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Safe Money Radio with Brad Pistole
Safe Money Radio host Brad Pistole is a nationally recognized Financial Professional who specializes in planning that protects principal from stock market volatility and creates guaranteed lifetime income. Listen here to receive insights from Brad and hear what he has to say regarding retirement income planning.
Safe Money Radio with Brad Pistole
American College of Financial Services (Horizons Conference): Part 3
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When the market moves, your account balance may swing, but the factor that can quietly rewrite your retirement is taxes. We’re back at the American College of Financial Services Horizons conference with three interviews that zoom in on the decisions that determine how much of your IRA you actually get to keep and how much ends up going to the IRS.
First, we sit down with Ed Slott, America’s IRA expert, to unpack why Roth conversions have become so complex and so important. We talk about the SECURE Act as a true game changer, the end of the old stretch IRA for most non-spouse heirs, and how the 10-year inherited IRA rule can create a giant taxable “cliff” for your kids. Ed frames it clearly: Uncle Sam is a special kind of joint owner, and timing your tax payments when rates are low can be a powerful way to reduce future RMD pressure and build more tax-free income.
Next, Jeffrey Levine breaks down the difference between tax preparation and tax planning, and why modern financial advice keeps moving toward proactive, forward-looking strategy. We dig into continuing education, the value behind the TPCP designation, and the real goal: the lowest lifetime tax bill. That includes the hidden costs tied to income like IRMAA Medicare premiums, phaseouts, and other triggers that can make your effective rate higher than your bracket suggests.
We close with John Manganaro of The Daily Upside on the human side of retirement planning: caregiving, long-term care planning, widowhood, and why empathy and pacing matter when families are under stress. If this helped you think differently, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find smarter retirement planning.
To learn more about Brad Pistole and the Ozark Retirement Group, please visit www.ozarksretirement.com
Welcome And Horizons Preview
SPEAKER_08When the market goes up, you don't go up. When the market goes down, you don't go down. Safe Money Radio, I safe down.
SPEAKER_05Welcome to Safe Money Radio with your host, Brad Pistol. Brad is a retirement income and tax planning certified professional, primarily serving clients in the Midwest, but he's sought after nationally for his expertise in helping people secure their retirements. Mr. Pistol is a licensed life insurance professional in approximately 20 different states, and he specializes in working with people who are near retirement and those who have already retired with wealth management, income planning, and asset protection strategies using life, health, long-term care, and annuity insurance products.
SPEAKER_01And now, here to talk with you about securing your retirement, it's your host, Brad Pistol. Well, hello, everyone.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much for joining us again today on Safe Money Radio and the Safe Money Radio Podcast. We are so excited to bring you part three in a series of four parts where we have been sharing with you the interviews that I recently did from Orlando, Florida, at the American College's second annual Horizons event. It was sold out. There were financial professionals and financial organizations there from all over the country, and it truly was an all-star event. Now, if you've been listening, you know that on the show in past weeks, we have already had people like Jamie Hopkins, Dr. Wade Powell, David McKnight, Don Graves, Gene Chatsky, Lindsay Lewis, and Heather Schreiber. And today we're gonna continue with some of the best there is on the planet regarding financial planning. We're gonna start off today's show with my interview with my good friend, America's IRA expert, Ed Slott. He's probably been on the show more than anyone else over the years. I've been training under Ed since 2009 when I first attended one of his conferences. He is a CPA, probably the nation's most well-known and best known CPA. There's only one person called America's IRA expert, and it's Ed. He's the founder and CEO of Ed Slotten Company. This is the best training group for financial advisors regarding IRAs, 401ks, and tax law in the country. And I've been a member for 16 years now. So we're so grateful to bring you this interview from Horizons, where he was a keynote speaker and a class breakout teacher from America's IRA expert, Ed Slotten. Listen closely.
Ed Slott On Roth Conversion Stakes
SPEAKER_03Well, thank you so much for listening or watching, depending on what you're doing today. We're here at the American College at Horizons, year number two, with America's IRA expert. We saved the best for last, Ed. You're number 13 interviews for today. 13? That's not good. Well, it's it's fantastic. It's great to have you here. It's a showstopper. They turned off all the music and slowed everything down because everyone's listening to what you have to say. Well, it's great to be here. It's good to have you on the show. So, you know, we go way back. We've been doing stuff together for a long time. Yeah. I've interviewed you a lot. I've been in the Ed Slot group, the Master Lead IRA Advisor Group for a long time. And how many years? Do you remember? Sixteen years. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06You've you've uh learned a lot, and uh I encourage other advisors to make that commitment to their clients.
SPEAKER_03Well, I will say this you know, we were just together the 10 days ago or less in Vegas. We just did it. And uh there's always something new that fascinates me. When we were there, in the middle of our book and our elite manual, we had fifty different questions to consider whether or not to do a Roth conversion. And I think you said there were sixty and you whittled it down to I was writing, I don't know, did you see my handwritten notes how I say I began it?
SPEAKER_06I showed it on the screen. Oh, yes, we put it up on it. I started writing, I'll do something because we had the new law, the ABBA, not ABBA, the band, ABBA, the one big beautiful bill act. And I said, you know, we have to put that into the Roth consideration because you have other items. You had the senior deduction, the enhanced salt deductions, other deduction, it were low rates extended, so it had to go in the mix. So I was just writing something down. Oh, what's one, two, three, four, five? It was just on a sheet of paper, and then it was six. Oh, yes, then I was starting, it was all on one little legal pad like that.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And then I was in the margins, then I was in here, and then and then when I got up to, I was at like 23 or 24, I said, you know, I better go on to the computer and start typing this out because it just never ended. And I think we were up to 60, and our team, Sarah, Andy, and I, and actually Ian said, you know, uh 50 is a better number. We will whittle that down.
SPEAKER_03So why why are there so many things to think about and to consider when it comes to whether or not to convert or contribute to a Roth versus tax deferred?
