Breaking the Silence on Menopause with Tamsen Fadal

In this episode, our conversation centers around menopause — something that affects millions of women worldwide yet is often misunderstood and under-discussed. Our guest, Tamsen Fadal, is an advocate for menopause education, sharing insights into the community for women she is creating, her upcoming documentary and book. From the lack of research to the ongoing stigma and limited understanding in both healthcare and the workplace, we explore the challenges women face during this life stage and the growing movement to provide better resources, support and early education. 

Join us as we discuss:

• Why there is a lack of understanding about  perimenopause, menopause, and their symptoms
• The lasting impact of misinformation, including the 2002 study that caused widespread fear about hormone replacement therapy (HRT)
• Why it’s crucial for doctors to be educated on menopause and how to find the right care
• The social and emotional toll menopause can have on relationships
• What companies can do to support women in the workplace and why a menopause policy should become the norm. 
• The role of community and how platforms, like Tamsen's, are helping women share their experiences and find support.

We also discuss Tamsen's Upcoming documentary with PBS: The M Factor. You can get more information here: https://www.tamsenfadal.com/the-m-factor

You can also pre-order Tamsen's upcoming book, How to Menopause here:
https://www.tamsenfadal.com/howtomenopause

More about Tamsen:
Tamsen Fadal is an award-winning journalist, menopause advocate, filmmaker and a content creator. She recently left her 30- year career as a news anchor to dedicate herself to rewriting the narrative for women in midlife.

Links and Resources:
Website:  TamsenFadal.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tamsenfadal/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamsenfadal/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tamsenfadal
Documentary: https://www.tamsenfadal.com/the-m-factor
Pre-Order Book https://www.tamsenfadal.com/howtomenopause

Enter to win a copy of the book at SheSpeaks.com 

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Transcript

Shedding Light on Menopause

Speaker 1 0:00

I think that sharing this information as quickly and as early as we can is vital, because at this point women's health often just kind of falls off a cliff after the mid-30s or after fertility. So I think that we owe ourselves that to keep that timeline going, because otherwise what are we doing? We're just saying like you're not really relevant anymore.

Speaker 2 0:32

Hello and welcome back to the show. We have a not to be missed episode for you today. Today, my guest is Tamsen Fadal. She is an award winning journalist, a best selling author. As a quick background, tamsen spent 30 years as a news anchor. She has been on this show before.

Speaker 2 0:50

Tamsen's back to talk about a new documentary. She has coming out a new book as well as a study that we jointly did. So let's start with the book. The book is called how to Menopause and it is coming out early next year. We are going to get a sneak peek into that. We are also talking about her documentary, the M Factor Shredding the Silence on Menopause, and that is actually premiering on PBS in October of this year. So you'll get a chance to see that.

Speaker 2 1:19

She interviews world-renowned experts on menopause and they talk about perimenopause, menopause and the symptoms, so that we can all get much more educated about this element of women's lives that could start in your 30s and can go into your 60s. We also talk about a joint study that Tamsen did with she Speaks and we had close to 4,000 women from across the country take the study and in that study we learned more from the people who participated about their menopause symptoms, their perimenopause symptoms, the impact on their life, on their personal lives, on their relationships and on work, very highly encourage you to check out Tamsen on social media. She has over a million followers on Instagram. She's also on TikTok. She's really just changed the way that I think about menopause and I know she's changing the way that hundreds of thousands and soon to be millions of people think about menopause. She actually was on this show before, when she was still a news anchor, but we talk about all of the things I just mentioned.

Speaker 2 2:36

If you or a woman you know is experiencing menopause or perimenopause, you think you might be experiencing that. This is an episode you will want to listen to. So with that, I'm going to let you hear my conversation with Tamsen. Welcome back to the show, thank you. Thanks for having me. We've done this before, but you have a really important new thing that you are working on, one that we've had a chance to collaborate a little bit on this work that you're doing. But I want to just give people a sense for who you are and your career, because you've had these different parts of your career and each has been successful in its own right. That's an accomplishment, like having multiple things that you've done. Can you tell us a little bit about your career up? You know that's kind of brought you to this point, so people get a sense for who you are.

Speaker 1 3:33

I started in news. Every time I say 30 years ago I'm like wait, is that right? About 30 years ago, right out of college, I was in radio for a year and then I moved into television news local news and I really I traveled around the country and then eventually around the world working for local stations as well as some of the affiliate networks, and I ended up in New York about 15 plus years ago and so I delivered news to New York. I put New Yorkers to sleep every night literally for about 15 years on the evening news and so it was one of those things that you go, oh, wow, okay, one year, two years, 10 years, 15 years.

