Two Drinks In Again

Episode 56 - Divorce, part 1 (The Build-Up)

• Dave & Jeff • Season 1 • Episode 56

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The scariest part of divorce isn’t the paperwork. It’s the quiet moment when you realize something inside you has snapped and you can’t un-know it. We open a three-part series by telling the real origin stories of our first marriages, then following the slow drift into resentment, silence, and the kind of conflict that makes you feel like a stranger in your own home.

We talk about what pushes couples off course in the real world: long workweeks, long-distance stretches, money stress, parenting pressure, and the way big life decisions often get made with too many outside voices. We get specific about family dynamics and boundaries with in-laws, how communication breaks down into defensiveness or shutdown, and why contempt is the point where “fixing it” starts to feel impossible. We also get honest about therapy and couples counseling, what it can do when both people engage, and what it becomes when you’re just checking boxes before you leave.

Then we name the turning points. The “snap.” The months of treading water. The legal scramble. The fight over the narrative. And the day you tell your kids and watch their world change in real time. If you’ve ever asked yourself whether staying together is helping or harming everyone in the house, this conversation will feel uncomfortably familiar.

If this hits home, subscribe so you don’t miss part two, share the episode with someone who needs it, and leave a review. What do you think causes the most damage over time: resentment, silence, or outside interference?

Time Flies And Life Feels Fast

SPEAKER_00

Two Drinks in Again was not taped before a live studio audience. How the hell is it mid-June? I just got there quickly, didn't it? God bless it. Yuck, you want it to go by, but you don't want it to go by.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. So time is precious. I don't know. I hit Ferris Bueller in my head every day.

Work Overload And Family Travel

SPEAKER_00

Hey friends, it's Jeff. It's me, it's me, David T. And we are going to do just a few minutes of pleasantries because I feel like we have been building up to this three-parter that we're doing. This is like our Infinity Warslash Endgame. And then after that, probably every episode after this, we'll shit the bed, like the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, this isn't the most that we were.

SPEAKER_00

We'll have to find a doomsday after this. What's been going on? Not much. Oh my God. It's I'm busier than a one-legged man in a nast kicking contest. That's terrible.

SPEAKER_01

This is terrible. It's so I Like I would get to the point now where it's just on weekends where I'm just like a zombie. You know, it is like I'm just pride.

SPEAKER_00

It's the reverse for me because it's the week where I've just I I'm now at a point where I can quite literally do this in my sleep, and some days I do. Um and but but I'm in this weird universe now that I've not been in with my practice, and that because I am the only 10 care provider for orthodontics in a 75 mile radius. Big radius. I I have basically um eleven slots that we put braces on in during the week. Yeah. And all 11 of those slots are filled until Veterans Day.

SPEAKER_01

Hell yes, congrats.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. I've never been in this position before.

SPEAKER_01

Fucking phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00

It it is now really showing the need for an associate. Um, and like I've I've got a headhunter out there now looking for somebody, and it's just like the first that like the first person that drops a resume, I'll be like, when can you start? All right. The baton's about to go. Exactly. But other than that, it's just been a lot of travel, you know. Um I last weekend I was in Kansas City, Missouri, um meet visiting with my the Eberton cousins for the first time in 30 years.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's cool. And I hadn't seen it. I saw some of those photos, like your old stomping houses stuff. That was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I I took I showed Virginia the first two houses that I lived in, and then I showed the elementary school. Was that weird? Yes, it was because I'm gonna tell you what. Did you get emotional? No. No. Um that whole area of Overland Park, Kansas, was just very tired and very dated. Like it had seen better days. You were ready to get out of there. I don't know that. It's just I kind of expected to see some growth and advancement. Kind of like place.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Overland Park didn't do that. So like I'm driving by the place that used to be the AP, and now that's it's a wine and liquor store, you know, and I'm like, but it just still looks so it's like I rolled back into 1974. Oh, that's kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_01

You know, yeah, Mayberry type shit. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

And then what was funny about the second house that I lived in is that that that subdivision, it's called Heritage Estates, they um all the trees that everybody planted like 50 50 years ago are like monstrous now. And like I'm looking at I'm like, okay, my dad planted that fucking tree. That's so cool a million years ago. Oh, I love that. So then we did a this um we did this pontoon boat ride that my cousin Shelly has, uh, and and during that time we FaceTimed my mom, so she got to see everybody. But it was a good group. I got to see my dad's two brothers. Yeah, he was he was number seven out of eight. I got and the only two surviving ones are number six and number eight. So I got to see Don and Richard. And uh and so it was really, I think for them the first time they had seen anybody. Why Kansas? Is that where like your dad was born and everything? Well, he was can he was just south of Kansas City, about an hour south of Kansas City, Missouri, in a town called Clinton. I don't know why I thought that they were yeah. My grandfather was the sheriff of Henry County. Yeah. My dad lived in the jail for the first 12 years of his life. Yeah, it was. He really was, he was Opie. You know, he talks about that all the time.

SPEAKER_03

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00

And yeah, yeah. So so it was that's where the Clinton, Missouri is where it was in Henry County, and so and so that's the connection.

SPEAKER_01

I have I have found out that I still hate Ohio. I'm sorry. Oh my god, I hate that state, man. We went up there to see Bruno Mars at Columbus. One, I now have how was the concert? The concert, dude, is unreal. My daughter saw him in Charlotte. Yeah, just unreal, but I just am I I'm getting too fucking old to do the whole giant stadium football thing. I'm just like trying to find my seat and everything, you know what I mean? Like I just I don't I don't know, but my daughter loved it, that's all that mattered. But god, just driving in Ohio and being around everything in there like everything every time I've gone, everything is gray. Like it doesn't matter where you look, it's gray, it's like always overcast.

SPEAKER_00

Every building's just I don't recall ever being in Columbus. Yeah, and then this was her first time. My sister went to a college outside of there in Athens, Ohio, called Ohio University, the Bobcats. Yeah. And um so that's really my only real Ohio recollect that I have. I've gone to Cincinnati several times. I've been there, I've been there once, you know, actually twice. Saw uh was it called Riverbend Amphitheater or something like that? It was uh Matchbox 20 and Goo Goods on a double. I would say that's probably true. I mean, everything right there is on the water, but I just can't stand it, man. But I'll be traveling up to Ohio in September to Cleveland to see Rush. All right.

