We Go To Vegas And Come Home With A Neck Injury

We come home from a Vegas weekend feeling like fancy butterflies and sore caterpillars, then spiral into the surprisingly emotional stuff that sits underneath a good time. We answer listener emails on taking better family photos without pricey gear and addressing postpartum depression, medication, and why getting support has nothing to do with your worth as a mom. 

• Vegas trip recap and the whiplash of getting dressed up 
• Headbanging neck injury and why timing kills tattoo plans 
• Roulette as a social sport and the “mutual fund” betting strategy 
• Why gambling feels awful when you hate losing 
• The “top horror stories” trend plus our personal picks 
• Why making returns feels impossible and the Revolve credit saga 
• Word of the week: lithe 
• Leaving kids for a few days and what secure attachment looks like 
• Beginner-friendly photo advice: light first, gear second 
• Entry-level camera tips
• Postpartum depression stigma, antidepressants and separating identity from symptoms 
• Reframing motherhood expectations using the “dad rubric” 
• When you start feeling like yourself again postpartum

If you've got a thought to share or are looking for a bit of advice on something, leave us a voicemail at the link below!

https://www.speakpipe.com/overthinkingpod

If you'd like to message us you can use the email below or the text link at the top overthinking@theoverbys.com

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Website:  https://jojohnsonoverby.com/

Transcript

Butterfly Confidence And Vegas Glow

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Well, I'm back in caterpillar form.

SPEAKER_03 0:07

Caterpillar. It's caterpillar form.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

I think of myself kind of like a forever-living caterpillar butterfly combo.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

Oh. It's the circle of life, but just for you. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

And I'm a cute caterpillar. Like it's fine. It's not like one of the ugly ones that you go, ah! It's not like that. You know what I mean? Um, no, it's cute. And you're like, oh, cute. And then everybody expects me to like become a moth or something. But then I shock everybody and I'm I'm I get really fancy. You know? And that was me this weekend in Vegas. I got really fancy, and people were like, what the hell? She's a butterfly? And then I go back home and I'm like, no, I'm a catabilly.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Nah, just just sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Just sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Just on special occasions.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Yeah. I'm sure there's a better uh what word am I looking for?

SPEAKER_03 0:57

Metaphor?

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Yeah, I bet there's a better metaphor for it, but no, not for you. Not for me. I like it to make just a little bit of not sense. You know?

unknown 1:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

No sense made.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

You like to take a metaphor that works and just tweak it. Give it a little twist.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Tweak it. So people are like, wait, what? I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

A never-ending butterfly caterpillar.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Got him.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

Butterfly caterpillar.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Infinite butterfly caterpillar.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

Do you cocoon it all or just uh yeah, sometimes. Yeah. Nice part is when you do a metaphor, then I'm like, should we break it down scientifically?

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Wow. No wonder people like listening to us. Just kidding.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Oh yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Yeah. The podcast cancelled. No, I uh really am shocked every time I get dressed up. We've been taught, we've talked about this. You're shocked.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

I think other people are shocked.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

I'm not shocked by me dressing up. I'm shocked by how people talk to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

The reaction.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Which, since I don't wear mascara, that's always been kind of a thing. Because when I wear mascara, people are like, wow.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

It's true. You're like, if I really need just a little pop, eyelashes.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

I'll wear mascaras. That's it. It will be like, whoa. Uh but it happened at the lake launch party, and then it happened while we were in Vegas. So anyway, I'm feeling ride out of the case. Yeah, I feel hot. I was like, now I'm kind of back to cute caterpillar, but that's all right. But this cute caterpillar knows she has a butterfly inside.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

She's got that butterfly confidence.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Yeah, she's got that butterfly in her.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Love that. Yep, that's what they say.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Well, this was unhinged.

Headbanging Injury And Tattoo Logic

SPEAKER_03 2:37

It was. No, this was a good start. This is this is on brand for us. We've done worse.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Uh, how how was your weekend?

SPEAKER_03 2:43

My weekend was good, other than that I uh have mildly injured my neck from from tell people what that's from.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Let them know. Fill them in.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Uh, from overly dan dancing, would you call it dancing?

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Sure. Um headbanging.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Yeah, there was some headbanging involved. I like that for about three hours the next day. I was like, I think this is because we went to that show and I had to look up the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

I I was so confused.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

I can't believe you didn't correct me. You're like, do you remember the pool party where you jumped and like headbanged?

SPEAKER_02 3:20

You're gonna be like, headbanged more or less?

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Yeah, for uh seven hours.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

We were there for seven hours.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

Uh time wasn't uh I'm never good with time, and time definitely wasn't being registered well at the pool.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

That was good.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

We went to Vegas this weekend to celebrate my friend Chloe's 30th birthday. It was her golden birthday, and it was our first time really doing Vegas. We'd been to Vegas twice prior for a like little bachelorette bachelor night before a wedding.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

It does make a difference when everybody's like and we had to drive, we're gonna go have fun, but we also do have to drive somewhere and we have to do a wedding. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

It was just different. And so this time it was a true Vegas experience and it was a lot of fun. We had a great time. It was our first time leaving all three kids to go. And we kind of specialize in doing two-night or three-night. I feel like a lot of people will do like a full vacation away from their kids. I don't know if it's just because our kids are little, maybe as they get older, we'll be more inclined or able to we just don't have the child care situation.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

And I do think as they get older, it becomes more like logistically possible for more people to watch them. Like your options expand a little bit. Not that we have a deep pool of people that just there's a lot that goes into watching a one-year-old.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

You know, like that's a full-time and it it was hard.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

It was hard being away, but it was really fun. We had an incredible time. And Matt had banged right into an injury.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a muscle. It it just you don't normally, if you're not used to just whipping your head back and forth for hours, uh, it turns out that muscle doesn't just uh stay there or really take kindly to that just happening out of nowhere. Maybe I needed to stretch.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

I thought Matt was gonna get a tattoo.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Uh well, I mean, I think the biggest obstacle to tattoos happening is that we realized we had a pool party the next day and that we were gonna be in the sun andor water a large portion of the day. Which best case, we do a good job protecting the tattoos.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

And worst case, we get a deadly infection.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Worst case we get sepsis and or just a horrible tattoo issue from abusing the absolute hell out of it the next day. I think you're supposed to get them and like hydrate and take care of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Yeah, well, one of what's right here.

