Air Quality in the IVF Setting with Dr. Kathryn Worrilow

In today's episode of Health Youniversity, Dr. Susan Fox sits down with Dr. Katie Worrilow — founder and Chief Scientific Officer of Life Air Systems, postdoctoral-trained reproductive physiologist, and former scientific director of IVF programs for over 20 years — for a conversation that will change how you think about your IVF cycle.

Dr. Katie spent twenty years noticing something. That when construction began outside the hospital, when the medevac pad got repaved, when the parking lot was resurfaced — clinical pregnancy rates dropped. Not because of the medicine. Not because of the protocol. Because of the air surrounding the embryo during the most critical six to seven days of its existence outside the body. That realization became Life Air Systems — a patented air purification technology now installed in 41% of US IVF programs, awarded 23 patents, over 60 registered trademarks globally, and the 2025 Edison Award for innovation in healthcare.

The data from clinical studies across several thousand patients showed a nearly 20 percentage point increase in clinical outcomes with complete air quality control. Across the full installation base worldwide, the average increase in clinical pregnancy rates is 14.9 percentage points — with corresponding improvements in implantation rates and blast conversion rates.

You'll learn why the air surrounding a human embryo during culture matters.  Why the environment, and chemical pathogens like toluene from warm asphalt do to embryo development — and why you won't see the damage at day 3, only at day 5.   Blastocyst conversion rates and implantation rates are the metrics that tell the real story —   air quality has to do with both. And you’ll learn what questions to ask your IVF clinic before your next retrieval or transfer about air quality at the transfer stage, why the same variable that improves outcomes also reduces the likelihood of needing multiple retrieval cycles — and what that means financially and emotionally. And you’ll understand why Dr. Susan is calling out fertility insurance providers and employee benefits managers in this episode directly.

This episode is for you if you're preparing for an IVF cycle and want to do everything possible to optimize your outcome, you've had a beautiful day 3 embryo report followed by a devastating day 5, you've been through one or more failed cycles and are trying to figure out what to do differently before the next one, you want

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Hello and welcome to today's episode of Health University, where we talk all things fertility, pregnancy and postpartum, and prep for perimenopause. But mostly we talk about fertility because it is such an important conversation. And today we actually have an important conversation within the important conversation. And I'm delighted to have as our guest today Dr. Katherine Worlow. And she goes by Dr. Katie or Dr. Warlow. We'll get to that. She is going to talk to us about something that she discovered and then designed and developed to work through the problem of air quality inside the hospital setting or the clinic setting. And it kind of blew my mind because it's not something that I had actually thought about. I think about environmental toxins out there, but not inside the most important area of getting your IVF cycle done and done well. So Dr. Katherine Warlow is founder in CSO, chief scientific officer, is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Life Air Systems. Welcome, Katie. It's wonderful to have you here. You know, here at Health University, we often we're often talking about the microcosm, right? Of the, you know, the meds, the emotional impact, the relational impact, and really never giving thought to the actual environment that all of the this IVF is happening in. So tell us the origin story, if you will. How did this come about? How did you come to realize you know the V8 moment of there's something there, there?

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I'm really looking forward to our conversation and thank you for what you do as such a tremendous resource for patients seeking help, fulfilling their dreams of having a family. So the aha moment, I mean it, the aha moment, it definitely did occur, but it did take us 15 to 20 years to understand the significance of air quality within the IVF laboratory. I mean, think about it. All the colleagues throughout the world are are attempting to culture the human embryo outside of the protective, sterile nature of the body for six to seven days. So that's a very daunting task. And we, like any other program, did everything possible to create the perfect environment, you know, with sterility and some clean room technologies, air filtration, our gowning techniques, our SOPs, we did everything possible. And what we learned over a 20-year period, I mean, most colleagues have undulations, increases and decreases in their clinical pregnancy rates. And what we learned over a long period of time is that when there might be outside hospital construction or the beginning of a construction project or resurvicing a parking lot, um, or perhaps the change even in Medevac traffic. We we actually were at a level one trauma center. So there was a lot of Medevac traffic, ambulance, you know, idling engines, patient car engines, things that were completely reasonable at a large hospital, but also completely out of our control. And what we learned was the coincident timing of the initiation of these activities and the drop in our clinical pregnancy rates. So it was that it was that realization that helped us understand what body of air really needs to surround the human embryo for successful culture outside of the body for six to seven days. And once we delivered, once we learned what airborne metrics that consisted of, I actually went to the hospital CEO at the time and shared our learnings over the, I kept him, you know, appraised of this, and shared our learnings of this. We we've now we now understand the significance of air quality on our clinical outcomes, and we think we understand what air we need to deliver to the lab for consistency so that at least it's not a variable negatively impacting the level of care we could offer our patients.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

