The Cameo Show
The Cameo Show is a podcast about sharing our life experiences and learning from each other. Through solo stories and inspiring conversations with a wide variety of guests, we explore the secrets and strategies for feeling confident, empowered and equipped to live the life we want to lead. Tune in to learn how to find joy and fulfillment in your life and to gain valuable insights from the amazing stories and lessons of our guests.
The Cameo Show
Relationship Myths Debunked
What if everything you've heard about relationships is wrong? In this myth-busting episode, we take on the conventional wisdom that might be quietly damaging your relationship. Using research from the Gottman Institute, we examine twelve relationship myths that sound reasonable but don't hold up under scientific scrutiny.
We tackle the dismissive idea that "marriage is just a piece of paper," revealing how this mindset undermines the living, breathing entity that requires constant nurturing. Perhaps most surprising is the truth about conflict—far from being a red flag, the absence of conflict often signals deeper problems of disengagement or one partner consistently subordinating their needs.
The myth that "love is enough" has devastated countless relationships where partners genuinely cared for each other but lacked the communication skills and practical tools to navigate life's challenges together. We share from personal experience how therapy transformed our marriage when catastrophe struck, and why fewer than 10% of divorcing couples ever speak with a professional before ending their relationship.
Our conversation gets particularly passionate around the stigma of therapy and how pride often prevents couples from seeking help until it's too late. As we discuss from our own journey, learning to communicate effectively about conflicts, past wounds, and different perspectives isn't intuitive—it's a skill set that most of us need guidance to develop.
Whether you're in a committed relationship or single, understanding these relationship myths provides valuable perspective on what actually creates lasting connection. Join us for this transformative conversation that might just change how you think about love, conflict, communication, and what it truly takes to build a relationship that thrives instead of merely survives.
If you're interested in learning more about healthy relationships, visit the Gottman Institute's website for research-based resources that can help you develop the skills needed for a thriving partnership.
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Hello and welcome to the Cameo Show. I'm your host, cameo, and we are joined by my favorite husband and co-host.
Speaker 2:I'm the favorite husband.
Speaker 1:You know what I meant, mr Greg Braun, everybody.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I can't believe it's Wednesday already and here we are with another exciting episode.
Speaker 1:Every Wednesday. Today, we're going to tackle some of the biggest relationship myths out there. This information is courtesy of the Gottman Institute, which we refer to a lot as we talk about relationships and marriage, and this is stuff that, like, you've probably heard a million times, but some of it might not actually be true. So we're going to go through and kind of do a myth busters kind of thing, like a true or false, true or trash kind of thing, and I'll probably be wrong about all of them. Well, we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 2:Can I start with the dad joke though?
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, yeah, please do.
Speaker 2:You're ready to just get right into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sorry about that.
Speaker 2:So why don't watermelons get married? I don't know. Because they cantaloupe.
Speaker 1:Very good, very good. True or trash? No, just kidding. Number one, number one relationship myth is that marriage is just a piece of paper. Yes or no? True or false? What are your thoughts? Um well, it is a legal binding contract, I guess yeah, I suppose between two people that says we're gonna be together and if you leave me, I'm taking half your shit you know like unless you have a prenup. That's a whole, whole other episode. I know nothing about prenups. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I mean. To me that begs the question of like how do people view marriage and the sanctity of it and the seriousness of it? Like, oh, it's just a piece of paper, like I can just wad that up and throw it in the trash and it's like well, that's probably not the right way to view it and, based onman Institute, it shouldn't be treated as such yeah it's definitely a living, breathing, functioning thing.
Speaker 2:It's like a, it's like a entity of itself that needs love and care and yeah you know, so it's definitely more than just a piece of paper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're moving on. I don't like that one. Yeah, but it's on the list, so I'm mentioning it.
Speaker 2:But number two Well, can I just say, it gets people thinking past well, I'm married, so checklist, everything should just kind of take care of itself and it's like yeah, that's just when the work begins, you know, yeah, well, I'm married, so checklist, everything should just kind of take care of itself and it's like, yeah, that's just when the work begins.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's just kind of dependent on whoever the person is, their attitude toward almost anything in life. If marriage is just a piece of paper, you probably think the stop sign is just a suggestion. You know what I mean Kind of laissez-faire about everything. So I can appreciate that. It's on the list, but we're moving on.
Speaker 2:We're moving on.
Speaker 1:Number two living alone with occasional relationships is a lifestyle choice that is equivalent, in terms of life outcomes, to being married.
Speaker 1:I don't really understand that one don't either skip it I think what they're saying is like if you choose to live alone, you will live a healthy life, just as if you live with your spouse or in a relationship where you have another person as part of your ecosystem. And it says myth, like in epidemiology. Social epidemiology shows that people who live alone die sooner, are less healthy, less wealthy and recover from illness slower than people who are married, especially men yeah because they have a worse social support network than women I could agree with that.
