me are two different two different things. Right. And so if you show the leniency on something without the empathy, that's where you're gonna get you're gonna get destroyed as a manager. Yeah, you really will. Yeah, and I and it's happened to me numerous times. Right. Because I I've done stuff like, oh, well, yeah, yeah, you just yeah, that's fine. Go ahead and do it that way. Yeah. And then everyone all of a sudden starts doing it that way. You know, instead of going 10 yards, they're going nine. And once that culture is established, once that's multiplied, you're fucked. Yeah, yeah. And and that's tough on managers that way because gosh, man. Most that more often than not, you're tired. You know, you're going in exactly. I'm just I'm just tired, man. Like, could you just fucking give me a hundred percent today?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I don't want to crawl anyone's ass. Can you all just do your jobs to the best of your ability? Yeah, put out any like use your brain. It's that lump three feet above your asshole. That I took from uh that that that's the one I was what is it, the chicks, the chick baseball team movie, uh League of Their Own. I got that, I got that from Tom Hanks. I I have used that. I had I have used all of that in office meetings, stuff that later I probably could have gotten my ass sued the light out of for. Uh my god. Uh I think about the first two or three years that I was practicing and the shit that I said in office meetings that like, oh my God. And the person I am today would never do that anymore. No.
SPEAKER_00So one one part of my career I I was truly given a green light of like, David, this place is yours. Fucking fix it. Don't care how you fix it. Don't worry about it. So when did you light the flamethrower? Fucking about three minutes in.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I three minutes in, and it was the most one of the most liberating damn moments of my career. And I mean, I was full of piss and vinegar. I I think I was 30 or 31, and it was like, I mean, come to damn. Like, if if there was a moment in time to where like there were cameras on me, and like, hey, when was the moment in time in your life that you looked like Nick Saban on the sidelines? That was that was it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That was it. Like, I was able to just say whatever, what, however, and it, and I was able to just lay the law down, and it was it was incredible to have that feeling. But part of that, it's incredible to see the people that will look you dead in your eye after a moment like that and will lock arms with you. And those are the people like I I'm still friends with those people. It's just like, yep, that's the way shit should be.
SPEAKER_02No, I have some former employees that I still have very good relationships with, um, you know, some of whom have acknowledged their missteps along the way. Well, what I was saying, trying to get to earlier, was that since 2019, when I've gotten introspective on all this, no, yeah, no, it's not me. Yeah, not me. Nope, it is not me. I am not the problem here. I have I and as we've gotten into the younger and younger generations being employees, um that's the thing you just kind of have to stick to your guns on because I do I you know, I've been tough on Gen X on this show. I mean Gen Gen Z.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
Pandemic Policies And Staff Training
SPEAKER_02Um, but but they it's funny because they almost want to tell you how they want you to employ them, how you want them to be, how they want to be managed by you. You know, I there's so many things that though have changed a lot of my behavior with regards to being an employer. I mean, when I was younger, yes, I had some attractive staff members that I was a little flirty with and s and whatnot, you know. And and that's that's the culture of dentistry, too, for the longest time. Uh Me Too changed all of that. Like, and the the the I listen, I'm when I hear of people still getting busted for like sexual harassment and stuff like that, post Me Too, I'm like, what part of the memo didn't you get? Like, I trust me, I read the memo loud and clear. You know, now though, like there were people that like, you know, you gave me an ounce of shit, I f I'll fire you at the drop of a hat. And don't, you know, it's like the Bill Cosby routine. Don't, don't, you know, I'll find another one that just looks just like you. Yeah. You know, and and in the business, there is a glut of dental assistants out there looking for work. I mean, I could have the whole team turn over. I could probably find people, not as experienced as this team, but I could find people the next day to come in and like learn the ropes. Right. And I have done that with teams. In 2020, was the first of the big losses that I suffered. Um, and it was a case where I had three people whose boyfriends or husbands got jobs out of the area, and so they went with them. Well, what are you gonna do? I mean, that's that's not on you, that's just a situational thing. And and so that, and then a fourth person who had been with me for quite some time, you know, she had had a baby, but then also like had two other children quite literally dumped on her doorstep, you know, that she adopted. So she had to kind of she's back with me now, and I'm uh she'll never know how grateful I am the day that I got word that she wanted to come back because she she made that she extended that overture at a moment where I felt I was at my lowest low, but we'll get to that in a minute. Um, anyway, so I had four people, so it gutted my entire clinical staff, and then you know, post-pandemic trying to build a team from that.