SPEAKER_03 5:56

I don't have one, but hydrate and take care of myself.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

I have a but they're so they don't even really even when somebody's looking, I'm like, it's right here. People have to look at it.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Why do you were starting a show? People was like, oh, you have something on your oh, that's your tattoo. I didn't say anything out loud. I just was like, um thanks, babe. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

I like them too. I want more.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

If we get one, are you gonna get another red one?

SPEAKER_02 6:17

I want another red one, but I think I'm only gonna go to the girl that did mine. Like, she's so good, and fine lines, such a true, like separate skill. It's a very different kind of tattooing.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Tattooing is an art in general, and then it's a specific discipline, very much so.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

And she did such a good job with mine, and they are so sharp, and they've not really blurred out at all in any kind of way. And that's without the touch up, and so yeah, I don't want to go anywhere. And she doesn't tattoo men, she wasn't even gonna ask. She only tattoos women. Yeah, which I think's awesome. It is. Uh so I'll probably go back to her. So, yes, if you'd like me to get a tattoo, if you're asking me to get matching tattoos with you, I will on her anniversary? Sure. But I just have to make an appointment to go see her.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Got it. Okay. And then I will get one that matches.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

No, you're first.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Oh, okay.

unknown 7:09

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

You're a thousand percent first.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Because I don't trust that if I go do it.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

That I will go do it.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Yeah, but if you go first, you know that I'll go do it.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

I'm reliable. As are you in other ways.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Good save. Good save. As are you, kind of. Sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

No, I don't think it would be intentional. I it's not that I think you would intentionally not go get the tattoo. Sure. It's just kind of how you were talking about earlier that you're not great with time. Yes. It'll be like a decade later and you'll be like, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

Yeah, we got time.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

I never made that appointment. And I just can't be that girl. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

I don't want to be like, yeah, we have matching. Well, uh, and then trying to explain, well, when did you get that? Well, four years ago. It's don't worry, he just hasn't made the appointment. He loves me. He loves me. I promise. He's he told me he was gonna get it.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

I don't think you're using the word reliable correctly then. I think you can use well-intentioned. I don't know that reliable is the word to go for.

Gambling For Fun And Odds Talk

SPEAKER_02 8:12

You are very well intended. I gotta open my drink. I can't stop yawning. This is an absolute disaster. I'm so sorry, everybody. I'm having a rock star today because it's what was in our fridge.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

You've been back on a rock star kick. Why are you on a rock star kick?

SPEAKER_03 8:28

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

I just That was crispy.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

That was much better.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

You have anything you want to share with the people?

SPEAKER_03 8:33

No, I'm trying to just drink a lot of water, hydrate the muscles, hydrate the corneas. My eyes looked absolutely shy.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

You looked like you were on a lot of drugs.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

I looked like I was doing a lot more than drinking, and I was not, but my eyes told a different story.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Yeah. What why is that?

SPEAKER_03 8:50

I don't really know. I can get dry eyes, but they were really red. It was probably a combination of drinking more than I pretty much ever drink and not sleeping. For a weekend where we didn't have the kids, we slept as much or less than when we have the kids.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Vegas is so crazy because everybody's out. You can go anytime and things are packed.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Yeah. So I have more kids than I thought in Vegas.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

And like out at times that I was we've gone there for weddings. And so, like, people that are that have their kids, I mean, their kids might be in the wedding. It makes some sense that you're gonna see a few kids out. It's just like when you're out at one in the casino and you're like, that's a stroller. Okay.

unknown 9:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

I mean, do your thing. But could not be me. No, I had a lot of fun. Love the pool party. We did a little gambling. We're not really gamblers.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

I had a social gambler. I'd never gambled before. Really. I mean, I shouldn't say that. I have gambled before, and it was such a miserable time to me. I was like, I'm never doing that again.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

Maybe that was the lesson.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

This time I did come in with a little bit of cash because I was like, you know what?

SPEAKER_03 9:53

Well, because you're 34 and 33 and not 21.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

I'm not 33 or 34, Matt.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

32? 27? Damn. Sorry, I'm 33 turning 34.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

So I knew what happened. But when you corrected yourself and were still wrong, I was like, actually, I can't even talk.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

I one time filmed a campaign with a brand, and in the video, I said your age wrong.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

And you just rolled with it.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

I didn't know until after I posted it. Somebody was like, I thought Matt was 32 at the time.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

And I was like, oh and you said I was 33, I think.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

No, I said you were 31. I went young.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

Oh, okay. Well, that's better than what I just did, which was double double age you up.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Yeah, it's okay. I'm not offended. I just made me laugh. Anyway, I I took a little bit of cash because I was like, I'll give it a try. I'll try anything once. That's kind of my memo is my memo? Your memo. My M-O. My gosh. We uh started on roulette and it was all of us playing together. I was like, oh, doing this socially is so fun.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

