Social Security Timing with Expert Heather Schreiber

If you’ve been told “just take Social Security at 62” because the system is running out of money, pause. We sit down with Heather Schreiber, our go to Social Security and retirement income planning expert, to unpack what insolvency actually means, what it doesn’t mean, and why fear based claiming can permanently shrink your paycheck. The core message is simple: Social Security is not a stand alone decision, it’s a lever that affects taxes, Medicare premiums, and the surviving spouse’s income.

We also go deep on why women in finance and women in retirement planning deserve special attention. Gray divorce is rising after age 50, women often carry more caregiving breaks in their work history, and they typically live longer than men. Heather explains “Social Security autonomy” and why building your own benefit matters, especially if a marriage ends before the 10 year mark for ex spousal eligibility. We talk survivor benefits in plain terms and why the higher earner’s claiming age can shape the household’s income for decades.

Then we connect the dots to tax planning: traditional 401(k) and IRA balances, required minimum distributions (RMDs), Social Security taxation, and IRMAA Medicare surcharges. If you claim early and delay withdrawals from pre tax accounts, you can accidentally create a future tax torpedo that raises your taxes and premiums when you can least afford it. Coordinated income planning, Roth strategy, and early retirement “gap years” planning can change the outcome dramatically.

If you want a clearer plan for when to claim and how to structure retirement income, subscribe, share this with someone who’s close to retirement, and leave us a review so more families can find it.

To learn more about Brad Pistole and the Ozark Retirement Group, please visit www.ozarksretirement.com 

Transcript

Market Jitters And Show Introduction

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Where the market goes down. Where the market goes down.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Welcome to State Money Radio with your host, Brad Pistol. Brad is a retirement income and tax planning certified professional, primarily serving clients in the Midwest, but he's sought after nationally for his expertise in helping people secure their retirement. Mr. Pistol is a licensed life insurance professional in approximately 20 different states, and he specializes in working with people who are near retirement and those who have already retired with wealth management, income planning, and asset protection strategies using life, health, long-term care, and annuity insurance products. And now, here to talk with you about securing your retirement, it's your host, Brad Pistol.

SPEAKER_04 1:03

Well, hello everyone. Thank you so much for joining us again today for Safe Money Radio. And I've got to tell you, I have a lot of fun in what I do. I enjoy recording over and over again every week for the five different radio shows and podcasts, and then of course all of our client meetings. So I'm always talking to someone. But today we have a recurring guest, our number one guest on the show for 2026. This is our third time to join us, my sis, Heather Schreiber, one of the smartest people I know in the world, joining us again today. But I gotta tell you, we've had more fun this morning before this show starts than any show I've done in 18 years. So and we got to tell you about it, right, Heather?

SPEAKER_02 1:40

I knew that you would. So carry on.

SPEAKER_04 1:43

So if you're just now joining us and you're listening on the radio, we're so thankful for you joining us. We've been on for 17 years now, and we of course have a podcast too. So if you don't know this, since we're gonna be gabbing a lot on the show today, just go to ozarksretirement.com and click on contact us if you want more information, or go to YouTube and type in Brad Pistol. You can type in Brad Pistol and Heather Schreiber and it'll pull up this specific video where you can watch it. But we are always teasing each other about age and life and family. Our families are close, we all love each other. And so today I was like uh giving her a hard time about her age and some things like that, and she couldn't get her computer to work correctly, she couldn't get her internet to connect, all kinds of stuff going on. Her dogs are barking, patches with me, and he's potentially barking, and we can't get anything figured out, and then we think we do have it figured out and we don't, and it still doesn't work, and lights aren't turned on, and so um yeah, it was great. Heather, what was the problem this morning?

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Me. I mean, let's just call it what it is. You just led right into that. It was all me this morning, but usually it's you. Uh, but I'll take it this morning.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

And that is, and so you know, my son who she's always trying to steal to bring her way to to Georgia to fix all of her internet issues and other stuff for all of her podcasts, because she speaks all over the world. Um, we're talking to him and he's like, I'm gonna create a new show about you guys not being able to figure out your computers and call it geriatric something.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

And so I own that. I own that. I said I need him here for a full week to teach me all the things I never ever nor do I ever want to learn about my computer because I hate technology. So, yes, I'm gonna steal him in the dead of night. He's gonna come here and fix all my things.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

Yes, and in our family, there's an ongoing joke. You know, my father and both my brothers, very technologically advanced, they can do anything with the television, with wires, cables, HDMIs, whatever they call those things. And Hunter received all those gifts. Not only an investment advisor representative and an RICP and good looking and all these great things. I didn't get any of that stuff. Uh he can do anything, audio technical, YouTube. I can't do all of it. Yeah, I just tell him I'm the brains and the face behind all of it, and they can put all that stuff together and make it show up on television and radio and YouTube and all that. So

Meet Heather And The Tech Chaos

SPEAKER_04 4:00

hey, we needed to have some fun today as we start the show, and we truly do have a lot of fun. So Heather and I have known each other for almost 20 years now. It's crazy, going all the way back to the early days of Safe Money Radio. And she was the technical expert they would bring in to talk to us about Social Security planning and retirement income planning. And I I thought I can't approach her. She's that smart lady that's always up front talking about all these things I don't know. And and now over the years we've gotten to know each other. So, Heather, tell each tell everyone that's listening or watching a little bit about what you do on the day-to-day basis.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