Speaker 1:I mean I can see the majority. I'm not sure that that is a blanket statement for everyone. I'm sure there are plenty of people who live alone their entire lifetime and are healthy and take care of themselves and have a social network that's healthy, and maybe there are plenty of men who have healthy social networks and women who don't. So grain of salt, but I guess as a majority I can see that one. Yeah, okay, number three this one gets a little. This one gets this one, you know, gets a little loud.
Speaker 2:This one got you dancing I guess, so this one gets a little.
Speaker 1:Well, anytime the word conflict is in the title, it you know it starts making you think a little bit, like it starts cha-cha on.
Speaker 2:yeah, it means I'm gonna have an opinion about something.
Speaker 1:Okay conflict, but true or false conflict is a sign that you're in a bad relationship that's, that is false is it? Hold on a second are youflict is a sign that you're in a bad relationship.
Speaker 2:That's false.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally false.
Speaker 2:But I can see how people might view it that way, that everything's great, we never fight about anything, everything's just hunky-dory, and that would basically indicate that one person dominates and the other one just submits to avoid conflict. Or that neither care enough to, or there's not enough engagement in the marriage To create any friction?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, conflict is inevitable in all relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Because when we have a conflict, if we do it in a healthy way which we've had to learn how to do it helps me understand you as a person better, Because there's a reason that you think something, understand something a certain way, feel a certain way that's different than me. That causes conflict, because it's unfamiliar for me that you get to parse through Like it's an opportunity to learn and be curious. More than anything, it's just our emotions get the best of us sometimes and we argue as a married couple. You're making big decisions. We're not always talking about trivial things either. We're talking about big decisions about finances and children and careers, and sometimes different ideas can present, you know, a little bit of friction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think conflict as, as we have learned on our journey, in the beginning of our relationship we just didn't know how to deal with each other.
Speaker 2:We didn't know how to handle conflict and I didn't know how to handle your energy and you didn't know how to handle my, and I didn't know how to handle your energy and you didn't know how to handle my energy. And so you know, we did it the best way we could, but that's one of the things that going to therapy taught us was how to communicate and deal with conflict. That will inevitably come.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:As you said, life is full of big, big events and big decisions, and when everything's hunky dory and there's no issues, everything's fine. But when the rubber hits the road, that's when you get to see the depth of the relationship and find out like, oh my gosh, how do we get through this? Through this, and knowing how to communicate and handle conflict has been a huge push in the right direction for our happiness and our and our marriage. I can say, because then it's like you have this confidence about you that, like I don't care what is thrown in our lap or what what comes up, we will get through it together. We will, you know.
Speaker 1:and yeah, you learn to trust each other in a way when you deal with conflict openly and transparently, because you recognize that the other person might have big feelings or expectations that are different than yours, but that through practice and through evidence, you can always seem to come to some sort of compromise or agreement. You know this idea that one person always gets their way and the other person just submits. I mean, I guess, again, depending on the person, might be what you're looking for, but in a healthy, balanced relationship, marriage or any relationship for that matter, you're going to come across things that don't always line up, that you have to learn to work through yeah and if you can't communicate about them, yeah, dead in the water, like it's going to show up conflict and friction.
Speaker 1:You better learn how to communicate about it, yeah, and decide when it's worth communicating about it and when it's not yeah yeah, what was that thing you sent me the other day about?
Speaker 2:like I've eliminated a lot of conflict in my life by recognizing that, unless someone, oh yeah, unless someone is paying me to fix their problems, I don't need to chime in, I don't need to voice my opinion about it if they're not paying me to yeah you know it's like, wow, that's a pretty freeing statement, because how much stuff do you worry about that?
Speaker 1:it's like there's nothing you can do about it, you know yeah, and that may not pertain to a marriage or relationship or a close relationship, but also great advice to live by, because it's like everybody has an opinion. It's just not always necessary to share what that is yeah we've talked about that a few times. Yeah. A whole episode about opinions and assholes. Yeah. All right. Number four moving on, true or false, I'm interested in what you have to say about this. One Love is enough. False why.
Speaker 2:You could be in love and willing to do whatever it takes. Why you could be in love and willing to do whatever it takes. But if the other party is just unavailable and they don't want the same thing, then it really doesn't matter. You have to have. It's a buy-in on both sides.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're probably right and according to the Gottman Institute, you are. Love is enough is a myth, because in most marriages and relationships, people are courting each other, romanticizing each other, and then life happens, baby comes, career changes, big stuff, and you love each other, you care about each other, but the other stuff gets in the way and then roommate syndrome kicks in or your marriage starts to feel like a checklist.