SPEAKER_00I can't even imagine what you know, post-pandemic, just like okay, I not wanting to get into anybody's mouth. All it does all it did for my guys is just like, man, I mean, talk about being essential. Holy shit. Yeah, like you know, we were we were part of that whole like hero thing. Remember all that shit? Yeah, you know, like, oh, you're heroes, you're heroes. You know, that was that helped me, but you know, I can't imagine after the fact.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, when I got vaccinated, and it was right at the end of 2020, I literally I got the phone call from our executive director of the second district dental society, and she's like, hey, they're making vaccines available at the Blunt County Blunt County Health Department. You could like see the smoke trail of me having I told the office, I'll be back in about 20 minutes, and uh checked all the patients I needed to check, bought me some time, got out the door, went over to Blunt County Health Department, got stuck, sat in my car and cried for five minutes because I thought I finally saw the light at the end of the tunnel. And there we go. And uh, and because I was a healthcare worker, I was considered essential personnel and and got that vaccine. But then trying to get the staff to get vaccines the big problem. And then trying to get patients and their parents to understand stay in your the stay in your car thing, and we'll come, we'll text you to come on in, honestly was the greatest thing in the world. I wish we could have kept that.
SPEAKER_00Um I'm actually shocked that you didn't.
SPEAKER_02I can't like to me that I think everyone just wanted to get back to some normality, and the normality was you want to sit in the reception and get the way to be called. But I I loved because like I mean, there are time days when you're not gonna be able to meet maybe you should not even wait in a car.
SPEAKER_00Like to me, like doctor's appointments should be like when I'm when I text you to say be here at 1205, there's your window. Right. You know, like you don't have to wait, you don't have you know, like because obviously you can do everything online or and everything should be like checking in and shit, whether it's a walk-in clinic or not. Every all your shit's saved.
SPEAKER_02So in the wake of that, I had to kind of devise a policy saying that the we encourage you to get it, we can't force you to get it. But if you get sick due to COVID, that's unpaid time off. You're you're gonna be forced to go home and you're not gonna get paid for that. Yeah. And so that was just the policy that I established on it. Right. So, you know.
SPEAKER_00So you you didn't have you didn't mandate it.
SPEAKER_02I did not man I have never mandated that anyone get vaccine. Okay. I I um get the vaccine. I I strongly encouraged it. I'm you know, you you're hearing from the younger people that about fucking killed me. They were worried about fertility issues and stuff like that. But really the the reverse happened because I had like, I think, three or four people get pregnant during that time. Like that really, because it seems like to me the Moderna vaccine is like Spanish fly.
SPEAKER_00Like the that that side effect about whatever it was doing to hearts, like I had it. Like that second shot about it put me out for Oh, the second shot made me no, like I felt it was I felt it. Like heart palpitations and everything, man. I was out for like four days. Like it was uh But I've been boosted like seven, eight times now. Really? Yeah, when I get when I After that second shot, I was like When I get the vacuum.
SPEAKER_02No, when I get with when the times I've gotten COVID, it's the common cold in me now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, uh the sickest I've ever been was just taking the shot.
SPEAKER_02Well, that happens. When I was in the Navy, I got the typhoid vaccine, and oh my god, you want to talk about a vaccine that made me sick as a like for 24 to 48 hours, it was be like have a fever, break it, sitting under the wrapped up under my blanket and everything, shivering to death and everything like that. Yeah, yeah, it was wild shit. But like the military, you don't get a choice on that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I yeah, definitely not.
SPEAKER_02So, but anyway, so then employing people after the pandemic was it became very interesting. And I I ran into a whole cast of characters during 2021 that there was just a lot of weird behavior from people, like there was this mindset taken from workers that was I'm not gonna compromise my well-being and whatnot for the job. I had I had other people come in. I rotate a lot of people in 2021. I really did. It was that was a tough year for us. And um, and again, it was it was one of those moments where I was just like, How much longer do I got to keep doing this? At the end toward the end of that year, because then I had my associate coming on board, and I really needed to like get our shit together and like have a staff that was like trained and knew what they were doing. So it was really the final third of the year that I actually devoted my Fridays, my day off, that I would call the new employees in and I would hold training, I'd hold class with them, and this is what you're gonna do. And and and so I devised a syllabus. It was only three Fridays I had to do it, but this is what this is how it works, this is what you're gonna do, yada yada, yada.