And and he literally said, purchase what purchase a solution, fix this, fix this. That's what you want to hear.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Exactly, exactly. Very visionary leadership, no hesitation there whatsoever. And I thought it would be a fairly easy capital purchase experience, capital purchase, you know, project. And I was shocked that there was nothing available commercially that we could purchase as an IVF practice to put to deliver the air we now knew was so significant. And that that was both personally and professionally unacceptable. Of course, to me.

unknown 6:20

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

The fact that we now knew of a variable that was impacting our clinical pregnancy rates, but yet we had no solution.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

And and these that what was impacting us, these were very typical, acceptable hospital um activities. You know, a progressive hospital with construction and resurfacing of asphalt. I mean, you can't control that. Right, right. And we had a very sophisticated laboratory. I mean, we we were at the cutting edge of offering the best of the best, um, as most of our colleagues. So that was the actual the aha moment. That was the genesis of life air systems. And I said, you know, I don't know how we're, you know, let's work backwards. Here's the box of air we need to develop or produce from whatever is challenging it, outside or inside. I mean, we as clinical staff, we generate airborne pathogens, we generate chemical pathogens, so do our patients, so do our procedures. I mean, that's it's it's unavoidable.

unknown 7:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Um, as well as the outside environmental contributions. Um, think of the Canadian wildfires, think of the California wildfires. I mean, just the list goes on and on.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Yes. People are coming in with uh unbeknownst to them with that particulate in their clothing, and then it's getting, you know, released in the air and and then moved through the the air filtration systems, yes, but it's not being filtered.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Do you know that wow, wow.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

So it was that that it truly has become a labor of love. Yeah, because this this had to be this had to be solved.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

Yeah, and and my my my sense, and I and I feel really confident in saying this, this wasn't about so much clinical pregnancy outcomes, it's the patients. Oh my gosh, of course. The clinical pregnancy outcomes is you know, the that the that's data that gets reported, but your your motivation was oh my god, patients who have given everything to this cycle. Yes, and and again, nobody knew that this was a potential you know a variable that could lead to uh such a tra a tragic outcome.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, I mean, that this is an extremely difficult uh attempt, time for you know, for anyone going through this process. There's nothing easy about it.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

And we would do anything for our patients. And the fact that we had uncovered this um and and others, there were other pioneers, you know, as well that were the the data was starting to build at this point in time, but now we have a very clear understanding of the significance. And this just this had to be a problem that had to have a solution for our patients.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Yeah. So did it start within then? Did the team uh the assemble team start within the university, or did you immediately like outreach to other IVF, you know, centers to say, you know, let's let's put our heads together on this?

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Actually, I reached out to physicists and carbon chemists and clean room engineers and to for brainstorming.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

I see.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

And I said, This is this is the box of air we need to produce. We don't want byproducts, which is very common. We don't want byproducts produced. I mean, Murphy's law, you remove nine of ten toxic airborne pathogens, but you produce one that could be equally as toxic as what you're removing.

unknown 9:53

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

So I pulled together that type of skill set in individuals, and it took several years. That was my next question.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

How long did it take to figure all of this out?