You were really funny at roulette. You've you were doing things I've never seen done on a roulette table. Well, it was on a screen too, so she's just like ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping. I'm like, uh okay. The odds are the odds. Like, it doesn't really matter what you do.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Matt was explaining my strategy as the mutual funds of You did it one time.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

You were betting this third, and then you bet a bunch of numbers, but in this one section. And so you'd look at the payout, and you could make at least part of your bet back on almost the whole board, but you only really made any amount of money on like a specific section, but not a ton of money. So it was. I was like, this is the mutual fund approach. You're just like, you either slowly lose money or you make a little bit, but not that much. It's not, it's not really in the spirit of roulette, but I liked it. It was very true to brand.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Yeah, well.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

No, it's good. You lasted a long time playing the game. You weren't you weren't going broke right away.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

No, no.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Which, you know, you were there for a long time, not a good time.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

I had a good time.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

You had a really good time. That was funny.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

I had so much fun.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

I find gambling difficult um for a couple reasons. One, I've never done enough winning. I have an addictive personality, plenty addictive. I probably could be really into gambling. I think there is just the slightest amount of me that's like, maybe that's not the thing to get really into. Let's not go there. Two, I hate losing more than I like winning. And so the highs don't really hit the same, and the lows make me pretty irritated.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Irritated's a understatement.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

Yeah, it's I'm I'm couching it a little bit. And then the math background for me. I'm just like, well, the longer we play, the more the math works.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

I will say that was the most insufferable part about being in Vegas. I had a great time.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

I know that about me.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

I I just had this little rat in my ear the whole time going.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

Rat's rude.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

I just had this little voice in my ear the entire time going, Well, you know the odds are stacked against you. You know that you know that the odds are the same no matter what. You know that technically, like the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

That's the voice inside my head, okay? So um I know that's not fun. So I don't do that generally speaking. I try I try not to do that with other people, especially. You know, it was it was leaking out, but um, yeah, I know that's not a fun experience to be around. It's just what's happening in my head. Someone's like, what are the chances it hit two, three times in a row? And I was like, exactly the same as three other random numbers if you picked them specifically. But people don't like to hear that, and it's not a good vibes play. So I'm not a good vibes guy.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

It wasn't it wasn't bringing down my vibe at all. It was just making me giggle. You were really, you were not being a a mood halter.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

I'm there to have a good time. It's just the gambling specifically for me.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

The math doesn't math for me.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

The analytical side of me goes, What the fuck are we doing here? Oh, okay. Again, I think if I had done more winning, if I've come out a little up, I've come out, I mean wiped out, I've come out a little down, and I'm like, oh, okay. Especially when I'm down, I'm like, well, I could have just bought something cool and like I'd have it tomorrow, I'd have it next week. Could have eaten in Vegas, you know? Some good food out there. We did. We did, we also did that, but I have a better time spending my money at a restaurant than I do.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

I digress.

SPEAKER_03 14:23

Yes. I'm like, I digress, you digress.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

You digress.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

You digress. That's probably what we need to do.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

I that's something new. Since you have started on new medications and overall seem a lot happier, which is phenomenal, and I love it.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

But you just will go on and on and on about the same point.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

It's good for podcasting, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:47

It's really no, it's really refreshing. I like it because I'm getting so much more of your thought process and your opinions on things, and I really value that part. But when we're podcasting or when we're talking to people, I'm like, uh, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

You're like, we try to rap in an hour. Uh you've done 25 minutes on gambling.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

25 minutes on the math of gambling.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

Yeah, and then you came back to it later. I like I don't know what you thought you missed, but you tried to do eight more minutes.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

So um was that we recorded an episode a couple weeks ago where I kept trying to like I capitalism was it when I kept talking about capitalism? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

It's like by the way, that ties into capitalism as well.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

I wish that everybody listening, I do and I don't. I wish you had heard all of the, you know, so they understood what gets cut out.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

There was the there's the Schneider cut of the podcast. They're like, good God, this thing's insufferable.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

No, yeah, no, that's not what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

This thing by thing, I mean me.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

No. Anyway, chronically online this week.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Chronically online.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

If you're chronically online, you've seen the trend that is my top horror stories. I you saw mine, I think.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

Yeah, yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

So you upload a picture video or whatever, and then you write on it your top five horror stories, and uh everybody put all kinds of different things. There was a wide range.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

In your case, you put like a picture of you looking hot by a pool.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

I put a picture of me looking hot by a pool. I did butterfly, you know?

SPEAKER_03 16:14

You've been doing, yeah. You've you've got a lot of hot pool picks.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

I got a lot of hot pool picks.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

You're hit, you're feeling yourself.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

I don't have a lot of hot pool picks from Vegas, though.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

We have a disappointing amount of I took, I want everybody to understand.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Hold on, I'm gonna return to Chronically Online. I have almost no photos or videos from our trip in comparison to what we did. I think I took in total maybe 10 video clips over three days.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

I feel like we have fewer picks from our trip than people who don't do content on the internet would have from their Vegas trip.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

We went and we took so little, a huge weekend that we had a lot of fun at.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Which was totally fine. Like we were very present and not, but it was. I wish that I had video of some things. Not even to share. Just like I wish I had a video of you headbanging, just for my memories.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

Yeah, someone might. Yeah, hopefully not.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

Okay, so my top horror stories I wrote are one, exclusively pumping, two, less than eight hours of sleep. Three, just you wait. And also I'd like to extend that. It's not just you wait, it's well, you don't understand yet. Like you'll understand when you're older, you'll understand when you're my age.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

You don't like being talked down to and then told like you just you can't get it. You'll never get it.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Because you're not my age. I will never be that person's age when they are that right. Yeah. And so it's not a useful form of communication because you can always leverage that if you want. We will never be the same.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

It keeps the playing field uneven. Because that's a good point. Because even when you're that person's age, they were that age in a different time and space. Totally. So like even if you're like, well, I won't be the same age as that person, like, well, one day you'll be my age, but we also won't be where that person is.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Well, and also it's not really relevant because it insinuates that I can't grasp another person's reality whatsoever.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Well, it doesn't really insinuate it, it just straight up says, like, okay, you can't get it and you won't get it.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

You can't get it and you won't get it. And to me, I just think that it's emotionally lazy. Yeah, like exceptionally emotionally lazy.