Speaker 1 4:12

So it was a long time, but it was a career that feels like it went by in a blink now that I look at it and I really loved every day of it, every year of it, every city I was in. I love storytelling. I like interviewing people. I think you know that that is a passion of mine. I like how stories impact the world, how they make change, what they do to us, how they speak to us, and so I loved my career for a long time. And then the last few years, I started looking into a different story that affects about a billion women or so, and it really became a big part of my life and a big part of my message the content you started creating on social media was around menopause and what you know.

Speaker 2 4:56

where did you start with it? How has it grown? Because it's incredibly impressive how many people you speak to in this community. You've grown and the engagement you have with that community and I saw this firsthand when we did our joint survey. But talk a little bit about how you started creating the content around menopause, why you started creating it and then how it just kind of took off.

Speaker 1 5:24

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I was always kind of fascinated with age. As we were getting older I was always looking at like now, what now? What now? What do you do? You know all these people that were making these incredible pivots and they'd have this career and go to that career. And I was always fascinated that the older people got, the more peaceful they kind of got with their lives and they, it just felt like they had control like their hands on the ring, and so I was always looking at that and I was interested in that.

Speaker 1 5:47

And then I was interested about like advice that I would give myself if I were younger, like the things I wish I knew. I wish I knew that when I was 25, when I was trying to negotiate a job, or I wish I knew that when I was 30, what was I thinking? So I started doing a little bit of that content and you know, and just talking through it, cause I thought that was interesting, all the different generations that are on social media, right On one feed you'll have a 20 year old, a 32 year old, a 55 year old, a 72 year old, and I always thought that's interesting that we're all exchanging information. And then I had an incident at the television station one night in the studio during a live broadcast, we were on a commercial break and it was this kind of epic hot flash slash, heart racing, out of control, slash, probably panic attack. Now that I understand it, look back. I'm like am I having a heart attack? I couldn't even catch my breath. So from that moment on, went to a doctor, figured out, got a message in my patient portal that said you're in menopause, Any questions Like four words, and I'm like menopause, I'm still going for menopause, I'm 49. Well, lo and behold, that was smack dab, exactly when you really kind of fall into that. And so I started just doing some of my own research.

Speaker 1 6:57

I lost my mother at an early age. I didn't know what I could and couldn't do in terms of treatment options, solutions, what was out there, what was available, and I started doing interviews with different people, just kind of quietly, not a big deal, but just before I would go to work, actually before I'd go do the other interviews, I was doing these and then one day I learned that there are 34 plus symptoms of menopause, and I went on TikTok and I read them off and the response I got back was enormous of women like, oh my gosh, that's happened to me. I have burning tongue, I have an itchy skin, I have hot flash, and I was like what? And so that's sort of where it began, and I eventually moved over to Instagram and I'm both now sharing that information, and I'll just say that the response of the community is the reason we are where we are today. Like if I hadn't seen that kind of response or known that anybody wanted to have that conversation, I wouldn't be sitting here talking with you about it.

Speaker 1 7:57

I truly, truly believe that women have wanted to have these kind of conversations. They've been there wanting to have these conversations. None of us knew we needed to have. Some didn't know we needed to have them, where to start and how to not feel self-conscious and shame with it, and I think that that's the most important thing. Like we, really, we have to own the fact that it's not okay to feel isolated and shameful about this time in life, that our health concerns really, really matter, that it affects half of the workforce, and we need to talk about this younger, not when we're 50 years old, but when we're 25 years old, so we understand what's going on and it doesn't feel like this unbelievable thing all of a sudden that it becomes part of our life transition.

Speaker 2 8:39

I'll give you just one example. There's so many more people talking about menopause, which I think is really important. I mean, obviously it's still not accepted in all places. It's harder in workplace environments for women to acknowledge this. There's definitely still kind of an ageism element.

Speaker 1 9:00

I think that's just so and we don't want that to work against us either.

Speaker 2 9:02

You know, that's really important.

Speaker 2 9:04

Yeah and so. But you know, I saw somebody posting about how important it is when you're at, or how much bone density, for example, you lose during the perimenopause menopause timeframe, and how you should be doing like lifting weights way before you're kind of in the thick of it, as an example, and I thought women need to know this information, and not just women when they're in it, but before it. So when you think about the audience for the message, who is the audience in terms of age range, messaging around menopause and the impacts of menopause in terms of your health and your body.

