The LSAT And The Life Spiral

A goofy LSAT group-text score check turns into a bigger conversation about routine, sleep, and why structure can be the difference between feeling steady and feeling scattered. We spiral from “mystery scores” to marriage patterns, then land on reality TV ethics, influencer money, March Madness, parenting guilt, and a listener move to St Louis. 

This week we talk:
• LSAT quiz bragging rights and the sting of not understanding 
• sleep debt, early workouts, and why recovery changes results 
• needing a structured environment versus free-flowing work 
• rating “mysterious” and what self-knowledge really means 
• self-advocacy versus staying neutral so nobody feels threatened 
• grief not being linear and giving ourselves more grace 
• The Bachelorette cancellation and why video shifts judgment 
• mental health, platforming, and the ethics of reality TV 
• creator privilege, big brand deals, and moral boundaries 
• March Madness brackets and the emotional hedge strategy 
• mom guilt about missing bedtime and why balance matters 
• word of the week: nadir 
• match week tears and respect for healthcare workers 
• advice on St Louis walkability, outdoors access, and LGBTQ friendliness 

If you've got a thought to share or are looking for a bit of advice on something, leave us a voicemail at the link below!

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Transcript

LSAT Scores And Feeling Embarrassed

SPEAKER_00 0:04

I just struggle more than you in general. I don't unless it's LSAT questions and then I dominate.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Oh man, don't talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Don't talk about the LSAT?

SPEAKER_03 0:16

That embarrassed me.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

That embarrassed you?

SPEAKER_03 0:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Why?

SPEAKER_03 0:20

I want to be comprehending so bad.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Comprehending?

SPEAKER_03 0:26

I don't feel like I like even after you explained it to me, I still didn't understand.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

You want to be hyper literal?

SPEAKER_03 0:35

I don't know that I want to be hyper literal. Do you think that that's what helped you so much?

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Yes. Anyway, for background, a friend of ours sent us an LSAT like little test prep quiz from like Kaplan, and a whole group text took it and then we compared scores. And I'm basically a lawyer already. I got five out of five.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

But it made me wonder if you should go to law school.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Just just because I'm so good at taking the LSAT.

Sleep Stress And Workout Consistency

SPEAKER_03 1:00

No, just I don't know. I've just been thinking you need things to do. Last night, Matt was having trouble going to sleep, not to call him out.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

But he was having trouble going to sleep last night because he was gonna have to pick up the house, work out, and record the podcast today. Which is less busy than honestly 95% of the days of your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Uh there's just a lot that goes into the picking up. You were when our schedule was gonna be weird and we didn't know when our childcare was gonna be here. That was a big piece of it. She was here earlier than I expected.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Totally. And I I understand that part of it is you are a very routine person and that it wasn't going to be your normal order of events and things. And so now that you say that, I am understanding that that was part of the stressor.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Well, and I'm I was so close to working out every day this week that I didn't want to blow it on Friday. And I did it. I did it.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

You did it.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

I've been working out every day, and I normally work out at 6 a.m., which I hate. It's the worst. Um, to the people that are like, you get used to it, you're wrong. Like, I don't know that I'll ever get used to it. Granted, I think the people that say that are sleeping enough, and I'm definitely not sleeping enough.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Yeah, that's for sure. I was shocked when I woke up this morning and you were gone. Normally I wake up when you leave for your workout. Yeah. I was out.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Yes. It was uh it was not a lot of sleep last night, but I worked out very hard, which is I'm sure very good for me.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

I definitely looked into it actually today. You consume like 60% more of your own muscle, and you the the numbers are really bad if you don't sleep enough and work out.

unknown 2:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

From what I saw.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

I thought it was a little bad. I didn't know how bad.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

No, it's really bad.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

It's apparently really detrimental to the working out game.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Yeah, that's why I've been trying to encourage you to go to bed earlier.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

I've been working really hard at that.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

That's true. And I haven't been working that hard at it. And no.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

Are you going to now? Do you feel like it changes?

SPEAKER_00 3:08

I might need to. I feel like I'm completely wasting like 60% of my workout.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Okay, I'd like to circle back around to the LSAT question.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

So perfect.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

I the only reason I was saying all that is sometimes I think that you may need a structured thing that you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

An education environment.

unknown 3:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

The problem isn't so much that you don't have enough to do. It's that everything you're doing right now is free-flowing. And I don't think that works well for you. I think it works well for me.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Yeah, I don't know that consulting would be a good fit for that either, then. Because then I would just be working right at the desk. Well, but if I was part-time, it would probably be more of a consulting role, like an as-needed design role.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Not a like maybe you just need to work like a service job somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Could be. And take law school.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

I just relive my early 20s. I'm not 33, I'm 23. I'm in law school. I'm working on waiting tables. Which I never did because I had an engineering degree, so I just went straight into an office job from working hotel front desk.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

I was gonna say you worked the hotel front desk. That's a service shop.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

I could see if the hotel needs a front desk, man. I think I still got it. Yeah. If I still got it, I mean you just have to sit there for like eight hours.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

You didn't sleep then either.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

No, I didn't. But uh I wasn't working out nearly as much either.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

So it was just a detriment to like my brain and my general health.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

Can we talk about wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. LSAT question. LSAT, that's it. The brain.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Back to the brain.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

I got two out of five.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

When I went back through and did it again, I got three out of five.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Which was better.

unknown 4:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

I actually got four out of five, but it was because you told me one of the answers, not because I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah, I did explain one to you.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Yeah. But I got three out of five the second time because the first time I was like, you rushed through that because I'd already done it.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Do it again. And I did, and I got three out of five. And uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Which three out of five was like, I think, in the top or like I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

It wasn't very good.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

I think it's above the median.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

That I don't know that that makes me feel that much better because I don't think there's a lot of literacy.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Well, I don't think the pool of people taking LSAT prep questions is representative of the entire pool of the world for the United States.