Speaker 1:So that doesn't mean you don't love each other. It just means that the other things are no longer in focus and not being tended to, and those things can be enough to break a marriage if they're not worked on, even if you still love each other. Yeah, love is a feeling and these other things. Are our effort right enough to break a marriage if they're not worked on, even if you still love each other?
Speaker 2:yeah love is a feeling and yeah these other things are our effort right yeah, you can love your, your garden and have you know this big fantasy and vision about it, but if you don't tend to it and weed it and you know, put good, good stuff out there and make sure it's always being watered, it's not gonna thrive right it's not gonna yield any crops I like to believe that you know, love can heal everything and I I do somewhat, but I just think that love is probably the foundation for the work yeah that has to ensue.
Speaker 1:Love is what keeps you focused on making sure you do the work. But if you don't do the work, love will not keep it there. Keep it together. What is love? Baby don't hurt me.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, no. But what is love to?
Speaker 1:you Love is a feeling of safety and confidence and energy yeah, yeah, it's definitely a feeling right yeah, just isn't that wild yeah, and it's interesting when you ask that question, I am not even sure how to answer it and I would because it's a gut feeling.
Speaker 2:There are no words, right, you know.
Speaker 1:We say it, we use that word so much Love you, I love you, I love that. Oh my God, that's so great. I love that. I love coffee. Well, what do you mean? You love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, some things you love, some things you don't like, you hate. It's all just a feeling that you get, so it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 1:Now I'm stuck on what is love.
Speaker 2:Baby, don't hurt me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, joke number two, you snuck one in there. Okay, number five Talking about past emotional wounds will only make them worse.
Speaker 2:And I can see how that would be. People would think that's true, but I would say that that's definitely false.
Speaker 1:False, according to the Gottman Institute. Again, all subjective to what people's perspective is for sure and I can agree with you. I can see where that could be true that it only makes it worse.
Speaker 1:but in a healthy relationship kind of back to that communication conversation I can't understand where you're coming from, especially when it's coming from an old wound that maybe has nothing to do with me but gets projected onto me if we don't communicate about it, if I don't understand where you're coming from and why, and then when I do, and vice versa in our marriage and we don't always get there really quickly. Sometimes this is like an ongoing evolution, not sometimes all the time. You know we're constantly learning and evolving. But when I finally do understand where you're coming from, it's a lot easier to see you with empathy and compassion than it is frustration and anger and contention.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, when you talk to somebody, you're talking to their triggers.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They're having emotional reactions and responses to things that you say. You could bring up a topic that's very sensitive to somebody and they immediately go into the red zone, you know as an example.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a visceral reaction, sometimes too, where people don't even know their body is just doing it. Like we had something come up recently and we were talking about like knowing and understanding and being able to think about it and talk yourself through it, but also, at the same time, like your body knows, like your body feels it, and that's a visceral reaction where people maybe start sweating or yeah start feeling that like rage build up and they're cork, ready to pop yeah and they don't aren't in control of it.
Speaker 2:It's not a conscious thing, it's yeah it's a subconscious deeply rooted that's why this is all so hard, because it's all like science, it's all. Yeah, it's all kind of like primitive feelings and um, but the whole point of being safe, talking about old wounds and old traumas is because that way you can work through it in the future if something comes up. I mean it's not like you're just reliving these things just to do it it's like. It's the same as like. If you owned a business, you'd be like where be like? Where are my potential issues?
Speaker 2:Or deficiencies or what happened in the past that I need to be cognizant of, and that's a very safe thing to be, like any successful business person would be like. Yeah, a very valid question. I'm always asking myself what am I missing here? What am I missing here? But why wouldn't you feel that way about your marriage? Like, what am I missing here Talking about these things?
Speaker 1:Well, because feelings and emotions are vulnerable and they're also very personal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's like it seems so obvious that you would want to and not bury your head in the sand.
Speaker 1:I think sometimes people want to. They just maybe don't know how to. Yeah, we didn't Well exactly, so we literally went and learned, I mean, and even went and learned I mean, and even still to this day and are learning. Yeah, it's like hard. Conversations are always hard. You might get a little better at approaching them, but they're always hard yeah and understanding our own emotions is very difficult, so understanding our spouse's emotions is even more so, right? I mean talking about past wounds is a healthy thing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and you know you're getting to a good place when you can talk about past wounds and they don't trigger you and you don't feel anything about them. It's just like talking about a Netflix show you watched last night and it doesn't become a personal tragedy that you've experienced. That's growth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I also think. Just one more thing that popped into my mind there is that, like it's really difficult sometimes to recognize in ourselves when we're being triggered by something that hurts us. So if our spouse is aware of that existing maybe not in the moment, but even at another time it would be helpful and is often appropriate to bring that up and say, like you know, maybe you were having that reaction because, remember that time you shared with me about this happening, or this person said this, or even from your childhood, that your spouse then is able to say, maybe that's what made you feel that way in that situation, and then you're able to disconnect from it emotionally a little bit and look at it with a little bit more like separation and distance and be like oh yeah, wow, okay bit and look at it with a little bit more like separation and distance and be like oh yeah, wow Okay.
