Reclaim Agency with Doula Erica Paulson

In today's episode of Health Youniversity, Dr. Susan Fox sits down with Erica Paulson — doula, certified clinical hypnotherapist, prenatal bonding specialist, and founder of Nurture — for a conversation that goes far beyond what most people think birth support looks like.

Erica is a hypno-birthing educator, a childbirth advocate, and — perhaps less expectedly — an award-winning poet. Today, she blends the science and the soul of birth as one experience. 

This episode is about what happens when birth is treated as a nervous system experience, not just a medical one. What changes when a woman walks into labor prepared — clinically, emotionally, and somatically.

Your nervous system doesn't distinguish between a physical threat and an emotional one — and that impacts how labor unfolds.  Erica calls hypnobirthing a  toolkit you'll use for the rest of your life.  She shares why prenatal bonding matters as much as anything on your birth prep list.  She teaches how to practice advocacy in the birthing room, and why your nurses are already hoping you'll ask more questions.  She explains that doulas also support partners and what that looks like in the room.  And she poetically shares that mother and baby bonding begins long before first latch..

This episode is for you if you're pregnant and want to feel genuinely prepared, if you've had a birth experience that left you feeling unmet, if  you're supporting someone who's pregnant and want to understand how to show up for her, if you experienced infertility before conceiving and find it hard to fully settle into pregnancy..

💻 About Susan Fox: https://www.healthyouniversity.co/about

Take your 5-Element Fertility Quiz:  http://yourfertilityquiz.com/

Detox to De-Stress:  View the FREE Masterclass on the importance of detoxification to prepare for a healthy pregnancy:  https://susanfox1.easywebinar.live/gentle-detox

Learn about our program entitled Your Fertile Health: https://www.healthyouniversity.co/programs

Schedule a Fertile Health Assessment: https://www.healthyouniversity.co/your-fertile-health-call

Let us journey with you as you navigate your fertile health. Connect with me:

🎧 iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/health-youniversity-with-dr-susan-fox/id1592763186 

🔊 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/08U9QJf...

📸 Instagram: @dr.susan.fox

💗 Facebook: ...

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Hello and welcome to today's episode of Health University, where we talk all things fertility, pregnancy and postpartum, and perimetopause, the walk of life for a female body and a female person. And today we're going to cover something that we haven't really covered before. It is it is talking about the importance of combining birthing and postpartum care so that a person goes from overwhelmed to owning her birth experience with emotional safety and advocacy. And we are delighted to have Erica Paulton here to talk with us about it. So as the founder of Nurture, Erica brings nearly two decades of hands-on experience as a doula, a trainer, and a childbirth educator. She has personally supported over 1,000 families. That's amazing, combining individualized care that honors the science and the soul of birth. Beautiful. She's a certified doula, a certified clinical hypnotherapist, and a prenatal bonding specialist. Erica also published a book on poetry. She's an author, and it was it was named the Ohio Poet of the Year in 2022 for her book of poetry, Hunger. So welcome, welcome, Erica. It's a delight to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

My pleasure. So we know that birthing and postpartum can be overwhelming, and we know that people get their information sort of piecemeal from one specialist or another, or through an AI search. And they're still left somewhat to their own devices, even when they've got some of the support. So tell us how you found how you came to have these blended skills and how you find them to be unique and different in supporting women.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Well, I started as a mother who was on that search myself. And I found myself looking and not knowing where to find what was the secret handshake? How do I get the information that I need? I knew that I was a healthy person. I was anticipating a healthy delivery. I was big time educating myself, preparing myself for my birth. I took classes, I read everything I could get my hands on, which I think a lot of women do. Yes. We're very interested in what's happening to our bodies. And we become mother bear the moment we're pregnant, I think, or even before when we start to even think about having a child, something changes in us where we're not just considering our experience, but the experience and the outcome for our child as well. Um, and I didn't have the experience that I was hoping for. I think I found myself shuffled along through a hospital system that didn't really feel like it did individualize my care. It felt kind of one size fits all and it didn't fit me. And I didn't have the birth experience that I was hoping at that time. And, you know, that was over 20 years ago, and there weren't as many doulas and options as available as they are now. Um, but I was very fortunate to get connected with the doula for my second um birth and pregnancy. I had a completely different experience, and that was really what lit the fire in me to become a doula myself. That's where I started as a doula, supporting women in the birthing space. Um, and it it just sort of like ignited this fire in my heart that I wanted to be part of that support and that change that I really do believe should be integrated into care. It shouldn't be unique, it should be something that everybody is able to have access to and receive. So started as a doula. Um, what started and I I always say my children are my greatest sources of inspiration still in my life. They are. I have four children of my own. I have three stepchildren, so seven children.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Wow, you have a brood.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

