Women Like Me Stories & Business
🎧 Introducing "Women Like Me Stories & Business" - The Inspiring Business and Story Podcast by Julie Fairhurst! 🎙️
Julie Fairhurst is a speaker, movement leader, and the force behind Women Like Me. She doesn’t just host conversations, she pulls truth out of the places most people hide it.
As the founder of Women Like Me, she has helped hundreds of women tell the stories they thought they’d take to their grave, and turn them into something powerful. This isn’t about writing. It’s about being seen.
Women Like Me Stories & Business
Publishing Scams, ISBN Red Flags & Keeping Your Book Rights | Michele De Filippo
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A great book can open doors, but the wrong publishing deal can quietly take away your control, your revenue, and your rights.
In this episode of Women Like Me Stories & Business, Julie Fairhurst sits down with Michele De Filippo, owner of 1106 Design LLC, to talk about what independent publishing should really look like when the author stays in control.
Michele breaks down the confusing world of hybrid publishers, self-publishing companies, free ISBNs, royalty arrangements, distribution control, and publishing red flags that every author needs to understand before signing anything.
We talk about why a “free ISBN” may mean someone else becomes the publisher of record, why “we pay you royalties” can be a warning sign, and why promises like “guaranteed bestseller” or “bookstores worldwide” are often more smoke and mirrors than real opportunity.
This conversation is especially important for first-time authors, women writing their stories, and anyone who has felt overwhelmed, pressured, or confused by the publishing process.
Website: https://1106design.com
Email: md@1106design.com
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I’m Julie Fairhurst, and this is where stories turn into power.
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Welcome And What’s At Stake
SPEAKER_02Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Women Like Me Stories and Business. Now, for you authors out there, you're gonna want to tune into this one, or even if you're not an author but you would love to write a book, I want you to tune in because we have got Michelle here, and she's an expert in getting publishing and all of those kinds of things. So we're gonna have a great conversation. So today I'm joined by Michelle DeFlippio. Did I get it right? DeFlippo. De Flippo, okay. Owner of 1106 Design LLC. It's a company that has been helping authors publish professionally since 2001. So you've been around for a while. Michelle's work centers on independent book publishing as it was originally intended. The author is the publisher, and the author keeps control, and the author earns 100% of the net revenue from book sales. So I'm curious how that works. We were, oh, today we're going to talk about control, revenue, red flags, publishing scams. There's a lot of those. I get emails every day, professional book production, and how authors can make wise decisions before they hand their dream to the wrong people. So, Michelle, thank you so much for being here. This is a great subject to have for our community.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Julie. It's a pleasure to talk to you. And it's especially nice to know that there is put up a group of women authors in your immediate circle. That's not always the case when I do podcasts.
SPEAKER_02No, not no, I understand. Not always. Well, let's start with the core message. What does independent publishing as it was originally intended mean to you?
SPEAKER_00Okay, just like you said, originally independent publishing. I well, let me back up a little bit. In
What Independent Publishing Really Means
SPEAKER_00in traditional publishing, the publisher would buy the rights to the manuscript, the publisher would pay the experts to produce the book, and then the publisher would pay the author a small percentage of the revenue from sales called a royalty. That that model still exists, but that used to be the only model. In other words, authors did not have the opportunity to self-publish. They had to go to a publisher in order to get distribution of their book to the public. Amazon changed all that. Late 90s, early 2000s, all of a sudden it was possible for anyone to sell their book to the public through the Amazon platform. And that was nothing short of an earthquake in the self in the industry. It created the self-publishing industry. So originally self-publishing meant that the author was the publisher of their book. They controlled everything, they hired the experts, and then they received all of the net revenue from sales when a book was sold. And that was just wonderful news. Everybody immediately understood how important that was. But in the last 20, 25 years, the message has gotten a little bit mixed up. We now have entities in the middle space between those two options, and they call themselves hybrid publishers or self-publishing companies. Now they drop the adjectives altogether, they just call themselves publishers. But what they do is they charge the author to produce the book, and they also keep most of the net revenue from sales on the back end, and they pay the author a small percentage called a royalty. So that's that's why I'm on these podcasts to just let people know that you need to ask some pretty important questions before you decide who to hire.
