Jo Ann Fawcett: Narcissistic Abuse, Codependency & Reclaiming Yourself After Toxic Marriage

Seven marriages can sound like a headline, but Jo Ann Fawcett’s story is really about something quieter and harder: how easy it is to confuse loyalty with losing yourself.

In this episode of Women Like Me Stories & Business, Julie Fairhurst sits down with Jo Ann Fawcett to talk about narcissistic abuse, codependency, toxic relationship patterns, and what it takes to reclaim yourself after years of self-abandonment.

Jo Ann shares how the belief of “not enough” can begin early, how codependent patterns are often learned in families, and why repeating the same relationship dynamic can feel inevitable until you finally get the language to understand what is happening.

She also shares the powerful moment in early 2020 when things began to shift, from a psychic development exercise about cutting energetic cords to noticing a therapist’s sign that read “narcissistic abuse.” That moment opened the door to a deeper understanding of the red flags she had missed or normalized for years.

Julie and Jo Ann talk honestly about blame-shifting, gaslighting, financial drain, never being allowed to offer criticism, and the slow erosion of confidence that can happen inside toxic marriages. They also explore Jo Ann's memoir, The Prince Was Wrong, and the question at the heart of so many painful relationships: when does endurance become self-abandonment?

This conversation is also about healing. Jo Ann explains how writing, journaling, and therapy helped her process the past, break generational patterns, and begin building a life that feels free. She also shares the spiritual side of her journey, including the unseen world, energetic healing, and the practices that help her feel grounded and connected again.

If you have ever felt trapped, ashamed, confused, or afraid to name what was happening in a relationship, this episode is a reminder that you are not alone, you are not broken, and it is never too late to come back to yourself.

Subscribe for more conversations about women’s stories, healing, writing, courage, reinvention, relationships, and reclaiming your voice.

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Transcript

Welcome And Seven-Marriage Origin Story

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Women Like Me Stories and Business. I'm your host, Julie Fairhurst, and today I'm here with Jennifer, not Jennifer, I'm sorry, Joanne Fawcett. Her name's right there. I don't know where I got Jennifer from. Joanne Fawcett. So thank you so much, Joanne, for being here. I would like to start off by just telling you a little bit about Joanne, and then we're going to dive into some questions with her. So Joanne is an author, a speaker, whose story is one of survival, awakening, and choosing herself after decades of painful relationship patterns. Today we're talking about toxic marriages, narcissistic abuse, breaking family patterns, learning to love yourself, and what it really takes to move from survival into a life that feels free, honest, and fully your own. Joanne, again, thank you so much for being here. You're so welcome. I've never been called Jennifer, but you know, it's okay. You know, you know what? I I have a Jennifer on the list. It's okay. It could have been worse. It could have been worse. That's right. No problem. Okay. So your story includes seven marriages. Yes. Abuse, divorce, loss, and eventually a powerful wake awakening. So when you look back now, where do you feel your story truly began?

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Oh, let's see. Well, probably when I was a kid, you know, I grew up in the 50s and 60s, normal suburbia, you know, leave it to beaver, Donna Reed, all that stuff. And and my mom was a stay-at-home mom. And I just figured I'd grow up, I'd meet Mr. Wright, I'd start having kids, life would be grand. And even though my family wasn't a Mormon, I joined the Mormon church when I was, you know, like 10 or 12. And so again, I felt like, oh, I'm just gonna meet Mr. Wright and have this wonderful family, and I'll have all these kids because I want a ton of kids. Well, the universe knew better. And number one, I never met, I never met or married Mr. Wright. Well, I maybe met one or two, you know. It's like my favorite boyfriends are back in high school, but you know, they're yeah, it's like, okay. But I, you know, just because you belong to the same church does not mean you're gonna have a happy marriage. Because if you don't do the groundwork, you know, it's just it's gonna fail before you get a get a chance. And the universe, I must have known something was gonna happen because I had one kid instead of like the nine or twelve that I wanted, you know. Wow, wow. Yeah, well, yeah. Go ahead. It's a good thing that I didn't have kids with every husband because that would have been a nightmare trying to be a single mom to a lot of kids. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Well, you said that in each marriage you felt you were not enough. Right. Where do you think that belief came from?