SPEAKER_01

I I just did it wrong too, because I just didn't not knowing where the fuck I was and just kind of like it was a Wednesday concert, so it was like getting her out of school and driving up there. Yeah, it was just like it got cramped. Yeah. But man, I mean, we got concert was over, and by the time we got back to the Airbnb, it was like two o'clock in the damn morning. I'm like, my God, dude, I'm I'm too old.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. We we went to Journey.

SPEAKER_01

Young man's game out there, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00

So we saw Journey a few weeks ago when they were here at Thompson Bowling. Great show. Yeah. I'd held out always because I thought after the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction that like Steve Perry might rejoin the group at some point. Right.

SPEAKER_01

But it wasn't a Knoxville.

SPEAKER_00

Well, he made it very clear. He put on a press release for this tour because it's called The Final Frontier. And he said, Yeah, guys, look, I know you're wishing, but you know, it's not happening. Go go enjoy at least he did that. Enjoy the little guy, you know, who's doing it. And that guy sings his balls off. I'm gonna tell you. It was it was a much better show than I had thought it would be. Right. Because I was always worried that it would sound like a cover band. Because I've like seen Foreigner without Lou Graham, and I've seen Kansas without Steve Walsh. And I'm like, yeah, like something you would like to shed. Right, exactly. Like, is it something that I mean, are you never? Right. If the drummer is the only original member in the group, like is it really the same band? Yeah, you know, right. So, but um, so yeah, but no, I was really pleased with it. It was good, good vibe. I mean, great show. Played all the hits, um, got Joe Jackson later this month, and then Rush, and then that's it. And I don't know what happens after this. I don't know. Because it really is crazy spensive.

SPEAKER_01

I've looked no, I can't stand it.

SPEAKER_00

I've looked at other tickets for shows, and I'm like, nah, I'm not doing this. Yeah, four tickets to Bruno Mars cost me a thousand dollars. Yeah. Yeah, that it's if that's if you want a decent seat.

SPEAKER_01

Right, but I mean, and that was in the fucking upper deck of shoes.

SPEAKER_00

That's bullshit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. It's just crazy. But I mean, again, I did it to put a a smile on a 15-year-old's face, and right, you know, that happened. No, these are the things we do. Yeah. These are the things we do.

SPEAKER_00

No, I mean, I I've talked before about how I took the kids to um see Billy Joel for the final concert at Madison Square Garden. Yeah. And that was great, but like my daughters just acted like Is New York still here?

SPEAKER_01

Is it is it still there? Because with the Knicks winning it, like every time. Oh god. I look up, man.

SPEAKER_00

I cannot even imagine the back and all that took place in New York City last night. Oh my god. And you know, I sadly I didn't I the game was on my radar, but I I I didn't watch it. I was watching I I officially watched my first FIFA World War.

Concert Highs And Ticket Price Rage

SPEAKER_00

Did you? I watched uh Scotland play Haiti. Awesome. So I'm pulling for Scotland in this one. And uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It's I've always, you know, like the big things like World Cup, Olympics, you know, I don't really care for soccer, but when later on in the World Cup, man, I I get I'm like, man, this is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00

Well, there are moments where it kind of gets a little monotonous. Oh, it's just all back and forth, and I'm like, oh great, I'm back in AYSO. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

It's exactly what it's like. Uh I uh yeah, I get frustrated with it because I always feel like they could be more offensive if they choose not to. Yeah. And I know I don't know the rules. I don't either. You know, they're just running for fun.

SPEAKER_00

Well, there's that offsides rule that I will never understand until the day I die. Like I didn't get it in AYSO, I didn't get it with high school soccer. It's like Cindy. You know, I just I know you guys. It's like you scored them. You scored. Oh, wait, no, we didn't because you called offsides. Uh I think it's this made-up rule that prevents the other team from scoring.

SPEAKER_01

It is. I can't yeah, I gotta see some sort of scoring. You know, I guess USA did well with the water. They did, Atlanta, they did well.

SPEAKER_00

And there's a it's interesting because I I started the only other time I've experienced kind of World Cup fever was 1998. And I was on deployment in the Mediterranean with the Navy at that time. And uh we had done a Liberty Port in uh Valencia, Spain, and uh my first wife, uh, which we'll segue into in a little bit, um, flew over uh with a bunch of other Navy officer wives, and we went, you know, we just kind of wandered around Valencia and Venadorm and places like that. And like courtyards of cities were just filled with chairs and people, big screens, the whole nine yards. And I'm like, okay, this is a madness that the Super Bowl can't really touch. No, because it's and and I was actually chatting with one of my classmates from my Gaelic class last night last night, who would have been it would have been like three o'clock in the morning over in Scotland when I was chatting with her. Yeah, and and I was like, Yeah, I said, I just you know I was telling her about that, and like it just made me realize like how little the Super Bowl is compared to all that. She goes, Yeah, I'll never understand American football for the life of me. I said, It took me really until now before I understood American football.

SPEAKER_01

So Yeah, no, that's just it's the global sport for sure, man.

SPEAKER_00

It really is. But it was it was a good game last night. I enjoyed watching it. So I'm pulling for Scotland all the way.

SPEAKER_01

I like it.

SPEAKER_00

Ala Bagu Bra.

SPEAKER_01

And uh but they probably have a better chance than the United States. USA always just sucks, don't they?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. But there's also a history where the host country seems to do well. Like in 19. How spread out it is. Yeah, right. I'm very shocked. Yeah. I I had for a hot minute looked for tickets up in Boston to go. Like we would have gone this weekend, I guess, if if if if we had had that option. Well, that'd have been good. But again, expensive. Yeah. I heard they're outrageous. I don't know how anyone does it. I was gonna say regular people, but now I feel like regular people. It's nuts. I mean, it's just I don't know how many people who make less than I do are like going to these events. You can't even afford to go to a UT football game. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like it's just crazy. Yeah, it's insane. And now when they build that whole district outside of it, you seen that? They're gonna knock down G10 and build like a whole like sports concert, restaurants, all that type of shit.

SPEAKER_00

I'm sure somebody thought that was a good idea. Or else they wanted to leave their legacy, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Here, I'm gonna fuck something up, you know. Oh, it's hilarious. Like it's their it's we're gonna knock down the strip. It's their version of right.

SPEAKER_00

It's gonna be their version of the victory arch, you know. And then we're gonna go into Fort Loudon Lake and paint the deck the paint the clay blue.

