The Cameo Show
The Cameo Show is a podcast about sharing our life experiences and learning from each other. Through solo stories and inspiring conversations with a wide variety of guests, we explore the secrets and strategies for feeling confident, empowered and equipped to live the life we want to lead. Tune in to learn how to find joy and fulfillment in your life and to gain valuable insights from the amazing stories and lessons of our guests.
The Cameo Show
Navigating Sobriety: Parenting, Anxiety & Mental Health Conversations with Daniel Patterson
Ever questioned whether alcohol is truly enhancing your life—or just holding you back? Daniel Patterson, an educator turned entrepreneur, confronted this dilemma head-on after a pivotal moment on New Year's Day 2015. Now, with a decade of sobriety behind him, Daniel merges his personal journey with his professional expertise to offer insights into mental health, navigating social dynamics without alcohol, and prioritizing self-care without guilt.
As the founder of Patterson Perspective Inc., Daniel's work has provided strategic solutions for schools, organizations, teenagers, young adults, and parents, focusing on mental health awareness and substance use prevention. He also founded Known at Home, offering reliable at-home drug tests and resources to foster trust and transparency within families.
This episode is for the overwhelmed parent, the high achiever, or anyone questioning if alcohol is hindering their potential. If you've ever asked yourself, Could my life be better without alcohol?, this conversation provides candid, judgment-free insights from someone who's been there—both personally and professionally.
We cover:
- The unexpected catalyst for Daniel's sobriety journey and why it resonated
- The impact of quitting alcohol on personal relationships and social engagements
- The intricate link between anxiety, alcohol use, and mental health
- Effective strategies for discussing substance use and mental health with your children
- Establishing boundaries and safeguarding your well-being during recovery
- How Daniel's educational background informs his approach to substance use prevention
- The empowering act of sharing your story to live authentically, not to judge others
Whether you're sober-curious, reevaluating your relationship with alcohol, or aiming to enhance your mental well-being, this episode offers valuable perspectives. Tune in and join the conversation.
More Daniel - https://www.instagram.com/pattersonperspective
Known at Home - https://www.instagram.com/knownathome/
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Hello and welcome to the Cameo Show. I'm your host, Cameo. Today on the Cameo Show, we're chatting with Daniel Patterson. On social media he's at Patterson Perspective and we're talking about his 10 years of sobriety, From breaking destructive patterns to finding freedom and authenticity. His story is packed with inspiration and practical wisdom for anyone ready to make a change. Daniel is an author, a speaker, a former educator, who uses his platform to share the raw and real truths of recovery and the importance of mental health. Through sharing his journey, he's inspiring others to embrace authenticity, overcome addiction and live with purpose. His impactful work has been featured in major media outlets like the LA Times, NBC, ABC, Fox News and the Huffington Post, to name a few, and today he's sharing his powerful journey and lessons he's learned along the way with us. So, Daniel, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. That was a tall introduction. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:That's all you, buddy.
Speaker 2:I mean, you made it easy on me, good Lord we're honored to have you. We connected all you, buddy I mean you made it easy on me, Good Lord.
Speaker 1:We're honored to have you. We connected through Instagram just recently. I've been following you for a while, along with tens of thousands of other people who feel very connected to your content, because you're real and you share, kind of what you were thinking and what you've been going through and what you've experienced and how it's helped you in an effort to help others, and I just think it's so beautiful, because not everyone feels brave enough to do that around this topic specifically. So thank you for doing that and thank you for connecting with us, and I just want to dive right in. So before we do so, I better introduce my husband and co-host, mr Greg Braun. Sorry, greg.
Speaker 3:Little old me. No, no, I just. I always like to start off with a dad joke and I've got a good one for today. And, daniel, do you know what state is the most well-known state for its tiny drinks? No, minnesota.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 3:Now that we've kicked things off with a few laughs.
Speaker 1:Thank you, greg, that's actually a really good one.
Speaker 2:That is a good one.
Speaker 1:Sometimes the dad jokes leave me like okay, like a dad joke should, but um, let's dive right in. Let's start with your journey 10 years ago. Tell us how it started. Was it something that you made the decision like, a conscious decision like tomorrow I'm going to stop drinking.
Speaker 2:No, no, it was not that sexy or pre-planned, it was an accident. So I had been in my head drinking was a chore. It was in the chore phase of using where I was super anxious about it. Before I did it, I was always doing drunk math Like how many drinks can I have if I'm with these people? How many drinks can I have before, how many drinks can I have at dinner, so that it doesn't look like I have a problem. You know, just like a shell game of vodka and Chardonnay, just like, just like mixing it, trying to spin it. So the times when, like I think, my wife thought I was definitely going to quit, or I promised I was going to quit, I never did.