SECURE Act And The 10-Year Rule
SPEAKER_06Well, I think uh there's a lot of balls in the air, like I say, at programs now, the moving parts. You had this stacking of tax laws. Started with the Secure Act, which was the game changer. That changed everything about IRAs. Remember, before that we had the stretch IRA, that long deferral with beneficiaries, non-spoused children, grandchildren. Could go out 10, 20, 50, 70 years if you had a 10-year-old. It was a great asset. But the Secure Act killed that. As usual, Congress needed money, and they said, the heck with that. Let's stop that, which they did, and make it a 10-year period for all not almost all non-spouse beneficiaries, other than special ones that qualify for the old stretch, not many. And 10 years. That means for the average non-spouse beneficiary in year 10, they're going to have a 100% RMD on the whole shebang, all of that growth and snowballing and compounding, and it's all taxable. So we said, you know, there's got to be another way. And the we had the low rates, though, too, came in. And then we had secure too. And then the ABBA law. So I was finding I, as you know, I do a lot of consumer programs too. And even the die hard do-it-yourselfers that don't use advisors, they were throwing up their hands. They said, now there's too much going on. I really need, you know, it's at least a second opinion. They still like you know, figuring out for themselves, but there's just too many variables, too many factors to consider. And a lot of what comes out when you talk about a Roth conversion, so first we'll ask why a Roth conversion? Because two things. You had the stock market still have. I say had, have, we don't know what's by the time somebody hears this, it could be anywhere. True, right? Uh I almost feel like you have to date stamp it. But in general, the market's been way up. Way up. Which means IRA values are way up, which means Uncle Sam's share is way up. Remember, he's a partner on your retirement savings. I always say to people, he's a joint owner on your account. And and most when I say it to consumers, joint owner. Joint owner, like husband and wife 50-50, and I always say, oh no, no, no. Uncle Sam is a special kind of joint owner because he gets to choose what his share will be based on how much money Congress needs just when you reach in for yours. So we have a high market, which means high IRA values. But the opportunity is, thanks to the ABBA bill extending the low rates, we have historically low rates. So you put these two factors together, you have to start reducing. You most people have too much money in their IRAs. There's no tax risk diversification anymore. They have all their eggs in a potentially very highly taxable basket, if not in their lives for their children under the 10-year rule or grandchildren. So we have to bring these balances down. And one of the best ways to do it, first of all, the best time to do it is when rates are low. Right. You know my always rule, right? Always pay taxes at the lowest rate. You'll always save more money. But there's another part that comes with that. And I know you know it because you sat through our training for years. So it's always pay taxes at the lowest rate. And here is the stumbling block. Even if that means paying taxes before they're required. Yeah. The horror. I want to just sit and wait till I'm four screaming and kicking. And always take advantage of these low brackets, these low rates. So that's where Roth conversion comes in. If you can get these balances down at taxes are on sale historically low rates, remember this money, it's not if but when. This money will be taxed.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_06So that's why if you know you're going to hit the tax either you or your beneficiaries, get it now while rates are historically low. And I keep saying that because I can't see with our deficit and financial situation rates going lower. Rates will, uh in my opinion, can only go higher. Maybe they won't go that high because they don't want to shock to the system. But can you ever see them going lower?
SPEAKER_03Not at 32 point or 39.2 trillion dollars and soon decres 40. I can't see it going down.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I don't even know what the debt is. You're talking about the debt. 37, 38, 39, 40 trillion. All I know is if they have to round up to the nearest trillion, that's a problem. Yes. If you have that kind of debt problem.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_06And to me, the national debt, people say it has no effect on me. I look at it as a massive deferred tax on all of us coming home to roost. So the benefit of the Roth, going back to why is the Roth is so important, is it takes that off the table. You can pay taxes now and lock in these known low rates and start building tax-free. So your tax risk, you have some uh diversification. Less in taxable, more in tax-free. And you know my other always rule, tax-free is always better. You always keep more of your money. And that's, to me, that's the promised land for everybody. Advisors should want consumers there. Consumers watching this should want to be there. What's the promised land? You keep more of your money and more of it tax-free.
SPEAKER_03What is the number one thing that will separate you from the retirement of your dreams?
SPEAKER_06Taxes. That's it. I mean, you know, there are whole I hesitate because there are uh you know, there are health issues and things like that. But taxes, to me, are the single biggest factor that will change your retirement because most people don't see it coming. They think, they don't think about it. They look at their account statements and say, Wow, the market, look how much money.
SPEAKER_03But it's not all your money. One of the things I think that always catches my clients' attention and they're surprised, they'll say, Well, look, you know, I've got three kids, and there's there's, you know, whatever the number is. There's six hundred thousand dollars in my IRA. They're each gonna get two hundred grand, and I'll say, No, they're not. Right. Well, what do you mean? Well, there's six hundred thousand in there. You have three kids, you divide that by three. Where's Uncle Sam's part of that? They're not gonna get to keep all $200,000 of that. And if it gets added into their forced income on top of their married filing jointly income, they may not get 50% of what you're leaving them. That 200 may be 100,000.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, what they don't realize, you said three kids? Three kids. So they have three beneficiaries. What they don't realize they actually have four beneficiaries. That's right. Now, if you told somebody, when you're filling out your IRA beneficiary form, list your three kids and Uncle Sam, your fourth beneficiary, they would never do that. Right. But they are doing it without even writing it down.
SPEAKER_03This is so good, Ed, and I know we're about out of time, but you're gonna be starting.
Low Rates Now Versus Taxes Later
SPEAKER_06We're just warming up.
SPEAKER_03It just it just we blinked, and there it went. Um, you're speaking to the group tomorrow, all the advisors and people here from all over the country. What are you talking to them about?