SPEAKER_03

Jesus.

SPEAKER_00

We won't even come to any of that shit

Markets, Money, And Whiplash

SPEAKER_00

going on. The market goes up, the market goes down. The market goes up, the market goes down.

SPEAKER_01

When it goes up, it goes up.

SPEAKER_00

I'm telling you, like I it defies and again, as I've said before on other episodes, if it's the billionaires that are keeping it all afloat, fine, take me along for the ride. Absolutely that's all I care about. Yeah, coattails, dude.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, seriously, it blew my mind a couple days ago, man.

SPEAKER_00

When I when I see it go up enough that I made more in one day than I do working at my job for a month, I'm like, why am I working? Oh, because the next day it dropped 900 points. That's why.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it's volatile.

SPEAKER_00

It's volatile.

Why We’re Finally Talking Divorce

SPEAKER_00

Great. So, friends, this is this is I feel like in the 50, this is episode 56, and I feel like in all of this time that we have been doing this, do we actually have a timestamp on when we actually started doing this? Like, how long have we been doing this now? Like three years, do you think? It's been a long time. It's been a long time we've been doing this. I'd say like we I I guess I'd check my photo, but and keep talking. No, I think I think it's been so here we are 56 episodes in, and I feel like this has been our own version of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, where we have been building to the Infinity War slash endgame uh one of the climaxes that's prop possible here.

SPEAKER_01

And so this we're gonna do a three-part series on the here's one picture of you and me in 2023, so in you know, with me actually with headphones on. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So we're gonna talk about divorce. All right, and you know, or you know, as David and I would subtitle this, the tale of two Allisons. And it still blows my mind. We are gonna do our best to keep this, I guess, polite. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No, I don't I don't think we're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00

We're not here to really trash anybody.

SPEAKER_01

No, this is more of just like just man, this is a thing that can happen in life.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it happens to over 50% of the marriages out there.

SPEAKER_01

Just like when we had um talking about grief, you know? Right, yeah. So I mean it's just it's a certain thing that yeah, there's a lot of shit that happens with it.

SPEAKER_00

And like you just said, a lot more there's a lot more people out there getting a divorce than what I tell people when after my divorce started, I kind of developed this little soundbite that when other friends would call me saying, Hey, we're done, I I would for the first question I would get be like, what's the dating life like out there? Oh god, but we'll get to the we'll get in that in a little bit. And then um we'll get that we'll get into that in in probably episode two, episode three.

SPEAKER_01

I just I feel like it's a I'm at that place now though, too, that I'm not bitter about it anymore. No, I'm not either. I I mean I there was a time I was fucking bullshit bitter.

SPEAKER_00

No, I'll we'll go in I'll go into that in episode two then.

SPEAKER_03

Um I bet you will.

SPEAKER_00

Oh lordy.

David’s Fast Start To Marriage

SPEAKER_00

Um but so why don't you why don't you start by talking about how you met your first wife and and kind of the progress up to getting married, met her through work, um, just immediately attracted, you know, just it was one of those things that I just man, I just needed to get to know her.

SPEAKER_01

Um I I was in my early 20s. Um and you know, we just started seeing each other, and it was it was fast-paced, and it was hey my gosh, this is checking all the boxes, she was smart, she's funny, we were having a good time. Um, and it was just one of those things, it's like, okay, the that what's the next step here? Let what what are we waiting on? Um, and next thing I know, you know, I'm buying a ring. So um that that's how it all started. I mean, it was just one of those things of you know, can I think there's even a song about it started with a beer. I mean, we just that was our first date. We went to a I think it was a Bailey's in Nashville, uh, and had a couple beers and had some laughs, and you know, it was you know, it's like it's like any other time when you start to fall in love with somebody, man. It's just like the butterfly, the birds are singing a little bit louder, the sky's a little bit bluer. I mean, I was hook line and sinker there. I mean, I don't think there was any a time where I was sitting there going, oh geez, like should I or shouldn't I? You know, right. I jumped right in and it was at the time it seemed like the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_00

So how long did you guys date until you proposed?

SPEAKER_01

Six months. Oh wow, yeah. Okay, yeah, it was not a it was not a quick thing. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. That sounds quick to me.

SPEAKER_01

Well, uh, yeah, I mean what's it? It was a slow process. Yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00

And then after you got engaged, how long until you got married?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I think from start to finish, uh a year.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So you were married a year after starting to see. Yeah, like start, yeah, start to finish, like, hey, we're we're dating, and then year later we're married.

SPEAKER_00

How many things did you guys kind of have to work out ahead of time before you went, or did you did you like, well, this is what I would want out of life, this is what where do we want to live and that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I I and I've told everybody this is like all all the boxes were checked. It was just like, oh, okay, like everything lined up. I mean, it was well, okay. I mean, there's one box that didn't get checked, but I ignored it, and that probably is a downfall thing. But I mean, I always tell everyone, it's like, make sure every box is checked. If it's not, then it's sooner or later that one that's not checked will pop up and start growing. Um, and I think that's essentially what happened to us. But um, yeah, it it it was a no-brainer at that time. It was just one of those things, like, yeah, you you know, spiritually, you know, how we were gonna raise kids, how many we wanted, you know, like all that stuff, and you know, come from a good family, you know, just it made sense. Right.

Jeff’s Duke Meet Cute To Wedding

SPEAKER_00

Allison and I met. Um, I was a senior at Duke, she was a sophomore, and I was in the a cappella group at Duke, the pitchforks of Duke University, which was like being in a boy band. Um uh the GLF was high. Uh get laid factor. Um and so we were singing in her dormitory on East Campus called Giles, and I just made eye contact with her, and she made eye contact back and smiled. And there we go.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, who's this? This is cute, it's always in the smile, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