SPEAKER_02Wow, absolutely. So you say that the true independent publishing, the author is a publisher. So why is that distinction so important?
SPEAKER_00It's important because the as the publisher, you, the author, can and should keep control of everything in the process, right? Now, sometimes authors feel overwhelmed with the idea of, well, I don't know how to hire experts and I don't know anything about the process. So I'd better, you know, engage with a publishing company to do that. But that's actually not necessary. There are tons of experts around, including companies like mine, that bundle all the services into a convenient managed platform for you without taking your revenue from sales.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Where do authors often get confused between hiring publishing services and signing with a company that controls your book? So why are we confused about that?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think just mentally people figure I've written a book, my manuscript is done, now I need to find a publisher. That's deeply embedded in our consciousness, right? Because it's always been that way. So I think a lot of authors don't understand that there are entities such as author services companies that can make the process just as easy as if you were working with a publisher, except the difference is the revenue model, like I said. You don't have to give up your back-end revenue in order to get the convenience of publishing if you use an author services company. Right.
SPEAKER_02Well, what are some of the biggest red flags authors should watch out for before they sign a publishing contract?
SPEAKER_00Yes. Well, when if you start searching the internet, you these these companies are going to come up first because they've got big budgets, they dominate the search
Four Red Flags Of Publishing Scams
SPEAKER_00engines, and it's really difficult to discern the difference between a publisher and an author services company. There are four red flags that you can look out for. The first red flag is any company that offers you a free ISBN is technically a publisher because what they're doing is they're offering you one of their ISBNs. Ah, yes, of course. Now, an ISBN identifies the publisher and the title. So if someone gives you a free ISBN, in the US, we have to pay for ISBNs.
SPEAKER_02Right. In Canada, they're free.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, in other countries, they're free. But so, you know, anyone who offers you a free ISBN is more than likely offering you one of theirs, which means which means they are the publisher of your book. That's clue number one. Clue number two is the statement to pay you royalties. Okay. That means that they're going to control the distribution of your book. They're going to get paid first, they're going to see the sales reports, and then they're going to pay you only a portion of the revenue from sales. If you self-publish the way it was originally intended, you would get those sales reports. You would get the all of the revenue from sales. You wouldn't have to share it with anyone else. So that's a really important distinction. The third red flag is we have companies now that promise to make your book a bestseller. In the traditional publishing world, a bestseller is rare. Even with all of the financial firepower and expertise of traditional publishers, nobody knows when a book is going to be a best bestseller. So anyone that promises you that is probably just manipulating Amazon's algorithm to get you that bestseller badge for a few moments on your author page. Yes. And then you can take you can, if you want, take a screenshot and pretend to be a best-selling author, but it's not the truth. And I think it's unfortunate that I think a lot of people do that. And I think it has liquidated the meaning of bestseller now. Right. It's kind of to me, it just seems a little sleazy. When when I see someone I've never heard of claiming to be a best-selling author. So I would I would avoid that like the plague if I were you. And the and the last the last of the four red flags is promises to get have your book in bookstores worldwide. Okay. That sounds wonderful, right? When people hear that promise, when they say we will your book will be available in bookstores nationwide. Well, that's true. It means your book will be listed in the Ingram database under their account. And yes, a bookstore could order it if someone were to walk in and ask for it. But that's not what authors hear. Authors hear, oh, my book is going to be on the shelf in bookstores worldwide. And so that's that's they're dancing around the language a little bit intentionally.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, for sure. Hmm, those are interesting for sure. What is the difference between paying for an expert to help you and giving away a percentage of your book revenue?