Mystery Score And Self-Knowledge

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Did you ever give give your mystery score?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Um, I had I actually wrote something up but forgot to send it.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Because we gave we did our LSAT questions, and then somebody asked, on a scale of one to ten, how mysterious do you think you are? Like, and what was like one being I'm super obvious, and ten being I can look.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

Do you want me to look at what it says?

SPEAKER_00 5:51

I think it's better if we wing it off the dome and don't get it right at all. Okay. No, you should look it up. I'm mine.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

Um skip out. I line. Okay. How mysterious do you think you are from a scale of one, not mysterious at all, to ten. No one knows my inner self, and if they think they do, they're lying.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Got it. I was gonna ask a clarifying question. Okay. If you don't know yourself, does that count as mysterious?

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

If so, I'm gonna give myself like an eight out of ten.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

I would say that you're up there.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

If not, I'm a five out of ten. Like I'm I'm a father of three that lacks mystery. Like there's enough.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

It doesn't have to, but I don't understand how those things are correlated at all.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

I just feel like that's not a mysterious role.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

I don't think that you're mysterious by trade. Like by personality, I don't think you're uh mysterious, but I think that you are so out of touch with yourself that then makes you mysterious.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Is it mysterious if you also don't know yourself? Because it's like if you know me, then I think you're also making it up because I don't.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Okay, if it counts eight out of ten.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Yeah. I'm like a one or a two.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Uh yeah, I'd give you a two to a three.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

Yeah, I'm bottom rated mysterious.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Your only mystery is that sometimes I think you lie to yourself.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

About reality. Oh, tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

I think you can tend to polish like the reality of your situations. Like if they're complicated or if they're not like positive.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Okay. I simplify.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

You simplify, you you give people the benefit of the doubt, even if they don't deserve it.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

You'll like you'll go that way. So your life looks more simple than it is. So less mysterious.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

What I'm trying to figure out, do I embellish?

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Am I trying You'll gloss over the the gritty parts.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Gloss over to me isn't the same as what I'm asking. Uh I'm asking, am I Are you delusional?

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Is that what you're asking?

SPEAKER_03 8:09

No, no. I'm asking if I am like trying to one up people. Like, am I doing that? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

No.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Thank you. I just want to clarificate.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

The only thing you ever embellish is like your own accomplishments and not to one-up people, just to like I embellish my own accomplishments. Well, I don't think embellish is the right word.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

I feel like that's exactly what you're doing. You know what it is?

SPEAKER_00 8:28

You are a full-throated advocate for yourself. You're like, I'm doing cool stuff. Yeah. I'm hypersensitive to like ever making anyone feel any kind of way, which means uh I'm hyperactively like even when we are doing cool things, I'm like, it's not that cool, it's fine. Yeah, you're also cool.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Cause I'm like always worried about.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

I think that's been a point of a contention in our marriage.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Totally. Yeah, yeah. It's caused us a ton of problems.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

And that like I'm constantly trying to like even level out the cool things we're doing or the good things or what's going positively. I'm like, but not so positively that you should feel some kind of way, like you know.

SPEAKER_03 9:07

Yeah. You're trying to position yourself in a way to not make anybody feel anything.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Hyper neutral, yeah. Yeah. And then you're like, why do you keep like negging what we're doing? It's making me feel like what we're doing in our life is pointless.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

And then you pointed that out to me, and I was like, oh yeah, I gotta stop doing that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

It's hard for you.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

That is uh I've come a long way with that because I, in my younger years, I feel like I've always been a pretty confident and secure person for which most part I have things I'm insecure about, to be really clear. And I have some social anxiety, especially in my adult years. I have. It wasn't until later in life that I realized being like I just thought I was great. And so I was like, I'm great.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

And you are great.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

Thank you. Other people would take that as me telling them they're not great, but I was like, I'm great, and you're great, and we're all great.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I avoid that because I understand that people that are insecure don't usually receive security well. Like that will make them feel targeted, whether or not it should. Like if you're constantly comparing yourself and you feel insecure in your own position, you're gonna take someone else's positive position and you can project that onto like, oh, they're great. And they're saying I'm not as great if I'm not doing that thing, if you don't feel good about where you are.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

Why do you think it is that you're so caught up in how other people are feeling? Because that doesn't seem like your personality to me.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

On my own?

SPEAKER_03 10:42

Yeah. Um I know that that's how you are, but it it kind of throws me because in our household and in our family dynamic, I don't feel like you're, you know what? Here's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. The people closest to you, I don't think that you consider their feelings really at all in a good way. Not like in a um, I don't mean like that you're walking all over other people, but I mean you're very good.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

You don't think about the people you care about.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

No, it's not that you don't think about them, it's that you don't center their feelings, is what I'm saying. I said that you don't think about them for the other thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

And that time, like with you, I was like, oh, she's so confident, she's got it. Like it's fine. I don't need to make you feel better. Someone else who I don't know or is less secure.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

The I don't know part's what really throws.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

No, I don't know, but like someone else that I I get the feeling that they're less secure or they could feel some kind of way about you talking really like affirmingly of yourself. I'm like, I'll make that person feel better because Joe feels awesome. And she's always gonna feel awesome because that's who she is.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Whoa. Yeah thanks.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

That's uh but I ran that right uh past the point.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Right into the doesn't feel so awesome.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Yeah, she's like, uh, it seems like Matt really doesn't think what I'm doing in my life or at all is like worth anything.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

I think we could do a whole episode on this.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Probably.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

I've gone down a rabbit hole. I apologize.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

LSAT. No.

SPEAKER_03 12:07

LSAT, no.

unknown 12:08

I think we were past that.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

Uh anyway, what do we have any updates on the week or what we have going on?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

I've worked out five days in a row. That's my update.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

That's incredible. I'm really proud of you.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

You feel really good about that?

