Bernice McDonald: Tiny Brave Steps to Overcome Fear, Build Confidence & Reclaim Yourself in Midlife

Fear can sound like wisdom when it is really just an old alarm system trying to keep us small.

In this episode of Women Like Me Stories & Business, Julie Fairhurst sits down with Canadian life strategist, speaker, and author Bernice McDonald for an honest and deeply encouraging conversation about fear, confidence, identity, and what it means for midlife women to become brave enough without pretending to be fearless.

Bernice shares the heart of her Tiny Brave Steps methodology and explains why big goals can feel overwhelming when they look like a canyon away. Instead of forcing women to leap, Bernice teaches them how to build a bridge, one small, doable step at a time.

Together, Julie and Bernice talk about why the brain responds better to small actions, how momentum comes back once you start moving, and how each tiny brave step becomes evidence that you can trust yourself again. Bernice also introduces her memorable way of working with fear, including “Fred,” the little dragon who wants to protect you but does not get to drive.

This conversation also explores why many women feel like they disappear in midlife, how identity shapes behavior, and why choosing who you want to become matters more than waiting for confidence to magically arrive.

If you have been avoiding visibility, delaying a dream, telling yourself it is too late, or waiting until you feel ready, this episode will give you practical mindset tools, clear next steps, and a powerful reminder that your gifts still matter.

Subscribe for more conversations about women’s stories, healing, confidence, reinvention, visibility, writing, business, and brave new beginnings.

REACH OUT TO BERNICE:
www.tinybravesteps.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernicemcdonald/
https://www.facebook.com/bmcdonaldcoaching

If this conversation stirred something in you… good. That’s where change begins.

Make sure you’re subscribed, share this with someone who needs it, and if you’re ready to tell your story, step into your voice, or build a life that actually feels like yours… You’re in the right place.

I’m Julie Fairhurst, and this is where stories turn into power.

Go to my website if you would like to be a guest on the Women Like Me Stories & Business in the toolbar click Let's Podcast

Julie's Website

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Bernice

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Women Like Me Stories and Business. I'm your host, Julie Fairhurst, and today I'm with a fellow Canadian, Bernice McDonald. So I'm happy to happy we were chatting about the weather in Canada, so it was good. We were bonding there over the weather. So let me tell you a little bit about her. She is a life strategist, an author, and speaker who helps midlife women move from feeling not enough to becoming brave enough one tiny step at a time. She's also the author of the Little Books of Courage series, which includes Brave Enough to Be Myself, Brave Enough to Let Go, and I love this title, Brave Enough to Stop Disappearing. Her work reminds women that courage is not about being fearless, it is about moving forward while your knees are still shaking, your heart is tender, and your hope is still learning how to stand. So welcome, Bernice. Thank you so much for being here. Wonderful to be here, Julie. Thank you for having me. Oh, you're welcome. Okay, let's just dive right in there. So, what led you to become a life strategist and create tiny brave steps?

From Divorce To Courage Coaching

SPEAKER_02 1:21

I have been a coach for you know 22 years, not working full-time coaching all that time, but in my heart, always a coach. I got my certification about 22 years ago, and then right after I went through a divorce. So, of course, then I had to go and support myself. So I got a job, but I had a job with our health system, Alberta Health Services in Addiction and Mental Health, which really supported my coaching learning, you know, it really fed into that. So over time I had I did relationship coaching because I thought, hey, I just came out of divorce. I'm not really up to coaching, but I can take more courses to train myself how to have a good relationship because obviously I was a little lacking in that area. So I I started to, I coached on the side, I had an office for a while, and then as I went along, I realized, you know, I was learning so much just from the whole arena of coaching, so much from Tony Robbins and from other thought leaders that I was, you know, I was devouring their stuff. And also the whole in-between time between my marriages, total learning, you know, sharp learning curve. And out of that, I realized how afraid I was of so many things and how I had been feeling naughty enough my entire life, pretty much. You know, I was raised in a home that was very loving, but also along with that, what I was raised in a church where the standards were really high. And it wasn't that I didn't believe in what the church was teaching us, but you know, those were the days when the rules were really strict, and I began to feel like I, you know, I could not be good. I just felt like a bad girl. And, you know, I just couldn't get it right. And I think all of that fed into that not enough feeling. And so as I developed my coaching and I finished my career at Alberta Health Services, I wanted to go back into coaching, but the landscape had kind of changed. So I signed up for another training course, and there I realized that really the heart of what I wanted to do was to talk about courage and about how women especially, and especially in midlife, often lose their nerve. They don't believe they're enough to be anything more than just kind of that person that ages and goes off into the sunset, you know, and wishes they maybe would have acted on some things before. So I began to out of that, just um, you know, I start, I tried to get the coach, coaching clientele, but the landscape had changed. It was hard to get clients. And so I thought I'm going to leave a legacy of some kind. So I'm gonna write 10 little books of courage, because at least then I'll have it in written word. I'll be able to put my heart onto paper and be able to talk about each book is a courage block. And so I began to develop those books. I only got to three, and now I'm writing my signature book, which I should have written first, but what did I know? Right. So that's kind of how the whole system has fallen into place. And as I wrote the books, I realized I was developing a framework. And so from there, this is how I got to the place where I have a method I now