I have a big family, and they are my inspiration. They're really why we're here and thinking also about my daughters now and my uh grandchildren eventually, and and what their experience is going to be like as women and um people who are growing families and building families. And so I'm really fortunate and grateful to still have the same passion, probably even more so now as I continue to evolve into the space that we are here today.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

That's beautiful. And yes, I mean a hospital birth is is common, right? It's my it's how most uh babies are born, and the system itself is not designed to be um to be natural. It's I mean, a hospital is not a natural experience. I mean, thank goodness we have them. You mentioned, which I I found this to be very interesting that pregnancy and birth are nervous system experiences, not just medical experiences. I would love to have you elaborate on that because I think what you were what you were describing in that first experience was just that, that we that you were having a medical experience, but your nervous system wasn't being attended to. Am I correct?

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Absolutely. Yeah, let's I think like to your point, we need hospitals. We need, I mean, most of the work that we do as doulas are in the hospital space. So it's not that hospitals can't provide a comfortable, natural environment to give birth, but they really aren't set up that way. Um, and oftentimes when women are going to the hospital to have a baby, it could be their first time being in hospital at all to receive care. Certainly for most women, it's the first time they're a healthy person going to the hospital. Most time when we're going to the hospital, we're there because we are in need of some kind of care. And hospitals are set up to respond to those needs, but they're really not as much able to provide for the emotional and other needs that a birthing person has. And we're a whole entire person giving birth, you know, we're not just a uterus and a baby that's coming out of it. So hospitals are very outcome driven, but there's so much more to that birth experience and that outcome. And your body, your nervous system doesn't differentiate between a physical threat and an emotional threat. And so in a hospital space, even if you're not physically threatened, nothing, no one is doing anything bad to you because of the very nature of being in the hospital in the first place. You know, typically it's somewhere where people go and they're sick and need of care, people can really shut down internally. And we know on a physical level that changes the hormonal structure of labor. So instead of oxytocin, which is a hormone of love and bonding and attachment and something that we have when we feel safe and good, you might be releasing adrenaline, which combats that oxytocin, which can cause your labor to slow down. So actually, how you're feeling isn't just something that you're dreaming up in your head. It actually really impacts your body, your body response. And this is especially true for women who are in labor and giving birth.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

And I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more that that, that that, that, that veil, if you will, when a woman is about to give birth, well, we're we're not separate, right? Our emotions are part of our body and in there in communicating with hormones and hormones communicating with our emotions and vice versa. But that moment when we are preparing to give birth, it is very, the veil is very thin. And that and that um and that insecurity can actually feel quite terrifying because because there's so much at stake. So, what do you do in preparation for that moment uh for for your families, for your for the women who are going to give birth? And what would you advise women listening or people listening who can share with women who that may be going into delivery, hopefully, you know, hopefully in their lifetime, that they would want to take into consideration?

SPEAKER_01 9:03

That's a really great question. Yeah. And something that I feel like I do talk about a lot with the birthing people that I'm working with. And number one is just recognizing that you are a whole person, that you are, and your brain is part of your body. So we should stop thinking about how you're feeling is such a separate thing from what you're experiencing, that the experience matters and that how you feel inside the body that's receiving care manifests itself in the way that the body responds to the care. So thinking about your birth, preparing for your birth, classes are really important. So it's important to demystify that experience. You said earlier, there's so many unknowns when it comes to having a baby. And I think women know that. We we signed up for that. We know we don't exactly know how the labor journey is going to unfold, but there are a lot of unknowns that we can eliminate to help her feel more acclimated to the space that she's going to be giving birth in, to know her care, the people involved who are there to support her, and then also bringing the baby into the picture, remembering that you're giving birth to this incredible human being. You're a creator. When you're a pregnant woman, it is a very unique experience in life because we're creating life inside our bodies without having to think about it. Somehow we're able to create these human beings inside of our body and then give birth to them. The body is a masterpiece. It's a magical.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Yeah, it's it is miraculous.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah, it's like to just embrace that and um think about both sides, both the medical side and the data that we need to understand and digest, but also the dreaming of families and babies and bringing the baby into the world and onto your chest and how are you feeling? Um, and that might open the door to other conversations too with yourself or your providers.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