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Yeah, it definitely wasn't overnight. It took several years to develop a system that would, I mean, we also set because we were selfishly trying to protect the human embryo, right? We set the design bar very high. And what I mean by that is we wanted to drive all chemical pathogens. So if you're able to smell something now in your office, a cup of coffee, you know, anything, that's parts per million levels. That's what we can sense. We wanted to drive all chemical pathogens to near below detection, which is parts per billion. That's an extremely difficult task to achieve because there are over 90,000 chemical pathogens. The other thing we wanted to do was we wanted to provide on a single pass of air, so the air goes through the technology once and whatever enters does not exit. We wanted to provide a single pass kill of the anthrax spore. Now we didn't choose that fortunately because we were concerned with anthrax, but because that's the hardest biological to kill. And if you're able to kill that, you kill all the things with which we are concerned. Wow. So that that's the level of protection we selfishly demanded for the human embryo. I don't know that it's selfish, but I actually it's the bad thing. But that was our that was our entire focus was to protect the six to seven day period. Yeah. Um, and so it took several years to design the technology. And then as a scientist, um I can't help but to look at things through my own lens. So what proof, what data, what studies, what publications would I need to see to remotely entertain a new technology to bring into our IVF practice that could impact patient care.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

And so we then conducted clinical studies with large IVF programs, actually, both were in New York, and published that data, presented that data, and then only then, so now we're talking four to five years in, wow, did we launch commercially an IVF?

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Wow. So so about how many participants were in those studies?

SPEAKER_00 12:30

What was what was the what was the cohort size of the meta-analysis size of uh oh there were several thousand patients between two different two different programs, each of whom were doing IVF differently.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Um very interesting. And and the in the improv the increase in success rate was what from what to what?

SPEAKER_00 12:49

The increase in clinical outcomes was was approaching 20 percentage points. Wow. So before this, before, in other words, in before having this complete control of air quality, I mean everybody uses something. Right. So before having complete control to going to complete control, there's a 20 percentage point increase. That's phenomenal in the studies. Phenomenal. Yes. So we were, and and it, and we honestly didn't know what to expect. We knew environmentally the system would deliver, which of course there's environmental data throughout the study. So our goal was to take whatever their baseline chemical pathogen levels were. We did a lot of testing with what they already had, and then of course had their clinical outcomes, yeah, and then ran the studies um, you know, for an extensive period of time, and then looked at the environmental control all along the way, as well as their clinical outcomes.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Um here's a question. If I were a uh a person considering an IVF you know cycle, uh is is is that a question I could ask of the IVF center? Do you know what is their you know, air quality control? Are they using the life air uh the what I'm sorry, I'm tripping over my talking about the life air system. Yeah, I was trying to call it the life air cycle.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Oh no, absolutely. I I mean, we're all about empire empowering yourself with data. And you know, asking questions, being your own advocate. Um, and patients going through this process are unbelievably impressive. Yeah, as to we loved the questions that they would ask us. Such as give me an example of everything. I mean, they they were so well read. I mean, what in particular on their etiology, like what brought them to IBF, whether it was male factor, female factor, both unexplained, they were so well read and would ask us questions specific to their particular circumstances, which we loved and found very challenging. And it and and we learned in talking with the patients. So, you know, advocating for yourself and I would absolutely ask, you know, tell us about the air filtration that you use in your lab and your clinical procedure rooms. Because it starts with the egg retrieval. Yeah. It goes through the lab and then it goes back to the embryo transfer.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

I mean, I guess I think all of it is key.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

I can't imagine the rationale behind choosing to have this filtration system only in the lab when you know that those embryos are being the transfer isn't occurring inside the lab, right? So it's it's going to have to be exposed to other environment. In your in your site, is there a list of of you know clinics or hospitals that that utilize your your system? Um again, it's I'm just thinking if it were myself or well, not myself, but my daughter, I'd like that's a question I would be asking now, now knowing what I know, like right up front, because that's going to be a qualifier for me. Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Uh-huh. Right. No, absolutely. On our website, there there is a list. I don't think it's completely with listing everyone. Our technology in one form or another is in about 41% of all USIVF programs. 41%. Okay. All right. Well, in what in one form or another. And across our installation base, um, the one thing I love about our data is it's evergreen. So we're constantly getting feedback from our installed base. And they're telling us their clinical outcomes, whether it be implantation rate, which is key. Of course. Yeah. Last conversion rate, you know, obviously clinical pregnancy rates, live birth rates, specific to the etiology of those patients and the age group.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

So I've put together a free 28-day detox masterclass that you can access by clicking on the link below. And now let's go back to our show. So you actually have data on the live birth rates as well.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Oh, yes. Yeah, we're we're tracking everything for our installation base. Um, but I would encourage patients to, you know, ask wherever they're going, you know, what air filtration system are you using? Um, we're of the belief it's difficult to manage what you don't measure.

unknown 17:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

So are they measuring the air quality in their lab, in their clinical procedure rooms?