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yeah, I feel pretty sore. Yeah, I bet I do feel somewhat accomplished for sure. It will get better because there was a period of time where I was doing that pretty regularly, like four or five, six days a week.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Yeah, for months. You've only not been doing that for a month or two.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Well, but it's like two months now that I haven't been doing that.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

But you've still made workouts every single week.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Close. We we had a very sick period of time.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

We did. That's true. Where uh I don't have anything this week really.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

No, last week was so dramatic. I feel like it's made this week feel very uneventful.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

I feel like I have not been probably giving myself enough grace in anything this week because I've been really down on myself that I haven't been posting regular content and like a lot of my normal. And yeah, I think I should give myself a little more space in that because someone told us recently grief is not linear.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

So yeah, I think you I think you like really powered through it. Not powered through it, like you you did a good job of feeling it and experiencing it, and I think you had a time frame where you're like, I'm gonna feel it and experience it, and then after that, I'm gonna hit the ground running. And it turns out like that's not actually how that works.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Yeah, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

And so there's less of a I think you felt it, and then when you did stuff, you felt like I'm really doing stuff because I'm working through this, and now that it's more in the rear view and it's not present, especially for other people. It's it gets more blended, yeah.

Bachelorette Canceled After Leaked Video

SPEAKER_03 13:55

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Uh, that's all I got. I do have chronically online. Wait, actually, I'm all over the place today. My I was gonna say, is that Mani open or no? That's what I was about to say before. I I have a good Chronically online, and I don't think you know about it because you don't take in a lot of headlines.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Definitely not this week. I have not been online.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

Yeah, so I have a really good one, and I think Matt's gonna be totally surprised.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

And uh, but first I want to open my drink, and I've been waiting to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Got it. We should speed you up.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

No, okay. I I haven't been like this on a podcast episode in a long time.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

No, you're you're looking alive.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

I'm chipper. I'm drinking a strawberry sunrise Alani.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Okay. What are you doing? Those are good. I do enjoy a strawberry sunrise.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

Yeah, I feel like I stole it.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

I had an already opened Diet Coke.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Uh, you didn't steal yours, or you didn't steal mine. I drank it this morning, and uh you wanted it, and I knew you were gonna want it, and so I went and got more.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Oh, thank you. Yes, I didn't know that it was mine. I thought I was taking something from you.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Well, when we got them at the store, you were like, Those are good. I would like to drink one of those. And then you didn't drink one, and I drank them both. And I was like, That's okay. I should replace it because I know she will want this one.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

Yeah, I'll drink it if it's there, but I was not bothered. You've been on a real Sherbert kick, and so I think the strawberry's been a nice little I love the Sherbert one, but I have drank it into the ground. Yes, yeah, yeah. I also did that with the cosmic stardust for a while. I just go through phases. Anyway, uh Chronically Online this week. Okay, for those of us chronically online, it has passed over into mainstream media a little bit. Um that you know The Bachelor.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

I'm familiar.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

You used to watch The Bachelor. I've only watched one season ever.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Uh I my preference was The Bachelorette just because the dudes are just easier to make fun of. Maybe that's just Well, we are talking about The Bachelorette, to be clear. We aren't talking about The Bachelorette? We are talking about The Bachelorette. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

That's you loved The Bachelorette. You used to watch it with your buddy.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yeah, we did. We had like several years where we kept up with it and uh had thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

Yeah, I loved that. I thought that was fun. It was. And completely separate from any women in y'all's lives. No. Like you did that for you.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

How did we start?

SPEAKER_03 16:18

I have no idea I wasn't there for that.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

I wonder if he started or if I started.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

We weren't together.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

No.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

Like when we got back together, you were like, hey, I can't talk. It's Bachelorette, whatever night of the week. And I was like, what? Since when do you watch The Bachelorette?

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Yeah. That was when it had really a it was very in the like culture.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Very in the culture. Um that sounded a little a little much. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Okay. Well, Bachelorette airs on Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

And you do know that Taylor Frankie Paul from Mormon Wives is The Bachelorette.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Yes. I did hear that, and I am that sounds riveting, kind of.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

Huge headline yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

ABC has canceled The Bachelorette. It's not airing Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Can't like cancel, or they're delaying it, or they're just canceled.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Well, it's as of now, like cancels what they're saying.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

It's canceled on paper.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Yeah. That it's not airing.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

I know it doesn't do the numbers it used to, but that's no, like they already have it all produced. I was gonna say, I think.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

Or I don't know about produce, they have it all, like it's done filming. It's wrapped in filming.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Yeah, yeah. It's in the can.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

Yeah. Like they've already paid everybody and all of that because are you ready?

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

A video of her assaulting her ex came to light. But it is a video of the exact interaction that she got arrested for that they covered in season one of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Okay.

Why Video Changes Public Judgment

SPEAKER_03 18:04

And that was covered for anybody that's like really online that watched mom talk in real time uh as these girls were blowing up online. All of this happened in 2023 or 2020, I don't know, a while ago. And uh it was all in the police report. So everybody that followed knew what happened. Okay, but the video of it leaked, leaked. They think it was the baby daddy. The I don't know. I I'm not good. I haven't watched the videos or know the details very well, so sorry to anybody listening. But anyway, because the video has leaked and people have watched it, now they're canceling it, and everybody's like, what the hell? One, you chose to platform this person when you already knew about the arrest, and all of this was detailed in the police report, which was public and people knew about. So why now that it's on video? Somebody did point out though, with oh, who was it the the NFL player that only got suspended for two games for Ray Rice, I think.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

For sexual assault, and then the video domestic domestic violence. Yeah, domestic violence, you're right, you're right, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Sexual assault, I don't think that was No, you're right, you're right, you're right.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