Speaker 1:That was reminiscent of that time. But if your spouse was unaware of those types of things that were impactful for you, you might continue on being frustrated. Your spouse is frustrated because we don't understand why this is happening or why it keeps happening.
Speaker 2:You're just like why can't you be normal?
Speaker 1:That every wife to every husband. No, I'm just kidding. All right, I like this one. I think you could do an entire episode on this one. True or false. Better relationships are ones in which people are more independent and less needy of one another.
Speaker 2:Okay, say that again.
Speaker 1:Better relationships are the ones where people are more independent of and less needy of one another.
Speaker 2:I mean, I feel like that's just preference.
Speaker 1:We could talk about this for an hour, because I think you can get into the conversation of interdependence in one another versus codependence in one another. You can talk about being independent and still having your own space and time to explore your own hobbies, but then also being like, respectful and connected to your spouse in ways that seemingly compromise your independence. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know so Gottman Institute says in great relationships people try to meet each other's needs and they adopt the motto when you're hurting baby, the world stops. And I listen. So more of a like we're a team and that interdependence is a what a relationship is all about.
Speaker 1:that in a healthy relationship, we flow and it's not about maintaining my individuality so much so that it causes a wedge yeah it's healthy to have your own things, sure, but I feel like again, in my opinion and I I'm curious what yours is here but like that, if left unchecked, can cause a lot of conflict and friction, because one person then kind of inadvertently deems their independence or their preferences or their interests as more important than the relationship or it completely ignores that the relationship is also its own living, breathing thing yeah, I just think it, that one comes back to balance and common sense, because what's right for me might not be right for this other person or this other person, and as long as I'm taking care of you're taking care of you and we take care of the marriage.
Speaker 2:Those are the three things that, when those are all happy and healthy and in synchronicity, things just happen and flow and there's nothing that we can't get through and deal with.
Speaker 1:But the central message of what you just said is that you treat the marriage like it has its own separate needs, and you're not just focused on maintaining your independence, you're focused on making sure that everything flows, which is interdependence upon each other.
Speaker 1:Codependence is a completely separate conversation and topic, but we talk about this often. We spend all the time together. We work together, we work out together, we parent together, we drive together. We are together almost all the time, but I still feel very independent in my thinking and in the things that I enjoy doing, and I just feel very lucky that I get to do a lot of those with you, that we share the same interests where to an outsider or in some cases it is codependence, where, like I, can't do things without you versus choosing to and again preference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think if someone is really extremely needy and that falls into that codependence, like you need me, you're, you're expecting me to carry a lot of heavy, the heavy parts of this relationship, that that's a major, you know, point of contention for people because it's too much pressure. So I would say that a better relationship is one where people are less needy but not in the way of like being shut down and not open with each other. Yeah, back to flow. Flow feels like the right word for that. Yeah, for that one, these are like kind of heavy.
Speaker 2:That's a heavy one.
Speaker 1:Some of them are kind of dumb too, like this one feels dumb to me, ready Number seven. Some of them are kind of dumb too, like this one feels dumb to me, ready number seven. True or false if you have to work at communication. You are not soulmates, false, sorry.
Speaker 2:Gotman institute, I respect everything you present, but this one makes me a little well, because people might think if it's right, it's right and I shouldn't have to work at it. I don't got to work that hard. Well, you do. You have to work newsflash.
Speaker 1:You have to work at everything, no matter what. Welcome to life. Everything is work. It's just how you view the work that is in front of you. What kind of mindset do you have around the work and what the purpose of the work is? All relationships require work in big bold print. Well, maybe it's not that obvious. Obviously not, All right. Well, next, this one's kind of like in the same vein If a relationship needs therapy, it's already too late.
Speaker 2:I can see how a majority of people would feel that way.
Speaker 1:Majority Ready Big stat. There are 900,000 divorces a year in the US. I don't know what the date of this is.
Speaker 2:It was updated in 24.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's pretty darn accurate Almost a million.
Speaker 2:A million a year.
Speaker 1:And fewer than 10% of the couples that divorce ever talk to a professional. So most people do feel like what you just said, that it's true that if we need therapy it's already over.
Speaker 2:Which is kind of silly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean therapy saved our marriage. Yeah, and we were going to therapy and then had a big event happen that was catastrophic. And if we hadn't already been going to therapy and continued going to therapy, we would be one of those statistics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, easy, for sure, easy.