This is cute, you know. And I had just ended a relationship. That was about uh over a year I'd been with this. She had just graduated from Duke, but she had stayed in the area because of me. That was a lot of yeah, this is kind of like the tale of two relationships in the beginning uh taking place. And that was uh, you know, talk about feeling responsible for somebody. And I'd said, look, go do your thing if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. But also I wanted to have my senior year, sure, you know, without being encumbered in a way, which is what she ended up that you know, that's this particular woman feeling. Anyway, so I'd broken up with her and I'd met Allison and and uh and so we started seeing each other and and whatnot, and it was a lot of are we doing this, are we not doing this? Are we doing this? Are we not doing this? And then uh I went back with the previous girlfriend after the Christmas holidays, but kind of staying in contact, like not getting together, but yeah, staying in contact with Alliance. And then finally at the end, at the end of um, at the end of my senior year, I just broke up with that relate ended that relationship, immediately went to Allison, and we were nonstop ever since. And so we had the complication that I was going to be going to dental school in um Philadelphia, and she was still going to be a Duke for two more years. I had tried to get into the University of North Carolina's dental school, which is a bitter pill to swallow, but you know, I would have done it if need be, just so I could be in the vicinity. But so for uh the first two years of dental school, like about I would say about six times a semester, we found a way to get together. We we made the distance work, yeah. Um, and then I got engaged uh July 3rd, 1992, on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial without without gilded gilded statues. Um she was uh working as uh in an internship with um a healthcare company and uh uh living in Washington DC for the summer. So that's when we got engaged, and then after that the parents met and that seemed to work okay. Yeah. Uh and then um and and then uh we got married uh July 31st, 1993. Nice. And uh and so that's uh so yeah, it was about yeah, about two years after uh you know, I wanted her to graduate from college first, and then and and yes, that that all of this had a say in the world.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we were we were both done.

SPEAKER_00

Where she went to law school. So she applied to schools in Philadelphia and got into Villanova, and that's where she went to law school. And so we we got married and then we lived in you know, just outside Philadelphia for the time that we were there. But Our our relationship was also beset with a lot of time that we were doing distance. Gotcha. So we probably navigated that fairly well. Right. But it was a big challenge throughout all of our marriages. We though did not have all of the con the boxes were not all checked. Um and and the big one being, well, where do you think we need to live? I I had always maintained after going to Duke that yes, the Southeast is probably I was thinking more ACC territory, coastal and whatnot. Yeah. Um I would later come to find out that their idea of South was living in Tennessee. I got you. So that is how I am here. Um and uh but so that's that's how we got together. And you know, I mean we talked about, you know, we always knew we were gonna have kids and everything like that. So when so you go so how soon after you got married did you guys have kids?

SPEAKER_01

Probably two years. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it was a it was like a year and a half of of fun. Yeah. Just doing shit, yeah, doing it like the quote unquote right way before, you know, just kind of do what you gotta do. No, yeah, I get that. Um and then it was like, well, okay, what now? You know, right. And we were able to get a decent starter home and and it was having the fun of trying now. Yeah. But it didn't take us long. Dylan came uh rather quickly, so um, and then that yeah. Yeah, about two years.

SPEAKER_00

We were about so we I was twenty-five turning twenty. I was uh twenty-five and a half when I got married. And so it was about six years we had. So it was about us finishing up our postgraduate degrees, and then we had our military commitments. We both did the Navy. She was a Jag officer in the Navy, and I was like, Yeah, you had too much going on to have a lot going on to have kids at the time. But um You know, and and so that that kind of thing. So, you know, we did two years distance going back and forth, and then it was our third year of marriage when I got stationed out in San Diego with her finishing up her final year of law school in Philadelphia.

Long Distance And Navy Stress

SPEAKER_00

That was a bit of a dick punch that the U.S. Navy did. I mean, I couldn't like I had put in on my you know dream sheet, like Washington, D.C., Philadelphia Naval Yard, places like that, even up in Connecticut, you know, and they sent me to King. I I remember it like because I had not been to officer school yet. His name was Captain Robinson, and he he's the detailer and he's on the phone and he goes, Well, you're going to San Diego. I go, you gotta be fucking kidding me. Like, no, sir, nothing like that. I go, You can be fucking kidding. I go, I said, Captain Robinson, where where on my sheet did it say anything of the West Coast. Of the West Coast. I said, I've got a wife here that's still got a year of law school to finish up. And so I don't care. He they no, because they in in in the naval indoctrination school, they'll tell you it's about the needs of the Navy, and that's what anybody who goes in the military needs to understand. It is no longer about you, your ass is owned, right? You know, for that. I don't doubt that one bit. And so everyone's gotta re you gotta be okay with that. Yeah. Um, but so I moved out to San Diego after officer school, and um I I mean, I had a wonderful time living out there, right? Things might have been different if she had been with me. Like we might our marriage might have endured better. Yeah, you know, I just think I have an appreciation for the West Coast that she will never have because I lived there, right? And had had I not been married, or had Alison been with me the whole time, had we been the same age, we probably would have stayed out on the West Coast, and who knows, we might have ended up living out there.

SPEAKER_01

So were there cracks developed while you were out west?

SPEAKER_00

Not yet. Um I did there were some temptations that were out there in California, you know, and and um I, you know, I I held up to that, you know, I was fine the whole time. Um, it really wasn't until we got back together. Um, and it wasn't just a year we were apart because then as we were, you know, she came out to California and then we moved back crossing the country, and we stopped in in at her parents' house just north of Nashville for a couple days. And that was the first time living in Knoxville had been brought up. Um her mother had said, Well, when you guys live in Knoxville, la la la la. I was gonna let that slide. And then about 10 minutes later, she said something like that again. I said, Okay, yeah, I'm gonna put the brakes on this for a second.

SPEAKER_02

What are we talking about?

SPEAKER_00

Somebody has clearly put in your head that we are going to live in Knoxville. We haven't talked about anything, we have not we have not decided anything. We still have a lot to do before we get to that decision point.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

So let's not make any presumptions here. Just watch her mother's name was Alice. So you have Alice and Alice's son. A lot of people thought that was a little kind of weird too. But you know, it is what it is. But I you I was watching her jaw tighten up the whole time I'm saying this to her, you know. And and so what I kind of think developed after that was she and her mother kind of talked, and it was like, okay, you just humor him and give him a sense of security, and then we'll just hit him square between the eyes with this. Oh, that's that's what it feels like happened. It was very insidious the way it was challenged. For everyone, anyone who wants to paint me a villain in how our marriage ended, it really kind of started then, and so this would have been about August of 1996. Gotcha. So, um, yeah. So

Family Pressure And Resentment Grows

SPEAKER_00

then we we end up uh living in Norfolk, Virginia for a few years, and we had a great life there. Yeah. We um, you know, we were both involved in the Navy. We had our functions to go to, and she got to know everyone who all the officers on my ship and the wives, and was very active and involved in that. We had a church that we went to, she had a women's group that she was involved with, she had friends, we had a friends group that we and they were all it was just a great life we had going on there. And I I actually could have built a nice life down there in Hampton Roads. And um, you know, but I still had this drive to go into ortho residency, and you know, it was well, we're just we're just anyone who takes me, you know, we'll just school guys. Wherever we go. So we ended up going back to Philadelphia, and that I think rubbed her side of the family a little bit wrong. Just that we were back there, we were an hour away from my parents. Some people felt that was a little unfair. Yep. And as that's all happening, we got pregnant. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01

So, you know, and I tell you what, the word resentment can, you know, if something happens.