But he got suspended for two games, and then once the video of exactly what the report said came out, he got suspended from the NFL entirely.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Yeah, seeing is believing for a lot of people. And sometimes when you see it, you're like you're gonna feel a different kind of way than just reading it, especially if it's older.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

I don't understand that.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Um, yeah, I do you're but the problem is you're better at making moral judgments. That didn't sound right.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

No, I don't like that at all.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

No, like I I just feel like you have a really defined set of morals and you're not flexible with that in terms of this is right and this is wrong. And I don't mean that in a like there's not a lot of nuance to it. Like your understanding of nuance, but you still maintain like this is right and this is wrong. You're willing to hear out nuance, you're hearing like willing to I understand that even bad good people do bad things. Yeah, it's so it's not necessarily a moral judgment of the person, but you're like this action was wrong, and I will make decisions based on this action if it crosses a line. Especially when it comes to violence. Like you're yeah. Weird, but you're you're anti-violence.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

I think that there's a time and place, but in my ideal world, um, there isn't a need for it.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

Like I I I think I sound really naive to say there is no need for violence, because I think that if I really meant specifically like domestic. Oh yeah. No, I don't think there's a time or place for domestic violence.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

I'm not trying to make a sweeping statement on the use of force and it's not.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

It had to have been the baby daddy.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

I don't know that that's the important part of the story.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

I I think it is relevant because everybody thinks he's the one that leaked it. I think it is him. Okay, and that's why it was part of season one of Mormon Wives, is because he was they were dating. I don't know. I haven't kept up watching it because we don't have Hulu anymore.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Oh yeah. Well, when we did, we were still behind.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

No, I watched all of it.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

You watched all of season two without me?

SPEAKER_03 21:32

Yeah, it's what they're in season they're filming season.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

We were halfway through season two and you just stopped watching it with me.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

And then you finished it at some point.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

Sorry. We can go back. We can it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

I'll go back.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

You've apparently watched it all, and well, if we get Hulu again, I'll I'll watch the new season with you.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Uh just discovering this right now.

Reality TV Ethics And Mormon Culture

SPEAKER_03 21:56

But anyway, it's been talk of the town because. People are kind of talking about well, when we platformed her to be the Bachelorette, we knew that she was somebody really struggling with her mental health and probably in a mental health crisis.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

From isn't that like half the show?

SPEAKER_03 22:16

Well, that's the thing that a lot of people are talking about. Is like what are the moral implications of us taking in this when so many of them are struggling with mental health crisis? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

Which then makes me go, isn't that kind of anybody that goes on reality TV?

SPEAKER_00 22:33

I was gonna say there's a whole Real Housewives series of franchises that basically turn that into their whole deal. And to some degree, it's like varying degrees of real. Like the shows are produced for entertainment. And yes, ABC had to know what they were getting into. Like it's not like they didn't vet this person. They they knew what they wanted the drama of it.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

I feel like it probably was gonna do numbers.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Well, that's the thing. Is everybody's shocked because Mormon Wives is hot, hot, so which has been crazy to watch from a content creator standpoint.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

It's been wild because I remember when they started plugging that they were gonna be doing it, everybody was like, nobody's gonna watch that. Like that's how people were acting toward it. And I remember thinking, I think people are gonna eat this up.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

People don't understand though how many content creators online are Mormon.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

That's true. Like or Mormon adjacent.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Sure, ex-Mormon, but they're they come from that Mormon culture, yeah. And so even a lot of people that are online, especially if they are ex-Mormon in terms of like they're not talking about being Mormon or whatever, that a lot of those, especially the early creators, were Mormon.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

A lot, yeah. That's true. I didn't we learned that as because we got into that world. Big photographers, though, were too. I remember learning that when I was traveling for photography and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

And I totally we would go on shoots. Or you went to more, but like I even I went with you to some and we're like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Again, they were Mormon. And then when we started getting asked if we were Mormon, I was like, oh, because we were content creators.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yes, yeah, yeah. We've like, yeah, aren't all content creators? You're like, actually, no.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Which is funny to me because I don't think growing up I knew anyone that was Mormon.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

I mean, we grew up in southwest Missouri. There's not a strong Mormon presence there.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

There's not.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

We have a chapel here. Chapel?

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Uh sorry.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

Go into the chapel. We have a temple here.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Yeah, yeah. We have a Mormon temple. There's Mormon temples all over the place. They use it to buy up property. They're like one of the biggest landholders in the US.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Yeah. They're very financially.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

That's a whole different thing. Well, yeah, I know. That's why so many of the big business owners.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Pretty sure it's still a 501c, so they uh don't pay taxes. Fast.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

It's a good gig. It's a good gig.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

If you can get it.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

It's a good gig if you don't have really rigid moral high ground.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

That helps, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

High ground? I don't think that's what I meant to say.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

If you just think you're better than everybody else, no.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

It's the prosperity, you know, gospel of like that's never makes sense. The better you do, the more God loves you.

unknown 25:15

You know?

SPEAKER_00 25:15

And that is that's what they kind of know that specifically that that's there. I mean, some people like the more some real mega pastors have definitely like.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

Don't they have like tiers of heavens?

SPEAKER_00 25:26

I don't pretend to know the intricacies. There are like planets that you get and I thought that was like Scientology. Pretty sure it's Mormon.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Okay, Matt and I do not know what we're talking about. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Listen to us. If you're interested, look it up. But yeah, there is like some I don't know. It's like somewhere between Christianity and Scientology.

SPEAKER_03 25:48

I genuinely know.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

That'd be a bad take. I feel like that's gonna offend Scientologists and Mormons.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

That's probably true. I uh anyway, I'm just really interested to see how things proceed or if anything is done.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

That that show costs money to make.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Like I said, in this day and age, I don't know how they're not. Did not fact check this. This was a random person on the internet that said she was in television production, so could could be nothing.