Speaker 1 9:50

That's a good question. I mean, I do think it starts in the 30s. I think we have to have that conversation starting in the 30s. I think that we can't put this into silos and there's a couple of reasons for it. First, because part of the solutions is a whole body solution that we need to have. It's not just going to the doctor's office, get my hormones and that's the end of it. You can do that and that will definitely help. There's no question about it. If that's what you decide to do and that's the path you decide to take and that you know that's. That's what I have.

Speaker 1 10:17

I'm on hormones, but my lifestyle all around it has changed too. How I work out, how I sleep, how I pay attention to things, how I do my actual work now All of those things take part the stress levels I have, how much time I'm spending taking care of myself, not thinking taking care of myself is a luxury. So I say, in your early to mid thirties is when that conversation definitely has to start, because you want to be as strong as possible, you want to be in the we say in the prime of your life. You want to be as strong as possible, you want to be in the we say in the prime of your life. You want to be at the prime of your life, you know, during the prime of your life. There's no question about that to me.

Speaker 2 10:51

So you have a book that you can now pre-order and you will make sure to have a link to it in the show notes and the book you the book is is they can. People can pre-order the book. It's called how to menopause and that is coming out in 2025, but it's on. You can pre-order it now. You also have a documentary that is coming out sooner that people can catch and the documentary is called the M factor shredding the shredding, the Silence on Menopause. Can you talk about what is the message in the documentary that's coming out and it's coming out October 18th or 17th, october 17th, march 17th, yep and then what is the message in the book and who is?

Empowering Women Through Menopause Education

Speaker 1 11:38

it for? Yeah, absolutely. You know. It's funny because both of those things were kind of happening at the same time and I said, wow, we've got like a lot of these doctors, we've got a lot of information, we've got a lot of stuff that we have to cover. So I'll talk about the documentary first.

Speaker 1 11:51

The documentary has been an almost three-year now process of, you know, talking to women, talking to doctors, making sure we hit all the aspects of menopause. Making sure that women know it is not a sex, making sure they understand solutions hormonal, non-hormonal. Making sure we talk about the workplace because that is a big conversation, there's no question about that Making sure we understand brain health and how it affects us in the workplace, affects us in life. You know what happens when we're in menopause versus post-menopausal, which is the rest of our lives after you hit it. It was really important to me that we educate women. Women are really smart. They want the information, they want to know what to say to their doctors, they want to have a way to say listen. I watched this film. I heard a doctor say this is the thing I should be asking you and this is what I want, and so that was very important for us in the documentary and understanding how to have that as the tone. You know, pbs is our partner in that and PBS is where it's going to be aired PBSorg. It starts on the 17th and then you can check local listings all around the country depending on the city, and more and more cities are signing up and more and more people are signing up for hostings, which is real exciting, and so communities are. What we're also doing is licensing out the doc for free. Communities are. What we're also doing is licensing out the doc for free, but so that different communities can take it and show it in their community. So we have, you know, one doctor in Washington state that is going to get a theater and bring everybody together to the theater to sit and watch it together one afternoon. So I am so excited by that because we want to make sure that people have access to it. They can get their hands on it. They have access to it that there's no barrier to entry, right, when it comes to that. They have to be able to have that information. So that's the first part.

Speaker 1 13:38

The book came about and that's been probably just as long of a process, but writing has been my jam for a long time.

Speaker 1 13:45

I love it, but it was really important to me that people didn't feel like the information was difficult to digest, hard to understand, and so for me I kept saying this is an expert-driven, girlfriend-approved guide to menopause.

Speaker 1 13:59

I want to make sure this is that menopause manual that cuts through all of that chaos so you can take back control of your life, because I feel like we feel as though we lose control, we lose our confidence, we lose our understanding of what is happening to ourselves mentally and physically, and I wanted to make sure that it was understandable not just what happens in the doctor's office, but happens in the bedroom, the boardroom, beyond, and so it has a lot of different parts of your lifestyle. I don't believe that menopause just is here. I believe it impacts all parts of your life. It impacts your dating life If you're dating your you know relationships. It impacts whether you know what you're going to wear that day, what you're going to eat that night. It impacts a lot of things, and I think it also gives us a pause to take a look at where we are in our life. And I wanted to address all those things in the book and not just leave it in a medical sense, because I think it's so much more than that.