SPEAKER_00

It is a cancer in any relationship if you have any kind of resentment. It just um it you it is a gaping wound that will never heal. Never, never, it just metastasizes, you know, unless you are a good communicator, which I wasn't. I was not, I was a terrible communicator. So, yeah. So anyway, so we ended up back in Philadelphia. We actually lived in Trenton, New Jersey, and she was working at the naval base out by Asbury Park and kind of in Springsteen country, and then I was going to school in Philadelphia. So we each had about an hour commute. Yeah, and then we had a child, we had Jacqueline, and um that was I I mean, I you know, I've since told Jaclyn that one of my bigger regrets I've had in the younger years is I wasn't as present as I should have been. And just I was so focused on getting through this orthodontic residency. Yeah, my program director was just a cock. He was just he's this Turkish, little short little Turkish guy, but like he had the Jedi mind trick and like this look that just made your blood run cold. And like you were told every week you could be kicked out of the program, go enjoy your life as a general dentist, Dr. Eberting. You are, you know, when you're no longer in this program. And I'm just like, and it was just not a way, it was just a very abusive, um, volatile situation, and at the same time having a baby, yeah. A little bit of a stress and a wife who was put off living up here with nobody else around her, you know, that she could turn to. So so that good that is about where it was really after I got back from deployment in 1998, segueing into the orthodontic residency is when the cracks really started to appear. I gotcha. So how about for you?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I mean the cracks I would raising our we're raising our first kid, I think it was it was okay. I could s I could start to see things starting to change just because we weren't we weren't in our tw, you know, we weren't young 20s and like we really needed to focus in on money and you know, just you're an adult now, you're a freaking parent. And you know, those things started to change.

SPEAKER_00

And um they started to fight when the money got tight, and they just didn't count on the tears. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I you know, it was we had one thing that they were f finding out later on developed resentment, and it was due to work. Um, and it was something that I never even knew existed, and that's how we eventually got back here um from from Nashville, well, Thompson Station to to here. Um and in my mind it was something that you know it probably shouldn't have been resented about, but a very similar thing of like, well, I'm no I'm not near who I need to be near. Um were you both working even after you had kids? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What did she do? She's a she she's a registered dietitian. Okay. And she she bounced around a little bit, and now I'm I don't know what the hell she does now. I'm and I'm sure it's still with nutrition, but I have no fucking clue now. Right. But but um Yeah, it was I don't know, man. It was just it was one of those things of again, I was not the communicator that I needed to be, you know. I think she was going through some resentment and I was becoming unhappy but wasn't telling anybody. And that was those are two little volatile kind of situations that you just kind of let grow. What was her parents' marriage like? Um so they were both on their I think her dad's on like her third or fourth marriage. Okay, and she's um she's on her her second. Okay. Yeah, so it's she she has experienced the two household situation in a way. So I was I was the first and only out of my mom and dad, both my brothers. I like I was the first like black sheep of actually not being able to make a marriage

Communication Breakdowns And Gaslighting

SPEAKER_01

work. Yeah, I was the I'm the only one that's divorced.

SPEAKER_00

Um yeah, with with with Allison's parents, they there was a lot of volatility there that I saw exist right at the beginning of our relationship. And when we got married, we you know there was there was some events that took place right after we got married, and I'm not gonna go into that here. Not for my story to tell. But um although I wish it were hypocrisy. Um, anyway, uh we made a promise to each other that we wouldn't be what her parents had become. Oh, I got you. And not that my parents had a better marriage, but there was always very clearly communication between the two of them. Now, I was a very shitty communicator during my first marriage. I mean, and actually I was a very shitty communicator for a long time. Right. Um it's a repeated theme that had come up for quite some time, but but uh no, it and so um we but we promised each other that we would not become them and then we became them. Right. And and I think it's again, same thing resentments, lack of communication. But even if there were attempts at communication, it was just not being hurt, it was a lot of gaslighting. Um and well, you know, so well, this is how you did it. Well, you did this to me, and it's like so you come away from the conversation feeling that one you your your issue has not been addressed, and second of all, now you're made to feel like a piece of shit on top of that. Yeah, and and that just starts to get tiresome after a while.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I would just shut up, you know. And that probably that's the probably the worst thing that you can probably do. And I I would I just I would shut up and then just kind of continue to just like walk on eggshells to where like I just like exactly I'll just do whatever I gotta do to prevent an argument. Yep. Because I just I'm tired, I don't want to do it. Yep, and that you know that's pretty stupid. Yeah, and and you can one of the things you can't do that in a marriage, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know what I mean? Yeah, that my therapist sent me this email this a couple years ago, and I still have it, and it's a the four horsemen of of you know relationship damage, and the big one is contempt. When you start just having contempt for your partner and everyone else around them, yeah, then then that's that that's the beginning of the end. Yeah. And yeah, that's pretty brutal. It's and and so that's kind of no one's happy at that point. No, no, and it was just you know, I felt I had done more giving than they had. I mean, you know, it w it would just like Christmases were were difficult because I don't think m my ex-wife's family, or particularly her mother, really wanted to share with now we have these other you have my parents now that are part of the mix. Christmases play a role in that. Like they, you know, my if my ex- There's two families. If my ex-mother-in-law had had her way, we they sh they would have just had us and the kids every year for Christmas. And that she would have, honest to God, thought that that was fair.