SPEAKER_00 3:12

I I'm not blaming my mom or anything, but I learned some codependent patterns from her because there is, and now that I've you know worked

Codependency And Repeating Relationship Patterns

SPEAKER_00 3:20

on book three where it gets into the generational patterns, like my grandmothers and my mom, everybody kind of settled. You know, they might have liked their person that they married, but it never sounded like that it was this great love. And you know, people got married out of necessity and to get out of the house and things like that. And and and my dad was an alcoholic and he cheated on my mom. Not that we knew that till much later, but you know, we knew, and there was a time when they were separated. So I saw her trying to placate and try and say, well, you know, where's dad? It's like, and then we're all worried, and it's like, you know, how do I make my mom feel better? And and so I kind of got in the I understood that, you know, you want to please the man and you want to, you know, kind of follow their agenda and let them take the lead. And so I did fall into some codependent patterns, and you know, that didn't serve me well being married to all those people because I kept, you know, getting into the same patterns. You know, it's like these guys that felt they were all that and needed to be in charge. And one of my daughter's father was uh had substance abuse issues, so you know, it's like, oh, okay, I'm a Mormon, I've never gone to a liquor store in my life, and here I'm buying alcohol for him. Oh, and now, you know, I'm driving with him so he can go buy pot, and pot's illegal in California in the 70s. It's like, what am I doing? Yeah, but you know, you want to please the guy. And with husband number seven, even though he was, you know, I was out of the church by then, or I left the church when I met husband number seven, but and he was in prison, so you know, that's a whole nother dynamic. But he's the narcissist, so you know, that was the longest marriage, 20, 20 plus years with him. But it's like as long as you're just kind of keeping him happy and following the flow and following all his great suggestions, you know, life is great, and you don't realize that it's not until you do.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

So wow, yeah, wow, that's you so talking about your seventh, your seventh husband, yeah. So you said he was a narciss narcinist, yes, and you lived in a relationship with over 20 years. Yeah, what finally helped you name what was happening? When did you sort of wake up and realize?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

This was great. It's like right as COVID was hitting in early 2020 and before the sh the major shutdown, there was a weekend that March where I was going to take a psych. I took a psychic development course. And I think COVID was there, but

COVID Wake-Up And Naming Narcissistic Abuse

SPEAKER_00 5:55

you know, we were we might have been wearing masks. I don't even know yet. But you know, it was early days of COVID. So, but I was doing this nice psychic development course with a person that I know, and it was going the the weekend was great. And then like our last exercise was like, let's cut the energetic cord from something that's not working for you. And I thought, well, and I hadn't thought of divorce, but I thought, well, okay, the way the relationship is, because by then I was going, I don't think my needs are getting met, clearly. And it was like, and I hadn't talked to him about it yet, but it's like I just said, I need to cut the cord from the way the relationship is now. And I did. It's like, okay, that felt good. And then I was, then I was getting the courage to start telling, you know, I was gonna okay, now I've got some guts, and I'm gonna start telling him what's not working. Well, then COVID shut down everything, and there was no prison visiting for a year. So all I could do was start writing about it, and he doesn't take criticism well at all. They don't, and he, you know, doesn't they you can't tell them that they're wrong in any shape, you know, way, shape, or form. And so it was very difficult for him to accept, agree, but he kind of looked at it, but he never really agreed with anything I was saying because he would just throw it back in my face. But that early 2020, and then, you know, I was living in an affluent community in Northern California. It was his house where he grew up, but it was falling apart and I was paying for everything, and it was big and lonely. And so COVID, it's like, I'm tired. It's like I my daughter said, Why don't you just move to Portland and be part of our quarantine bubble? It's like fine. And I had a house sitter who, you know, that didn't work out after a while, but that's another story. But I had a house sitter, so I thought I was leaving the house. I moved up here so I could be around family, you know, and I was starting this communication, and then I saw I was walking in the neighborhood and I saw a sign for the person that would become my therapist. And she said her practice specialized in narcissistic abuse. It's like, oh, that's what this is. That's that's the word, because I'd never never named it. I just thought, well, this is another crappy marriage, and you know, you can't talk to him about it.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

So yes, wow, that really helped. Well, for listeners who may be questioning their own relationships, what are some of the red flags that you wish you'd known earlier?

