Nineteen of Your Closest Friends

From analytics we hope are broken to turbulent family dynamics, we unpack the halftime show’s symbolism, viral backlash, and how to keep parenting aligned with your values without shrinking your life on this week's episode of Overthinking!  Discussion includes:

• broken analytics and redefining success
• halftime show as TV-first spectacle and symbolism
• AI-heavy ads and the uncanny vibes
• community kindness and outreach
• viral clip fallout and gendered blame online
• Word of the Week
• screen time on walls and boredom as a skill
• do kids really change everything?
• travel with kids, expectations, and building a village
• Family boundaries / gentle parenting your family

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Don't forget, you're supposed to send this to 19 of your closest friends or you'll have ten years of bad luck.

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Transcript

The 19 Listeners Saga

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Shout out to our five engaged listeners out there. Appreciate each and every one of you. Name them. Just kidding, we can't do that. That would be that would be wildly concerning if we had the ability to see who is actually listening to it at that level of detail.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

What Matt's referencing is the back end of the podcast. If you want to know how the what do they call how the sausage gets made?

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Yeah. It's like how the sausage gets analyzed. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

It's not really how it gets made, but on the back end of everything, you can log in and see how many downloads there are. And Apple Podcast has tons of like extra analytics, engaged listener, which means that somebody listened to more than 30 minutes of the podcast in one sitting, like sitting, I think it's or something like that. I don't know. I logged in one day after the podcast launch last week, and I was so excited to see the analytics. And I've published over 200 podcast episodes between oversharing, middle ground, and now overthinking. And I've never had an issue. The analytics have always been prompt and accurate. And I logged in and something has gone awry because that first day I logged in and it said 19 listeners, five engaged listeners. And I took a screenshot of it and I put it on my story and I said podcast slay.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Because I thought it was funny. And then you all, well, I don't even know if it was you all that are here listening right now, but a lot of people that saw it did not know I was being silly goofy.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Yeah. But we got a lot of great messages of people like supporting and being like, I'm one of those listeners.

What Podcast Analytics Really Show

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Either people knew I was being silly and laughed with me, or people sent me the most encouraging and kind and keep going kind of messages. And I was almost teary by the time I got done. I wasn't expecting, I thought everybody was gonna laugh, be laughing with me. Then when I opened my phone to see dozens of messages of people just being encouraging and kind, I was like, I genuinely think I have the kindest, most soft-hearted, most cheerleader type of community to have ever existed. Like if they had something to say, it was to cheer me on and like remind me of my worth. It was really cool. Anyway, kind of silly. It's still not fixed. We still have no idea how many people are listening to the podcast. It could be anywhere from 19 to like 25,000. Don't know. Can't tell ya. Uh, we did make it into the top 200 uh shows for our launch day. So that was fun and exciting. So thank you for that to those of you that listened.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

So that feels like more than 19.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

It feels like more than 19, but you never know. Maybe it was a really slow day.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Yeah, just a bad podcast day. Um, but the 19 of you, if you could send it to 19 of your friends and family, have them do the same just to be safe. It's the MLM of podcast. Yeah, exactly. It's a proven strategy, okay?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Um if 19 of your friends listen and then 19 of their friends listen, pretty soon, the whole world is gonna have listened to.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Just tell them that you'll have like 10 years of bad luck if you don't.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

I feel like that's one of your dad jokes.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Um, yeah. The numbers are astronomical after like even two or three iterations of it. It's like then 36,000 people will go to your taco truck every Tuesday. Yeah. It's not limiting returns. I've never seen it pan out quite. I've never gone 100% on it for sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Yeah, what's up with that?

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Uh I couldn't find 19 friends personally. I think that's maybe a recurring issue.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

When one of your friends bring 19 of their friends, you have a hard time then getting 19 additional friends of your own.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Yeah, there's a lot of overlap back and forth. Like they need 19 unique friends.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

So maybe just start with one.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yeah. Sure. Yeah, yeah. That'd be big. If you know somebody that might actually like the podcast, not just 19 random people.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Coming off Super Bowl weekend.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Do you have any initial thoughts or feelings?

SPEAKER_02 4:04

The game, I I was more focused on the snacks than the game, and I feel like that was a worthwhile prioritization of my time and energy. Um didn't feel real invested in either of the teams. We know a couple people that like are on the teams, and uh we No feels strong.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

I was about to say, No feels really strong. Yeah, not no, but like there is someone familiar with someone on the team went to our alma mater.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Yeah, that's it. We were like, well, it'd be cool if they won, but other than that, there was really no and the Seahawks are owned by a woman. I don't know who owns the Patriots.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

I know that he's not a very good dude.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Robert Kraft from the internet.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

I don't like that you know that.