SPEAKER_01

Whoops.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I mean, seriously, it just wasn't that type of issues. Yeah, no, and so and so and there was you know, and there was a little bit of parental competition. Not really, I think her parents made it more of a competition than my parents ever did. My parents were I mean, her parents were are are are affluent. I mean, they got a hundred and fifty acre farm out in Portland, Tennessee, you know and and um and among other properties and stuff like that too. And then they, you know, moved over here to Loudoun uh when her dad got Alzheimer's and everything. But you know, I mean they they done well, right, and you know, I think though my parents were slightly more affluent and they were willing to help us out when we when I was still in residency and not earning anything, you know, and yeah, and and whatnot. And I think there was a little resentment on that end as well, in addition to us being an hour away from my parents when I was in residence, right? And and so just all of those factors. I think there were too many chefs in the kitchen is is also what was a big problem. If if we had been yeah, that can't be good. I don't think that if we met each other at the ages like like at 35 or 40, I think it would have been different, you know. I think we would have been able to build our own.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm no saint, seriously. I told you before we got done. Like it this was a two-way street. Yeah, sure. 100%. Right. I this is not a like it failed just because of this, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and I think that's what a lot of people need to understand. Like, it it unless you're dealing with someone who's a complete and total narcissist sociopath. And and and listen, I I'll be full transparent to our listeners here.

Narcissism, Parents, And Too Many Voices

SPEAKER_00

I am what I call a recovering narcissist. And and I have looked at the shit that I have done in the past of my life, and I have looked at it with horror. And it's very difficult for narcissists to break that personality disorder, and I won't say that I've broken it, but I'm aware of it. Yeah, uh, and and it is a day-to-day management of the shit that comes out of your mouth, yeah. Uh trying not to hurt people's feelings, trying to be considerate about other people, trying to be present for other people, and um you know, but she was one too, you know, and and so it was a marriage of two narcissists and and uh and fan and parents who were also narcissists, hers and mine. Yeah. Um, you know, and so yeah, there was a lot of chefs. A lot of chefs in the kitchen, and people who felt that they should, and my you know, my father, bless his heart, he he um bless his memory, he you know, he wanted to have his say in things too, and and you know, like one of the one of the oh my god, bless one of the most damaging things he did to me. And it wasn't intended to be damaging, but when we started my residency in orthodontics, he you know sat down with both of us and he was really just trying to give her the message of I think at the end of the day, when you look at like what you're doing in the Navy Jag Corps, there may be some things you have to say, no, I can't do that. Because you're not looking at doing this for a Navy career, you're not gonna be doing this for 20, 25 years. So you can take some steps that you would would might jeopardize a long timer's career. Gotcha. Because we're doing this in the interests of Jeff getting through his residency and what have you. Well, that went over like a lead balloon. I bet that was that was basically him saying your your job is worthless, you know. And and I and I later told him, I said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you did me no favors. I I understand what you were doing, yeah. But and it was from a place of peace and love. Yeah, but you you helped you did me no favors. And that was that was probably another moment that was sort of the beginning of the end, yeah, you know, but I can see that, you know.

SPEAKER_01

My biggest piece is you know, we all change. Oh yes. Yeah, I mean, we all change. And as the changing was taking place, it was okay. I I don't know how this, you know, we used to be this pretty cool little jigsaw puzzle, but now that the table's kind of gotten hit a little bit, the you know, the pieces aren't all as perfectly.

SPEAKER_00

They're separating, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they're separating. So um that was our biggest thing, and and again, the the one box thing, and that I won't say what it is, but I mean it was a reoccurring, it just would not go away. It was just a reoccurring argument, reoccurring fight, where it's just like, oh, and then we would choose to ignore it, and then it would come right back, and then it just it never stopped. And as that one thing kept popping up and changing, it you know, it got to the point where it's like, man, I kind of this is we're both extremely the fuck unhappy.

Knoxville, Success, And A Life Facade

SPEAKER_01

What are we doing?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, during that time so we got to the end of residency, it ended up being Knoxville that we ended up coming to, and that that is just the fates steered me in that direction. Um, I feel if I had opened up my search for job, uh like I'd searched for positions between Winston-Salem and Nashville, and there was a heavy push by my then mother-in-law uh for Nashville. Like, she contacted every orthodontist in the area, like to and I'm just like, oh my god, you know, like don't do this for me, right? And appreciate it, but and and and just too many people in that it started being like her my ex-mother-in-law's sisters and then you know, Allison's cousins, and everybody like, well, everyone's wondering where it is we're going to drop anchor when it's all said and done. I'm like, we have not decided yet.

SPEAKER_01

Relax.

SPEAKER_00

You know, and I am not gonna build a practice, I'm not gonna start a practice from scratch because I I I couldn't imagine doing that in the Nashville area. Um one, not wanting to live there, and then I've got to build a business in a place that I don't really want to be. Yeah, you know, it's no bueno. So we um so yeah, so it's just so we ended up buying Dr. Price's practice here in Knoxville, and we came here and um and at as that was as residency was wrapping up, and we were moving here is when Juliana was born. Yeah. So um, and so yeah, so then we moved in here and started building a life, and you know, it was going to church at Coxbury United Methodists, and then going to the Wednesday Night Supper thing at Cokesbury United Methodist, and and um feeling like feeling like a poser the entire time that I'm there, you know.

SPEAKER_01

There was so much of where it became a facade, yeah, to where it's just like, man, we're just we're not Ozzy and Harriet. Why the fuck are we acting like it? Yeah. And yeah. I mean, I get it, it's the right thing to do, and we were raising kids.

SPEAKER_00

I really, when we first got together and got married, I really dreamed that we could just be this power couple team. I really I believe that. Of course you did. I believe that, and I still I still do. We could have been that. Yeah. Of course you do.

SPEAKER_01

You didn't go into it thinking you're gonna fucking fail at it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no. We I just thought that we could take on the entire world together and and we would be this force to be reckoned with. And I feel like that. Her mother and my father got in the way of a lot of that. That sucks. And um and then and then this big debate over where it was we were going to ultimately live. Yeah. And so um, so and that's so we're here, and so then we make a life for ourselves. And, you know, the practice is growing, and I'm having success, and you know, it gets to, you know, we build this monstrous building in Marival and whatnot. And then on top of that, you know, feeling full of myself, I buy this 43 acres over in Louisville, and you know, and then it became like, well, what do we do with that? You know, like, and she she thought she wanted to have a farm because she grew up before Her.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And, you know, and she thought, you know, we'll have lambs and we'll have goats and we'll have all this. And I'm like, and all I can see is, yeah, and I'm gonna be the motherfucker taking care of. I mean, basically, she wanted to have what Strach's farm, what Strach and Margarita have. Right. Um, but but it would be she would expect me to be doing to be shoveling out the stables and all that shit. Yeah. And and it was her dream but not yours. It was it was her dream and not my she wanted the dream, she just didn't want to do the work. Uh and I didn't want to do that at all. Yeah. And so that kind of stalled for a little bit. And uh, and then you know, you just and then we had Jeffrey, and you know, so you keep thinking that, you know, so here I am, I now live in Tennessee, I'm building this life, we've got children, we keep having children. I buy 43 acres, and you think that it's all gonna get better. Yeah, and then one day you just realize it's not gonna get better, right? And then you fall for somebody else.