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Um I'm surprised that that's not a like a requirement. Knowing now what we know, and I know many many, many are private practices, so you know, may not have to fall with this under the same rigor as a university setting, um, but still.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah, and a lot of it depends on if their clinical procedure room is is registered as an OR. If it's registered as an OR, there's a there's a different level of regulation. Um, but I mean, most most providers are, you know, they're trying to do their absolute best. Of course.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

No, this is this is in no way a you know, blame shame of the providers. They wouldn't be in this industry if they didn't have amazing hearts of gold. Yes. And yet, again, when once you know, you can't unknow. So in my own field, there are people with amazing hearts of gold who don't have the training. They they want to be helpful, and sometimes they're actually not helpful. And so um, you know, we we we those of us who care about a level of training, do self-examine, self-examine CEUs and all of that so that we can have a translation, if you will, to the IVF clinic and doctors to help the patient really understand what's going on and and and become more familiar and comfortable and relaxed with the pro process. But for if if someone doesn't, they can have all the great intention of the world. But this is an existential moment for these people who are who are entering the IVF realm. And so we just can't, it can't, we can't afford to have them, you know, kind of throw anything to to caution. No, no, absolutely. I didn't realize that that there was a a a distinction of an OR setting within the IVF clinic versus a there can be, and some of sometimes it's state, it's state by state.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Okay. So it can be very unique, but it's um, but it's just it's just good with our learnings now, and and it one thing we we uh it's it very important to us as a team and as a company is to continue the research. So we're we're now involved in uh very in-depth studies with both Duke and Lehigh universities, um, looking at we now have a very good sense of what chemical pathogens and biological pathogens are fairly typical in IVF programs. We've done so much air testing and so much before and after data. So we have a very good sense of what is typical.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

And we also understand what the typical sources are.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Uh-huh. Um, so when they are, and they are the those sources are are part and parcel of the IVF clean operations, right? I mean you need to have certain chemicals for you know cleaning instruments, you need to have, you know, all the the host of things that you that one would need to be operating in, and I air quotes operating, but be working in a setting like an IVF center. Um Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

And what it's also important, you know, does the is there crosstalk, if you will, of the air between the clinical procedure room and the lab? So, and that's critical because whatever activities are happening during the retrieval or transfer can absolutely impact what's happening in the lab. So the lab really needs to be sealed. It it needs to be protected. It doesn't have to be sealed, but it needs to be well protected or working the the ideal is to protect both. Yes, of course, of course, start to finish.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

And a very, a very maybe silly question. If one starts with the lab, can can the clinic then use that same system and push it through you know, vents and all of that for the other other uh rooms in the in the clinic setting? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Uh yes. So our systems are designed to protect a certain cubic volume of air. So if we're asked to protect, you know, an IVF lab only or an IVF lab and the retrieval rooms, or an ICU, or a NICU, or actually our technology is now and then and protecting a new terminal in a commercial airport, an international airport, which has very high ceilings. Yeah. So obviously for us, it's all about cubic volume of air. And then we size our system so that it's delivering the protection we just discussed, you know, with single pass remediation of all the airborne pathogens, whether it's a small, medium, or large IBF lab, plus clinical procedure rooms, you know, plus if they want to expand it from there. So so that it's it's it's you know, doing that initial engineering work so that we we are completely confident that they're getting the protection that they need.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

And so is this happening in the HVAC or is this a device, a separate device?

