Two Drinks In Again
Dave and Jeff have (at least) two drinks and talk about the goings-on in the Knoxville metro area. Sports, music, restaurants, movies, and really anything is up for discussion. Join us for some information and a lot of laughs.
Two Drinks In Again
Episode 58 - Divorce, part 3 (The Aftermath)
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Divorce doesn’t end when you move out or when the papers get stamped. The real shift hits afterward, when the noise dies down and you realize you have to rebuild a whole life with the same job, the same kids, and a brand new sense of self. We get into the immediate aftermath: the freedom, the weird joy of simple routines, and the hard truth that autonomy feels great until you notice what the marriage trained you to swallow.
We also talk about what makes co-parenting after divorce livable, especially when an ex still tries to run your home by text. Boundaries matter. So does the kind of relationship you build with your kids: a place where they can call you first, solve the problem first, and talk through the lesson later. Along the way we unpack what healthy communication actually looks like in a second marriage or long-term partnership, including psychological safety, naming fears out loud, and offering real apologies instead of defensiveness.
Then we go into the messy reality of custody agreements, child support, mediation, and what happens when money and control get tangled up with parenting time. We share a personal story about changing a parenting plan, why court can turn a family into collateral damage, and the mindset shift that finally helped the bitterness stop feeling like an open wound.
If you’re navigating divorce recovery, co-parenting, or rebuilding a relationship after divorce, hit play and take what helps. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review so more people can find the show.
Cold Open And The Afterbirth
SPEAKER_03Two drinks and again was not taped before a live studio audience.
SPEAKER_00The afterbirth. What is it? Aftermath aftermath.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god. Afterbirth came in the whole build-up stuff. You know? How placenta of me. How placenta of you. You say this with placenta and love. Hey
Drinks And A Quick Catch Up
SPEAKER_03friends, it's me, Jeff. It's me, it's me, David T. Here we are with part three of our divorce series. Um which we're calling the aftermaths. It's like clever lang style. It almost is, you know.
SPEAKER_00A pity of the fool!
SPEAKER_03Got a lot of mour, since I dominated all of the last episode, and I apologize for that, to our listeners and to David. Um let's start off with what are we drinking now?
SPEAKER_00Well, I I stole your Gaelic Ale now. There you go.
SPEAKER_03Highland Gaelic Ale by the Highland Brewery Company of Asheville, Tennessee. We wholly endorse the Highland Brewery Company because every November they come out with their cold mountain ale, which is fucking awesome. But the Gaelic Ale is pretty fucking good too.
SPEAKER_00It's a solid ass beer, man.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we were talking last episode about how we go to Aubrey's to drink. When I go to Aubrey's, that's what I would get. Highland Gaelic Ale. This is a very, very tasty beer. I'm drinking cold ass beer. I love that that's its name.
SPEAKER_00It can't get any better than that.
SPEAKER_03From Derby City, Kentucky.
SPEAKER_00I like it. Kentucky's pretty ass beer. I was bitching about Ohio, but Kentucky's so pretty. I think that's why I like Ohio so or don't like Ohio so much.
SPEAKER_03Because you go driving through Kentucky and it's just amazing, and then it's truthfully, I have not done many drives through Kentucky, but the ones that I have, no, beautiful drives. Yeah, I don't want to give them any credit, but it's really that is there's that horse farm right outside Lexington that looks like a black castle or something like that. Yes. I remember like and that's like 30 years ago. 30 years ago is when I did it.
SPEAKER_00I've always wanted to go up there and do the whole bourbon trail. I still do. I I we need to talk about doing that sometime. I know. I I think that's one of those trips that I don't think I'd ever come up with.
SPEAKER_03Because everyone else Yeah, right. We lost them. Four, eight, fifteen, sixteen, twenty-three, thirty-five.
SPEAKER_00I think that would be the one that would put it over.
SPEAKER_03Oh my lord.
Starting Over After Divorce
SPEAKER_03So here we are, uh part three of our divorce series, um, where we talk about the aftermath of um what our lives have been like after divorce, what happened immediately afterwards, what has happened in the years afterwards, where we're at with our children, with our families, with our exes, uh, what current relationships we have going on, things like that. So immediately after your process was done.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, it's just the whole trying to figure out who who you are again. Yeah. Like who you I mean, you you get to start over. You can do whatever the fuck you want to do. Like you don't have to worry about anything. You can just, hey, I want to, I've been wanting to do this for a while now, then you just go out and fucking do it. Right. Um, and it's it's it was a it was a weird transition of being married and having to sit, you know, almost every decision is a a mutual one to nothing. You know, like I'm gonna stay up till fucking three o'clock and play a video game, and I don't have to worry about any type of brain damage from from doing that. You know, I mean that the freedom of it all was you know pretty intoxicating. It was it was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_03No, there's a lot to be said about that freedom because when I first got married, I did not realize that goddamn was worse than fuck. Okay. Okay. So I had just moved into my apartment and I was setting something up, and I like I jam my finger or something like that, and I go, God damn it. And it was like an old friend had just been waiting there for the right moment to emerge. And there that word was back in my lexicon, and I was like, Oh yes. The other thing immediately that I was able to do was I could I could go to bed and read until I got tired and then turn the light off. Oh yeah. Allison would always want to go to bed, or like, you know, bothering me. And Virginia and I don't do that much either, you know, like we watch TV before until we're tired. Yeah, and um, yeah, that that those were two things that immediately came back into my world.