The Third Party Reality

SPEAKER_00

And that's about as far as I want to go on that comment. You know, I mean, you everyone who's listening, you can just read between the lines on all that, because what I did learn about most divorces, 90% have somebody else involved. Uh, there's a third party. And uh, so you know, and you know, my I know my daughters know about that, and I've talked with them about that. And but anyway, so that's that's kind of where I got to the point. And then so when when did you have the moment that you knew this has to end?

SPEAKER_01

Uh something was said. It just you know, I won't go into it, but I mean it was like during an argument, something was said to where it that it was just it was I don't want to say it was an epiphany, but I I or it was just like the guillotine dropped. It was like, okay, I quit. Like that that's it. You know, I I'm not I'm not going any further with this. And and I I never looked back, man. I don't know. I think it probably might have shocked her, like something that was said and I mean did she have any idea it was coming? Oh, I think so. Okay, yeah. I we had we had a good amount of time to where, you know, you know, there there's always crossroads, right? And we we had a crossroad and it in agreement, like, man, we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna fight for this. And that went on for like two years. And then, you know, it's like man, I we're we were both done. I mean, we really were, but I I don't know how much you know I I don't know how much she was truly expecting me to just I think maybe she might have thought that I would have I was just always gonna stick my tail between my legs and just be quiet and not fight

Counseling Doubts And Therapy Expectations

SPEAKER_01

back. I guess. Did you guys do counseling at all? Yes. Wow. That was all part of that bullshit facade in two years stuff, and you're just checking off the boxes before you exit. Yeah. Yeah. And I was God, I got so furious on that. So we were seeing this one particular person for a while, and then come to find out, like, she had just recently been divorced. And I looked at her and I was like, wait a minute. Like, you're divorced and you're sitting in here telling us what we need to do to stay married. Like, fuck that. I was done.

SPEAKER_00

Like, did did it any time it feels like did it any time it feel like your your counselor was skewing more toward one side over the other?

SPEAKER_01

Um sometimes. Uh yeah, sometimes, but I don't know if I was looking into it just because I was you know on the defensive. Yeah. Yeah. You know, uh I don't think I was in the right state of mind of of that, you know. It was just I've never been a big fan of counseling. I just I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00

I think it depends on I I think with counseling for I think with any therapy, counseling, whatever it is you're doing, psych psychological treatment, you don't go in thinking that this is just gonna go on forever. You go you go in with an end date in my so how long do we need to do this to get this going? This is where where Virginia and I kind of our paths diverge in the woods a little. Like I, you know, I see a therapist, I've seen him for like four years now, and four years or so. Yeah, four years, I think. Maybe. He's great. I love him to death. But then I wonder what is what is the day that we say we're we're Jeff, go fly and be free.

SPEAKER_01

Right. You know, yeah. I need I need that goodwill hunting moment.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, you know what I mean? And we it's not your fault. Exactly. Right and that's it. But we we have also talked about Virginia and I have talked about revisiting a counselor just to prepare for being empty nesters so that we're at our A game. You know, it's not like there's any really anything going on. I mean, what the fuck are we about to become empty nesters? I mean, hello, right? It's gonna be great. Marinate ourselves in alcohol, walk around the house naked, you know, all that kind of shit, you know. But but um, but that was something Allison and I never had. Right. And and and and we stopped having fun with each other too.

Marriage Lessons: Boxes And Dating

SPEAKER_00

And it was just our values became different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um yeah, I the two things that I have learned the most from this, if like if if like if Dylan sat down and we talked about it, and like he's says he wants to get married, like you have got to make sure all boxes are checked.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Period. And if they're not, sorry, you're gonna have to move on. And then but always be dating. Like if you you start losing that where you're not dating that person, it's just it's never good. You gotta have that fire, and you gotta have you know, worst thing that possibly can happen to me in a marriage is where you just become roommates. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it's just bad. Yeah, you know, uh for anybody. Like that's just that's not what it's meant to be.

SPEAKER_00

So I have likened what I asked you about that moment where you knew it was over. Yeah. I I say it's this the snap. Yep. Something inside snaps. Yep. And then you sp after that you spend time treading water. And during that tread, water, you're like you could be getting your ducks in a row, you know, I mean just getting things ready for when the you've got to lower the boom. And that can take anywhere between two months and two years.

Jeff’s Snap Moment At The Farm

SPEAKER_00

And so for me, it was the snap moment that I have. We were at my former in-laws farm. It was, I think, Easter weekend, I think that's what it was. And Juliana, you know, was eating lunch and like she wouldn't eat all of her food. I said, Well, if you don't eat all your food, you don't get you know, cookie or whatever for for for dessert or anything like that. Yeah. And so Alice went ahead and gave her a cookie afterward. I was like, God Jesus, Alice, what do I just tell her? Allison put her hand up like this just to say, stop to me. And this cold feeling just came right over me. And I'm like, that's it. I don't matter here. I really don't matter here at all. Right. Nobody cares how I feel. Um, for a while I was a dick in a wallet, and now I'm just a wallet. Uh I that's how I've and afterwards all I became was a wallet and a bank account and IRA transfers and all that kind of shit. So um, but but yeah, and so that that was just the that was just the real shock moment for and I remember the rest of that weekend walking around the house, kind of just taking in each room like as if this was going to be the last time that I was ever gonna be in this house. I was like a mo and and I still went out to visit a couple more times after that, yeah. But but that was really, really the end for me. I gotcha. And I had actually talked about separating a few months after that moment, and that really kind of hit her. So she kind of I kind of gave her warnings that this was coming, or at least this is where my head was. Yeah. Um I and I and I believed all of this. I said this at the time, and I said, I think we love each other, but we're not in love with each other. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I said that's a big damn deal.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And I said, I think that we prevent each other from being our best selves. Um, I think I I wonder if each of us would find a better life without the other. Yeah. And I said, I I love the children as much as I as I you know as much as you do. You know, that that's not a competition. Um, but I just I think we prevent each other from being our best selves. Yeah. And it's just now at a point where I worry what our continued marriage, how that will affect our children. Because I do believe that her parents staying together has, well, I mean, she been through a divorce, her her brother has been through two divorces, you know. And um, and so I believe that that watching a uh tempestuous marriage, yeah, but you stay together because, well, that's the Christian thing to do. You know, we aren't getting divorced. It will be a public stain upon our face here in Portland, Tennessee. Praise Jesus. You know, that kind of thing. And and and I felt bad, and I felt bad for both my in-laws, because I do wonder if either of them wishes they could have found happiness. Did they did they find that happiness by staying together at some point? I don't know. Right. It's not a question I'll ever ask. My father-in-law has my ex-father in law has since passed on. Um, and um, but you know, it's it's um so that that's where it is. So this cold feeling came over me, and then it took me about 11 months after that to finally have the conversation.