Speaker 2:And then New Year's Eve, I guess, 2014, we went out to dinner. My wife we had a three-year-old daughter at the time had some wine at dinner and then went home and then went home and then just drank a ton of Woodbridge Chardonnay Very classy here and the big bottles they're very user-friendly. So we woke up the next day and my wife was very good at being like passive, aggressive in a good way. So we had an early breakfast like 8 am the next day, right, new.
Speaker 2:Year's Day we weren't doing anything on New Year's Day, 2015. So we go to this Norm's Diner it's really like kind of old school, very like steamy, clinky, clanky kind of small thing and I start, I'm there and I feel like buddy the elf. Everything is like really closing in on me and I start having auditory hallucinations, which is wild.
Speaker 2:So I got to my car, we're with another family, so I'm like completely embarrassed, right, my wife's mortified and I'm having these hallucinations and that shook me to my core, right, because normally I like my anxiety, I'll talk to myself like it's that voice, right, but this was a different voice and I was like, okay, uh, so I went to the doctor and anyways, they were like you got to pump the brakes, right, because we have to figure out, like what, what's happening here. So that's how I started a dry January. But it was not like the other times where I had said, okay, uh, starting Monday, I'm gonna quit, right, like I would always do this thing, like set this future ambiguous date and then make excuses why it wouldn't work. Oh, it's Labor Day, I can't do that. You know like what holidays coming up that I can like attach my drinking to. So I started a dry January, but not like it is today. Right, it just happened to be January and I haven't had a drink or drug since.
Speaker 1:January 2015. So just over 10 years, I shared with you, before we started recording, that Greg is also in his 10th year and I'm approaching mine of alcohol-free living. And I'm not surprised to hear you say I didn't necessarily plan it, because neither of us did either. It just kind of happened. Drinking up to that point was just something that we had always done Right, attached it to whatever holiday or whatever celebration or whatever non-celebration like our football team lost.
Speaker 3:You know I'm upset, or?
Speaker 1:I had a rough day at work, I need to drink. So Greg decided to stop drinking and I kind of lagged'm. I had a rough day at work, I need to drink, so Greg decided to stop drinking and I kind of lagged behind because I had other reasons, like attachment with my job and different things that I was doing that felt too foreign for me to stop drinking. But I feel like that's a common thing that you hear often is that people weren't necessarily planning to like I don't even know my actual date, so I can't. I say I'm approaching 10 years because I don't know what the day was.
Speaker 2:I don't, I remember that, what happened, but I don't remember the day and I think part of the reason I remember the day so specifically is because of the day it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:And I just remember watching, uh, you know that month and into February, watching, uh, college football playoffs and and NFL playoffs, and just being like questioning all of my life decisions, like what? Like I remember Googling the Super Bowl halftime. I'm like is Katy Perry sober because she performed at the halftime show? Is Tom Brady sober? You know, just like trying to figure out like this new landscape of of the world.
Speaker 1:And it was, it was horrifying yeah well, and 10 years ago it wasn't as widely talked about. Social media was kind of still a platform that we just posted pictures on and shared like what our family's doing, so there wasn't a lot of emphasis to your point on like dry January or no, it wasn't a thing really. Yeah right, I remember it wasn't even like an option to drink non-alcoholic drinks, because it was O'Doul's.
Speaker 2:That was your choice.
Speaker 1:You know, like there weren't fun bubbly waters, there weren't curious elixirs. There weren't these different bubbly waters. There weren't curious elixirs, there weren't these different beverages that you could drink. Not that that's necessarily a way that people transition, but it was just a completely different time, and so your situation was unique in that you started experiencing some health situations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I mean all of the other health situations that I had experienced while drinking never got my attention, but I think because this one was. I mean, I knew I had horrible anxiety when I was hungover. I knew the repercussions. I just didn't care. Like you know, like when you're hungover you're so hungover and you're just making all sorts of promises to God and everyone, and then at like 4 PM. You've turned a corner and you're like I'm back, baby, Like it's problem solved, I can, I can drink again Like we're good.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, all too familiar for sure. I used to call that my Sunday sorries where I would get my phone out and text everyone that I probably offended the night before. Yeah, the apology tour everyone that I probably offended the night before. Yeah, the apology tour. Any day of the week, for that matter, the apology tour, yes. So when you first stopped drinking, you said, like familiar for us as well, like Superbowl. You start Googling and questioning things, getting a little bit more curious about what does this actually look like? Were you scared?
Speaker 2:look like Were you scared. Yeah, yeah, I was because. I had never had any experiences as an adult without alcohol like zero, I mean. So there was no everything that first year was new.
Speaker 3:Yes, Everything was new.