Getting Your Freedom Back
SPEAKER_03Mine's just um still is playing golf. Yeah. Did you not do it much when you were married, or did she just give you hell over that?
SPEAKER_00It it became to where it wasn't fun. Right. And where again, my fault, I would never just like stand up with a lot of the stuff, but again, it was just like I I'd rather just not fucking play than deal with any type of brain damage. Yeah, and I'm just not gonna do it. That's how it was for me in flying.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Because I had gotten my pilot's license in 2006 and I was flying for a bit, and I was but they made such an issue out of it in my divorce. So much so that there was actually another clause that in in our in our parenting agreement that says, I will not take the kids flying with me without Allison's permission. Well, that was never gonna really be a problem, you know. I've only taken two other people with me flying, one was the woman I dated for 10 years afterward, and the other was my dad.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, but then I because of all of the scuttle butt made over the flying, I kind of lost the mojo to do it. You know, and like I and and also I was originally flying out of um McGee Tyson, and then that club folded and I joined the other club at Downtown Island home, which is an uncontrolled airport, um, which you need to have experience with those, but it's an uncontrolled airport, which means you have to do a lot of chatter on your radio, you know. Um and I was gearing up to start getting my instrument rating, and then I just and then it just like I just didn't have the time for it anymore, and then I didn't want to spend the money on it. And so it's been 14 years since I've last flown. And now I'm just feel like I'm too old to want to put myself at that kind of risk or anything. Yeah, you know, I got it. And um totally understand. Yeah, so I I um I don't do that anymore.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, the freedom part of it too, I just was it's always just been the nicety of it. Um if I could look at anything other than that, and and two, you know, the freedom of being your style of parent. Right. Um within the their, you know, your own walls. Um the the thing that it was the thing that wasn't there or the freedom part of it, you know, you would I would I would doesn't happen hardly at all anymore, but you know, I'd still get the text of you should do this, you should do that kind of thing afterward. And it's like I I don't know who you think you are. You know what? My variation of that you got to you gotta let go here.
SPEAKER_03My variation of that is you need to. Like that is always the text that's it's you need to do this. And I'm like, no, you need to shut the fuck up, is what you need to do. Or better yet, it'll be when I get the text that starts with Jeff, yeah. And I can hear her saying Oh yeah, yeah, I'll get that. Jeff, you need to do this. And I'm just like, oh, shut the fuck up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I you know, I I don't establish any type of communication unless it's a necessity. Um I just I just don't.
SPEAKER_03You know, kind of going back to our episodes about building bridges and stuff like that, and and then learning when you necess not not necessarily can't necessarily rebuild that bridge. Um I had hoped it was funny. When when Jeffrey graduated from high school and I watched him walk across that stage, it is like I could see above his head, Eberting the Eberting, and like Thanos snapped, it just turned ash and disappeared. Right. And that is true, like the child support went away. Yeah. And and you know, so well, let me kind of let me just kind of give my where things went after this. So
Setting Boundaries With Your Ex
SPEAKER_03it all finalized on on August 12th, 2010, and I was in this relationship for 10 years, and like I said in the last episode, it was troubled, always troubled, and I held on to it probably for five years longer than I should have. Um and then that ended, and I, you know, and I met Virginia and and and and so that had and so we had decided when we first started seeing each other that communication would be at the front of everything, yeah, the good, the bad, and the ugly. And um, and that has been the foundation of our relationship ever since. And it has been, I kind of begin to tell you the value of that. It makes things so much easier.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. I the relationship that I'm in now, I just like if it pops into my head, you're gonna hear it, you know, and I'm not hiding anything from you, I'm not gonna have any, you know, anything in the closet, you know, just if I'm pissed off, you're gonna know I'm pissed off. If this needs to change, then you're gonna hear that it needs to change. Like, I'm not you will not ever have to guess. And you know, if if I had been that way during my marriage, who knows? Right, exactly. You know, well, and I can't never felt, you know, with CJ with me, uh I I feel completely safe. Sure, you know, I that's the key. Yeah, like you know, I we use the term psychologically safe at work. Yeah, we always laugh about it. Yeah, like are you psychologically safe right now? But I never um you know, as I was getting older and as we were changing, like I was talking about earlier, you know, we were both changing. I I just I never expressed anything, I would just swallow the shit, which was completely unhealthy for me, for her, the marriage, you know, the kids, you know. I was like, so I I mean I basically just became a shell. And you can't do that in a relationship at all. Nope, you know, and but that's where I was until it was way too late. Right. And then by that time, but anyway, but now you know, when you're able to make that change and you're able to start from scratch again, you can make you can make decisions and learn from your mistakes. And you know, thankfully I feel like I've been able to do that, which has been very beneficial. Oh no, it helps, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, no, so I mean, and and I don't want to dog this 10-year relationship that I was in too badly. I mean, it was like it was just it had its pro there were great moments with it too. I mean, you know, we loved we loved each other. We loved each we loved each other and and we cared about each other and we were supportive of each other and until we just couldn't be anymore.
SPEAKER_00And um I mean well, my relationship now, I I I get blown away a lot. It was just like, oh, this is that's your business.
SPEAKER_03Huh? That's your business. Well we don't have to go in that much detail, David.