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Yes, within the HVAC. Okay. Yes, yes, we are downstream of the air handler, which everyone has. We're downstream of the air handler, and we basically replace if you picture ductwork above your ceiling, which honestly, I never thought I would be so fascinated by this, but it's if you picture ductwork above your ceiling or on the rooftop, you have your air handler, then ductwork, and then it routes itself into the critical spaces. So our technology replaces so many feet of ductwork. I see. Okay, all right. And so then the air goes from our system right into the clinical space it's protecting.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

So you can really can be that discreet where you know if somebody says, you know, right now I can only do this in the embryology room, you can just take that duct. And and apply your technology to that room.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

We will size it appropriately, do all the engineering, and we work with them hand in hand until that is up, operational, and successful.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

And what I think I heard you say is your recommendation would be to the best of anyone's ability is to do the embryology and the procedure room because it is that cross that cross contamination is just you you can't you can't you're not you're not going from one room to another in a bubble. So right. No, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

And it's usually not that, you know, it's it's not that difficult to cover all of it versus just the last.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Okay. All right. Well that's also very key. I mean, really, you're in there. You're in the you're in the HVAC, right? So it's like why why would someone say, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do the procedure room, I'm only gonna do the embryology room. So and there's typically, well, there's far more traffic and activity in the clinical procedure rooms with you know patient with patients and staff and cleaning and and um just even even gowns, you know, the the the debris that you wouldn't even think is is floating off the off the newly washed gown.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yes. Yes. Oh, everything matters. Yeah, it it it all matters, which is what which is what we learned, you know, over that 15 to 20 year period.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

This is this is so fascinating. I I and I'm not I don't really have the good questions. So I'm I want to ask you to tell me what questions should I be asking you that I haven't asked yet. Because I've just I I really I I've just entered a world of I had no clue about this. And it's it and and yet, you know, like as as soon as you started talking about it, I'm like, well, that makes perfect sense. Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?

SPEAKER_00 25:08

So well, I can I can share with you, I mean, uh as we were trying to understand this, you know, when you're looking at the embryos through the microscope, I mean, you you have a sense, I mean, you know, um you have you have a sense of um the potential outcome. I mean, just with the with the magnificence of the morphology of the embryos. And what really surprised us, and I think what probably delayed our understanding was when we would look at your beautiful eight-cell day three human embryo, stunning. That was during a period of time when we had parts per billion. I'll I'll give you an example, toluene. So toluene is a very common uh chemical pathogen from warm asphalt. Okay. So if they're repaving a metavac pad or they're repaving the parking lot, you know, producing a large amount of toluene outside, right, that got into our laboratory at parts per billion levels. So we couldn't smell it. Right, right. And the embryos were just as stunning. We had no drop in our fertilization rate, our day three morphology was breathtaking. But when we noticed the impact was was on it was later, it was implantation, uh-huh, it was last conversion, it was miscarriage rates. Yeah. So it seems like the impact, and this is part of the studies with Duke and Lehigh. It seems like the impact of your chemical pathogens or your airborne pathogens is post-day three in the human embryo.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

So it is at day five. Would you like to do that? Oh, absolutely. Okay, so you you would look under that same microscope at that same embryo and go, uh-oh, what happens here? And we see that a lot, right? The follow-up is it, it's and it's you know, the the the women come to me and just uh are crushed that they had such beautiful report on day three, and then everything fell off. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yes, exactly. No, and and every everyone tracks their implantation rate, you know, the potential of the embryo, the blast conversion rate. Those are key markers. And there are distinct, um, there are distinct changes when you have complete control of air quality in that lab, you know, and and that you you have removed that negative variable, there are distinct impacts on those metrics.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Okay. Now I have another silly question. So someone has someone's has her frozen embryos, doesn't necessarily know what the state of the condition of the air quality of her lab was. Um, can she make a beneficial impact at transfer time if she is assured that where she transfers them, it's going to be a sterile room, if you will. Maybe sterile isn't the right word word, but but using using the life air system with with or is the damage already done?