The Bridge Metaphor For Change

SPEAKER_02 5:05

call the tiny brave steps methodology.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

So, what exact what does that mean? And why do small steps matter so much when someone might be feeling fear or being feeling like they're maybe they're stuck?

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Yeah, I love this question because I always picture it like you're standing at the edge of a cavern, deep cut cavern. On the other side is that person or that future that you want to have, whether it's a business, whether it's, you know, it's that that vision we all carry about a different life or a better life. That cavern represents the gap between us and where you get to. And and if you try to leap that cavern, it's just like if you're out climbing in the mountains and you come across a cavern, unless you're in the movies, you know, and and do have a stunt double or something. You don't leap across a cavern, you build a bridge. And so building a bridge happens one little step at a time. And we our brains, which I'm all about, our brains actually work better if we take small steps. So, you know, we take you know, a portion of the bridge we want to build, but even there we break it down into small steps because the smaller the step, the less likely you are to go into that flight or fight. And, you know, fear kicks in and begins to tell you, hey, this is too scary. And you and many of us, when we feel that feeling, you know, we hear that voice in our head that says, look what happened last time when you tried it. Or, you know, you are gonna fail, you're gonna fall into that cavern and you're gonna look like an idiot. How many times those thoughts come to us if we try to take too big a step? And so we break it down into small pieces so that every step counts, every step is a step toward where you want to go, and every step then becomes evidence that hey, I was brave enough to take that step, I can take the next step. And so that's why tiny brave steps are golden. And I should mention too, that brave part, yeah, you need to make it something that stretches you a little bit so that you are not, you know, just doing, you know, administration work that comes easy to you. But you need to also realize that within that step, if you can just get yourself a little bit into that discomfort zone, it bec it becomes more meaningful, it becomes a uh a deeper feeling that you are actually moving forward. So hence the name.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Time I know I love it, I love the name. I think the name is is is perfect for what you're especially when you're explaining it like this. Well, how did you come to understand courage?

SPEAKER_02 8:14

I was very scared over everything. You know, I I began I okay, really it happened in that six-year period between my marriages. Because, you know, I was, I don't know if this is odd, but I was in a 24-year marriage that was, you know, full of a lot of things that were not positive. And when I came out of that marriage, I decided I really want to find love at least one time, real love, one time in my life. And so I start that was really my horizon, right? That was on the other side of the cavern, huge cavern. I had a lot to learn. My bridge had many steps in it. So, but part of it was I had to date, right? I had to back in that world of dating, that was scary. But I had this, you know, what you always have to do is find something that is more

Naming Fear And Shrinking Fred

SPEAKER_02 9:20

important than the fear you're feeling, you know. So I thought, um if I want to ever find that love, I'm gonna have to take the steps. I'm gonna have to date. So I was following a coach who was saying her whole program was f have the relationship you want, which directly appealed to me very much. But one thing she said to me that I will never forget, she said, When you get out there dating, you're going to have fear. Fear is going to show up. Now you have a decision to make at that point. I want, and she said, Here's what I want you to do. I want you to take that fear and I want you to shrink it down to this little guy that you can look right in the eye, separate it from yourself. You look him in the eye and you say, Thank you so much for trying to protect me. I know that you want to protect me. But what I want you to do is go over there in the corner and eat a cookie because I need to go out and do this. I have somewhere to go, and I'm gonna have to take this step if I'm going to get there. I will hear you chattering away over there. I know you're worried, but I need to be the boss and I need to go forward. And so that's where I began to understand that courage doesn't mean that you don't feel fear. Courage means that you have the ability and the determination to take a step anyway, even when you feel afraid.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

