Stop Saying Yes: The Boundary Test Every Woman Needs | Paula Mathias

Your calendar can look “full” and still be empty of you.

In this powerful conversation, Julie Fairhurst sits down with author and speaker Paula Mathias to unpack the quiet way women disappear inside lives that look fine from the outside. Together, they explore how women can come back to themselves through practical, repeatable choices — one pause, one boundary, one honest no at a time.

Paula draws on her years as a technical recruiter in the tech industry, where she saw the same pattern again and again: women get hired, then struggle to stay when they do not feel heard, are interrupted, and carry extra emotional and invisible labor just to belong.

Julie and Paula talk candidly about imposter syndrome, being the only woman in the room, workplace confidence, invisible labor, burnout, overgiving, and the lifelong conditioning that teaches girls to be quiet, helpful, agreeable, and easy to like — even when those habits quietly cost them their careers, their wellbeing, and their voice.

Paula also shares her powerful Yes Test Method:

Is it yours?
Is it essential?
Is it sustainable?

From the “office mom” snack story to the pressure of being the default person at home, this episode gets real about how boundaries are actually built in everyday life. You’ll hear how to pause before the automatic yes, try a “no for now,” negotiate instead of overfunctioning, and remember that someone else’s emergency does not always have to become your priority.

This conversation is for the woman who is tired, stuck, resentful, overbooked, overneeded, and quietly wondering where she went.

It’s time to stop disappearing inside everyone else’s needs.

Subscribe, share this with a woman who needs a stronger no, and leave a comment with the boundary you are practicing next.

Paula Mathias, Author and Speaker
https://paulamathias.com/

Books: 
The YES Test: https://a.co/d/08mQsqJu
Speak Up: https://a.co/d/06iE4lWS

If this conversation stirred something in you… good. That’s where change begins.

Make sure you’re subscribed, share this with someone who needs it, and if you’re ready to tell your story, step into your voice, or build a life that actually feels like yours… You’re in the right place.

I’m Julie Fairhurst, and this is where stories turn into power.

Go to my website if you would like to be a guest on the Women Like Me Stories & Business in the toolbar click Let's Podcast

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Women Disappear

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Women Like Me Stories in Business. Today I've got an interesting lady here from California. And uh so we are gonna dive in to all sorts of really good stuff. So her name is Paula Mathias. Did I get that right? Yay! She's an author and a speaker from California whose work speaks to something so many women quietly, quietly understand the moment you realize that you've built a life that looks right on the outside, but somewhere along the way you've started to disappear. So Paula is also the author of the Yes Test and Speak Up. And today we are going to talk about what it means to stop living on autopilot, listen to your own knowing, and begin choosing a life that actually feels like yours. So, Paula, welcome to the podcast and thank you so much for being willing to do this with us. Of course.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Thank you, Julie. Thanks for so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here. Oh fun. I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Me too, me too. Okay. So let's go. So before we get into the yes test, I would love for listener listeners to know who you are behind your work and what brought you to the conversation today.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yeah, thank you. So what really brought

Recruiting Women And Losing Their Voices

SPEAKER_01 1:47

me to the conversation today is I worked as a technical recruiter for probably 10 to 15 years. And when I worked in that job, I realized how difficult it was to recruit women specifically. But even harder than recruiting women in the tech industry was retaining them, so keeping them there. And I did a lot of research about it because it's one thing to be able to recruit somebody, but the harder part is retaining them. And I really realized that they didn't feel oftentimes like they had a voice. You know, they came in, they knew what they were doing, they knew what they were talking about, they were experienced, but a lot of times they were put on the back burner, or they didn't speak up the same way that their counterparts did, their colleagues did. They weren't heard the same way, they didn't advocate for themselves. And a lot of times they felt like everything was a struggle. Because when you're always fighting for yourself, when you're always asking for somebody to listen to you, or always having to like raise your voice because somebody's speaking over you, it gets exhausting. And I realized that it was happening to me too, even though I felt like I was a strong woman and I was very successful. There were areas in my life too where I was letting those things happen to me too. You know, I was being interrupted. I talk about Ian, the interrupter, who would always interrupt me whenever I'd whenever I spoke, he would cut in, you know, as if what he was saying was more important than what I was saying. And what I came to realize after being in a boardroom where I was the only woman, and instead of taking up space and instead of doing my thing, I shrunk and I got so intimidated that I kind of ran into that imposter syndrome. And I shrunk, and I was, I compared myself to like a mouse in a corner, you know, just kind of like hiding and squeaking, but without saying anything. And afterwards, I was so angry at myself. I was so mad at myself. I was really kicking myself and saying, why, you know, why do we do that in so many areas of your life? You're strong and you're you speak out, but in these specific areas, you really don't. You really shrink and make yourself small. And what I realized, what it it was, what it boiled down to was it was a choice that I was making. Because nobody was putting me in that corner. No, nobody was intentionally making me feel small. I mean, they probably could have been more welcoming or been more of an ally or an advocate. But the bottom line was it was a choice that I was making. It was a choice that I was making to be quiet and stay small. And so when I started talking to the other women that I worked with, it became apparent that we were all making these choices to play in the background or to actually let somebody take credit for your work or to speak over you. And even though it's really hard not to, and everything inside of us sometimes is telling us to be the good girl, to not rock the boat, to not cause problems, to make other people comfortable, it boils down to a choice that we're making. And so that is what brought me to write my books, speak up. And then just recently, the yes test method.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Well, why do you think we do that as women? Like, why are we, why are we look why are we doing this?

SPEAKER_01 5:19

So the reason why we're doing this, I've done so much research, of course, if you know, when writing my books, because I thought thought the same thing. Like, I'm so

The Conditioning That Trains Us Quiet

SPEAKER_01 5:26

strong in some areas, I'm outspoken. But when it comes to these certain circumstances, I shrink myself as like, why do I do that? But the truth is that what when we're little girls, we are rewarded for that behavior. That kind of behavior that doesn't serve us at work or really in life, we're rewarded for in the classroom, we're rewarded for when we're little girls. We're rewarded like to be the quiet one, to be the one that's not argumentative or not causing problems, to be the little girl who, you know, doesn't rock the boat and doesn't make other people uncomfortable or feel bad, you know, or the helpful ones, you get you get kudos for all of those things. And and they're not bad things, but when your behavior is constantly rewarded, and then you get in another environment where you're kind of thrown into that, but it doesn't really, it doesn't really work for you.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Wow. Yeah, that was a great explanation for sure. I yeah, the classroom is a good one. The classrooms have very, a very good one. Wow. Yeah, well, and I and I think as you were talking, I was thinking, well, then we're just all running on autopilot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Well, that's you know, that is kind of the premise of my book. The yes test is we say yes to so many things. And I love to say that we can do so many things as women, we can handle so much stuff, we could take on so much stuff, we could run everything, but that doesn't mean that we should. Right. You don't have to say yes to everything, yeah. And I became really aware of that, you know, after I had that boardroom scenario, what it boiled down to was that by not speaking up and by not using my voice and by not showing people what I was capable of, I was letting them decide who I was. I was letting them decide what I was capable of. And really, I was letting them decide my future in a way, because they made assumptions about what I was capable of. That meant promotions or responsibilities or roles, whatever that meant. And without me having a voice in it, just letting other people decide. And so, you know, by singing that, I was letting other people decide my future in a way. And it was the same at home, too. You know, we take on so much, whether we have kids or families or households to run, you know, we do, we, we organize the dental appointments. I mean, we yeah, hire the gardener or whatever, you know, we fix the lunches. I mean, we do take care of so many things.

unknown 8:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

But here's here's the thing that I really hit me was I had goals. I had things that I wanted to do. I had a career that I wanted to build. And every yes, everything that I said yes to, you know, if you

Autopilot Yeses And The Burnout Trap

SPEAKER_01 8:34

picture that you have so much time in a day, every yes, your time gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And pretty soon you have no time for what is important to you, what matters to you, and building the life that you want. So you're saying yes to everybody else's priorities and not to your own.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

And pretty soon, or there's just no time. You've you've used up all your valuable time. Right now you're exhausted.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah, now you're exhausted, and your life goes by. Yeah, and you're and then you like, you know, 10 years later, you're like, What happened?

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Yeah, wow. Well, let's talk about the yes test. So, where did that framework come from? And why did you choose these three questions? I think it's it is yours, it is essential, and it's sustainable. Sustainable, yeah.

The Yes Test Three Questions

SPEAKER_01 9:29

So I was really, like you said, exhausted in my life, saying yes to everything, trying to do everything, but then not really accomplishing anything that was my own. And I was driving, you know, driving kids to soccer practice or whatever, and a podcast came on, and on the podcast, they talked about priorities and prioritizing your life, like figuring out what is important to you in your life and kind of naming those priorities, like three of them or five of them, and then using that to weigh what you do. And I started living like that. So, you know, figuring out what my priorities were, and that was what I said yes to first. So, for example, if my first priority was my, I always think your first priority should actually be yourself because if your cup is empty, you can't serve anybody else.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

No, you can't.

unknown 10:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

So my first priority was myself, and so my second one was my kids, for example. But my boss called and asked, can you come into work on the Saturday? Well, if I if I looked at my priorities and I'm exhausted already because I've already worked five days a week or whatever, and my kids have something going on that Saturday, then it's very clear that that's a no. But if my career is my first priority or my second priority, then it's a yes. So I lived that way for a long time. It really helped me get clarity my life. And so when I was writing the yes test, I wanted to create a framework for that kind of mindset of priorities. So I came up with the yes test, and it's an acronym for yes. So when something pops up, when somebody asks you to do something or take something on, you run it through the yes test. So that is, is it yours? Is it essential? Is it sustainable? So I can give you an example. When I was working in the tech world, one day my boss came to me and said, Can you order? And he's like, You're a mom, can you order snacks for the office? And I was like, Well, that's weird because you know I'm a technical recruiter, but okay, you know, I'll and I just automatically said yes. Yeah, just yes, even though it was it's kind of like, well, I am a mom, but you know, see me. Is that a qualification?

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Yeah, my children here, but okay, sorry, we could.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

But I said automatically yes. And months went by, and that job of I'll call it the office mom got bigger and bigger. So it started with snacks, and then it went to can you order the coffee pods? Can you order the let's do lunches on Wednesday? Order the lunches, you know, so it got it snowballed. And I kept saying yes, I kept saying yes, I kept saying yes. And then pretty soon I was getting known as the office mom. And even though I was recruiting these huge jobs as software developers and DevOps and VPs and all this stuff, I was still the person who would buy snacks. And it was because I was, I never said no. And so finally I was like, I don't have time for building the career that I want because I'm spending like an hour at Costco buying 500 granola bars or whatever. You know, why am I doing this? So in that scenario, I ran it through the yes test. Was it mine? Is it yours? You know, the why of yes, is it yours? It wasn't mine to buy granola bars. No, no, I was I was the go-to person for that because I was just there. I was like the first person that he kind of ran into. So it wasn't mine. Was it essential? Was it essential to my job that I was the office mom, that I was the person that supplied the snacks? It was not essential. Now, maybe somebody else's job that would be essential. Yes, but for me, it was not my role, it wasn't essential. There was somebody else who could actually do it, who was better for the role. So it was not essential. Was it sustainable? Which means is it something that can keep going without me feeling resentful, angry about it? Was it sustainable? Absolutely not, because by the time I bought the last box of granola bars, I was so mad about it. I was so angry. I was like, I never eat granola bars anymore. So it was not sustainable. So it wasn't mine, it wasn't essential, and it and it wasn't sustainable. So that was a no. So I knew that I had to figure out how to get out of this office mom role. It was not for me, it was a no. So I actually ended up hiring somebody who could kind of take that role on plus some other roles, but but you know, so passing it on. Yeah. And what I really learned from that was that you know, we have a hard time saying no. We have so much guilt associated with saying no. But by me saying no, I gave the opportunity to somebody else. And we never think about that. No, we never think about the benefits of saying no. Maybe somebody else wants to do it, maybe someone else thinks it's fun, or you know, it's a new open opening a door for somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Um, what I realized with the yes test is when you are so clear on what your goal is, and mine was growing my career, not not my office mom career, but my recruiting career. Yeah, I was so clear on my goals. So it made made it a lot less guilt when I said no to things. And that made all the difference.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Yeah. Wow. That's that again, great, great example of what we do to ourselves by not saying no. So for women who've spent years being the helper, the fixer, the peacekeeper, or the dependable one, how can they begin to tell the difference between what is truly simple that they've been carrying

Boundaries For The Default Caretaker

SPEAKER_00 15:39

that they shouldn't be? Maybe they're confused. I guess the yes test is going to help.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Yeah, the yes test. Well, don't you think if you're confused, for me, kind of a litmus test of something that I'm doing, but I don't really want to do it, is that feeling. You kind of get that feeling in the pit of your stomach every time you do it. You the resentment builds up, right? Yeah. And you know, when I realized that what my goal was was to grow my career, that is when it came so clear to me. So if you're the people pleaser, if you're the default, I think that's what it is too, a lot of time, the default, the default person, especially at home. I think we became the default person a lot of times. Like, mom will do it or she'll take care of it, or you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Yeah. You know, I uh I I was in sales and marketing before I did this. And two of my boys uh came on to work with me. And it burned me out because their free time was my work time. So, oh, oh, I have to take, you know, I have to take so-and-so to the pool today. Can you go do it? Oh, I'm not able to do it because blah, blah, blah. Can you can you just do it? And you know, a lot of times people go, Oh, isn't that nice that you worked with your kids? I'm like, if I could do it again, I wouldn't. I mean, they're lovely and they're very successful in what they're doing, but that mom, and it was my fault because I didn't set the boundaries and I didn't say, you know, I've just been working like eight days straight. You guys go do it. I didn't. I went, oh well, my grandchild does need to go to the pool, so I guess I'll take over the, you know, and it just so it is hard for us as women.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

I know, don't you think we are? We do become the default person, right? Yes, yes. It's and we, you know, in that case with your boys, the thing that really got to me once I once I really started deep diving into it was that hey, you know what? My time matters. Yes, my time matters just as much as your time matters. And I think for a long time I wasn't even treating my time like it mattered as much as other people's. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 18:06

And that's why it's basically our responsibility because we teach people how to treat us.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

We really do. We really do. And same with, you know, I think you mentioned boundaries, and that is such an important part of it. You really have to decide what you're willing to tolerate and what you're not by setting by setting boundaries and then sticking to them, which we all know that's the hardest part.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Well to stick to them. Sticking to them, but also that first few no's like you could go into panic mode because you're gonna say no. Yeah. And how do I say that? And I've never said no to these people before. So, you know, like with what you were up to. I mean, luckily you could hire somebody to take over the position. But I mean, I guess we can too. We can, you know, hire cleaners or whatever it is that we need to help us to make our lives easier. But that first no has got to be the hardest.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

So I always say, yeah, that's true. You have to be brave to say that first no. But it could also mean a no for now, or it could mean the one that I really like is it's yes, I can do it, but we need some negotiations here. And I think that's what really applies to like your household is yes, I can take this on, but I'm gonna need you to take on this thing, you know, so it's even, it's not just you continuously taking it on, taking it on. It's it's a negotiation. So even though the yes test, you know, sometimes ends in a no, it's can't it's not always a solid no. It could be a no for now or let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

And sometimes that takes away.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

That makes it that makes it seem easier, doesn't it? It kind of takes that that uh hard burden off of it, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:02

But what it does do as well is it takes away that automatic yes because the yes test is meant to be in that pause. So when someone asks you to do something before you just yes, you know, you just blurt it out. Yes, I can take that on. The yes test is in that pause before you blurt out the yes. So you just think about it. And once you get used to it, it's it goes by quick. You know, you don't have to take five minutes to run it through the run it through it in detail, but it makes you conscientious of that you have a choice, you don't need to do the automatic yes, you have a choice.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Yeah, yes. Well, have you seen women realize they were saying yes to things that their body, heart, and soul had already said no to? And what happens when they finally admit the truth?

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah, don't we feel that stress? I mean, I've done that before, haven't you? Yeah, so stressful and builds up that resentment as well. I think it's really unhealthy, you know, because your body is literally telling you, don't do it. Don't say yes. Your body is saying no. Yeah. But we say yes out of guilt. And I always think about you know, other people's emergencies or other people's priorities don't have to be ours and they shouldn't be ours. You know how someone comes to you and they're like, I have this problem, I have this problem, you gotta help me, you gotta help me. And yeah, I mean, if it is a true emergency, yes, we're all human, we want to help each other. But some people just always have an emergency, that's how they live, and those emergencies become yours a lot of time. Yeah, and the more you say yes, yes to those, the less time you have for yourself and for doing what matters to you.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

And for your own emergencies, yeah. We all have them from time to time, but yeah, if you're constantly, yeah, I'm just thinking of about a family member that's constantly having an emergency.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Everything's we all have those family members. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

God loves them. Yeah, but it's drama. Yeah, drama. And it can definitely take over if you're not careful or if we if you give yourself too much to it because that exhaustion sets in, whether it's work or whether it's dealing with people's emotions or people's emergencies, it takes that energy from you. And at the end of the day, what do you have left for yourself?

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Yeah. And like you said, you know, you have to be your own priority. You have to take care of yourself. You know, if your cup is empty, you're not of use to anybody, not including yourself. For sure. So taking care of yourself, prioritizing yourself in all of this, I think is key. And people like that can really drain you. You know, they can really drain you. They always have something coming up, they always have an emergency. And, you know, as you said too, you you teach people how to treat you. So every time you say yes to that, it's just telling them it's okay. It's okay. It's okay. So I was so I used to work a lot, like 24-7 practically. I was on, I was just made myself available all the time. I thought that's how you got ahead, really, is by making yourself available all the time. And

Always Available Teaches People Fast

SPEAKER_01 23:33

I remember I was on a girls' weekend in Santa Barbara, and we were, you know, trying on clothes, having a good time. Like we had lunch and wine, and we went to try on some clothes. And I was in the dressing room trying on this cute summer dress, and my boss called me. And it was a Saturday at like two o'clock. And I automatically answered the phone. I'm like half-dressed, picked up the phone, you know, what's what's going on? How can I help? And it was just like some mundane question he had. It wasn't important. We were not heart surgeons by any means, you know, it was just like some very mundane, everyday question. But he just it just popped into his head and he was used to me because I had taught him that I was always available. He was used to being able to just having a thought pot pop into his head and call me and ask me a question, no matter when it was. So that was also a big realization, which that I needed to come to terms with was that I was treating him or I was teaching him how to treat me. And that goes back to even the snack story. The reason why he asked me to buy snacks in the first place was that because I said yes to everything and I was always available.

unknown 24:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

So I really, you know, it took some took some hard lessons for me to come to terms with if I want to be respected and looked at in a certain way, and I want my career and my life to go in a certain way, I have to take back my yeses. I have to own my yeses and make sure that they mean something when I say them. Because my my time matters and what my life goals and what I want to do in life, it matters. It matters too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Well, why do small decisions matter so much?

SPEAKER_01 25:22

I really think they add. So, you know that saying if you give an inch, they'll take a mile.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Oh my goodness, I haven't heard that for years, but yes, I do know that one.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

And don't you think it's true? So, like, you know, like we talked about, you teach people how to treat you. So you say, you know, they have an emergency. Yeah, gotta help me with this, and you say yes. That's teaches them. Oh, I got I got one, I got one on the hook. Yeah, I got somebody who's gonna help me. I got a people pleaser here. So those small decisions that you make just by saying yes the first time, the second time, the third time, they add up, you know, a thousand tiny yeses can build the life that you don't want.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yeah, absolutely they can. Yeah. And I and so and and it's those small ones, I guess, that help us to start to change. So if we I guess if we have trouble saying no to the big things, we could start with the small things and build our way up.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

We can, and those matter too. You know, the same way that you get to the point of always saying yes, you can you can backtrack, you can go back. And and it is it is hard, and I don't discount that. It's it's you know, they say just like confidence, it's like a muscle that you build, right? That you keep do it a little bit at a time. It doesn't have to be this big like movie moment where you know you say this huge thing and everybody like claps for you, you know, like I announce like, hey, I'm not doing this anymore, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

No, it doesn't have to be like it can just teeny tiny yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, your book is called the Yes Test, but I imagine sometimes the framework helps people say no, but how do you see the relationship between a clear yes and a loving no?

SPEAKER_01 27:23

That's a good that's a good a good question. I think a clear, you know, they're both empowering, right? Yeah, they're both owning because a loving no is really is really saying, you know, I love you and I want to help you, but sometimes they need to know. Sometimes you need to know and they need to know. Yeah, right. Yeah, and then owning your yeses and just remembering that every yes adds up. So really think about those choices and and and get off of that that autopilot.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

You could get a little jar. You could say, okay, I'm good. I've got 10 yeses today. Well, no, that's probably too many. I have five yeses today, and each time you say yes, you stick that yes in a jar. Now the now you have no yeses left. It's like, I'm really sorry, but I have no yeses. No yeses left.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

I know you're hungry, but I'm not making dinner tonight.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

That's right, because I'm sure I used them all up already. So you also wrote speak up. So, how does using your voice connect to making better decisions?

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Yeah, that's such a good question. And they do really relate. I really believe that even though using your voice,

Speak Up Even When It’s Messy

SPEAKER_01 28:42

speaking up can be so hard. I mean, for some people, I think that is one of the hardest things you can do when you're in a situation, somebody says something. I was just, I was just on a on a vacation and it was mostly women, but there was a couple of husbands there. And one of the husbands made a sexist joke, and it was so offensive. I mean, he was with a group of women and he still made the sexist joke. And we all just kind of laughed because we didn't, it was so uncomfortable, but also we didn't want to make him uncomfortable.

unknown 29:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

But afterwards, again, I was kicking myself. I was like, I literally wrote the book on speaking up, and I didn't speak up when somebody made the sexist joke. Yeah, you know, that was distasteful for everybody in the room. It wasn't like a borderline or anything. So I know how hard it is, and it's still hard for me, even though I literally wrote the book on speaking up. Speaking up just takes so much bravery, but it really is, you know, the more you do it, the more you force yourself to do it in a way, the better you get at it. And I always try to remember it doesn't have to be perfect. You know, we sometimes we think, oh, I have to say the right thing or the perfect thing, or I have to wait until I'm smarter or more educated on the subject, or whatever it is, until I have more clout. But the thing is, you have the right to speak up and you have the right to advocate for yourself. And that is really where it leads into the yes test is being able to own your voice to say yes to what works for you and no to what doesn't. So they're very intertwined.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Yes, yeah. Well, for women listening who feel stuck, tired, unsure of what they really want. What would you want them to know right now? I know, isn't it stuck?

SPEAKER_01 30:36

I think being stuck is kind of the worst

Getting Unstuck By Making A Decision

SPEAKER_01 30:39

place to be in.

unknown 30:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Kind of limbo, you know, where you can't decide what you should do or where you want to go next. It's so hard sometimes. But again, I think that goes to using your voice and even using the yes test because when you're stuck, it really boils down to you're not making a decision on something that you know you need to, don't you think?

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Yeah you know, you know you need to make a decision, and you're kind of like waffling for one reason or the other.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

And and because you can't make a decision, that keeps you stuck.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

But yeah, it really does. It really keeps you stuck.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

So you're just in that hamster circle.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

And it's the worst feeling. Like I was stuck on something not too long ago, and it was about moving houses, and uh, it was so hard for me to focus on anything else because I was so stuck on that one thing. Even I'd you know, be with friends at dinner, for example, and still in the back of my head, I'd kind of be playing out the scenarios and yeah, trying to unstuck myself, unstick myself. So I think they're really tied together. And even the yes test is it yours, is it essential, is it's sustainable, can even work to help you get unstuck from something, you know, because it's deciding what matters to you and what you want to decide on, what you want to say yes to, what you want to say no to. And really, I think when it boils down to being stuck, it comes down to making a decision.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

Yeah. And as you were talking, I thought, you know, it it's it'll for people even that are that are afraid or you know, confused, by asking that it's going to help them to get to know themselves better. Because sometimes we're just so out of touch that we're just because we're so busy in society and we're just doing, doing, doing all the time. And and and I think to start to do that yes test, I think that's great because I think it'll just start because you'll feel it. You'll get to know a little bit more about yourself, start to trust yourself and your feelings.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Yeah, it really does. Because once you ask yourself, is it yours? You know, is it mine to carry? Is it really my responsibility? Or is it somebody else's responsibility? And I'm saying yes out of guilt. That makes it so much clearer if it's yours to say yes to, then is it essential? Is it essential that I do this? Because so many things are not essential. So many things, you know. I was just talking to a woman who has kids, and she was, you know, they were like in three or four sports and doing music and like violin and who knows who knows all the things. It's like, is that essential? You're burning yourself out. Are all those things really essential? You know, maybe they are. I'm not, I'm not judging whether they are. No, no, of course.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

I understand what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Yeah, but it's up to you to decide. Is that essential for your happiness? Is that essential for their happiness?

unknown 33:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

I know, I know for my kids, sometimes when you know, when they stop playing a certain sports, they're like, Oh, thank goodness I have some time.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Yes. Yes, yes, yeah. Well, what has this work taught you about trusting yourself?

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Oh, I like that question. I think being able to trust yourself in making decisions and saying no or saying yes really helps you to trust yourself. It helps you to believe in yourself. And especially when you start doing it, you know, I've gotten good at it, having written the book on it. I've gotten good at it. Yeah, and it helps you to take back your life. It helps you to live a life that matters to you, that feels right to you, where your time is valuable, your work is valuable, what you say is valuable. And you learn as you choose your yeses, you choose your no's, you choose your decisions, you really learn to trust yourself because you have to in order to make those kind of big choices in life at work and to speak up for yourself. You really have to trust yourself. And it is baby steps, you know. I would never say anybody like go out and make a big declaration or do this huge thing all at once.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

Big sign on my door. Yeah. Before you come in here, think about what you're coming in here for. Yeah. I mean, sometimes that might work, actually.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

It's not a bad idea. Yeah, you can things get drastic sometimes, right? You're like, I'm done with this. Yes. I think speaking of being stuck, I always think the way that you really unstick yourself is when you're just so tired of it. You know, you're like, Yeah, I can't do this anymore, I can't take this anymore, I'm sick of it. I have to make a decision. And then that that kind of helps to force you into that.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

It does, it it does a hundred percent. But but the danger, I think, in getting if if you wait too long, then there's I think there's a danger there because your burnout, all of the, you know, you you just then you have to get your energy level back up.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Yeah, that's a really good point. And yeah, and sometimes that can be years and years and years. Yes, yeah. Five, ten years, you're like, what the heck?

SPEAKER_00 36:19

What's happened? Yeah, well, it's yeah, that's so true. Because I think women, you know, we we we possibly we're working and we're taking care of the family. And if we have a husband, we're taking care of him too, and we're taking care at work, and we're taking care of our friends, and we're doing all of those things, and then the kids leave the house, and all of a sudden, it's like, I don't have those things to do anymore. Now, what am I gonna do? And you start to panic.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Yes, that can we can talk about that. That could be a whole other podcast. That could be a whole other podcast, yes. Like reinventing yourself in your next chapter, and yeah, you know, I think, in my in my opinion, before you get to that stage, before you come to the empty nester stage, start using the yes test, start choosing your be making your decisions and choosing your yeses and choosing your no's because it's harder when you get to that point of empty nesting.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Yes, yes, for sure. Well, what do you hope readers and listeners take away from the yes test?

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Empowerment. I mean, I know we use that word so much, but I just want women to feel like it's okay to say no, and it's okay to it's okay to want something. Yes, you know, how often do you actually say, I want blah blah blah, I want a better career, I want to, I want to make more money, I want to live a happier life, I want to be, I want to be more balanced in my life, I want to work less hours and come home and be able to start baking, or you know, we never say exactly what we want, like starting a sentence with I want. We never do that. No, you're right, and I want women to start doing that and knowing that it's okay and to own it, and then support their yeses and their no's in order to get what they want.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Yeah, yeah, that's just such great advice. So, Paula, where can people find your books and learn more about you? And before you answer, I just want everyone to know that we will have some information in the show notes about uh how to reach out to Paula, Paula. But Paula, why don't you tell us? How do people

Retreats Community And How To Connect

SPEAKER_00 38:46

find you and learn more about your work?

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Of course. Um, they can find me on my website, which is P-A-U-L-A-M-A-T-H-I-A-S dot com. So paulamathias.com. And there I have links to my books. They're all on Amazon, but the links are on my website. I also do a lot of speaking engagements all over the country so you can find out where to see me, where to find me. I do retreats. So if women want to come in like a more intimate setting, I do those as well. So yeah, find me on my website and also on Instagram. I put out cringy videos a lot of times so you can come like watch me dance with my dog or yeah, or walk in slow motion, you know. Yeah. And also on TikTok and LinkedIn. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

So perfect, perfect. Now I have a question about your retreats. So, what what what are you doing on your retreats? What is the purpose of bringing women together on a retreat for you and your business and what you do and how you help?

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yeah, that is what fuels me. I love smaller groups of women, say 10 to 15, or I just want women to get to know each other and build communities and really, I don't know, talk to one another. I think when we talk to each other and find out how similar we are and how so many of us are going through similar struggles and how we can help each other. But just for me, just knowing that other people are going through similar struggles makes me feel better. You know, like I'm not the only one, and there's there's people to talk to out there. So that's what I love to do in my retreats are kind of like workshops where we talk about what matters to you, kind of figuring that out. What is your goal? What matters to you? And not just like a goal, like I want to be promoted, but a goal like I want to focus on my career, but also have time to like let's say you're single, I want to have time to date and find my perfect match, or I want to also have time to spend with my kids, or you know, having that not just a work-life balance, but yeah, balance. Yes, just balance, yeah, you know. So I work with people on finding that balance, and that's part of the yes test. So finding that balance, you can only find that balance if you choose your yeses. If you are saying yes to everything, you can't, you'll you'll never find that balance because you're doing too much stuff. You're doing too much for other people, and your cup is gonna get empty. So that is what my retreats are really about, kind of like workshops.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

So finding your balance and then and do you have information about that on your website as well?

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Yeah, I'm gonna be in I'll be in North Carolina also for a women's event on August 21st.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

So perfect. Yeah, perfect. Well, Paula, thank you so much. This has been a great conversation. I just love that I get to do this because I get to learn so many things. I love your yes test. I'm gonna be using that in my own life.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Thank you. Well, I hope I hope people will go to my website as pre-ordered right now, but it'll be out soon. So yeah, you go check it out. I love it. Perfect. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Thank you. Well, you're welcome. So that's it for this episode, everyone. I appreciate you being here. Don't forget to check out the show notes to get Paula's information and uh snoop around and see whether she's got anything that you that might help you and and help you get unstuck. Oh my goodness, that's so important. Well, thanks again, Paula, for being here and take care, everyone. Until next time. Bye bye.