I love that. You know, we talk about, you know, we're so cerebral, right? So we talk about sort of data points and so forth. Emotions, how you're feeling is a data point of equal, if not greater value, if we're talking of data points where they always have a value than some of the other items on the checklist, right? So what what do you what would you say specifically, if you could give like maybe three tips for a person to consider like before contractions begin and it's time to get into the hospital, what might she consider or line up?

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Yeah, so one is breath. Breath is such a wonderful way to connect your body to your emotions, to how you're feeling inside of your body and connecting to the deep abdominal breathing. So a lot of us breathe really tight and in our chest because a lot of us are in stress mode all the time. And actually, again to our children being our greatest inspirations, our children can teach us how to love our bodies, how to self-regulate. Sometimes this might be something that we learn for the first time being pregnant, is your own body matters, how you're feeling. So learning about abdominal breathing, how to calm your body in times of feeling anxiety and stress, being aware of those cues that your body gives you if you feel tension in your shoulders or your jaw and how to release that with your breath would be one thing. So there are great yoga, is great for that. Um hypnobirthing, which is a method of childbirth education that I teach, is a wonderful way to learn about breathing practices. Um, and then another thing is just simply education. So learning about the mechanics of labor. Under if you don't know what a cervix is and what its function is, that is really important when you're in labor, is to be able to connect with that part of your body. We tell athletes, connect with those muscles that you need to lift that weight or run that marathon. We need to be telling pregnant women, connect to the uterine muscle. That's a big bag of muscles in your body that is doing that work of bringing your baby to the world. So in hypnobirthing, we're not imagining ourselves on the beach somewhere, we're imagining our body. So it's important to understand what's happening, what is a contraction? What does that even mean? So that as we're focusing on that part of our body, we can give our body the green light. Yes, keep doing that. I encourage people, let those contractions be big and powerful. We don't have to get through them. There's nothing wrong with your body when you're contracting. There's something right and beautiful and healthy with a contraction. So not just seeing it as something to get through or a negative. I think there's a lot of negativity involved in birth, which causes some fear and apprehension.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Absolutely, which is regrettably why so many women can almost prepare to have an epidural. And it's there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not criticizing, yeah, but I think it is, I think that whole messaging is born from the messaging of let's get through that. It's painful when really it is a sensation, a big, powerful sensation, and we are big and powerful in that moment of birth. And that that contraction is actually the beginning of then a release, an opening. You know, that's the only way we can get that opening happening so that there's room for the for the baby to be born. So let's talk about hypnobirthing because I I love hypnobirthing and and uh I'm always sending you know my patients to consider to uh I'm I'm not I'm not that bossy pants, but I but I really want to make sure that they know what what it means. How would you describe the hypnobirthing experience? And and and are people able to get hypnobirthing um education through you with whether they're your doula or not, you're their doula or not.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Yes, absolutely. So hypnobirthing combines childbirth education, so that's learning the mechanics of childbirth and labor and what how that works so that you can kind of really connect to those body parts. So it definitely is not just about self-hypnosis. You're going to learn everything that you need to learn to prepare for birth. But it gives you this special tool that's called self-hypnosis. And what we teach is that all hypnosis is self-hypnosis, so kind of demystifying that, not to be afraid or to think that it's something someone can do to you. You're very much in control, and it's a choice to connect your mind and your body together and use this tool to guide your body through the labor process. We work with individualizations, affirmations, calming techniques. So you end up with this toolkit that you can bring with you into the birthing experience, and it's very powerful, and it's something that personally I have used for the rest of my life. I'm always aware of my mind and how my mind and body is working together. For me, that started with hypnobirthing. I was, I with my first vaginal delivery, so I had a C-section my first birth, Caesar birth. Second birth was a vaginal delivery, and I did it naturally. Um, and it was really hard. And I wasn't sure how I felt about it actually. I came out of that experience saying, Well, I did it and I'm glad I did it, but I was so afraid and I was so stressed the whole entire time. And I thought there's gotta be a better way to do this. Um, and someone introduced me to hypnobirthing, very fortunate. Um, and that was a completely different way of approaching again labor and delivery, not as a negative to get through, but as something to embrace. And so hypnobirthing taught me to do that. That's what I teach families to do. Absolutely. You can connect with us through our website if you're local. I teach classes in person, and I'm about to launch a fully online hypnobirthing class.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