SPEAKER_00Did that work for you?
SPEAKER_02I it did for a while. It did for a while. So, what made you quit it? Uh, I didn't have to do it anymore. Well and and and then what happened is I had a trained staff in place that now trains anybody that doesn't know how to do it. So you developed a culture, by the way. I did, yes. Yes. So so that got us through Erica joining us, and you know, we had some people come and go still, and then I'm asking questions, but go ahead.
SPEAKER_00So with you doing that and you're able to establish a culture, is it is that something that you wish you would like you had a better orientation process?
SPEAKER_02I suppose that could be there are probably plenty of offices out there that do have a better training program.
SPEAKER_00I guess I guess my question is like how important is that actual orientation and establishing it?
Salary Traps And Policy Manuals
SPEAKER_02They're gonna figure it out. They will get it at some point, or they won't work here. That's that it's that simple. I mean, I give you 90 days to learn the general ropes of orthodontics. My team is really good about making sure any new employee knows those ropes. And you know, so that's where we're at. So that was you know, 21. We kind of had a solid team in in through 2022, and then 2023 hit, and that was probably the biggest shitstorm of my entire life, because then Eric left, and with that, I ended up turning over eventually pretty much the entire team except for one person. Right. And um, and that was a you know, and and so what you run into is you get people who will who are willing to like, as you're going out the door to go drive down to Hilton Head and check in on your mom and have a weekend down there with her, like, I'm giving you my two weeks' notice. Well, thank you, you just ruined my weekend, you fucking asshole. So, you know, what you do with what I've learned as the employer, sometimes you let them think that they've won, but they don't win. They don't, at the end of the day, they just don't win. Especially when they're like 22 years old, right? You know, so and we can go more and more into this when we do part two, because like there's a psychology, I think, behind a lot of this that you have to learn very quickly. But so yeah, so then we had the turnover, and so as we got new people in, and like I said, I've got two 30-year vets, which is very, very helpful. You know, and then I have Chaz, who is the aforementioned person that left and because of the babies left on the doorstep and then came back, you know, she's got like 15, 20 years experience in all of this. So when you have a team that already has like three people like that on board, it makes life really easy. You know the staff's gonna be trained, you they you know, they understand the culture and whatnot. Um, you know, the the the assistant that stayed, the one assistant that stayed from the mass exodus of 23, Jada. I mean, she's uh just a joy, you know. She's she's like a you know, I I I make sure she's always happy and and and whatnot, and and she does a lot of our marketing stuff. She's bought in. She's bought in, she's in. She's in. And and but then you know, hiring someone like Grescia uh also was a big game changer for us. And and um, you know, because it took time, but I think now she and I have established the culture of what we expect. And there is definitely a divide, the two of us and then the rest of the team. You know, we're we're the prime management, and and then there's the rest of the team. And of course, you know, one of the assistants is the clinic coordinator, and then one of the administrator personnel is kind of the admin leader.
SPEAKER_00So you truly feel like there's a a divide?