SPEAKER_00You know, but it was like, oh, this is how it's supposed to be. Yeah, yeah. Like this is how it when you see these people that you know you know that they've been loving each other for decades and all that fun stuff. It's just like, oh, okay, uh, this is this is nice. This is like I'm I feel like I'm in a true partnership here.
SPEAKER_03And you feel and it makes everything else in your life that you have with which you have to deal so much easier. The job, yes, you know, everything. Like, like I I find that when you go home and you have a partner that is in your corner and is supportive and whatnot, it makes the bullshit you have to deal with in the working day, it makes that all the more easy.
SPEAKER_00You know, and you're not afraid to just sit down and just say, hey, this happened at work today. Yeah, right. No, that is legit. Yes. And it and this is why it bothered me, and this is and they're genuinely listening, and you know, and not saying that those times didn't happen in my marriage, but with this relationship that I'm in now, it's it's 100% of the time.
SPEAKER_03It was funny, the other day we were down uh for lunch at the White Star Station. Have you been to that event place yet?
SPEAKER_00Never even fucking heard of it.
SPEAKER_03Okay, it is an event place on Broadway in Marival, uh a few doors down from Bella. Right, like near the Capitol Theater. Okay. It is this event. I didn't know it existed too. Well, this is where the Reader's Choice Awards uh banquet was being held where people got their got a trophy and announced.
SPEAKER_00Is it behind Raven? Next door to Raven.
SPEAKER_03Next door to the parking garage. Okay, the big parking garage over there by Raven.
SPEAKER_00How do you get into it?
SPEAKER_03Like on the back side of it? Get in the front door.
SPEAKER_00No, is the front door like on Broadway. Oh, wow. Okay.
SPEAKER_03So we're there, and like, so it's Virginia and me, and then Gresha and her boyfriend, Andrew. And um, I guess at some point, Virginia said to Gresha, she said, you know, I want you to know that I'm so glad that Jeff has you because he's a lot, isn't he? And she said, and you know, she goes, I appreciate everything you can do to help manage him a bit. And it's kind of nice though when you when there are people looking out for you like that. And that that is very that that that's just the good thing. It's just you know, whereas in other situations with fucking man, you know, fucking just acting like he's gotta swing his dick everywhere, you know. And um, yeah, no, not that here. So that and that's that's nice, you know. And uh um but you know, it it it took me 10 years to get there. Right. And um, you know, and and uh you know, kind of moving away from that relationship, you know, into parenting. I mean,
Healthy Parenting After The Split
SPEAKER_03it was my goal with my children was to build a solid foundation of a relationship with each of them that exists to this day, yeah. Where it is there's no judgment, there's no you can talk to me about anything. And they have they have laid shit on me that I know they have not laid on their mother.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've always told Dylan and and and Red now, it's like all the times in your life that I don't ever want you to be like, oh god, dad's gonna kill me. No, it needs to be oh god, I need to call dad. Right. And right.
SPEAKER_03So for me, it is always let's fix the problem first. Yeah, then we'll talk about it later. Right. The judgment will come later. Let's fix the problem now.
SPEAKER_00How are we gonna and yeah, how are we gonna learn from it is later, but right now we need to we need to finish coloring the page. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It um like you know, I I said in the last episode, I really kind of hope that at this point, with you know, especially our son graduating from college at the end of this month, that that my ex-wife and I would have been re-able to reach kind of a peace, uh peaceable relationship where we could talk about the kids and what needs to happen. You know, I mean, we talked about Juliana still owes me a course at UCLA. Well, it would be great if I had some support from that household, you know, and that would make this it's not just me beating the drum on this, you know, and and that's just what I want. And she just can't seem to do that for me. And and I don't know, I you know, to to so much so that it's like, well, it you know, are you saying, well, she wasted this much money in tuition as a result of it, so fuck you, pal. Well, you didn't really. I mean, it's not money that I I had it saved a long time ago. I mean, it was whatever happens with it, you know, whatever happens, happens. I was never gonna spend it for myself, right? You know, so I didn't lose anything here. Um, but you know, so things like that. I I I kind of wish our relationship now she got married and to to to the other attorney, and and he is he's great. I mean, I I think I have nothing but great things, nice things to say about him. If my children are going to have another man in their life, he he he passes muster by me.
SPEAKER_00That was always my concern. It's like, oh gosh, you know, like competing. Well, not the competing part of it, it's just like, well, what what's gonna be brought in? You know, which you know, you don't have a say-so on it, yeah. It's just like, man, you know, oh geez, but you know, I everything's been cordial, everything's been fine. I you know, I don't we are Is she remarried? Yes, okay, but it I mean it is what it is right now, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, you know, we we've had major events, we've had a you know, my mom passed, we've had a graduation. I know that major life events that happen with the kids, you know, from here until eternity, you know, she's gonna be there. Yeah, and we're cordial enough. Um, you know, am I ever gonna like call her up and be like, hey girl? Right, right. Yeah, you know, like no, like none of that shit's gonna happen, you know. But if if there is a now it's just strictly the hurt, the bitterness, the man we we failed, you know, right the hurt of that. Yeah, you know, no one wants that. You know, you don't you don't get married with the intention to getting divorced, right? You you do truly feel like it's gonna be forever. Right. But when it's not, you know, it hurts. Yes. And there were times when it was fresh, you know, whether going to a basketball game or whatever, you know, you you could cut that kind of tension with a knife a little bit. Yeah, you don't want to be in the same room with them, you know. It whether you relive the hurt or whatever. But we've gotten all past that now. I mean, hell, I've been I've been divorced for damn near getting close to almost as long as we were married.