SPEAKER_06Well, I'm talking about an interesting thing which we mentioned, and I want to keep saying when I say we mentioned, like we're in the secret society, which we kind of are, the Ed Slot's Elite IRA advisor group. It's an advanced training for advisors that really want to do a better job for their clients. And Brad's been training and learning, again, not nothing to do with investments. This is all tax planning, lifetime of tax planning and beyond to beneficiaries to help your clients keep more of their money. Learning about tax planning. That's the separator, that's the differentiator. Most advisors are always looking for. What gives me a competitive edge? And you have two things going. You have the knowledge, but you also build that into the relationship. So I'm going to talk about that. If you want to separate yourself and do a great job for clients, see, you know, I always say this at the meetings. What's in your clients' best interests is always in your best interest. If you do a great job for clients, that's it. Everything else will fall in place for you because they'll be talking about you, like at our two-day program. We have that sign, right? Let's give them something to talk about. Well, you can't just talk about investing. Everybody does that. That's become commoditized. The the big value to clients is in the tax planning for a lifetime. Don't worry about what it costs now. Where do I end up later? And where they want to end up is what I call the promised land, more money and more of it tax-free. And I'm going to show them how to do that tomorrow using some of the new tax law. And an interesting part is right now we have already seen the first tax return under ABBA, the 2025 tax returns. Yes. Not everybody has filed, but most I'd say most people have filed, other than those who do extensions. And this will be your starting point, your jumping off point to say, here's how it's going to end up, you'll have better projections. We weren't sure about, I mean, I wouldn't say we weren't sure, but nobody really knew how it would come out on a tax return. They knew you were educated on the provisions, but until you actually saw it on the tax returns, uh you didn't really know how all the pieces fit together. Now you have a good guide, a good jumping-off starting point, because this return is different from all the ones in the past years. More people itemizing, taking advantage of these new deductions, and you have a better guide to do better planning going forward.
SPEAKER_03That's that's so good. And I'll say this people get too focused on what's this going to cost me right now? And you've always taught me said it's not what it costs you now, it's what it might cost you on down the road if you don't do this right now.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, trying to save money now when it comes to taxes, especially with IRAs, because this money will be taxed. Saving money now, in most cases, especially people with the largest IRAs, will cost more later. Very good. Ed, thank you so much for joining us at the American. Everybody should know about them the time. Look at this. This is an empty room. We are sitting here in an empty room, but here's Brad getting the message out while everybody's out, I don't know, on the beach, golfing, swimming, right? Yeah, this is the excursion, right? That's it. Brad is the only one that's on the case right now. So I congratulate you on your commitment to investments and uh commitment and investment in your own education to benefit your clients.
SPEAKER_03They're very lucky. Thank you so much. And I'll say this at our last uh two-day meeting that we were doing with all the advisors at the Ed Slot group. I walked over to some new members. I just thought it would be fun to do, and I said, Hey, I just have a question. You've been a member for a couple years. I said, Can you imagine the advice you were giving like four and five years ago before you were in the group? You ever think back to that with what you know now? And they go, Yeah, we we don't like to think about the advice we were given before we joined this group.
SPEAKER_06It's a transformation. It is. And it's a confidence builder. And people can smell confidence on you as an advisor. And that's how you attract the right clients and the right money and do the great job you want to do for your clients.
SPEAKER_03Ed, thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate you. You guys have a great day. It's always
Free Consultation And Book Offer
SPEAKER_03great when we have Ed Slot on the show. He probably said some things today that are making you think. And if you need our help in any way, we've been working with Ed for many, many years, just reach out to us. Our number is 866 780 Safe. That's 8667807233. Or you can just go to Ozarksretirement.com and click on the contact us button, request a free financial consultation, and I will personally reach back out to you. Ozarksretirement.com and click on contact us. Since I have to take a break, now would be a great time to call me for a complimentary copy of my best-selling book, Bulletproof, the Safe and Secure Retirement Income Plan. And I'll also give you a copy of my Safe Money Kit. My number is 866-780 SAFE. That's 866-7807233. Isn't it time to stop exposing your retirement to market risk? You're listening to Safe Money Radio with Brad Pistol.
SPEAKER_04Hey, it's Glenn Beck. Can you feel it? America's pride is on the rise again. And right here in the Ozarks, the same pride lives on in how we protect our families and plan for the future. That's where Brad Pistol, president of the Ozarks Retirement Group, comes in. Brad's a certified financial fiduciary, and most importantly, a trusted neighborhood who's helped countless Ozark families find financial independence. Call Brad Pistol from the Ozarks Retirement Group at 417-581-9222. That's 417-581-9222, or Ozarksretirement.com.
SPEAKER_03This is Brad Pistol, the host of Safe Money Radio, right here in the Ozarks for the past 15 plus years. And I'm so excited to announce the formation of the Ozarks Retirement Group right here in Ozark, Missouri. This team of advisors and financial professionals can cover all of your retirement income needs. We have financial experts who can help you with your Medicare, your Social Security Planning, your investment planning, tax planning, and of course, your safe and secure guaranteed lifetime income plan. We've been located in the same office complex for the past two decades, just one block east of Lambert's behind Simmons Bank. And no matter what your need is, we can help you. We are retirement income and tax planning certified professionals through the American College of Financial Services. Call us today for a free financial consultation. Our number is 866-780 SAFE. We are the Ozarks Retirement Group, and we are here to assist you with all of your retirement planning needs. Our number again is 866-780-7233, and there's always someone standing by to take your call. Hi, this is Brad Pistol, the host of Safe Money Radio for almost two straight decades. I'm a retirement income certified professional, and I love talking to you each week about developing your safe and secure retirement income plan. Now let's get back to the show. Well, welcome back everyone. We're so grateful that you're joining us on the show today. We've been sharing interviews from the Horizons conference in Orlando, Florida in May of 2026. And now we're going to hear from my good friend Jeffrey Levine. There are very few people on the planet that have Jeffrey's credentials, the letters behind their name. He is a CPA, he is a CFP, and he's a tax planning certified professional who actually helped create that program through the American College. It's one of the fastest growing financial designations on the planet. So he's a professor of practice at the American College, and he's right here in Missouri, over near St. Louis. He's the chief planning officer of Focus Partners Wealth and Focus Partners Advisor Solutions. He's a self-proclaimed financial planning nerd. He knows the things that 99% of other people don't know. And so he's just one of these gurus that you can ask anything to. So let's join the interview now and listen to what Jeffrey had to say about financial planning in 2026. So we're
Jeffrey Levine On Modern Tax Planning
SPEAKER_03coming back to you live here from the American College from the Horizons Conference, year number two, sold out. And this was gonna be our first guest today, but he's so famous, he got stopped so many times along the way that he's now like our fourth guest. So Jeffrey Levine, thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_02I didn't want to take away that early spot from someone else. That's uh very gracious to have me. Thank you. Wade Fowl jumped in your spot and it went great. He's a scholar and a gentleman.