Speaker 1:But we chose to put our egos to the side reluctantly and you know sometimes, and go do the work with a professional and get rid of the bullshit stigma that therapy is weak and therapy is if you have a problem and all of the things that are associated with the idea of going to therapy.
Speaker 2:I mean, I get it. We are very prideful creatures. We think we're right about a lot of things that we're just wrong about.
Speaker 2:You know, we, we, no but but oh my, oh, my god it's. It's kind of like I can easily say it's like an owner's manual, like you've got to like know the rules of the game. It's like trying to figure out how to play a complex board game just through trial and error and you might get lucky with some stuff. But if you really want to know how to fast track things and how to really move a little bit more effortlessly and happily around the board.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah it's an, it's just a no-brainer. It's almost like should be, like something that people do in the very beginning, like okay, fine, we're gonna take this to the next level. We should just like as a precautionary, like what's the word? Proactively? Yeah because you, I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's just, it's all about communication yeah, if we weren't so prideful and there wasn't a stigma around therapy which I do think I feel personally, and maybe this is just my vantage point or what's in my orb and center of influence but I feel like therapy is definitely becoming de-stigmatized and people, especially in younger generations, are starting to recognize it as something that's necessary with mental health on, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know the stats, I'm not an expert in any of this relationships, I just have the experience to speak from. That's relevant because of our experience, but like if we would simply put more emphasis and focus on communication and on being able to express ourselves, even our deepest, darkest, most shameful things, in an effort to start anew for ourselves, release ourselves from the grip that that can sometimes have on us with a professional who knows what tools to give you and what guidance to give you. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We'd be so evolved just as a population. Yeah. And that would then obviously impact our divorce rate and our relationships yeah we're just so quick, we're impulsive and quick to chase the things that are easy and and bring us quick hits of dopamine that, like therapy, is just. There's nothing sexy about it.
Speaker 2:So well, it admits that I have a problem, it admits that I might be, and there were times in our experience where the look on your face when something was said that you thought you were right about, and she would be like, do you hear him? And you'd be like, and the same with me.
Speaker 1:That must not have happened very often because I don't recall.
Speaker 2:And the same with me that must not have happened very often, because I don't recall Pretty frequently. No, I do. But there were times the same with me where to hear an unbiased third party sit with you and your spouse and look at you in the eye and say do you hear her Like? I'm so stubborn in my male brain of like, but that's not what it is. You know, that's not the right. It might take 10 minutes for it to sink in and be like okay.
Speaker 1:I get this or the whole week, and then you go back to the next session and you're like wait. I see that now.
Speaker 2:And then where, like you had that situation, that was a big conflict. After you then have these tools, you can look back and be like duh, yeah, no, that's, that wouldn't even be an issue now.
Speaker 1:So that's how you grow and get better and evolve and right you know or or you don't and I can see like it's often easier to see in others things that are going on when you're not emotionally attached to it. So we talked about that earlier, like as we're discussing our old wounds right. The same applies for like you can look at your you know cousins relationship or marriage, or your parents marriage or your best friend's marriage, and see things from the outside and a lot of times that's just your own interpretation or opinion. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's not exactly what we're talking about here, like having an unbiased third party.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, not a family member Like an actual professional. A professional yeah.
Speaker 1:Who is trained and understands these things has studied them to be able to be unbiased, but also to not inflict their own opinion. So, those two things are not the same, but they are equally as important For us when we first went to therapy.
Speaker 2:I mean we should by all means be a statistic of divorce.
Speaker 1:We should oh, my God.
Speaker 2:Right. So but in those rawest times being in a room doing work, you just feel like a wild animal in there with your emotions and you're like I know I emotions and you and you're like I know I'm right and you're like I know I'm right and it's like there's such a conflict about it. No shit, you would get divorced.
Speaker 1:Because it's like there's just no way if there's no one there to tell you hey, your ego is leading. You're sure as hell not going to take that from me no, you're not going to hear me say that yeah and be like you're right yeah, it is.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm all charged up? I just now realized it.
Speaker 1:I'm just being an asshole but when the professional sitting across from you says hey, you're, that's your ego jumping in to protect you like you're getting all charged up about something, but that's not what she's saying to you.
Speaker 2:You're hearing it differently.
Speaker 1:Again, it might take you 10 minutes, it might take you the whole week, but you're definitely more attuned and apt to take that information and digest it. Otherwise it's just me battling you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's. Another big important thing is who you get your information from is so important, especially in this day and age.
Speaker 1:There's so many sidebars, we should have dissected these one at a time.