On the day-to-day, well, I am uh sort of the person behind the curtain. I spend a lot of time studying the tax code and a lot of social security stuff. I'm I'm obsessed with social security, as your listeners know. Um, just you know, really getting into the weeds about, you know, the technicalities surrounding all things retirement income planning. So I really stand behind and support you, people like Brad, who who are the advisors that are out there really working with um those that are approaching retirement and are in retirement to make sure that we have all the rules right. Because let's face it, you and I both know how much they change. And so, you know, that's why we spend so much time educating ourselves because the minute we get one tax law down, what do they do? They bring another one out, right? And so, and so that's you know, kind of my love language is figuring out all of those technicalities and making sure that consumers and the advisors, really my clients are the advisors that make sure that they have all of that information, they're armed with all of that, so that they can serve their clients with excellence. So that's really my passion uh in doing that. And with Social Security and Medicare, you know, you can't call Social Security and really expect them to dig deep into those conversations. They just they're not allowed to do that for one thing, um, and they're not equipped to do that. So we know from all of these conversations how much goes into when to you know, figuring out when you should claim social security benefits. That's just one cog in the whole cog wheel of retirement income planning. And we know that that's really foundational, and you really need to align with somebody that really takes that education seriously, stays on top of all of the things that change on a dime. I mean, we've seen, you know, one big beautiful bill act was our the big one that we're sort of, you know, navigating now and kind of got through is the most recent legislation, and even that changes, you know, Social Security claiming it doesn't directly impact it, but there was a lot of confusion about that, right? We talked a little bit about that. Um, and so that's that's what I do, and that's what why we talk all the time, and why we are so nerdy when we talk. I mean, we we sit and talk about nerdy things and make fun of each other. It's fun, it's the combination is really fun.

SPEAKER_04 6:53

We do, and so much of the time, you know. This last weekend on the show that we did, which you know, my shows are normally recorded four to five weeks ahead of time. So ironically, we're recording this the day before tax deadline day. Tomorrow is April 15th. And so, but this won't air until probably mid-May. But in the middle of all that, we're gonna come across all these different scenarios and difficult questions and things that we've never come across before. We think, I've probably seen it all. 18 to 20 years in this business, I've seen it all. And then someone calls in and they ask a question, and I'm like, I gotta call Heather on this one. I don't know the answer, and I've never come across it, and she will have dealt with it. And so, you know, it's it's really interesting. This show that just aired this weekend, it was more of a relaxed show where I talked a little bit about my background and my history. A lot of people didn't know I was in full-time ministry before, and so I have this very unique background of knowing what it's like to live paycheck to paycheck, to have no money, to know nothing about uh 401ks or IRAs. I actually had a 403B and I didn't know what one was, but I had one because of ministry, and so then it was like, oh, you can roll that over into a IRA? What's an IRA? And I just talked a little bit about that background, and I had such a response of people saying, Oh, I had no idea that was your background. I didn't know you'd had a brain tumor when you were 27. I didn't know, you know, all these things. So it was cool getting all the feedback from our listeners from people all across the country, and then saying, Well, I didn't know that. Well, I'm a pastor, so you probably know about housing allowances. And that just spins off all these different topics of conversation. And so that's why I appreciate Heather and people with her expertise. Life is this combination, you know, it sends you down one journey and then it changes. You either have a job change, a career change, a spouse dies, you go through a divorce, you move across country, something happens with your children, all these things happen. And you may find yourself at age 50 in a completely different place than you were at at age 30, and it just brings up all these new questions and things that you have to deal with you've never dealt with before. So that's why we have people like Heather on the show. She I've I've always said, and I mean this seriously, she's in the top five smartest people I've ever met. She's that person who always knows the answer to every question. And so there's that side of me that's like, uh, why, why? But but I'm glad I'm grateful for people like her and for you know, the Ed Slots and the Wade Fowles and the people in this world that I can always turn to and say, Hey, I came across something I've never come across before. Here's the question. And people like Heather are there to answer. So here's what we're gonna do on the show today. This is gonna be really fun. We've been doing this Ask Heather series where those of you listening call in or you email me and you say, Here's a question I have. And this week I thought, here's what I want to do. I want Heather, because she speaks all over the country. She was just telling me where she's going the next three weeks. She's gone every week in May.

unknown 9:43

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 9:43

And she's speaking at all these different organizations to advisors. And I want to pick your brain, Heather, on things that are important to you, things that you see going on in the country, things that are really, really important issues that we're facing right now.

Why Women Need Financial Independence

SPEAKER_04 9:58

And so I know that one of the topics you're very interested in and passionate about is women in finance. You talk about it publicly a lot. So I want to say why are you passionate about this topic and tell me some of the key things that are going on with women in the world of finance today.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Well, and I going back to your thing, you know, talking about your story, and I think, you know, I've always been very open about my story. And, you know, we've talked about my mom and and how that sort of changed, given me more of an awareness. You know, I've talked about long-term care a lot academically, right? But when you start talking about your life, it really does change your perspective on things. And obviously, being a woman, I am, you know, very passionate about making sure that women empower themselves, right? So I've seen, you know, women that are career business women that are very involved. And I've seen the opposite end of the spectrum. Um, you know, I like you grew up with very limited resources. And so I taught myself everything I know. And I remember you were saying, What's an IRA? You know, I started out like that too. Honestly, I started my career at Franklin Templeton in California in the retirement call center. And I remember learning what an IRA was back then and IRS Publication 590. It's now split into two, A and B. But anyway, but I remember teaching myself everything I knew and literally leaving my house when I was 17, going to college and never going back. Like I and I graduated from college at 21, but it all sort of shaped me. I learned about credit. I mean, I literally was self-taught on everything. I just had this desire to learn all I could about finance. Um, you know, so anyway, I moved on, got married, and thought, you know, my parents, I came from a family of divorce, and I always thought, I don't want that, right? I don't want to ever be divorced, and I want to, you know, have that white picket fence life that I didn't have. Um, and I had two amazing boys, and circumstances changed. Now I had saved a lot of money. I'm really nerdy with money too, go figure. I had saved a lot of money to make sure to make the case for why I was gonna stay home with the kids. Um, and I did stay home. I was still dabbling though, uh the whole time I never really left retirement income planning. I my my company kept me on sort of retainer, and so I never left the industry really. I was just running around after toddlers. But anyway, unfortunately, I went through a divorce, um, didn't want that to happen, but I did. And, you know, it it it did shape my interest in wanting to really help women because I was fortunate that I had the background in this, but so many women don't. And it shapes everything because if you're not aware, you know, even it can it can, you know, changes the whole progression of your financial picture if you sort of go into that not knowing your options, you know, having, you know, I've seen that don't have a clue, you know, what's in the bank account, right? And so I was fortunate that I was aware I could find, I went right back into the space. I was blessed. I mean, God had me the whole way. I was blessed that I walked right back into my career. Um, not saying it wasn't hard, but I was able to do that. But I see so many that don't. And so that is one of oddly uh a lot of one of my presentations that I do, I'm doing a lot this year about women and how you how you prepare. And you know, one of those things is being aware, you know, having your own, you know, set uh emergency fund, you know, making sure that you start building your own earnings, because let's face it, we are typically the ones that wear all the hats. I always say to my husband, I'm remarried, I always say, you know, being a man, be nice. I mean, that's not everybody, but I, you know, I'm like the the household, you know, they always say if mama isn't happy, nobody's happy. And that's absolutely true in this house because I literally, and that's me, I'm a type A personality, so I make sure that everything gets done. Um, but the point of that is, you know, I see a lot, and we were talking about this before as you're making fun of me about the fact that I couldn't get my act together this morning about gray divorces. We're seeing that is the biggest, the largest segment of the population of women that are are are divorces, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:23