SPEAKER_00Well, these these middlemen companies charge you to produce the book. So you're paying for the experts, you're paying their expenses, which begs the question: if
Pay Once Or Pay Forever
SPEAKER_00I'm paying all your expenses to produce the book, why are you entitled to any revenue from sales when I sell that book? These middleman publishers in most cases don't have any investment whatsoever in your book. So, you know, it's like that's the first question to ask. Okay. And there are a few good hybrid publishers, to be fair, who who participate financially in the creation of the book. Right. For example, they may charge the author for the book production services and the editing, let's say, and then they may pay for the marketing, right?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Now, in that case, it's a perfectly fair business partnership, and they are a hundred percent entitled to a share of your revenue because they're a financial partner with you. But many of these companies charge the author for everything from editing to marketing, and yet they're still because authors don't know how to ask or even what to, you know, to even bring up this subject, yes, then you know they're not entitled to your revenue if they've charged you for everything.
SPEAKER_02Yes, that makes complete sense. Why what do I need you for?
SPEAKER_00Well, uh you may decide you need them, but then they shouldn't take your like we we charge the author for services too, but we don't we don't take their revenue on the back end. Right, right, of course.
SPEAKER_02Right, of course, that's what I meant. Yeah. If if they're taking, if I'm paying for everything, plus they want my revenues or a portion of my revenu revenues, that doesn't seem fair.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So so with us, you could you could you could phrase it this way with us and companies like mine, you pay us once for our services, but with these publishers, you would pay them forever. You pay them up front and you also pay them on the back end every time you print a book or every time a book is sold. So that doesn't work out too well for authors.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, for sure. Well, what about control? So, what parts of the publishing process should authors understand and protect?
SPEAKER_00I think authors should control the entire process, right? If you work with a publisher, now we we get calls all
Protecting Control And Your Book Files
SPEAKER_00the time from authors who have decided for whatever reason they want to part ways with their publisher. And then they learn that the publisher is going to hang on to the files that the publisher charged them to create. And so if they want to continue to publish their book under their own name, they have to hire the experts all over again. Wow. So that's so, but you know, legally, a publisher does own the files. Yes. Right? Yes. So again, but they don't explain that up front.
SPEAKER_01No, no. So that's an amazing question to be asking.
SPEAKER_00So with anybody, even us, uh, authors should always say make a part of the contract that they want the applic, what's called the application files, the native files delivered to them at the end of the process. Right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yes, of course. So, what questions should every author ask before hiring a publishing company or a service provider?
SPEAKER_00Well, if they think they're talking to a publishing company, they should ask all of those questions
Questions To Ask And Revenue Math
SPEAKER_00about how, you know, is the is there the free S ISB and how do you calculate my royalty? Is probably the most important question. And later you can put in the show notes. I'll give you two links so that authors can go find out what their revenue is when they when they manage their own publishing directly. That would be fabulous. Thank you for that.
SPEAKER_02We'll have that in the show notes, everybody.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. So so there are two platforms for print-on-demand publishing. The first one is kdp.com, which is owned by Amazon. The other is Ingram Spark.com, which is the largest book distributor in the world. So if you go to both of those websites, you can run their calculators and you can see what your net revenue would be when you work direct. And I guarantee you it's not going to match the royalty figure you've been quoted by a publisher.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, you've helped more than 4,000 authors publish professionally, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes. I not me per not me personally. I have a wonderful team to thank for all that.
SPEAKER_02Yes, of course, of course. But that's amazing, even for your company to help that many authors. So, what mistakes do you see first-time authors make the most? My audience, I do have some authors who have written a few books, but most of my audience is brand new.
