This week we talk through the differences between memory and recall (and which one of can do which), discuss how Halloween and other holidays have changed since having kids, and give an updated look into family photo tips and tricks.
We get to a handful of voicemails again this week, ranging from how to handle complex family dynamics to pricing your services as a self employed creative. We retell our engagement story and do our best to provide insightful advice how how to move on after breaking off an extended relationship.
Also, we truly appreciate you all for helping us to reach 500 ratings and reviews on Spotify! So buckle up; it's going to be a memorable ride. Let's start Oversharing!
If you've got a voicemail or want our (likely unqualified) advice on something, hit us up at the Speakpipe link below!
http://www.speakpipe.com/oversharingwiththeoverbys
If you'd like to email us you can reach the pod at oversharing@jojohnsonoverby.com!
CONNECT:
TikTok: @jojohnsonoverby / @matt.overby
Instagram: @jojohnsonoverby / @matt.overby
Website: https://jojohnsonoverby.com/
Watch the Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL29Si0ylWz2qj5t6hYHSCxYkvZCDGejGq
This week we talk through the differences between memory and recall (and which one of can do which), discuss how Halloween and other holidays have changed since having kids, and give an updated look into family photo tips and tricks.
We get to a handful of voicemails again this week, ranging from how to handle complex family dynamics to pricing your services as a self employed creative. We retell our engagement story and do our best to provide insightful advice how how to move on after breaking off an extended relationship.
Also, we truly appreciate you all for helping us to reach 500 ratings and reviews on Spotify! So buckle up; it's going to be a memorable ride. Let's start Oversharing!
If you've got a voicemail or want our (likely unqualified) advice on something, hit us up at the Speakpipe link below!
http://www.speakpipe.com/oversharingwiththeoverbys
If you'd like to email us you can reach the pod at oversharing@jojohnsonoverby.com!
CONNECT:
TikTok: @jojohnsonoverby / @matt.overby
Instagram: @jojohnsonoverby / @matt.overby
Website: https://jojohnsonoverby.com/
Watch the Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL29Si0ylWz2qj5t6hYHSCxYkvZCDGejGq
Welcome to Oversharing with Overbys. I'm Jo.
Matt:And I'm Matt.
Jo:And each week you can tune in to hear us respond to your voice mails, go in depth on our lives as content creators and hopefully leave you feeling even better than we found you.
Matt:With that being said, let's get to Oversharing.
Jo:Hello, hello, lumberjack man, you wanna fill people in on the fit? Really paint a picture.
Matt:Paint a picture of what I'm wearing.
Jo:Yes.
Matt:I've got.
Jo:You said insulated bibs, but do people know what insulated bibs are?
Matt:Like overalls is what I'm talking about. Tan canvas overalls. Gray t-shirt. Red stocking cap.
Jo:I love it and the stocking cap says puppies make me happy.
Matt:Yeah, it's one I've had for a minute.
Jo:It's like my favorite hat that you own.
Matt:Really.
Jo:Since you got it. Yeah, okay, I love when you wear it. It was a gift. Does it? From who? Sarah? Oh, I love that, I love it.
Matt:I think it was a brosemade gift. It was part of a little package, oh that makes sense. Yeah.
Jo:I really like it. I wonder if other people I'm sure people have like favorite items that they're significant, others that they're like I really, every time you wear this.
Matt:I like it. Yeah, I think that's pretty standard.
Jo:What's yours for me?
Matt:I knew, knew, I was gonna ask you that I knew that was coming the moment you talked about it and I was like oh no.
Jo:I have a few for you. I like the green long sleeve, henley, that you have. Okay, like. The newest one to add is your 2XL box T from.
Matt:Oh, my Abercrombie, Abercrombie, jumbo, jumbo T's that I'm wearing.
Jo:I'm really into that and this hat, and I'm trying to think of anything else. I'm sure there are other things, but those are definitely ones that I think of immediately.
Matt:I feel like what affects more than anything is things you feel good in. That, to me, tends to shade the whole deal how you're feeling about what you're wearing.
Jo:If you don't feel good about it, then you're gonna out. That's too nice. I don't like that.
Matt:Well, it wasn't meant to be like super nice, Just I think in practice that's what it ends up being.
Jo:No, I don't think that you're saying like. I don't think you're lying to me, I don't think you're doing a bit.
Matt:I just That'd be a weird bit. It's not a very good bit being nice.
Jo:I just wanted you to tell me like an item you know An item. Instead you were honestly pretty caring and nice, which is fine. You're nor there.
Matt:Oh, I also have a terrible memory Like I will recognize things, like I can see things and I remember seeing them, but my recall is not good.
Jo:He says he has a terrible memory. But then we'll be having a conversation and you can like quote the entire conversation to me.
Matt:I only have a memory for details. I don't have like general. Again, I think my recall is just poor. Like, is that a thing Like you have? You have them all banked somewhere but you can't get to them unless somebody leads you there.
Jo:Probably.
Matt:Yeah, I'm like I can't get them myself, but if someone prompts it I'm like oh, I remember that exact conversation, word for word.
Jo:Yeah, whereas I'm. I have pretty good recall, yeah, but the details are real fuzzy, yeah.
Matt:It's I mean together. If we're trying to think of the same thing, we can do a good job.
Jo:We're a good team or we're an absolute nightmare.
Matt:Then it's to go against each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, this is how it went down, and I was like, actually, now that you bring it up word for word, that's not even close. And you were like well, that's how it felt and I was like I can't argue with that that's actually a really good point.
Jo:I remember feelings. I'm really good at dates.
Matt:Yes, of all the things to not have details about, you can remember dates very specifically.
Jo:It's because I've been like this since I was a kid. I like part of it. One. I think that being born in June is really helpful with dates and ages, because for your entire childhood you were the same age the entire school year.
Matt:Oh OK.
Jo:So starting there, I think that helped me a lot.
Matt:I was born in July and I don't think it helped me at all.
Jo:Well, I'm not saying that that guarantees you're like this, but I'm saying I think that's an asset.
Matt:It gives you a leg up.
Jo:Yeah, because when I think of things that happened, if I was a sophomore, that means I know I was 15.
Matt:OK, does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense.
Jo:And so I can say things with a lot more confidence than most people, because other people were having to think was that fall, was that spring, was it before my birthday? Was it after my birthday? Do you know what I mean?
Matt:Sure, yeah, yeah.
Jo:So for me, if I was a senior, I was 17, freshman in college, 18, et cetera Fair. So I think that helped me a lot. Then I photographed weddings for five years and my weekends were drilled into me because my work dates were Saturdays. I had the whole calendar memorized.
Matt:Yeah, you knew, every day that was a Saturday.
Jo:I knew all the Saturday dates for the year and then I could go forward or backward.
Matt:Wild.
Jo:And so I think that I just had the right circumstances. That helped me. I also was telling Matt last night that we've moved houses every couple years and. I remember where we had conversations or where we were living, and that helps give me a reference point too.
Matt:And my recall is just poor, but I think I remember details because I'm I think it's because I'm actually not great at auditory processing. I think I have delayed auditory processing and that's why I can recall what people say, because I have to play back the sound more, or less.