That's what I was hoping to hear you say. Yes. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

I've been teaching hypnobirthing for 10 years. So really excited to be able to um reach people that are beyond our local area here.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

And this isn't a new thing. I mean, my daughter's turning 34, and I used hypnobirthing when I was delivering her. And frankly, the doula who was delivering, who was assisting, you know, asked my my my partner, is she like a super athlete or something? Because I I was able to predict the contractions before they were showing up on the screen. And it's not because I'm so magical, it's that I was that tuned into my body. And so I was able to really ride those those sensations. And by the way, nope, I am definitely not and never have been a super athlete. So it wasn't that. It was truly that ability to prepare and have that that muscle, you know, ready to go, if you will, that that mind muscle. Please connect with us for a fertility assessment call at the link below. We'd love to learn a bit about you and share our resources. And make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel so that you never miss an episode. How far in advance do you recommend that someone begin a hypnobirthing training or or or discipline?

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Yes. I like people to register for the class as soon as they're thinking about it. This is part of trusting your intuition. If it's on your mind, purchase that class, sign up. A lot of courses come with a lot of resource folders, online content, things that you can start to digest and dig through even before the class begins. So Hip Nover Thing Like Anything isn't a magic bullet. It requires participation. And so as soon as you're thinking about it and practice and you just have more time to practice. But if you're going to take an in-person class and that's something that you want, sometimes people do feel a value and attending an in-person class closer to their due date. But if they're not going to take an in-person class and many people today are turning to online resources, then do it now because again, your intuition is guiding you. Something in you is saying, I want to learn more, and don't delay that for yourself. I would sign up for it right away.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Yeah, that's beautiful. How do you see and how do you practice advocacy in the earthing room?

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Yeah, I love the question of advocacy because a lot of people are scared of it and they're afraid that that means that they're going to be bringing in confrontation or negativity into a space that really should be all about support and peace. And I'm with you. If you are going to do those things, that's a negative. We don't want to advocacy isn't about negativity, being combative. Um, those are not recommended at all. We are collaborators with our medical care providers. Um, but advocacy means using your voice, and that means um understanding your patient rights and responsibility. And good informed consent means that you're going to be asking questions as your provider is telling you what your options are. There's no expectation that you just say yes to everything. I don't know about you, but I do think we've come from a time where our mothers, our grandmothers maybe had different experiences where medicine did tell them what to do. You do this, you do not question the doctor.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Exactly. That is true. And frankly, I regret to say that it still is the experience sometimes, um, thankfully less so in the birthing room, because we've, you know, this is one area of medicine that has uh made some progress in recognizing that it's a better outcome for all, including the medical team, when there when there is cooperation and mutual respect.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yes, absolutely. So this is where it's in it's welcomed in the birthing space. Your doctors, your nurses, I can't tell you how many times I've talked to nurses that say, I wish people would ask me questions. I wish that even if a doctor is recommending something, there's a difference between recommending, maybe like, I'll recommend breaking your water to speed up your labor. That isn't a recommendation that is connected to your safety and health or your baby's safety and health necessarily. It might be, but it might just be, hey, do you want me to speed up your labor? And that might mean the mom says no, thank you, or thanks for that option. I'm gonna try these other things first, but it's good to know that it's there. So it's simply just asking questions, asking for an explanation of your options and asking to really be considered in your care, it's your body. And women have been dismissed in that earthing space, so they're apprehensive to speak up. But to your point, we want women to speak up. I would say hospitals, labor and delivery floors, nurses, doctors, they're already waiting, wanting for women to be more um participating in their care.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Right, excellent. And then uh again, when in the timeline does one begin the advocacy uh uh how shall I say, approach to to you know their planned birth?