SPEAKER_04 26:16

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

But she said that she estimated five to seven million per already into it without production being wrapped entirely, like just in the filming and all of that. Oh and the pre-production, and then that doesn't include advertising and all of the PR push that they've done.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Well, and they've I'm sure they've pre-sold advertising.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Yeah. And then I saw saw another thing that somebody was like, ABC's gonna be losing 144 million dollars on this.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

And I that's probably lost profit. Right. I think it's not like it cost them 144 million dollars.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Correct. That's what I'm saying. It's like overall with not running it. So I don't know if that's advertising dollars.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

I'm sure a lot of it's like advertising spots, especially if it was expected to do well. Again, talking out of my ass here, but like they do pre-sell advert and same thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

I don't know if any of those numbers are real. I probably should not be perpetuating.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

We can say whatever we want.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Right, right, right, right. Just give us a mic and that gives us authority.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Yeah. Have you seen this set? It looks legit.

Young Marriage Meets Sudden Internet Fame

SPEAKER_03 27:24

Yeah, it does. Good job. I had a lot of feelings when they originally selected her to be the bachelorette in the first place. I I don't actually know that I follow her, but I've seen her content for as many years as you know, she's been mom talking. I think there is a lot there that I feel for a lot of these women who have gotten married really young and they've had kids really young. And I don't feel like they are being equipped with good perspective. Like they're just being told your job is to be a wife and to have children and to maintain a home. Not that there's anything wrong inherently with all those things.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Some of them are getting married at like 1920.

SPEAKER_03 28:09

Right. Like, well, that's Michaela. Yeah, yeah. She got married, I think 17. I don't know. It's really young.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

It's crazy young. And so like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

That's young, but uh emotionally and mentally, that's really young. Not that you can't get married that young and but my niece and nephew are 17. Yeah, but the people like whoever you're if you're going to get married that young or be in a long-term relationship that young, you are gonna change so many times as a person. It's like anytime we get questions on the podcast of what should we do? And they're like 23, you're like, I don't, you're like not the a full, you're not your full self yet. Right. And that full self will change too as like life goes on, but you're definitely not at like 21, 22, 23 or 17.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

And so not only are you getting married before you've gone through tons of changes, then you go into social media and you get all of the income and the freedom and the mobility and like all of that gets added in and the feedback, and so you end up in this alternate world and you had no basis to begin with. Like, I think that's something we really um and we used to talk about this more is we grew online when we were already in our mid-late 20s. Late 20s, and so had a much better sense of self and values, and like we had worked through a lot of that not online. Yeah, doing that online is totally different.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

And we also already had security, we had financial security, we both graduated college debt-free, we both got good jobs and were working full-time, we owned a home, all of those things, and and we also have the privilege of our immediate families, like our parents and our siblings are all stable and on their feet.

SPEAKER_04 30:05

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Like, not that anybody's doing anything crazy, but I think a lot of people that blow up online all of a sudden have access to money and uh connections that they didn't have prior. And same. I I didn't either. But if you don't have the security of everything already feeling like a good foundation, yeah, then people are trying to take care of their families, they're trying to take care of their parents, they're trying to take care of their siblings or you know, nieces, nephews, whatever it is, and they get overextended that way.

Influencer Money And Moral Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Well, I think the other thing that people don't think about as much is you've gotten to this point, maybe you're making all of this money, then you have the fear of losing like I have to maintain it. Or what if it goes away? And so that's again another. Let's just talk about our privilege and all the things that we've uh hashtag blessed.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

Um no, I just goes away, we still had it's a perspective that I like to add to the conversation because I hear so many people with hot takes with hot takes like, oh, they're selling out, or oh, they're doing that really stupid ad or XYZ to these content creators online. And I don't think it's taking into consideration the level of privilege that you have to have to be able to have somebody come to you and say, Hey, I'll give you$80,000 if you post this video.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

You need to then have the understanding and also confidence that more is going to come to you if you say no.

SPEAKER_04 31:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

You need to have the financial security that you're prepared to pass on that kind of money. And then you also have to have the moral foundation, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Like you have to have a really solid moral compass of like, this is what I believe and this is what I don't believe. If you're wavering at all in that, why would you be like, well, I'm gonna totally take a stand against this thing because it's like, okay, well, I I don't feel strongly about it one way or the other.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

So Right. And that's not to say there's not a larger conversation there about that some of it's right or wrong.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Like, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

About the impact that people doing those things has. I just don't know that the blame is to go on entirely on the individual. I think there's a lot more nuance to it than that.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

It's just complicated.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

It is, it's complicated.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Most of the people that have a lot to say don't ever put themselves in the position of like, what if it is a like if someone offered me$15,000 to do a thing, would I say no to that? And it's easy to say if that's not on paper in front of them.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

But I think a lot of people make different decisions.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

And I'm sure there are plenty of people who would. And if that's you, fantastic. Like, I think that's great. I'm glad that you have your foundation built out that much and that you really know who you are.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

It's just easier to say online.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

It's easier to, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

And I also think that like mom talk, Mormon wives, real housewives, all these shows that platform these people. The kind of people who get into those jobs, especially lots of content creators, you're already seeking something by choosing to post online. You just are.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

If you feel totally satisfied in your life, you're probably not going online.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

And like and that comes from somebody that posts online. Like, I understand my job is posting online.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

You enjoy it.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

Like you like doing that.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

But there is a piece of it that you like building a community because you lack community.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

You're trying to fill a anyone that that like if you're not trying to fill a hole, why would you go online and workshop whatever it like?

SPEAKER_03 34:06

Right. I don't know. There's just correlation there, is all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Anyway, I've probably taken this chronically online moment.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Perfect. That's why I can't make content for shit, you know? It's just again, blessed, but hashtag blessed.