SPEAKER_03That's it. So, Jeffrey, I know we've known each other for a long time. We have going all the way back to the Ed Slot days, probably 15 years ago, when you were an IRA technical consultant. And back then I used to always joke, but we front remember people would say, You can't stump him. Try to stump Jeff, try to ask him a question he can't answer. He's a nerd who'll have it figured out. So we're just so grateful for you, your work with the American College. You've done so many things to educate so many people like myself, and so we're just grateful for you being here with us today.
SPEAKER_07I uh, you know, I I feel like one of the most blessed human beings in the entire world. I wake up every day and I get to be the nerd that I am and share that with the world. So I I thank you for giving me an opportunity to share that because it is, it is my passion. And I early on in my career, I met someone who said, you know, it will take me a hundred hours to learn 95% of the material. It would take me another hundred hours to learn the next four percent. He's like, and that's enough for me. After that, I'm gonna reach out to somebody who said, You you're not gonna be happy until you like and he's right, like that's what I love. I love, I want to know that last one percent of the one percent, and yes, and uh, and and and then try to share that with the world, right? And and try to help as many people as possible.
SPEAKER_02And it is um it's so much fun. Well, you're a lifelong learner.
SPEAKER_03I am too, so I'm gonna start off with getting these letters. You've talked about letters behind your name and what they mean. Some of them mean more than others think, and I want to talk about TPCP later, but I want to. I only got to go to one class yesterday and maybe one or two the rest of the time, but I went to your panel, and so you talked about something that I find fascinating. So the difference in tax planning and tax preparation.
Tax Planning Versus Tax Preparation
SPEAKER_03What's the difference in a tax preparer and a tax planner?
SPEAKER_07Well, I mean, they're two totally different services, right? Like, and they're both important. So sometimes when people have these conversations, they sort of poo-poo or diminish the value of a tax return. You know, as someone who has prepared tax returns for many years, as a CP, like being a good tax preparer, making sure that people report their income and deductions and all this stuff in compliance with the law, remove headaches and try to minimize those nasty grams from the IRS, like that is really, really valuable. But it is largely a matter of recording history appropriately and making the right elections for things that have already happened. Yes. Tax planning is forward-looking. It is about what can I do today so that tomorrow when somebody is filing that next return, when they're doing that preparation, that bill in the future can be lower. And it's not that the same person can't do both, but oftentimes the same person does not do both. And typically, CPAs, you know, historically, they have been mostly tax preparers. They are like glorified historians, you know, in a way. History teachers. Yes, that's right. This is what already happened. And planners, by virtue of their, you know, the way they think and the way they operate, they are forward-looking. And so tax planning has increasingly become the realm of the financial advisor over the last 10 or 15 years, and that's only increased now as there are new educational opportunities for them, as there's new software opportunities for them. You know, 10 years ago, there were no real financial advisor-specific tax planning tools today. There are a litany of them, and they continue to bring new ones new ones on, seems like almost every quarter.
SPEAKER_03Well, let's talk about that for a minute because I think back in the day, if you went to a financial planner, it was mainly just I can make you more money than the next guy. That's what they hang their hat on. Well, I'll make you more money than them. But now, as you were saying on the panel, the clients want someone who is a tax planner, not just an investment guy, and they want someone that can talk to them about their RMDs, their QCDs, all these other things, instead of just saying, oh no, I don't do that, you need to go talk to your CPA. They want someone who does that in their financial planning.
SPEAKER_07They do, and it's actually a really interesting evolution of the consumer. So if we go back, and and just shows how society changes overall. 20, 30 years ago, people liked having a lot of professionals in their lives. They liked having their stock guy or girl, they liked having their insurance person, they like having their mutual fund guy or girl. It was like, I go to these person for just this. And then we started to see people go like, wait a second, this is a lot of work. Maybe I'll just go to like my financial planner, who started off being just, I can get you access to all these investments. Yes. Right? And now people are starting to say, wait, but can you also do this tax planning for me? Can you help me with my education planning for my children? Uh when should I be taking Social Security? How much should I be taking out each year? What are the things that I need to do in order to pass my assets efficiently and appropriately to the next generation? And the idea of having, you know, 10 people is no longer attractive, it's daunting, it's overwhelming. That's right. Yes. And so the consumer today really wants a more centralized, you know, sometimes we use the word quarterback or you know, personal CFO, but that is really what we're trending towards the financial advisor being the gatekeeper for all these things. And then where necessary, the financial advisor has the diligence and the expertise to kind of raise their hand and say, you know what, this one is a particularly thorny issue. We're going to bring in the expert here, and I have this great deep bench of colleagues I work with and so forth, and integrating that into the overall experience. That's what we continue to see, and really what is projected to be the evolution of the business over the next 10 or 15 years.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's a perfect segue then into what I want to talk about
Why Advisors Pursue TPCP Education
SPEAKER_03next. So, the tax planning certified professional designation at the American College, it's a little more than what, a year and a half into place now. Yep. And I was one of the first people to, I know I scheduled that last exam, the first 10. Ready to be done. Let's get this done. But it was so important. In fact, you beat me to it.
SPEAKER_02I did. I know we did an interview, you said I don't even have it yet.
