Emotional Abuse and Coercive Control: Christina Ditchkofsky on Losing and Rebuilding Self-Trust

What happens when control is disguised as care, concern, or good manners?

 In this episode, Christina Ditchkofsky joins Julie Fairhurst for a powerful conversation about emotional abuse, coercive control, love bombing, childhood trauma, shame, and the slow erosion of self-trust.

Christina is a nurse, author, and trauma-informed writing guide. She shares both lived experience and professional insight as we explore the warning signs of coercive control, including isolation, loss of financial freedom, pulling away from work, neglecting yourself, and constantly second-guessing your instincts.

We also talk about Christina’s book Burnt Letters and how writing can help survivors process trauma, reclaim their voice, and begin healing — even if they never publish a single word.

This episode is for survivors, for women questioning what they lived through, and for anyone who loves someone trying to find their way back to themselves.

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Grab Christina's book:    https://amzn.to/41hrvu9

Christina's Website:  https://christinaditchkofsky.com/

Free Gift:  https://tinyurl.com/y82m77tn 

If this conversation stirred something in you… good. That’s where change begins.

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I’m Julie Fairhurst, and this is where stories turn into power.

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Women Like Me Stories and Business. I have a fellow author on with us today, so I'm excited to introduce you to her, and we are going to have a great conversation. She's going to tell us about her book. And so let me let me give you a little intro on our guest. So today I'm joined by Christina Dichkovsky, a nurse, an author, a trauma-informed writing guide who helps women put language to experiences they've never been able to explain. We're going to talk about childhood trauma, emotional abuse, control, and how these experiences shape identity, decision making, and self-trust. And most importantly, how writing can become the bridge back to your voice. So welcome, Christina. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Thank you. Do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_02 1:17

So, well, you introduced me. I am I'm a nurse, I'm a master's prepared nurse. My graduate degree is in nursing leadership. And I am in the very last leg of my psychiatric nurse practitioner degree. I'm finishing that in November. Ooh, congratulations. Wow. And I am starting up different workshops just, you know, to go along with my line of work and trauma and just helping women. Because I mean, as we write these books, a lot of feelings come up that it's hard for us to process because you know, everybody says, get your story out there, get your story out there. But when you get it out there, you're also reliving it. So I help with that.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yes, perfect. And that's so so important. We're we're definitely going to chat about that. Okay. So let me ask you can you take us back to what first made you realize that what you were experiencing wasn't normal, even if you didn't have words for it?

The Moment Control Shows Up

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Probably when I'll just give you a great little story. Sure. I went out to eat with this guy that I was with and my best friend. And we were sitting at the table eating, and she asked me a question, and I was like, Oh, let me look that up. So I picked up my cell phone and I went on Google to look it up. And he took my cell phone out of my hand and said, We do not use our phones at the table. And I was like, Oh, okay, you know, that's one of his boundaries. All right. Well, my girlfriend kicked me under the table and said, I have to go to the bathroom and you're going with me. And I was like, Oh, okay, excuse me. And we went into the bathroom, and she literally slammed me up against the wall and went, What are you doing? Get away from him. I was like making excuses for his behavior. And didn't even realize it. Of course, I didn't leave, but you know, something in my head was like, Why, why am I making excuses for him? You know, like I didn't I only knew this man for a month, and I allowed him to take my phone out of my hands and treated me like a child.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Wow. So was that so when that when she threw you up against the wall and said, Hey, sister, like what's going on here? Was that like, like, did that shift anything? Did it make you kind of wake up a little bit, or did it not really, not really help too much at that particular time?

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Unfortunately, when you are in these types of relationships, you're so far in that I mean everybody else sees it, but you're just like, what is wrong with them? They just don't want me to be happy, you know, because you cannot, I literally could not see it. I was, like I said, making excuses for his behavior.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Yeah. Wow. Wow. Well, so many will feel something's off, but they can't explain it. So why do you think it's so hard to name, name uh the abuse or the emotional abuse or the or

Why Abuse Is Hard To Name

SPEAKER_00 4:33

the control?