Jo:So let me understand this.
Matt:I think the words, the sounds come in, and then my brain is like a delay where it's like OK, what were those sounds?
Jo:Are you insinuating that repetition or practice helps with your memory?
Matt:I mean, I think repetition and practice helps with almost anything.
Jo:Does it. That's weird.
Matt:I don't know how that was related to what I was saying. I was just saying I think why I can do details, especially conversations-wise, is because I'm actually not a great auditory processor.
Jo:Yeah, I hear you, but what I was saying, what I was very poorly insinuating, is would your auditory processing get better if you practiced?
Matt:I think almost anything you practice would get better. It just requires practicing Something I hate doing.
Jo:Yes.
Matt:If I'm not good at it right away, I don't even know why I would even try. That is true. And, honestly, the key for Matt is like well, I don't know about that.
Jo:I was about to say for you to do really well the first time you try something, and then you'll spend forever trying to replicate it.
Matt:That helps.
Jo:But then immediately, what I thought of is social. Like Matt, I've been talking to Matt. Matt posted a TikTok this week, if you guys missed it, and every TikTok Matt has ever posted has done semi-well.
Matt:I mean pretty well, it's mostly given my size.
Jo:Yeah, and yet nothing can. The man just doesn't think about it.
Matt:Oh, it's only our whole job.
Jo:It's my whole job. I don't actually. You don't have requirements.
Matt:I mean, yeah, but it's, it's the main job in our household.
Jo:Would it be helpful to get the podcast in front of more eyes by you creating content? Probably, but if you don't want to, it goes back to. I've said this truly for everybody listening. I've said this from the time we started. Content together is if you didn't want to or weren't interested in doing it with me or making your own, you didn't have to and we've never pushed that.
Matt:Yeah, I just hate starting things, especially if I'm not great at them, and you've done a lot of the things like you've helped me make.
Jo:For sure.
Matt:So I'm not. I'm not good at making my own content, so I have to be like here's raw material help, and then you turn it into something because you have tons of practice and you're good at it.
Jo:Yeah, but you're great at talking to the camera and you're good at documenting and filming.
Matt:I'm okay at talking to the camera. I've gotten back.
Jo:You're okay.
Matt:Yeah, I mean it takes, but you're not bad, I've, I've gotten a lot of feedback from you that is less than flattering. I'm talking to the camera.
Jo:Well, if there's one thing I've learned is I'm not good at giving feedback.
Matt:Well, you're well. No, you give a lot of feedback.
Jo:Yeah, I though crush people's dreams and hopes.
Matt:Okay, I don't know about that. I think you build up a lot of people's dreams and hopes.
Jo:Who are?
Matt:you talking about? Well, just me.
Jo:Well, I think that I handle everybody the same.
Matt:Just some people are better at taking any kind of criticism, and those people aren't me.
Jo:Well, no, I think other people don't necessarily allow me to see how I've crushed them to my face. Maybe I don't know.
Matt:Or they don't take criticism as personally yeah.
Speaker 3:Do you?
Matt:tend to take any criticism as a statement on me as a human being to a core level. That. What is that like? Well, it feels bad yeah.
Jo:Have you been like that since you were little?
Matt:Yeah, I think so.
Jo:You're just really sensitive.
Matt:I think so. It's either you let it in and it hurts you very personally, or you just pretend nothing matters you, just you let nothing in, or you let it in and it just destroys you. There's probably some callus that needs to be built up.
Jo:There's no working around that.
Matt:I think there's some growth there. What Okay?
Jo:What's really funny about that to me is we create videos and like post them on the internet for like massive feedback for a living.
Matt:Those people aren't real to me. Oh, okay, okay.
Jo:Okay, okay, cause I was about to say you take it better than I do.
Matt:Yeah, I, just one. I forget that we even do it Like. I forget people watch things online even though the numbers on the phone say things like. That's not super real. To me, it's like the present and the like. It's just the past and the future. Same way that I can't like conceptualize those Well, I can't actually conceptualize people watching it and really taking it in. I feel that.
Jo:Yeah, I feel that way, I still to this day. I remember when I, when I hit 10,000 followers, my mom called me and said that's like four of your high schools, and I remember that rocked my ever loving world. Yeah, again, we've just done it for a while too.
Matt:So it's it's less impactful, I would say, but yeah, yeah, we did talk also about how you deliver criticism. That's what I was talking about.
Jo:Yeah, I was, I was dogging on myself, yeah, because you do usually have good Corrections.
Matt:This is so bad, I'm embarrassed.
Jo:This is something you just learned recently is you've got this habit of correcting.
Matt:You're saying, okay, in the example of me filming myself, you were like, hey, you're saying I'm too much. Very valid note. Happy to take that one, Not what it was, Nothing personal but, like yeah, actually I think it was one of them.
Speaker 4:It was one of the so um. So I was using, I was using a word too much to pause.
Matt:You're not going to be able to do that Pause. You're like you're saying so too much. But then you went from valid critique to and it makes you sound really dumb.
Jo:I did not say that. Well, that's how it felt.
Matt:How's that? Feel no. How's that flipped on you.
Jo:No way, that's what I said to you. Surely not.
Matt:I don't know what it was. It makes you sound whatever, not very flattering.
Jo:Okay, I'll take that.
Matt:You have a habit of you start with a critique. Often it even has the correction in it, like hey, you did this and you should try this. And then you go on to be like because what you're doing right now is dumb, or what you're doing right now sounds bad, and you're like I didn't really need that. I figured when you corrected it it wasn't right. I just didn't need you to go in on what I've already done. I'm so sorry.
Jo:It's starting to get personal. It's not actually personal.
Matt:You don't mean any of it personally because it's all feedback to you.
Jo:To me it's all just constructive and I'm thinking about it in a very but that still stands and that is very valid and. I am going to You've done. I'm taking that to the table.
Matt:You've taken it to heart and you're working on it. But you did learn that this week, when we had several things that we were critiquing, especially it's a lot of times things that you're good at or that you do naturally Like photography you have an eye. I am horrible you can't describe photography to anyone. You do have a course on shooting in manual. That is good.
Speaker 6:But that's not but like that took.
Jo:It's not composition. Right, you're saying, I can teach you how to utilize a camera. I can teach you the like, the hard Black and white part. I can. You know what I mean. Like the, this is what this does, this is what that does, and I can teach you. Like the rule of thirds, and I can teach you, yeah, but and part of it isn't so much I think that I could even teach people to photograph other people. We have a really hard time because you're trying to photograph me.
Matt:And you have very specific.
Jo:Vision, and I can't describe it because I can't see myself.
Matt:Okay.
Jo:Does that make sense?
Matt:Sure.
Jo:When I'm like if we had another subject in front of the camera, I could explain to you and teach you what I'm wanting them to do and how I'm going to get them there, but you can't see yourself and I can't see myself. So even if I put you in the position and talk you through it, you can't see what it looks like, because you're you.
Matt:And then when we flip it Anyway, I think we might just need to get another monitor that we use to record the podcast, and that's just what we shoot. We have one facing you and We'd probably I'd get a lot better pictures.