So that was the journey.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

I thought, because you talk about your little dragon named Fred, and I thought, oh, she's gonna introduce Fred, but that wasn't Fred who you told to go have a cookie.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Yes, it was. That was Fred. Oh eventually, as he well, I heard about him from that coach, but then I also read a while ago a book by Elizabeth Gilbert, Big Magic. And in there, she also looks at fear in the same way. And she said that fear keeps so many creators from actually doing what they want to do. They're afraid to put their work out there in the world, right? Yeah, so she was saying, she wrote a letter to her fear, and she said, Thank you, fear, for trying to protect me. Basically, this is my my way of my wording. But she said, and I'm going to invite you along for the ride because I know you will always be with me. So you can come in the car and you can ride with me, but you will never be driving. And so, you know, with my vivid imagination, I'm seeing this little dragon now beside me in the passenger seat or in the backseat, chattering away because he's worried about so many things. And and I just took, I had this image of fear being this huge dragon flying around my brain, always shutting me down and cautioning me. And I always thought it meant stop, you're in danger. But I didn't realize that, you know, fear also can mean you feel discomfort. So the same feelings come up as if you're gonna fall off a cliff. But you have to discern whether those feelings are about, are you gonna die or are you just going into something that you feel uncomfortable uh about, you know. So that became my Fred image, and I shrunk him down. I named him Fred because then he was, you know, just this cute little guy picture as a Disney character. I could talk to him, and now he's more of a companion, he's more a little uh friend that's with me all the time and uh warns me, but uh he's almost like a an advisor. He's more of a an advisor. It's like when I feel fear, I know something's going on. I know I'm relating to something, I'm thinking something, I'm thinking of a past or an incident, I'm afraid something's gonna happen. And so I pay attention and I start to look deeper. And so Fred becomes more like, okay, thanks, Fred. I appreciate this. So I'm gonna think this through. There's obviously something going on here, and I need to decide whether, you know, this is where too, like when you think of yourself as the boss, you know, you're really giving yourself an identity, somebody who's in control of your life. When you're allowing fear to control you, your identity, you know, fear is the thing that's bigger than you in your life. So now what I tell people to do, and something I do all the time, is I ask myself, who do I want to be here? Do I want to be the person who's over here cowering because of the fear? Or do I want to be the warrior woman who goes forward or or the person who doesn't give up, or the person who believes in what I'm doing? If I choose that identity, then my step comes out of that persona.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

I I love Fred. I'm gonna get me a Fred. You should. I'm gonna, and I absolutely love that when you're talking about because we go into, you know, I I've had several ladies who talk about, you know, going to networking meetings and how terrified they are the very first time they go. And and but being able to say, okay, who who do I want to be here? I love that. Love it. Can you tell me why do you think women disappear from their own lives, especially in midlife?

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Well, king conditioning in many ways. Like we are, we have been given the idea that, and I know I learned it partly from observing my mom and my aunts, you know, and who they were in that generation. And I mean, they were so talented and so creative, but they were women who knew their place, you know. They were, you know, the good wife, the homemaker, and the creativity in them, other than crocheting and creating in that way, really wasn't allowed to shine. And I felt so sorry because I had an aunt who was an awesome storyteller. She would have written amazing books, but you know, she just didn't have the courage to do that. And so I think we get to a certain age and we start to think, I'm done. You know, okay, from here on

Why Women Disappear In Midlife

SPEAKER_02 16:10

in, I just get old, you know, and and so there's no room for me out there in the world if I, you know, past 60. When I'm 60, and and you look at our work culture too, a lot of times we start to feel, well, 65 is that golden retirement age, right? And we also we associate retirement, we're getting better now, but many of us retirement was a scary thing because we thought that that meant we were just gonna sit, watch our favorite TV shows, maybe do a little volunteering, you know, work on a craft. That doesn't feel very purposeful to us. And so I think we start to sort of shrink ourselves until we're these little old ladies.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Yeah, I I I agree with you. I think that that's definitely where it was. And and I I agree. I think that we've society women, we have realized that there's another phase. I'm in that next phase. There's you know, I know many of those many women who are have gone to that next phase. And and I think it's understanding that we have so many gifts because we've lived life and we have those gifts that we can share, whether those are books or podcasts or whatever it whatever it is. So I'm curious, you walked on fire and you went zip lining to prove you were brave enough. So take us there. What did that moment really mean for you?