SPEAKER_02 4:35

You know, they they they are doting on you in the beginning. They ask you all these questions, they're constantly wanting to know you. And it's like, oh my gosh, this guy like is so interested in me. He genuinely cares about me. He wants to know everything there is about me, and they just continuously get to know everything, all of your weaknesses, all your faults, all the things you love, all the things you don't love, and they build this all up to the point where you are so drawn in. You feel like you can be have come from a perfectly healthy family, you could have had an amazing upbringing, had no issues at all growing up, and still get pulled in by these types of people because it's just so addicting, and then out of nowhere, something small will happen, and you'll have already been so pulled in at that point that you now make excuses for it, and you don't see it, and it they usually start out very small, and it's like a total turn, and you're like, whoa, like you you just go into shock, and then you know, they'll blame it on you if you didn't do this, right? And then you start to question yourself because up until that point, it has been like literally the most amazing relationship you've ever been in in your life. So, how did we have this switch? Maybe it is us, because we we most likely have been in bad relationships before and they've ended. So we can easily believe that we told them all of our secrets.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yes, yes, you it's almost like when you just said that, I thought to my in my head, I thought, well, it's like you've given them the ammunition they need.

unknown 6:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Stuff to hold against you.

unknown 6:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

So I wanna I want to ask you something because you said you can grow up in a perfectly good family, like everything's great, and that still fall into this, but but your girlfriend didn't seem to be falling into, like she saw it. So what do you think? Like, if I I'm just curious, like we must have something lacking to fall for it, no? Like, is there like a need of some sort?

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Well, oh yeah, I think there's gotta be a need of some kind because I mean, like all of us, like that's one of the things I concentrate on. All of us have trauma, right?

How Childhood Needs Shape Adults

SPEAKER_02 7:20

So growing up, you could have had the most amazing experience, but that little five, six, seven, eight-year-old who just had a really bad day at school or something, and you came home and your mom was busy. Maybe your mom and dad were in a little bit of an argument, or somebody died, or something happened, and your mom is preoccupied in her moment, and you just come to her all excited. Maybe you know, you pass the test, or you drew this amazing picture, whatever it is that happened, and you want to talk to her, and she just goes, Not right now, honey. That at that moment that child didn't get what they needed, and that carries on throughout our life, right? Yeah, so you know, these are like I don't know, they talk about like your shadow work, or you know, like these are the little shadows within us that yes, yeah, they're not bad things, they're just things that we carry on into our adult relationships, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

And and and in a situation like that, it's nobody's fault, it's just every the family is traumatized from the situation. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Well, how does childhood trauma or toxic relationship dynamics shape the way we see ourselves as adults?

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Yeah, they they totally shape us. I know growing up, a lot of people, you know, they're they're ignored or you know, they just they don't get what they're they really need. So you may now be a people pleaser, you may put your needs aside all the time, and you may want to say no to something because you're overwhelmed, but at the same time, you don't want to hurt their feelings because you're trying to give them, you're always trying to give what you wanted, what you are lacking, or you know, you just totally could not in any way, shape, or form understand how this person who says they're your friend doesn't give you the same amount of time and effort that you give to them. So you're like, well, you know, am I the only person? Yeah, and you you you play victim then. Yeah, you could play victim.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Yes, yeah. Well, you talk about self-trusting being impacted. So, what does that actually look like in real life?