Jo:I'd use the air purifier, I mean you would get better pictures.
Matt:I get great pictures because you're taking them.
Jo:Yeah, you do get great pictures and you know how to make other people look good. I do.
Matt:You also have things that you want to look a certain way.
Jo:Right.
Matt:Like you have specific critiques of yourself in front of the camera.
Jo:Everybody does yes.
Matt:No, that's absolutely true. Whatever you see when you're in a picture, you're like I don't like this about me, Something that's really funny, is so my best friend JC?
Jo:we've never had her on the podcast.
Speaker 3:But we haven't had anybody on the podcast.
Jo:She's been on middle ground, my other podcast a couple of times. Yeah, and we've been best friends for our entire adult lives and her and Matt, I think, have very similar body image, like something, no, no it's not that, but like the things you see about yourselves. And both of them will take a picture of me and be like, oh, you're going to hate that Like and it's always the same picture. And then you show me and I'm like I love that what.
Matt:Like, actually it's my favorite one, that's the perfect one, I'm like what the?
Jo:I never ask you guys, though, what about it, because I don't want to know.
Matt:And that's why I don't even. I just turn it around and ask what you like and don't like and if there's something you want to change. Because every once in a while you'll say, yeah, you're not going to like it Some, and sometimes you're right, but most of the time I've gotten better at being like well, that's just bad composition, or you look like a brick, Like there are times where it's like that's obviously not what she was going for. I've gotten a little better at that.
Jo:But, in general, I don't she looks bad. I don't know.
Matt:That can't be what she was going for I mean that sounds harsh, but that is the gist of it, more or less. It's like that's a bad picture. That's not going to look good.
Jo:I'm shooting it, so it's not even a statement on you, well not something that's interesting about being a photographer, because you can see a moment and through your eyes, whatever angle it is or whatever it can be really beautiful moment and the person looks so beautiful. And then you get the camera out and he has shipped six inches to the left and up a little bit and all of a sudden you're like, wow, how did it get so bad?
Matt:You shoot it from too high of an angle and you're like, oh no, that person looks way better than that.
Jo:Yeah, so I honestly take it as a compliment. When you're like it's not coming through, I'm like oh, he thinks I'm cute, Because if you thought I looked really bad in person and then it looks exactly the same on the camera, you're like I'm doing the best I can.
Matt:I can't make what's in front of me look better on the camera.
Jo:Exactly. Yes, so it makes me think that you think I'm cute. Yeah, you are cute, thanks.
Matt:That's, yeah, that whole thing to compliment yourself. Good stuff, good stuff.
Jo:We're moving into the ultimate photo season and last year we did an episode around now about like different activities you could go do to take pictures, and so I think that's why that's front of mind for us is we're thinking about the fall pictures, holiday pictures, holiday cards, all that good stuff. And so I'm going to kind of ask Matt the same question I asked last year, because I think it's going to be relevant to everybody, and that is what's your advice to people? Parents everywhere, mom or dad, but I would say mostly moms who are just hoping to get people to show up with a good attitude for family photos in the next coming months.
Matt:Words are not coming out of my mouth. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I mean it's the same standbys, it's again there's kind of different settings. I feel like, like if you're just trying to get a quick family picture, like on an iPhone or whatever, and you know grandpa is taking it, then you have it like lower expectations.
Jo:Well, OK, fair.
Matt:Also may not be very good with this, maybe someone that can use the camera a little better. But if you're going to have like multiple opportunities, it's not you schedule they photographer to come because, that's harder in that you have a set time.
Matt:that's not going to be a good time Set time that everybody needs to show up and be on for. But if you don't have a set time and you have some flexibility, try it for a little bit. And if people aren't having it, like now that we have two kids, it's twice the complication in terms of our both kids here and ready to ready for action ready to play.
Matt:Yeah, ready to show up and not be really mad and hide our faces or do whatever like they're not bad. But there are times where gardeners just like for sure. No, not going to do it. You can't make me.
Jo:Well, very, that's toddler hood. I think, yeah, for sure.
Matt:And since we take a lot of pictures, we can go you know what five minutes it's not working. We can scrap it.
Jo:Yeah.
Matt:And you can try again when the moment hits.
Jo:I think that that's even relevant in, like, when you're out doing things. If you go to the pumpkin patch, I recommend, as a family, try and take a picture of the moment you get there and if that doesn't work, 30 minutes play, do the things and then try again. And if that doesn't work, 30 minutes an hour, whatever, go play and then try again. And if you don't get any through any of those times, it just wasn't meant to be, but I always think not forcing it in that moment If everybody's not having it.
Matt:Yeah, making a shoot longer and more intense has, I don't think, ever gotten us good results. No, like I don't think we've ever been able to force it and be like I'm going to just make this kid's face smile or I'm going to make them look at the camera, because what they do when you force them to look at the camera will be appalling.
Jo:Well, a lot of times I don't even want them. I love a standard photo of all the smiling. I like to have them, but more than anything, I just want candidates of us engaging with each other, and that's why I think the fall and going into winter is such a fun time. Same thing with spring for me is there are so many activities that kids like to get involved in. Yeah, yeah, the patch.
Matt:Definitely. I mean, like we talked about it's, it's doing activities, not necessarily getting everybody posed. That will help when you have someone shooting for you, because you'll get somebody that knows what they're doing and you can keep your kids entertained. That's always the complicated part. Now, if the adults aren't showing up with a good attitude, that's a different problem. Do you have?
Jo:recommendations for that.
Matt:Oh, probably just communicating. It's always communicating. I think that's the solution to 95% of problems out there Either communicating hey, this is going to take this much time we need to be on. What are the expectations? What are we going for? I think the more that stuff gets processed and say, hey, it's limited, we're going to try and make this as fast as possible, or sometimes just attitudes suck and then I don't know how to fix that.
Jo:Yeah, I think it's the same thing I've always stated, which is making photos more frequently. Like making photos more frequent and less hassle.
Matt:Yeah.
Jo:Because the more often you take them and the less time that it takes, it no longer is a really encumbering. Is that the word?
Matt:That's a good word, yeah.
Jo:Like encumbering activity. I feel like for so many it is because it ends up being this big built up thing, Super tense, super tense because everybody wants this really specific thing and it just it doesn't need to be that. It didn't used to be that?
Jo:I think it's become that because of the way social media has evolved and the way yeah, how much we share online and how we think that the stills captured somehow define our families, and I just don't think that's it Like right now. Our toddler has an absolutely ridiculous cheese smile and I love it and. I'm going to capture every single frame of it that I possibly can, because one day she's not going to do that anymore.
Matt:Yeah.
Jo:And it's going to be so bad, you know, and it's okay. It's okay if I don't get a single picture of a, you know not just aggressive smile.
Matt:Yeah, that's okay. I say you use less muscles in your face when you smile, but to paint a picture when Guardi is smiling right now. There's absolutely no way she's using less muscles to smile than she would to frown. It's not possible. She's using everything in her face to like pull her mouth open. Eyes are completely shut. It's like she's trying to show you like her molars, but you know, teeth are together. It's hilarious. It's. It's very cute. She still looks happy but it's also kind of insane.