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Yes, before you get pregnant. Even after you're pregnant, there's never too late. Um, you're looking for providers who welcome that. So if you do have a provider who is one of those, don't ask me any questions, I'm the doctor, you don't get to have a say, that might not be the right fit for you. Even if you are a very high-risk patient, I worked with very high-risk mothers who have delivered high-risk babies or they themselves are high-risk, who had plenty of options and support and good informed consent. Because even if she's going to consent to the care that's being recommended, she should be a part of that process. She should be consenting and understanding what's being recommended to her because it's her body, it's her baby, it's her birth. She deserves to understand those recommendations and to be part of her care. So it's important to all, you know, in the prenatal time when you're working with your doctor, you go in and ask questions, but that's advocacy too. If you need support from Adula, Adulas are never gonna speak for you. They're never gonna tell someone what to do. Adulas will never judge you for wanting anything. We're not here to prescribe your care either. We're here to learn from you, understand you, your history, your lived history, and your body. That matters to me. When I work with a mom, where did it tell me about your history? Tell me about your family, tell me about where your background, where you're coming from. All moms are different. So we want to learn you, your experience, so that we can better understand how to support you, but not speak for you. That is something that we support, but not teaching.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

I really I love that distinction because I think again, sometimes, especially, you know, um couples, they're they're kind of in a quandary of well, if we bring in a third party, is that person going to take over the birth? And speaking of partners, how do you work with the partner? So that that partner is also part of the experience.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

We love supporting partners. We know that if mom and partner feel good together, that partner is playing to their strengths, so that might mean the partner is very hands-on. That might not be a partner being very hands-on. Just like all moms are different, all partners are different. So we don't say that a partner has to do this or have to do that, even something as simple as cutting the cord. Not all partners want to cut the cord. And today's partners are feeling free to say, that isn't a good fit for me. And most of the time the mothers are like, okay, let's talk about who's going to do it. Maybe I can do it instead. So we're teaching them to communicate with each other, help them understand each other, what their expectations for each other. And that gives us a good idea of how to support them. If a partner wants to be very hands-on, we can support them with our knowledge that we bring based on our training, our education, our experience for things like massage and hip squeezes and counterpressure and position changes, all of those things.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

So you're giving some guidance to the partner as to what they what their options are as well. And I think that that is so beautiful because then in the birthing room, you as the doula are available to do the other things that might pop up as being necessary. I don't know, going to get some some water or you know, or dimming the lights or something like that so that the partner can remain hands-on and isn't kind of running around like a chicken without its head trying to figure out what are all of the things that need to get done.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Yes. Or something as simple as like, it's been an hour. You should probably empty your bladder now. I mean, that isn't always an intuitive partner suggestion. But if your bladder is full, it's going to prevent the baby from coming down. So we need to make sure she's hydrating and she's urinating and she is she's allowed to eat, she can eat. If she wants to rest, she can rest. So we bring our education and our experience and our training. That's essential. We're not just there as an extra support person. We're there as professional support people to support the couple.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Yeah, that's beautiful. Are there any stories that come out in in particular where you where you say, okay, this was just such a special doula slash clinical hypnotherapist slash what was your other uh bonding experience? That you say this this epitomizes what it means when you can have this integrative care.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

It's hard to pick just one. I know. Um, because I feel that with the families that we work with, they really do achieve their goals. If their goal is to have a calm, peaceful, embodied, connected experience, then that is often what I'm seeing. Sometimes I'll tell people, I live in a bubble. I forget that this isn't what happens all day, every day. I want more of this to happen. But yes, absolutely. I mean, I can I feel like I have several um stories popping in my head, but one in particular from a couple who had dealt with some infertility for several years before they were able to conceive and um had a lot of apprehension when they finally did get pregnant. And I think that's common with people who have fertility journeys. As soon as they're pregnant, they're worried about loss because they've already experienced so much.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