SPEAKER_00Well,
Pro Editing And Design Matter
SPEAKER_00I guess, well, if you if you look at the internet narrative, I think the biggest mistake authors can make is to latch on to that do-it-yourself message, where they think they should format their own books in in either Word or some software platform, or they should design their own cover or go someplace where you can get a cover for $50 or $99. That's really not the way to go. You're not going to find true experts at platforms like that. And if you even even though your self-formatted book looks good to you, it's not properly designed and typeset the way a major publisher would do it. So you want to look for somebody who offers typesetting and actual real book design so that your reader has a great experience and is not distracted by poor spacing or not following the many, many rules there are to interior book design. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, I I was at an author fair uh promoting women like me, and there was some other author authors there. And I purchased a couple of their books and and I came home and and I started looking at one of them, and the I was like, I can't believe that you're like that you're actually got this book out there. Like there was and and and I'm my very first book had 165 errors in it. So I'm not, I'm certainly not, you know, what's the word like belittling this author by any means, but I did, but I learned my lesson and said, get your act together, girl. You can't be putting out stuff like that. And then and this this person's put out a lot of books. They have a series, they put out a lot of books. I just couldn't believe the the you know, the something's over here, and then there's a great big gap here, and then more happens, and then the next page or something. And I just I couldn't read it. I was so distracted by the mess.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, the in the traditional publisher workflow, which is what we follow, it is extremely back, a lot a ton of collaboration where the author sees the proofs of everything. We will exchange something like 300 messages or more with the author by the time the project is done. They will see every version of the editing, they'll see every version of the interior design and then the interior layout, then we'll proofread after the layout is done. So we're all human, so occasionally a boo-boo will get through. Yes, of course. But but that's the process that really needs to be followed. And it's very time-consuming and and it does cost money. So authors should be prepared for that.
SPEAKER_01Yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_02Well, can a self-published or independently published book truly look as professional as a traditionally published book?
SPEAKER_00Not only can it, yes, it absolutely must, right? Yes. Because when you direct people to your book and say, my book is available on Amazon, here it is, Amazon is not just going to show your book, they're gonna show your book and then and the similar bestsellers. So you want to make sure your book cover does not look self-published, you want to make sure everything looks like it was done by a traditional publisher. Because people will look at those traditionally published books, and if your book looks self-published, they're gonna say to themselves, I don't know, that looks a little risky. I think I'll stick with the well-known author. But if your book is designed to look like a traditionally published book, they might say to themselves, hmm, I never heard of that person, but that sounds like an interesting book. I'm gonna give it a shot. And that and that's the result you want.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think the the book is is the packaging, right? Yes, it is packaging.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So what role do editing, cover design, interior layout, and distribution pay uh play in whether a book succeeds?
SPEAKER_00Oh, well, it's it's like the creation of any product, right? Could consumers of any product know quality when they see it, and they also know poor quality when they see it. Yes, right. So creating that product first class from the beginning is really, really important because for another reason, too, because if you do that, then you will know you have done everything possible to make that book a success. Nobody who is honest can guarantee you success. Even major publishers have their failures. We don't, nobody knows how the market is going to react to any book. But if you create the best book possible, the most error-free, well-designed book, then you know that you've done everything you can.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Can I ask you about a few things about Amazon? Sure. So okay. So Amazon uh will provide their own ISBNs. Is there a benefit or is there a negative to using those?
SPEAKER_00Well, it depends. Amazon will give you a free
Amazon ISBNs And Format Choices
SPEAKER_00ISBN, right? Which it technically makes them the publisher of your book. Now, an ISBN is required to offer a book in any retail environment, online or offline. So if you're a hobbyist, if you're only doing your book because for friends and family or your own personal satisfaction, you have to have an ISBN, but you may not be thinking about selling it and you don't really care. So then you could take Amazon's free ISBN, right? I wouldn't recommend that if you are thinking of your book as a business, because if you're if you're gonna market the book, if you're gonna try to sell it and have people be impressed by it, having your own ISBN is essential.
SPEAKER_02For sure. I heard somebody say that like can they take can they take that book and sell it elsewhere then or no, not with that ISBN.
SPEAKER_00Well, no, not if you have an Amazon ISBN, but if you have, but if you have the ISBN identifies the publisher and the and the title and the format format of the book. So for example, if you do hardcover, softcover, ebook, and audiobook, you would use four different ISBNs. It's like a model number, right? But you could you can say you assign an ISBN to your soft cover, you can print that in any number of places, it doesn't matter, right? You're not limited. But if you get an ISBN from a publishing company or from Amazon, then you are stuck in their ecosystem.