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Self-trust being impacted. You just don't trust your own voice. Growing up as women, it has happened throughout our entire lives, through generation after generation, you know, and it's still there, it is shifting, but it is still there that we we are not to say certain things or be in certain positions, so we don't trust ourselves, like women in business. A lot of times, a lot of women don't trust themselves because we are just women, right? And that is something that you hear a lot, or they have a story to tell, but they're like, Well, you know, nobody's gonna care about what I'm going to say. You know, they they we as women have a terrible, terrible time trusting in our authentic voice, trusting in our experiences. And I don't know where I was, I heard someone say, uh, a conversation never starts until you actually put your words into it. Ah, I love that. Oh, wow. Yeah, because I mean, like, so you know, like what you do, you know, all these women write these books about their experiences. Yes. And they're like, well, why should I write about mine? You know, so what? I was in an abusive relationship or I grew up being beaten, you know, who cares? All these other people write these books, yes, but that's their experience. That is not yours, and also that is their voice, not your voice, and that is their way of articulating the story, and we all talk totally different. We all have our own tastes on how we like to experience something. My book starts out with a very hard flare in the beginning, and it's it's it's how I am. I'm a very dramatic person, you know. So that's how I write as well, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah, and your book is called Burnt Letters. Yes, okay. Do you want to show us a copy of it? Do you have a yes?

SPEAKER_02 12:13

So if you ever want to write a book, your very first copy that you get has

Inside Burnt Letters And Leaving

SPEAKER_02 12:18

this lovely thing across the front that says not for resale. My book is called Burnt Letters.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Oh, I love the cover. Love the cover.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Yeah, yeah. So tell us a little bit about your story. So the book, the book I started probably over 20 years ago, I've always journaled and I've loved to journal because I did grow up in a household where I was always pushed aside. To me, that's how I felt it. But after my second divorce, I realized that there was something wrong with me. Right? There had to be something wrong with me. So I just started journaling different things and pulling out old journals of things that I had written. And I realized that there was like these patterns going on in my relationships. So I just was like, I'm done, totally done with relationships. I am just gonna heal myself and fix myself. And I sat on my living room floor and I was completely enclosed with candles and incense, and it was a full moon. It was, you know, just one of those perfect magical moments. And I was like, okay, I just want you screaming to the universe. I just want you to break me. I want you to rip me apart. I don't care what you have to do, whatever it is you have to do, fix me. I highly don't recommend doing that. The very next day, I woke up and met the most amazing man you could ever meet in your life. And I had been journaling, you know, all my stuff through my divorces and everything, and met this guy. I had signed up for my psych NP, I was gonna finish school, and the book is about that moment in my time, and it goes back and forth between this unbelievably toxic relationship and me in therapy, and me as a child, and it sounds confusing, but it makes sense of me rediscovering who Chrissy is, this little girl that I was, and how all of my life experiences have led me up to making the decisions that I've made. It's only book one of three, and it ends with me leaving. The book is the 15th month, 15-month relationship with this guy, and it ends with me leaving. Book two, which is almost done, was pick up for me getting in the U-Haul and then all of that experience. So wow, and of course, going back because we always go back. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Well, and that, you know, that let me just that just leads into my next question is why do you think so many women stay in those situations, or why do they go back?

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Because you just want it to work, they promise you, they promise you they're gonna change, they promise you that, you know, or if you get the help, if you go to therapy, I'll go to therapy with you, and you are like they have you so broken down, like literally there was nothing left of me. I mean, like it was it's awful how much they just completely destroy everything about you, and which is why I wrote the book because you feel so isolated, and they do, they totally isolate you, and you are so alone, and you don't believe that you can tell anyone because you're so filled with shame, and people need to know why women more women just need to keep writing this. You're not alone, and there's no need to feel shame.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Shame is such a nasty emotion, and it just it can kill your future. Yeah, wow. Well, how does trauma affect decision making? And why do we second guess ourselves so much?

SPEAKER_02 16:36

So once you have been through that experience, like it'll live there for probably ever. It doesn't go away. I still have certain triggers if someone says something or does something, like moves fast or like gets angry and I'm out somewhere. I live in a big city, so and somebody grabs something and like there's a lot of big banging, you know. It's like I look like and I get that feeling because you just it's gonna be in there forever, but you can heal and work through it. I'm sorry, repeat the question one more time.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Sure, sorry. Yeah, so so how does trauma affect decision making? Because we because we as women we second guess ourselves so much. And I I asked after I asked you, I thought, well, I guess that kind of goes back to the trust factor as well, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Yeah, not trusting ourselves, yeah, and also so afraid to be in a relationship, too. You're also gonna be afraid to be in a relationship. You may be afraid to voice your opinion, right? You know, you may be afraid to speak up about anything, even talk about what happened, asking for that promotion, like anything. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Just shut down. Yeah, wow. So is there a common is it common for women to feel like they've lost themselves?