SPEAKER_03So like Yeah, I I actually that piece is done. I let me think. Uh see, I I I don't know whether to look at it as the day that I moved out as when it ended or the day it was final that it was ended. I gotcha. Um we have already gone past the number from the day I moved out. Yeah. So that's that's an interesting feeling. And so much so that you know, in sometimes like if my kids are having a problem with their mother, I don't I I tell them, I don't know what to tell you. I said, This is I don't know your mother anymore. I've you know, I've been away from her for 18 years, I don't know her. I have said the exact same thing. Yeah, just like you know, I can't help I can't help you here.
SPEAKER_00I can kind of guide you, you know, I can listen to what your situation is, but you're gonna have to be the one to have that conversation or you know, it that shit's out of my hands. Like, um, but you know, I I my kids have also been pretty good about just those different things to where they're not gonna I don't know. My kids have just been really good. I mean they were 11 and 7 when that when that happened. So they you know they they had they remember a life with the the core unit.
SPEAKER_03Is their relationship with their mother good?
SPEAKER_00I I would say so. Okay, yeah, I don't think it's that's good. Yeah, I don't think it's bad. You know, it's not like it's not like they're going over there and dreading it or or what have you. I mean I like to think, well, I you know, who knows? But you know, as far as you know, as far as what I know and what I see, there's no issues. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, I mean it's I hate it for them.
SPEAKER_00I do I do like what they're like I never had to experience it, you know, fucking taking a whole shit one weekend and but I think you need to look at it in terms of that they see you and CJ.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. They see her and her husband, and they get to see their parents in loving, nurturing relationships. And and it's the same. They like my kids like seeing Allison and her husband and Virginia and me, you know, in loving, nurturing relationships. And that and so that gives them some found. I mean, especially, you know, my oldest is in a I I think it's a fairly serious relationship. I mean, they've been together for quite some time and they seem to make Plans about the future together, and you know, it it um you know I I hope that they can take some lessons from this. But also, you know, like when I when I got together with Virginia, I, you know, said to myself, and apologies to our listeners who can hear the pug barking in the background, fucking asshole. I don't think they can hear it. I tell you what. No, that trust me, it will come. I will I will hear it when I'm editing this later. Anyway, um no, that that they see us in loving and nurturing relationships, and and and so my daughter then has a foundation on that which with which to build a relationship for the future. Yeah, you know, I don't know. I mean, Juliana's not ever really had a serious relationship. Jeffrey has it's been in college that he has really kind of found his way with soiled the royal oats. He has sowed the royal oats, so to speak. But I'm gonna tell you, he and I I'm really impressed with the way he handles relationships. He was telling me how there's a uh a woman he's seeing now, and she is currently in Australia, uh, but then she'll be coming back and then going to England. They're trying to figure out how to map that going forward. But the other day, he talked with his ex-girlfriend on the phone for three hours. It was kind of just wrapped up loose ends and stuff like that, and end on a good note. The closure. Closure conversations and end on a good note, and she's down with somebody. And but this current girl he's dating had maybe an issue with the fact it was a three-hour-long conversation. I can see that. But he was very communicative. I said, I told him I'm impressed with how communicative you are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I said, that is good. Trust me, you want to hold on to that. I said, because that is where your mother and I just failed, you know, and had we'd been better communicators, who knows where this would have gone. Um, but like I said a little bit ago, that that Virginia and I just made that commitment to each other right out of the gate that we're gonna be great communicators. Yep.
Owning Mistakes And Building Awareness
SPEAKER_03But I've also been very open with the communication with my children. I mean, there was a day with my daughters at least, that I, you know, had to answer for some things that I had done prior to their mother and I getting divorced. And I knew that one day I would have to stand tall before the man before that. And and I just, you know, I I don't want to make excuses, I don't want to gaslight over this. Yeah. What I did say was I always hope I will hope for you that you are never in a relationship where you feel so undervalued or devalued that you feel the need to step outside your relationship.
SPEAKER_00You know, yeah, one way or in the other, whether, you know, whatever you did. But ultimately, when you're not happy, you lash out in some sort of exactly, yes. I don't that that is the best definition of it, yes. Crack or right, right? No, some form of abuse. You're going to lash out. Yes. You're going to try to find some sort of something to fill the void that you're not getting. Right. Uh, and that's human nature with damn near anything, whether it's your job, whether it's a relationship, you know, whatever. So, you know, maintaining that or or having the acknowledgement that, like, man, if I don't do something now, I'm gonna lash out. And it's not gonna be pretty for fucking anyone. Right. You need to be able to have that self-awareness. Yeah, and you need to be able to act on that self-awareness before it's too late.
SPEAKER_03You know, I and to go to go with all of that, you know, and and this kind of ties into our previous episodes on managing people, is that the communication is at the end of the day, the communication is always the key. Yeah, like if you can to keep the lines open, like so that there's no confusion, no misinterpretation of what your intent are.