Speaker 2:It's like, oh, like, what is? Like, what are you supposed to do on St Patrick's day? Or like, what do you do on Sundays when you just feel so anxious about work, Like what you mean to tell me we're just supposed to sit here, you know, like I'm just supposed to. And then also like my relationship and this is so dumb, but like my relationship with football, because drinking and football were just it was just Saturday, drinking this college NFL Sunday, and then I just remember looking at the TV and being like what am I like, really like I'm supposed to just sit here and watch that dude?
Speaker 3:same, same same exactly it was like religion. Uh, saturday it started like thursday night it was a great excuse to drink. Thursday night game, friday night, saturday, and and it just. And then now you notice like, oh my god, these games last forever they're so long and they're just nothing but beer commercials and went uh pizza commercials. And you're just like I just feel compelled to drink by watching this, just because you keep showing me these sexy people drinking and tailgating right you know, and it's like I gotta go do something.
Speaker 3:You know. So my love for football. Even though I still respect the everything, I don't watch it like I used to. 10 years later, it's like a different thing for now you know it's a time it's just like shit it is time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like it took me a really long time to watch football again. And now I watch a lot of nfl because my kids like to watch it or whatever, but I really don't watch college football. Um, I'm not super hungover. I don't need to just lay on the couch and do something. I can, like, go out and do something. Yeah, um, although I don't.
Speaker 2:You know, one of the issues I have with like the whole sober content creator algorithm thing is all of the glorious like montages of people, just you know, doing yoga and going for hikes and doing like right away, because I think it makes people feel like they're doing it wrong in the beginning, because in the beginning you just if this is my philosophy you just have to get scrappy Right. So, whatever it takes to not drink or use, do it Whatever that looks like for you. So if you're not running 5K, who cares? Go walk for 20 minutes, it's the same. And so I think the comparison trap of social media makes it you're like I was bad at drinking and now I'm bad at recovery, like what the hell? I am not good at either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. I agree with you wholeheartedly there. The early days are really difficult because you start questioning to your point everything about your identity. Who am I going to show up as at this work outing? Who am I going to show up as when I've had a rough day? And I need to be super mom without that crutch, these toxic coping strategies that we use, and alcohol for me was my choice, my number one cheerleader there for me anytime. And so you change, the people that you're around, the places that you go, the things that you do, but not tomorrow. Tomorrow, in the early stages, is like I'm just trying to get through today and I'll be not drinking today, and then I'll probably make the same choice tomorrow, but I'm not like outrunning a marathon to your point, like I haven't quite transitioned there yet.
Speaker 2:And so social media I guess you're right perpetuates this idea that you stop drinking, and then, all of a sudden, there's this blissful transition into all of these great activities and it's like yeah it takes time and and I, even today, just posted a video of a montage of the things that I do now, right, sure, but I did a voiceover and I talk about, like the, the experience of it, but this is 10 years later. This is not what you should expect tomorrow. Later, this is not, right what you should expect tomorrow. Um, yeah, so that first year was just all of these first, first, first, and, and then even like, what do I do?
Speaker 3:with my hands like at a party like what do I?
Speaker 2:how do I talk to people?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, you know that's like all the social skills like for I was like a little child, like people, like what's up I'm like good you know yeah you're so right, yeah, I remember, greg, you would talk about like going to a happy hour for the first time and sweating and being like I I just didn't know how to behave like I wasn't sweating because I was having withdrawal. I was sweating because I had social anxiety so thick that I didn't know how to show up in that situation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like two weeks after hard stop had a. You know I'm a loan officer for a bank and meeting with my whole team and in the past it was by drinks and shots and I looked at myself as the ringleader of that, you know, as a good and making sure everyone's nice, and buzzed at 630. We got to get get rocked, you know and it was like water and I'm like, yeah, you know, it was just so intense.
Speaker 3:I'm like, wow, this is crazy because you're like you said it's the first. I mean I started drinking probably around 16 and, you know, just never experienced what it was like to be a grown-ass man without a drink. Yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 1:That's a great segue. I know that a lot of your focus has been on mental health as well, and your books that you've written have been about helping teens explore coping strategies or being able to communicate with their parents and helping parents communicate with their kids. Can you speak a little bit about that and what you've learned in all of your years of your education background and how that's kind of applied to your own journey in this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I was a high school teacher for 10 years and then I was a high school assistant principal and then I worked in therapeutic schools for a long time building therapeutic programs for kids with typically co-occurring disorders so mental health and addiction, you know but on the educational side. So how do these kids still access education in school and keep going? So what that did for me was it really showed me the the worst case scenario often, where the problem has been addressed at the, at the late stages, where it's very intense and very dramatic and very expensive. So really what I wanted to do was like get to a place where people were having uncomfortable conversations now, rather than waiting to the end and spending like a hundred thousand dollars on treatment Right, when oftentimes this could have been very easily addressed in a whole lot of discomfort.