Jo:I love it. It's. It's a lot of fun. It's my favorite ever. So I don't know.
Matt:How's Halloween been?
Jo:It's good.
Matt:We're in. We haven't had Halloween Halloween, but we've.
Jo:But we have. If you're listening to this, yeah. I feel like it's all been good. We did all of our trigger treating like events and things like that. We had a crummy crummy Halloween and weather oh yeah, and so that was a bummer, but it worked out. We went to the local museum and took the kids with some friends and their kiddos and it was a lot of fun. I think the funniest thing about parenthood for me is how we still go to parties with our friends and let me get a sitter and then the next day having our kids dressed up and like taking them to do their things.
Jo:it feels like such a double life because I don't know if my parents just didn't go to that many things.
Matt:Yeah.
Jo:I don't feel like my parents went. I know they went to some like it's not never, but I don't remember my parents on any kind of regular interval going to things for just them.
Matt:Well, I think, just in our phase of life it's it's Halloween is very extended. Right now it's a multi-day event because, like you said, we had a Halloween party on Saturday and then we had like a couple of trick-or-treating events on Sunday and then we'll have more trick-or-treating on actual Halloween Tuesday, and so it's it's like a, it's like someone who has like a birthday month, it's like Halloween week is happening.
Jo:Yeah, but I think it's always been like that a little bit, yeah, that's well, but we're just entering the phase where that's relevant to us normally, but I felt like that was relevant to me when I was in college because we dressed up in three different costumes and we went out every single night of the weekend and then on Halloween also.
Matt:Well, you were clearly taking it more seriously than I was.
Jo:Well, I was just going to every social thing that I could.
Matt:Yeah, I wasn't that social, so I guess I guess this is just hitting me now that we yeah, I feel like I'm not.
Jo:I'm equally busy, it's just split between my perception of what parenthood would be is that I was just a parent then and that's silly, you know thinking about it, but now I'm like, oh, I'm still me and a parent.
Matt:Totally fair yeah.
Jo:Like I'm doing both.
Matt:Yeah, we're playing beer pong on Saturday and yeah walking through the museum with the kids.
Jo:I'm not very good at beer pong.
Matt:We won. We won a game.
Jo:Do you know how many games I played?
Matt:I don't know how many you played A lot, that was the only one I won. I won a few games.
Jo:I kept going back. I was having a great time.
Matt:Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I played that in years. Yeah, no.
Jo:I haven't, and it made me wonder, like do we need beer pong at our house?
Matt:Yeah, I think we should be teaching Gartie right now it's ping pong, balls and cups, like it's a fun game she would love it and why.
Jo:I don't think we need to call it beer pong, it can just be a ping pong ball cup toss. All right, we'll work on it? No, I just think that that's really fun. I had a great time.
Matt:No, it was a lot of fun. Just a good old adult Halloween party.
Jo:What are your Halloween thoughts?
Matt:No, just that, it's, it's. It feels more extended this year.
Jo:I think it also depends on what it falls. Yes, we're Halloween. Falls Like, I think, this year the way Halloween, because, if I don't know, if Halloween Halloween was on Sunday or Saturday.
Matt:I guess it might be a little more condensed.
Jo:Right.
Matt:I think that a Tuesday it's really stretching it. Yeah, for sure, the weekend is when you're going to do things with adults and people who have jobs.
Jo:Christmas tree up on November 1st, yes or no, hot take what's your, what's your thought.
Matt:I don't have a big opinion on it, but you've made it clear that it's going up pretty soon.
Jo:Well, we do it differently each year and I have opinions on it. When we travel for Thanksgiving, the Christmas tree goes up November 1st. When we don't travel and we're home, it goes up the Friday after Thanksgiving, together as a family. Yeah but I don't want to get home from traveling and feel like I have to then put up. I want to come home and it be the holiday Dig through the Christmas boxes.
Matt:Yeah, try and put the tree together. Yeah, that does not sound super fun.
Jo:Does that?
Matt:I'm totally okay with that. Does that?
Jo:carry. Well, I know that you're okay with it. Yeah, but thoughts. Thoughts I feel like that's pretty rational, that feels yeah.
Matt:There's a reason and a logic to it that I can get behind. I'm not very impassioned about the Christmas decorations.
Jo:I'm not either.
Matt:No, but you do like your tree.
Jo:Yes, I do. You want that Just so I think it's just like another plant in the house.
Matt:Although I guess we have multiple trees.
Jo:We do two.
Matt:We still doing just two.
Jo:Yeah.
Matt:We're not going to three or two more.
Jo:Oh no, I'm not going to buy any more trees this year Got it no-transcript I.
Matt:Is there a little tree?
Jo:There's a mini tree. Okay, so I guess we have three. Okay, well, the mini one's not really involved. No, I was gonna let G make ornaments. Okay, that's what I thought.
Matt:I thought we were doing that soon, so I was feeling that out. Yeah, but two trees that we have to decorate.
Jo:We do an ornament party with family friends every year.
Matt:Oh yeah, and that's on the calendar. Yep, that'd be fun.
Jo:We're in Missouri this year for that, so Good stuff, good stuff yeah. I think it's happening.
Matt:Yeah, it's definitely more complicated with two kids.
Jo:Well, I think I'm really this year G's too, and it's the first time that she has a real comprehension of what's going on, and so I think I'm feeling more pressure to start some of those traditions and making things a little more magical and being a little more intentional with activities. I've been a little lax before now. I know a lot of people come out the gate gunning to go when their baby's born.
Matt:Yeah, a lot of people are much better than us at that. Yeah, because at a year and a half she was just barely understanding presents. Right, she was like, oh, I can open this box, cool. But now she definitely knows what a present is.
Jo:For sure.
Matt:And she wants to open all the packages we get For sure. Whether or not they're for her.
Jo:Yes.
Matt:She'll open them and just be like what is that? It's like that's soap.
Jo:She's like oh wow, that's amazing that part's fun it is. You know what time it is.
Matt:What time is it?
Jo:Greg reads of the week Greg Greg, greg, greg.
Matt:Were you waiting for me to chime in there?
Jo:Yeah, I was, but you didn't Just let you hang. Yeah, so Greg's your dad.
Matt:He reads a lot of news. He sends us some of that news and we rate those articles on a scale of one to five. How much anxiety the titles give us.
Jo:This one came in yesterday.
Matt:Oh no.
Jo:How to take control of the money mindset that shapes your behavior.
Matt:Three, really yeah.
Jo:For me it's like a two and a half. I can get on board with that.
Matt:You acted so surprised when I said three and then you were like 2.5.
Jo:Well, I perceived that it wouldn't stress you out as much because it didn't have any of, like your main red flag words other than money.
Matt:Money, mindset it didn't say retirement.
Jo:It didn't say anything about the future. It didn't say anything about you know.
Matt:I don't like behavior. Got it. Behavior concerns me.
Jo:Okay.
Matt:I assume my behavior is not right.
Jo:I think I get tired of anything to do with mula. Yeah, I think that's the only one that I have this week. What?
Matt:Surely not, surely not. I feel like I've seen several I know.
Jo:Bounce through. I've seen more.