SPEAKER_03 18:25

It's kind of an escape hatch for a conversation to just be like, well, I'm making this decision and it's the right one. I don't need to explain why. It makes me really angry. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Sorry, I didn't mean to expand that much.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

I think yeah, they got that it makes you angry. I think.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Yeah. Oh, it is a horror story. Uh, number four, the current administration.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Valid.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

And number five, making a return. There's no one who hates making a return more than Joe Johnson.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

I don't love making them, but it's my job in our house.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Yeah, I I hate it. Actually, yeah, I have some to make. You do. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

Yeah. Which the last time I had those to make, I pushed it to the last minute, but I did get it done. Okay. It got it got done not quite exactly when it needed to happen. Hey, that helped you this weekend.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

It did. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

I had I returned it a little late and I could only get store credit.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

I'll give the whole story. I was shopping on Revolve because we were going to a black tie wedding. And I was six months postpartum. I wanted to feel good at this black tie wedding. So I ordered like four dresses from Revolve. And when I ordered well, I went shopping like in real life first. Couldn't find anything. Nothing was working. And Matt said, Why don't you order something online? Because I never order online. And he said to me, I said, I won't return the stuff. That's why. Because if it doesn't fit, I will not return it. Yeah, you're not the person who's not going to be able to do it. I know that about myself. I do not order online unless I know I'm gonna keep it because I know I won't return it. I just know it about myself. So I don't do it.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

How a lot of people feel about phone calls, that's how you feel about going into UPS.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yes, 100%. And so Matt was like, it's okay, babe. Order the stuff. I will make the returns. I promise. And I said, okay. So I ordered four dresses from Revolve and a couple dresses from another place. It found one that worked, returned everything else was the plan. Matt waited till the very last day. Hey, kind of reliable. You got the other one in time.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

Yeah, the other ones I sent in, and that was fine.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

But the Revolve one was what, a day late or two days late? It was really close.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

I'd had it packaged on the counter for like two weeks, is the really annoying part is that I'd had it ready. A part of me got 90% of the way there. And then was like, all you gotta do is this last 10%. And that 10% waited like two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Well, anyway, they ended up letting you return it still. Yeah. But for store credit, then we're getting ready for this trip. I uh didn't love what I had to wear, which is funny. I'll get there. Um trying to figure stuff out, can't find anything, not wanting to go too crazy. I want to wear some of what I already have in my closet, but I want to feel really good. I told Matt, I'm like, I just can't find anything. Everything's so expensive.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

Well, I was like, we actually have a significant amount of return credit there.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

I had totally forgotten. It'd been six months and I just hadn't touched it.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

So you're like, oh yeah. So and we're gonna get a significant amount of it back.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Well, yeah, I'm I'm keeping hat, I kept the top that I bought and a pair of shoes. But none of the dresses I'm returning.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

All right. Until the next time.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Yeah. Thanks for making my returns.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

Yeah, no problem.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Let's not get too ahead of ourselves. That hasn't happened yet.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Okay, what are your top five horror stories?

SPEAKER_03 21:35

Oh, okay. Top five horror stories. It's a good question. It's a good question. I won't use the current administration. That's just kind of a layup. You already got that covered. Going to bed early. You said getting less than eight hours, uh, going to bed early.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Sleeping, actually, I think.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Yeah, I just feel like I'm missing out on my life while I sleep, which is insane.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

That's insane for somebody who dissociates.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Who uses so little of his awake time productively?

SPEAKER_02 22:04

That's not true. You do use it productively. A lot of people just not engaged. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

Who's going through the motion?

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Yeah. I don't think that's who you are, though. I feel like we're being really critical of you today. I feel bad. That's all right.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

It's our anniversary.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

No.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Um it's it's a time to reflect on the past seven years of ups and downs, especially downs.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

No, it's not funny.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

A little funny. What else? Uh starting something, stopping something. I feel like starting something new, I don't like doing, stopping something that I've gotten into like the flow state of doing, hate doing that. What else would be a good one?

SPEAKER_02 22:42

I like that it's just been going to sleep, starting, stopping.

SPEAKER_03 22:46

We'll go speci uh being being the photographer's plus one to a wedding where I only know the couple. We've only done that a couple times. There's nothing like being at a wedding and then being like, how do you know the couple? And you're like, mainly through the through the photographer, and they're like, Who are you with? I'm like, with the photographer.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Well, to clarify, it would be that I'm photographing a friend's wedding. Sure, absolutely. And we know them. And so they it would have been a wedding that if I was not a wedding photographer, we were probably like, Yeah, like I was invited to, and you were my plus one too. But then I was working.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

Yeah, that the couple liked you and liked us, but you were working, and so oh Matt can come. And then I'd go, and then you'd just be at a table with people with how do you know the couple? And you're like, We're friends.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

We're friends through my wife, but my wife is here working.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

But my but my wife is the one over there with the camera. Yeah, you're not you're not gonna see her this whole time. So she can't give you more background into this. I'm just I'm just kind of here having dinner, hanging out, dancing by myself. Anyway, that's not the ideal social situation for me. I've had fun at those two.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

It's just no, that's so fair. So fair.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Um, and then hot beverages. Don't like hot beverages.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

Should I post that one?