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Oh, yes, yes, yes, you will, you will lose yourself. They will make sure you lose yourself.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

So, what do you think some of the signs would be that we've lost ourselves? If we're if we're in that environment and we're not, you know, we're we're second guessing because of because we're confused and and mind games being played. I don't know how else to say it. So, so how do how do we see how do we realize we've lost ourselves? When do we actually realize that?

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Where's your friends? Do you go out with them anymore? How about your job? Are you calling out a lot more? Or did you even get fired? Did they ask you to quit? Do you still have control over your money, or do they have control over your money? Do you talk to your family? Do you see your kids? Do you get up? Do you get dressed? Do you wear the same clothes? Do you put on makeup? Have you lost weight? Do you still get your hair done? These are all the things I just completely stopped doing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

And I I think the big one that connected when you said it is, you know, people losing. Because what do we do when we first get into a relationship? We're like sucked in, just you know, and and yeah, we do put our friends aside. I uh yeah, where we're just well, I've got a girlfriend that I see her all the time, and then she's in a new relationship, and then I don't really see her too much until she's off in that relationship.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

I think the difference is when I was told all the time, I don't want you to go out with that friend anymore. You just uh better and your family, yeah. I don't want to see your family, they don't like me. Yes, gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, those would be important. So you talk about vo reclaiming voice. So, what does that really mean?

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Writing your story, writing your story, even if you don't want to publish it, you don't have to publish it. Not everybody

Writing As A Bridge Back

SPEAKER_02 20:18

wants to put all their dirt out there in the world for the entire world to read. Yeah, you know, it's pretty quiet. I mean, a lot of people are quiet, but putting yourself out there, you're vulnerable, you're raw. I mean, like when my book was published, my best friends called me and was like, Oh my god, I didn't even know you went through that, and I was right there with you. Yeah, because I was completely filled with shame. Nobody knew. So writing it, just write it, go to therapy. I totally believe that writing a book, I'm in mental health, writing a book will help you more than any therapist can ever help you. You will relive it, you will read it again, and you will just be like, it's kind of like an outer body experience. You'll read it and be like, who was that? Like, oh my gosh, I allowed this to happen, and you will slowly heal wounds that maybe you didn't even know were there. You will awaken parts of you that will just be so glowing and happy, and and you will take accountability for your part in it because unfortunately we stay or we go back, but you will forgive yourself, you will forgive them, you must forgive them because without that experience, would you be who you are today? Right. Yeah. So just expressing everything and not being afraid to talk anymore and talk about it and talk about it with everyone.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

I I have a girlfriend when we were in our 20s, we were in college. College together. And then she moved away to the other side of the country. So a six-hour flight away. And so we wrote letters back then, handwritten, right? There was, you know, snail mail. And then we re and then we didn't talk for, I don't know, 10, 15 years. We reek or more. We reconnect, and she's got the letters. And she popped, she saved my letters all those years. So she mailed them to me. And I was terrified to open them. And when I open them, I'm like, like, like, wow. I can't even believe I was in that headspace. Yeah. You know, and and the good thing is, is I wasn't anymore. But I but it was a real realization. It was like a wow, like an opening. So I I, you know, uh when you're feeling like that disassociation from that person that you're reading on the paper. Yeah. I mean, that's a little different. I wasn't writing a book about trauma, I was just writing, you know, about my traumatic everyday life.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Yeah, but that's still trauma.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Like it is, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

You don't have to go through a traumatic experience to write a book. Like you have so many things you've gone through, and and no one else has lived your life. No one. That's right. No one. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