SPEAKER_00And the worst thing that you can fucking do is like hold back due to someone's feelings. Yes. You're like, man, I really want to tell them this, but it's gonna hurt their feelings and not have that tough conversation.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and and for me at the office, not with five and a half years remaining. No way, you know. I mean, I'm sorry I'm not holding back. I mean, there's where I'm trying to get, and and you're either with me or get the fuck out of my practice, you know, and but but you know, it's you know, it's nice. Like when I used to have like if I had an issue with a dentist down in Mariville. Merville, Merville, that um Maryville that I can't stand that fucking sign. Which one?
SPEAKER_00The all the their like new slogans like there's it's more to Maryville, like it's the more the Maryville, like they make him try and de save Mary, and it's like, no, dude, it's Merville. It's Merville. No, yeah. Oh, the humanity in that city is crazy. I know. Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_03It's a crazy city, but um no, it's um I you know I hope I hope that well, talking about Mervel, uh that some of my colleagues get to see a different version of me and whatnot, that I'm just in a happier space and whatnot. Um, you know, I mean it goes back to the phone. It's made it been easier for me to relate with my patients too, you know, uh be a little more uh present, intentional, um, communicative with the patients, and just not look, look, there's some bitter pills we have to swallow in these conversations we have with people. And and you know, you just I mean you just gotta dive right in, yeah, you know, and and say, fuck, we're we're gonna have this talk. And um and and that helped. It just but but when you just commit to it, it's just easier, you know. But you also, you know, for us, it's but uh you know, a lot of I I had off and on until the last until recently, I'd done therapy and whatnot.
Therapy And Real Communication Skills
SPEAKER_03I just don't think my therapist helped help me. My first ones that I had while I was going through the divorce, I had a woman down in Varaville I'd go see, and then I went up to see a guy in Knoxville. And the other those, it just kind of felt like I was just rehab. Oh, this is what I did this week. And like, yeah, I didn't get it. I'm like, why don't you fucking like say, okay, dude, let's stop and investigate that a little bit. Ask me some questions. Yeah, I my therapist does that now, and so and it's great.
SPEAKER_00And and and and so that's I have never left a counseling session where it's like, well, that was very beneficial. Like a fucking never. Well, that's a whole other thing.
SPEAKER_03You know, Virginia and I had done we did marital counseling once, and I felt it was more her, just when she, you know when when Allison and I were splitting up, we talked about counseling, and I said, Okay, but I don't want this to be we're gonna go through 19 counselors, and they all say, Well, you know, Allison, you brought something to this as well, and you hold out till you find the 20th counselor that says, No, Jeff, it was all you, you're to blame. Bad Jeff, bad Jeff, you know. Rolled up newspapers, exactly, you know, put my nose in it, you know, the whole nine yards. And and and so and and but but Allison's response to that was well, don't act like I pushed you into this. Oh god. Well, no, you didn't. I mean, I I jumped into this with both feet, and but that is the difference between me and my ex-wife is that I am I am introspective about the things that I've done. I told my therapist this when I first met him, I said, Look, you're not gonna have to like do a lot of pushing and shoving to get me to move in the right direction. Yeah, I already know what my problems are, right? You know, but like my my ex-wife, no, no, and would never admit that she's to blame. And and she gets that from both of her parents. You know, they just would never admit that they're to blame. And um because it'd be funny, there would be times when we were still married, they'd be like, you know, how'd you know, ending up in Tennessee? Oh, yeah, the campaign people went on. And like my ex-mother-in-law was so demonstrative about like just kind of looking around the room, like, what, what me? I don't know what you're talking about. I have no idea. I had no role in this. Like, oh my god, you poisoned my you pose, you poisoned my marriage. Own it. So with her, honestly, I have had nice conversations with her. Probably the most pleasant conversations I've had with her since we we split up. I mean, we say hi and bye. We talked at Jacqueline's white coat ceremony. I ask how she's especially now that, you know, I mean Mike's father-in-law passed away. Yeah. Um, and um, and and we do have a listener from Loudoun uh on this, and that I wonder if sometimes that's her. So, Alice, if you're listening to this, finally we got around to talking about you. Alice. I will I guess I guess we'll I guess we'll talk about this in Scotland in a few weeks.
SPEAKER_00You're gonna get a text.
SPEAKER_03I you know what, seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody sends me a text over this and says, I can't believe you talked about all this shit. Well, you know, I'm probably gonna get one too.
SPEAKER_00But uh the the two things that in the afterbirth for me though is been one being in a relationship, and this relationship's now over seven years, which wow. Wow, yeah, that's right flowing.
SPEAKER_03Time takes on such a weird construct.
SPEAKER_00But so seven years, but I do not hesitate to talk about fears, which I'd never have done before. You know, like again, that psychologically safe place, but but then two, also getting and receiving and sharing in sorries, like legitimate, like hey man, I fucked up, or hey, last you know, that was probably I shouldn't have said that, or I shouldn't have done this, or this happened this that way, or whatever. Right. You know, that mutual respect, uh I you know, not saying it didn't happen, but uh it's more more prevalent now. So those are those two things that as I'm getting older and changing, um just like wow, okay, this is again this is the way it should be. Like I'm not going to not going to bed going, I went, I wish I'd have done this, or I wish I'd have said this, or that, or whatever. Like I have no no regrets.
SPEAKER_03So do you feel that you compete at all with her for like your children's attention, affection, time, whatever?