Matt:Well, let me look. Let me look. Yeah, I'm not seeing any either. It's been a quiet week.
Jo:Quiet week from Greg. Yeah, what's that about Greg? You good.
Matt:Yeah.
Jo:I've talked to him on the phone a couple of times, so I know he's with us.
Matt:Maybe you just said you were tired of money articles, and that's always really good.
Jo:He just sent me the really good ones.
Matt:Yeah.
Jo:Probably.
Matt:A creme de la creme.
Jo:You know, I think that that's maybe a record for the least articles he's sent us in a week. I don't know that I've ever gone a week that he only sent one.
Matt:Yeah that, or we would just skip the second one, sos.
Jo:I'm concerned about Greg's safety.
Matt:Reach out, make sure that he's reading his news.
Jo:We'll check in what's the word of the week.
Matt:Word of the week. That's a great question that I forgot we were doing.
Jo:What's really fun about living with Matt and working with Matt is it doesn't matter how many times you do things. It's always a surprise to him, which I imagine is kind of what it's like living with me. Yeah, sometimes Think about it A movie we've seen four times. I'm like did you know this happened in this movie? It's like that, but with tasks.
Matt:I just looked up vocab word of the day and Merriam Webster's word of the day is werewolf and I think you know that word.
Jo:That's actually really funny that it's the word of the day, because everybody thought Matt was dressed as a werewolf.
Matt:Oh yeah, that's because you straighten my hair. It's never been straightened before. It brought back some high school comp that I used to get to. Taylor Lautner, aka Jacob, from the Twilight series, turns out, if you straighten your long hair, you look a lot like he did in that film, which is funny, because you don't look anything like Taylor Lautner to me. Well, I think it's a coloring thing, and then I think our job is similar.
Jo:You were a lot tanner in high school.
Matt:Yeah, he was a lot tanner back then. He was, I think so I don't know about that.
Jo:He was shirt off a lot.
Matt:I feel like he was probably pretty tan. Okay, yeah, fair, but I don't think his shirt's nearly as often now on their podcast.
Jo:That's probably the real difference.
Matt:Yeah, you don't need to be that tanned a podcast? I just don't think you do Now. Vocabularycom's word of the day is billius.
Jo:Oh, okay, I don't know what that means. Billius, can you?
Matt:spell it for me D-I-L-I-O-U-S.
Jo:Billius. Okay, here it is.
Matt:If an unpleasant meal has left you feeling grumpy and looking green, you're billius in several senses of the word. This adjective can mean both troubled by indigestion and irritable. It can also be used to suggest a sickly green shade.
Jo:Okay, it comes from the word like bile. That makes sense, but it's only for feeling sick to your stomach.
Matt:Or if you look green Okay. Or irritable, I guess.
Jo:But is it irritable because my tummy hurts?
Matt:I think that's kind of the gist.
Jo:Okay.
Matt:Like you're not feeling well.
Jo:Yeah, I feel billius.
Matt:Billius yeah.
Jo:Billius, billius.
Matt:We'll let the phone tell people how to say it. Billius. Billius.
Jo:Billius, okay yeah.
Matt:There you go. There's a word.
Jo:Word of the week. Word of the week. Word of the week.
Matt:Are we infringing on some song copy right there? That felt like out of the box.
Jo:Right, but I think I can do that, okay, okay.
Matt:It's a parody, it's a parody oh, we have voicemails.
Jo:We have four voicemails this week.
Matt:Shoot. All right, here we go.
Speaker 6:Hey guys, this is Hallie. I left voicemail a couple of sets ago. I'm a Ceramics girl but also I do photography. And I had a question for Jo because pricing is something I've struggled with for so, so long I've been doing photography for I want to say like seven years now and pricing is always literally a guessing game for me and I was wondering if you had any way that you calculated how to price sessions, because I struggle with like family shoots. For one, I take so many photos because I want to get the good one with like all the kids looking at the camera, and so I take way more than needed, obviously, so it takes me a while to go through. So then I struggle with pricing that because I don't have an exact oh, an hour shoot is going to take me an hour to edit or whatever. So if you have any advice on that, I'd love to hear it.
Jo:I actually have an entire course on this, so I have a course on this on my website. It costs dollars, but you can use code TIKTOK30 for 30% off. But I will also. I'm going to answer your question too. So, like you don't, if you would like more in-depth information than what I'm about to say, that is on my website.
Jo:What I recommend doing to get started is to add up what your personal cost of living is and your cost of doing business, and those are going to be the two most important numbers you're taking into consideration as your pricing yourself, because I think a lot of people think about an hourly rate Like what am I wanting to make per hour? And being self-employed? That's kind of a hard way to look at it, because the work just doesn't necessarily evenly play like that. Like when I was doing photography, I could spend 20 hours one week working on my website, working on my marketing, working on being present online, whatever it was, and then spend six hours shooting and then the editing would take me like I don't know. It just doesn't shake out quite that way.
Jo:So if you can figure out what your cost of doing business is on average, like, give yourself a real you know about this a month or about this a quarter, and then you can kind of look at and see how many hours am I working, how many shoots can I take to be at full capacity. So for me I wanted to be making the income I needed to live and cover my cost of doing business by shooting 20 weddings a year. Anything on top of 20 weddings was like additional to me, because 20 weddings is full time and that's that. I knew that that was a lot and so I added all of that up and then kind of came to a conclusion of I needed to make X dollars per wedding in order to cover my cost of living and cover the cost of running my business.
Matt:Yeah, I think there's obvious constraints there, like if your prices are well beyond what you're delivering.
Jo:There's some negotiating there A lot of people I've talked to have been like well, I have a full time job and I just do this on the side. Well, that's not really relevant. You still want to base it on the price that would cover your cost of living and your cost of doing business.
Matt:Yeah, yeah, because the funny thing is is people often underpriced themselves so that they get more work, but then you're just working way more than it's okay to price yourself higher and work less because it means the work. Often it means the work that you take will be valued more, and also it means that you will push some people away with your pricing, but the people that take that on, you'll be getting compensated for it fairly.
Jo:Well and you also won't burn yourself out, like I think something with creative careers is it's really easy to price yourself at a point that you're like, oh, I want it to be accessible to everybody and I commend that and I think that's a beautiful thing.
Jo:And what I did instead of pricing at a point that it was accessible to everybody because at the end of the day, you don't have capacity to serve everybody and it is not your responsibility to provide something to serve everybody so if you can put it at a price point that allows you a healthy coverage of your cost of living and your business expenses, then what I did every year is I took on one, sometimes two weddings a year that I would do for free or at a very steep discount because I could, and that was just on my own time, and so, instead of having a price point that was accessible to everybody, that's what I did, and there's not a right way to do that, you know. But I think a lot of people get caught up. You know they burn themselves out trying to make it something that can be for everyone and sadly, that's just not the world we live in.
Matt:And if you compare too broadly across the market you kind of get lost in where do you stack up with people and they may or may not be pricing based on their actual costs Some people just are not priced in a way that correlates with their cost of living or what they need to support themselves.
Jo:Yeah, I think whether or not.
Matt:Their quality is good.