Community Kindness And Viral Reactions

SPEAKER_02 4:47

I mean, he had a lot of news about him that wasn't very flattering. They had a real run there for many, many years of being very successful, so he got a lot of airtime for an owner.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Fair enough.

unknown 4:58

Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

I mainly was sitting down specifically for I love the commercials, I love the halftime show. And the commercials were devastating this year. They were terrible.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

There were one or two that were okay. Most of it was AI. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

There was a you're not a Slock fan. The Backstreet lyrics that just was like coinbase. You're like, oh, come on. No wonder you could afford to uh run a minute-long ad.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

It was just uh the backstreet voice. I don't know. It was just it feels very dystopian. That was cool.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Yeah, that was just maybe not.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

It was similar to what they've always done.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Then what I was really there for was the halftime show, which was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Uh yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Frankly, it made the game look even more boring after. I agree. It's like the game wasn't exciting going into half, and you're like, well, we'll see where it goes. And then they did the halftime show, and you're like, well, that was electric. I didn't even understand most of it, and that was electric. Well, and then the game came back on, and you're like, okay, we're doing more of this.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

The halftime show has progressed so interestingly over the last 20 years, I feel like, because it used to be like a stage and somebody just on the stage. And I feel like each year it's progressed more and more to be more of a show for how it's produced for television.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Well, this was like a music video that was live performed with clearly there's some parts that like where you fell through the roof, and that was a cutaway. And but it it's like a huge stage performance. And I think Kendrick's would have been similar, at least in terms of the style of it, except the audio ruined.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah. The audio last year was really bad, which made it really hard to listen to until you were watching it the next day. And then it was really good because I could understand everything that was happening. This time the audio was perfect.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

It was great.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

I personally think that it struck a really good balance of sending a message while still staying a little bit lighter. And I don't feel like we have a lot of that right now. Like everything lately has felt so heavy and just it really prioritized more like inclusion and love.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

And there's obviously a time and a place for both sides of the absolutely. But I think they did a really nice job with the halftime show. Because it was going to be polarizing enough that the whole thing was not in English, so that they prioritized on the positive sides of things was really cool.

Super Bowl Snacks Beat The Game

SPEAKER_01 7:30

I don't know how much it matters what language the music is in.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

It's done well, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:35

The performance was phenomenal. And I was just like, I'm just happy to be here. We're having a good time.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

And the dancing and the choreography.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Definitely um uh probably lacking on some of the lyrical depth.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

We are, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

We don't got that. We don't have analysis for you there. You know how the the field went out there, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Like the yeah, they so they had all the grass out there, and those were all people.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

What?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

Those like people in costumes.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Yeah, those are all people, and they had a minimum. They had a height minimum, so people had to be at least, I don't know what, like 5'10, 5'9, or something like that. And they're all in grass costumes and they all like run alleyo.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

It is shocking to me. I did not look that up. I've had no analysis, uh I'll maybe I'll do that today, but I did see randomly that like in terms of symbolism, the Puerto Rican flag that he used, the blue isn't the same as the current Puerto Rican flag. Apparently, it was a flag that they banned. There's like a gag order on it in the 40s when they wanted independence rather than statehood. That's that's all I've seen, controversy-wise.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

That's cool.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

All the flags they ran out there were like Pan American, South America, Central America, yeah, Bahamas flags. So again, leaning towards the inclusivity of the performance.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

When you talk about America, that it is Yeah, it turns out there's like several Americas.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

It's like a whole section of the world.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

It's a whole continent, not just the United States.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Multiple continents, really. That's why it's the Gulf of America to include everybody. I believe, I believe that's the principle behind it. I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure the Gulf of America is to include Central and South America and their proximity and make sure that it's not exclusionary to just Mexico. Right. We thought that was selfish. So I'm glad we did that. I've updated all my maps for sure.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Clip that clip that Joe's like, I will absolutely not be engaging that audience. I think that's fair.

Ads, AI, And A Dystopian Vibe

SPEAKER_01 9:41

I uh I don't I I think it's a really funny joke. I think a lot of your jokes are really funny. That's a great joke for you. I get so I don't even know how to word this. In this day and age, comment sections online, I just have to not read comments a lot of the time. Because listening to people or reading what people have to say about things like that, I I have to remind myself I have to be arguing with children or people who are illiterate.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Or there's just people with bad intent that don't want to argue with them.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Who just like are trying to argue and prowl people up?