Speaker 2 14:50

So, starting with the documentary first, for people who are interested in learning more about menopause, the documentary will help give people an understanding of. Here is what you should be going and asking your doctor about. There's no one size fits all in terms of the solution. Right? I mean, I feel like the second. You ask a group of women about menopause and A their experience with it. B the solutions they're deciding to pursue. So if I watch the documentary, I will be able to get a better I'll walk away with a better understanding of yes, this is a personalized journey. Everyone's going to have their own experience. Here's what you should be asking your doctor. Here are the kinds of things you should be thinking about. So it's almost like a great way to prep you. Whether you're in perimenopause or you're in menopause, which I know you know, not everyone knows exactly where they are. Yes, just for that reason alone, the people don't even know where they are in the journey.

Speaker 1 16:01

Well, that that's. The whole point is that, you know, we started it out with some different voices, so women could be like, okay, that's me, that's me, that's me. We talked to real women in the documentary. We even talked to Audra McDonald in the documentary. She is a Broadway star who had put a very raw and emotional post up on Instagram about a year and a half ago and we reached out to her and she was so gracious with her time to talk to us. So we wanted to make sure that people understand that this happens to everyone.

Speaker 1 16:32

And then I think what was important with the documentary is that because there's such a lack of education and such a feeling that I don't know what to do I don't know what it is and I don't know what to do that we have to go back to the basics. We can't assume that everybody knows. We say the word menopause, but what does it really mean? What does it do to your sex life? What do you do if there's painful sex? What does it do to your mind? Why am I feeling depressed all the time?

Speaker 1 16:58

You know, we interviewed Dr Lisa Mosconi, a neuroscientist who does a lot of the research on women's brains and understanding how estrogen plays a part, understanding how lifestyle plays a part, understanding how race plays a part, you know, in how women are treated, and so it was very you know, we have a historian that we've interviewed for the documentary to take a look back as well to understand why there's such a lack of information and to understand a doctor's not going to know everything, because doctors weren't necessarily trained on this oftentimes, and so that was important for us to hit all of those points. So at least women know that we have to work on several different fronts to make sure that we get these answers and wheel in the conversation and change the narrative.

Navigating Misinformation in Menopause Education

Speaker 2 17:36

I really think it's a service to women because there isn't a lot of or historically, there's not a lot of information about this. I know that I have talked to my mom's generation and just listening to their perspectives. There was, I guess, some study that came out during the time when her generation was going through menopause that basically told them, for example, hormone replacement therapy will give you cancer. It was a study. Replacement therapy will give you cancer, like it was a study. So you have a whole generation of women who were told that hormone replacement therapy will give you cancer because this was, like you know, some study that was done. So now you have people like of a younger generation saying, oh, what was your experience, what do you know and what do you think about the end? It's so interesting. If you ask women, I think of that generation. They have it in their minds. I'm just giving an example, right.

Speaker 1 18:43

No, but women of our generation have that too, because we've been hearing that. So it has definitely trickled down. That was the 2002 Women's Health Initiative and that certainly wasn't really even to study that. So it has definitely trickled down. That was the 2002 Women's Health Initiative and that certainly wasn't really even to study that. And it's interesting, the study scared women. It caused a panic.

Speaker 1 19:00

I've talked to doctors that remember that day so well and they described that in the documentary. They were calling their office, saying like what did you give me? 40% of women that were menopause were on hormone therapy at the time. It went down to 4% and so when we look at like that is a single study that changed so much and it speaks to where we are today. And it also speaks to why we don't have the education, why we don't have advances, why we don't have the research dollars. You know why doctors aren't being trained about this in medical school and why women are confused.

Speaker 1 19:35

I was talking to somebody earlier today in our Facebook group we have a midlife Facebook group and she said look, I went into my doctor's office and I asked three different times if I could take hormone therapy and they said no, they don't feel comfortable giving it to me. This is a doctor that you trust, that you go into. They're not educated on it either oftentimes, so it's really important to find somebody who has studied and understands menopause, understands hormone therapy, feels comfortable talking about it, isn't afraid to get new information and look up new information and it's not saying like no, no, no, that's not, that's not, it Suck it up. This is just a normal thing in life, and so I think that all those things got me very enraged when I heard about them initially, because I've done a lot of stories and I've covered a lot of different things and nothing has quite affected me like this in terms of seeing what needs to be done and figuring out a way that we you know, that I can contribute my voice to the conversation.