SPEAKER_00Do you still feel like you're doing that, or is that no, no, could and but that's just due to the fact of we we never even attempted to do that. Like it like your whole little episode two journey. I I never had to experience that part of it. Yeah. To where I mean I was, you know.
SPEAKER_03You guys were you you did it, you agreed, and and moved on. It's and that's what I wish most people could like when the marriage is over, it's over. Yep. Stop fighting to make something that's dead still be alive because then it's a zombie.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_03You know, I mean, and and that's and bless Allison. She wanted, she she wanted to do what she could to keep our marriage alive, but she didn't want to take ownership of what she brought to the table in this. But I think it's great that you guys, you know, don't have any of those issues. We do, I mean, it's still kind of a competition a little bit.
SPEAKER_00So I I mean, I have no idea if you know we said we weren't ever gonna say anything negative about each other to the kids, and I I truly kind of feel like we've done that. Um so I mean, my my relationship with my kids are just phenomenal. Well, that's the key. Yeah. You know, this being married and and having an ex-wife is just a scar now. It's not uh that's a good description. It's not a it's not an open wound anymore. It's scarred. I can show it to you. Sure. I can tell you, you know what I mean? Like I can tell you all about it if you really want to know about it. But no one's walking up to me anymore and being like, dude, you're fucking bleeding.
The 2016 Custody Change Fight
SPEAKER_03We have had a little bit of a different journey in the aftermath because and I have to credit my father to a lot of this because we all, my mother, my father, and I, we all worked very hard to make sure the children they're feel that they could express their feelings and that they could be heard. And so, what my father used to do with each of my children when we could go down to visit, he would take them out to breakfast in the morning and just talk about things and things that concerned them and pointed questions. Now, I'm not gonna say that there wasn't a part of that that was manipulative because he was working for me.
SPEAKER_00Right. That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_03Pointed questions, yes, and and a lot of this led up to what I call the great mutiny of 2016. And because the because when we got the ruling, I sat down with the girls shortly afterwards and said, Here's how it's gonna be. Both the girls started crying, and Juliana said, We're going to change this. So that's what I hold on to was at the time the articulations of a nine-year-old saying Fuck this. Fuck this. Fuck this, fuck the man, you know, fuck the man, you know, fuck the police, fuck the police, you know. And um they um so what my father would do is he would just talk about, you know, do you think it's fair, yada yada yada, so on and so forth, so on and so forth. And the thing is we wanted to wait until Jeffrey was twelve, until we went down this road. Because the court, you know, everything says that you know, once they're over the age of twelve, the courts will listen to what the kids want more than they want what the parents want. So we had a big sit-down at my parents' house, and it was my mom, my dad, the three kids. I think Jen was there. Um that's the tenure relationship. Um now that I've doxxed her. Apologies, Jen. Um, and um he he dad kind of led the conversation on all this. This is what we're looking at doing. And now that you're of the age to make a decision on this, but here's the deal. Once we go down this road, there's no turning back. Yeah. And you're gonna get shit from your mother, and and you you need to stay. Be prepared for the consequence. Stay the course on all of this. Yeah. And it was really interesting. Like Jackson's like, nope, I'm in 100%. And Juliana was like, no, I'm I'm I'm good. We're in. And Jeffrey just like had this smile, he just kind of waved us, he goes, He goes, Yeah, I'm in. I totally like, and so then we started this process. And I had brought on a new attorney at this point, and um we filed to change the parenting plan, and that kind of took her off guard. And then the kids sat down and had a talk with her about what they wanted, and their stepfather um gave them a little shit over that. The only time I've been upset with him is that he gave them some shit over that. And um, but they well, if he didn't, he probably would have gotten it before. Yeah, but again, you kind of wish cooler heads would have talked to her and said, Right, look. Yeah, listen to what's being said here. What's being said here, you know. I don't believe it was about time. I believe this was all about money because she knew that if this changed, like there would be less money coming to her. And she just wanted to gouge me for as much as she could. She, I mean, literally wanted to clean me out and failed at doing that. And she has to live with that, you know, that that didn't happen. And probably gonna be in a better financial state than I was if I had stayed with her, you know. And um, so finally what happened was uh again, how you have dates at so we would a lot of back and forth and so on and so on. And she had gotten a different attorney too because Caesar had fired her, and it was very clear that both attorneys were trying to go on the we do not want this to go to trial, yeah. And um and I think they had taken it to court at one point to get on the dates, and like John Weaver was the the the judge was like he heard, he goes everting. He goes, Are you talking about the orthodonist? And they're like, Yeah, he goes, What the hell are they fighting about now? And so my attorney took the position of, okay, we want to negotiate this out of court as possible, because this could go badly for us. Right. And um so we sat down December 6, 2016, in the we did mediation, and so what we ended up with was we they were willing to bring it to eight and six and then fifty-fifty in the summer. He goes, Jeff, you'll have you'll have the kids for 46% of the time. He said, I said, I'm good, that's great. And so because she blinked and she doesn't negotiate, and she blinked, and that was for me psychologically a huge moment. Right. So then the big fight after that came over, well, the child support needs to be adjusted. So during that time also, Virginia and I were, you know, when this kept going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Nobody was doing anything about it. And then finally we got to this point where Virginia and I had gotten engaged and we