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Yeah, you can. I was expecting different okay. You give me my or I no, no, no, no, no. That's fine. I like I was expecting, like, when I was thinking of yours, I was thinking the hill next to the parking garage at the bottom of in front of Bell Engineering. Uh I was thinking of uh For context, I crashed my bike on that hill. Bad.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

I did. I did a complete flip over the handlebars.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Uh I I was thinking maybe leaving things on tops of cars.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

Oh, yep, that's good. Uh I thought you were gonna say leaving things on tops of counters, and I was like, that's like my passion.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

You said no, that's your worst thing. Um, and then maybe 2015.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

2015, just as I that's the year. Yeah. Wasn't great. Those were the highest. 2016, I really, you know, started working out though.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

That was 2015.

SPEAKER_03 24:48

Yeah, I guess so.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

January 2016 is when we like saw each other again. But then we were both dating other people until like June. And each other.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

Yeah, it was a not it was an intended.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

That sounded not how I intended it. We were both like we casually saw each other again, but we weren't ready to be like, we want to get back together and date again. So we were just kind of feeling things out while we were also both still actively taking dates with other people. Yeah, we were it's not like we were like exclusive with anybody.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

No, we we'd be breaking down dates that we'd gone on with each other.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

That should have been the first red flag.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Truly, there were a lot of very questionable flags in that era, but uh it worked out. We got through it. Yeah, my top four stories.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Oh that was never, we always just kind of vibed over it though.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

I we were pretty both eyes wide open. That makes me think of the pool. Oh, yeah. One of the security guards was talking to one of the guys at in our party, and he's like, hey, if I can give you one piece of advice, just keep those sunglasses on all day. The number of couples I've seen that came in here really happy and left really not happy.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

To be clear, we were at a pool that is a like club environment, kind of, and so there are all kinds of women and men and little teeny tiny swimsuits and servers and teeny tiny swimsuits.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

There's some professionally hot people there.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

If that's an issue for your relationship, that was maybe maybe a miss for you. That's that's what the advice was all about. Hey, if your eyes are going places, keep those sunglasses on.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Ew.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

And I was like, I'm I'm pretty sure Joe would be like, we're we're seeing the same thing here. I I get it.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Yeah, you're also not uh I'm not an ogler. No, not that.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

It's an uncomfortable situation.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

One, I've never heard you make a comment about uh really even about my body. Like, I don't think I've ever um I'd like you to objectify.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

Yeah, I would like to be objectified more. No, frankly.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

I don't think I've really ever heard you make a comment on anyone's body or appearance. Yeah, I try to do it. Like even when we leave somewhere, I think there are ways to do it respectfully, but I don't you don't even do that.

SPEAKER_03 27:07

I definitely won't bring it up.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

No.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

If somebody has an observation, I may be like, yeah, no, but I I find it's safest to just not just not talk about people's bodies.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

I think that's great.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

Um, you know, there are things people can control or can't control, but you don't really know the situation, and some people's bodies are there's bodies out there for everybody. We all got 'em. I mean, hopefully.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Maybe that's ableist, but uh well, I think everybody's got something.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Some form of a body. I mean, unless you're a disembodied head. And then um, thanks for listening. I don't know where I'm going with that, but yeah, anyway, bodies. Yeah, I try not to comment. What is happening?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Oh, I like this podcast.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

It's dumb.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Word of the week.

Word Of The Week Lithe

SPEAKER_03 27:54

Word of the week. I do. Uh speaking of bodies, it gets used with bodies a lot. Are you familiar with the word live?

SPEAKER_02 28:00

No, I so Matt actually asked me this before. He doesn't generally ask me about the word of the week before, and I can't lie and pretend that he hadn't. And I asked, I'm just gonna recount it to you instead of pretending.

SPEAKER_03 28:13

Why would we prep this podcast? We just do it on air.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

L-Y-T-H-E is what I thought. And then you told me it's L-Y-T-H-E.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

L-I, you just said the same spelling twice.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

L-I-T-H-E. And I then realized I do recognize that word, and I have seen it many times. No idea what it means.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

Do you have a guess?

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Well, you said something about bodies.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

So what would a lithe body be like?

SPEAKER_01 28:41

I don't know. I don't I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

A body or movement that is thin, supple, or graceful.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Refers to flexibility and ease of motion, often used to describe dancers. Usually it's a word that I have no idea. I feel like it's a word that your context clues in a sentence, you're not gonna be like hung up on what does it mean. I'm sure that's why you've seen it because I'm I'm writers use it fairly regularly.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

I like that. I like what it means.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

Yeah, live.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

It's not a way I've been described, but I like it. Anything associated with dancers, smooth, yeah. Nope.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

She's bumpy. We'd have more athlete type descriptions.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:18

Yeah. Powerful, forceful, forceful?

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Oh, spooky. Uh strong. But I feel like dancers are also really all of those things. I feel like dancers and gymnasts got it all.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

Underrated strength.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Underrated strength.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

I did see someone like breaking down the mechanics of dance and like the forces that go into it. Especially because you're like it's cold. When you land on your toe, like that is an insane amount of force to put on this little bitty thing. There's a reason people get injured a lot. Anyway, live. That's your word of the week.

Leaving Kids Behind And Secure Attachment

SPEAKER_01 29:51

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Well, you know what's next.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

Bad dad, mean mom.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Bad dad mean mom. It's gonna be Mother's Day weekend coming up, so there's no mean mom.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

Okay, yeah. Mom's perfect this week. Yeah, it wasn't gonna be a mean mom uh comment. Honestly, it's not even a bad dad comment.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Perfect parents?