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah, they're they're not arguing in good fit.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

I'm not in there responding to anybody, and so that's when I hear something like that. Literally, as you're talking to him, like, Matt's rage baiting me right now.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

She's like, I agree with this guy, and I'm I'm gonna lose it.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Well, I don't know that I agree.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

I don't think I I'm right, you don't want to co-sign everything I say for sure.

unknown 10:40

No, I do not.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

She's her own person, these are my own bad ideas, and I own them, and she doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

And I am not forcing him to speak into the mic. Actually, now's a great time to talk about the reason that we never promoted the podcast after launching it. Because Matt and I originally launched our podcast together in fall of 2022. Yep. We were doing really good. I was clipping stuff every week. We were getting millions of views on our clips. Listenership was going up, up, up. Yeah. It was like my third or fourth clip, and I clipped something that Matt said completely on his own without me entirely about.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

I think you were in the clip, but you didn't have to be. Like there was almost nothing you said.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Well, I asked you something about men. I don't remember what you said, but Matt was very uh not anti.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

It was something on the lines of like, did I say men suck? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

I have no idea what you said. All I know is Matt said it, yeah, and it went viral on Instagram and on TikTok.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Probably Facebook.

Halftime As Live Music Video

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Women everywhere were so angry with me. I was getting death threats. I'm the reason there is an epidemic of mental health and men and all. I didn't even say anything.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

You started this before that. Men were fine.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Exactly. It was actually pretty eye-opening for you, I think.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

That was the first time I really saw up close and personal how much we blame women because n almost nobody had anything. If they had something to say about me, it was like I feel so bad for him that he's in a situation where he feels that way or thinks he has to say that. And I I basically had no agency. It was wild for a clip that was 100% me talking, my ideas with headphones and a microphone on a podcast. You would have think I was in a cage, and then like there was a cattle prod that they were like, say these things, say these things. But no, no, they were just like, Wow, this is really sad that he feels he has to do this, and then everything else is like, I can't believe that she made him do that, I can't believe she said that. Like, I didn't say anything, not a word. It was crazy, and that was for sure the most highlighting of the difference between when I speak and you speak on these kinds of platforms.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Well, and I think it was the first time that you started to understand a little bit of uh the anxiety that I've experienced sharing my thoughts and feelings online. I've really struggled with it because I have always, we talked about it on last week's episode a little bit. Like I have grown up a people pleaser. I'm always seeking out affection, affirmation. I love online for the community and the conversations that it's started and the ability I have had to make other people who have had similar experiences to mine feel less alone and feel more seen. I have, however, really struggled with the conversations and the analysis and the way nuance kind of goes out the window when talking about all of it and the way that we talk about others as if they're not human. I think that was your first real front row seat. And I've come, I feel like since then, that's been years now, and I've I've come a long way since then and how things were.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

And I was like, what is happening? Like, what is happening?

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Free will, a learning, a learning curve.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah, it's graded on a curve for sure when you uh are a guy.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Speaking of, we're definitely chronically online, as you can hear, and we want to have a segment called Chronically Online where we talk about things you may really only know about if you spend a lot of time on TikTok and Instagram. And today you had a good topic for this.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

So yeah, back to the Super Bowl. The uh the little cameos that were in the middle of the performance, the house porch.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Casita.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

The casita. Alex Earl was on there. Pedro Pascal was on there. Who else was who else made candy?

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Jessica Alba. Cardi B.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Uh Carol G. Yep. That's the other one I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Yep. Hopefully we didn't leave out anyone that's gonna make us look extra dumb, but there was another artist that I'm not familiar with. I think there were a couple like more Latin American artists.

Inclusivity, Flags, And Symbolism

SPEAKER_01 15:22

But I didn't, I wasn't familiar with her, but I did look up her music. I don't remember her name now though. She was young. The hot ticket was that Alex Earl was up there. Yep. I do you do you even like have context really for who Alex Earle is?

SPEAKER_02 15:37

I know enough to say that I'm invested in the lore and the path and like what the day to day looks like. No, I'm I'm not, I'm not chronically online in that capacity.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

I don't feel like her content's really geared toward men, is what I was gonna say. But then I almost immediately wanted to take that back because I think I've seen a lot of younger generation people talk about that she's somebody their boyfriends follow. Interesting. Like that, like they think she's hot.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Got it.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

And so, which I don't do you follow anything.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

That's not how I use social media, quite frankly. And that's not a like I'm better than people. I'm just like, that's a weird part of it is that we do social media, and so that adds a weird layer to it where I'm like, this is somebody that does our job. I don't know. It has the same vibe as strip clubs for me in some capacity, of like yeah, you're not a strip club guy. Like, I don't like the transactional nature of this relationship. Uh it feels very weird to me, and I don't feel good in this space. So uh, and again, I I'm not trying to be holier than thou. Uh, it's just not for me.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