SPEAKER_02I know there's a divide. Okay. Yeah. No, I know there is a divide. I mean, because uh you brought it up earlier, you know, hourly wages. I mean, there's the hour uh hourly versus the salaried. Yeah, you know, and and um, you know, and that's it the funny the uh funny as sidebar on the whole salary versus hourly thing. I've had experiences where it's become a joke now for me, where I have had people that worked hourly and then will find a way like, oh, I've gotta work like 90 hours a week, you know, and and what have you. My job is so tough, I've got to work 90 hours a week. And then it's you know, I have a policy manual. Once you start going consistently past 40 hours a week, then we have to talk about going on salary. Yeah, because you're not gonna pay the overtime. No, I'm not gonna pay the fucking overtime. And um, but I have also noticed the minute you put them on salary, that need for them to work 90 hours a week all of a sudden becomes 35. Yeah, you know, so I'm always very careful about putting people on salary. Now, you know, and and again, Gresha's the first person I've done that with that has truly it's been the best investment I ever made. But, you know, the girl who we just lost a couple years ago, who had been with me for a while and I viewed as a daughter to me, she was a s she claimed she was assistant office manager, kind of just pissing me off, is what she did mostly for the last year. But like it would be no, I'm not gonna stay like no, I'm not gonna do this, no, I'm not. I'm like, you kind of don't understand what the salary thing is all about, you know. And um, so yeah, it it and it is sad because I do feel like the people that pay for the sins of the past employees are the future employees. Oh, all the time. Like I could go through my policy manual and I can tell you what paragraphs are dedicated to specific staff members, you know. Because like there are people that I have sent off on planes to go to other cities to learn, do trainings at some things and whatnot. And then it would be like three months after you do that, and now they're turning in their notice and they're gonna go work for someone else. And so I had to make a policy that stated if I do this, then you are bound to me for another year. And if you don't do that or you force me to fire you. Yeah, kind of in a way. Yeah. If you force me to fire, if you make it so that I have no choice but to fire you, then I'm going to recoup all that money I invested in you out of your final paycheck. And you get then you get someone I didn't know that was gonna exist. I have your signature on a paper here that says you read the policy manual. You know, it's funny, the policy manual only matters when they want to bind me to the policies, but then everyone else wants it to be a free fucking for all. So when I do talks to the dental assisting school, I always open by saying, I have a record and I will be transparent completely. I am not the world's greatest employer. I am a work in progress. I feel I do it better now than I did 25 years ago. There's still a lot of work to be done, but with five and a half years remaining, I don't know how much evolution I'm willing to do at this point. Um, let that be for the next person who takes over the practice. Right. Um, I'm happy we get to do what we do. We seem to have a very steady stream of what we're doing now. You know, the culture being that because we I am it for this era for this part of Tennessee for 10 care. Wet uh east of the Cumberland Mountains, north of Cleveland, this is my this is my empire. Right. We're booked out on new patient exams, like I think four or five months now. Jeez, we're booked out on starts, I think three months now. That's crazy. It's a nice it's a nice position to be in. Right. It's definitely, you know, I sent out letters recently for a new associate to join us. So like, and at this time I'm not fucking around. Like the minute I get a letter, I'm like, when do you want to start?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
The Hidden Fires Of Ownership
SPEAKER_02I mean, I'm not I we we I need you badly now. And um, so that's nice. I I try to keep the peace as well as I can. Um I think Russia does a great job in putting out most of the fires before they even have to come to me. I'm always briefed about the fires, but so long as I don't have to take any active action, active act was inactive action, um, so long as I don't have to take any action on things, I uh I'm I'm I'm happy about that. Because I mean, what they don't understand is my job is more than just treating these patients. Like I'm keeping the books, I'm on the phone dealing with an insurance agency. I'm you know, we were recently the victims of a check washing scheme. Oh, that's fun. What is that? That is when somebody like legitimately wrote a check and it no, it what it is is like someone intercepted your mail, figured out one of the pieces of mail was a bill, took out the bill, there's a check in it, they scan the check, they change the information, some of the information, but it's the same check, and then they cash it for money. So some dickless piece of shit down in Hull, Georgia uh got fifty, five hundred dollars from me. And and so what happened was this is a sidebar, um, you know, is uh I was going back and forth with one of my vendors, and I'm like, dude, I wrote you this check back in July, you know, it cleared, you know, you so I don't know why you're saying you don't have it. Can you send us an image of the check? So I like go pull up the image and I'm like, Oh, who's Nathan Epps? Wow. Who the fuck is that? And then it's like, oh shit. And so then this is where it becomes a pain in the ass. You tell your bank that you know I've had fraud happen here. Now it's like every check that comes through that account, they call me up and have to verify it. Yeah. I had to open a new checking account. So getting all of our electronic funds transfers, our credit card machines, everything like that has just been an endless pain in the ass. And so um, you're going through that, and the team just doesn't they don't understand that you know, these are the fires you're putting out, these are the other things you're dealing with. It's one thing if they don't understand, it's another thing if they do understand, but they don't seem to care. Yeah, that's a problem. And that's what I run into a little bit. Yeah, and so like my team runs a whole gamut of generations. Um, you know, like I said, I got two 30-year vets, they're my age, they're in their 50s. I've got actually, I think, three staff members that are in their 50s. Um, and then you know, I have then young people, you know, I mean, one of whom is like five days older than my son. Yeah. Um I think that's towards the younger end, you know, and then some people in 30s and 40s. And so, yeah, there's a broad generational view on things. Um it works right now. My it is never my intention to upset that chi.