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Perfect parent comment, yes. This is we left our kids for three days. That sounded wild.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Um actually, perfect parents, so we left our kids.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

We abandoned our children to go party in Vegas. So, anyway, our kids didn't miss us that much. No, which is a sign of secure attachment.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

They were really excited to get home and they both both both, plus one, plus one, were communicating to us that they were very excited to be back in their house and to see us and everything, but no, they they did really they really they knew we were coming back when we FaceTime them, they'd be like, hi, bye.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

We got we got fun things to do. And so, again, a sign of secure attachment. You're like, I don't know that they're that worried that we're gone.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Yeah, I felt that way. I was like, oh, maybe they don't like us at all.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

A good sign just didn't feel the best.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

I feel that.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Kind of like how they were asking us when they were gonna leave for weeks before. They're like, hey, yeah, is that this week? And you're like, no, it's almost a month away. Please stop asking me. It feels like you want us to leave.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Really, really, really excited. But I think part of that is the buildup. We make a bunch of fun plans for them. And the goal is the reason we do all of that is so they we don't want them to have a bad time when we're gone. Like, we want them to have a really fun time and look forward to it because when they're not with us, we want them to feel safe and loved and excited and experiencing new things. And yeah, it's just that you want to be there for everything, or I do. Like anytime I see them be happy or excited about something, I'm wishing that I was there for it.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

Isn't that kind of the tough part of like having a secure attachment though? From the parent side, when you have that secure attachment, they're like, No, I don't need you, I want you, but I don't need you. And a lot of pieces of parent, you're like, You sure you don't need me? Aren't you a little sad without me? They're like just the tiniest amount.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

But ideally, they're not. And that's the hard part. It's like, no, I I want you to be able to go out into the world.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

I do think we have at least a couple emails. We may need to put out the signal to blow us up again, you know? Send us your voicemails.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Send us your voicemails, your emails, your texts. Great, review the podcast, follow.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

There you go. First email.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

I love emails.

SPEAKER_03 32:21

It's always good to feel like our opinions are valued.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:25

That sounded so conceited. Let's not leave that on.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Um I want to, but yeah, anyway, let's get into it.

Listener Mail Starts And Community Plug

SPEAKER_03 32:34

Family photos are extremely important to me, and I make it a point to get professional photos done at least yearly of myself, my husband, and our kids. I'd really like to get yearly photos done of my kids with their grandparents, but family sessions in my area are$500 at minimum. So it's just not feasible to organize three sets of photos every year to get pictures with each set of grandparents. I'm wondering if Joe has any recommendations on beginner-friendly cameras, editing apps, technology, so I can take these photos myself and really capture our parents with their grandkids each year. Love the pod.

Taking Better Family Photos Without Spending

SPEAKER_02 33:00

So the thing about photos is people get really caught up on what camera they're using. And it's not necessarily about the camera at all. Some of my most treasured pictures are taken on my iPhone. And phones honestly have such good quality as long as one, you clean your lens and two, you learn about light. It is learning how to photograph things in the right lighting scenario rather than upgrading your equipment. Cameras are great, don't get me wrong. Like if you want to get into photography and you want to learn about shooting a manual, etc., like that is wonderful. But I think simply leaning in and learning that you want to be in a shaded spot with a shaded background for really even light, being mindful of standing toward a window. I see people all of the time when they're inside taking a picture with someone, and the window will be behind them in some regard, and then they're backlit and the whole thing's soft. Face the window.

SPEAKER_03 34:04

It's really easy to do that because I think there's this temptation of there's this view behind me, or you want to give this sense of space of this is where we are, or there's something interesting. Just get your face towards the brightest source of light. And that's a great place to start.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yes. I think experimenting with that is where I would start. Um, and not as busy backgrounds so that you can really focus on the subject really helps. And learning about the rule of thirds and how to frame pictures. Not that that's the only way, like rules are meant to be broken, but if you are just trying to learn a good few rules to follow, that will really help you have higher quality photos. A lot of my photos are taken on my phone now. I will still get the camera out some, and I love my G7X.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

G7X is just a point and shoot. Use that with the flash a lot. And I'm sure there's probably people with better. There's probably people with better like tutorials on how to set it up. It's really good for you're inside somewhere, say a casino. You do get like this flash light source in front of you. A, it gives it kind of more of an older school vibe. And B, you do get better lit from the front. I did laugh. We took a group picture right in front of the place we ate dinner, and three of us had the same point and chew camera. Two of two of whose we had dead batteries. So I'm not gonna say we were perfect at that.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Yeah, so we handed this. I asked a gal that was just standing outside the restaurant to take a picture of all of us, and I handed her my G7X. It died, and so our friend Danielle handed us her G7X. It didn't have a battery in it. So then Chloe handed us her. I was like, Third G7X. I was like, this is crazy. This is yeah, this is influencers in the wild on well, and what I'll say, because my G7X looks so beat up, people were like, why does it look like that? And I'm like, Well, it's 10 years old.

SPEAKER_03 35:50

It's been around the block.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

It's it's been coming with me everywhere, and they're like, How did you know about this? I'm like, photographer.