Speaker 2:But in the comparison between the two, um could have been easily addressed. When you talk to your kids about drugs, it doesn't make them do drugs. When you talk to your kids about sex, it doesn't make them have sex. Like when you talk to your kids about mental health, it's not going to like make them depressed. These are all things that we need to be addressing in real time, proactively, unemotionally, kind of non-dramatically, so that they're not, they don't become these big manifestations later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I feel like my eyes were open to that, as I was able to be more honest with myself when I stopped drinking, about the choices that I was making and what they were driven by. It completely reframed how I parent and the conversations that we have with our kids, as they've become teenagers, around these topics in a way that I'm not sure I would have been able to do if I weren't practicing that brutal honesty with myself that comes along with the decision to get real about my coping mechanism.
Speaker 2:Right, and it's not like every parent who drinks has a drinking problem, right, but it's. There is something to be said. It's pretty hard to talk to your kids about their mental health and their coping skills If you, as an adult, don't address yours.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so I think that's why a lot of parents don't is because there's this shame or the reality that you're going to have to actually look in the mirror and have some hard conversations with yourself, because if you're, you know smoking a bowl every night and then you tell Tommy like hey, no weed. He's going to be. Like you know, fuck you, you smoke weed.
Speaker 2:You know, so it's just this weird. You know discomfort, but I can guarantee you, working in that really elevated setting, it's not as uncomfortable as having a kid overdose or or try to take their own life or self-harm or, you know, have a psychotic break.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't even imagine. I feel very grateful that we, you know we had our own struggles and awful situations that I think everyone probably experiences Not everyone, that's that's too big of a blanket statement but a lot of people experience and maybe write off until you start reflecting on it in a in a different light. But I'm grateful you know that we kind of broke that cycle early in our kids lives and have handled it differently, because I just can't imagine especially the responsibility that comes along with that.
Speaker 1:as a parent, you feel responsible for everything and that that's a very heavy one.
Speaker 2:Um for sure.
Speaker 1:Did you, in your experience, feel any trepidation about sharing this part of your journey Um?
Speaker 2:I did not share about it for a long time and actually I didn't tell anybody beyond my wife and my therapist for like six months and then I didn't say anything publicly. Actually, I was outed sort of as being sober on a podcast. I was outed sort of as being sober on a podcast and I went on a podcast with a friend who lived in Texas and he's a big author, educator, and I went to talk about education, right, because that was really what I was known for. Was this kind of intersection of mental health, substance abuse really actually just mental health and education? The substance abuse I hadn't really talked about because I didn't want to talk about it. And then on the podcast he just asked a question like oh, tell me about your sobriety. And in that moment I had to make a choice like oh, do I say like, oh, I don't want to talk about that, or do I just like go for it? And I just went for it. So that was not until probably 2018, maybe, yeah. So a few years, a few years, yeah.
Speaker 1:When we first stopped drinking. It's received differently by a lot of people, and I'm sure you have experienced that as well. People aren't sure how to respond. I feel like it does one of two things makes them reflect on their own choices in a way that they feel like they have to kind of defend, even though you weren't trying to make them feel that way, or that they kind of ask you like you don't drink at all and you're like then you feel the responsibility to explain yourself.
Speaker 2:Right, you have to just, like sober, explain them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sober, explain. That's great. So that's probably a pretty relatable type of response that people have when they first start talking about being sober. My choice doesn't have anything to do with anybody else's choice, and my choice does not mean that I'm judging other people, but it still feels that way sometimes and so that's why I love your content so much, because you're so brave and authentic in the way that you share it, that it doesn't feel judgmental. It doesn't feel like you have to be defensive about it. You're just literally saying like this was my choice and this is how it's impacted me, and I think it's interesting to hear that you had some trepidation around it. I was curious just in researching you, like if you were bashful for lack of a better word because of your education career, if people would you know.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean, I for sure. Yeah, cause I quit drinking in 2015, but I didn't quit my job at the high school until the end of 2016. So, all of 2015, all of 2016,. Maybe some people knew, but I didn't talk about it. Absolutely I didn't want to be like having people second guess every decision I had made or you know, any choice I had made. And I didn't drink at work. I am proud of that. I am proud of that because I drank a lot of places but I didn't drink at work. Yeah, but for sure, there was this like sort of moral high ground that I felt like I had to maintain to keep my credibility, and certainly now, as an entrepreneur, I don't give a shit what people?