Speaker 2 20:34

Well, and misinformation is incredibly dangerous, and you know, I'm sure that you cover this too but is there a sufficient amount of research being done for in menopause as it relates, Because so many women, well over half the population, will go through this at some point, right? Is it getting the attention it deserves? So how do you think the conversation is changing and do you see it changing?

Navigating Menopause in the Workplace

Speaker 1 21:05

I think it's changing. I think, look, there's a lot of work to be done. We're talking about a billion women in menopause by 2025 globally. We're talking about all these women, all the men that need to be part of the conversation. We're talking about not only talking to the women, but now I'm going back and educating the doctors and making sure that you know, the people that control the purse strings understand what we need in terms of research. So I think that, yes, we are hearing the conversation.

Speaker 1 21:34

If you're on Instagram or you're on Facebook or you're seeing some of the headlines, it's definitely out there. But do I think that everybody has all the accurate information? Absolutely not, because I think that it's changing every day, one, two to your point, to correct the misinformation, and for how long that was going on? 20 plus years. We have a lot of, you know, cleanup. We have a lot of you know of damage to fix, but it had to start somewhere Right, and so we're here today and what I've seen evolve in the past three to four years since, you know, since I started talking about this has been incredible.

Speaker 1 22:11

It's it's incredible, it's beautiful. I was in the dentist's office the other day and the dentist said oh, that could be menopause, and I was like what? Oh yes, I'm so glad you know that. So I Really Sure that's part of the documentary too is that there are dental issues that come during this time.

Speaker 1 22:28

Estrogen impacts all parts of your body and that's just the other thing. It's not just getting rid of handling, dealing with getting by the symptoms of today, it's future-proofing your body for tomorrow, because there are different things that happen during menopause that can impact brain health, heart health, bone health, and those are the three things where we find most of the big issues. Right, as we continue to get older, those are the big things that we worry about, and so I think that sharing this information as quickly and as early as we can is vital. So when we say how early, I don't know, while we're learning about puberty, we should probably also learn about the other side of this, which is that second puberty people talk about, because at this point women's health often just kind of falls off a cliff after the mid thirties or after their you know fertility, and so I. So I think that we owe ourselves that to keep that timeline going, because otherwise what are we doing? We're just saying like you're not really relevant anymore, right?

Speaker 2 23:27

Well, and we're living longer lives, right On average. We're living longer lives. Let's live them to the best of our ability. Let's not suffer.

Speaker 1 23:38

Let's not, let's not suffer through it all.

Speaker 2 23:40

And and when you just said that you talked about three things, that are three key areas the brain, the heart and your bone health.

Speaker 1 23:51

So skeletal like the skeletal osteoporosis is one of the biggest fears and concerns out there. You know, you see and this is what I think about often I came from the I'm an 80s child and it was like get skinny, lose weight, watch your calories, don't eat too much, don't have fats. Well, now it's eat fats, eat for your body, don't worry about calories. Make sure that you're feeding your body the right way and with the right things and you're looking at your microbiome and you're making sure that you don't have inflammation and you're working out to be stronger and you eat a lot of protein and fiber. We didn't talk about protein and fiber when I was in my 20s. I mean, it wasn't a thing. You know it was. Eat less fat, eat less calories. So you know we're learning more.

Speaker 2 24:46

And I think that that's really an important part of it all, because those all play into heart, brain and bone. So the conversation and just by virtue of the fact that you've got the documentary coming out in conjunction with PBS, so people will get a chance to watch this, you have the book coming out and with you know, with, I think, a great publisher, so you have a great opportunity to get this book in front of so many people who need it. I mean, you just mentioned that a billion women globally by next year, like 2025, that's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 25:17

I mean, I would not have assumed it was that high and so there's a need for this, there's more, there's going to be conversation. Hopefully that's changing. What about the workplace? How are corporations? I mean, I started my career at a big company and I had a lot of female leaders and mentors who I saw probably going through, you know, this stage of their life. I don't think I ever remember hearing a peep about this from an employee handbook standpoint Never it wasn't in the jail.