Um But I gotta stop you right there to have you clarify, because we say gray divorce all the time. Right. And when I say that to a consumer or to a client, they're like, what what? What do you what do you mean what do you mean by gray divorce? What does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Yeah, so technically gray divorce is is I don't we're not gray, but technically it's 50 or over over that. But you're you said you read something recently about 65 and over, and people are kind of saying the theory behind that would be okay, you know, kids are out of the house now. So, you know, that's happening more and more. So imagine, you know, you think you're gonna have a life one way and then you're dividing assets. And so a lot of what I talk about with with women, especially when it comes to you know, building your own base, you know, and a lot of that is with social security, you know, you gotta start building that base early because your social security is based upon your earnings history, right? So even if you do take career breaks, you know, if you maybe you're working early on before you ever have children, which is usually the case for a lot of folks, and then they might take a break. I mean, I was kind of periodically working, you know, while I was running around for with toddlers, and then I went back. That's and then you might have parents. You know, my mom last year came to live with us unexpectedly. I kept going, and you know, I have my own business, but for some people, they I mean, there's a lot of unpaid caregivers that also have jobs, but they take a hit. A lot of people that are caregivers have to take a step back from work. So you see that sort of hit, and most caregivers, the majority of caregivers are women. So we we tend to be the ones when you look at the totality of that, where you see sort of breaks in work history or less of a social security benefit and stuff like that. So I really talk a lot around the country as far as women is really trying to get as much financial independence that you can. And it starts with that social security benefit, trying to get the most that you can. You know, it's based upon your highest 35 years of work adjusted for inflation. You know, that is the first way I'd say, you know, build that, obviously building your savings, you know, if you're working, maxing out your or not maxing, doing as much as you can in your in your qualified plans first and all of that. But you know, it's just so incredibly important to really and and become familiar with your finances.

SPEAKER_04 16:49

Let's do this. Let's take a quick pause because I want to say something about what you just said and take a quick break and then jump back into the same topic. A lot of you listening right now, we know from I mean, all I'm a math nerd when it comes to radio and podcasts and all this. We know that more men listen to talk radio than women. We just know it. So right now you may be listening and you may be going, well, this is really doesn't pertain to me.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Well, no, no, well, I'm gonna talk. Then we'll talk to them in a second. We'll we'll talk to them.

SPEAKER_04 17:16

Right, but it really does pertain to you, and here's the thing you may know because I know you do, the divorce rates are more than 50% in this country. So you have a sister or you have a mother, you have a cousin, you have a friend, or it's either you or you know someone needs this information, and so this is where you can go, hey, I listened to the show today, and you probably didn't listen, but you need to go listen to it. Go to YouTube, type in Brad Pistol, Heather Schreiber, it's gonna pull up all of our conversations together. We talk about this a lot. And so this will be on, if you're listening to it on the radio, this will be on YouTube in about about three weeks. So our number is 866-780-7233. Or the easiest way, just go to Ozarksretirement.com, click on contact us, we'll get back in touch with you with any questions that you have. Well, I must take a short break. This is Brad Pistol, and you're listening to Safe Money Radio. Let's pause for some exciting announcements.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Hey, it's Glenn Beck. Can you feel it? America's pride is on the rise again. And right here in the Ozarks, the same pride lives on in how we protect our families and plan for the future. That's where Brad Pistol, president of the Ozarks Retirement Group, comes in. Brad's a certified financial fiduciary, and most importantly, a trusted neighbor who's helped countless Ozark families find financial independence. Call Brad Pistol from the Ozarks Retirement Group, 417-581-9222. That's 417-581-9222, or Ozarksretirement.com.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

You're listening to Safe Money Radio with your host, Brad Pistol.

SPEAKER_04 18:52

Hi, this is Brad Pistol, the host of Safe Money Radio for almost two straight decades. I'm a retirement income certified professional, and I love talking to you each week about developing your safe and secure retirement income plan. Now let's get back to the show.