That's right. You know, I with the women that I have, so I've got hundreds of writers now. And I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt, every one of them, somewhere through the process, said, Well, if I can help just one, it'll all be worth it.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Yeah, that's it. When you write a book, it's for one person. You uh so that's what I teach people. I'm like, so when you're writing your book, I want you to. That's part of the questions I ask. Who are you writing this book for? Now I want you to picture her. You are sitting with her and you are having a conversation with her the entire time you're writing this book. It may be you, maybe it's the part of you back then who needed to hear these things. But you're only writing it for one person. That's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

And and I think that there's a I don't know if the word is healing, but there's something about that to think that somebody's, you know, gonna hopefully be helped by my story.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Oh, yeah. I mean, like when I go back and I read the reviews on Amazon, it's like, or I have people email me, I'm just like, oh wow, it's so humbling. It's like, yeah, you know, it's like they're like, oh my god, it's like it's literally like you lived my life. How did you know? Yeah, almost all they all have so many similarities that yeah, yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

So for someone who says, I don't even know where to start, what would you tell her? Like of leaving or no, I'm talking, I guess, about writing because we're sort of about writing. About writing. Yeah, where would for some, yeah. If they say I don't even know where to start.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

So the first thing to do would just just start writing, write get out a word document or a journal and just start dumping everything in a in a word doc, you can just dump and dump and dump, and then you can copy and paste and make sense of it later. But right now, just get it all out. Because while it's fresh in your mind, write it. If you're still in there going through the experience, journal it in a safe place wherever you can so that you can remember all of this. But the first thing to do is just get those words out, then connect with, you know, like you or or me or somebody who helped women write their books to get through it, to get through the emotions, to to to figure out what the next steps are, to make sense of it.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Yeah, yeah. Uh, one of my writers a few years back, she she wrote us her a story called My Dump Book. As exactly as you're talking, I'm like, oh my goodness, that's exactly what she said in her story. It was just her dump book, and she would just dump everything in there, and then she said she felt better. Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Yeah, yeah. I would do like just write stuff, like I wouldn't even look at it. I just had a journal that I would just wake up and I would just sit and write for like 15-20 minutes, just not even thinking, just write, scribble, cross out, whatever, and just write, right, right, right, right. And then, like later when I was writing my book and I'd go through it, I'd be like, Oh my god, I just want to hug her. Oh my god, she hurt so bad. I can't believe how bad she hurt. But it's like it's crazy the things we think of and just how everything is, but getting that out is the most important part. You can't hold it in, get it out.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

So what happens when a woman finally puts her words to something she's carried for years?

SPEAKER_02 27:24

It's just it's freeing. It's like, oh my god, I was in a toxic relationship. Wow, he was bad for me. Like she acknowledges it and stops making excuses. And then I'm not a victim. I'm not a victim, I'm a survivor.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

I loved what you said in the beginning of our conversation, where you said, I'm the common denominator. And you know, for me, I remember, I can't remember how many years ago now, about 15, 16 years ago, I was going in that pattern and all, you know, last for so long, and then that be that. And then I sat down one day and I thought, uh I started thinking about it all, and I started writing. And I thought, I'm the common denominator in this situation. So I need to do something for me. Yeah. Or this is gonna keep happening.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Yeah. Because you keep attracting what you believe you deserve. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Yes, what we deserve. Yes, yeah. Wow. So, how does someone begin rebuilding self-trust after survival?

SPEAKER_02 28:50

Small steps, one one little day at a time,

Rebuilding Self Trust After Trauma

SPEAKER_02 28:55

acknowledging it happened, taking accountability, forgiving, writing and processing it, you know, go to therapy because you will have emotions that you know you you don't understand. You will have good days, you will have bad days. They will continuously reach out to you, even if you've left and that bond is broken and you're done. I was just talking to uh someone the other day, and she has been away from him for over 12 years, but she does everything in her power to stay away from him because she says it's not that I care about him, it's just the amount of control he had over me. I'm afraid to see him because I don't want to go down that road again. It's like, wow, she has not seen him in 12 years and she's still afraid to see him. So therapy is where it helps because it keeps you strong, it helps you to process those emotions and just keep writing it. I I I I can't say that enough. I really think writing it helps.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Yeah, yes. No, I I I agree. I think that that we carry so much of it, like you were saying, in our bodies, and and eventually it fills up, it's like a bucket, and then it's gonna overfall and overflow, and then we're gonna have problems. Big problem bigger problems than than we were already in, like our health and you know, just relationships in general, friends, family, kids, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