SPEAKER_00Um never good to upset the chi.
SPEAKER_02No, I I I'm I'm happy when I come in every day and they're all there. And and at the end of the day, I mean, and and my clinic coordinator has established this culture where at the end of the day, as we're walking out the door, she says to everyone that she loves them. Yeah, and I say, I love you too. I mean, my office manager and I so I do, I love my office manager. I really do. I mean that like I've I've got her back in a way that I've never had any other office managers back. Yeah, that's awesome. And um, you know, so make it so number two, make it so number two. And um and really, no, I mean seriously, and I trust her judgment in pretty much 99.9% of the things that we do. So there are some things where I do say, let me take this off you because this is a me thing, because I have all the information in here, and you don't have that information at the ready. You know, this is a me thing, like as we were we were dealing with an EFT from one of our credit card companies, and that she's like on the phone with them for hours and like doesn't have like you know, only has like maybe 20% of the information she needs. And I'm like, okay, you need to let me know in the future when this is a me thing that I have to do, and I can I'll make the time to do it. So but that's that's the problem in in the business that I'm in is that I straddle this fence of the clinical part that I have to do in treating the patients, and then the administrative part that I have to do as a business owner. And then some of that means it creeps into my Friday, Saturday that I'm at, you know, like I'll reconcile the bank accounts this weekend and whatnot. Yeah, you know, and you try to impress, you know, and the team's like, oh, we're feeling overworked. Oh, really? You're feeling overworked. Let me tell you about waking up in a cold sweat, you know. Have you seen these bags under my exact so but yeah, and so that's you know, and so I've given up trying to explain that to them. And it's just this this is what so long as it works every day, I'm very happy. No, I mean for me to kind of sum up the whole employee thing, like I've had no, I mean I've had people that left on less than great terms with me, and and you know, again, thank God I've never been there it is, thank God I've never been sued and and whatnot, you know, and and I'm very it's gotten a point now though, but I mean, being 57 and most of your team being younger, you take a very big brother or even paternalistic attitude towards them and whatnot. And so, you know, I just keep the drama to a minimum. I I don't want to hear about your inner I I have it in my policy manual. Any conflicts, resolve it at the lowest level. Because if you gotta br if it ends up that I'm brought in on this, this will not go well for you.
Pop Culture Reset And Fandom
SPEAKER_00You know so it's yeah, there's one answer and one directive when it's well it's like the Highlander, there can only be one. Oh man, I can't wait for that. Have you seen the new one already? No, I haven't. Henry Cavill's gonna be there. I heard. Yeah, I'm kind of fired up about that.
SPEAKER_02Do you think he's gonna ever gonna play Cavalrine? No. Are you stoked for the Spider-Man movie? Yes. I am too. Have you watched Wonder Man yet? Yes. Is it good? Yes. Jeffrey told me it was really good, and I'm like okay. I just finished Pluribus season one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the whole uh I haven't done that. We you know, we talked about that one on Yeah, let's talk about a little pop culture shit for a second, and then we'll get my my pop culture stuff is uh I got CJ hooked on Game of Thrones.
SPEAKER_02Holy shit, balls.
SPEAKER_00So I am I am truly in on season one of Game of Thrones and watching it through another person's eyes for the first time, yeah, and it is amazing. Yeah, she has no idea. And seeing what I know, right, and seeing it happen, yeah, the gasp and uh like are you serious? And like all this other stuff.