were gonna get married, and you know, okay, we did a prenup on this and everything. My the attorney that I was using at the time went insane with what he wanted for the prenup. I'm like, oh, oh, okay, I'm not looking for a prenup that's combative here, right? You know, yeah. I mean, but there's shit that I've got here that like the practice, the building, you know, the my inheritance, these these are my things, you know. Yeah. And and um, you know, I wasn't saying everything, this house and every you know, it's all mine, fuck you. You know, I wasn't gonna do that, but but um so um so in the process that we got rid of him, we brought on a new attorney, and then I brought him in to deal with the child support negotiations. Well, what my the the attorney who was doing the fuck you prenup, he he had set it up that I got you know, now I'm the answer. We never had child the the child support services um office involved in our payments. It would just be I wrote her a check, put it in her mailbox, there you go.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh funny story that goes with that. So I would just leave it in a mailbox and I would text her or send her an email that I left her the check. So one time I leave it in her um mailbox and I voice text, I said, the check is in your mailbox. And I before I hit send, I looked down and it said, the check is in your ass. I'm like, okay, I don't know how Siri was reading my mind on that, but it's truly one of the funniest, almost bad texts sent. Why you need to read all texts before voice text before sending them. Anyway, so um, but yeah, so this guy, this guy that we used, uh, you know, he he then came up with a good thing, and then and then it was just paperwork with CSS. Um, you know, this is the day he walks across the stage, please shut down, you know, please shut down all requests for pay. And what the good thing about going through CSS is that no longer did I have to deal with her and let's just be like, I didn't get my check, but then you need to take out with CSS because I wrote them a check. Because if I was a day late, trust me, I heard about it from CSS. I bet. You know, yeah. And um if I was a day late with her, trust me, I heard about it. So, but like when she got married to her husband, um, the the alimony all went away. She was pissed off about that. And I'm just this is where she's just not living in the real world, like she's an attorney, and you act like the laws don't apply to you. Yeah, you know, yeah, that's jacked. Kind of like some of these MAGA motherfuckers, and um so um, but uh kind of like Pam Bondi. And um so anyway, but but so the kids staged a coup and she blinked. I think I think the attorneys finally got to her and said, You are going to lose it. If you don't lose in court, you're gonna lose with your kids. Yeah. Either way, like there's drag this out. There's no way you are going to win in this. Do not drag this out. You know, yeah, yeah. And so, but that changed everything for me. And then, and then, like I said, when he walked across that stage, it was Thanos and all that turned to ash, and it was done. And and so here's here's where we are. So we'll
Money Battles And Court Frustrations
SPEAKER_03have this big meetup in End and Butter, I like Scotland on July 1st for dinner, and it'll be, you know, she and her husband will be there, her mother will be there, her brother will be there, which whatever. And um, and his wife and and uh Jeffrey's stepsister.
SPEAKER_00Uh it's uh I guess the point of it too, though, is this shall pass. Yes, this will go pass. You go through divorce sucks. It's painful, it's it generates emotions that you never even thought that you had. Um it uh forces you to reflect, it forces you to understand that you know you did lose. I mean you lost.
SPEAKER_03No, I no, you did. I yes you lost.
SPEAKER_00Yes. I lost in a huge way. Yeah. And it's and it's painful and no one no one really wins from it, but you it does pass, and you do you are able to pick yourself up, hopefully. You know, if you're out there and you can't pick yourself up, reach for some help. But like you can you can do it. And you you do make it to the other side.
SPEAKER_03My feelings about my ex have run the full spectrum. I mean, it it was in the beginning, like uh she would make me so angry on a phone call that all I could see was red, and all I could do was envision me holding a baseball bat in her head. That I mean, and I'll just admit that, you know. And it used to be the joke I used to say is, yeah, well, now the weekly You were the bear Jew. Yeah. Where where I used to, you know, have the weekly prayer that she would die in a fiery car accident. Yeah, that m that moved down to monthly, you know. Now it doesn't exist anymore, you know. Way to grow. You know, it is, it's all about growth. But that's truly how I felt. I mean, she just I mean, she you definitely go through the gamut. I keep I keep going back to it, did not have to be this bad. And if anybody out there listening can like, if you can just make it so that it is not there's no need for any divorce to be this awful. No, you know, no, and when I just read about the ones like that are just absolute murder, or you read the ones where particularly with celebrities, that they have that there are these well, like I think about uh Brandon Fraser, for example, and you know, he went through this divorce, and then be it's all based on at one time he was a star, and so the expectation is that he has this much money, but you don't know what's gonna change, right? And and you know, he's still expected to pay what is equivalent to about seven, eight times in child support what I was paying my ex-wife, you know, and I'm just like I look, I get about your kids are accustomed to the lifestyle, but sometimes you need to teach the kids life changes, man. Like, okay, so you'll have this until you turn 18 or graduate from high school, whichever comes first, but you just don't guarantee you're gonna go out into the world, and that's the kind of lifestyle you're going to have, right? You know, yeah. I'm not saying you need to live in a shack, you know, or in the projects or anything like that, you know, but but you know, I think they're just so for me it was this whole well, I mean that uh, you know, we had made a petition that about the tuition that it wasn't right that I was expected to pay for everything. And the court's mindset mindset was, well, no, this is what the kids are used to. And I'm like, I could probably put them in a real nice public school, yeah, you know, and we'd be just as good, you know, and they just didn't see it. It comes down to expectations. The other big thing that I had a problem in when they were calculating a there was a lot of prognostication over what my net worth would be when I retired. And I'm like, how do we admit this kind of guesswork? This is not fact, this is guesswork.