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Well, you know, by the time I met my second husband, I had worked through a lot of things. I had gone from this desperate woman who was afraid of everything to realizing that I could choose. I could choose my life, I could protect myself, I could set my boundaries, all of that sort of thing. So I felt like I was ready to do some brave things. So I made the mistake, it really wasn't a mistake, but when my husband and I were dating, I said, we we talked a lot about philosophy and about how we wanted our life to look from here on in. And I said, you know, I want to do some things that bring out my courage. And so I thought, I've never been brave enough, but it's always been kind of in the back of my mind, I want to go whitewater rafting. It's just something I've always thought would be fun to do. Well, if he didn't just go out and book us tickets at Grand Cache, which is a bit south of here in the mountains, on a very rapidy river. And he said, okay, we're booked, we're going. And so I was, you know, petrified. But that was kind of my first experience of leaving Fred in the car where he was chattering away, and I could feel the fear, but I thought the only way I'm going to get through this is to actually take the steps. And so I took the small steps. I got out of the car, closed the door, and I walked into the pavilion where they were training us. We put on our gear, they taught us everything. I went out with the crowd and just kept walking, got into the raft and went on the trip, and it was so beautiful. I not that I

Firewalking And Other Brave Proof

SPEAKER_02 19:35

wasn't afraid at first, but I realized I could relax into it and I didn't die. So then we started looking for other opportunities. So we went to a Tony Robbins event and at Tony Robbins' first uh uh seminar that he holds, it's Unleashed the Power Within, and we went to California, which also was a dream of mine to actually go to his five-day thing. But on the first day at midnight, he has all of these beds of coals laid out, and he trained you all day to anticipate that and to set your fear aside and to do walk on this fire. I wasn't going to. But by the time I got out there, it's like I said to my husband, and he was, he just was, it was nothing to him. He wanted to do it. So I said, I don't think I'm going to. I'll go with you out there, but then I'll meet you on the other side somehow. So we went up to the bed of coals and he went across, you know, just plunk, punk, punk, punk, punk. And it was quite, quite long. And so then they're right in my face because they have these cheerleaders there saying, You can do this. Say yes, say yes. And I'm going, No, I don't want to do that. Say yes, say yes. And I looked at the coals and I thought, well, they've kind of died down. Maybe it won't be so bad. Well, here, while I'm standing there, they bring this fresh wheelbarrow full of hot coals and refresh that whole bed. So there they were, the hottest coals they could be. And so I listened to them saying, yes, yes, and I thought, I'm just gonna do it. And you know, it was such a life lesson. I just put my foot out, the first foot on those hot coals, and then the next, and the next, and I went right across and I did it. And the feeling at the end was just incredible. You know, it was like, I did this, I can do anything. Like that's kind of the feeling you get. And so we did that with zip lining, where I'm terrified of heights actually on Vancouver Island. We did went to a zip line place. We went to the highest roller coaster in West Edmonton Mall. We were there once, and it was an indoor roller coaster that's just like the biggest in the world kind of thing. You're probably familiar with it. And we stood there one day when we were there very Visiting and we said, okay, let's do it. And so we bought tickets and we went on that thing. Never again would I ever go on that again. It was so terrifying. But the thing is, every time I did that, I came off feeling like I hardly recognized myself. I am able to do hard things.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

And now when I face hard things, I look back and I remember that I did those things. And I thought, same with my two babies I had. I thought, if I can do that, I can do this. And so it, you know, really became evidence.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Yeah, I think, and and you know, as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking, well, it's a building, isn't it, of courage?

SPEAKER_02 22:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

I mean, courage is like anything. We have to like self-esteem and any anything. We have to build, we have to learn it, and we get better at it and better. And and yeah. Can I ask you, were those coals hot? Like I know they were hot, but did they burn your feet?