Speaker 2:But seriously, if you get the wrong information and you just run with that wrong information your whole life like nope this is it and it's like ah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the best thing I heard recently and I don't know what exactly was said, but the sentiment is approach everything with curiosity. Yeah, I love curiosity. I love the word curious. It makes me think of Alice in Wonderland when she's like curiouser and curiouser, and it just makes me feel all warm and like a little kid because I love Alice in Wonderland. Not the point, but just if you lead with curiosity, then there is no ego, there is no right or wrong, you're just simply exploring.
Speaker 1:And there's so much freedom in that, and so that's what the therapy journey is all about, and we kind of are on a sidebar here, because the point was, if you need therapy, it's too late false. But that's when it begins, when you go to therapy if you're not being proactive and you wait for a problem, then yes, that's when it begins with therapy.
Speaker 2:But, like up to that point you were just flying around the board game with no rules, just like. Like what are we doing here? I don't know. But when you go to therapy and you both go and like we're going to do this, that's day one of the work, that's day one of going to the gym and be like I'm ready to get in shape.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Let's get our marriage in shape. I mean, why is that so difficult, though?
Speaker 1:Stigma stigma yeah, that's wow. And maybe because it's not equitable, therapy is not available, an available option for everyone. Now I will say that obviously there's. There are plenty of resources and there are resource centers and there are free programs and there's a lot of online support these days. Maybe there were 20 years ago and I didn't know. So I'm not saying that it's not available for everyone, but nothing is. You could even say that about the gym.
Speaker 1:You know that not everyone has the ability to sure there's out, yeah, outliers and things that are outside of the big thing is stigma, I think I think it's just too hard to face the idea that I might be a I might be wrong I might be the cause of some of my problems. You know, like that's a and I'm gonna go pay somebody to tell me that, fuck, that it's easier to just not and then forget it. You know that's my opinion. We're huge, uh, advocates of therapy. If you can't tell. So sorry for that little tangent, but okay, moving on. Brace for impact. Okay.
Speaker 1:Number nine true or false? Couples fight most about these three things Sex, money and in-laws. True or false? True, I would say true too if you were asking me and I didn't have the answer in front of me, but according to the Gottman Institute, it's false. Really.
Speaker 2:Are you serious?
Speaker 1:Well, when I say the answer, I'm going to say it's loosely false. Here's why the answer is that the one thing couples fight most about is actually nothing, that they're conflicts that pop up because they are failed bids at connecting. Yeah, or conflicts that pop up because of outside stressors.
Speaker 2:That's a trick question then.
Speaker 1:I agree that's a loose false because couples fight a lot about sex, money and in-laws. Yeah. You know, because they're emotional and they're heavy and they're difficult to discern the right thing or the wrong thing. It feels like there's an answer to how much, how often, who, when, where, to all of those things. But I would agree that nothing seems to be.
Speaker 2:Nothing seems to be, but but on an average week, the average week of bickerings, or, you know, the average week of little arguments and spats.
Speaker 1:It's about we're late, shut up, you're the one that made us, you know yeah, yeah, the more frequent yeah, just deeper rooted are the others and a lot of times I would argue, or at least lend my opinion here, that like those three big things are underlying things that bubble that then create those small moments of nothing exactly it's if those are festering underneath the surface and unresolved and tension around, and then you're just like the little things make you snap, yeah, so okay, yeah, that's interesting number 10 all relationship conflicts can be resolved, true or false uh, I'm gonna say false.
Speaker 2:I I agree that you should work through things and, and you know, deal with stuff. But some things are best left alone. Some things you just accept about the person and be like you know what. I'm not trying to change them. This doesn't really affect me too much. It doesn't really affect my marriage too much. It's just a little quirky thing that they do and if you kind of feel like it's not that big of a deal, it's kind of like let a sleeping dog lie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it says exactly that. It's quite the opposite that all relationship conflicts cannot be resolved and most of them 69% of them are perpetual. What. That was like the reaction of a 12-year-old, or maybe a 14-year-old.
Speaker 2:I've had a pot of coffee today, so I'm just like but these conflicts are the little things that keep recurring.
Speaker 1:They're the things that require acceptance of personality differences. Yeah, exactly so that you stop letting them become conflicts exactly they don't need resolved, they don't need to be fixed or changed they just are things accept. Move on, focus on the big things, yeah manage the conflict, communicate about it so that it doesn't become some big resentment fest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, personal awareness personal space which I impede on a lot, your personal space well, I just think again, it's a difference in personality.