Speaker 2:think, and I don't make content to sell anything I don't have a click funnel, I don't have a, I don't have anything. So it's just like. This is just. I'm just saying what I want to say. And some people have main character syndrome where they want to make it about them and they get into comments and they get really aggressive or they're like the sober police and they're like that's not correct. But I don't like that stuff used to really bother me, but now I'm just like, okay, block and bless.
Speaker 1:Block and bless. I love that too, not doing it.
Speaker 2:I'm not here to convince you. I don't care Like don't get hammered.
Speaker 1:And the people that you're resonating with and the people that you're impacting in the way that they need is louder. It's way stronger than the people who want to show up and be keyboard police or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's where I had to like really remind myself why does our brain do that? Like you can have a hundred positive comments and one negative, and then the brain is like oh my God, I'm the worst. Like you start looking at that person's profile and you want to like dissect their like bio and figure out what fuck you brad like yeah, um, but I don't, I just, it just doesn't matter anymore I've got a question.
Speaker 3:Um, you mentioned therapy. Was that something that you started in parallel with with quitting drinking?
Speaker 2:for sure. Yeah, okay, yeah. But I had been in therapy for a while before that, but mostly just to like I would say to myself and to my wife, like I'm only drinking because I have all this trauma from my childhood and from growing up and and that's why, right, so let me go to therapy and like, once I work through it, I'm sure I'll be able to quit, right? So I really didn't start the meaningful work, I think, until after I was sober, because obviously then you're just stuck in your feelings and so you have to get them out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah that's I think you know as a listener out there, listen to this episode. They might be like, well, I've thought about quitting or I want to quit, but it's so scary. But just knowing that you your story, I know. For us, our story, we've definitely leaned on professional help and, quite honestly, without having that there, I don't know that I would have been able to see it through and be sitting here 10 years later, not only therapy but also having like one of my best friend was also going through NA at the time, so he was kind of feeding me the crucial mindset shifting things of like one foot into yesterday, one foot into tomorrow, you're pissing all over today, kind of stuff Totally yeah, because you're always in your head.
Speaker 3:You're like, well, I can, can't. I got a thing coming up next week. I got a drink. I'm not going to drink at that, and I love christmas ales and it's christmas time. I'm not going to drink those. You know and you're like right just what do you need to do today, today, today, today right the future tripping the future yeah you know, I, I have people who want to quit drinking.
Speaker 2:They're like, yeah, but like like, when my daughter gets married, like, and I'm doing the champagne toast, I'm like, bro, your daughter's eight you know, and if you don't stop drinking and you just completely fuck up her life, then is she going to be healthy enough to even get to that phase of life, right? So, like, get over yourself, yeah, yeah, then is she going to be healthy enough to even get to that phase of life. Right so like get over yourself, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Greg, you mentioned about our friend in the support system. Um, Daniel, you've mentioned about your wife being the only person who knew for a while. Uh, can you talk a little bit about the importance of having a strong support system? We talk a lot about supportive spouses, but in this situation, you know who you can lean on your therapist and why. That's a driving force and being able to continue each day.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I I think that the the initial support of a spouse or partner or whatever family is, is good, but it's not. It's not the only thing, and it's actually not lasting, because my wife does not have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. You know, she is a little bit of a psychopath, Like she can have like a few sips of wine and set the glass down and not finish it at dinner and you're just like, I'm just like finish it know sometimes I'll be like I'm not leaving until you finish that, um, but so she just, you know she has the, the, the sympathy, but not the empathy.
Speaker 2:I guess because she's not been in, that she doesn't understand it in the in the way that that I do, and that's not her fault and it shouldn't be my expectation that she assumes that role. Sure, right. So finding a therapist that specializes in addiction, or finding a community group and people have a lot of feelings about AA or NA, or but I'm telling you, right now there's like I could rattle off like 15 online support groups right now that are recovery, like agnostic, right, they don't subscribe to any sort of doctrine and they're great right. Just having any kind of person in the ring with you is super important to making it last. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel very grateful that we did this together, greg, but I also know that in your situation it is possible with a spouse or our parents who still drink around us, and we weren't necessarily uncomfortable with that. I just feel like it's great to have a support system, because we get in our own head and we fall back into these bad habits and these associative habits that sometimes it's helpful to have someone there to be like hey, remember why you're doing this, or oh for sure, yeah, yeah, or you, you know, if you're.
Speaker 2:The other thing that was you know is horrifying, was horrifying to me and horrifying to a lot of people was that, um, you know, like getting new friends, like what about my old friends?