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Yeah, and and just for for the listeners, a narcissist can be anybody in your life, it's not always your romantic partner,

Red Flags Gaslighting And Money Control

SPEAKER_00 8:35

it could be your child, your coworker, your boss, your friend, your parent. It could be anybody. But it's like, are they, you know, they don't take criticism. They always, always have to be right. They gaslight you, they make you feel like you're always in the wrong. They r well, there's not always physical, there was no physical violence with him, but but there can be. I know other people who, you know, they're persons not only narcissistic, but they were violent. And they just want, they make you feel like you're crazy and you're nuts, and it's like it's all in your head, and you're just imagining it. And it was interesting because after I left and I started bringing up this stuff, and and then I wrote my book about it. It was like, and then now I can read it's like, and it was painful to go through that. But thankfully, because of that no visiting period during COVID, it's like we were writing back and forth and arguing, and it's like I had all this fodder now for what I used in my book. It's like he just he said all this crap to me. It's like, oh, now I can quote you and I have it in writing. And it's like the last time I saw him in person, I go, you know, you were really mean to me. And he goes, I don't remember that. It's like of course you don't, but it's like I have it in writing. And I didn't tell him I was gonna write a book because at that moment I didn't know I was, but right, it's like yes, and now I look back at it and I just laugh. It's like, well, that's really silly of him to say stuff like that. Because when you hear it, it's like the good wife should be this, the good wife should do this, the good wife should be grateful that her husband has let her stay in his house in this nice neighborhood. I go, yes, but I need, you know, this neighborhood needs a three-income family to, you know, maintain it. And it's like I was making good money as a bookkeeper, I had my own business, but it's like I can't maintain this huge house in this neighborhood and you know, not and ever plan to retire. So it's like I I it was finally I was in my 60s by then, and my it's like I'm never gonna be able to retire. And that was a you know, punch in the gut because it's like, oh, I'm gonna get out of prison, I'm we're gonna fix up the house, I'm gonna take care of you. And I, you know, finally realized it's like you have a parole life without parole sentence, it's gonna be really hard for you to get out of prison legally, and then you're gonna be too, it's like, oh, I'll always be able to make money. It's like so. I I kept realizing it's like all these things he said were lies. And you know, there's this few things I still believe that he told me were true, but most of the things he told me to just keep me going on this, you know, life is gonna be grand when he gets out of prison. It's like were lies, and he's still so was it so.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Do you think that that the narcissist person actually believes what they're telling you? Yes, so yeah, that's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

And when you were talking, yeah, and I I remember, you know, I would tell him it's like I I wrote him once, or one of the times I wrote, I was like, you know, you're wrong. You know, it's like uh nobody ever tells me I'm wrong. They always think I have these great, all these great ideas. And my best friend who was in prison with him and knew him for longer than I've known him, and they're still friends, but I would say, you know, now he's been out for a while, and it's like, did he ever like, you know, leave visiting from me and like then go back and just talk smack about me? Oh yeah. It's like, well, son of a gun. And and it's like, and I go, did he sit around and just you know, did you guys always believe everything we see? No, but we just let him talk. It's like, okay. I mean, the guy is smart and he's charming and he's a good worker, and you know, he has some very fine qualities. He's highly educated, he served in the military, you know, he's got he was a military hero. So I, you know, I give him points for all that, but as a partner, no. And so it's hard for the people that know me as the speaker who used to talk about his military stuff to even fathom why I would divorce this wonderful guy, let alone be public about you know his personality.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Well, your book, The Prince Was Wrong. Now that's a pretty striking title. So, what does The Prince Was Wrong mean to you? Oh, there's the book. There's the prince. I love the cover. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. What does that mean to you now? The prince was wrong.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Well, his it's called the prince because that's his nickname, but he also comes from Germanic royal, you know, Germany used to be divided up into a lot of princedoms, and that was his German lineage. So, you know, he always went by the prince. And, you know, I think my granddaughter came up with the title because he always thought he was right. Yes, but clearly he's not always right, right? You know, and so it's just kind of spoof on that because here's Mr. Wonderful, and if you could see a close-up of the cover of the book, his crown is shattering all over the floor.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Oh, interesting. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Yeah, the princess not always right.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