Gray Divorce And Social Security Risks

SPEAKER_04 19:10

So, Heather, let's keep going. You've been talking about women and retirement planning, graying divorce, how you know, above the age of 50, it's the fastest growing divorce rate in this country. Um, there's a there's a I know I had an interesting stat here recently from having Joseph Jordan on the show, and he said 80% of men die married. 80% of women die single. If a man loses his spouse, he's not going to survive unless he gets remarried. So they remarry really quickly. He can't cook, clean, take care of himself. We know this. But women a lot of times will get divorced and they stay very loyal and they they are self-sufficient and they don't remarry. Or they do remarry, and guess what happens? The men die again because they're older and they die first. So they'll be they'll go through multiple stages of being a widower, uh widower or a widower. So let's jump back in and talk about the importance of financial planning for feet for females, for women, and regarding men dying first, and then also divorce and how that's affecting everybody.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

Well, let me peel back a little bit and talk about divorce. Yes. A couple things related to that. There's a statistic that I speak about in the presentation that I that give about women uh preparing for you know retirement and all of that. But with divorce, the statistic is that when there's a divorce, that a w the average um decline in standard of living for women is 45% compared to 21% for men. So it is a real feel, right? The other thing is with going back to the social security component and why I always preach social security, I call it social security autonomy, trying to build your own social security benefit as much as possible versus being reliant on a spousal benefit, meaning you say, you know, I hear people say, well, you know, I I can just collect a spousal benefit. It's high, it's you know, I'll just wait until you know my spouse files and then I'll collect a spousal benefit. What's problematic about that is what if there is a divorce? Okay. If there's a divorce and that marriage doesn't last for 10 years, guess what happens? Social Security does not care. If that divorce for nine years and 11 months, that's source of income is gone. So that's another reason why I say, you know, get your own benefit if you can. Because, you know, and even for married couples, if if you're married, you can, you know, if you have two separate independent benefits, and the maximum spousal benefit right now, or ex spousal benefit, is roughly a little bit over $2,000. It's about that, because the maximum benefit at full retirement age is about double that, right? And so if someone can get to about $2,000 as their own benefit at their full retirement age, then they Done well. That's the kind of the goal to say, okay, now we we have two separate benefits. The reason that that's good is that now you're not relying on somebody else's benefit. And so now you know that you've sort of got a predictable income stream so that no matter what happens, whether you get divorced and you haven't made it to 10 years, right? Or you're married, you don't have to wait. If you're the lower earning spouse, you don't have to wait for your higher earning spouse to file to collect a benefit. Those two benefits, those two decisions can be made independent of each other. So that's a really critical thing, going back to the divorce thing. Um, and that, and and the other thing is with survivor benefits. So now, you know, with survivor benefits, we we've talked about this before. It's really important with married couples, so speaking to the men that are listening, um, with married couples, and we see this quite often still, where there is a wide disparity in income benefits where one spouse has a much higher earnings history. We want ideally for that person to wait longer to file, so that we're also thinking about the surviving spouse, because that decision by that higher earner is going to impact what the survivor receives, because only the higher earning spouse's benefit remains once one spouse dies. So I'm kind of skipping a little bit, but let's make that real black and white for our listeners.

SPEAKER_04 23:32

Let's say you have uh two, you have a married couple, one of them their benefit from Social Security is $700 a month, the other one it's $3,000 a month. What happens when the first person dies?

SPEAKER_02 23:45

If the fur when the first person, well, okay, so in that case, let's kind of go before that. In that case, we have the the lower earner has a benefit, but let's make it that $3,000 is their is the higher earner's full retirement age benefit, okay?

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

So that means that lower earner has a $700 benefit, but 50% of that higher earner's benefit is more, right? So it's $1,500. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

So during lifetime, the lower earning spouse is going to collect the $700, reduced if they take it early, but I'm not going to even complicate it there. Let's just say they they both collected full retirement age. They're going to get the $700 plus the additional $800 for the total of $1,500. So they're going to get that spousal benefit once their spouse files. Okay. So collectively, I'm making this very, we're not even going to complicate the situation, but let's just say they both file at full retirement age. Collectively, they're one of them is getting the spousal benefit, the $700 of their own, the $800 to top it off. So the $1,500, and the and the higher earning spouse is getting $3,000. When let's say the higher earner dies, now the spouse, the surviving spouse is going to lose their $1,500 and continue to receive the $3,000. I mean, technically what happens is they keep their $1,500 and an additional $1,500 gets added, but net they lose of the $4,500 total household income, they lose $1,500. So there's still a loss of income. But the point is, let's say that that person, that hire earner, instead of collecting at full retirement age, had instead collected at 70. Well, then maybe they collected 3,500, then the surviving spouse would have collected 3,500, right? When they when that and they would have lost their 1,500. So, you know, survivor benefits are really critical to understanding with respect to married couples. Because often I hear, well, what's the break-even? When you're talking about married couples, you have to remember that a couple living together lives longer, a married couple lives longer than looking at their ages separately. Okay. And you have to remember that we're looking at longevity of two people of two lives, not just one. Women tend to live six years longer than men. So I'm kind of, I'm sorry, I'm skipping out of the divorce realm now, but going back to women. Women live longer than men, usually, okay. And so you have to think about the fact that, you know, and you if you start adding age disparities into the mix, say though, you know, the women, maybe you there's a much a younger woman, right? So now you're adding that additional six years plus the age gaps. You see where I'm going. Women tend to also, because they live longer, their health care expenses are going to be higher. All of these things compound. And so that's why these decisions, you I mean, really about you know, really thinking about how do we manage the Social Security claiming decision, health care expenses, income taxes, long, you know, long potential of long-term care. Um, the fact that once one spouse dies, now we're compressed into a single tax bracket. We're also compressed into a single uh Irma bracket, you know, for met determining Medicare premiums. All of this can get really heady really quickly, right? And so it's people like you, Brad, who goes and does the ed slot, you know, stays abreast of all of these different things

Survivor Benefits Change The Whole Plan

SPEAKER_02 27:30

so that you can put it all together, is why we are besties, because we can talk about all these nerdy things and get really excited about it. But these are the things that are so critically important because, you know, it's it's so complex when you start putting it all together and thinking about, okay, well, what should we do early in retirement besides, you know, trying to contribute as much as we can? Well, do we contribute on a pre-tax basis to our 401k? Or should we do a designated Roth deferral? These are all the things that sort of, you know, as you start into the earnings years, these things really matter. And you're because you're thinking about 30 years from now when you retire, and then when you're turning social security on and trying to mitigate all of the various risks that can occur as you go to and through retirement.