SPEAKER_02Let's just start season one, Ned Stark. Let's just start right there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like I mean, just I told her we we started. Um, I said, hey, I just humor me for a little bit. I want to see this, the new one, the the new spin-off, the seven kingdoms night of the seven kingdoms or whatever. Yeah, so I was like, just humor me, I just need to see this. So, and she did, and we watched the first episode, and I was like, okay, this is this is good, and there were so many references to of the original game to where I was just like, okay, you know, I I get it, and I was like kind of snickering at a couple things to where, but then she was just like, I this doesn't do anything for me. And I said, I totally agree. It's like you you really need to dive into the to the thing. Like it's fun to watch her like just sit there and and we're able, I'm able to know the things that are happening and the characters immediately.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And you're just like, hold my beer. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like you have no idea what's about to come. Yeah. And yeah, and that's even hilarious too. Because I even told her, I said, look, they're either fighting or fucking.
SPEAKER_02A lot of that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And and and she's enjoyed both.
SPEAKER_02I still maintain the greatest story arc in Game of Thrones is Arya. That she's got I think she's got the greatest story arc.
SPEAKER_00Like she just goes and yet it was still I yeah, again, I hate the ending here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I hate it all. But yes, like the ultimate person that I feel like she should have killed, she never even had the opportunity.
SPEAKER_02I still love that moment where the fucking Winter King fucking turns the dragon into a song. Like that, just like that at the as a showender.
SPEAKER_00That was the crescendo of the final season, and then everything else just went to shit. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I always love the opening uh credits sequence where like yeah, it talked about like, and then there's the one finally the wall had the segment of the wall had come down, and like they put that in there, and I'm like, okay, these guys are on top of this shit.
SPEAKER_00So I I don't know where we left off, but what are you looking forward to future wise? Like, that's coming out.
SPEAKER_02Well, I the uh Avengers Doomsday.
SPEAKER_00Like, that's that's kind of the You know what low key is like got me super like my nipples a little hard? The He-Man movie. I didn't even know that was coming. Oh, are you serious? No, I didn't. You gotta see the trailer. Holy shit. Yeah, so Jared Leto is Skeletor. Okay, but that tracks. Well, yes, exactly. But you don't but you don't see Jared Leto. Right, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. Yeah, like I'm I'm tired of seeing Jared Leto because he's hasn't aged in like him, 50 years. Yeah. But and I hated his Joker, but but he's Skeletour, but all the stuff, like everything that you've wanted, like um uh Albus is uh man of arms, okay, which is awesome. You know what I'm talking about? Is uh I may have ruined his name. He was in Thor, he was probably the man of arms of Thor, the the the black guy oh, oh yeah, right. He was he also starred in the wire.
SPEAKER_02Iris Albus is that yeah, Idris Albus.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So he's man of arms. Oh wow, yeah, and everything about this movie is just like awesome. But I sent it to my daughter and I was like, man, I'm I'm low-key, super excited about this. And she goes, I have no idea what the fuck this is. And I failed you as a father. Like, this was ultimate 80s cartoon for me. And they but it looks like it's it looks yeah, you need to check that trailer out. But that's that's my next one that was like, hell yes.
SPEAKER_02Uh no, it's so doomsday is really it for where's it gonna go?
SPEAKER_00Uh you know what? I have theories. Are they gonna shit the bed with Robert Downey Jr. being a villain, or is it gonna be amazing?
SPEAKER_02I I have no doubt they will tie it again, tie it in brilliantly, and they will make up for this in this movie, they will make up for all the missteps they have made since endgame.
SPEAKER_00I got you. Daredevil season two. Have you watched it yet? Well, yeah, well, I've seen the first episode, I haven't seen the second episode. Just so good. Yeah, I've also noticed this about myself on re-listening to our episodes. I say so good. So good. So much. So good. So good. I'm like Neil Diamond. It's gonna be so good.
SPEAKER_02It's gonna be on Project One Runway. So good. So good. Oh my god. So no, I I um Virginia and I are we j we just we're in the middle of shrinking season three, which we got far into it, and it's like, oh, they haven't finished dropping the episodes weekly, which we wait until they're done doing that, and then we just kind of watch it and one go. So we're now also watching it, Welcome to Dairy.