Jo:I think that it's important to note that nowhere in anything I just said did I say look at other people's pricing. Yeah, I think that is a tragic mistake a lot of people make, because even people who seem like they know what they're doing, it doesn't mean their pricing is based on Anything you can be really good at photography and not know how to operate a business. And you can charge way less. You can charge way more, like I don't know.
Jo:It's just, and some people, like people a lot of times, will look at price points and be like that's outrageous, that it costs that much. But you don't know what their circumstances are, what their living expenses are, what their business costs are, and so it just everybody's so different, and so create your structure around what you, what serves you, what serves you? Yeah.
Matt:Yeah. So, was that helpful.
Jo:I was. I don't know if that was helpful or not. I tried.
Matt:Yeah, you can use other information to find out if you're like a tremendous outlier, but really you should start by assessing what your demands are and I've told people a lot.
Jo:I can't tell you how many business owners that came to my workshop said well, I'm not really booking at this price point, so I'm scared to increase my prices, and I can't tell you how many people. Later, like six months down the road, we talked and they increased their prices by 50% and 60%. They were no longer overworked, they could provide a better service to people and they were booking more than ever because a lot of people were discounting them simply based on the fact that their prices were so low that it was like a too good to be true scenario. And it's. It's because, when your price points are that low, a lot of those people that I talked with they weren't at the end of the day when we broke it down. They were making less than minimum wage doing this job that they're really passionate about and were barely making ends meet because they didn't understand. They were afraid no one would book them.
Matt:Yeah, so Pricing yourself lower is not always an answer, because it can can reduce the perceived quality of your product.
Jo:Yeah, and it's just you can end up really burnt out. So so, voice mail number two, hi.
Speaker 4:Jo and Matt. My name's Natalie and I'm calling from San Diego. I'm a college student down here. I just want to say that I love the podcast and all your content. I think you guys are great people and I love how real you are on the pod and on TikTok and Instagram. I was hoping you could tell us about your engagement story. I think you've talked on pod before about your dating timeline and your wedding a little bit, but not really about your engagement. Uh, maybe you can each tell your side of how it went and yeah, thanks.
Jo:San Diego what a life and college fun. What a place, what a place. We love San Diego. Uh, do you want to do you want you or me, me or you, okay.
Matt:I can you want me to start? Yeah, so that was back when you were shooting weddings, quite busy with it, and so you were doing a fair amount of travel as well. Now I have never been the planner in our relationship and especially then you were very much like here's the schedule, here's what we're doing. You were, you were always 10 steps ahead, and so we knew that'd been after we got back together and we were like, hey, this is going to be a long-term thing if we try this again. So it was kind of understood and we looked at rings and I was dumb enough to say what, what did I say that I was like I when I get the ring because we picked it out and actually like, made it.
Jo:Mm, hmm.
Matt:And then I basically was like I've, when I get it.
Jo:then I don't remember now and I think it was more relevant to you than it was to me, probably.
Matt:You probably weren't paying as much attention.
Jo:Anyway, you were working a lot, but and that was very worried because we went to go look at rings together and kind of picked out and designed my ring together. He still wanted the proposal part, uh, to be fun yeah.
Matt:And you wanted to be surprised, Right Like you didn't.
Jo:You didn't want to necessarily like see it coming. Yes.
Matt:And I wanted to do that as well because you you didn't want a whole thing about it, but I knew you would still want pictures and you would still want like documentation of the event. But as someone who doesn't plan a lot, it was kind of difficult to be like, hey, we're going to go here at this time. I, if I'd have been like, hey, do you want to go to Walmart on Friday? You'd be like, you're going to propose to me at Walmart, and that was good with me, you would have been fine with it.
Matt:It did not have to be a whole big thing but you did want to be surprised.
Jo:I feel like we got engaged around the time where, culturally, proposals took a shift and things started becoming these huge, like acts not acts Like it's a genuine act of love, but like where people are putting together big setups and there's all kinds of You've got two different photographers in the bushes.
Jo:Yeah, like it's this whole thing, and I didn't. What I wanted was I wanted to be surprised and I wanted to know that it was a thoughtful moment for you. I didn't care about it being. I was like if it's in our house, great, if it's in our kitchen, if it's just us. I didn't even say anything about getting pictures.
Matt:No, I just figured that would be something that would be important to you.
Jo:I'm glad I have them now.
Matt:Yes, that is true.
Jo:You did not communicate that you wanted the whole package of pictures and the reason I note that is I feel like anybody listening who has seen our proposal. Yes, yeah, it does, matt nailed it and it looks like a total event and it it was very casual yeah.
Matt:And the reason it worked is because, when you were doing all this travel, you had a trip planned out to Salt Lake City and you were doing that trip with another couple who did photography, and so they were very well set up to take pictures just whenever. And we went out there on that trip and took pictures of each other and shot different shoots with other people and did you have an engagement out there that you did?
Jo:Yeah, and the couple didn't even know that any of this happened.
Matt:Yeah.
Jo:They like. I posted their pictures later. It wasn't engagement, they were just modeling for us out there because I wanted and the couple that we were out there with wanted to shoot at the salt flats, and the couple that we photographed out there didn't even know that you were proposing, that you had proposed Like they left after we finished the shoot and we were just taking some like tourist pictures of each other.
Matt:Yeah Well, I also didn't give anyone a lot of heads up that it was happening. And so you had this trip playing out to Salt Lake City and I was kind of like slow playing if I would go or not, because that's when I was I was consulting in St Louis and you were living in Arkansas and so I was like, hey, I may or may not be able to make the trip, we'll see. And I was I was like, okay, I have to make this trip, and so I had that all scheduled off.
Jo:But I didn't know that.
Matt:Well, I was like I'm going to propose on this trip because I thought, you genuinely thought you couldn't come. Maybe early early, but then I think I realized it was going to be like a good opportunity to do this.
Jo:Okay.
Matt:And then I probably just played it along, yeah, like oh, maybe I'm going to make it, maybe I'm not. I don't, you didn't you weren't suspecting any of this, because it was a trip that you planned for your purposes, and so.
Jo:I was working.
Matt:Yeah, it was a work trip for you. You weren't really it wasn't on your radar, but I wanted to really keep it off your radar and so it was yeah.
Matt:Then I was like okay, I'm going to go. I didn't even tell the couple we were shooting with until two days before that I was planning on doing this, but I did tell them. It was like I think I'm going to do it at the salt flats whenever we go. I didn't talk to your parents until two weeks before, or a week or two, maybe a week.
Jo:I have no idea. I don't remember. I wasn't there.
Matt:It was I had to make like a special stop on the way through Springfield, just be like, hey, this is happening and I had to. Then there was the whole thing of getting the ring because I didn't.
Jo:That's my favorite part of the story.
Matt:I didn't procure it fast enough to actually get it, and so we had it made in Missouri and then I had it shipped to Arkansas to a friend and then he had to take it, meet up with you, hide it in your car because we were flying out of St Louis because that's where I lived to go to Salt Lake City, because there was a, I think, probably a better direct flight out of St Louis than there was North of Arkansas. And so he hit it in your car, you drove it up, I had to recover it out of the car, put it in my stuff and then hide it for two days because we didn't go to the salt flats until our last day there.