I do think a lot of men follow her as well. She being in the casino, that was like a big deal because the rumor with everybody online is that she is really Republican MAGA, like that's what everybody says about her. And then for her to have been, and so that's like what all the comment sections have been. And so I thought that that was interesting. It was surprising to me to see her up there, not because of all of that, as much as everybody else that was included was Latino. Yeah, I think. Like, I don't think anybody else.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

I I assume, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Everybody that I knew was, so then I was wondering what the significance. Yeah, maybe we'll find out, and maybe it was to have it be a part of the conversation, like uh uh it's gonna catch attention for sure. Yeah, I don't so I'm curious to see if people have more detailed breakdowns and ideas as to why they think I get really into the cultural impacts that way. Of like, what do you think the thought process was and why? Do you think that it's so that it would open up a conversation? Do you think that I don't know, I'm just curious what it is interesting.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Again, I haven't we're we're coming pretty fresh off of it, so maybe Pedro Pascal being up there made perfect sense. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Jessica Alba looks like she is 22 still.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

So that was crazy. I think she's up there for me in terms of like when I'm thinking of the most beautiful women of all time. I don't feel like she gets talked about, but I think she's up there.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

I feel like she's talked about. Who do you feel like's talked about more? We're gonna talk hot chicks on the pod.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah, let's do it. Do you think that she gets talked about a lot? I don't feel that way.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

The problem is I don't know that I'm having enough of these conversations. I don't know whose whose names are hot in the streets right now.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Um, Margot Robbie.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Is really in right now because of uh Wuthering Heights.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Uh who else? I can't think of this. Is the problem when we talk about this stuff? I need to like prepare before we do this. Yeah. Because I can't think of a single celebrity. Like I can't, I literally can't name one.

Comment Sections And Rage Bait

SPEAKER_02 18:56

That's fair. But we'll prep it. We'll prep this one and we'll we'll debate hot chicks on the next podcast, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

We'll come back around to it. Who's who's a celebrity that you think is like your type, who you think is just the most beautiful person? I don't think I hear Jessica Alba enough.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Her relevance has declined.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

I don't, yeah, I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

I think I feel like there would have been a time for us at least, like oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Like honey?

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Yeah. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

I can't name any men either.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Well, we'll we're gonna look it up. We're gonna just Google hot dudes, hot women, today's hottest women, today's hottest men. I think we need to handle this very seriously.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

I know that you're joking, I know that you're being sarcastic, but you're taking it too far.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Sorry, okay, okay, okay, okay. I'll tone it back. I'll workshop it. I'm workshopping it. Stay tuned. Was there anybody you like expected to see and didn't?

SPEAKER_01 19:48

At the Super Bowl halftime?

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

No, I thought Cardi B was gonna perform.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Like when I saw her in the casita, I was like, oh, they have a song together and they're gonna, and that didn't happen. And then when Lady Gaga came out for a second, I was like, is Bruno Mars gonna be here? Like I had a moment because I I don't know much about him, but yeah, I know he performed at the halftime at one point. I was so happy to see Ricky Martin up there because that man has aged just stunningly.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Stunning.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

It's really a showcase of like people aging well.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

You've got your Pascals, you've got your Albas, you've got your Ricky Martins.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Yeah, it was Ricky's Martin. What?

SPEAKER_02 20:36

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Just a bunch of people getting hotter the older they get. That's true. Because shoot. Yeah, I agree. Good show. Anyway, we can move past the do you have a word of the week?

SPEAKER_03 20:52

Word of the week.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

For those who may not know, word of the week is because I am not illiterate, but I do have a crummy vocabulary. My vocabulary is the size of a P. It's like this big. It's teeny tiny. I can use the words that I have relatively effectively, but I definitely have a lack of specificity when it comes to language and the words that I choose. And Matt hates that about me.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

I have an abundance of specificity. Frankly, too much specificity, a level of specificity that frankly I use words that really aren't that conversation friendly. People are like, uh try again.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

I ask you to use words in a different sentence a lot. Yeah. Like you'll use it and I go, okay, new sentence.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Need a new set of context clues to figure that out. And then if that doesn't work, I just type it.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

And I ask you to define it.