Speaker 2:And then you sort of like phase some people out and you face some new people in, and that's doesn't have to be dramatic and it doesn't have to be, um, you know, right away, but if you're not like shedding people, you're not growing Right, and if people aren't shedding you, you're probably not growing, unless you're just like a dick. But, like you know, like there's going to be times where you're going to kind of move away, and so the people that I'm friends with now on a like daily basis or socially are not the same people that I had in my life 10 years ago. And but if, if I saw them, I would be, it would be great and probably still connected on social media. Mostly, you know, like it's not, it doesn't have to be this thing. So I know a lot of people fear like, well, what about my friends? And well, you know what about your friends?
Speaker 1:Like, yeah, for the most part, I feel like our friends were at first kind of like are you guys serious, Cause we were pretty, you know, pretty big life of the party.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were lots of fun yeah.
Speaker 1:And then it was kind of like oh, you guys are serious and then super supportive, and in fact some of them have said, you know, I've been inspired by your journey to reflect upon my own and that makes it all feel really great. And not from a judgment standpoint or, like you said, I'm not trying to bring anyone along with me or help them make decisions or changes in their life, I'm just being me and that's why I think I'm so drawn to you and how real you are.
Speaker 2:Where I've landed in my messaging and I appreciate the kindness and affirmation is a derivative, though, of having landed in a very big kind of hero complex in like 2020, during like, when I got really big on TikTok and a huge TikTok platform which I which I don't have anymore I deleted TikTok about I don't know almost a year ago, I think, and I had a few hundred thousand followers and then I started running these free groups and then you could pay to be in the group and it was like this kind of feeling, like I had to save everyone and and I had to maintain this sense of like everything's good all the time in my content right, never showing, never showing up, like fuck, this is so hard.
Speaker 2:And this is what happened, like it was always really intentional to try to like boost everyone up and in 2023, I ended up in a outpatient program for depression Because I was so emotionally exhausted. I was just laying on the floor of our living room like I stopped working. I just like I could not function. I could not function, so I had to go. I didn't have to. I chose to go to. This program is all day for eight weeks and it was like therapeutic summer camp, like all these people. It was so fun, um, it was so hard, but it was great, um.
Speaker 2:So I think now my one of my other messages to people is like don't, you, don't have to save anyone. You, you really actually you can't save anyone. That's right. So don't even try. Like if they want to kind of follow your, your suggestion, or they want to follow like the way that you live your life, perfect, but it's not your job, nor is it like your ego's job to be some fucking Messiah to people who are in recovery or thinking about it. So I really try to be like take it or leave it. This is my message, this is my truth. I have good days and bad days and I get a lot of DMS. I get a lot of DMS that are super, you know, raw, let's say, and I used to take time to really like try to thoughtfully reply and like encourage and you can do, I. I just I don't do it anymore. Really, like some people, yeah, if, but I don't you know I don't respond to the like really pouty kind of victimy messages.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not my job.
Speaker 1:That's right, and you have established that boundary for yourself in a way that keeps you healthy, which is extremely important. Yeah, um, I so many things that you said that I can relate to and that I have questions about. 10 years later, or almost 10 years later, for me, I still have moments where I'm like if I were a drinker, I'd be almost there by now. It's noon, I'm with my kids, or it's a holiday and I'm over it. Do you experience that, and what are some of the things that you've learned along the way, tools that you lean on in those moments all these years later?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I mean, what's so funny that there's the opposite? It's like when I was a drinker actor drinker I was a very rigid school schedule. You know, like very, you have no decision-making power about your schedule, right. But now I'm an entrepreneur and I just launched a new, a new startup a few months ago which I'm just at home working on and I don't have to be anywhere. You know, I don't have to be anywhere, so I have to make myself have to be somewhere, or have to have now having kids, or have to have Now having kids certainly helps, right, because I do like get up, get them ready for school, pack the lunches, take them to school, pick them up from school, coach their teams.
Speaker 2:But I, you know, I go to the gym a few times a week with some buddies and I go for a walk every day and I try to, you know, stay busy. Like yesterday my wife was out of town with one of our kids and so I had another. My oldest was with a friend and then my youngest was with a friend. So I was like I'm all by myself, like this would have been prime drinking season.
Speaker 1:So I cleaned my house.
Speaker 2:I cleaned.
Speaker 3:I did the laundry.
Speaker 2:I did some rage cleaning. I didn't actually want to drink, but I just knew like that was would have been the perfect storm of drunk daniel be like nfl playoff game the universe clearly wants me to get drunk, like yeah, it's sunday it's sunday, fun day, bro. Well and it was raining here too so that's even more like oh, it never rains here Better get the whiskey out.
Speaker 1:Always a reason, that is for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like embarrassing to think about some of the lies that I told myself about why I needed to drink, and some of them that I still have to talk myself off the ledge about all these years later. Kind of to your point at the beginning of like it doesn't just happen overnight. So what advice would you give someone who is doing dry January or someone who is, you know, considering what life without alcohol might look like? But it's scary. You're on the mountaintop and you've got the microphone in your hand. What's your best line of advice for them?