SPEAKER_02 23:03

No, I had one little burn on my baby toe that was barely anything. I it stung a little when I got off, but no, I don't know how that happens. You get no burn on your feet, and you come off and you know, like I think that that also is a life lesson because when you're doing the hard thing, you have all these thoughts about how it's gonna hurt you, how you're going to feel, how you even if you do feel that you're gonna be so humiliated. But when you actually get in there, after you put your foot out and take that first step, you often discover that it was your fear that was telling you how bad it was going to be. And really the reality of it is that it's not that bad. You can handle it, you face it, and actually you can get pretty excited about doing it in the end.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Wow. Well, you work with women who are facing loss, change, and disappointment. So, how do you help someone find hope when they cannot see the path yet?

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Well, and I take them through now. I actually have a couple of women's groups that I have on Zoom that I work with. One of them I call Creative Spaces because they come and we talk about how courage in the beginning, and then we just all work together for an hour, and they they do something that contributes to reaching their horizon, to getting across to that other horizon. So, and then I have another group called the Tiny Brave Way, and that is where we go more in depth. Now, what these women bring is an actual situation. They're looking at their horizon and they're looking at themselves on the other side of the cavern, and they're saying, Okay, this is what I'm afraid of. And that's you, that's you know, often a wall comes up between us and what we want to do. So, what we practice doing is first of all facing your fear because you wake up your courage when you actually can say, Oh, this is fear talking, and admit that and see it for what it is. Understand the statement that's coming at you that's saying you are so afraid. Then what we do is what? Look inside and go not to what's outside, but rather who we are. And, you know, when I look back to walking on those coals and doing those things, I say, you know, I am an adventurous woman. I'm not afraid of facing a challenge. And so we come up with that identity that can and has done hard things. And then from there, we stand up for that person. It's like, okay, if this is you, then you need to be that person. You need to defend that person, you need to be okay with being that person. And so you need to let her come out more. And then from that identity, we come up with those tiny, brave steps that are not intimidating. They are challenging a little bit, but they're doable. They're doable steps. And as you probably know, the only way to get to a big goal is to take the steps. Yes, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Yes, yeah. Well, what does it mean to be brave enough to be myself?

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Well, you know, I mean, it's kind of like the whole disappearing thing, right? This is a huge barrier, and I think it's a barrier. Really, I call that book, even though it's a very simple book, lots of white spaces, lots of thought bubbles, you know, in there. But what I call it my heart on paper because it really was where I wanted to start. Because I was always afraid to be myself. You know, think of that cavern, that, you know, being on the other side, the something that you want to do or be. Often we put a picture of somebody else over there, somebody we admire and respect, somebody that we're measuring

Identity First Then Tiny Actions

SPEAKER_02 27:15

ourselves against. We put that person over there on that side of the cavern. And it really is not very inspiring because, you know, we think we have to become that person in order to be successful or in order to actually uh feel good about ourselves. We need to like who we are doesn't measure up to the standards that we've put in place. We need to just scrap all of that. And instead, what we need to do is uh find our own hearts, to look at our own strengths, and often I call them strange jewels. They're the things inside of us that are absolutely beautiful and absolutely the thing that we we've been given from the time we were born to help us walk this path that we're on and to encounter all the hard things that we do. Yours is not the same as anybody else's, it's your special jewel. So you you the the whole quest in that book is to find the courage to say, this is who I am, and I love it, and to be good with that, so that you can go and and make the impact that you're meant to make in the world.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Yeah, great. That's that's good. That was a good one.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Yeah, it's it's it's uh it's so deep and deeply ingrained in so many of us.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Yeah. So what would you say to a woman who's listening, who feels afraid, overwhelmed, and like she's waited too long?