Why We Paused Promoting The Pod

SPEAKER_02 21:46

I love a word that really concisely conveys an idea that has like all of the But does it concisely convey an idea if I have to use it a bunch of times? No.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

And if somebody has to have a Thesaurus to anyway. Because of this, we've started segment Word of the Week where Matt teaches me a new word.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

We broaden our horizons together.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

What is this week's word? Equanimus. Equanimus.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Spell it. E-Q U A N I M O U S.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Equanimus.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

Equanimous.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Does it have anything to do with equations?

SPEAKER_03 22:25

No.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Okay. I hate it already.

unknown 22:28

Define it for me.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

We do often evaluate how likely it is that Joe will use this word ever again. No shot. Equanimous is low. Low low low. Um, having or showing mental and emotional composure. To be equanimous is to stay calm and composed.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Okay, I do like that. Yeah. I would say you're very equanimous.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

I try to be.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

On the outside.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Well, I think that's what it's about, isn't it?

unknown 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Or is it about you're showing composure, I guess. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

It's presenting well inside being an absolute disaster.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

So it's it's like being uh what do they call it? Media trained. Media trained people are very equanimous. Are you sitting a sentence?

SPEAKER_02 23:08

She nailed it without prompting.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

That's it, baby. Word of the week. Equanimous.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

I like that. I hated it at first because I it's not about an equation.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

And it's about equal, like staying level.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

That's equal.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Oh, oh, oh, that's so helpful.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

You should do more of that when we're learning the words.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

We're breaking down the roots. We get into their equanimous. Got it.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Equanimous.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Love that.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Ooh! Okay. What are you drinking today?

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Drinking a diet Pepsi? What are you drinking?

SPEAKER_01 23:39

I haven't even opened it. I have a Sherbert Swirl, but I already had caffeine today, and I forgot when I picked it up to bring it with me. And so now it's just sitting here unopened. I'm probably gonna put it back in the fridge.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Fair enough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

I'm not trying to triple down on the caffeine. I try to keep it under two to 200 milligrams a day.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

So one stout energy drink a day, really, is the uh the cap.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

That's probably for the best. Um, I've toleranced myself into barely feeling anymore, and that's why I need to cycle off of it. But I enjoy a diet Pepsi. That's not a take that many people like. I enjoy a Diet Coke. I don't enjoy a regular Pepsi, but I feel like Diet Pepsi falls in a category a little bit sweeter than Diet Coke, but not as sweet as Pepsi. So it falls closer to a regular Coca-Cola for me, flavor profile wise. But I get a lot of negative feedback anytime I describe this idea to people.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

That's how I feel about being a Gemini.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Okay. Got it.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

I never learned about the Zodiac because people would be like, What are you? I'd be like, a Gemini. And then people go, Oh, I was like, I don't want to know anything about that because it sounds like those people don't like me very much.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

That's exactly why I didn't. I saw that I was a cancer and I was like, that sounds hella lame. Why?

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Cancers are like lovely.

Viral Clip Backlash And Gendered Blame

SPEAKER_02 24:58

I feel apparently that's true. I just didn't like the name. I was like, I think they're very emotional. And then I saw it was a crab, and I was like, that's super lame. And I'm right on the cusp of Leo, and I was like, a lion sounds tight.

unknown 25:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

It was strictly off the animal and the name of it.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

If you would have been born literally the next day, you'd be a Leo.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

I know. And I was really disappointed by that. And so I was like, this is all nonsense.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

You're a cusper.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

I wrote it off because I didn't want to be a crab, and I thought cancer was like, oh, you're a cancer. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

I like that you didn't even learn about it.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Not a bit. No.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Like you went purely off of name. Whereas I went off how people react.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Purely a book by its company.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

This all is very that's on brand. Yeah, on brand for sure.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Just is what it is, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

I 2026 is the year I learned about Zodiac.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

You're getting in on it?

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

I think you started tarot.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yeah, I started tarot so strong. I got myself a deck.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

She's doing readings. It's cool.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

I'm not. I have a friend who collects tarot decks, and they're really cool. And I found an independent artist that I like that had made and done art for a deck, and so I ordered it.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

They're very aesthetically pleasing, I will say that.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

That was the extent of my they are fun.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

But the man who wrote off cancer by its name and being a crab probably is not the guy to go to for um tarot and/or I don't really know much about it either.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

That's why I'm like, I don't yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

As much as it's a podcast about stuff, we try to know a little bit about this stuff for no other reason than we start to sound really ignorant. Should we do bad dad mean mom?

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

A segment about uh the less than finer points of parenting. You have anything this week?