I mean, they're high for everyone, but when you've already experienced the loss, it's it's it's existential.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Yes, that's a good word for it. And I think this is where prenatal bonding becomes important because one of the most common things is for people to kind of detach a little bit because they're like, Well, I a hundred percent I want this baby, but I'm scared. I'm scared I'm gonna have to go through a loss and I want to be strong and I don't want to fall apart. And so I had a mom come to me and say, I just know that I'm pregnant, but I don't know that I'm pregnant. And I just there's this block here, and I just can't see my baby, I can't bond with my baby. And um, that's where hypnotherapy became really important. That's where prenatal bonding really became important. So we spend several weeks before she delivers a meeting and unpacking that, but part of it is just allowing her to voice those concerns and then speaking truths to her body, speaking truths to her baby, using deep relaxation, guided relaxation, to help her to just kind of remove that block. And she did it herself. It wasn't anything that I did or anyone did. It never is, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

It has to come from within. Describe, if you will, prenatal bonding, because of course we, you know, we we think of the bonding happening at you know at at first latch, right? Gazing into each other's eyes. And of course that that is that is there, but let's talk about prenatal bonding. What is it? How would you define it and and and and why is it so important?

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Prenatal bonding is like a window to the womb where we recognize that the baby is a conscious being, two hearts feeding inside one body. How many moms do you know who have later said about their children, oh, you were, you know, so active in the womb, it doesn't surprise me how active you are now, or oh, you were so inquisitive in the womb, it doesn't surprise me how inquisitive you are now. Mothers sense these things about their babies. So prenatal bonding is a window to the womb, allows the mother to recognize the baby as a conscious being, which she probably is already doing. And again, connects her to her body. The baby is in her body, connects her to the hormones that are flowing through her bloodstream and across the placental wall and into the baby and helping her to understand you and your baby are one. And yet you're going to experience things like stress or maybe even mental blocks that are making going to make it challenging to bond with the baby. That's okay. That's no fault. We don't want women to feel bad or to shame themselves completely understandable. But we want to support you in removing that because you want to remove that. So using relaxation is kind of getting her her brain out of the way, you know, her her thinking brain out of the way. And when she's able to relax into deep relaxation, allowing her subconscious mind to kind of relax as well, she's able to imagine the baby in the uterine environment in the in the womb. And all kinds of things come up. Sometimes the babies seem to send moms little stories or signals or visuals. Um I had one baby that she said, I just keep imagining him in this sunny, outdoor, beautiful meadow. And I said, What a beautiful picture your baby gave you of the home that you have created for him and your body. And she just began to cry because I think she felt that her body had been a failure before, and it was hard for her to imagine or maybe think, rationalize that she had done something right. And to hear her baby, her own baby, give gave her this picture of like, look, mom, I'm in this beautiful meadow and the sun is shining and I'm so happy in here. It is the best work of my life. It is something I'm very passionate about because during that short prenatal period, it's an impactful period. And if women are able to address some of the things that they've been taught to minimize or be quiet about or hold inside, they're again very usually easily able to move blocks, prepare to meet this baby. And when the baby is born, they feel that they're giving birth to someone that they've already started to get to know.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Yes, I love that. You know, you talked about, you know, subconscious and imagination, but I'm given that you're a poet, I'm gonna dare to say it really begins the soul-to-soul communication because these are two souls who who either have already or about to come into body and have a relationship. So it is not it takes that otherness away, which really can even happen when you've got a baby in utero. It can feel like, oh, it's it's the baby, it's it's an another. It's not it's not my my soul mate, if you will, coming in as a soul partner, soul relationship. So I really just as you describe it, I can just feel my own heart melt as opposed as opposed to um having a um a learned discipline, if you will, of like, you know, the breathing and all of that is you know, those are learned things, whereas this soul thing is it it's it came before we even came into being, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Yes, and I I worked with a woman earlier today. We did some prenatal bonding, and we were talking a lot about all of the things, you know, the data points, the things she needed to know. And I do think that today's women mothers are really prepared. There's a lot of information to digest, but we stop at a certain point, we're like, now it's time to bond with the baby, because we just kind of say that's important, the education piece, but this is equally important.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

I would say even more important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Because the imprint is happening, you know, for at that point in utero through delivery, and like we don't begin our relationship with our babies postpartum. We begin, you know, and that imprint, so that they're getting those messages. This isn't imagination as in make-believe. This is imagination, if you will, in that where we're you know, we can't quite see each other yet, but we're having that communication. I think this is beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