SPEAKER_03 35:56

You're like, I was I was doing camera stuff 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

The G7X has been cool for really long, like functionally really cool for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

It was an early vlogging camera.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

That's the first thing you got it for, is like, oh, we're gonna do more vlogs. And so we got that to use uh well, they I guess you had it before that, didn't you? You had it before that, but then you had it, and it was a good, it was you're like, okay, cool, we can do both. And uh we didn't keep up the vlogging, but we have been using the vlogs.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

No, we're terrible vloggers, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Respect to the vloggers out there, but so much respect to the vloggers. It is, it it takes some work. I did you hear the guy talking behind the person taking the picture though? It was like, Do you just want us to use a phone? Why do we have three real cameras? Like, we all have a phone, let's just use a phone. You're like, you're not getting it.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

You don't get it.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

I was curious if you heard that guy talk to me.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

I heard him say, Do you want us to take it on a phone? I was like, I'm just gonna ignore that. Yeah, he was because he was far enough, it's not like he was talking directly to us.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

No, he was talking shit.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Yeah, which was fine.

SPEAKER_03 36:51

He was definitely talking shit. He's like, uh, why are we using these cameras? Just use a phone.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

The woman was so nice. I was like sorry.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

I hey, she was a little bit older. She probably appreciated us using it.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Yeah, well, Chloe was like, Do you see anybody that we could ask? So I just walked up to the first woman I saw. Find a woman.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

Any woman.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Yeah. And then the man with her was making fun of us.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

The man.

unknown 37:12

Ah.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

It's it's a lot about being lit.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

People hate that advice. They do. They want me to say, I would start with this camera and this lens. And I here I will tell you, if you're gonna get into cameras and this and that, I would start with an entry-level mirrorless and then I would get a 50 millimeter 1.8 lens. That is a, or at least I see that's the thing. I don't know what things cost now. But when I was shooting a 1.8, 50 millimeter 1.8 was like 150 bucks, which is very entry-level pricing. I'll look it up for the Canon, it's$220 for the 50 millimeter 1.8. Um, so if you're if you're really wanting to get into it, a 1.8 will give you that like blurred background and a little bit more professional looking imagery on a more entry-level budget. However, I really think investing your time in learning about light and composition takes you a lot further than investing money into equipment.

SPEAKER_03 38:11

I I also think steer more towards getting the grandparents involved in more of an activity with the kids and going candid. At least then, even if you don't get the perfect pictures out of it, it captures like a time and a place, more of a a feel.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Yeah. Also, if your parents and stuff are local to you, see if they can hop in when you're doing your family photos, see if they can come and just get one with your kids. It depends on the photographers and stuff. But totally, a lot of times that's a nothing.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

Usually you're paying for like the time and the space. Right. If you have the other people at your time and space, you can probably start.

PPD Meds And Motherhood Worth

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Instead of trying to orchestrate three photo shoots, just have both sets of grandparents. Yeah. Which, like for us, that wouldn't work, but I do know people that it would, so I'll put it out there. Another email.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

We had a couple different emails in this vein, but I'm gonna read this one. Been a big fan of the pod for years, loving the rebrand. Joe had mentioned feeling more like herself again after starting an antidepressant, and I think it's so great that you saw the need and sought out support, especially when PPD still isn't widely discussed. A mom of two recently started antidepressants for PPD and have been feeling a lot more like myself, but also have been feeling a little down about it, wondering if being a mom was truly my calling, or that it must not be, since I need medication to handle the weight of this role. My question for Joe is how do you separate your worth and calling of being a mom from your stigma of seeking support? Do you have any ways that you remind yourself that your kids are lucky to have you as a mom despite that?

SPEAKER_02 39:29

I would never tell my mom because she has multiple sclerosis that it wasn't her calling to be a mom, and I don't understand why your mental health and things would be any different. Like that's the I think that there's such a cultural issue around mental health and treating it like it is a personal failing. And I have never really thought of it like that. It's chemical, and a lot of mental health problems are symptoms of bigger issue, and postpartum is not the clearest version of you. It's just not. I I was just talking about this with the girls over the weekend that since having kids, I have struggled so much with my identity, with who I am, with a lot of things. And honestly, those of you that listen to the podcast have probably listened to me go through that in real time, even when I didn't know that I was going through it. Like I think for me later in life, it would be really hard for me to go back and listen to the podcast, especially over sharing, because it is such a season that right now where I am, I want to gloss over and kind of pretend like that version of me never existed. There are things that she did that I am very proud of. And there are a lot of versions that I was in those times that I feel maybe embarrassed by. Not that I should, but I don't like to be seen struggling or like not having it together. And that's been a lot of the last couple years for me. But I don't think that that has anything to do with me as a mom or my value as a mom or whether I want to be a mom or how good of a mom I can be to my kids. I just don't think it's that related.

SPEAKER_03 41:13

I also think there's this really interesting idea that being a mom is supposed to be every woman's calling. And that's I just don't think that's accurate.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

And the only way to be a mom is if it is your like that's the right way to do it.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

Yeah, and there's only that there is also this like one specific vision of what a mom is. And I that it's just wild to me. I feel really bad that there is so little expectation of what a dad is. The idea that it is just supposed to be easy and the most enjoyable thing you've ever done. Like, there's a lot of good parts to it. There's also just years that are hard. You might be really geared towards having older kids and having that experience. I struggle with like the little, little years. It's hard for me. Um, I think as they grow and we get older and have more experiences that way. I think that's gonna be much more in my bag. But that's not just an experience for me, that's an experience for everybody. I've talked to other moms, other moms. I'm not a mom. I've talked to other parents who were moms that also don't love them.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

I've talked to moms.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

Yeah, I've talked to moms that the young years aren't their years. You very much so love the little the little tiny years.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

I think there are some people who have really high peaks and really low valleys in terms of what plays to their strengths. And then there are other people you meet that are a little more steady along the middle the whole time. And I find you to be somebody who really has those peaks and valleys.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

And I'm somebody who's a little more steady when it comes to parenting. Like there are always parts that I'm having a hard time, and there are always parts that I'm really loving and enjoying. I don't see myself being like, oh man, like three, I just hated three or whatever. I don't. Whereas I think for you, hate strong. I don't think you would ever probably phrase it that way. No, no. But like, for instance, you will be the first to say, like, I don't love the newborn phase. It's really hard for me until they get to be about a year old and start to have more of a personality and things. It is harder for me to engage with and there are less upsides for me. Do I love my kid? Absolutely. Would I do anything for them? Absolutely. You know?