SPEAKER_01 26:42

I was thinking about our kids up until now have thought that the little drawing pads that reset when you press a button, they've thought that's an iPad. Up until about this week. And I think we may have lost that one after they saw their cousin's actual iPads this week.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Yeah, they have older cousins, they've been traveling, they had their iPads. Yeah, we've we've been able to maintain a facade for quite some time that their pencil, if you've seen them, they're they're black, and then you color on them and it's just like a rainbow drawing thing, and then you reset it. They called those their iPads. And G had seen a tablet or two and been like, what's that all about? And we're like, eh, you don't need one. And that was enough. But I yeah, this might have broken the damn.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

But they're not getting one, so it doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

No, big parents mean moms be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

That's one of our uh bad dad co-signs that though. That's one of our only like really strong, I feel like, things that we're like, no.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

It's a it's one of our few lines in the sand, I feel like there's a lot of things that we have feelings about, and we're like, we'll explore that when we cross that road to see really what it feels like at the time and how that's gonna go. Because you can have feelings about bedtimes, you can have feelings about sleep, you can have like all these different things that you I think it's good to have an idea going in and have a stance, and then you get there and you see how your kid adapts and see how they handle the different things, and you you make a new path. But the screens where screens are attached to the wall family. If they're not attached to the wall, we don't we don't do attach not attached to the wall.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

It's only attached to the wall, they've they don't get our phones.

People Pleasing, Nuance, And Anxiety

SPEAKER_02 28:23

Well, if they ever see a like if they ever watch something on a phone, someone set it up for them. Like it's surprising how often people will like offer a phone to a kid. But we've had a lot of success, I think, having it that way. They don't really overconsume media if it's attached to a wall and they have to sit and concentrate and watch it. When it moves with them, then they don't ever have to be bored.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

It can always be better than the thing that they're doing. But when it's attached to a wall, they're like, Yeah, I'm gonna go play with toys. We turn that right back into a positive parenting. It's easy. Anyone can do it. Don't don't clip that.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

We have a voicemail box that you can call and leave us a message, ask us anything, tell us anything. You can leave it anonymous and just let it be your voice. I think that that's important to note. We also have an email address, and we also have a place that you can send text messages, those are all in the show notes. So if you would like us to respond to you, you know, fill out any of those number of things, whatever feels most comfortable for you. We ready?

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Ready. First of all, I'm a huge fan of the both of you. Um but does your life really change with kids? Because I and my husband, like we're both, I think we're ready for this next step of being parents. But one of the things that like makes me hesitate is thinking about like I want to manifest this life where the vibes that we have and like how our relationship is, we just kind of ebb and flow with the baby in there, and like we adapt, but like we don't change. And my friends who have children and like the people that I have talked to, they make it seem like everything's going to change, and like you'll no longer sleep, and you'll no longer travel, and you'll no longer do anything of fun. And I don't want that, but I don't know. Just was curious on your thoughts on that. Okay, thanks again. Big fan.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

I really like your attitude. I think it's really important to go in with an intention, and then also your partner and you have being on the same page of like, we want to do a lot with our kid, we want to go places with our kid, we want our lives to continue. I think you have to have that attitude if you want that to be a part of the process. Now, I also think everything changes, but that the dialogue around that gets really negative really fast.

Chronically Online: Halftime Cameos

SPEAKER_01 30:49

I think there's nuance in how it changes. Yes, I don't think there's any way that your life stays the same. When you choose to have children, everything kind of gets shuffled around and shifts in some way, shape, or form, but that doesn't necessarily like we've been asked a lot if our marriage feels different post-kids. And I don't think that our marriage feels that different. It does feel like our communication and our strengths and weaknesses have been tested further, is how I would express it. I don't feel like the kids make our marriage different or make our marriage harder. I feel like it is just an additional thing that we're working together on that points out where our weaknesses might be or where our communication isn't as strong. Then we have to choose to work together to pursue that. And I also feel like having kids has really unlocked a lot of thoughts about my own childhood that have really rocked my world. I think that's something that I didn't hear anybody talk about prior to becoming a parent that has been really surprising for me. But none of that really has anything to do with my children.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

No.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Do you know what I mean? Like it, I understand it does, but it also doesn't have anything to do with caring for them. It doesn't have anything to do with cultivating a childhood for them. It doesn't have anything to do with the dynamics of our family.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

No. Adding a kid cuts down on your time, like your available time, and it can add cost. But if your intent is to take them to things and you have environments that are conducive to that, I mean, that's some of it too is does your circle of friends do the places you go allow kids? And if they do, or it's workable to figure that out, you can have some semblance of that balance. If they don't, then you're gonna have to adapt. That's a different commentary. Yeah, you know, you you sound very much like you're willing to go with the flow once in you're in that space. So much of it's attitude. People for some reason the commiserating around parenting, and there's a lot to commiserate about. There's a lot that's frustrating, there's a lot that's hard. Again, being a parent isn't easy, but the hard parts are you.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