The 2008 Talk That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_00

And um and so, yeah, so it was February 1st, 2008, and we had just had a fight the day before in front of the kids, and it was stupid. We were we were looking at reflooring, recarpeting the first floor of the house, and I was talking on my phone with my dad about this, what we're doing, and Allison's like, Well, we in the background, she's like she's one of those people that like feels they need to be a part of their your phone conversation and like talk even though they can't hear what the person on the phone is saying, you know. Yeah, that was a familial trait, and um I and and so I and sh and and I go, well, okay, I guess I haven't decided anything. And so she we had a little uh a short conversation after it. And I said, because this is what happened prior to us getting married, this is where her mother first exerted where I saw the possibility of her mother being a problem in our marriage. We had gone out and done the bridal registry, and we had picked out everything we liked and we were all good with it, and then she took her mother to show the bridal registry, and her mother was, you know, assuming that's a little expensive, water for crystal, you know, that kind of shit. Because we're I was posh like that, and um and um went and changed just about everything that Allison and I had choosed together. So that sent the message right away. So fast forward to 2008, and I'm I remember I'm standing at the kitchen sink, and she's something and I said, I just think it's really rich to talk about you, you talk about feeling like my father has some say in what we're doing here when your mother completely upended our bridal registry. And she said, Don't think I don't ever remember, and don't think I I don't regret what happened there. And I said, Well, it kind of has set the tone for this entire marriage. And so the next morning we wake up and Allison is kinda is awake and she says to me, We're just laying there in bed, and she said, So Jacqueline wants to know if you and I are splitting up. And I said, I think we need to talk about that. And I said, Look, I think I think we love each other, but we don't, we're not in love with each other. I said, I think we prevent each each other from being the best that we can be.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I said, I think we have just completely grown apart and we want different things out of life, and that's irreconcilable. And and I said, and I I'm just ready to move on. And she's laying there going, Oh God. Oh God. So she then goes to Middle Tennessee for a few days, spends the night there. And I guess she was getting her ducks in a row, and she's an attorney, so she was wired into the system very quickly. Right. And um and so, yeah. Um there was about a month where we sort of kind of talked back and forth. We discussed counseling, we discussed uh, we discussed all that. I I was kind of late to the table and I had not gotten an attorney. Like I had a fraternity, I had a number of my friends had known that this was coming, and one of my fraternity brothers had said, Jeff, if you haven't spoken to an attorney, you need to talk to one now. It was two months before I lowered the boom.

Attorneys, Narratives, And Moving Out

SPEAKER_00

And he said, and and the big thing that I heard, and I don't know if you heard this from others, if you talked about any of your issues with any of your friends or anything like that, but everyone who's been through this has said you only get one shot on this big ball. Yeah. And you know, life is too short to be miserable. And and that is what any divorced person will tell you. And um, so my big mistake was I did not get an attorney ahead of time. She went and got Caesar Stare, which, if any one of our listeners in the Knoxville area knows who Caesar Stare is, that meant that this was not gonna go well for me. Uh I tried, she had locked, she had also polluted two other attorneys. Oh, geez. And like the two other good ones in the area. So I was left with, I called my banker and I said, Who do you recommend? And she gave me the name of somebody, and I used him, and that's who we had. And so we during the month of February, we had, you know, we had talked about things. She told me she had filed, um, that she's retaining an attorney, she's filing. She talked about taking the kids and moving to Middle Tennessee. And I said, Then you clearly know about a forecast for snow and hell. Uh, because that that there's no way that's gonna happen. She goes, You don't want them. You've never wanted them. And that was I didn't like how she was steering the narrative that I didn't want to be a father, right? You know, yeah, that's gonna suck. Yeah, and and like, no, you don't get to spin this because you're hurt, and I get it, you're hurt by all of this, but um, yeah, so so you know, kept back and forth, and I was sleeping in the guest room and whatnot, and I just and finally I found an apartment. Yeah, and I said, I'll be across town. And she's like, Well, why don't you get the apartments that are right outside our subdivision? I'm like, Because I don't want to be, I don't want to be that accessible for you if if like the garbage disposal breaks, like that is not gonna be your problem. You're gonna realize the utilitarian value I have here, you know, but you're gonna have to get other people to fucking help you out because I am not going to do that because you don't care enough about me that I'm I'm not here to make this easy for you. And so I moved in an apartment, and so on February 23rd of 2008, I moved

Telling The Kids And The Aftermath

SPEAKER_00

out. And that was the day we told the kids. And if I have to live a hundred lifetimes over, I never want to relive that day again. Oh, brutal. It is awful.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I oh, it's awful. It's awful, awful, awful. We told them about it. I'll never forget the look of myself.

SPEAKER_00

Juliana was laying on top of me crying, and then she pulled up and looked at me and she said, Well, goodbye, daddy. And I just wanted to die. Oh my god. Yeah, I just wanted to die. Yeah. And trying, so yeah, that that's so, and then after that, she took them all to go see a movie while I brought friends in and a truck to move everything I was gonna take, and then I moved into my new apartment. Yeah, and that's where part one comes to an end.

Part One Ends And Part Two Tease

SPEAKER_00

How about you?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I I mean, it was just a bad day. I mean, yeah, it's just that was that was brutal. Yeah. Yeah, not fun.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We'll be back with part two divorce. The process.

Contributor

Dave & Jeff

Host