Speaker 2:I mean, I would just say don't get a case of the forevers right. Like you don't have nothing is forever. So if you decide to take a break, like it's just a break, like, as my older daughter would say to me, it's not that deep, it's not that deep, right so? But what I will say is that I think every adult should give themselves the opportunity at least to experience life without alcohol for long enough to know the difference and the second half of that sentence is the big part of that sentence.
Speaker 2:Long enough to know the difference is not 31 days, because if you're just doing a dry January, which is commendable, but you're literally just counting down the days and in your brain you're like February 1st getting hammered, you know. So you just have this three months. Maybe you could start to tell six months, for sure you know that's when you would then say okay, am I going to go back or not? And I think the typical pattern for a lot of people that I experience is they go. I did three months maybe, and I haven't managed. I'm just going to drink like, put all the rules back in, but make it bigger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, only on weekends, never alone, only with with people, never at home, like that's exactly what I did, yeah yeah, you try to rearrange the chairs like on the titanic, right like it, just it's not working. And so then the second time you're like oh okay, yeah, but people have to learn that on their own. Yeah, and you really can't. I think you can quit drinking for somebody else, but you have, you can only stay sober for yourself yeah which is which is weird.
Speaker 2:Um, so a lot of people will get ultimatums or you know, a health scare, like me, and you're just like okay, I'm gonna stop, because the doctor told me and my wife was like what the fuck? And I'm like and so I'm gonna stop because I have to yeah, yeah but then month two was like. No, I kind of want to even though I don't. I'm 50, 50, you know. And then eventually I took ownership of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Would you say that month two is accurate for you? That's when you feel like you kind of wanted to Well yeah, I wanted.
Speaker 2:I was well, I was afraid to drink.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was, it was fear. Well, I was afraid to drink, yeah, so it was fear, but at least it was my own Sure. You know, I had proven quote proven that I'm not an alcoholic, I can quit drinking. But I think what I really proved was that I actually was an alcoholic, because it was so hard and you know, I just had this big calendar, like a school calendar, up on my kitchen and I would cross off with a blue Sharpie every day that I didn't drink.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did that for months, probably like six months. Wow, like a huge tabletop, one that's meant to go on the big principal's desk, I like ripped it off and I put it up on the wall. Wow, but no one we didn't have anyone over, so no one knew.
Speaker 1:No one could see that. Yeah Well, as a woman, I had quit drinking when I was pregnant and I was also a professional bodybuilder for a short time and I could quit while I was training. So of course I didn't have a problem. I can quit whenever I want to, if I feel like I have a reason to Sure. But then when the real time came and it was time for me to reevaluate kind of that relationship and who I show up as it was like very easy for me to see that, like you said, I probably had a little more of a problem than I would have ever given given credit to during that time when I when I couldn't see it that way- Well and that's the other part I think about early recovery is that if you're me, you tried to sugarcoat it, so I was always intentional about making it seem easier than it was to people around me, because if I said it was so hard, then I was just like proving everything right that I had such a problem.
Speaker 1:That makes sense.
Speaker 2:By minimizing the struggle of initial recovery, I was hiding how deep the problem was for me.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now that you say that, if I reflect upon, like my initial months, I definitely I did that to myself and not just for myself but for everyone else around me, I think, to make them comfortable with my decision.
Speaker 2:You don't want to make them too uncomfortable. Oh, it's fine, everything's good.
Speaker 1:And then you're like in your car, like like yeah, I've had people reach out about this, you know, not, not like it sounds like you have where they're pouring their heart out to me and I'm not sure I would be ready to handle that, but in a way where it's like I didn't drink for two weeks and I didn't really feel a difference and I just I commend them for their approach. But I agree with you that it takes so much longer to really get to the root of what you're feeling and why you feel that way.
Speaker 2:to kind, of make that decision. If you have the need to send that message, then you don't actually feel that way, right then? You don't actually feel that way Right, because somebody who doesn't drink for two weeks and doesn't care does not send a message telling someone that they didn't drink for two weeks.
Speaker 1:Right, it's just not even a thing. It's not even a thing.
Speaker 2:Like if I asked my wife like, oh, when's the last time you had a drink? She would be like I have no idea, Right.
Speaker 1:She literally wouldn't know.
Speaker 2:If you had asked me like, oh, I haven't had a drink in three days, like, I would know, like, and I'd be so proud of it and it would be this big thing. But that's not how normal people and I don't say normal, like we're different in their normal, but normies is what you know, kind of a street name for people who don't drink is or who don't have a drinking problem normies. They just don't think about those things.