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so sometimes if you if you Google my case, you'll see it show up in some LexisNexis articles about because one of the things it did say was that it talked about goodwill in the value of a practice. And they my case has been cited extensively in cases throughout the state. So what I apologize to all dentists, all healthcare professionals, all physicians that have had to deal with that who own private practices. That was not my uh that's not my fault. And when you read it though, like, and I have wanted to comment, I've been waiting to comment on this till the time was right. Yeah, where it's kind of out of harm's way that nobody could really fuck me up for saying anything, but just like, first of all, the expert that my ex-wife and her team brought in was a moron, and it was all prognostication. Well, we assume this is what he'll be worth at this age versus what she'll be worth at this age. And I'm like, you're not like my practice almost went through a near bankruptcy shortly after my divorce. Yeah. What how do we account for that? Yeah, you know, it's a load of shit. I don't think you should be allowed to do that. Um and I do blame the judge for a lot of for some of this, in that I feel he could have been a little more discerning and and used a little more wisdom in this. So it turns out that years afterwards he had this weird mishap accident where he snapped both quad tendons and and it gimped him a little bit like that. And I, you know, the shitty side of me was like, karma. I hate admitting that. I really do. I may edit that out. Um, I have this fantasy about writing him a letter to as I'm retiring and we're gonna leave the area, you know, and just say, well, okay, so you didn't destroy me as much as you guys thought you were going to. You know, I mean less, yeah, yeah, lesson learned. Right. Okay, and I get where your head was probably at with regards to me. I didn't give you a lot to work with. Um, but I just I find it disappointing that you bought a lot of their bullshit, you know. So I you know, again, I don't hold any hope that my ex-wife and I are gonna have any kind of peaceful rapprochement or anything like that. Oh, yeah. I don't I don't see that happening at all. Yeah, I I wish it would, but I can't make that happen.
SPEAKER_00No, you know there there might have been some preconceived notions of like, you know, coming over to the house and having one party for this, that, or the other. And well, we've done that.
SPEAKER_03We we have done that for Jeffree's graduation, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, um, anyway, I yeah. I'm just happy. I've moved on. Yeah. It's done. That's the key. The the afterbirth is good. Right? The afterbirth. You fuck.
SPEAKER_03Well, you do, you you're born again. You are, you are born again. It really is.
SPEAKER_00It it's uh it's you know, and it's again like the first thing that I bought somehow, some way, I was in fucking Target, you know, picking up the man, you know, just different shit. And I look over, there's a damn candle. It says Second Life. I was like, well, I'm buying that motherfucker. That was the best smelling candle I ever fucking burned. That's great. Yeah, never seen it since. But I mean, it was just one of those things. But yeah, I I'm glad that we're through it again. It's the it's pain, it's anguish, it's fear, it's excitement, it's you know, every emotion that you can possibly have as a human being, you haven't went through a divorce. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03No, it is, it's a rough gig. Yeah. And and you know, again, my advice to anyone who goes through it is don't make it contentious, don't go to court if you can avoid it. The only people that win are the attorneys. Oh, yeah. And um, and you don't want a judge making a decision that the two of that cooler heads could have, you know, prevailed in this and and and come up with a decision that was more amenable to to what was the situation was presented itself. I get it. There's hurt, you want to lash out. I mean, I keep you know what I've also said to a lot of people is that if my ex-wife never felt like she got her pound of flesh out of me, look at it this way. You forced me to continue living here in a state that I don't want to live in. There it is. I mean, there it is. So it was you you kept me here until he graduated from high school, till Jeffrey graduated from high school. And now I'm in this far, there's it'd be silly for me to pull up and leave now, so I may as well just ride this out to the end. If it all goes to the goes according to plan, it'll be 30 years that I have lived here. Yeah. And okay, so like how do you not see that as a win? Yeah that you forced me to live someplace that I wasn't keen on living in in the first place, you know. Valid point. Yeah, so that there, take that for what it's worth. Um, and so as as a result, I'm trying to build up for a great act three. So I don't doubt that you will.
SPEAKER_00What else do we have to share about D I V O R C E? I think that's it, man. Truly. Um yeah, I think it's just now that we've gotten this through our little podcast, we can go onwards and upwards.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, great. You know what that means. Our next episode is the Black Widow episode.
SPEAKER_00Like nobody cared about that. Yeah, that was pretty stupid. It was pretty stupid. There was no reason to have that movie whatsoever, other than giving us Red Guardian. No, that was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Okay. That's about it. Good deal. All right, man. You know, the same thing is we say um it is it is important to be decent to each other, and that includes our current spouses, our former spouses.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Our wives, our ones that the wives are in between.
SPEAKER_03It's good to be good to the wives, the girlfriends, both. Um you know, whatever it is you got going on. That's right. But
Closing Thoughts And Leave A Review
SPEAKER_03just, hey, we love you guys. Love you too. Thank you so much for listening. And leave a review for us on on the so that we show that we are a podcast of merit. And why do you laugh when I say that?
SPEAKER_00It's funny to me.
SPEAKER_03We still gotta get that outtakes episode out of it. It's coming soon. All right.
SPEAKER_00Cheers.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