If I have time for a one, please I will say one more prenatal bonding story is that um one of the women that I worked with had an amazing bonding experience. This was actually the family who had fertility challenges and then was pregnant. She had a beautiful delivery and learned so much throughout that whole process. And um, there was a song that kept coming in her mind that she was humming to the baby. Um, it was like a song that she said, I feel like, you know, it was from when I was a little girl sometime, I don't know. But she said, walking around, you know, caring for my baby after he was born. This particular song kept coming to me. And she mentioned it to her mother, and her mother was like, That's the song that I hummed to you when you were that age. And she just had tears in her eyes. And I really believe there was some type of memory. Memory isn't always just pictures, and again, not exact memory is somatic. Memory is embodied. That's what your muscle memory is. There was a memory that she had of her mother singing a song to her that came back to her. And think of how young she was at that time. So something in her mind had that connection to motherhood, to caring for her baby, to being cared for as a child. That again, this is across the generations, bringing us back together to the women who came before us and our families, the children who come after us. I believe to your point, it is just as important as anything we do to think about that whole experience of bringing a human being, a soul into the world.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Right. And these things can they they they they're they don't happen in sequence, they happen in in the same container. I mean, certainly some of the some of the checklist items need, you know, you gonna need to have the car seat before you get before you leave the hospital, that kind of thing. But but this this whole experience of prenatal bonding is is can begin even before you have your positive pregnancy test, if you will, because you you you are you are beginning the communication with the the the the the uterus, the container that will the the nest that will hold this being. So you're you're kind of getting ready for your guest, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Yes, we call them wombmates instead of roommates, they're your little womb mate. And I love what you just said. That is we should add that to the list of things to do to prepare for birth, is connect to your uterus, start to create the space that your baby's going to be living in. This is powerful work.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

And if I if I will to the listeners and viewers, do it even if you think, you know what, I'm I don't think I'll ever have a child. You have your uterus. If you are a person with overs and uterus, connect with those because we're we have been taught to kind of almost like hide from them, avoid them. They're, you know, they're they're they're troublemakers when we're, you know, according to the sex ed provide, you know, educators and when we're in our teens, they are not. They are they are the most important part of being a human being as a woman, I'll just use that phrase, as a person with ovaries and uterus. It is it's such a depth of experience, of being of being of the being human, of the humanity experience that um don't wait is is what I would say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Yes, yeah, I agree with you 100%. It's powerful.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Yeah. I it and I could go on and on with you because I love this conversation. I always want to be mindful and respectful of your time and the listeners and viewers' time. And I want to take a moment to thank listeners and viewers for spending the time with us. We know time is precious and it could be held with anyone, and we're grateful that you spent it with us. We will have Erica's uh website in the show notes so that you can uh connect with her if any of this resonates with you or someone you know. You know, it's it it it some of us listening are are no longer, you know, in our baby making years, but we all know someone who could benefit from it. So share the episode, leave your comments. We really want to know what you have to say. And before we sign off, Erica, is there anything, any parting words that you want to make sure that um the listeners and viewers receive from you before we call it a wrap?

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Thank you. First of all, thank you so much. You're right. Thank you for your time, thank you for being here, thank you for connecting us in this way. And what I really want to say is return to a trust in your body and return to what you know inside of yourself, that you are a powerful being, that the light in you, the work that you are doing, whatever work you are doing is important. So listening to yourself, connecting to your inner voice, honoring that voice, refusing to let it be dismissed or set aside, especially by yourself, is the first most powerful step that any of us can do.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Thank you. I think you just named your next book of poetry, return.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

Because as soon as you said it, it's it's it felt like such a poetic word. And I wish we had time to talk about the the uh the hunger uh poetry book, but I'm gonna go get it because I'm curious as to, especially as it came out in the kind of just post um post-COVID years. I'm sure it has a lot of resonance with what we all experienced and were hungry for at that time. So um, and that's also the beauty of poetry is that no matter what your experience is, there's something in the lines of poetry that that will, you know, that will that you'll connect with. So I'm looking forward to doing that.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

So yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

My pleasure. Thank you so much for your time, viewers, listeners. Thank you so much for your time. We're gonna call it a wrap here. We will be back next week with another episode of Health University. And as we uh sign off with many of our episodes, we say class dismissed.