Jo:And so it wasn't our last day, or second to last day Right, it was our last day with the couple. We stayed for four more days after we got engaged.
Matt:Oh yeah, I guess we did.
Jo:Yeah, we went and shot with Autumn and we that's right, that's right Went and stayed at that hotel and did B dubs, that's right, that's where I learned you liked wings. Yeah.
Matt:We'd been together for how long? And I had no idea that you liked wings.
Jo:Yeah.
Matt:And so anyway, yeah, you had a plan shoot on the salt flats. We did the shoot and the couple we were with knew that I was going to do it at the salt flats, but they also had to like, work out a signal on the fly of like when I was going to propose. So they were ready and they were getting super nervous.
Jo:They were way more nervous than you were, yeah.
Matt:They were getting nervous because, well, they had to, like they were trying to get all the pictures and do all the things.
Jo:I had no idea, I had not prepared them enough.
Matt:Completely clueless, yeah, and they were really rushing things and you were like, wow, they weren't really being like obnoxious about wanting to get these pictures at twilight or whatever.
Jo:Yeah.
Matt:Yeah, it was great. They were not being obnoxious. That is such a no, they weren't. It wasn't obnoxious, they did an absolutely phenomenal job. They were really trying to make it happen.
Jo:Yeah, and they did, they did, they were fantastic. Shout out, kelsey. She's still taking pictures. She's based in Casey. So yeah, kelsey Crockett.
Matt:That's right.
Jo:And she's absolutely incredible, so very talented. So if you're in the Casey area and you're getting married, look her up. But yeah, I mean, but I didn't, I don't, I don't know, I wasn't expecting. No, because the pictures were so cool and that was our first thing, my first thing ever that went viral. Oh yeah, that was my first experience with and it went viral on my scale, you know, back then but, crazy, yeah.
Jo:So, from my perspective, I had no idea what was going on. I knew we went shop for rings together. I knew that we were planning to get engaged. I knew that I was going to marry Matt, but it was not on my radar. We got married, engaged in September and I was. It was more on my radar for like spring of 2018 ish, I didn't know. Yeah, that was kind of, but we were talking about getting married in summer 2019 in terms of my wedding schedule, like that's the time that I was leaving more open so that we would have room to do stuff.
Jo:And so I was thinking, I don't know, like a year, year and a half out from that, I definitely wasn't thinking, yeah, I hadn't moved yet, but I did also kind of want to.
Matt:I had a thought that I was like I wanted to be. I wanted to propose before we moved in, but it was the week you were already moving though, yes, you had your job and you were moving. Yes, because you moved in a week after you proposed.
Jo:Yeah, because we got engaged.
Matt:the weekend afterwards my sister's wedding, that's right.
Jo:And then you moved the week after that. That was another thing I was like is this a little?
Matt:too close to this event. Absolutely, it was, yeah, like my sister was.
Speaker 3:But I was having to do a trip.
Matt:Yeah, my sister did not care at all.
Jo:No, but her whole wedding I did not bring up the. I mean, everybody knew we got engaged but yeah, I lost my engagement ring at her wedding. You did, that's right. We had to find it in the field.
Matt:Yeah, that was a process, because I was eating wings.
Jo:I was eating wings at her wedding. It was a hot time for wings. Yeah, and my hands got all greasy and it just like which is funny because I've never had it resized and it fits fine but something about whatever was on my hands, it slipped right off my finger and your hands were just extra skinny and your wings were extra Saucy, extra saucy.
Jo:Yeah, and I didn't even realize I'd lost it. I walked over and I was talking to my grandma and my grandma was like let me see that ring. And I held out my hand and there was nothing on it. Oh gosh, yeah that was. And my sister got married out in the middle of a mode field at her in-laws property in a tent. So I was like well, that's gone forever. That was scary.
Jo:We found it pretty quick and it was nighttime before we found out, yeah, so we had to go search with flashlights, which might have actually helped us because it we did not search with flashlights. Did we not no the reception?
Matt:was still going on.
Jo:I have no idea what you're thinking of.
Matt:Oh, we had to go pick everything up and thought with flashlights, with flashlights, I'm not confusing the two stories. Yeah, yeah, we did have to do that.
Jo:My ring was found almost immediately. It was under my chair like in the grass, but it was right where I'd been eating. Yeah, because it had just slipped off my hand.
Matt:I must have been looking for something else.
Jo:I think other people lost things.
Matt:I'm sure I had to search for them when they were starting. I don't doubt that.
Jo:I just was like that's you're making, I'm normally the one that You're normally the tall tales.
Matt:If we'd had flashlights and we're looking for it.
Jo:it would be a much bigger story to me. Yes, it would. Anyway. Yeah, that's our proposal.
Matt:Yeah, I don't know if that was the best told version of it, but that saw the details.
Jo:Yeah, matt, from my perspective it's funny because right before I went up to St Louis, matt's buddy Ross who's the one that hid the ring in my car I was photographing an event and he came to the event because he's like I have one of your. He had one of my speakers, like my Bluetooth speakers. Yeah, I'm going to bring that back to you. And it worked out great because I was super busy and so I was like just take my keys to get in my car. It's whatever. I mean, he was so nervous.
Matt:He was super nervous because we had to. I mean, he's similar to me. He needed, like exact details of why he would be going to meet up with you in this random place and give you something I didn't even think about it, I was like okay, I know you still have our speakers, and I think one of them was mine or whatever.
Matt:And so I was like tell her you want to bring her the speakers so that I got one back before our trip and everything. So you had it, and so I gave him the whole prompt and then he showed up and you were just like put in the car. I was like she's not going to care.
Jo:She's not even going to think about it.
Matt:She's super busy. If you show up and say, hey, I just came to give you these and I'm going to go put them in the car, she will give you the keys and you'll go do it. And that's exactly what happened.
Jo:Yeah, I didn't even question it, no, it just seemed normal.
Matt:She's like that's just a weird thing that Matt asked you to do.
Jo:It wasn't even. I didn't even think it was weird. It made perfect sense to me.
Matt:I was I was good at that, I think, you guys were just really hypercritical of your plan. Yeah.
Jo:Okay, do, do, do, do, do, do Voice mails.
Speaker 3:Hey Jo and Matt. I am a longtime listener. I have kind of called in Jenna Voicemail before, always super fun, I wanted to say. At the end of last episode, jo was like I would be mortified if I listened back and heard all of my singing. I randomly sing out words constantly so I really am obsessed with the fact that you do it. So please don't stop doing that. Just a fun question, because you guys don't like the serious ones or you don't dislike them. But where would you travel, like if you could go anywhere, money wasn't an object, where would you guys travel to and why would you go there? I hope you guys have a great week.
Jo:My answer has shifted. Okay, new. Zealand.
Matt:New Zealand yeah.
Jo:They don't have the scary animals and bugs.
Matt:That does help yeah.
Jo:New Zealand's at the top of my list right now.
Matt:What do you do at the moon?
Jo:Oh.
Matt:No object, no, I want to relax. I don't know. That seems like a pretty unique experience. I think I'd go to the moon.