March Madness Brackets And Emotional Hedges

SPEAKER_03 34:21

Okay, we'll we'll take a little detour from Chronically Online. We are March Madnessing in our house.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

And I know that this is not in real time, so more games will have happened, but we have a first few days of March Madness under our belt, and I'm absolutely killing it currently.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

You are killing it, actually.

SPEAKER_03 34:43

I don't know. I might be a March Madness Sabant.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

You might be a basketball savant.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

Probably.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

She knows ball.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

I do.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

She knows ball.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

Yeah. I have watched only Razorback games and only a handful, but I know what's going on across basketball. She's got her finger on the ball. I I know. I did feel like you were kind of irritated.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Irritated? Um, it's really early. Also, I will say March Madness is not one that I get really uh like I like watching it. I like watching all the schools. I think it's really fun. It's really cool to see smaller schools really pull off something that you know is so meaningful. It's it's fun to watch uh big teams that you don't like very much lose. Um there's a lot of that that goes into it. But I don't, I've never there's so much randomness in it. It is one of those things that I'm like, who knows? You can you can never like any given basketball game, wild stuff can happen. Yeah, injuries can happen, and all of a sudden, like your really good team is falling apart. Basketball's so individually talent driven that one person makes a huge difference.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

And so refereeing makes a huge difference, like all kinds of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

Where are you right now? You're in the what percentage of like 60th.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Yeah. My bracket is like I don't feel like it's busted. It's just I feel like some of the bigger upsets happen. I I probably did have North Carolina going around or two more. And they that was a big upset.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

Yeah, I had that much.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

I feel like I'd lost any big that one. But you only have them in one more like you got all of the first day picks except two, and neither one of them affects you past like the next round.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

Yeah. It's not like I had them going all the way.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

No, you have like your whole sweet sink, like whole sweet 16 left so far. It's day two, okay, just to be clear. Yeah, we're thinking there's a lot to happen. There's yeah, probably gonna be six upsets today that completely blow both brackets apart.

SPEAKER_03 36:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Regardless. We are Razorback fans though, so my bracket is an emotional hedge. Uh, because I feel like we could I feel like Arizona is gonna beat us. Yeah. Because Arizona's really, really good and they're kind of built to beat us, like some teams have beaten us. So I would love to upset. I mean, we gotta get to Arizona first, but I would love to upset them. But if my bracket's picked the other way, then I'm right in the bracket.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

So that'll make you feel good. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Yeah, it's the emotional hedge. It's the emotional hedge. Some people do that with betting. They're like, I bet against my team, and so I either win money or my team wins.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Right. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:27

I'm glad that you don't do sports betting, but yeah, it's not for me. Um no.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

It's uh yeah. Yeah. No, I uh I have an addictive personality, and I don't need to get into sports betting.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

You've known that about yourself like since we were really young, I feel like. Like which part? Sports betting or uh the addictive personality part. Like I think we were in late high school or college when you're like, yeah, I'm not gonna do that. I think I could be addicted to things.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:57

And I was like, huh.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Yeah, there's definitely a uh I'm just gonna not start so that I can not have to stop.

SPEAKER_03 38:04

Yeah, I think that's a good attitude, a little bit with some things.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

It's better than not knowing, yeah. Right. And just being like, no, I just really love this thing and I can't stop.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

I can stop anytime I want, but I don't want to.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

Exactly. Uh so bad dad, mean mom.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Bad dad, mean mom. Has anything been too bad? Again, the the weeks have flown by.

SPEAKER_03 38:22

I am so I was gone in Florida a couple weeks ago for multiple nights, and then I am doing multiple nights away again.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

On the plus side, you're not far. Like if something really I know.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

I'm staycationing with friends for a friend's 30th birthday, and I think I'm just having some feelings about it because I feel like most moms never miss bedtime.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Like most moms I know are always there for bedtime. They do bedtime.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Well, I'm most moms.

SPEAKER_03 38:51

Okay, which doesn't make me feel good. Sorry, that's yeah, that's inherently that makes me feel even worse because we're the best dad, though.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

Just kidding. You're a really good mom. I and I'll you know what I appreciate? What is that our kids get to see you like actively involved in your own life. Like you are not completely consumed by being a mom. Like it's still really important. You think about the kids, you still do so much more of the mental labor than I do. But you also prioritize, like, I want to see my friends, I have work that I need to do. They get to see a much more balanced lifestyle from their mom. And I think that's really good. I know it feels like you're not fulfilling everything that you should be as a mom, but I think it's really valuable that our kids get to see it. Oh, thanks. And so, like, I I appreciate that. And then they get to see a dad that is there in the capacity more so than a mom would be expected to be there.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

And they also they're like, Dad, do you work? I'm like, I'm supposed to, but it's a mixed bag. Some weeks yes, some weeks no.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

But you've been on the mental health journey.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Which is a privilege.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Yeah, truly, truly.

SPEAKER_03 40:04

I think it's been really good for you.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

And I I think it will be really good for me. Yeah. We're getting there.

SPEAKER_03 40:09

But for my bad dad mean mom, I I really do. I feel bad when I miss bedtimes. Because I'm usually the one doing bath time and I do G's hair and I like it.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

And you're better emotionally regulated. So when bedtime does go sideways, we gotta call mom in.

SPEAKER_03 40:27

Yeah, those are the kinds of things that I always reliably do. And I have not, even when I've gone out at night, I never miss our baby's bedtime. I almost always do his bedtime.

unknown 40:38

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 40:39

Because I think I have more of an emotional attachment to like the little, little years than you do.

unknown 40:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:45

And so I really make that a priority to be there for that every night. And just being gone to Florida for a couple nights last week or two weeks ago, whatever, and then being away for bedtime two nights. I'm feeling like a mean mom.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Again, you're not that far away. Maybe we'll come up and visit you over the weekend.