SPEAKER_03I'm pretty sure you're qualified to uh finally got it. Yeah, yeah, that's good. But let's talk about that. Why is it important for continuing education? A lot of advisors, you know, they they pass their exams, they can tell you whatever, and that's it. There's there's no more studying after that. Maybe a CE course here and there, but why would someone want to step into something that's it can be kind of daunting to do the TPCP? I did RICP, TPCP, I just finished RSSA. Why is that important to have an advisor who continues his education and talk about TPCP?
SPEAKER_07So let's let's go with the first part of that for like continuing education. Things change so fast in today's day and age. If you are not someone who stays up to date, you're going to be lost, and the people you serve are going to be lost. So continuing education is so important. And, you know, let's just call it what it is, right? There are people, and for all the professional designations that are out there, whether it's TPCP, RICP, CFP, CPA, I can't think of a designation that doesn't require you to maintain some sort of ongoing education. But there are people who check the box and then there are people who continue their education. And what I mean by check the box is you can go online and there are web providers, and you could, if you want, you could do about 30 hours of CE in about an hour and a half. Yeah. You know, and you just take the test and you say, okay, good, and it's like, okay, I checked the box, I did my CE for the year, I still am this professional, but you didn't really learn anything, right? Then there are people who continue and who are lifelong learners. They are at a conference like this, where you know, you might get an hour of CE here, but you're sitting in a class for an hour, listening to someone for an hour. Yes. Uh you are collaborating with your colleagues. I mean, this is your this is a place of real learning, or they're going and they're finding the next true education package for them. And that could be a designation, or it could just be some sort of meaningful, uh, you know, meaningful ongoing education that doesn't have a designation component, that's fine. But it's about how do you stay up to date on the latest and greatest so that you can continue to advise those you serve in the best manner. So I think that's the first part. And then as far as the TPCP, um, you know, you started, and one of the things you shared, and I completely agree with, is that um, you know, look, I I have a lot of letters after my name, you have a lot of letters after your name. There are some I took, uh some programs I took hoping that they would be really great programs. Right. And they they weren't what I hoped for, to be honest, right? Like once you do it, you might as well keep it. And so, you know, they're still part of the uh you know, they're still the party alphabet soup. Yeah, but but then there are the ones that are really meaningful. And for me, uh it was really a matter of uh for me, it was really a matter of making sure that uh the TPCP was going to be a meaningful designation. You know, I think the financial advisor space is very crowded with meaningless designations. Yes. And so when I first had this idea, you know, now we're going back and forth four years ago, said like should it be a designation, and I kind of came to the decision like, well, I think it should be if it's with the right part. And to me, the right partner had to be an accredited academic institution of higher learning, and made the American college the perfect perfect team to work with uh on this. And I was able to bring the idea to them, and thankfully, you know, we had the conversations, they shared the vision and they said, yes, we want to we want to do this, we want to green like this, how can we make this happen? And it was a you know a two-year build to get this right, and the thing that kept me up every night during those two years, seemingly, was you know, are we covering the right material and are we covering it deep enough? And you know, I'm so grateful now, a year and a half in roughly, we've got, you know, we've had, I think, it was more than 1,500 people three or four months ago, so I don't know where we are now, but you know, go through the program. We've gotten the feedback that um, you know, it seems to be resonating with people, and the thing that's my favorite is I can't tell you how many times just over the last two days at the beginning of the conference, someone's woken up to me and said, Hey, you know that thing that you were teaching in this lesson? I had this conversation with a client the other day, and I did like that to me is like, yes, it's the actionable, the implementable. Um, that's what makes something like that valuable.
SPEAKER_03I think going through the course, you learn the things that you didn't know you didn't know. So that's when you have a conversation. For me, it was literally before I took the final exam. I came across a client that I've been working with for four years who was a huge business owner in another state, and they finally got the the disclosure that everything is selling, it's going through, we're about to close, and I've been working on it for a long time, and I thought, thank goodness it took several years for that to happen because I just went through all this in tax planning certified professional, and I know stuff that now that I didn't know then, which was so good.
SPEAKER_07And and is always, I mean, I learn something every day, and and I I don't see as many clients as you, right? I I used to be very involved with clients, now uh I have a luxury of my job of getting to spend more time learning and working with advisors, and every once in a while I still will be across the table from a client, but I can't imagine trying to stay up to date on everything and be an advisor and do all of this. It really uh you know goes to the point of you need you need to rely on others, right? And and having that good team around you to make sure that they're filtering out the things. And uh I learned something every single day, and it's uh and and it and it makes the day worthwhile, you know.
SPEAKER_03I want to talk to you about one more thing. We're going a little bit long, but you don't get to sit with Jeff for the fine every single day. So I took a note from you yesterday.
The Goal Is Lowest Lifetime Taxes
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna flip over here to it and say, okay, so you mentioned something when you were talking about paying the lowest lifetime tax bill. You had everyone raise their hand, you said you think taxes are going up or down. What was 99% of it? Oh, it's going up. It's going up, it's going up. But you said then, in in my words, then why are we you paying into tax-deferred accounts when you think the bill is gonna be higher in the future? But we're so geared to never giving the IRS our money before we have to. And you're suggesting, which I agree with, maybe we need to pay some taxes, prepay, get rid of RDs ahead of time before they come away.