No, well, many women are taught to believe that love means loyalty, patience, forgiveness, endurance. What does endurance or when does endurance become self-abandonment?

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Well, I I've learned one of the best lessons I've learned in all these marriages is like you have to love yourself and you have to stand up for yourself. And if leaving the situation is the best way for you to take care of yourself, that doesn't mean you're a you know, you're you're jumping ship, yes, but to save your life. And that, you know, he doesn't deserve your loyalty anymore. You know, if he's hitting you and your child, if he's running your finances into the if he's

Endurance Versus Self-Abandonment

SPEAKER_00 14:55

doing all these things, you know, and I'm that's the composite of all of them, but it's like, you know, it's like where where do you come into that? How is that in your best interest to let him just ruin your life or let them ruin your life numerous times? You know, that that doesn't, and that doesn't help your self-esteem. It doesn't create the bet, you know, that's you're you're doing what he needs, what he wants, but being in a happy, and even if you stay in a marriage, it's like you need to be able to be equal and and on equal footing and be uplifting both people. It's not just one spouse over the other, it needs to be up here because that's I totally you know need it's gotta be equal for me. But it took me a long time to realize that I'm worth having that. I haven't found it yet, but I'm I'm worth having it. Yes, and you know, that's the best thing you can do for yourself. And my therapist said that leaving the last one was very life-giving for me because I'm finally doing life on my terms.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Yes, absolutely, yeah. Well, you also talk about breaking generational patterns, right? So, what patterns did you recognize in your family line and how did they show up in your life?

SPEAKER_00 16:13

So I think I mentioned it, but yeah, my grandmothers, as I was doing research for my new book, my grandmothers

Breaking Generational Patterns Through Writing

SPEAKER_00 16:20

would told me that uh, well, you know, I I didn't necessarily love him, but he was a really nice guy, and you know, he was kind, and we got along. So life, well, we had a lovely marriage. Nobody ever said he was my great love, you know. But it was like, you know, you want to get out of your parents' house, and there weren't a lot of options in the 1800s, early 1900s, of course, you know, and you're in this farming community, so everybody seemed to meet somebody at the square dance at church. But it was like, yeah, you know, okay, he's the best option, you know, and he was kind to me and he didn't step on my feet when we danced, and you know, he didn't beat me up when we were married, and he didn't cheat on me. And so there are things was like, you know, I I like we liked each other, we got along, and and that was as good as it got. And I was like, well, that that sucks because that was me. I settled. So that was that was a big pattern. And now through my working with my dead grandmothers, it's like we've broken that pattern, and I'm hoping that that's has stopped with me, and that my daughter never has another crappy relationship or marriage, and that my grandchildren don't start. Yes, yes, yeah. And I think I was just saying, thankfully, there were some good patterns that I realized it's like, oh, that grandmother, you know, they like to sew, they like to bang, dah dah, dah, dah. So some of those fun creative things have gone down, you know, moved down through the lines too.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Yes, yes. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. There's good and and bad. And and it's just waking up and realizing, you know, what's happened. And like you say, you're doing it for now, you could do it for your daughter and your grandkids, and and I'm in the same way. My my tagline for women like me is stopping generational trauma one story at a time. So I'm I'm with you on that. I know. I am with you on that. Yeah. So what role did writing play in healing? Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