SPEAKER_04 28:20

So well, I appreciate all those things. And so before we take this next little break, I want to say this. Um, you know, I'm starting to get some pretty good alphabet suit behind my name. I wanted to catch up to you.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Yeah, you passed me now because you apparently have this so you must do nothing on Friday and Saturday night. Although I don't either, but you study. You do.

SPEAKER_04 28:40

I'm either at a farm or I'm studying. Every other week at a farm, every other week studying. But here's the thing. So Kinsley and I in my office, as you know, we both just did the RSSA. So the National Association of Registered Social Security Analysts, and this is what I learned about.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

I'll have that before I see you in two weeks. Three weeks? Am I gonna see you in three weeks? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:59

You'll have it, and you'll make a better grade than I did on on the on the three exams on that.

SPEAKER_05 29:04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 29:04

Just keep that quiet. But but here we go. We do this, and this is what I learned. The more you learn, the more you realize you didn't know. So I start learning. I thought I knew quite a bit of stuff about social security planning, and I've been through, you know, RICP and TPCP through the American College, and there's sections about Social Security Planning. But then you go through the RSSA and the entire thing is about Social Security planning. And I'm like, wow, I had no clue that there were so many different tangents. And so we try to keep things kind of dumbed down and fairly simple on the show, but then we get all these podcast listeners who are like, I wish you would dive deeper into that. And so it's a challenge to know how simple to keep it. But that's where you get into this, like Heather was talking about, and go, okay, we have so many people say, I heard I get half half of my spouse's benefit. True. Once they've reached full retirement age, if it's before that, then there's a reduction, and then there's all these formulas, and then there's, you know, but they could also defer all the way up to 70.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

On that, yeah, we could spend a whole show on that. You know, that's one of the most confusing topics, espousal benefits. And ex-spousal benefits work the same way in terms of how they're calculated, just different eligibility requirements, right? But that is one of the most confusing things, which is why I was like, well, let's just assume make it super easy because it gets complicated, especially when you have what I call dual entitlement. In your example, where one spouse has a benefit, it's small, um, but the spousal benefit will be higher. It can get complicated quickly. And who's benefit who who determines how much the the lower earning spouse gets? You know, is it when the higher earner files? No, that that that only triggers the ability to for the lower earner to collect the benefit, it's the timing of the lower earners or their age that determines how much of the spousal benefit they get. These are questions that come up over and over. And it's no wonder. I mean, I talk about it in my sleep, and and you know, you say, Oh, I know everything. No, I don't. I learn something new every day, maybe not on Social Security because I do talk about it in my sleep, but I definitely do. I mean, I dig into their program operations manual to learn to really dig deep into stuff, and I find things that I'm like, wow, okay. You know, I do learn things, um, and that's the whole thing, the joy of learning. I love to learn new things so that I can share it, you know, because these questions, you know, I did a whole doing a on Social Security Advisor talking about retroactive benefits. That's a whole nother thing. You know, Social Security is offering retroactive benefits to people when they file, if they're beyond full retirement age, and I'm like, wait, time out, don't don't do that without thinking about it. Um, there's just so many things we could we could talk about, which is why we're gonna talk a lot this year.

SPEAKER_04 31:45

Um so what I want to do right after the break is I want to talk about retiring at age 62, the earliest age you can, versus deferring and some some options as to why. So if you're listening right now, I'll just say this. Hopefully you heard enough to go, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, stop, pause, back up. You've already confused me, and you said this was easy. That's because it may be easy to us, but we understand there's really, really complicated levels to it, and the easy stuff may have just completely confused you. That's why you shouldn't just take your Social Security planning advice from someone at the golf course on the 19th hole or at Life Group at church, or because you heard a commercial, or you went to a dinner seminar and one person said you should do this, so you did it because surely they're an expert because they bought your dinner. You need to really make sure that you sit down with someone with credentials, an RSSA or an NSSA or someone who knows what they're doing, who's done this for thousands of people. So call us anytime, or just go to our website, ozarchretirement.com, click on contact us, you can ask us any question you want. I will personally reach back out to you. We'll be right back after this break. Since I have to take a break, now would be a great time to call me for a complimentary copy of my best-selling book, Bulletproof, the Safe and Secure Retirement Income Plan. And I'll also give you a copy of my Safe Money kit. My number is 866-780 SAFE. That's 866-780-7233. Isn't it time to stop exposing your retirement to market risk? You're listening to Safe Money Radio with Brad Pistol.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Hey, it's Glenn Beck. Can you feel it? America's pride is on the rise again. And right here in the Ozarks, the same pride lives on in how we protect our families and plan for the future. That's where Brad Pistol, president of the Ozarks Retirement Group, comes in. Brad's a certified financial fiduciary, and most importantly, a trusted neighbor who's helped countless Ozark families find financial independence. Call Brad Pistol from the Ozarks Retirement Group. 417-581-9222. That's 417-581-9222, or Ozarksretirement.com.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

You're listening to Safe Money Radio with your host, Brad Pistol.

SPEAKER_04 34:08

Hi, this is Brad Pistol, the host of Safe Money Radio for almost two straight decades. I'm a retirement income certified professional, and I love talking to you each week about developing your safe and secure retirement income plan. Now let's get back to the show.