SPEAKER_03 41:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Could always do that, do lunch.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Something. Could take him up to like the museum or something.

SPEAKER_03 41:11

I had an idea of something, but now I don't remember what it was.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Like I could take him to the museum. Right, totally.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

Totally. Anyway, so that's what's on my mind. It's like it's just I know, it's just the first thing I thought of. For you though, you had a perfect week.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Yeah, it was a perfect week. Everything's gone really smoothly.

Word Of The Week: Nadir

SPEAKER_03 41:31

Uh, word of the week.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Word of the week. Word of the week. Nadir. Familiar with the word nadir. You've probably seen it. Like in books.

SPEAKER_03 41:43

Nader. N-A-D-E-R. Nadir?

SPEAKER_00 41:46

N A D I R.

SPEAKER_03 41:48

Okay. I have no idea. Nadir Nadir.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Nader. Nadir.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Nadir. It's the bottom, like the very lowest.

SPEAKER_03 41:59

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Lowest or worst point of something, representing a time of greatest adversity, despair, or depression. It's also like the opposite of like the zenith. You know, like the zenith is the peak.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

I did not know that. Okay. That's good to know too. The zenith and the nadir.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

Zenith and Nadir. They're like the opposites.

unknown 42:18

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

They also have like meanings in other things. Like I think the Nadir in medicine is base level of something, like the white blood cell counter.

unknown 42:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

And then in astronomy, it's like the point below the observer of the stars or whatever, and the zenith is the top, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

It's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

Nadir. I like that. Yeah. Maybe I'll try to work better.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

But it gets used as like rock bottom.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

Okay, cool. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

You'll probably see it. I feel like you read like fantasy books and stuff like that. I'll probably notice it now. I think it'll be in there.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

I've probably just skimmed over and gone, no, don't know what that means, and kept going.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

You're like, I don't remember that character.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

Do we have emails, text messages?

SPEAKER_00 42:55

Yeah, emails and text messages. We bullied you guys last week.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

And uh tried to guilt you with our dead dog, and it worked. We forgot to mention early in the podcast, though, which is what our plan was.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Did not nail the plan. All right, let's kick it off with a voicemail.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Happy Wednesday, friends. I just wanted to say, I hope Joe's in the same spot as me. Right now, my entire feed is just doctors getting matched with their profession and where they're going and that they're gonna be a doctor. And I'm crying at every different person that I see and their amazing accomplishment. And it just made me think of Joe and how she's always crying at all of the Olympic um stories. And I hope that she is doing the same thing alongside me right now. Crying at people on the internet. Anywho, Ludger Guys' last episode gives me a reason to wake up every Wednesday.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

Thanks. I love match week. That's true. You're so passionate about it. Well, and it started earlier this week because they everybody's been posting this time, like this match season, they've been posting their confirmation. Email that they've been matched, but they don't know where their matches are yet. And today's match day that we're recording. We are recording on match day.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

Oh no. You're gonna be missing.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

All weekend I will be watching my for you page as people find out where they are going and where their hard work and accomplishments are taking them, and I will be weeping. It's I I love a heartfelt hard work story.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Yeah, you really do. When I found out it was match week this week, I was like, oh, this is like your Super Bowl.

SPEAKER_03 44:33

It is. I which I have no ties to medical anything. No, but I love it.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

Hey, this country needs doctors. We're all watching the pit.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

Yeah. It's my sister worked in the ER as a nurse.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

And so talking with her, it's like I kind of thought I had an idea of what that might be like.

SPEAKER_04 44:55

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

And watching the pit and hearing from her. And we have a couple friends that are ER docs and stuff, and hearing from them. And them being like, oh yeah, that's what it's like. I'm like, I I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Well, I mean, for I think I think it's kind of like what we talked about during the social media part is seeing really changes people's perspective. And it's done really. Yeah, but it's it's witnessing the ins and outs of it and those stories being told, and that I mean, hopefully it makes people uh to compartmentalize that.

SPEAKER_03 45:32

Like I have all I have a lot of respect for healthcare workers as it is. It's not like there was ever a time that I thought differently, but I feel like it's making me want to put a lot more effort behind advocating for change in those systems.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

Yeah, I mean I hopefully hopefully those kinds of things do come. That's I'm sure a purpose of the show is um making sure that people recognize everything that goes into it and everything that needs to be fixed because there's plenty of it.

SPEAKER_03 46:05

But now, uh maybe somebody should make a uh prequel where it's just all the people on the pit and their match days.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Maybe that's an episode, but maybe we can just touch on that. I don't know if you're gonna be able to do that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

So like I saw a couple that were checking their emails together this week, and the they found out that they both matched into the programs that they they don't know where yet, but they one matched into ortho and one matched into OB, which was both the specialties that they wanted.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 46:39

So because I think the way it works is you I believe you highlight like what specialties you're interested in, but I think you put two or three. Okay. Like you have your top one, and not everybody matches into their top. I was gonna say, I don't even know how it really works. So like you have surgery, I don't know. I I don't know what sounds crazy, but like maybe you have Pete's family medicine, something else, or you have surgery, ortho. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

I'm I barely even know what doctors exist. Uh what?

SPEAKER_03 47:14

Oh, like which I I feel like I know that pretty well.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Yeah, you have uh again, you have a lot more medical experience than I do.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

Yeah, but not like real like just from being uh advocate for a patient more than anything else. So I don't know anything from the medical side what sure, but just more experience in the healthcare system.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

I don't have a ton of it.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

Yeah, you yeah, you really had never even been to a hospital for myself, not until I crashed my bike in college.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Yeah, and you made me go. I did because my elbow really hurt. I thought I had for sure chipped my elbow. Yeah, I turns out I was just beat up.

SPEAKER_03 47:49

Yeah, which it was good. It was good to confirm.