I and I didn't I didn't think of it that way when I wrote the first book. I just, you know, somebody had said, well, why don't you write your story? I was like, oh, okay. But I found, especially as I did the second book and now the third book, it's like I can write about this and explain it, what I went through to people. So it was more like the sharing the experiences. And then I journal, I journal a lot. I try to journal every day. So just for me, the process of writing and talking about it, and then I could let it go. And so, and I I really I don't think of myself as a victim. Yes, I went through some crappy, some horrendous, you know, I lived through it. I'm fine. Would I choose to be married seven times again? No. Do I advocate that? No. Yeah, but I guess I'm not the only person in the world who's been married seven times or more. So I'm fine.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

I actually, I actually I wasn't sure whether I was gonna say it, but my best friend has been married seven times.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Oh my goodness. Yeah, and see if there's a you're not the only one. Thank you. Well, you know, you have Liz Taylor and Jah Gabor and Mickey Rooney, and and there's even a book, and I don't know if she's a real actress, but there's a book about an actress about the like the seven husbands of somebody Hugo. It was a it was a great story, but it just I found that the writing has been very healing, and it's I don't know how to totally explain it, but I can see on paper, oh, here's the lessons that I learned. Yes, you know, and this is because this is what I want people to see. Number one, that we're not alone. Number two, there's you know, find the way that will help you go through the process. So for me, it was therapy and writing and some talking because I had some things I needed to share with my daughter and my older sisters, like, oh, you know, you never knew, but this happened. Yes, yes, you know, so that that's really helped. And now that I'm done with book three and it's about to launch, now my older sister and I are working on a cozy mystery series, and it's like all of a sudden these creative juices are just going and I I feel free to write fiction. And I never thought, oh, I can't write fiction, I'm not that creative. Yeah, I I can knit, I can bake, I can do all the, but I can't write fiction. Well, now I'm writing fiction and I'm having a ball. Oh, that's wonderful!

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Oh, that's awesome! Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've written about your life as a prison wife. I have what did that experience teach you about love, loyalty, and losing yourself? I would I would tell people, don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

You know, probably there's a lot of a lot of prison wives that I

Prison Wife Reality And Isolation

SPEAKER_00 21:05

met, you know, they knew their guy before he went to prison. So they were already in love with him or they'd been friends before. So that's kind of different. I would say if you're young, especially if you don't know the guy, you know, I wouldn't, you know, bless them. I mean, there's there's some okay guys in there that are in there for the wrong reasons, and just some guys, even though that have turned their lives around, but it's a hard life. And especially if you know, it's a hard life because they expect you, they want you to go visit all the time. So, I mean, unless except for when mine was like a 10-hour drive away, I would go visit him every weekend and not necessarily both days of every weekend because, like, you know, one day is enough. I need a day off myself. You know, I work all the time. So it's hard, and it is a financial drain because you're paying for visiting, you're paying for driving there, and if if it's if you have to Sometimes he's been places where I've had to pay for a hotel because then I go, you know, it's far enough, so you go for the whole weekend. You're paying for the visiting, the food in visiting. And then if you've got kids that we didn't have, but if you have kids, then you got to pay for your kids to eat, you know, and you're wrangling your kids in the visiting room. And you're in a big room with a bunch of people and there's no privacy, you know. And it was many years till we got the you know, two-day overnight visit thingies. And but it it's a difficult life because that you know, you say that most all my clients, pretty much most of my like clients and stuff, they knew that's that's who I was. And it's like, you know, they didn't really judge me if they did. They, you know, we didn't bring it to work, but you know, people look at you kind of differently when you're talking about, you know, oh, my husband's in prison, and you know, so and it's not like he was selling drugs in there and sending me drug money home and helping the family income. I I was, you know, I built a- I mean it wasn't good fellas. No, no, no, I was I was and back in the early days of his prison life, they had really good hobby programs so you could make cool things and sell them to the guards or in the the gift shop that most of the prisons had. So he was making like elaborate doll houses and stuff and selling them for hundreds of dollars, and that was before I knew him. But so there were opportunities, and like some guys make jewelry and stuff, so there were legitimate ways to make money to send home to your family, right? But I met him, that was not the case. So I built my business up and you know, I paid for you know, all the visiting, I paid for all the repairs at the house. And like I said, it wasn't like I lived in a tiny house and that didn't need anything, it was a hundred-year-old house that needed stuff all the time. Yes, so it was difficult and it it isolates you from your family. You know, my family never knew him before we got married. My daughter met him at our wedding, but it's like, okay, do I spend the holiday with him or my family? Can I split the holiday? It kind of depended on where he was uh stationed, you know, at the time. For quite many years, the prison was only a couple hours from my family, so I could see him and then go to their house for the rest of the holiday. So, you know, but they they weren't happy, and it's like they my daughter said, Mom, we just wanted to shake you. I was like, I am so sorry. I wish you would have shaken me, you know, uh yeah before it got in too deep.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