Learning From The All Stars

SPEAKER_04 34:25

So today on the show, we've got Heather Schreiber with us from Woodstock, Georgia, the expert who speaks all over the country. I know she's about to be gone the whole month of May, speaking all over the world. We're going to see each other. Hey, I'm excited about this. We're going to Horizons together, or not together, we'll end up there. You're coming from Atlanta. I'm coming from Springfield. Easy for you to fly, not for me, so hopefully I end up there. But the cool thing about Horizons, and why I want to say this as we start this segment, is you know, I was thinking last night, if you watched whatever your favorite sport is, let's say you watched an NBA game. If you watch an NBA game, there'll be a couple of stars there, maybe two on each team if you're lucky. But when you go to an all-star game, everyone there is a superstar. And when you go to Horizons, this financial planning conference put on by the American College, then everyone there, it's the All-Star weekend. So, you know, Ed Slott, Wade Powell, Heather Schreiber, one of the speakers, you got Jamie, you get you just have all these people. I'm like, okay, Michael Finca, David Blanchett, they're they're all there. And so I'm gonna be there interviewing everyone as they come off stage and talk to them. We're gonna get the beauty to being in the Ozarks, you don't realize how blessed you are if you're hearing this. I'm gonna have all the interviews for from all the all-stars, the financial planning superstars from all across the world, and it's gonna air on radio and on our podcast. So we're grateful for that. But Heather's gonna be there, she's gonna be talking, and we do what's your topic gonna be about at Horizons, Heather?

SPEAKER_02 35:53

I'm gonna talk about Social Security, creating financial independence with Social Security and coordinated income planning or coordinated, you know, income and strategy, strategic planning for retirement.

SPEAKER_04 36:07

Perfect segue to my question. Great. And I didn't plan that.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

We didn't plan that.

SPEAKER_04 36:12

We didn't. So I wish that I could be there in your segment. I probably be interviewing people, but you are gonna be one of the people that I get to interview there, so that's great. Here's

Should You File For Social Security At 62

SPEAKER_04 36:22

my question. This is a big one. When do I file for Social Security? The big uh common thread right now is oh, everyone should file at 62 because their Social Security is becoming insolvent in 2033. There's not gonna be any money, take it and run. So here's the question I want to ask. Legit question. You can file at 62. Should you file at 62 in light of all the things that are going on with Social Security, or should you maybe defer as long as you can if you have other assets saved, like a 401k or a 403B, you know, when you're 62, you're above 59 and a half, there's no 10% penalty withdrawal. Should you do what we call fill the gap by using income from some of these other buckets, maybe a Roth account or a retirement account, while letting your Social Security continue to roll up for different reasons? So talk to I know that's a generic question, but should I rush right out and file at 62 and defer my assets, or should I keep allowing my social security benefit to get larger and draw from some of my retirement assets? What's your take on this? Give us some different reasons.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Okay. Well, the the first thing I would ask if someone says should they file, if they're if they're at if they're doing it simply because they're they're fearful that you know I should take it while I can because it's gonna it's going away, that isn't to me I would first say let's talk about what this does mean if it did come to fruition that that the the trust funds reached insolvency. Um it it doesn't mean that it would go away, right? It means that there would only be enough revenue to pay a percentage of ongoing benefits. You know, as long as we have people working, we're gonna have benefits paid. Um I would say that would probably be the worst thing to do because you're taking, you know, as much as a 30% haircut on your benefit from what it would be if you took it at full retirement age, and then you would take an additional roughly 20% haircut on top of that. And I always say that, you know, Social Security is one of those benefits that increases six to eight percent every year, you know, plus a cost of living adjustment. And while the cost of living adjustment in 2026 is 2.8%, and that the average is around 2.5 to 2.7% over the 30-year period, you know, the smaller, I mean, the larger the base, the bigger that those dollars are gonna work for you, right? So I wouldn't say that that would be a good reason. I also don't believe that that this the the the beneficiaries are the ones, the income beneficiaries are the ones that are going to have benefits cut. I think that you know there's something that's going to have to have to happen. The longer law market lawmakers wait, the more, you know, we're gonna have to see probably more, you know, aggressive changes, whatever that may be, whether it's increasing the taxable wage base, increasing full retirement age again, similar things that they did back in the 80s, you know, increasing the the 6.2%, whatever that is, it's gonna have to be a combination of approaches. Um the other thing is I would off also ask, well, because a lot of people don't understand that are you still working? Because if you're working and you earn over $24,480, then you may not be able to do that. But if if we're talking to someone who says, I'm I'm retired, I'm just gonna go ahead and take the benefit, I would be asking, let's step back from that because definitely for definitely if you're the higher earner and you are a couple, that wouldn't be my first choice, especially if you have other assets. And when we work together, we look at, you know, you know, I have a retirement questionnaire that has a whole lot of questions about, you know, if someone says, I want to look at a social security analysis, and I do have a social security report that I generate, I don't want to do it if all I know is your social security benefit amounts and your ages. That does you no good. It does, it's an absolute disservice to do one that's a free one online or something. That does nothing for you. I want to know what assets you have, what the income need is, what types of assets they are, what your goals are. Um, you know, if you have other, if you have children. I mean, there's all kinds of things that go into that. And one of the things I would look at and you look at, Brad, is what types of assets are they? Because if you have a pension or you have uh, you know, a lot of pre-tax qualified assets, I would probably steer toward bridging the gap and delaying social security a little bit and drawing down those pre-tax assets earlier in retirement so that you're not can they're not continuing to build as much because I'm already calculating RMDs in my head.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

Yes. Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

So I'm thinking, okay, this can be continuing to increase when at some point, whether it's 73 or 75, depending on when you're born, um, you're going to be forced to take RMDs at some point, and then it becomes a ripple effect of potential consequences. So a portion of your social security benefits could be taxed, whether you like it or not. And no, the social the senior deduction, the new senior deduction, while temporary only through 2028, did not eliminate Social Security taxation. It is perhaps a byproduct for sure. It's a it's for eligible individuals. It does reduce taxable income, but it doesn't eliminate having to do go through the calculation to determine how much of Social Security benefits show up as part of AGI. It also can affect Medicare premium. So again, this is the things that we think about when we're looking at claiming strategies. We're like, okay, how do we create that income need the most tax-efficient way possible?