I think the hard part is culturally, if you live in the United States at least, yeah, we are so anti-child in the way everything operates that there is no support for parents whatsoever. Just doesn't exist unless you cultivate it on your own through a village and that you also have financial means in order to be in the spaces where you have extra hands and extra help. That is hard. It just is. There's no changing that. And so things you can do to counteract that is make sure that you have saved and that you're financially prepared. Having conversations with grandparents or potential soon-to-be grandparents, if those are people that you can see being involved who you think would like to be involved, so that you have an understanding of what kind of support you have there. Because genuinely, I don't think our culture is conducive to making parenting easy. And the whole first year shouldn't be about anything other than becoming a parent.

Culture Wars, Lore, And Internet Perception

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yeah. It's not that you can't do anything else. It's just it's all consuming in the capacity of this thing needs you. Like it has no real autonomy. And as they get older, that changes a lot. And if you have an involved village, you have people that can step in and help you with that, or if you have good childcare options. But parenting children is not hard. Parenting yourself is hard. It's looking at the behaviors that are being mirrored at you from your kids because they see it from you. Everything is just a reflection of the input they're getting. And then being like, oh, that's something I have to work on because they see me doing it. I can't tell them what to do. I have to show them what to do. And what they're seeing me do right now is not working. Um, that's the hard part. That's more of a tangent to the lifestyle side of things. You were talking about talking with parents, talking with your friends. Um, it sounds like you have some parents around you, but talking to friends that aren't parents about how they feel about having kids involved, if they're cool with you.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Um and you can travel with your kids. Totally. As long as you have financial means, I'm not saying it'll go perfectly every time. Like, but we've taken our kids on a lot of flights, and we've had one or two that have been really, really bad that I can think of, but not the majority. And the thing is, we don't get dumb with a bad flight and go, we're never doing that again. We've gone, all right, well, hopefully it'll go better next time. And it has, and we do. And um, sometimes we've had bad sections of road trips where it's really tough and we have to stop, but this too shall pass. And it's about entering in and doing the things, even if it's gonna be hard or even if it's gonna go poorly, and knowing that you can bow out and take them home and you know it's all good, and that you can try again tomorrow. It's not putting yourself into a box. I think a lot of parents put themselves into a box because they find that it's easier to stay in their own routine at home rather than push the limits by going out to dinner or doing whatever it is. And I think we personally have found we prefer to push the limits and like just have a couple nights that are hard rather than always being at home and feeling resentful.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

That your life has stopped.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Yeah. The more you one, the more you do it, the more you normalize it, and the more they get used to it. So, like the flying thing, you have to manage your expectations. The more you do it, the more you normalize it. And you also have to be okay with the idea, like, this is gonna go really poorly, and we're gonna bail early, and we aren't gonna do it's not gonna look how not that it's going to. Yes, but you have to be okay with that possibility and just pivot. You're like, yeah, this didn't this didn't work out. Oops, we'll try it again later, and they'll be more used to the situation and the change and whatever because just like you, they have bad days and they have good days.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

But kids are so resilient too.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

But they're really flexible and they're really resilient, and I think if you make it a priority, you can do it.

Word Of The Week: Equanimous

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Yeah, I agree. Okay, we have one email as well that I'm gonna read today. So, hey, Joe and Matt, I love the pod and I'm so thrilled you're bringing it back. I wanted to reach out about a problem I feel like you'll have good insight on how to navigate in a respectful but firm way. My husband and I are pregnant with our first child and thrilled. Congratulations. My family is great, very supportive of us and our wishes for baby, ready to jump on board with whatever we need and want. My husband's family would say they are supportive, but in practice, they are not. I already have a rocky relationship with them. His mom has not always been the kindest to me, and they are big MAGA anti-vax, Trump can do no wrong kind of people. Very much not me and my husband. We have tried to have multiple conversations with them about politics, and it normally ends with them saying how wrong we are and being disappointed. That's how we view things. I believe change can happen through relationships, and they have put their trust in bias news, and I'm really hopeful they will see the truth with someone helping expose them to it. That's the only reason we still have a relationship with them. All that backstory brings me to my question. We know we want people that will be around our baby to get the T DAP, due in September and not wanting to add extra risk to illness in their first few months of life, cold, and flu season. We will also be vaccinating our child. I don't think they will respect these choices and we'll make that known to us. How do I navigate this conversation? If they won't get the T DAP and are disrespectful about our choices, how do I stay respectful while holding my boundaries?