SPEAKER_07Why is Well I you you hit you hit the nail on the head in the initial part of the question, which is it's about the lowest lifetime tax bill. You know, when um when uh when an affluent person comes to me and they show me a tax report and they say, like, oh look, look how little I paid in tax last year. My answer to them, or my response is typically, I'm so sorry you've gotten such poor advice from your from your professionals. Because low-income tax years are a terrible thing to waste. Uh, you know, you only get so many of them in your lifetime if you've done a good job saving, if you've done a good job earning. And so those low-income years are precisely the time when you do want to actively take down uh income. And you know, you could do it in any number of ways, but a Roth conversion is certainly one of the most popular. And I always liken the Roth conversion to the magic wand of making income. Like poof, I have income exactly when I want it. Like that's pretty powerful because I can choose to do it when I'm paying a relatively comparatively low rate. The idea that I'm just gonna push this liability off into the future, yeah, it may feel good today, but you know, it's it's like anything else in life. You know, the things that may feel good today, you know, can really hurt you down the road. You do something that's a little painful today, you know, pay that tax bill a little bit sooner, boy, it can really make life a lot better. It gives you more flexibility. And look, not everyone. You said, you know, 99%, I agree. Maybe it was 97%, whatever it is. Overwhelming majority of people. But if you're one of those one, two, or three percent of people who think like tax rates are gonna go down, I think, you know, however, however you justify it in your mind, right? Okay, then maybe that's not as big of a concern for you. But if you believe that tax rates are going to go up, and you believe that your income is going to be somewhere similar to where it is today, then it is very much a I use the expression, now while supplies last. Like, I don't know how long these rates will be here. Right. I don't think they'll be here in 2050. I don't know whether it's 2028, 2030, 2035. I don't know when exactly they changed, but even though we call these rates permanent, they're not. They're not permanent. No.
SPEAKER_03No, and that and that's just great advice because so many people aren't thinking forward. They're thinking their income's gonna drop because they're gonna retire, but there's social security, there's IRMA, there's inheritance, there's inherited IRAs, there's all these things that are gonna kind of kind of come into play.
IRMAA And Hidden Costs Of Income
SPEAKER_03They're gonna affect everything else. That's right.
SPEAKER_07And then even IRMA is a great example, right? You can do a conversion at 62, and it might be in a higher tax bracket, but it might be more effective than doing a conversion at 63 in a lower tax bracket because at 63, now you've got IRMA when you reach 65. You know, so ultimately it's all about your tax rate. And your bracket is one input in your rates, but it is not the end-all and be-all. It's ultimately about all the costs that are tied. I mean, uh it's it's the credits that get phased out, it's the deductions that get phased out, it's your surtaxes that get triggered, it is your Social Security that becomes taxable, it's the Medicare Party premiums you talked about. It is uh it's not even things that are things that are even related to taxes or whatnot. Think about somebody repaying student loans. If they're on an income-driven repayment plan, part of their payment is gonna be determined based on how much income they have. If you lower your income, you lower your student loan repayment. If you increase your income, you increase your student loan payment. That is still a cost tied to your income. It's gotta be looked at in totality, and that's another reason why you have to make sure today that you know somebody is doing that tax planning, someone with the right tools, with the right knowledge, with the right expertise, who's gonna look at the entire picture.
SPEAKER_03Friends, thank you so much for joining us and for listening. That's why you listen to a CFP and a CPA and a TPCP who knows all aspects of it, but this is also why you come to the American Company. American Colleges Conference, the Horizons Experience is what we're learning about to hear from people like this. So, Jeff, thank you so much for joining us today and for taking the time to go five. Well, friends, we're gonna take a quick break. If you need our help, just go to Ozarksretirement.com, request a free financial consultation. Just go to Ozarksretirement.com, click on the contact us button, and we'll be back in just a minute. Well, I must take a short break. This is Brad Pizzole, and you're listening to Save Money Radio. Let's pause for some exciting announcements.
SPEAKER_04America's pride is on the rise again. And right here in the Ozark, the same pride lives on in how we protect our families and land for the future. That's where Brad Pizzole, the president of the Ozark's retirement group, comes in. Red is a certified financial fiduciary, and most importantly, Ozark family find financial independence.com.
SPEAKER_03This is Brad Hasdole, the host of Safe Money Radio, right here in the Ozarks for the past fifteen plus years, and I'm so excited to announce the formation of the Ozarks Retirement Group right here in Ozark, Missouri. This team of advisors and financial professionals can cover all of your retirement income needs. We have financial experts who can help you with your Medicare, your Social Security planning, your investment planning, tax planning, and of course, your safe and secure guaranteed lifetime income plan. We've been located in the same office complex for the past two decades, just one block east of Lambert's behind Simmons Bank. And no matter what your need is, we can help you. We are retirement income and tax planning certified professionals through the American College of Financial Services. Call us today for a free financial consultation. Our number is 866-780 SAFE. We are the Ozarks Retirement Group, and we are here to assist you with all of your retirement planning needs. Our number again is 866-780-7233, and there's always someone standing by to take your call.
SPEAKER_01Now back tomorrow, Safe Money Radio with your host, Brad Pistol. Hi, this is Brad Pistol, a retirement income certified professional.
SPEAKER_03And if you're wanting to learn how to keep your money safe and to last the rest of your life, you're listening to the right show. We are Safe Money Radio right here in the Ozars. Now let's get back to the show. Well, friends, we're so grateful that you joined us today, and we're gonna have one more interview on the show. We're gonna interview a good friend of mine, John Manganero. He's a senior reporter at the Daily Upside in New York. We've had him on the show before. I've been on his podcast, he's been on mine, we've done interviews together, articles together. And John is known in the industry for being the type of reporter who interviews the brightest minds in financial planning. So he was a speaker at Horizons this year, 2026. And we want to hear what he had to say. We got to go to a couple of classes together, and then he joined us on the show. So let's listen to John Manganero, senior reporter at the Daily Upside. We're
John Manganaro On Caregiving Stress
SPEAKER_03so grateful for everyone joining us here. We're in the afternoon of day two at the American College's Horizons Conference, or the experience, as they've said. And I've got John Manganero with us. John, thank you for joining us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm glad to be here. It's my second uh appearance on your podcast, so I'm really thrilled to be back and love the work you do. I listen to many of the episodes. Not not all, you're quite prolific, but I try to listen to as many as I can. And you know, what a better place to you know record podcasts about financial planning and retirement issues than the Horizons experience. It's it's an amazing event.