Speaker 1:I'm an only child, you know I I tend to get a little squirmy when I feel like my personal space is being invaded and you're I like hugs I'm like a cat, you're like a lab, you like hugs, you like to be not touchy-feely but like up in, up in the space a lot. And you know I don't I love you and I don't look at that as a negative thing. It's just sometimes there's this acceptance between the two of us that like I can't have that right now. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And communication about it. Yeah, and I'm not always great at communicating it very nicely. Sometimes I do snap still, because I'm human. Or sometimes your feelings get hurt because you're human, but in the overarching theme of things you understand like okay, we're just different in that area. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'm sure there are so many other little quirky things that people just accept and don't even think about in their marriages and with their spouse. I think the problem comes in when you start compromising who you are to appease the other person's quirkiness, like in a way that deteriorates who you are and causes resentment. Yeah's a problem in my humble opinion. Number 11, all relationship conflict is the same. It is equal. It can all be approached in the same way.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, are we keeping track of these, of how many I've gotten right? It's not about being right or wrong. Oh gosh, are we keeping track of these?
Speaker 1:of how many I've gotten right. It's not about being right or wrong. Honey, you're right, this is just for fun. Oh, you're right, this is just for conversation.
Speaker 2:Well, the answer is clearly false, because you've got to approach things differently. Things deserve to be handled.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the severity of things is not the same. So resolving the conflict of whose turn it is to do the dishes is a lot different than resolving the conflict of you didn't pay the bills and you've been hiding money from me. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It says some conflicts are deal breakers and for those issues, compromise can be very difficult yeah, and suggests that you are very clear and hold strong in what your non-negotiables are in a relationship. And I would challenge that as well, because I think sometimes we think we know what we would do, or we think we know what we want and what's non negotiable until we're faced with it. I'm all for being clear on your own boundaries and knowing what you feel about something, but I'm also all for being open to the idea that you can reserve the right to change your mind, because things may come up that you weren't expecting and that you said, if that ever happened, I can't recover from that.
Speaker 1:And then, in the moment, you press yourself and you find out that you can, in fact, keep going, yeah, and I would challenge that because I think it goes back to that marriage isn't just a piece of paper contract yeah if people were a little bit more open to the idea that maybe I can be a little more fluid and growing and learning with this person and evolving emotionally, you know, it might not be treated like just a piece of paper you can throw away when shit gets hard because shit gets hard. Yeah, last but not least, combat compatibility. I just made up a new word. Is that a word?
Speaker 2:I don so.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not the word I was going for anyway, so the word that it was supposed to be is compatibility. Okay. Is what makes relationships work, true or false?
Speaker 2:I would say, that's true.
Speaker 1:Gottman Institute says false, that diversity makes relationships interesting, that we are not looking for our clones yeah opposites attract. We find let's see what's it say exactly pheromones we find most sexy are from people most genetically different from us isn't that weird interesting so it's a primitive thing of like chemistry, keeping the population gene pool mixed, mixed up, good so.
Speaker 1:So that's so funny wow agreeability and conscientiousness are the characteristics that people really mean when they talk about compatibility. And it says these qualities are indexed by a person being able to say things like good point or that's interesting. You might be right yeah during a disagreement, but that it's not necessarily what makes a relationship work yeah that's a good one, because I would agree 100 with with that answer.
Speaker 2:But yeah but the key being knowing that you're going to be attracted to someone that's different than you in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1:So working on that communication is what's really the key to a successful partnership yeah, I suppose, if you approach it that way, like I love this person, I care about them tremendously. But there are things that they are completely opposite of me of yeah, and I can't handle it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like it's obviously it's like a successful business, like you get a marketing team and a sales team and a operations and finance team and they need to be able to communicate together yeah or marketing is going to go blow all their money at the golf outing, you know, and accounting is going to be like what the hell? We don't have any sales to. We don't have any money to count because we don't have any sales. You know what I mean. Like both sides need each other desperately to thrive and survive.
Speaker 1:And counterbalance each other.
Speaker 2:And a marriage is no different. I mean, you can't both be marketing people. You know I'm just a horrible example but, you get the idea.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, there. There are many times when I mean we are very much alike, we enjoy the same interests, yeah, but there are many times when you present a completely different perspective than me. That sometimes slash a lot of times makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable, angry, my ego comes in, I'm annoyed. But they're necessary because otherwise I might make dangerous decisions. Yeah. You know you help me see things that I wouldn't otherwise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, looking at it is like I appreciate the differences and I'm not annoyed by it. Yeah, you know the differences and not I'm not annoyed by it. Yeah, you know. But in the beginning it was like why don't you see things my way? That doesn't make sense to me. You're my wife. Why aren't you agreeing with me about this, you know? And you're looking at me like yeah dumb ass. Why don't you see it this way, you know? Yeah, your version. You had more sass in my I don't.
Speaker 1:That's not fair I know that's not fair. No, I was kidding, it's true yeah I was totally playing like the victim, but you're 100 right it was way more sass on my side of the table.
Speaker 3:So biggest takeaways relationships, take work yes, period the end, good night, so biggest takeaways Relationships take work.