Speaker 1 25:58

The Menopause Society just released some information and they oversee a lot of different parts of this and doctors that are menopause certified. But talking about the workplace and talking about how to help employers, because it's very confusing. I went into my workplace a media company, over 200 television stations right before I left and I said I think we need a menopause policy. What did that mean? They were like, well, tell us what it is. And they were really working with me to figure out what it is, because it was. It hasn't really been a thing. Now the UK has been incredible about being so advanced in terms of understanding how to implement this in the workplace channel for there in particular. I think that here in the US you know it's it's it's company to company. It's going to be who who's in the lead there at that company to bring that conversation to the forefront, and I think that's going to be really important. I think we're going to see this needle move quickly. I don't think we've seen it do that yet.

Speaker 1 26:55

I wrote an op-ed for a Harvard Business Review about maybe a year ago, maybe less than that, and we were hard-pressed to try to find some companies that were some did, but willing to talk about it, explain it, tell us how the policy worked, the few companies that stepped up we were so grateful for, but there's two things that we want out of it.

Speaker 1 27:12

We don't want it to hurt women. We don't want it to hurt women being advanced. We don't want it to hurt women in the workplace. We do want women, though, to be understood in the workplace, because women oftentimes, at this point in life, go into work, have these kinds of symptoms, don't feel confident depending on what the symptoms are feel like it's impacting their life, feel like they're worried about getting a promotion, sometimes leave the workplace altogether as a result of not necessarily understanding what's going on with their body or not being able to deal with it. So we want to get to a place that we're helping these women stay in the workplace, be productive in the workplace, feel better in the workplace. Otherwise, I think you know we really we hurt ourselves as a whole, and with half of the workforce in this age or going to be in this age, it's really, really important.

Speaker 2 28:00

Yeah Well, and since the age range is so broad, you have so many. You likely have employees who are going through this at some stage. So, just quickly, we did a study together, we did a joint study. I mentioned earlier that I was so impressed with the engagement in your community of people who follow you and are very plugged into your message. We had so many of those women take the survey and we had some great insights and some great findings. Is there anything in particular that you found that was like a strong takeaway? We had, I think, 3,000 plus women who took the survey. What was a maybe interesting insight for you from that study?

Support and Education in Menopause

Speaker 1 28:54

You know I always love relationships, whether it's we're talking about personal love, relationships, work relationships, friendships.

Speaker 1 29:00

I think a couple of different things.

Speaker 1 29:01

I think one the need for community, which I think speaks to exactly why we're seeing this kind of engagement online and why women are talking about it and why they're sharing, and the fact that they need a support group and they need help with that and they want to share and they want to have somebody who listens, because a lot of them feel very isolated.

Speaker 1 29:20

So community is a big part of that conversation. I think the other part and this was a part I was really kind of honing in on and focused on, and I know when you and I originally set out to do this I'm so grateful for you for it, because I think it's another way women feel like they're being heard and they have a voice in the conversation. But the negative impact on the quality of intimate relationships and support from their partners is something that you know we have yet to really dive into, but it is something that the survey found and I think it's something that is going to need more conversation. We've got to get through helping women, you know, in this area, first because they've got to feel better before anything else, but to be able to have that kind of support and intimate relationships and talking about men in this conversation has got to happen next.

Speaker 2 30:04

I love that you said that because, yes, well, next, I love that you said that because, yes, while half the population is going to go through this very personally, because part of the circle of what a woman goes through the other half the population will have some impact. They will have a mother, a sister, a significant other, a friend who is going through this. And to the point you made earlier about three key areas, that it impacts the brain, the heart, the bone structure, the skeletal that is pretty much who we are as human beings. I mean. It impacts everything. So having education for men, too, I think, is so critical.

Speaker 2 30:51

Well, tansen, I am so grateful that you are doing this. It is a service. As I said, it's a service to women, it's a service to the people who love women, right? Because if you've got a woman yourself going through this, you love someone who probably is going through this. There's somebody in your life you care about going through this. So we will make sure to have a way for people to find the documentary, to find the book. If people want to follow you, what is the best way for them to do that?

Speaker 1 31:23

Sure Tamsyn, fidel, on all handles, and we have a lot of free resources if people need them to just, you know, symptom trackers, things to walk into your doctor with, making sure you know we help you with diet and exercise and wellness and food and nutrition and whatever it is you're looking for. You know, I think a lot of those things change during this time, like my understanding of food and all that's changed. So anyway, I put anything up there that I think about and so if it's helpful to you, let me know. And yeah, I'm so appreciative. Your questions are always so thoughtful and thank you for taking the time, my pleasure.