So yeah, wow. Well, your first memoir you wrote is Midlife Magic. Is that correct? And it includes oh, oh, that's a beautiful cover, too. So it includes UFO sightings, spirits, elements, and magic. How did spirituality or the unseen

Spirituality Magic And The Unseen

SPEAKER_01 24:55

world support your healing?

SPEAKER_00 24:58

I when I met, thankfully, you know, the best part of meeting number seven is that it helped open my eyes up and I left the Mormon church. So that's you know, that just happened. It's like, and then I started learning about magic and witchcraft, and especially as a positive, I only use positive magic, and I learned about elementals in the fairy realm, and I had experiences seeing and experiencing spirits before I met him, and and then that came alive again. So it's just it it just speaks to my soul. Yes, speaks to my soul, and and I'd never thought about the UFO stuff, but that's what he did in the military. He and his dad were involved with that part of the military. Oh, so I got to learn, you know, I I saw at UFOs once I you know learned more about that from him, and then he was explaining to me about the military's involvement with all that, and so I learned about a lot of non-human species, and that's that's pretty cool, interesting information for me, and and I just love that. And I still believe in all that today, and I still have a very magical practice, and you know, it's just part of my life. I yes um I talk to the trees and the flowers and everything when I'm walking, and you know, the the spirit.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

So, do you think that that was ingrained in you as you uh throughout your life? But I would imagine in the Mormon church it was not not something you'd want to be talking about.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yeah, it's funny because the Mormon church is fully aware, all the major churches are fully aware of space stuff and alien presence, alien right, the reality of aliens. They just don't talk about it from the pulpit, but they're fully involved in it. Yeah, they're very aware of it, they go to conference, they're very aware of it, and they often help deal with them, they often work with the military around those issues. So it's very interesting that they all keep very, you know, the the Vatican, the Catholic Church has a couple of their own observatories, so you know they're very interested in all that stuff. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, but and and the Mormon Church also believes very actively in the spirit world and that we they you know they they don't promote like sitting around at a seance or anything, and I don't do that anyway, but they they have no problem, I don't think, with you, you know, understanding that the spirit world might just be right there, and you know, so it's not some far, far away. But I've also learned different things about the spirit world now that I'm not in the, you know, yes, not in the Mormon Church. So I believe differently from the doctrine. Yes, but I do love to be able to be in a room like, oh, there's a there's a presence here. Yeah, yes, yeah, and and I and I can't talk directly to them, but I work with a channeling medium and I can talk to them that way. But I can see them, I I see them as shadows or just I can feel the presence. I've uh have other friends that can, you know, would see their full person, you know, full like what they look like when they were alive. So yeah, wow, yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Yeah, well, you describe yourself as a survivor, resilient, and someone who loves herself enough to create her best life. What does self-love look like for you today in everyday life?