Speaker 1:I've never heard that before.
Speaker 2:Normies. Is that?
Speaker 1:like a West Coast thing. I guess that's what we call people who don't have a drinking problem.
Speaker 2:normies, Normies. People will be like, oh, does your wife drink? And I say, no, she's a normie.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's great. I love that I do want to ask you about what your new venture is. You've mentioned it a couple of times, about being an entrepreneur and working on a project. Is that something you'd share and talk?
Speaker 2:about. Yeah, I mean it's. We're open for business. So I started a company called known at home and or known for short, and it pairs adolescent substance testing so instant drug test, instant alcohol test, instant nicotine test with intensive parent education. So when you buy a test it comes with access to a parent platform. That's all of this curated content by licensed clinical psychologists trying to help you understand the why behind the what right.
Speaker 2:So like, maybe don't just ground timmy because he's you know, white girl wasted at homecoming. Why don't you actually figure out, maybe, why he's drinking? Is he anxious, is he depressed? Was it just like a, like a one and done Cause he was peer pressure or whatever? So what I understood about, like you know, working in in treatment is there's a lot of testing. There's a lot of drug testing that's available, but nothing came with any kind of parent support. So I wanted to make something that was high quality, low cost and highly like, enriched with education. So it's a lot of mental health articles and how to support and what to do when, and talking points, things like that. So I'm really excited about it.
Speaker 1:Amazing Congratulations.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's just such a beautiful transition from your own background your own journey and marrying them together to provide resources, your own journey and marrying them together to provide resources. Natural, yeah, and you know not, over 90% of adult addicts start using under 18.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker 2:So you know, but you know, parent everyone can do whatever they want, but I wanted to if, if people are going to have or test their kids, I want them to be empowered with the correct tools to you can test. But then what you know?
Speaker 1:what do you do with that? What do you do with that?
Speaker 2:What do you do with that information? Yeah, absolutely Imperative to being able to make meaningful change, versus just kind of treat the symptom or the situation and then and maybe create a little healthy paranoia in your children, um children, so that they don't start using at an early age, because every year that they don't use they're less likely to have an unhealthy relationship with that substance.
Speaker 1:What are the conversations like if you don't mind me asking that you have with your kids? Are you there yet? Are they still young enough? Oh no, definitely.
Speaker 2:I mean, my kids know that I'm sober. Obviously they're very aware of that. Um, they can. It's, it's a boundary, is not bubble wrap, right? So I want my kids to be out into the world, doing things, being around things, but knowing there's a line in the sand that is defined because ambiguity with teenagers does not work.
Speaker 1:It's the worst.
Speaker 2:No, it doesn't. And again, it's hard. It's hard because you want your kids to like you and they want to get you. But if you get friend zoned by your kids, you are, you're, you're, you're screwed yeah.
Speaker 1:I would agree with that. I think there it's a very difficult, uh slippery slope to manage between being an authoritative figure and being someone that they can confide in for sure.
Speaker 2:And I think and again, that's where I think the whole lean of known is. It's not punitive, yes, it's live in information, not fear. It's sort of having these courageous conversations again to figure out the why behind the what.
Speaker 1:I love that so much. I think that's has the potential to help so many people, especially as parents and as adults, when maybe we don't know exactly what to do. That's obviously the point. But, like if you don't know how to approach these topics, you just tend to stay away from them, Even if, even if you are sober, even if you don't drink.
Speaker 1:It still can be very uncomfortable because so-and-so's parents drink and I was at their house and they are normies and they just had a glass of wine with dinner. Why can't you guys do that? Or what does it taste like? Or you know?
Speaker 2:even, like you're my, if you have a kid and they're best friends. Parents don't care if their best friend drinks, right, but you do. So how do you navigate that dynamic?
Speaker 1:Absolutely Resources to help people feel empowered and armed with knowledge around uncomfortable topics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that paralysis by analysis, just it's not worth it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2:Very good, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you so much for sharing all of your experience and your insights. Where can people go to find more about you and and your new venture?
Speaker 2:Patterson perspective is my handle and known at homecom is the business.
Speaker 1:Amazing. I will link those in the show notes. Thank you To all of you listeners out there. Thank you so much for joining us. If this resonated with you, please share it with a friend. It takes away the stigma of not drinking being a big, scary monster and makes us. Can we be normies too?
Speaker 2:Unfortunately not.
Speaker 1:That's not how that works. It does kind of normalize the conversation around what to do with alcohol, what not to do with alcohol, what it means to everyone and makes it not so deep Not that deep, that's right, thank you. We have new episodes every Wednesday. We hope you'll join us again soon. Thanks so much, Daniel. Thanks, Greg. Until next time.