Moving To St Louis Walkability

SPEAKER_00 47:51

Yeah, totally. Let's hit an email and then let's uh it's getting hot in here. Somebody has some uh a question about moving. Hi, Joe and Matt. I wanted to start off by saying I've been a longtime listener, love the pod, first time writing in. My wife and I, double wife household. So shout out. Are gearing up to move over the summer for her job. One of the options is St. Louis. We're in our early mid-20s, have no kids, pets, we have no existing family or friends in that region of the country. Currently live in Boston and have grown super accustomed to living somewhere walkable and rarely needing our car. Are there areas we could live that would allow us to walk rather than driving for everything? We love spending time outdoors, local coffee shops, spontaneous weekend trips. We've also been interested in getting into camping. I'd love some recommendations and would overall like to know if you recommend to move to St. Louis given our interests. Also, from your perspective, is St. Louis LGBTQ friendly? I know you have the experience, so figured you'd ask the professionals.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

Um, I would move to Northwest Arkansas. Everything I'm hearing from you, I'm like, you need to live where we live. You like camping, you like outdoor activities. You could live like in prime Bentonville and walk everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:06

Uh you lived in St. Louis, I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Yeah, I feel so bad. Like, I wasn't well integrated in the city. I do think there's some areas, especially. I feel like it's kind of set up because it's got like these little pockets, pockets that you live in, and then if you have to travel elsewhere, it's kind of a whole thing. But I do think like in the central and outside of that area, I mean, even downtown some, but downtown's where I lived, but I know there were pockets west where people kind of had their own communities. I do believe it is LGBTQ friendly. Like I think in terms of I mean regional.

SPEAKER_03 49:41

The rest of Missouri, sure. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

But I I think there is a strong presence of that. Yeah, I'm sure. I mean St. Louis. It's a city. Yeah. Just I I do remember that being like a top.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

That's why I was like, I don't have an answer for that at all.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Yeah, I think there is a fairly strong community in that area. Granted, you're moving to Missouri, so um not the best state on the state level for that kind of stuff. I agree. Same with Arkansas, but yeah, again, Northwest Arkansas though has a really strong community in it. Yeah, I have a strong community locally, and I wasn't integrated into that community, and so I can't speak to it firsthand, but I do know that I had heard plenty about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:18

In Northwest Arkansas, we're a lot more integrated into the LGBTQ community of people here. Like we just are in a way that when you were single and living alone in St. Louis.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

I wasn't integrated into any people.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

Well, that's what I was about to say.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

It's it wasn't like a it wasn't like just me and all the straight white guys. It was like it was just me.

SPEAKER_03 50:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Just going to work with a bunch of 55-year-old engineers, and then watching The Bachelorette at night. Yep. Connecting with uh my remote friends however I could.

SPEAKER_03 50:44

The thing I was gonna say is I don't know how much outdoor activity there is in that area.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

That's more of a there's the park, but uh outside of that, I mean you're not gonna camp or anything.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

No.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

St. Louis is at least kind of central that like you can get to a lot of places. You're you're less than three, four hours from a lot of weekend trips.

SPEAKER_03 51:04

You have Chicago, yeah, Springfield, Lake of the Ozarks.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Yeah, so I guess there are definitely things, but you're gonna be I that's the opposite of not needing a car though.

SPEAKER_03 51:15

Right, totally.

SPEAKER_00 51:16

I so to answer your questions. I think there are pockets, you'd have to look a little bit more neighborhood-wise in terms of and it's been ten years. Ten years since I've lived there almost. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, it's been ten years since I've lived there. And I wasn't doing a great job living there when I did. But um I think there's areas. It may not have everything you need, but there would be little little burbs that would have areas.

SPEAKER_03 51:42

You liked your time in St. Louis.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

Yeah, it was fine. I just like I don't have strong feelings about the city, positive or negative. Like I lived there, it was fine.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

There's a lot of fun stuff to do there. Like you can go to the Cardinals games and a lot of people are like passionate about the especially that are from there.

SPEAKER_00 51:57

I feel like are passionate.

SPEAKER_03 51:58

It has a community that is very passionate about where they're from for sure.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

They're really into winter where they went to high school.

SPEAKER_03 52:03

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

It's like a high school city. Like people talk about where other people went to high school.

SPEAKER_02 52:07

Kind of like Little Rock. Little Rock's that way, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 52:10

Is it? I don't I don't know Little Rock well, but for some reason, anytime I was out, people were like, Did you go here or here? And I'm like, I didn't go to St. Louis.

SPEAKER_03 52:18

I feel like Little Rock is kind of that way.

SPEAKER_00 52:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

Where everybody knows all the high schools and the Springfield's not that way at all. Not that people never ask where you went to high school, but there was so much more overlap of activities, and kids knew one another from so many different things.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Northwest Arkansas doesn't have that many high schools.

SPEAKER_03 52:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

So there's a lot less of like where'd you go? It's like you went to like one of the handful.

SPEAKER_03 52:44

Right. Like if you're from this town, you went here. If you were right.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

But there's a lot more like private schools and various like in St. Lovis, yeah. Little Rock too. Yeah. That's probably what it is. They're just like more private schools.

SPEAKER_03 52:55

Private schools, more normal. Yeah. Whereas here the public schools are in Springfield, there were like two private schools. Three.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:01

I can think of three.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:02

And the graduating class of one of them was like three.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

Yeah, also true.

Closing Thoughts And Follow-Ups

SPEAKER_03 53:07

So well, on that note, I we have more voicemails and more emails. So we will send them in. Be a little heavier on that next episode. And we love you, and we hope you're having a great week and enjoying March Madness with us.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

Yeah. I hope we see what happens with The Bachelorette.

SPEAKER_03 53:23

Yeah, I know. We'll do a follow up, I guess. Yes. All right. Bye.