SPEAKER_03 41:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Because by delaying Social Security, you're going to obviously increase it. You're going to increase, you know, yes, the cost of living adjustment is going to be the same, but the dollars that are going to uh increase it because it's bigger are going to work better. And we've talked about how healthcare inflation, you know, Medicare premiums, I mean, just Medicare premium from 2025 to 2026 went up 9.7%. That's really what we're looking at, projecting about an 8 to 10% increase on Medicare premiums alone. You have to be thinking about that. And I don't think people really think about how much, and that's coming out of your social security check, right? Or your deposit. So these are the things that we think about, right? As we're looking at claiming strategies of all these things. Are you the higher owner? I love it. Are you, you know, what is the long-term goal? The long-term goal is getting you to the safest, you know, secure income and making sure that we don't, you're not being eroded by taxes, you know, and let's face it, you know, yes, the one big beautiful bill made permanent these lower tax rates. Permanency is really only who controls Congress. So we you have to look into the future and say, okay, do we want to put all our all our eggs in that basket and really call this permanent? Or do we want to make sure that we're at least hedging our bets a little bit to make sure that maybe we do have a little bit of maybe, you know, we have time to do some Roth conversions or something before retirement so that we have spread our risk out a little bit. We've delayed social security so we have some of that that's a that's more guaranteed lifetime income. So all of it goes together. Um, and people say, well, another reason they say I'm gonna file at 62, I'm gonna be traveling, I'm gonna be whatever. But then they don't take into consideration, yeah, but later on, those health care expenses can get you. And they don't think about that inflation, that the health care expenses being expensive. And okay, what happens when the first spouse passes? And do we, you know, have we thought about the real tax impact and the health care expense impact to the surviving spouse? Spouse. So all of those things go into how we really look at when should we claim social security. It's not so simple when you think of all of those things.

SPEAKER_04 44:10

I agree. And I I wanna I want to shift from what I was originally going to talk to you about because uh time always flies when we're having fun. We've got like seven minutes left. So I want to do this because people are probably thinking of a lot of questions as we started bringing this up. If you have questions, just call us at 866-780 SAFE. That's 866-780-7233. Or go to Ozarksretirement.com, click on contact us. You'll find a link to how you can subscribe to the podcast. You'll see a lot of my videos on there. A lot of them are with Heather. And so and you'll see her on our website. So you can go there anytime, Ozarksretirement.com. Just click on contact us. This is Brad Pistol, your host of Safe Money Radio. I'll be right back after this informative message.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Hey, it's Glenn Beck. Can you feel it? America's pride is on the rise again. And right here in the Ozarks, the same pride lives on in how we protect our families and plan for the future. That's where Brad Pistol, president of the Ozarks Retirement Group, comes in. Brad's a certified financial fiduciary, and most importantly, a trusted neighbor who's helped countless Ozark families find financial independence. Call Brad Pistol from the Ozarks Retirement Group. 417-581-9222. That's 417-581-9222 or Ozarksretirement.com.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

Now back to more Safe Money Radio with your host, Brad Pistol.

SPEAKER_04 45:35

Hi, this is Brad Pistol, a retirement income certified professional. And if you're wanting to learn how to keep your money safe and to last the rest of your life, you're listening to the right show. We are Safe Money Radio right here in the Ozarks. Now let's get back to the show. So,

The Tax Torpedo From RMDs

SPEAKER_04 45:54

Heather, let's do this. I try real hard not to jump deep, deep, deep into the weeds on radio, especially because people are driving and doing different things and we don't want them to have a stroke while while they're out driving. But some people are sitting on their couch or they're riding their lawnmower and they've got their earbuds in and they're listening to a podcast. I want to jump into the tax planning side on one question because I want people to understand just how many different elements come into this, like you're talking about. So, you know, we both spend a lot of time around Ed Slott, America's IRE expert, who says over and over and over again, he's pounded like a drum into our brains. It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep after paying taxes that counts. So when someone rushes in and says, Yeah, I've listened to enough research, I'm starting at 62, I want to get all the money I can. That's when I go, well, hold on a second. You may not be getting all the money you can if you start at 62, because you may in essence trigger all kinds of other problems that are going to come back in and take the money right back away from you. You're not even gonna get it. So I want to talk about that for a minute because you said when someone asks you, Should I start at 62? You first come up with all these questions, and so do I. Are you married? How old is your spouse? How much younger are they than you? Do they have a retirement benefit or record of their own? Because I'm thinking about as you're saying, maybe they need you need to plan on deferring your benefit as long as you can because it's the higher end earning spouse and you need to care for your spouse and pass on the higher benefit. But there's all these other things too. So let's go with the tax planning side and I'll turn it over to you to wrap up for us. Let's say they do have retirement assets. Let's pick one easy one. They've got a 401k.