SPEAKER_00 28:28

For me, it's being uh agreeing

Self-Love Thriving And Finding Community

SPEAKER_00 28:35

to work less, not being a workaholic. And it's you know, it's okay to start retiring. I can't fully retire, you know. I need to supplement my Social Security, even though it's it's a you know, I just because I choose to pay my taxes and have money for travel. I could probably live on it, but I want I I want a little slush. And I didn't have a retirement fund because I was self-employed. The guy's in prison, so you know, my retirement dream went out the window with him. Yeah, but that's okay. It would have never happened anyway. So it's about taking care of yourself, it's about going on my walks, it's about realizing that I am a lovable person, whether I'm sitting here by myself with me and the cat, you know, it's okay. And it's okay to feel my feelings, and it's okay to have crappy, you know, it's okay to feel sad and lonely when that happens. But I get out in in my neighborhood, it's like, oh yeah, it's a nice day. This is really cool. But I also it's like I I go get a massage once a month, and I'm now starting to travel. And so I, you know, I do things to take care of myself that lift my soul, or I'll I'll buy that yarn for that new knitting project I want to do, and I'll read I read a lot of books. So, you know, I just do some things that feed my soul.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

That's perfect, absolutely. So, what do you what do people often misunderstand about women who have been through multiple toxic relationships?

SPEAKER_00 30:07

They they often I think I think it's like, well, how could you, you know, how could you how could you stay with that guy? You know, why didn't you leave sooner or why didn't you call the cops? You know, it it's really hard to do that. Because number one, if you don't have money, it's hard to leave.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Many times I could go move back in with my family until I got myself back on my own feet. So I wasn't, you know, burdened with a lot of rent and stuff like that. That helped a few times. And and when my daughter was young, her her dad had committed suicide, and I was living with my family, so I wasn't having to pay rent necessarily, but I also had widder widows' survival benefits and things. So I didn't have to go back to work right away. So that that was really nice. But a lot of people think, well, how could you stay with that guy? He's such a jerk, or he's hitting you. It's like, why? Because it's not as easy to leave. And if your self-esteem is in the toilet, excuse me, it's like it's hard to leave. Yeah, and if you don't know what the resources are available, you know, you don't know your plan of action. So it's like, I, you know, one of some of the things I tell people is like, you know, know who you can run to, know who you can go get help from, call the cops, like I didn't, if you need to like do the things that will protect you and your children.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Yeah. And wow, it's not easy. It's not easy. No, it's no, it's not easy. And I think that you know, we can't, there's just no judgment because unless you've walked in someone's shoes, how can you know? And and you know, I don't know. I know people sometimes wonder why, why, why, but you know, until you're in that situation, because it's not like you're healthy, it's like you've been bombarded with all of this. They push you down, the negativity. You're not the, you know, you're not the vibrant person you once were.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

No, and you know, especially if you're abused, it's like then five minutes later, or you know, later, whatever, it's like, oh, I love you, I'm so sorry, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, it's like, oh, you just hit my kid and I. Oh, I'm so sorry, I'll never do it again. And you you want to believe that.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Yes, yes, yes, for sure. Yeah. You want to believe that. Yeah. Well, what does thriving look like for you now?