SPEAKER_02Got you. And what do you think about what do you think about ebooks these days?
SPEAKER_00They continue to be popular. Uh, you know, people have been predicting the demise of print books for as long as I can remember. Print books are still popular. I think people enjoy reading a real book after looking at screens all day, right? Yes. Ebooks are great for people who might have visual difficulties, older people and so forth. Audiobooks are selling like crazy.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I think I think a smart publisher, indie or otherwise, offers the book in multiple formats so that the the buyer can make the choice over which format they want.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. What do you think of Kindle Unlimited?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I I I don't know. Uh I know the major publishers won't participate there. Right. So I think it's it's kind of become
Kindle Unlimited And Exclusivity Traps
SPEAKER_00I I think some people use it in for a for a couple of months in order to promote their book, right? I wouldn't stay there for too long because you know, it first of all, it gives people the idea that books are free.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00And that's right, that really downgrades everyone who publishes a book, right? Yes, no, for sure. There's nothing that's really truly for free. So you're sort of kind of stepping on your own success there. Yeah. It's useful if you want to do it for three months, maybe during your book to during your first launch. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Well, my very first book I put out in 2016, and it was a real estate book, because my background was in real estate at that time. And and I wrote Agent Etiquette, because I was just and it was more of an irritating book for me because all these other agents were irritating me, and I felt like I needed to teach them some etiquette.
SPEAKER_00So I son, my son is a realtor. I understand what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So, but I did put it in Kindle Unlimited, not really understanding what Kindle Unlimited was. And then I found out that to when I take it out of Kindle Unlimited, I couldn't do anything with that ebook for 90 days.
SPEAKER_00I didn't know about that, but that that makes sense because that's Amazon taking care of itself as it always does.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, any the kin the Kindle Unlimited means you can't sell your book anywhere else. You're giving Amazon that an exclusive. And that's another thing I don't recommend because you should you know put your book out there as far and wide as you can.
SPEAKER_02Yes, oh, for sure. Yeah. So what are vanity presses? You know what? Once somebody started picking on me on social media, and and it was a gentleman, and he called me a vanity press. And I said, I'm not a vanity press. And then I thought, well, I don't even really know
Vanity Press Confusion Explained
SPEAKER_02what vanity press is. And then I had to look it up and I realized I'm not a vanity press. But but what is vanity press and why is there so much confusion?
SPEAKER_00Well, when there was only traditional publishing, anything other than traditional publishing was looked down on in the industry, and they used they attached the term vanity press to it, and it it actually meant pay to publish. Right. So you could say you could you could say that these middleman publishers who share your revenue are vanity presses because they're charging you to produce and publish your book with them, right? I see, yeah, but but but that's different than hiring a service provider.
SPEAKER_02Of course, yeah, of course, yes, I understand. Yes, for sure. Social media is just as anti-social media. And sometimes, sometimes it is, you know, sometimes it's fantastic, and sometimes you've got those people who are just like nasty, and I'm this like, well, I gotta go look up what Vanity Press is because I have no idea what he's talking about. And then I'm like, no, that's not what I do.
SPEAKER_00There's nothing inherently wrong with charging for services in publishing or any other business, right? Absolutely. But you know, like we talked about the the the model of sharing the revenue on both ends is is uh the problem. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, maybe he was just a grumpy, a grumpy fellow because he was losing business in his in his business. I don't know, but uh yeah, but he was great, he was grumpy. So for authors who have had a bad publishing experience, what can they do to regain control and move forward or move forward?
SPEAKER_00Well, hopefully, I mean if they they if they're if they're if they're under contract with a publisher, they have to get the rights back from the publisher. And and that's where the problem comes in from some of these middleman firms because they won't release the files.