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Yeah, that that is those are very common thoughts that we have, right? I would say, first of all, and I have this tool I call act because action is always the way to face uncertainty. So first of all, acknowledge that this is fear and it's very normal and it's okay. And it's probably telling you something because something happened in the past and you're afraid that's going to happen again. So then comes the identity step, which is like claim who you want to be. Ask yourself now if I'm on my deathbed, who do I want to have seen looking back? You know, what regrets do I not want to have? Who do I want to be here? And really think that through. Like who, you know, what kind of a person do I want them to be remembering at my funeral? I know it's morbid, but it's still a very effective thing. A lot of coaches use it. A lot of good, you know, deep thought leaders encourage you to do that. And then when you understand who you want to be, pay attention to that. Don't let everybody else. The other question you need to ask is who tells me who I am? Do you know do the does that woman across the cavern that I'm imagining I need to be, does she get to tell me who I am in my lifetime? No, I get to decide that. And and maybe you believe that God made you so He, it's only us two that get to decide who we are. This is the way I made, this is how I am. And then from there, start to take steps. Create a horizon for yourself. Think of a dream you've been burying. Think of something that you've always wanted to do and never have. Start there and start taking those tiny, brave steps, just little ones, that start to open that door. You know, research that thing you want to do. Write down a plan, write down the first step of the plan, and then take that step. You know, just get yourself moving and become the person you want to be.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Tiny steps are just so important in every in everything we do in life. I know I remember in my other career that I had many years ago, that uh things would kind of be stagnant. But as soon as I started, okay, I need to do something, even though I can't do the the things that actually make me money because that's not happening at the moment, I'm gonna do something else in my business. And I always found that as soon as I start to take that action, even if it's something minor, all of a sudden the momentum gets started. It's like we're stagnant when we're just sitting and we're not and and we're waiting or we're frozen. Isn't that true? It's so true.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

You know, you have to, the only way is is to is to actually push yourself forward, even if it's just a small way. Because then the courage shows up. If you wait for the courage to come or for the fear to go away, that will never happen. You need to do it while you feel the courage, in some small way, as a you know, it's like you stay putting a stake in the ground saying, This is who I am. I'm going to move forward. And so, however that, wherever that leads you, it'll open up.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Yeah.

unknown 32:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Well, what do you want women to know about fear that they may not have been taught?

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Well, the there is a quote, I don't know if you've ever heard it, by Ambrose Red Moon. It's been reinvented in many ways, but it's one that I held on to many years ago. And it goes like this courage is not the absence of

Fear Lessons And Final Message

SPEAKER_02 33:05

fear, which we've heard a lot, but rather the judgment that something is more important than the fear. So when you face fear, the thing is to stop and ask yourself, if I don't do this, what's going to happen? If I let fear stop me, will I regret it tomorrow or the next, you know, next week at the end of my life? Will I regret it? And I think it like that's making the the judgment that something matters more than that fear that you're feeling. It's really fear, like I said, it's trying to protect you. It's a built-in mechanism in our brain that just wants to keep you safe. And the easiest way to stay safe is to not do anything at all, right? But that makes life pretty boring and pretty non-adventurous, and you just shrink away. That's where the shrinking happens.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Wow. Well, I have just loved this conversation, Bunice. It's it's um so important. As you're talking, I'm thinking of people that I know and they're afraid to get online, and they're, you know, they they're afraid to be visible and all of those kinds of things. And and I just know that this conversation is really going to help some folks out there, especially women. Especially women. Men are men are lucky. They just there's like a they're just like a deer in the head. Like they just, you know, off they go, right? But we're like, oh, well, what if, oh, somebody sees me. Oh, oh my goodness. You know, we're just uh yeah, it's it's um, yeah, we have that. And it's and it's important to try to overcome it. And I I I just appreciate you so much for all your wisdom that you've been willing to share. I want everyone to know that we're gonna have Bernice's information in the show notes. So you will be able to reach out to her if you want to join one of her groups or you want to chat with her or you want to grab a book, but she looks like she's got some great resources that can help. So don't be afraid. Just get out there and do it. So, Bernice, I have a closing question for you. If there's one message you want every woman listening to carry with her today, what would that message be?

SPEAKER_02 35:30

It would be to really know she's here for a reason. There's a purpose, and everything inside of her matters. It's not weird, it's not just because she's not like the next person, does not make her unacceptable or not enough. She has a person inside of her that needs to impact the world, however big her world is, in the way that she's gifted to do. And she needs to look for that and use it and embrace it.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Thank you for that. Very inspirational. Thank you for that. I love it. Yeah. Oh, well, I wish we could just sit here and continue to talk, but but we can't. So unfortunately. So, well, thanks again, Bernice. I appreciate you being so honest and forthcoming. I have always wanted to attend uh Tony Robbins weekend or five days or you know, whatever it is he's got going on. And so you got me thinking I'm gonna start to kind of start to say.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Highly recommend it. It's empowering. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Okay. Well, thank you so much. And to all of you, thank you for being here for this episode of Women Like Me Stories and Business. And we will see you all again soon. Take care, everyone. Bye bye.