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Man, that's a that's a challenge. And that's we we had kids when it was COVID and as things followed and as vaccine sentiments changed, and we were fortunate that not too many people really pushed the boundaries on that.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

It's a challenge, but I think it's really just gentle parenting.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

So you to be respectful, I'm not saying this will be easy. There's no answer that's easy here because they're going to respond how they're going to respond, and that's not going to feel good. There's not really a way to uphold a boundary and guarantee that the other party is going to be respectful and kind. Like that's just not realistic. But uh for me, the T DAP was a non-negotiable with my children. To be around our kids when they're infants, you have to be updated on your T DAP. Period. Like all of our family knows it. I have a record of when all of our family has had it. Uh, it's a requirement. I'm not messing with it. I'm not, it's really important to me. And if they don't want to get it, that's fine. They can see our children when they're six months old.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

And and that's the boundary.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

The less wiggle room you have around that idea, the better. Just to be like, and and you don't have to do it in a mean way and be like, this, I think what you're saying is wrong. I think what you're saying is dumb. All these things entrench people in these ideas. And that's one of the problems is um there's not a great way to move people off of ideas anymore. There's just two sides and a gap between where we just call each other stupid from either side.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

And that's really hard to navigate in this type of situation. But just being firm, being kind, being like we expect everyone that sees our kid in the first six months to right boundary is whatever the right uh language around it is. But anyone that is doing this will have the TDAP. The risks are not worth um all of this. And if you get pushback on it, it's like find find the symptoms and the side effects of the diseases that TDAP helps prevent.

Caffeine Limits And Soda Hot Takes

SPEAKER_01 40:56

And I don't even think you have to do that though, because to me, all you say is that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

I'm our our decision is made, and this is what we're doing. It doesn't need to be a debate. It doesn't, you don't need to convince somebody else of why your boundary is legitimate. Like, that's just what it is.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

That's true. This will be good practice for the rest of your young parenting uh career.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

Well, that's why I would say it's gentle parenting, it's the offering to options, and they can kind of say whatever they want or handle it however they want, and that's gonna be what it is. Yeah, that's the part that I'm like there is no controlling that. It is not disrespectful to say this is an issue. Like this is how everyone that interacts with our child is going to be. That's fine. That's a choice that you're making.

SPEAKER_02 41:53

Yeah, it's not targeted, it's not putting morality onto it. It's just an established expectation and boundary.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

If this, then that. And if you choose not that, then this won't. The nice part of this one, especially though, is that time frame. You can be like, this is a time frame, this is when this happens.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

I've always found though it's a lot more effective instead of, for example, I know that for a lot of people they run into the problem where there are people kissing the baby. Well, I find it a lot more effective to just then that person no longer sees the baby, like, or holds the baby, or like, sorry, no. Then talking about it and making drama about it and talking to other family members and being like, Well, they kissed the baby. Did you know? Like, I don't like to do any of that. I like to just have my firm boundary of like, that's fine. They just won't hold the baby until later. And we don't talk about it anymore than that. Obviously, like you communicate to them.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

I think that's a good thought too, though, is making sure you're not perpetuating family drama.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

And just being like, Yes, that is what happened. This is how I'm gonna react to it. You you stick very much to what you can control and what has taken place, and you try not to put too much morality on it. Is it hard? Is it annoying? Yes. But I think that's your best bet on smoothing and navigating this time. I'm excited that you have uh supportive family though. That's really awesome.

Zodiac Banter And Tarot Aesthetics

SPEAKER_01 43:28

That is really awesome, and congratulations. That's exciting. You all can leave us a voicemail at the link in our show notes, or you can write us an email or send fan mail through all the little linkety links down below.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Yeah, the link it up at the top. Uh, if you're on your phone, you can click it, it will set up a text and it will send to us as an email, and um, it will be anonymized and all that. So it's a fun little setup, it's very quick and easy. So if you have thoughts or questions, comments. Concerns. Anything you want us to talk about?

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Let us know. And please rate and review the podcast. I'm going to beg you every single time. I probably should have started at the beginning by begging you. I did.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

I told them 19 of their friends. Oh, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Don't forget, you're supposed to send this to 19 of your closest friends.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

It's an email chain. Tell them they'll be cursed if they don't.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Um, and that they'll have 10 years of good luck if they do.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Correct. That's what we're guaranteeing that here.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

It's uh it's a tried and true viral marketing technique.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Anyway, rate review, and thank you so much for listening. We are very grateful that you're here and can't wait to get to overthinking with you next week. Bye.