Speaker 1:Yes, period, the end, good night. Conflicts are inevitable, but they aren't the end. All be all. They aren't the enemy. Communication saves relationships, therapy saves relationships, proactive approaches to both of those save relationships. Those are mine, what are yours?
Speaker 2:Uh, communication is number one. Expectations Number two Mm hmm, work, mm.
Speaker 1:Hmm, not just, it's a piece of paper.
Speaker 2:And now we're married, so I'm your wife, whatever the whatever you want to do.
Speaker 1:just let me know. It's like it's a piece of paper and now we're married, so I'm your wife, whatever the whatever you want to do just let me know.
Speaker 2:It's like, it's kind of like it's not the destination, it's just when the work begins, you know there are plenty of people who have successful happy functioning relationships without that piece of paper, you know, and without therapy? Sure, you know, it's not like. This is something that everyone has to do and you're a turd if you don't.
Speaker 1:if you don't, you know and on that note, you know we've overcome a lot of big things and therapy has been a major part of that. We don't know what lies in the future and no one ever does so. Knowing that that's available to help you navigate is so important. Yeah. Communication, hard work, therapy. You don't have to know how to do it all and get it all right. You actually have to be open to knowing that you don't know how to do it all. Yeah. Isn't that kind of the conundrum?
Speaker 2:Perhaps I might be wrong.
Speaker 1:Or you might be right, or I might be be wrong, or you might be right, or maybe.
Speaker 2:Well, I just want to say thank you for listening, because it means a lot to us. We're very dedicated to showing up every wednesday, especially you, and today was a really cool episode, because these are all things that are helpful, relatable, and Bill, our tailless Manx cat, has been watching us the whole time over there.
Speaker 1:He's taking notes. Yeah, you know what I find most interesting and then I'll close it down and this isn't really about us, it's just more of an overarching thing that I think about. It's very meaningful to me when I receive messages from people who say, like gosh, you never know who you're helping. Thank you so much for doing this episode or mentioning this on that episode. A lot of times some of the stuff we talk about is just we've gotten so used to it being what we do or how we live or what we've learned and sharing it to help other people that you forget. But then that kind of recenters the focus for me, and I always am able to get more out of what I think I already know or what I've already shared with someone by them pointing out that it made an impact on them. And.
Speaker 1:I guess where I was going with that is that like conversations like today that are just kind of calm and just here's some information, let's chat through it yeah I mean that's what we do, I mean that's who we are yeah but sometimes it's easier to receive listening to two normal people who aren't experts yeah talk about it, who just share what they've been through.
Speaker 1:As it pertains to this information, then it is an expert. It can soften the pressure or the stress associated with feeling judged or like you're not doing it right by hearing other people talk about it and give you the courage, then, to seek out the expert or the therapist. That's huge.
Speaker 1:And so you're right. It is very important to us and we enjoy it so much and we're so grateful for you being here as the listener. And, at the end of the day, if nothing else, that is always the goal To give you the tools and the courage to empower you to go make these choices for yourself. Yeah, it's not to be right. It's not to educate you to go make these choices for yourself. It's not to be right. It's not to educate you. It's not to say the way we're doing it is foolproof or we're never going to mess up Because we are and we do.
Speaker 1:It's important to me, especially as my book is getting ready to be, released soon the reset button. For those of you who don't know, I'm releasing a book in May of 2025. It's important for me to say that because I, in this platform it can feel, uh like come across that you know everything and I just certainly don't claim to so this to me was like a very calm and refreshing conversation, just to kind of revisit all these bullet points and yeah yeah, this is like the meat and taters of a healthy relationship. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel like like these, these truths, that can we just agree on these 12 things? Cause if we can just agree that these are, like the pillars of the therapy's not bad. Yeah that you know, it's all about communicating, like if we could just start here and be like that. We've been through this personally and and we've been on it on both sides of the coin yeah, these are true to us.
Speaker 1:We've been through it a couple times where maybe at first we didn't yeah understand the rules of engagement and then it just perpetuated and how that felt right and how it feels to understand these, you know it's like oh okay, and what you said was huge.
Speaker 2:It's all about permission. One person gave me permission to go to therapy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it was like wow, someone that I respected that said I'm going to therapy and it's really helping me. Here's their number and it was like thank you, yeah, and I've into therapy and it's really helping me. Here's their number and it was like thank you, yeah, and I've paid that forward many times to people, but you too. So that's again why this is so awesome for us to be able to do this, because it's powerful yeah, and so we appreciate you being here, whether it's your first time or you're here every week.
Speaker 1:sometimes the topics may not feel like they relate to you, but it's meant to meet you where you are and to help in ways that might offer a new perspective, either from me or from Greg. Sometimes we don't always have the same perspective, which is also what keeps this dynamic interesting, so thank you so much for being here. New episodes every Wednesday.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1:Until next time.