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Well, especially because I am older, you know, I'll be 72 at the end of July. Oh, you look spectacular. Thank you. Yep. And I I have cut back some clients, so I'm I'm having more free time, and I'm really having fun marketing this new book that's coming out. And I have some act, you know, I have some in-person events planned for that, and I've got some day trips that I'm planning for the summer, and I've got some travel things. I've already been on one cruise this year, so and then my daughter and I are going to New Hampshire in the fall because she has a speaking engagement. And I said, Well, why don't I come and we do fall in New Hampshire? And I've lined up a book signing while I'm there. So wow, good for you. So it's just, you know, means it's like I'm I'm giving myself permission to not work 12 hours a day. And it's like, oh, it's five o'clock. I can stop working now. Yes, let's pull out the book or the knitting project and watch our favorite show or something. Yes, exactly. I can do what I want to do. And and I found, you know, I belong to a well, it's an international, but a women's publishing group. So, you know, we I have events with them or you know, online things. So I belong part of a publishing community, you know, writing, publishing. So I have a lot of author friends, and then locally there's a bookstore that hosts a lot of author events. So I've got a and I do silent writing there. So I'm getting I'm trying to get myself out there because I, you know, I work home and at home alone. So it's like I need some friends, so you know, I'm starting to make friends, you know, especially in my writing community, and that's really nice.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Yes, for sure. Yeah, yeah. It's hard on a lot of women these days, even myself. I I work at home. I mean, I'm my I'm married, my husband comes home, but but still to have your, you know, we need girlfriends. And uh so I've joined networking groups and business networking groups, and so you know, I I've made friends that way. And so I'm telling saying this because if there's anyone out there who's feeling lonely, like like what we've just been discussing, you know, there's you know, find a networking group or like you say, an author group. Like, what is it that you love to do? Find find a bunch of people that are doing that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

And it's it's funny because the dating apps are not working. I'm just gonna put it out there. The dating apps are not working properly. And and I've I've researched, I need to start like joining some meetup groups for people my age. It's like, and those are a lot cheaper than the dating apps.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

And I'm hoping that that will, you know, make me some friends too. But I've yeah, I found some day trips in you know, this area near Portland. And oh, we're gonna go up the river or we're gonna go out to the coast. And a travel agency hope, you know, hosts organizes the whole thing. It's like, good, I don't have to drive and I'll be with other people that want to do the same thing. So you know, I might create my own fun activities and just do what I because you know my daughter lives nearby. We see each other a lot, but you know, she's got her own life.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Yes, exactly. No, for sure. Well, I want everyone to know that we are gonna have Joanne's information in the show notes. So if you'd like to grab her books, we'll have links so you'll be able to reach out to her or or know where

Closing Words And Book Links

SPEAKER_01 35:55

you'll be able to purchase those books from. So thank you. You're welcome. So, Joanne, if your books could sit beside one woman tonight who feels trapped, ashamed, confused, what would you want them to whisper to her?

SPEAKER_00 36:15

You're not alone, you are okay, just the way you are, and take care of yourself and love yourself and do what do what you need to do.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah, that's that's a beautiful message. Yeah, for sure. Well, I have loved our conversation. Thank you. Yeah, it was great. And and yeah, so I will put all of her information in the show notes, you guys. So grab those books, have a look. Oh, look at that. What is that? Wisdom from this is the new one that's coming out.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Wisdom from my grandmother's.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Oh, that's beautiful. So when is this one out? This comes out July 2nd. So two. Oh, I was gonna say, because that's your proof. You're showing you.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

That is my proof copy, yes, but it's coming out in two weeks.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

So, how many books do you have before we go?

SPEAKER_00 37:05

I have I have three published books, including the new one and a healing journal that I did to go with um the the Prince book, the narcissist book, so people could journal if they wanted to. So I have four things published, and then you know I'm working on the the fun mystery stuff.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Yes, yeah, yes. You know, it's funny because I've never I've never written that either, that genre. And I sometimes think I should give it a try. I might be pretty good at it.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Well, I took a class to learn the rules, yeah, and then my sister and I just brainstorm all the ideas, you know, who are the care? And it's funny because the characters are all our family members and our friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and then we just okay, now who's gonna be the killer and who's gonna be all the false suspects, and uh so and we watch a lot of mysteries and we both read a lot of mysteries, you know. We we sat on our cruise and go, okay, what about this? And what about this?

SPEAKER_01 37:59

Oh well, good luck, yeah. And when you get and when you ladies get it written, let's do another podcast and we'll promote those books as well. So wow, you're welcome. Okay, everyone. Well, unfortunately, our time is up. I want to thank you for being here and hopefully we'll see you the next episode of Women Like Me Stories and Business. Bye bye, everybody.