Jo:It does sound unique and that's cool, but I want to like, I want to chill. I'd like to go to Bora Bora.
Matt:Okay.
Jo:I, in this circumstance, like I'm considering that my kids are, like, all cared for for two weeks.
Matt:Well, money's no object, yeah.
Jo:I want to go to New Zealand, Bora Bora, the Maldives.
Matt:Yeah.
Jo:Australia.
Matt:I'm trying to lean into the money's no object here.
Jo:And I think the moon is about as expensive as you can get. I don't really have an like there's nothing on the moon. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but like I don't care to tell people that I've been to the moon.
Matt:I don't need to tell people, I just kind of want to see what it's about. I just want to know. Okay.
Jo:What do you think they have going on there, man? Yeah, I don't know, tell me more.
Matt:I do feel like I want a moon landing, though, which I don't believe is commercially available at this time.
Jo:Yeah, I think that that's going to be one of those experiences that seemed cool in theory it's a self-funded space trip.
Matt:Yeah, I'm going to have to go through like two years of training.
Jo:Yeah, exactly Like I don't think that that quite has the shine that, you see, I don't know, I think it'd be cool.
Matt:I think that's awesome for you.
Jo:I'm not even that into space, no, I actually am very surprised to hear that, because you are in fact, as far as I know, not very into space. Also, never going to stop singing, should.
Matt:I was going to say she can't stop she, even if she wanted to, it would still happen. I make up songs constantly. So does our daughter. Yeah, they're almost always to the tune of baby shark.
Jo:I love my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my. I love that, yeah, it could be anything it could be like that Cut Broke, broke, broke, broke, broke, she's, she's flexible. She's a lyricist. She's a lyricist, she's a genius.
Matt:A super genius.
Jo:Yeah, a lyricist. Yeah, the next Taylor Swift A prodigy.
Matt:Yeah, not with our voices, it's not no, that's so true. She's going to need some training.
Jo:Yeah, stat, okay. Last voicemail of the day.
Speaker 5:Hey, matt and Jill, I just wanted to kind of give an update and ask another question. So probably like one of your very first episodes, first six, I left a voicemail and said I was in a 10 year relationship and I just wasn't feeling it. I wasn't sure what to do and just if I should break up or not. And you guys were like the answer for us is always break up, and so I mean, obviously you guys weren't the deciding factor. Thank, goodness.
Speaker 5:But I stayed for a couple more months and I just realized that I needed to just break it off. And if it was meant to be, I guess it will be, but it was definitely not meant to be. And it is one of those words cut off, never talk to each other again and I know that that's how you guys felt when you broke up too. I was just wondering how you guys felt afterwards, like how you went about not feeling guilty, because I'm in a new relationship now and, honestly, obviously it's still the honeymoon phase or whatever people want to call it, but it's still new and I felt better than I ever felt in that other relationship. So how do I not feel guilty about maybe them being lonely and me being happy? Because I constantly like kind of catch myself thinking, oh, I shouldn't be this happy because I just got out of a relationship that was really long and I feel bad. So just how did you not feel guilty after you guys broke up in new relationships or dating?
Jo:I think good of therapies might answer to that question.
Matt:Not like in a yeah, somebody that can address your situation specifically.
Jo:Because I Sorry, I didn't struggle with feeling guilty after we broke up.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I just didn't. I don't think you should.
Jo:My thought to you is like I think that that is a leftover feeling, that you feel as if you were I don't know how you are particularly feeling, but at some level feeling responsible for other people's situations and feelings and you're just not. You're not responsible for that, and I think having somebody to talk that out with is really healthy and helpful, and I think it's incredible that you made the choice to break up. But I thought she was going to ask is how do I deal with the guilt surrounding feeling like I wasted time? Oh, okay.
Jo:Because I thought that's the direction we were going and I was about to be like no wasted time, yeah, only lessons.
Matt:Well, I think the big thing too is that you were already kind of mourning that relationship while you were in it yeah. It was not working for you and that was clear and you were thinking about it. The other person maybe that wasn't on their radar as much, and so they're dealing with things on a delayed timeline from where you did, and so it's. I mean, it's okay for you to move on whenever you move on, but for you to have been ready to be out means that it was kind of done for you.
Matt:And so it's okay to have a new thing come along quickly.
Jo:Well, and your life is your life. You're just. You're not responsible for, unless you have children under the age of 18 that are in your care. You are not responsible for anybody else in what they feel.
Matt:Yeah, I mean, I think it's lovely to show compassion towards people but you are not responsible for the loan, like you can't fix the loneliness for them either. That's going to be something that they have to work on and work out, because you can feel bad all you want, but it's not going to resolve those feelings unless you're planning on reconnecting with them, which it does not sound like you are.
Jo:Yeah, it sounds like the best thing that was dumped. What was your perspective Like would you have wanted me in that season to feel guilty about, because I know you struggled?
Matt:Yeah, I was not a good partner. I knew I was not a good partner and so I was very realistic about the idea that you had every reason to dump me. Also, I had I just deal with self-hatred in general. So I was like, great, I can be the bad guy. That's where I feel comfortable. But no, I didn't want you to feel anything. I wanted the best for you, realistically and truly I did because I was not being a good partner.
Matt:I was not fun to be around, I was not communicating well, I was not doing all the things that you need to do, just because I was not in a place where I had the capacity or the empathy to relate with somebody. I had my own shit going on and I couldn't get over it. So, no, I just knew I was not wronged. I wasn't. I had plenty of clarity around the fact that it was not out of pocket for you to want out of that relationship, and so was I lonely, absolutely.
Matt:But it also was one of the best times of my life for me and that it taught me to really value relationships, and it taught me that I was going to have to put in effort to maintain and build relationships because before a lot of that had been put on you or the other people I was friends with, it was like it was on them to invite me to do things. All of a sudden, I had no concierge for my life, so I had to do all of the logistics and I realized, oh okay, I might have acted like relationships weren't important, friendships weren't important, but they are, and now I don't have the main relationship that I've had. So it's up to me to fix all that and so hopefully, that other person gets stronger through the process also.
Jo:And if they don't not, your problem.
Matt:Yeah, still, not your problem.
Jo:I sound really harsh.
Matt:I'm not meaning to sound crazy harsh, no, I think that's totally fair, though, because you cannot be responsible for someone's loneliness. And also, you're not going to fix it, you can't fix it.
Jo:No, because at the root of it, it doesn't matter if you were with that person or not. If they're feeling lonely and they're feeling all of those things, they're going to feel them with you and without you, because it's them that needs to work through that. So I'm really glad you updated us though. Yeah, that was great to get an update. We love an update.
Matt:You know what ever wants to update us on the outcomes.
Jo:Yeah, please do Hopefully they were good.
Matt:Hopefully we gave good advice.
Jo:We hit 500 ratings and reviews on Spotify, so thank you for everybody that did that. You can rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. If you do that, the more helpful it is to us and we can keep doing this.
Matt:And I said I was going to put videos on Spotify and it turns out that was more complicated than it had been advertised and it may be a hosting-ish, I don't know.
Jo:Yeah, we're not there yet. Tbd on that. Not there, sorry, but we love you, bye.