SPEAKER_00 28:03

That's a very good question. Okay. Um, yes, the damage has already been done. Okay, because it's absolutely certainly not going to hurt anything. You're not going to add damage to the process if you were then to transfer in a in a more protected area. Um, but but you do need to consider where the embryo has been. Right. Um, not to say it won't be successful. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

I mean that that is the other brilliance of of life, right? These embryos they surprise us a lot. Yes. Um with when all of a sudden we're like, well, I'm not sure how that worked, but it worked, thank God. Yes, yeah. Yes, exactly. Okay, well, I was I was just thinking again that's a very good question. Yeah, yeah. That is. It's just you're you might have a new study underway then.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Because it's just you're you're definitely not adding any further damage. Right, right. You just don't know the extent to which, you know, because it was cultured under different circumstances.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

And and and you know, additive, if it's if it's a negative additive, if that makes sense, um, you know, to be able to remove that that variable might just give someone some peace of mind.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

So and then I in terms of peace of mind, you know, if someone you know has has their frozen embryos, would you say there's value to taking a peek and seeing whether or not that that uh that lab and or that center uh has its air quality systems?

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Oh, I I would. I mean, yeah, I I think, you know, wherever you're you're you know, you plan to go or you're researching different programs, I would absolutely ask, you know, what air filtration do you use? Do you measure it? What are the numbers? You know, how often do you measure it? Do you see undulations in your clinical outcomes? Just um it it's it's it's um as I said, just empower yourself with data.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Exactly. And I think that is the whole point of this of this podcast is to empower yourself with information so that you're not feeling sort of at the at the whim of whatever whatever protocol you're being you're being assigned. And and then of course we also know, and now I'm wondering aloud, there there are oftentimes a requirement for multiple retrievals in order to get enough embryos. Do you see um better outcomes such that a person is it is less likely to require multiple retrievals, multiple STEM cycles? Yes. We absolutely do. Hallelujah. Honestly, I'm I'm hearing. I absolutely do. Oh yes beyond, like is every single cycle is not just the$30,000. It's the it's the emotional wear and tear, it's the isolation, it's the the the the the fear almost to the point of terror that this person is going through.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

So to know that you could have better outcomes and possibly only need one retrieval to get, oh I might might no, it it's it's we don't only we we not only see that, but also um, you know, they have a successful cycle in the first or second try, but then also, you know, can enjoy frozen embryos, you know, for subsequent siblings, yep. Um, which were created in the same environment. Yep, yep, brilliant, brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

So I guess I would also then say to the viewers and listeners, you know, if you have had, you know, disappointing uh outcomes, definitely before you go right into another another cycle, egg retrieval cycle, these are some of the important questions you want to ask. Because, you know, if somebody down the road or across the bridge might have the system in place, that would be a consideration I would make before just going right into a rinse and repeat of the same cycle and hoping for a different outcome.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Right, right. No, absolutely. And and I know, you know, when we would meet with couples, you know, who had failed their first cycle, going into their second cycle, it was always all right, what did we miss? What did we miss as providers? What can we do differently? Let's reevaluate this, um, versus just jumping into a second or third cycle. So um, again, just education and awareness and anything that we can do to support all clinical providers. I mean, everyone's working so hard. They're they're doing their their very, very best. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

And and there, and there aren't enough providers to meet the demand. Um, so uh so they're doing their very best and they're you know they're a little bit under under the gun, if you will. And now there's the whole scenario where many of them are like funded by venture capital and they and their whole business model becomes business over medicine. So um, and frankly, if if anybody's listening uh who might be uh an IVF center with you know with a VC backing, this this would be an argument I would make if I were you to say, let's get these systems in place now. Let's make let's have this capital big this kind of investment so that we're having a better ROI and and stats and all of that that we can report to the ASRM and so forth. I guess it's called SART now. SART, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. We we've worked with a number of those corporate groups. Oh, yeah, we we've we've worked with the leading academic institutions, uh, private practices, a lot of the corporate, probably seven of the corporate groups we've worked with.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Um and what about the what about the met the fertility insurance providers, those the specialists? We've not worked with them to do. I'm just thinking like if if there's an intervention upstream, if you will, because again, they're they're paying the the the the payout each time for each claim. If they can collect the premium, but pay less out because they the everyone had a better outcome, everyone's do thriving better, including including these fertility insurance providers. No, exactly. No, to date, we we honestly have not worked with them. Okay, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna publicize this. Is gonna go out to social media with a big attention fertility benefits providers and attention uh employee benefits providers, like the those who are they're again paying a lot of money in the premiums. If we can just improve the outcomes, you know, but the it the cost should go down, right? Per per person. I mean, the actual cycle cost is what it is, but to not have to do three retrievals, everybody wins.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Right, exactly. And like you said earlier, for us it was all about the patient.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Of course, of course, always, yeah, always.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