Getting Rights Back After A Bad Deal
SPEAKER_00So if you if you didn't know that until now and it's not part of your contract, you're gonna have to negotiate with the publisher to get your your application files back, right? So that you don't have to start over. Now, some some we we've interacted with some companies who do turn that over, they don't make an issue of it, but others hang on tight and they might even charge the author to release those files. Now, these publishers will offer you a PDF. A PDF is not the application files because PDFs are not really editable in it to any degree, right? So, what you what you need is the actual native files that are done in Adobe InDesign or Photoshop or Illustrator or whatever they used to create your book. And you might not be able to open those files when you get them unless you have those applications, but that's okay. At least you will have editable files, yes, and and from there then you can start over. You can purchase your own ISBNs. We help people do that, or you can, you know, just hire your own experts.
SPEAKER_02So, so if I can ask Michelle, so by getting so you get those files back, can I now go and just put out my my own book? Or don't they own don't they own my book? Don't they own the title of it?
SPEAKER_00Or don't they have their you would have to get the rights back from the publisher, right? So you'll actually, there's a rescission of rights agreement that they that you'll have to sign and hopefully not pay for. But at that point, at that point, they will turn the rights over to you and they should remove your book from their Balker account, their ISBN account, and remove it from being available. Okay. Amazon does not ever re take a book down, but if they go into their Balker ISBN account and mark that book as out of print, it will at least have a big X through it so that nobody can buy it. You gotta be you gotta be careful, you gotta keep after them for that. Because some of them will continue to sell your book while you're trying to sell the new edition. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_02Well, you offer an 88-page book on your website to help authors make informed decisions. What inspired you to create that resource?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's kind of funny. I'm a designer by trade, not a not a writer,
Free Guide And Realistic Expectations
SPEAKER_00but way back when in around 20 2012, I had written about 60 blog posts on this on the topics. And my editor said to me, we should pull that together into a book. It was her idea, not mine. And so she did a wonderful job. It was unrecognizable compared to my my blog writing. Yes. And now I just give it away to anyone who goes to my website can download it for free in PDF form. And that's really a summary of all of my advice and what authors need to know to stay out of trouble and avoid getting scammed.
SPEAKER_02That's that's fabulous. I think it sounds like a great resource that people should should because we don't know.
SPEAKER_00Well, and nobody goes, well, see, there's the integrity issue there too, right? Because the a business should not take advantage of someone's lack of knowledge, but that's widespread in the publishing industry. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Well, what do you wish that every author knew before they spent a single dollar on publishing?
SPEAKER_00That they should, well, just go into it with good with accurate expectations, right? Chances are it's not gonna be a bestseller. I tell that to everybody. So if if authors will come to me and say, My book is unique, there's nothing like it in the world, everybody is gonna flock to it. The first thing I say is, Well, probably not. Yeah, so just be realistic. So that well, so that you don't you don't get your expectations so high that when reality sets in, you feel like you made a mistake, right? Yes, so you should just just go into it for the sake of art, for the sake of taking a chance, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, and books can do a lot. I mean, of course, we all want our books to sell, but reality is there's a million zillion books out there, and you know, we just can do the best that we can, but our books can be used for so many other other things. I've got um a couple of ladies who have written their true life stories in my collaborative books, and they've actually gotten on stages with their stories. So to have that is it it's a sign of credibility as well for if somebody is in business.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, in fact, I I tell authors don't count too much on retail sales because that's the most difficult way to sell a book. But but if you're a speaker, if you're a business owner, I like I said, I give my book away, and that has gotten me tons of jobs. So I might have sold 20 of them on Amazon, right? But so if you have other avenues to your book can generate revenue indirectly, that's really what to look for.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. So, what do you think authors are still not being told clearly enough in today's publishing landscape?
SPEAKER_00Well, I would much rather hide in my office than do podcasts, but they're not being told any of this at all.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00And so that's why I'm doing this. I think, well, I it's people who are willing to play on others' emotions, which is always a little sad, you know. And that's that's where the bestseller promises come in, and you know, where the complimentary deal some of these companies will do an evaluation of your manuscript, and of course it's always glowing praise and and you know, so forth. And of course, and so of course, you want you want that. That feels good. You worked hard on your manuscript, right? Yes, so so that lack of truth is what bothers me most about the industry because publishing never used to be that way. Publishing was always an art where everybody collaborated together. I started in publishing in 1972. Wow. At pr at Crown Publishers in New York before any of this happened. Yes, wow, yes, yeah, and so uh publishing used to be a very high-end calling, art and art.