SPEAKER_03 43:18

Uh I also try to be a little more outspoken about that so that if other people feel that way, that they don't feel totally a crazy person for that. Cause it's not the most comfortable thing to say to be like, I don't love when they're less than one, like that whole year. I struggle to connect with that kid.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

I really think you hit the nail on the head though when you said that the cultural expectations of women as mothers is unrealistic. It is idealized and it is truly made in order to exploit women and their emotional labor and their physical labor and their mental labor. It just is. Like that is how the system is set up. And when you give into that feeling of, like, well, maybe this wasn't for me and self-doubt and being really critical of yourself. I think that then you are giving in to that cultural concept, which is easy to do. That makes it sound like I'm trying to put blame somewhere or like say that, oh, it's your fault. That's not what I'm saying at all. I just think that maybe that's a good way to think about when you're having those feelings instead of focusing on, well, maybe and continuing to be critical about yourself, thinking about, oh, okay, I'm having these feelings. Think about it if it's a dad.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

I was gonna say, reframe it. If I was a dad and had this experience, what would people think about it? They'd be like, you're around, great work, you're still there. You did it.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

It's it really is jarring how little people recognize it because it's so blatant.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

Yeah. Not that that's the bar you should be shooting for, but if you're looking for some framework to try and give yourself a little grace, just apply the dad rubric.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

And we don't talk about dad's mental health at all. And I think that men and their mental health is a very valid conversation. And I think it's a conversation that needs to be had. But if you saw a dad who was experiencing depression or a severe depression after having kids, you would never connect it to him as a father. Why are we allowing that to define ourselves as mothers? I understand that postpartum depression, like it is related in that regard, but it doesn't have anything to do with your identity as a mom.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

Your body has spent a year gearing up to build a child, all those hormones and all that's still around.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

The last couple months is the first time I've felt really, really good all around in all facets in a long time.

SPEAKER_03 45:47

Well, one of the questions uh someone else had in the same vein was when did you start feeling more like yourself after your first kid?

SPEAKER_02 45:53

Complicated question. Sure. And I think about this a lot because I hit about four months and I was like, we're back, baby. And then I hit around eight months, and I was like, why did that four month postpartum girl think she was back? She did not. And then eight months I was like, but don't worry, we're back, baby. And then I hit like a year, and I was like, what was eight-month postpartum me? Think I think it happens.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

You sound like me talking to me just in general.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

I think that it gets a little bit better and a little bit better. It's not an all-at-on thing, and pieces of you feel more right at different seasons. I think at the two-year mark is really where I've heard from people things really get the most normal.

SPEAKER_03 46:35

Maybe not normal is not the right word, but you've kind of like acclimated to whatever your situation. Because again, you've added a kid to your life.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

I've never been two years postpartum. I have been pregnant before two post two years. I I had a baby before two years postpartum with you did that, yeah. Our second. Like our first two are two under two, and then I had another one. You know, we don't know if we'll do a fourth, we don't know what our game plan is, but this time I do plan to make it to two years postpartum. So I'll keep you posted.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

Feel more like yourself the more you go along. PPA, PPD, their normal experiences. And a lot of times you need outside intervention, and it's okay. Yeah, it's literally out of your control.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

A hundred percent. And it's such a blip. That's the thing about it, is we put so much pressure on being a certain way in these years, and it is such a small portion. Like, think about how short middle school feels. That feels like it was a blip and it was forever ago. Those are the little years. It's almost no time at all.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

We've been married seven years. College feels like yesterday. That time feels like yesterday. Like, all of that goes by really quickly. Find some point in your life that feels like it wasn't long ago and it was five, ten years ago. Our oldest isn't even five. It's really fast.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

When you're struggling, like remember it's fleeting, it's going to change. And when it's good, remember it's fleeting, it's gonna change.

When You Feel Like Yourself Again

SPEAKER_03 47:57

All right, one more. Here we have somebody that actually knows what they're talking about, weighing in. So that'll be a nice change for everybody. Listening to the episode, and there was a listener who had questions about having babies and their fiance being concerned about the bad habits passing down. I work in the mental health field, specifically with kids who have a variety of mental health diagnoses and or learning disabilities. What I can say is the fact that they are talking about these concerns and fears already means you're on top of it. Half the battle I see with parents and caregivers is when to reach out for support. So knowing that this could be a future barrier and having conversations about what you will do if characteristics start to pop up means that you already care about these future humans. Even though we still live in a time where mental health is a bit taboo, doesn't mean that there aren't services available. And trust me, if you reach out to find help for your kids, people who help catch them truly want to be in support groups and so proud of you for finding the supports that your kids need.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

Love it when we get messages like that. Yeah. You all really have cultivated a really cool community in helping one another, and I think that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

I would say I second that, but that's really unnecessary when somebody actually knows what the hell they're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

Yeah, we don't.

SPEAKER_03 49:00

But we do our best, which is not uh educated.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Rate and review.

SPEAKER_03 49:04

Yeah, send us send us all the messages.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

Hit a subscribe. We love you guys. See you soon. Bye.