SPEAKER_03I try to describe it to people like this. I'll say, you know, when you go to a professional sporting event, if there's two teams there playing each other, there might be four All-Stars there. That's right. Two on each team. Maybe if you're lucky, there'll be three or four. But when you go to an event like this, it's like going to All-Star Weekend. Like everyone that walks by, you're like, those are the most famous people, the brightest minds, the sharpest people, and they're everywhere here. Yeah, for sure. So it's like if you're lucky you get to go to an event and hear one or two great keynotes, there's 30 great keynoters here at this event. So that's what's fantastic. And so we're grateful for you being part of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course, I was thrilled to be asked to come back and uh moderate a panel that this year spoke about uh long-term care planning and the challenges that caregiving raise for people as they save and prepare for retirement. It's a huge challenge as financial planners and the public listening will very well know. Not a lot of great solutions other than you know starting saving early, really preparing for the challenge of long-term care. If you're thinking you want to shop for a policy, start early, start when you're in good health. These are some of the lessons we shared with our with our audience. And the one thing that I really was struck by, we were talking about research that was done by the American College of Financial Services, and they showed that the experience of being a caregiver, it both makes you more pessimistic about your future, which isn't great to see, but it also makes you more proactive and a better planner and a better consumer of financial advice. So I I thought that was very interesting.
SPEAKER_03It is, and you know, I know Heather Schreiber, who is going to be on after you, she talks a lot about the numbers of how many people are taking care of people right now, and that high percentage of how many of them are their own family members and what it does to take away from their own mental health, from their family, their marriages, their kids, their work, their finances. It's a pretty overwhelming thing for us to think
Widows And The Need For Empathy
SPEAKER_03about it right now. And so that leads me to something I know I didn't get to go to a lot of classes, and I know you were involved in things too, but I did get to go to one class and we were in there together, we walked in at the same time, and Gene Chatsky and Lindsay Lewis, uh, Kathleen Real were doing a class about widows, and a couple of things struck me. There are currently 11 million widows in the United States, and it threw me when they said that the average age is, and I thought it's gonna be 65 or 67, but what was the age?
SPEAKER_0059 and a half.
SPEAKER_03That's that's really 59 and a half, the average age. And then they talked about how 14 percent of married women have been widow have been widowed. And so there's just so much that can impact lives with stuff that's going on, and it's it I don't know, you talk to people all over the country, you interview people for all different kinds of scenarios. Um what kind of impact is it having for people to go through these long-term care issues? How is it infecting their families and their finances and that sort of thing?
SPEAKER_00It just it raises the level of stress. It it c it causes people the one thing I always think about is if you don't plan for these things in advance and you face these very stressful events, you're kind of making decisions and trying to respond in a very kind of chaotic and emotionally fraught way, and and we all know that's not an ideal to wait an ideal way to make good decisions. So that that's a huge challenge to to uh dovetail on the widow topic. That was a really eye-opening conversation, but just the number of widows, and I think the 14% that was like the overall, that once you get to age 70, I think it was something like 30 to 40 percent of people have been widowed, and it just goes up from there. Right. Women tend to live longer than men, so they they really face a big challenge uh going into that. Um sometimes they were financially savvy and they'd you know been sort of participating in the uh financial management for the family, and that's wonderful, but it's a really challenging thing for somebody to go from really depending on their spouse for financial sort of just um wellness, and then all of a sudden they're on their own. So I I thought it was really almost emotional and very impactful to listen to the speakers, one of whom was widowed, um, tell us about her experience and how she went through it. Uh she was a daughter, a PhD and a f and a CFP, so and even she struggled to go through it. So I think it just shows how how challenging that can be.
SPEAKER_03Um, well, you know, they came and grabbed me out of class early, but I did hear her say that, and I want to share it. I shared it with talking with Lindsay Lewis earlier who was on the show. She said, uh this Kathleen, who's you know, gone through being a widow, I have a PhD, I'm a CFP, I had my own practice. And when my husband died, I went crazy. I had a meltdown. And so it's her talking about, I learned all these things I didn't know how to do. Like I didn't know he did, and he took care of it. Like, how do you take care of the house? How do you maintain all these different things regarding whatever the what whatever it is that they each have their role? And I don't think we appreciate how we do have all these specified roles till someone's gone, and then you're like, oh, how do I do that? And my, you know, I've told you my father was a financial advisor for 50 years, and when he passed away, my mother was completely out of sorts. Like she never had to do anything financially. He did everything. So it's where are the passwords? Where's the money? What's an IRA? Where do I take my income from? The first terrifying thing was, how do I live from this month to next month? Where's the money coming from? And those are terrifying realities for people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. Um, really, what my big takeaway, I think after you'd stepped out, we were t they were sort of talking about the playbook for advisors about how to serve this community, and it's really and it makes a lot of sense. You have to do it with empathy first. And I think financial advisors really were solution or solution-oriented people. You you want to solve specific problems, and normally you think solving problems very quickly is the way to go. But they explained that you know, kind of actually taking a beat and slowing down and letting the grieving process take take place. And of course, there are deadline things with if there's a life insurance policy that needs to be followed up on, a death certificate needs to be filed. These things have a deadline. But when it comes to adjusting the longer-term plan, and especially if a you know a person is widowed at 59 and a half, you have time to adjust and prepare. And so it's it's really beneficial to not just rush and make, you know, make decisions, force the person, whether it's the husband or a wife who happens to be a widow or a widower, you know, that you do have time, and it's important to kind of lead with that emotional empathy and realize that you know it it's almost more a moment to listen and and sort of be there as an emotional support person in the place of just immediately doing financial stuff. So I thought that was quite insightful.
SPEAKER_03I love that. So I want to piggyback on that and say this, you know, having my own practice and having a team that deals with all kinds of things. One of the things that catches me off guard a little bit, until and when I hear things like this, it confirms it is people will call in and say, Hey, we just want to let you know, you know, we lost my spouse. Great. When I'm sorry to hear that, and I know that you're calling with a sense of urgency, but what when did he pass? And they'll say Friday. And it's Monday. And I'm like, okay, um, get through what you need to get through right now. There's gonna be a funeral, there's gonna be grief, and there's gonna be loss, and it's okay we've got time to deal with these things, but so much of the time they feel this sense of urgency of I don't know what to do next, and so I gotta call my financial planner and tell them. And we get the calls one day later, two days later, three days later. And a lot of times we're pumping the brakes saying, We don't want to make any decisions with you right now or even lead you in that direction. For several weeks, and they said in the class, part of what I heard, for months, six to nine months before you even start thinking through major changes. Um but for a lot of people, if they weren't connected to that financial planner of their spouse, and often it's the husband who selected the planner, they're gonna make a change. We know a lot of times they're gonna go pick someone different, and a lot of times that new person will tell them that they want to move them in a different direction.