SPEAKER_02I have a a lady who she's
Smart First Steps And Closing
SPEAKER_02a Canadian lady who wrote in one of one of my books a few years back, and and she told me that she paid $10,000 to she signed up for this course, $10,000 to learn to to have coaching to write her book. Then it didn't include a cover. Like it was just it was an and it was just kept like, oh, well, if you want us to help you with the cover, that's this. Oh, and there was no marketing, there's no just like okay, bye. And she was, I just like, wow.
SPEAKER_00You can get well, see, we include coaching along the way as we when we sign up as a client. I I just see that as part of our job is to offer the education and the information authors need as we go as we go along. But there are pure coaches out there, it's you know, I'm sure some of them are really good. Yes, yeah, you know, but there are there are places that that overcharge, let's put it this. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I mean, uh, you know, if you're really, really good and somebody's willing to pay that to you, that's fantastic and that's great. But do the job.
SPEAKER_00Well, it depends now. I don't know what they promised. Did they promise to produce her book as as part of the coaching?
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I think I think they were sly talking, and there was some sly talking going on there, but so she had to get the cover made elsewhere and she's got it out there, and she's and again, she's using it to promote her her, she has a personal coaching business, and so you she uses that for that purpose, but but yeah, she was just very upset about the whole thing, you know. But I mean, we haven't seen both heard both sides of the story, so you know, yeah, it's it that's unfortunate.
SPEAKER_00I'm sorry that happened to her.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So for women who have a powerful story, a message, or a business book inside of them, what is their smartest first step?
SPEAKER_00The smartest first step is to work with experts, you know, find editors who are experienced, designers who have covers that look like best-selling covers, right? If you go to some of the low-cost designer websites where you'll see all of their covers look alike. They're basically they're basically the same design with different titles and different pictures.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00So, what I what I tell authors to do is open up two screens on your browser, look at the designer's portfolio on one screen, and look at the major publisher websites on the other, and see if that designer working at that level. Right. That's real that's really critical because the the cover is the first thing that people see, and they're gonna make a judgment about that cover subliminally in a couple of seconds before they decide to click and learn more about your book.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, wow.
SPEAKER_02Well, I want everyone to know that we are gonna have Michelle's information in the show notes. So if you want to grab that, I'm gonna grab that free. Yes, please do what she's got because I could use it. So I'm gonna grab that book, but feel free to to get that. That's uh sounds like an amazing resource that she's offering for free. And uh, and if you are interested in in connecting and just finding out a little bit more about what she can help you with or offer you, the information will be there. So I've really enjoyed our conversation. You've taught me some things. You are you are definitely a wealth of information and a true expert for sure. So I thank you so much for being willing to come and do this with me today.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure to share what I know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, I have one last question for you, Michelle. If you could sit across the room from a first-time author who's excited but overwhelmed, what would you tell them?
SPEAKER_00Again, work with experts. And and you know, if if if managing six or seven freelancers is not your cup of tea, because it is a very difficult thing to do, then seek out an author services company like mine, 1106 design. Yeah, perfect.
SPEAKER_02That's very good advice because we all I even for myself, I I took a writing course, I took a little publishing course before I got started. I'm I I do well, but I don't know everything. But but to have those people that you can rely on who know exactly what they're doing is so helpful. So, so helpful. Yes. So well, Michelle, thank you again. I appreciate you being willing to come here and do this for our audience. And I I hope that, well, not even hope. I know that you have definitely helped them to clear some of the fog away from what's going on out there. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Well, everyone, thanks again for being here on this episode of Women Like Me Stories in Business. And we will see you next time. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye.