The Cameo Show
The Cameo Show is a podcast about sharing our life experiences and learning from each other. Through solo stories and inspiring conversations with a wide variety of guests, we explore the secrets and strategies for feeling confident, empowered and equipped to live the life we want to lead. Tune in to learn how to find joy and fulfillment in your life and to gain valuable insights from the amazing stories and lessons of our guests.
The Cameo Show
How to Be More Confident by Redefining Success and Embracing Individuality
This episode takes a reflective journey into building confidence and embracing the freedom that comes with living for oneself without fear of judgment. We uncover the vulnerability and self-doubt we all experience as humans—and how, through practice, we can build resilience and self-assurance. From pushing beyond comfort zones to redefining self-worth without relying on external validation, we explore the joy of authentic self-expression and the strength found in individuality.
We examine how societal pressures can distort our self-perception and encourage a shift toward embracing our unique qualities. With insights from bodybuilding, creative pursuits, and career transitions, this episode highlights the path to confidence rooted in one’s essence rather than accomplishments. Tune in as we foster empowerment, resilience, and a reminder to pursue life with authenticity and fullness.
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Hello and welcome to the Cameo Show. I'm your host, cameo, and I am joined by my husband and co-host, greg.
Speaker 2:Greg Greg Period.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I say Greg Braun. It's weird I'm trying to get, I never call you Greg either.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's weird.
Speaker 1:It's also weird. What do I call you Honey? Do I say honey a lot? Yeah, I do Ew.
Speaker 2:No offense to any honeys out there, but we can also perfect segue for your new nickname, which you love.
Speaker 1:I do love it. It's just kind of funny and I hope it's not offensive. Go ahead, lay it on them go ahead, lay it on them.
Speaker 2:Uh, just over the last, I don't know six months, you've started to feel more like well, I know what it is. Therapy, therapy, seriously. So yeah, that wasn't even what we're going to talk about today, but we surely can. We can just do a quick update on that, but ever since you started going to therapy, you've been ever is it every sense or ever since?
Speaker 2:I need everyone to tell us, because it's, I'm pretty sure it's ever since I just realized I didn't even do a dad joke, we just jumped right in I'm sorry I distracted us with my confusion on how to introduce you.
Speaker 1:Well, let's stay let's with him. Tell him what my nickname is, and then you can land your dad joke.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's see how good I do my dad joke. Okay, okay. So therapy has basically made you a lot more relaxed and, dare I say, softer in your approach to life. I guess there's not a lot of hard edges, because you're you're just more going with the flow of things, you know, and there's not a lot of reactivity, it's more of a here's what we're doing, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You're less triggered.
Speaker 1:I'm not quite as guarded. Guarded, yeah.
Speaker 2:So so what we've noticed, what I?
Speaker 1:didn't say was gourded.
Speaker 2:G yeah, so so what?
Speaker 1:we've noticed what I didn't say was gourded, get it. Go on, yeah, okay. What has happened, though, is you've become more like of what we call a pumpkin, where you're like, but for some reason in my mind, because I think, I gave- myself this nickname Self, yeah, self-lame.
Speaker 1:In my mind, like you know, the house that always smells like baked cookies and the mom that has the apron on and she's like always in the kitchen making something and taking care of everyone else in like the most sweet, non-resentful way. She's a pumpkin, and so I self-named me myself pumpkin because I feel more pumpkin-y, I feel less like resentful, that I'm doing everything for everyone, even though, like, that wasn't always the theme. But, like you, you know little edgy about things sometimes, like I just feel more pumpkin. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's where the gourd joke came in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anyway, speaking of jokes, so if you're the pumpkin, I'm a tater, is it?
Speaker 1:pickle.
Speaker 2:Pickle. A pain in the butt.
Speaker 1:Correct. I apparently you're're honey. I didn't even realize I call you honey.
Speaker 2:No again, no offense to pumpkins or honeys out there, but I do have a good dad joke, but it has nothing to do with pumpkins okay and it's really kind of random okay, let's hear it so why do you have to watch out for some trees?
Speaker 1:For some trees.
Speaker 2:Some trees, not others.
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't know, Because some of them are shady. Oh, that's a pretty good one. I like that one. Sometimes the dad jokes are a little underwhelming if. I'm being honest, not to be hurtful or anything.
Speaker 2:Well, dad jokes are underwhelming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the point right. Well, dad jokes are underwhelming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the point right. Well, that was a good one. Yeah, I like that one. I kind of made that up to just kind of really riffed on yeah.
Speaker 1:I've been thinking a lot about the dad joke I made up on the fly when we had our dentist episode. Yeah, and I don't think I was very convincing that I made that up on the fly. When you asked me like did you just make that up? I was kind of like yeah, but you did. But I did. And I would just like to say for the record that I did make that joke up and I'm very proud of it because I'm not very good at jokes.
Speaker 2:Anyway, today we're talking about confidence.
Speaker 1:Speaking of not being good at things. No, but seriously, we're talking about confidence, because confidence is an extremely important part of how you show up in your day to day and having this conversation quite often about me being more confident when it comes to my voice and my musical ability. Quick story poor Greg. Greg could sit in his studio and never leave and turn out music, minute after minute, song after song, and have so much fun doing it and never get tired of it and like literally lose track of days.
Speaker 2:Days.
Speaker 1:And I feel that way about some things. Music, unfortunately, is not one of them. Typically for me, it's not because I'm not good at it. I don't mean that in a narcissistic way. I know that I have talent in that area, I enjoy doing it, but I just like have to be in the mood and I think it's because I lack confidence in that area, mostly because I'm not super comfortable in my role in that area yet yeah.
Speaker 1:And we've talked about this before when we've discussed music that like, growing up I was a classically trained pianist, I was in performing arts of all kinds, but everything was very like do it right? It was very here's what you're supposed to sing, here's what you're supposed to play. It was very like judged.
Speaker 2:You did it for judgment, I did it for judgment literally like judging, like competitions and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Everything was very precise. There was really not a creative element to it at all, and so I struggle in that area. I think that might be why it's not as enjoyable for me. Not that it's right or wrong or that anything's bad about it, but just in analyzing kind of like, why do I feel this way? Yeah.
Speaker 1:To the point where, like Greg will be like hey, can we work on music tomorrow? And I'll be like I don't know, I don't want to commit to it because it's too stressful to commit to it. I don't want to let him down. But then also, when he brings up, can you sing today? I get all weird and tense and squirmy and I am confident in my ability. I'm just not confident in my space there yet. In my space there yet you know, yeah, and so that's really top of mind right now, because I think that that's probably pretty common and relatable for everyone. Like, we are very confident in things that we feel comfortable with. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So for you, you're very confident when it comes to, like, talking about mortgages or being on the phone with a customer, because you've been doing it for 20 years and, though you may not know all the ins and outs of things, because they change frequently, you do know how to handle that and how to address that conversation and how to help people get what they need when it comes to obtaining a mortgage loan. So you're like, not obtusely, like that sounds arrogant, but like you're very confident in that area and you don't even, like, really think about it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But when it comes to other things like maybe, maybe athletics or maybe, no, not, maybe athletics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or maybe like leaning into this role of, like a leader, a thought leader leader. Like there are a lot of people who look up to you and who you've helped as it pertains to, like, not drinking alcohol or reconnecting with their passion, specifically in music. Like you've inspired a lot of people and you've you're helping a lot of people by just being you and sharing your story. And so in that space, though you you're not as confident because you aren't as used to talking about it. Like you're not as used to to sharing yourself and putting yourself out there, and like I think everybody probably has. That, if you are comfortable and you feel like you are very knowledgeable about something, it's easier to be confident in that area than it is in areas where you just aren't quite as comfortable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's just the social proof. I have the social proof, the of yeah, I think it's just the social proof. I have the social proof of the mortgage thing. You know just from years of doing it and the track record and you know and. But when we're talking about these other things of like inspiring people or, you know, sharing your music, those are things that are less like so personal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's true. Like when it's more personal, it's also more difficult to be confident about it because it feels vulnerable. Oh yeah, with a capital V yeah.
Speaker 2:As we've done things in our lives and you look back at how they've started how they've originated. A lot of the times it's just looking at yourself and thinking I deserve this I deserve to win.
Speaker 2:A lot of the time you just kind of accept. So, for example, like we made a decision to go out on our own in business If you weren't confident in your number one, your abilities but if you weren't confident in yourself and that you deserve to be your own business owner and build your own brand, then you're never going to make that move Cause you're like it's safer. Here I'm told what to say, here I'm told what to do, and that's fine. But for us it was just a very wide open lane. The only thing that changed was us believing in ourselves that we deserve that and that we are confident enough. In that moment we were confident enough to be like well, let's look into it and just see what it would be.
Speaker 1:As you're saying that, like my, wheels are cranking about a couple of different things, because we've talked a lot about belief. We've talked about the importance of self-belief on prior episodes, but also in recognizing people who have instilled belief in you when you didn't have it in your own self.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, oh yes.
Speaker 1:That's a great episode. I don't know what it is, but I'll put it in the show notes when this is over. And I put all of this together because it is a great episode to go back and reference, referring to, like Michael Phelps, I mean that was a.
Speaker 1:I really loved that episode, Can you tell. I'm confident in that episode. But I think those are two different things belief and confidence. I believe in my skills and abilities as a musician. I believe that I have been trained, I've done this my whole life and I believe that my intention is just sharing that, like just doing what I love, and sharing it because it feels natural to me and I love doing it. So I believe in all of that. I lack confidence, not necessarily because of lack of social proof either.
Speaker 1:I lack confidence because maybe I I tie too much self-worth to it then, because of that big capital V vulnerability that if it is judged or it isn't received well, then what will I be worth? What will that say about me? And that impacts my confidence. So I, just as you were saying all that, like I just off the cuff here, I'm thinking like belief and confidence play well together, but I'm just not sure that they are the same thing, Both important. Sometimes I lack confidence in areas because I don't have a lot of experience, a lot of at-bats, but I just keep showing up and then you build confidence. If you didn't have the belief, though, to begin with, you may not ever take the at-bats. So that's where I think they again play well together.
Speaker 2:They're related.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they kind of need each other.
Speaker 2:It's weird, because you have to get up, you have to go, take action, you know, and that's how you build confidence. So I think for me, one of my superpowers that I've just kind of happened to have is the ability to not be afraid to kind of look stupid. Now, when we're talking about music, something again that's my self-worth is tied to, I can't swing that around like that, you know. Like that's it's deeper for me. But like athletic stuff, I can approach differently because I'm, like I already know, I'm not the world's greatest athlete, you know. So I can try kickboxing and jujitsu and, like I already know, I look stupid. I don't think I look sweet, you know. So that's easier to just go into with almost like a childlike wonder and enthusiasm of, like you know, I'm already at zero here. Show me what to do.
Speaker 1:And so are you. Just as it pertains to confidence, do you feel that you're just confident in your ability to, like, handle what that feels like? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, so if you already know like, I don't intend to look sweet here, I know I'm probably going to look dumb because I'm maybe not the best at this, but I'm going to do it anyway yeah, how do you be confident in that moment?
Speaker 2:of doing it anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, because I don't know the stats on this, but most people don't do it anyway, so I just know that just by showing up, I'm doing better than everybody. That's not even here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:So when we would go to kickboxing and do privates, or we go to jujitsu and it's six in the morning and you're rolling in there and there's 10 other badass people that got out of bed to go learn that shit, you're just like, okay, well, we're doing better than the people that are still sleeping right now. Or Michael Phelps when he said he swam around the world three times. I don't remember, it's just an insane amount of miles he's put in. Every time he's in the pool he's building confidence.
Speaker 2:So it's like it's me versus me every day, and that's the kind of attitude of like just showing up is the key.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess. I wonder, though why are you able to do that and build confidence around something that you don't feel extra skilled at, versus like being that confident about your music, for example? I'm not saying that you're not confident about your music, I'm just saying and is it because it's closer to you and is it because it's closer?
Speaker 2:to you. It's the weirdest thing in the world because I can learn things and it's tangible there, like with the kickboxing or whatever you do lifting weights, you feel better, you feel strong, whatever it is. But I'm not like, my self-worth isn't tied to my athleticism, because I've never been, you know. But yes, when it comes to music, it's like this is everything. And when I've decided, you know, to put music out on my own, not be in a band and have five other guys telling me how great we are and we're going to, this was different. This was just me now and you telling me like, hey, this is cool, you can do this. You helped guide that, you know.
Speaker 2:You know, for me, which I appreciate, the genuine like, belief and support in whatever it is I'm doing, even though it's not making money, it's not giving you anything. It was taking away from you, it was taking time from you and the kids, but you could tell it was something that I wanted to do go lock myself in a room and just work on music. You know I had to. It was just like, but you, you supported me, believe me. So, like, that gave me a little bit more confidence of like, okay, and that helped you build belief in yourself yeah, it's hard when it comes to your art that it's personal, whether it's writing or drawing or photography.
Speaker 2:for me it's music to know like, okay, this is a done, I'm done, this song is done and I'm gonna put it out for judgment for I'm going to share it with the world. You know, and then nothing happens. And then you're just like, oh, but there's so much anxiety about that first one, and then you do another one. Nothing happened. You're just like I'm still here, I'm still creating, I'm still learning. Every day I'm showing up, learning new tricks and skills and applying those things. And that's the addiction. For me is just, each time it gets a little bit better. So there's hundreds of these songs that I've started that are just not good, but at the time I learned how to use reverb or I learned how to play this way.
Speaker 1:So the addiction is just the growing and the creativity of it all, see, and I think that's interesting because you're, like, really confident in your creative abilities. Yeah. And established belief along the way. So kind of back to that belief and confidence relationship. Yeah. They were kind of reversed in that way, not that you didn't believe in yourself, but like maybe you didn't believe that it was that you deserved it. So you know that you deserve to give yourself. It was that you deserved it.
Speaker 1:So you know that you deserve to give yourself the time and space to do that, that you deserve to do it on your own and not have to be in a band necessarily like in the way that it was worth something before. Yeah. So you were confident in that and in your creative abilities.
Speaker 1:But maybe your belief was lacking and maybe they pulled each other through and you said, like each time you show up, you, you build, you build confidence and you build resilience, because you're right, you're still there when you put out a song that you've put your heart and soul into and, you know, nobody really pays attention. It's personal, but also it didn't like end you, and I feel like it's tragic. When people choose to be vulnerable, they believe in themselves enough, they have just enough confidence to try something new or to put themselves out there, and then it isn't received well or no one's paying attention, and then that's it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because it is very delicate if it's tied closely to your worth your self-worth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of podcasts don't ever go past what Eight episodes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know what the stat is there, but it's pretty staggering. Yeah. I try not to like think about those things, because sometimes that can inhibit my ability to see things clearly. Just because of people don't show up and continue to do podcasts Doesn't mean that the people that do do them well for, for example, but I just think that there's a flip side to that, and that's that you just constantly get better I feel like that's what I personally am addicted to is just every day, waking up and trying to do something that makes me better in all areas of life.
Speaker 1:Like all the buckets healthy, wealthy, wise, all of them and I don't always hit the mark, but I I show up every day and I need to do a better job of challenging myself to show up better, for example, in the areas that I'm not as confident in, like music, where if I just continue to show up, if I just sit down like I have no problem going in and lifting weights for 10 minutes, 20 minutes, two hours. I could stay in there all day. I know what I'm doing, I know I have great form, I know I put on muscle easily, like I am confident.
Speaker 1:Yeah, borderline arrogant in that area. I'll just be honest, let's just be real.
Speaker 2:I mean you were a professional bodybuilder. You got the swords and the awards, and you know I mean you got all the reasons to be confident in that area.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, music was something that was in that way all the way up to, like, my adulthood and then it kind of went to the wayside because life athletics was more important family, kids, all the things.
Speaker 1:And now stepping back into that world is challenging because I'm not quite as used to it, I'm not as confident in that area.
Speaker 1:So if I would make myself sit and play piano for 10 minutes every day, even if it's just 10 minutes, I would build confidence because I would be practicing and I would be getting better and I just have to push myself past the blinders in the area that I have of like just doing it. Often going for a run, the hardest part of that is putting your shoes on and getting out the front door and like whatever that is for you, whether it's music or athletics, like we're talking about, or next level in your career or starting your own company or writing a book like you just wake up and do the thing. And you do the thing when you don't want to and you do the thing when it's hard and you do it when you aren't confident. And then you know they say fake it till you make it. I mean, I think that there's some validity to that. Like you have to kind of show up as if, oh geez, yeah, you know everything you've done in your life.
Speaker 2:You've had to show up on day one as a new Jack that knows nothing, like just whatever you want to call it, just showing up with a good attitude. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, and I am confident in my ability to do that.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:And so I guess that is the baseline. I believe in myself that if I show up I will adapt baseline Like I believe in myself that if I show up, I will adapt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I have evidence of that Because you've done it and you've told yourself the story that I'm good at this, I can do this because you practiced it. And if you haven't been that type of person your whole life, you're going to naturally shy away from trying new stuff because you're like I don't want to look stupid and to me it's like somehow getting back to that childlike wonder where you're just like freely able to dive into something headfirst and just explore and and try something new because you might like it. Like I haven't tried pickleball and everyone loves pickleball, but like I might love it, you know, but I'm just like I'm not there yet. You know, I haven't, I haven't tried it, but I'm not ready for pickleball, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like it's just one of those things of like, if you decide you want to try it, then knowing that you're okay showing up and looking stupid on your first, you know.
Speaker 1:I also think there's some freedom in the idea that, like, you get to decide, so confidence is built by continuing to show up. But you also get to decide like if it's not something you enjoy, it doesn't have to be forced. So like I don't need to fake being happy or believing in myself or confident about something if it doesn't really feel right, if it's not something that I enjoy. Yeah.
Speaker 1:In my opinion that is probably common. Like there are a lot of people who are extremely confident in their abilities that maybe aren't there. That's judgment, Not on my behalf, just generally saying. But like there are a lot of people who show up and are not confident at all and just really pour on confidence and it's overconfidence and it's like overcompensating and then you never really get the true essence of like being open to learning because you're so confident, Like's it's a it's a balancing act of faking it till you make it.
Speaker 1:Make it but also not being so fake that it's bullshit yeah or doing something that you don't like because you think you're supposed to like pickleball no offense pickleball.
Speaker 2:I probably would love it too, but yeah, well, that's the spirit of the whole conversation is like being confident and not listening to your own bs about why you shouldn't do the thing that you love to do, like if you love to paint or you love to do whatever, and you just you, bake, bake. But you're just like man, you know. You just whatever reasons you talk yourself out to it. So for like the longest time I just turned my back on music because of my ego because, I went hard at music from teenage years to 24.
Speaker 2:And then when hey, the Girl was done, that meant I was done.
Speaker 1:Hey, the Girl was the band that Greg was in that had a record deal and played arena tours and it just kind of came to a screeching halt. It was so tied to your self-worth as a drummer.
Speaker 2:Up to that point was just the climb.
Speaker 1:When it was done, you were done.
Speaker 2:I was done.
Speaker 1:And did that kill your confidence and your belief in yourself, or did it just take away your enthusiasm?
Speaker 2:well, I'll tell you exactly what it did is. I took all of that vim and vigor and energy that I put into being a rock star and I put it in sales, and I put it in myself and like developing myself as a salesperson yeah because I was like I couldn't do that.
Speaker 2:So now I'm going to do this, and I'm not going to do this like everybody else. I'm going to do this because I have some sort of weirdo superiority complex or some sort of need to like win. You know, I guess I don't know what you want to call it, but like I just wanted to be kick ass at whatever I was doing. So I couldn't kick ass anymore at music because I was broke and done with it. You know, like it was just like what am I? You know?
Speaker 2:yeah so I'm now, I'm gonna kick ass at this and that's what I loved about it transferred your confidence. Complete transfer of energy, yeah and I remember like I just felt different than everybody else, like when I got my first real mortgage sales job in a call center, I was like I'm, I'm here, I'm here to kick ass people.
Speaker 2:I'm not here to make friends and go to lunch and play golden tea. And I felt weird because I'm like I don't feel like chilling, like that, like, yeah, I'm here to conquer the world. You know, and that was just from day one, that was just my. That's a fake. It till you make it, because I had never had success in any business before that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was a poor musician that was trying to sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but no, it's important to add that yeah, I agree, I was just gonna say like we're talking about confidence as it pertains to doing things, but but I also think that that confidence that you transferred was really just confidence in yourself as a person and, like you know, as a female, and males too. So I don't mean to stereotype, but like but I'm going to anyway, but.
Speaker 1:I'm going to anyway, but I think that you and everybody else would you know, agree with this generalization. As a female, a lot of what society tells us our worth is is based on, like, how we look or our bodies right, because everything tends to be over sexualized. And we've been told, I've been told since I can remember, and then my mom, probably since she could remember, and my grandma, since she could remember, what a woman's supposed to look like at whatever given time on the timeline, and that has changed as well, and so we we tie a lot of our confidence to whether or not we fit the mold of what, like a woman, is supposed to look like yeah and that impacts our confidence overall.
Speaker 1:based on yeah, then I probably can't show up and do other things either, and it's a really vicious cycle.
Speaker 1:So it's not just about doing things.
Speaker 1:It's also about being confident in who we are and what we bring to the table with regard to our own unique talents, our own unique perspective, our own unique human essence.
Speaker 1:I bring that up because I don't think there's enough focus on that. I think there's a lot of focus on what you're supposed to do and what is the most optimal version of the general pop, instead of like what's the most optimized version of me, and not to confuse the situation with like guidelines and things that you can do to optimize your life. Like you know, getting so many steps a day, or eating a diet, a nutrition plan of this, that or the other you know, those are things that scientifically optimize your life. I'm not really like arguing or contesting that or making that a comparison conversation, but just more of like not doing things because you're supposed to or because you feel like you should, or driven by like shame and insecurity, but like confidently owning who you are. And if we encouraged people from the jump to do that, people would probably more confidently pursue the things that they want to do too, because it starts inside not just with belief in yourself or your abilities, but also just how you feel about yourself.
Speaker 1:Yes. And your self-worth period. Not your self-worth compared to not your self-worth because of your self-worth period. That just gave me goosebumps. I'm not trying to stroke my own ego here, but like no, you feel what you're saying I do. It makes me emotional because, like I think about our kids for example, and it just that's right I don't think about myself that way, because you don't necessarily always think about yourself that way. You do what you have to do when it's you to survive, to channel, to try to get back up again.
Speaker 1:But like you start, I started thinking about our kids and I just melt because I'm like what messages has society sent to our kids? What messages have I inadvertently sent to our kids about their own self-worth based on the stories that were told or based on the expectations that were given?
Speaker 2:you know if they get good grades or if they're the star of the team or they're the lead in the play. You know, like it's such a personal perspective. So, like you know, there's not like a one size fits all, but whatever that is deep inside of you, that's having the confidence to, to see that eye to eye and explore that. That's what the confidence to, to see that eye to eye and explore that, that's what. That's what we're kind of talking about. Like we just lost power for four days and we didn't have our phones and electricity and it was a lot of downtime and it was like we were in the 90s again. I kept joking about that and saying it was like I feel like get out a magazine, yeah, read a book, I mean. Like it's just like there's so much downtime watching the birds. You just that just like reminded you like when you were young you didn't know what anyone else was doing because there was no social media. You were doing what you wanted to do yeah and like, for example, you.
Speaker 2:you would set up a camera and act like you were Oprah Winfrey, you know, and was doing exactly this.
Speaker 1:This.
Speaker 2:Right, you had your own TV show Ten years ago. Life wasn't available for you to do something like this, and now you find yourself in a spot where you can dedicate yourself to this and have your own podcast.
Speaker 1:The Cameo.
Speaker 2:Show, you know, and it's like this didn't just start last year, this has been your whole life.
Speaker 1:This is the essence of who I am.
Speaker 2:This is the essence of who you are. Turn on the camera, talk, and it's now cool because there's people that can hear your words.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, versus recorded on a VHS tape that goes in the closet, that we can get out someday and listen to and laugh at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right and listen to and laugh at you know, yeah, right, and for me it was playing drums in my parents' house when I was barely able to talk, you know, and that's what I love is kind of reopening that little kid that lives inside of you, and the only way to really connect with that is give yourself the space to do it. Yeah, you've got to give yourself the space to give your voice space to, to give your your voice a chance to to speak. Otherwise it's drownded out by what everyone else expects of you and what you need to do and the shoulds and all the stuff. Giving yourself time to, like, ask yourself the vulnerable questions is like is this right for me? Am I doing? What am I truly for me? Music I could have easily just went and got joined another band of four other guys that told me what I wanted to hear and we're so cool, you know like but I wanted to do something different. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was like, god damn it. I got to, I can do all this myself. I'm waiting for someone to call me and be a drummer for them, and it's like I don't need to do that. I can do this all myself.
Speaker 1:Well, what was that moment for you, though, where you switched from being like not confident about that as it pertains to confidence, because you weren't confident when you first started doing it on your own, like, go in and be willing to look stupid and mess up and do things wrong and make not great stuff and ask for help, you know?
Speaker 2:Well, sadly I missed a lot of time because it all goes back to in introspect and played with. You know myopia guys, and but it was never like, I never gave myself the allowed myself to like be all into it and like really be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you never lost confidence in your ability.
Speaker 2:I lost confidence in me doing anything substantial with it, though. I never, lost confidence in like oh, you're playing at Benny's Pizza, I'll come, you know. Okay, that was nothing for me to do that.
Speaker 1:And so when you started like recording music on your own four years ago, covid, what was that confidence channeled to then? Because you never lost confidence in your ability, you lost confidence in that it could be something big or worthwhile. So was it that you let go of this idea of it being tied to your worth? So you were like confident in your ability, but then confident in the fact that it's just who you are and what you love to do, and it doesn't need to be anything to make it worthwhile.
Speaker 2:That has only come recently.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:To be perfectly honest, what happened is COVID, and right before COVID my cousin passed away, okay, and he told me I was his favorite drummer, and then I never talked to him again. It was embarrassing, because I wasn't at that time really I don't even think I had my drums set up and it was just like.
Speaker 1:Guitars were under the bed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's just like it was part of my past story and then I was like, oh shit, life's fragile, you know. And then it was just like, what am I? What the hell am I doing? I mean, I don't, I don't need to, I don't need anyone's approval to do this and that's confident and that once that kind of switched for me of like I feel like we're just always waiting for someone to tell us we can do something. You know, we're just programmed to be under the thumb of something.
Speaker 2:That's the mold, you know. And so when I first started putting out music and making music on my own, I was jaded as hell and pissed off when people wouldn't tell me like hey, good job.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's embarrassing to say that, it's embarrassing to admit that.
Speaker 1:I think that's really relatable too, but it's embarrassing to say that, it's embarrassing to admit that I think that's really relatable too, but it's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was so butthurt about that Like people closest to me would just act like nothing's happening and it's no one's fault. It's my fault to expect anyone to be like oh my. God, that's amazing. Like, oh my god, that's amazing. But what it was was me sitting in my bedroom for hours.
Speaker 2:You know working on this music laboring, thinking like, oh god, when everyone hears this, this is going to be something, and you put it out and it's like, and your best friends and you know, and like old band mates, no, and I'm like, oh God, son of a bitch. Only recently have I really come to terms with. That's not a thing about me, that's just where they're at, if they even know I'm doing it. I do such a horrible job of marketing myself in that way Because I don't want to overwhelm people and be like, oh, he's talking about music again. You know it's totally wrong, but I'm just admitting he does not give me that benefit.
Speaker 1:I get the talking about music all the time. I'm on the receiving end of that.
Speaker 2:I talk about it all the time, don't I?
Speaker 1:To me yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but on social media you put me like what's this guy do?
Speaker 1:yeah, and I'm just kidding, I'm just teasing you about that. Like I was just saying, you don't offer, you don't extend that to me, like I don't want to overwhelm oh I was just being a shit, I'm just kidding but, but it's true.
Speaker 2:Now I don't expect anyone to say anything and in fact I commonly have been putting out songs recently on the day of release and I don't even say I'm horrible. But I don't even say anything on my social media because life for that, Like it is.
Speaker 1:I got to talk about it and be like, hey, I know, but at the end of the day, if no one knew, you would still do it, still, do it, still do it. And well one. I just would like to go back to how we started this first episode, when we were talking about me being a pumpkin and talked about therapy and how that's helped me, because that's why, as of recently, you are able to see it that way yeah because you've done some work and therapy has been instrumental in that, having someone guide you through that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my self-worth is not tied to the result of how many streams my song gets. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right. And so back to confidence. You're confident in your ability as a musician, you're confident in your creativity and you lost confidence in what music could be in your life because of a failed endeavor, call it that, and you were just jaded and done. And then, when you realize, like this doesn't have to be tied to any external anything, your confidence and your ability to just go in there and just do, yeah, went through the roof. Yeah, it doesn't mean you're not insecure about, like, being judged. Everybody's insecure about being judged. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Period, Whether you love what you're doing or not. Like you're insecure about being judged, probably especially if you love what you're doing, because that hurts more. Right.
Speaker 1:But you're confident enough to do it and I guess just starting and continuing to show up and remembering to not tie it to your worth whether it's your body image, whether it's what you're producing, whether it's your job, like completely disconnecting yourself from that, that confidence is again just back to like inside period. End of story you mentioned about like bodybuilding. We have every right to be confident about that. Ironically, when I was bodybuilding, I was so insecure and had no confidence about my athletic ability and my physique because I found ways to not be confident about it, because now I'm too muscly and now I'm too masculine and now I'm all these things and now I'm not as good as the girl next to me. And when I was winning I was miserable. And when I did my last show and I didn't place well at all, I was the happiest because I had removed it from what it meant about me or what it meant for me and did it because I genuinely love doing it, loved the challenge, loved the ability.
Speaker 1:I was confident in myself and my ability to do so, and that wasn't tied to any trophy or external opinion at all. If I could just take my own damn advice as it pertains to like music, which is where I feel this is all stemmed from. It's like just get your ass in there and do it and stop worrying about it being externally anything. Also, what I would do is set up the video camera and sing and dance and perform for myself. That's also the essence of who I am and I just for some reason, because I tie it, it's so close to me. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I tie it externally to judgment and that's been conditioned in my head. I'm like I don't want to do it. It's like pulling teeth to get me in there to sing.
Speaker 2:It's. I've got a sign that I've got hanging in there in my studio that says create more, think less, sign that I've got hanging in there in my studio that says create more, think less. And I look at that a lot way more than I thought I would. Yeah, because I go in there, even after years of doing this and you know, even working with, you know Grammy and platinum artists and you know, working with real producers and like really good musicians, like I've got enough evidence, like I'm, I can do this. You know this is fun, but I still just beat myself up big time Like, well, this is never going to. You know, just, it's amazing where your thoughts can take you.
Speaker 1:you know, to protect you, to try to keep you safe, you know. Yeah, like that's what I was saying about everybody's insecure, especially about what you love the most, because it's too close yeah and confidence and insecurity again are like confidence and belief, they go together but they aren't the same thing. Or or the exact opposite thing, like confidence and insecurity are not the exact opposite yeah maybe they are by definition. I I'm just full of shit here. This is not, you know, like educational advice. By any means, they may be exactly that antonyms. Whoops.
Speaker 1:Whoops.
Speaker 2:Whoopsie. Whoopsie-daisy.
Speaker 1:But you know, they don't necessarily. They play together in my mind. Yeah. And you can be confident about doing something and still insecure about the result of it If you tie it to an external source of judgment and worthiness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just feel like everyone deserves to be, to feel happy and fulfilled and feel like they're working on the thing that really inspires them and they have purpose in their life.
Speaker 2:And I feel like you have to really cut through the noise and the bullshit in your head to really land on that golden space.
Speaker 2:Otherwise you're people pleasing and you're you know you've got all these reasons why you can't or you shouldn't and it's like really give yourself that grace that you deserve. Life's short and you deserve if golf is your thing or if art is your thing and you've just turned your back on it because now you're a dad or a mom or you've got a career and you've got life. You know you'll be much more fulfilled and happy if you create a little space in that in your life to to, to water that garden and and again, I'm not saying anything that I don't actively it's changed my life completely to welcome music back into my life and not be jaded about music. I know way too many musicians that are very good musicians, that know how to play, and they're not fully in it and I know that they would be very happy to be in it, in it and I know that they would be very happy to be in it.
Speaker 1:That is not a lack of confidence in their ability. It's an insecurity about an external judgment. Yeah.
Speaker 1:As you're saying that, I can't help but think that it's kind of a chicken or the egg idea, because you're saying, like, lean into the space to connect with what it is that you love doing, that brings you happiness, that helps you build your confidence, showing up, trying new things, resilience, all of that, external sources of worthiness, by removing external judgment and shoulds and shame and what you're supposed to look like or what you're supposed to feel Like. All of those things have to go, but which one comes first? Because you probably need to feel whole inside to be able to take action on doing some of those things. But doing some of those things may help make you feel whole and I'm not sure which one comes first, but I do know that they are cyclical and I will 100% reiterate what you said that, like welcoming music back into your life in a different way, has impacted you immensely across the board and how you show up in the rest of your life, and not just as it pertains to confidence, but definitely as it pertains to confidence, you know so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a really good book called the Artist's Way just had its 30 year anniversary. It's tailored more towards writers, but I got a lot out of it as a musician. But it's basically a good guide to unlocking your creativity. And one of the exercises that they talk about in that book is morning pages. So waking up every day and just writing pen and paper and just writing Well, well, what do I write about? Just whatever comes your mind. Good morning, I'm writing this, I'm getting my coffee, whatever.
Speaker 1:And then you just start flow and you get into a flow and I thought I forget what that form of writing is called, but it's literally like I remember taking a writing class in college and you literally write down every word that you think yeah, just it's not not for anyone else, no one's going to see it.
Speaker 2:You can shred it up when you're done. Yeah, but I just thought that was powerful because again, I know some creative people are like I don't know what I would write about. I know I'm a good writer and it's like just write, just write, just go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's not necessarily just about being creative either, like it's not just about an art, it's about getting to know yourself. We're all artists.
Speaker 1:Love is a form of art. Do you know what I mean? Like self-love is a form of creativity. So even those types of exercises if you're an artist or a musician or not like reading that book and being able to take something like that out of it, implement it and insert it in your life in the way that makes sense, like just waking up and writing down how you're, what you're thinking, word for word, might reveal some thoughts, and those thoughts and feelings Well, I mean, obviously they're all thoughts, cause that's what I just said, you write down what you're thinking word for word but might reveal some feelings that help you understand yourself better.
Speaker 1:Organize your thoughts better, right, and that might not have anything to do with then putting paint on a canvas or, you know, music through a microphone, but it will help you find ways to connect with yourself.
Speaker 2:That then there's that cycle again Yep with yourself that then there's that cycle again, yep, and that's addicting because just the big picture, the macro of all of this, is becoming the type of person that you know through your own social evidence and proof that you've lived your life, that you're a doer and you're not just going to talk about stuff but you're going to do stuff. And then that becomes the new confidence builder, because you know, like I'm the, I'm the kind of guy that's going to do this thing. You know, and you and you start telling yourself that story. But that story doesn't just appear.
Speaker 2:You have to prove to your deep subconscious that you are that guy that's going to do the thing the narrative change you know, because if you're the guy who quits when it's hard, you're the guy who quits when it's hard yeah, and if you keep telling yourself that story? You're gonna keep doing it right.
Speaker 1:So I feel like it was a little all over the place, but the underlying theme has been being confident in yourself, not just your abilities, but in your true self, in the essence of who you are, and and the importance of it. It's so important.
Speaker 2:It's so important Part of getting physically in shape, like emotionally in shape, you've got to develop confidence.
Speaker 1:Exercise it like a muscle.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's woven, it's like the red thread with all of the other players, belief, action. You know, consistency, like all of those things start coming into play, they all feed off of each other and acceptance, self-acceptance. Yep.
Speaker 1:If you are struggling with connecting with yourself or feeling confident about taking a step towards something that you love or that you want to do because you have been conditioned to believe that it's not worth your time or you're not worth it or you don't fit the mold, or that it doesn't fit into your life, I implore you that's a strong word, but I encourage you to explore that a little bit and give yourself the space to really understand what that looks like for you, so that you can develop enough confidence and belief in yourself to take action and live a fulfilling life.
Speaker 2:Because you are one decision away from a totally different life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's 100% true, and whether that's belief or confidence or someone else's encouragement that gets that started, it all initiates action and you're worth it and no one's going to do it for you.
Speaker 1:So you have to really, from experience and ongoing experience I'm still in it, you're still in it Like you have to really tune into that and give yourself what you deserve and exploring it and understanding yourself. I bow to show up more consistently as it pertains to utilizing my musical instruments, because music is part of who I am. It is something that I love. I am confident in my abilities. I am. It is something that I love. I am confident in my abilities. I'm just not confident in what I have associated the judgment of music with. I need to work on that. That's an area where I am deficient, and awareness is all part of that. So I vow to make that a focus for myself because it makes me feel alive and it also sets an example, as we were talking about for our kids in being willing to do that and that's important to me and it will inspire others.
Speaker 2:And how are you going to do that?
Speaker 1:Well, you're kind of putting me on the spot.
Speaker 2:I know let's see if you've paid attention to this week's episode.
Speaker 1:Well, I think what I need to do is just start, just show up, just take action. And be willing to let go of any association externally that I have tied to music.
Speaker 2:Like Rick Rubin says, let go of the result. Yeah, just do the thing.
Speaker 1:And just allow myself to enjoy and feel what that does for me internally. Yeah. And for no other reason, do the thing.
Speaker 2:Because it makes you happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I enjoy doing it.
Speaker 2:And you learn new songs and you feel more confident.
Speaker 1:I just get all squirmy because I get all. I feel a ton of pressure and I don't even like. It's not necessarily pressure from you, it's just conditioned, it's just pressure, that's associated with it, right so.
Speaker 2:I did music differently. I played in bands in the back room of my parents' house. People came over, we jammed, they left, and there was never anybody that came in with a pen and paper judging my form or my. Did you hit that note properly? Oh, you were flat. You hit that note properly, you were flat, none of that.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean just I'm that's funny, this, but like no, it's true, but it's true, that's.
Speaker 2:That was your experience with music, and mine was the other other. It was just jamming yeah which was why it was weird like being in bands and like learn these songs exactly what you're like, whoa yeah, this is different it feels different, you know so openness and the belief and the confidence to just start.
Speaker 1:Start somewhere, start again, start tomorrow, start today, start right now, not tomorrow. Don't listen to me.
Speaker 2:Listen to yourself.
Speaker 1:Seriously. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I again will go back and find that episode about belief. I think it's a great episode to listen to and link that in the show notes. There are plenty of other episodes like this one that you about belief. I think it's a great episode to listen to and link that in the show notes. There are plenty of other episodes like this one that you can explore If you go to my website. Cameo Elise brawncom.
Speaker 1:Um, we talk a lot about this. We don't do it perfectly, which is exactly why we talk about it a lot, because I don't think anyone does. You just do what you know until you know better. You keep showing up and then you do better, so you can check some of those out. You can also check out I'm going to plug Greg here, because he would never do it himself. You can also check out some of Greg's music his own individual music, but also some of his collaborative efforts If you go to at G5000music on Instagram or his website G5000musiccom, as well as our joint venture. See, now I'm putting myself out there. This is vulnerable. We have a band.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's called Waiting for.
Speaker 1:Elise, I'm the singer. Oh, it makes me squirm.
Speaker 2:You sing and play piano, I play drums.
Speaker 1:We do our thing, and it's fine until I get all squirmy, but it's at Waiting for Elise on Instagram. And it's fine until I get all squirmy, but it's at waiting for Elise on Instagram. You can check out some of our music on Spotify if you're inclined to do so. Honestly, that's not what this is about, but it just felt right to share because we're we've been talking about it so much, but I'm in the same vein as sharing, like.
Speaker 1:If this episode resonated with you, please share it with somebody else that you feel would benefit from really thinking deeply about how their belief in themselves, how their own self-worth, how their confidence and the ability to grow their confidence would help them, because part of the human experience, it's part of the essence of who we are to help other people feel. Seen, you're not alone, I'm not alone. Like this conversation, we are not alone. I would almost guarantee that everyone listening feels this way about something in their life and you at the end. But I'll wrap it up and we appreciate you being here. So thanks for joining us on the Cameo Show. There are new episodes every Wednesday and we hope you'll come back. Peace.