SPEAKER_03Awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yes, fuck, oh shit, yeah. And so it's funny when like all the names come up, and so like I'm I'm getting to the part like you know, they're doing the military base and everything, and the one guy I He was driving the car and I said to Virginia, I said, I'm gonna bet a million bucks that's Dick Halloran. And anyone who's not a Stephen King fan, Dick Halloran first showed up in The Shining. Yep. He in the movie he was played by Scatman Cruthers. Yep. And then he shows up in Dr. Sleep. But also they the in it there's a little vignette where they talk about the Black Spot, which is this club that the black officers and enlisted men all formed. So they had a place to go drink and party and stuff like that. How far have you gotten into it? Uh we're in episode two. We just finished episode. It's coming. The black spot. Jeffrey mentioned it to me. He goes, So the black spot, I go, the black spot, I said, Oh my god, that's the black officers club. That's the black uh military club where they all drank and then it got burned down and all that shit, you know, and and all. And so I'm anxious to see what they do with this because I do think it is operating on a different timeline than um what the book is, because in the book, the two sea the two event, all the events are all taking place first in when they're kids in 1957 and then as adults in 1985. So there's this 28, 27, 28 year gap between when it hibernates and then when it comes out to feed. So but I'm going off that they're using the movie timeline now. So I'm like, okay, so what year are we in? So the what all all I have to go with right now, David, is the fact they're showing the music man in the theaters. That was 1962.
SPEAKER_00Good on you. What I will tell you to not ruin any of it, but also enhance it. This that season of Welcome to Derry has established a Stephen King universe. Yes. To which you can you can every fucking minute little crazy thing that he's ever done, you can go from so I will go so far as to tell you.
SPEAKER_02Have you ever seen the series Castle Rock?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it does that too. Because like they so much so that they go to where they film the Shawshank Redemption. Yeah. And like, like anything related, like yeah, anything related to Castle Rock. The whole couple of established like you have Kujo mentions, you have Dead Zone mentions, you have um Needful Thing mentions. They did the same thing. Alan Pangborn is in it, played by um.
SPEAKER_00They did the same thing with Welcome to Derry. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Keep watching that because they're and so just when you think Stephen King hasn't had enough, like you c like I would love to ask him, what do you think about the fact you inadvertently have created this whole universe that continues to draw people in? Because I'll promise you, he has me in from Word One. I've got books on the shelf upstairs that like I haven't read yet, the most recent stuff. Because I know the minute I do, like, I will be able to do nothing else.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, he he has the ability to capture you. Yeah. I still don't like there was a short and bad idea.
SPEAKER_02There was a short story that I read recently in one of his l recent short story anthologies, where he it was the the main character was um a Vic Trenton, who was the father of the boy who got killed in Cujo. Oh shit. And and and I'm like in depth. Yeah, no, and it's like in the and then you learn about he and his he and the mother divorced and then they got back together years, decades later. And I'm just like I'm just and I am always happy to revisit those characters that like I grew up with as a kid. And there are just times I'm like, you know, I'd like to, I, you know, I'd like to I I'm always happy when an author is willing to say, here's what happened to this guy.
SPEAKER_00Or you know, and he needs to because he does it in his books.
SPEAKER_02Like, he is such a characterization author that like you care about these people so much like his his later series, like the Mr. Mercedes series.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, all of a sudden you realize you're like you're invested in a pen on a desk.
SPEAKER_02Yes. There's there's a character in that series named Holly Gibney who has become this fan favorite, and like so on my shelf, yet to read it, is a book called Holly. And like he's done in the trilogy, and then there was a novella that involved her, and another book that she was a side character, and it's like okay, I love it that he does that. It blows my mind. Like, do you think that motherfucker sleeps with all that amount of if you ever read his book on writing? Imaginary, just like he talks about the cocaine years.
SPEAKER_00Well, I hope he's not on the cocaine years.
SPEAKER_02No, he's done with all that, but like he it, you know, I mean, but and he tapped into something. It's really funny. The cocaine years, like you can see it in the writing. Like some of the like the book, like The Tommy Knockers, oh, just awful. Oh yeah, just terrible book. Just not not so great.
SPEAKER_00What was worse than the book was the show. Oh my god.
Part Two Tease And Closing
SPEAKER_02Jesus. I was all excited. Just awful. All right. We've touched on enough pop culture. We're gonna go into part two of managing people. So hey guys, like all right then. All right, hey, love you. Love you. You bet. Hey guys, you know what the beginning? Be just be decent to each other. We have a hard one. Employers, employers, be decent to your employees. Employees, be decent to your employers. Love you.
SPEAKER_01Cheers.