SPEAKER_08So I don't know.
SPEAKER_03I think maybe we should encourage people who are listening who are going through this to say, take your time, take a deep breath. There's a healthy process to it. Some things need to be done, but some things don't. For
Widowers Remarriage And Estate Complications
SPEAKER_03sure.
SPEAKER_00Um one interesting thing, and while we have a bit of time, is the the way they've pivoted towards the end to talk about widowers' behavior and how that's different from widows. Uh obviously we're painting with a broad brush, but in in general, men and women maybe have tendencies that are different. And with uh widowers, one thing, they're much more likely to get remarried, which adds complication in the financial picture. Do you you know merge the finances with a new spouse? How do you combine potentially two families and their expectations about things like estate planning? So it kind of brings up a whole other sort of flavor of sort of planning after the death of a spouse. So I thought it was interesting to kind of compare men versus women, obviously painting with a broad brush, but yes, it was it was kind of a we were chuckling about the idea of um sort of men who are widowed, then they're they're often you know brought casseroles or brought you know food from the neighborhood, and and they are even sometimes, you know, they're just much more connected to potentially new partners. So I just thought that was kind of we were laughing about it in the room, but it's the it's the reality.
SPEAKER_03Well, I shared this twice already today, so I'll do it again. And this is shared by Joe Jordan. I've had on the podcast, he's uh board member with the American College. He says 80% of men die married. 80% of women die single. There you go. Men, and my dad always said, If my if your mother dies first, I'll be dead in three months. He couldn't take care of himself, cook food, wash clothes, he didn't know. He was either going to get remarried or he was gonna he wasn't gonna make it very long. And that's the male, that's the male syndrome there. Uh but more often than not, you know, dad passed three years ago, mom's still single, mom will probably always be single. That's the
Reporting On Retirement Trends Daily
SPEAKER_03way it is. So well, I know we don't have a lot of time, but I just ask you this your day job as a senior reporter, what do you do on a daily basis?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so senior reporter. The last time we spoke, I was with ThinkAdvisor, which is a wonderful publication. I spent four great years there working with a fantastic team of journalists. I had the opportunity to move to the Daily Upside, which is a much younger organization. It was founded in 2019. They brought me on uh just about four months ago to start a retirement publication for them. So that was a professionally, personally, it was a really cool moment to be invited to start something brand new. I love it. So I've, you know, bringing all the reporting experience I've had from my prior roles and just trying to create the best retirement content possible. That's why I'm here. You know, I've been recording sessions, reporting out, but really my my process is just to keep my ear on the ground. Um, you know, it's a little different from things like political reporting or sports reporting where it's very event-driven and sort of their headlines of the day. What I like about retirement is it's it's act it's it's not really like that. It's much more strategic, long-term thinking, more enterprise reporting. So I just keep my ear to the ground on places like LinkedIn to see, you know, the kind of research that the Blanchettes and Michael Fincas of the world are putting out, see, you know, what kind of maybe bad retirement advice is was out there. Maybe Dave Ramsey or someone said something that advisors take umbrage with and they start a debate on LinkedIn. Um, alternatively, what I love is just having my public information out there so people can reach out to me. Um, I get a lot of email, a lot of spam, but I get a lot of great pitches and suggestions for conversations. So being a retirement reporter, it's kind of a weird niche, but I I really love it. The process is great. Um, I'm not running around like a chicken with my head cut off trying to chase down the headlines. Of course, we do have news that breaks. Maybe there's a piece of legislation, maybe the president says something about taxes on Social Security, maybe there's a new problem that's emerged with Medicare. So there is a newsy element to it, but I really try to balance those two things.
SPEAKER_03Um, and how do people reach out to you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so my contact information, I'll I'll give it here. It's John at the dailyupside.com. So you can tell we're kind of in startup mode if there's only one John at the company. Yeah. So that I think that's pretty cool. Um I'm available on LinkedIn, you know, send me a connection request. I'm very open to connecting with people like that. Um my contact information is out there, and I think I said this the last time we were speaking. I welcome you know story ideas. I also welcome criticism, or if if I've written something that you that didn't quite hit the mark, please let me know. You know, I'm I'm always open for feedback. The vast majority of the feedback I get is is very positive. People find my writing, I think, to be insightful and timely. But every once in a while, you know, I'm I might make a mistake or slip up, and you know, I'm very open to that feedback.
SPEAKER_03So good, because all of us do, and we all have to realize that. So we're so grateful for you being here, taking your time to be a part of this community, to come to Horizons with American College and to share your expertise. So we look forward to what you continue to do in the future. For sure. We'll be back next year. Hey, thank you so much for joining us. Well,
Next Week Teaser And Closing
SPEAKER_03there you go, friends. There are great interviews with Ed Slot, Jeffrey Levine, and John Manganero. This has been part three in a four-part series. So you don't want to miss next week. Come back and join us. We're gonna have three more interviews with people that you know very, very well Dr. Jason Fickner, Dr. Michael Finca, and Dr. David Blanchett. Thank you for joining us today. If you need our help, just go to Ozarchretirement.com and click on contact us. Well, I'm about out of time, and I would like to thank you for listening to Safe Money Radio. If you're serious about your financial future, give me a call, and together, we'll get your retirement savings on the fast track to accumulation while reducing exposure to market losses. Thanks for listening, and until next time, at the same time, I'm Brad Pistol, reminding you to stay safe so you can step into a secure future.
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