SPEAKER_05 47:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 47:33

And it's traditional, not a Roth, it's traditional. And they've got the option to start their Social Security at 62. Let's say their spouse is four years younger, 58. Pretty close in age, but a little bit younger, which is normal. Male's older, female's younger, she lives longer, he dies first. That's our stereotypical situation. He's thinking, I'm ready to be done, I want to start Social Security at 62, but I don't want to be completely done. I'm just tired of this full-time career. I'm gonna work part-time and I want to start at 62. Well, then that starts the issues of the income limitation that you mentioned mentioned, the 24,480. You can't go above it or they're gonna withhold one dollar for every two dollars. Why might it be a good idea to start drawing down a tax-deferred asset like the 401k? Instead, start taking withdrawals from it and let the Social Security roll up because of things like paying taxes while they're on sale. If they deferred it all the way out to age 73 before starting RMDs, they've built up a huge tax problem. Talk about how the RMDs from that can this talk about the Social Security taxation, fi 50% and 85%, and how that can mess that up on down the road.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

Yeah, I mean, and it yeah, and here's the thing that you're taking, if you take the Social Security, you're taking a 30% cut by taking it before retirement age. It's it's you know, 67% less than taking it at 70. But here's the thing, you know, you're taking it less, so presumably even before you hit RMDs, you're having to take more of the IRA to supplement to make meet the income need. So then you just without really knowing it, or likely then adding more taxation, not only of the IRA, but now your more of your social security has become taxable. So it becomes this never-ending cycle of oh, had I done this differently, had I instead bridged whatever gap I had that I wanted to have. Maybe I want to, you know, work, like you said, you know, you know, have maybe less earnings now. Um, maybe bridge the gap with IRAs because I'm I'm drawing it down now, but I'm letting that social security continue to grow. And then I don't have to worry about the earnings limit necessarily, you know, because you get into the earnings limit, it's becomes a to me, it's a pain to try to stay under that or get with benefits withheld, which we should note, we should have a conversation about that on our next podcast. But um, it just becomes the more you let that grow, the the it, it, you know, I had a I had a call, and I know we're getting ready to go, but I had a call where someone said, Well, oopsie, we never did that. We took our social security benefits early, and now my client is they're starting RMD, they just had their RMDs in 2025, and now they're triggered for Medicare income-related monthly adjustment amounts. What can we do? Well, now they're in a pickle because they can't really do a whole lot. There isn't there's not a whole lot of Hail Mary's at that point, except for qualified charitable distributions. That was the only thing that could save them because um they can't stop their RMDs, right? But they can't offset them with QCDs. Any any deductions they get are after the fact. Like they can't, you know, Medicare premiums are based on modified adjusted gross income, so before deductions. So that's why you want to think be thinking forward thinking. You know, when we ask what the assets are early in retirement and before Social Security gets claimed, it's be for a reason because we're already calculating out early what those RMDs could look like. Because it has a it it becomes what what we call a tax torpedo. Well, I have to the taxes are taking this out, so now I got to take more out to fill that income gap, and it becomes an ever, you know, a never-ending cycle. And then it becomes, oh gosh, you know, these these brackets are compressed, and now it's pushing me into other categories of of issues, social security taxes, Medicare premiums that are higher than the standard premium. And it becomes this thing that people don't anticipate unless they're working with someone who understands all of the potential ripple effects of just a simple simple thing. Oh, I'm just gonna take it at 62 because I I want to. You know, I'm gonna travel more, and that's the way I sh think I should do it. Because I've always been taught that I should not just take, I should just wait to take IRAs until I'm forced to. That's has always been the mode of thought. But now it's we need we need to rethink that.

SPEAKER_04 52:01

I call it the ever-bleeding ulcer. I use an example of children who maybe aren't educated about tax planning, and mom and dad leave them uh an inherited IRA, and they realize, oh, there's a 10-year rule, I have to take the money out. Well, I'll take it out. Did you take taxes out of that payment? No, I'll deal with taxes next year. So they take a distribution, they deposit it, they go spend it. They buy the house, the car, take the vacation, do all these things. And then next April 15th shows up and they're like, hey, you owe taxes on that distribution you took from mom and dad's IRA. Where are you gonna get it? Oh, well, I don't have it, I spent it. Well, okay, I'll take it from the next IRA distribution that I have to take. And it never stops because they don't prep the prepay the tax or withhold it. And then next year they're gonna know the tax, they're gonna they're gonna keep doing it until they bled that all the way out and there's nothing there. And the same thing can just happen with standard retirement planning. If you defer and defer and defer, start social security really early, then you have these massive RMDs, and that can, as we talk about all the time, it can make your Medicare premiums jump, it can make your Social Security taxation jump, it can make federal taxes jump, state taxes jump. And then what happens if there is a divorce or one spouse passes? Because one spouse is gonna pass before the other 99% of the time. Now you're in a single tax bracket, but those RMDs don't stop. And so now that creates even more taxation and even higher premiums. So friends, we're we're out of time. We've got to cut the show for the day,

Final Takeaways And How To Reach Us

SPEAKER_04 53:20

but this is why Heather's gonna be on throughout the year. This is her third time on, she's gonna be on six or seven times because we need experts like this who help clients all across the country who know this stuff inside and out. So, Heather, thank you so much for just talking off the cuff today. Spur of the moment, here are some different things we're dealing with. There's three topics we didn't even get to, and you mentioned one we need to talk about next time, so we've got our next show taken care of. So thank you for joining us today. We are gonna have you back on again here in about a month, and this show is gonna air in about mid-May, and then we'll have one air again in July. So thank you for joining us today on the show, Heather. If you're listening and you want more information, just call us anytime 866-780-7233, or go to Ozarksretirement.com and click on contact us. Well, I'm about out of time, and I would like to thank you for listening to Safe Money Radio. If you're serious about your financial future, give me a call, and together we'll get your retirement savings on the fast track to accumulation while reducing exposure to market losses. Thanks for listening, and until next time at the same time, I'm Brad Pistol, reminding you to stay safe so you can step into a secure future.

SPEAKER_06 54:37

Safe Money Radio!

SPEAKER_01 54:41

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SPEAKER_06 55:12

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SPEAKER_01 55:18

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