And you're gonna be always living on edge, you know? Yeah, if you're not processing those emotions, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

So yeah. So what is one truth that you wish every woman understood about what she's been through? She's not alone. She's not alone, but yeah. I think so many people think they are.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Yeah. Yeah. But sadly to say, it's a lot have been there. Many of us have been there.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Yes, yes. Yeah, I think the latest statistic is one in four. So wow. I always tell people, I'm like, picture four of your friends, just picture. Just right now, I want you to picture four of those friends. Yeah. One of those is either in a toxic relationship, was in a toxic relationship, or will be. Yeah, that's scary. And I'm sure that that is so much higher. I mean, than one in four, but you know, unfortunately, we don't talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

That's right. Yeah, that's the that's that shame. That's that shame stuff coming on when we live in get me going.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

When you live in silence, that's and it's not just it's not just our shame, it's how society yes, yes, like, oh, really? Was he really that bad to you? What did you do? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

It's like, yeah, or what'd you stay for? That was dumb. Yeah, yeah. Well, why not the judgments and the shame, and that all comes from silence, just comes from from not like you just said, not talking about it. We have to try to be not try, we need to be more open about these things, yeah, and believe people.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Yeah, so that's one of the things. Like when I do book fairs and I talk about my book, I always say, so my book is not just for women who have been in a toxic relationship, my book is for everyone. If you are a mother, a father, a brother, a sister, a friend, like if you are a living, breathing human being, you need to read my book because I don't care how bad her relationship is. You saying you need to leave is not gonna make her leave. And if you don't understand why she won't leave, read my book. Yes, yes, and that's some of the other comments I've had people leave reviews about, you know, like I've I was had a friend who was in a bad relationship, and I I just didn't understand why they didn't leave. And this book helps me understand the amount of emotional pull and the control that they have on them. Yeah, wow. So wow.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Well, Christina, I hate to say it, but we're almost done. But this has just been so it's been a really good conversation. And I think that um that men or women, this is going to be helpful to them. So I want to let our audience know that that you can get burnt letters. I'm assuming it's on Amazon, right? Yes. Okay. And uh, and if you want Christina, you can send us the link and we can put it in our show notes for folks or anybody that might like to reach out. And uh so check the show notes, people, because there'll be some information there about Christina and and and her book as well. And it sounds like, yeah, if you know somebody that's in an abusive relationship or you know, and and emotionally abusive as well, it's it sounds like a great book to read because it's gonna help to enlighten you. And maybe you can see how you can actually help someone, which I think is just so important. Yeah. So let me ask you my last question. If a woman is listening right now and she is recognizing herself in this conversation, what would you say to her directly?

SPEAKER_02 34:56

Is she still in the relationship? I don't know, maybe. Well, if you're in the relationship, find someplace safe and get out. If you if you are now realizing that you were, which a lot of us will realize this, then get to therapy and reach out to somebody to start writing. You are not alone. So many of us have experienced this, and it's it's starting to come to light more now. And you are you are not a victim, you are a survivor, you are more wonderful, more beautiful, and stronger than you could possibly ever imagine. Look back at what you've been through. You've already gone through it, you went through it. This that's something so many people can't even handle doing. Yes. So you are so strong and so beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Oh, I got shivers listening to you. Thank you for that. What a positive way to end our conversation. Just beautiful. Thank you so much, Christina, for being here. Yeah, that was that was lovely. Thank you. Okay, everyone. Well, that is it for this episode of Women Like Me Stories and Business. And yeah, don't forget to check the show notes for Christina's information. And we will see you again. Take care, everybody. Bye bye.