I mean, I I truly feel I really feel honored and blessed to have to have been in this field. I I really do. I mean, it's just just to be a small part of their journey, yeah. You know, whether it's on the provider side, which was the majority of my career, or on this side, um, you know, and and helping helping our colleagues out there, you know, support their patients in the best way possible. But I do want, I'm very much a numbers person, so I want to make sure on your podcast we talked about the data from the studies, which was just over a 20 percentage point difference in clinical outcomes, which is remarkable. But our ongoing installation base, like from everyone, everyone doing IVF differently, different circumstances, really all throughout the world, the average increase in clinical pregnancy rates is 14.9 percentage points. Still typically significant to say that's yeah, that is and as well as increased in implantation rates and blast conversion rates. That's our overall installation base. Some are much higher, you know, it's but the average mean is 14.9 percentage points. So it's we are we're honored to be a part of their care and thrilled with their outcomes.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

Yeah, that's that is so beautiful. Have have I been and you may be once removed enough from the patient experience, but I'm just wondering, has anybody come back to you and said, oh my god, thank you?

SPEAKER_00 36:08

And maybe it's the providers who do it or the or the it's usually it's been the providers, either the lab director or the medical directors. And you know, we we see everyone at ASRM at our different conferences throughout the country and uh Eshray. So because we have European installations as well. Um and uh that's just that's what gets us up at.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Of course. This is such an this is as you say, it's such a privilege to be able to work within this this field of healthcare. I I can't imagine I can't imagine choosing anything else, knowing what I know. Uh, and I've of course there's you know, people there there's a need for all of the various fields, but I I feel particularly uh just grateful and humbled that this has been my work for the past 23 years. And and of course, mine is you know, sort of adjunctive, you know, holistic care for the IVF uh patient and and seeing those improved outcomes as well. So if we can so important and just the resource that you're providing on an ongoing basis. It's tremendous. Thank you. I really am grateful to say that. So I always want to be mindful of my guests' time and the viewer and listener's uh time. And I want to thank viewers and listeners for I mean you could spend your time anywhere. Thank you for spending it with us. I hope that you got as much out of this as I did. I mean, my my the wheels are gonna be churning, and and you'll you'll probably get some emails from me saying, but what about and what about I would love to continue the conversation and I'd love to have you back from for more conversation because again, as the data is is being collected, I'm sure the stories are just gonna be so inspiring for for for the for the centers, as you as you say, the hardworking doctors, and ultimately for the patients. So is there anything that I missed that you want to be be able to impart before we sign off for this session?

SPEAKER_00 37:59

No, I mean you've you've asked such insightful questions. I just, you know, again, just you know, to the patients, just empower yourself and and be your own advocate. And I mean, you you have phenomenal people taking care of you and all working towards the same goal.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

So just just you know, continue asking those great questions, which you always do.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Yes, beautiful. Thank you, Alan. And and and your website will be in in the show notes. Wonderful where people can get you know access to the the clinics that are using your your system.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Or just if they have general questions, yeah. I mean, we're you know, we're all about education and just you know helping in any way that we can. So just send us the questions. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

And it there must be a contact us on the website with it. Yeah, I want to be mindful and respectful of your individual time so you are not inundating with it with all the questions, but I'm sure there's a process in play.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Well, Katie, thank you. I again I I I I always am I I guess flummoxed by how much more I still need to learn. And when I get a moment of inspiration like this, it just lights me up. So I'm really, really grateful that you spent the time with us, that we learned about the importance of air quality in your clinic, in the embryology room and in the in the uh treatment, uh, treatment rooms, uh, so that procedure rooms, so that you can have these these improved outcomes. So thank you for your time, viewers. Thank you for your time. And we wrap up our our episodes at Health University with the little uh phrase, class dismissed.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Oh, that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Thank you again. My pleasure.