Minding the Gaps
Minding the Gaps
Yes, and....
In Episode Two Heather tries to recreate an experiment from her favorite podcast Armchair Expert by inviting her husband Erik to the show as her first guest. Let us know how you think it went (Dax Shepard and Kristin Bell ain't got nothing on us).
Listen in as Heather and Erik speak candidly about rest and society, theater as a platform for teaching self-compassion, the importance of trust and connection, Improv as a model for coping with uncertainty, creating mindful moments through our daily choices, nature, art, creative spaces, the power of giving and the magic of Yes, And.
If you are enjoying Minding the Gaps: Finding Magic in Life's Messy Middle please follow, share and download!
End of year stress got you down? Join us next week for a mini-sode where Heather will explore her Holiday Thrive Guide and the 5 components of: saying no, creating sacred space, being present, remembering that everything is temporary (especially uncomfortable emotions), and treasuring this time as an opportunity for rest and renewal.
Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
Rest Is Resistance: A Manifesto by Tricia Hersey
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/19/1129907651/improv-can-build-confidence-heres-how-to-apply-it-to-your-everyday-life
Improv Wisdom: Don't Prepare, Just Show Up by Patricia Ryan Madson
Sun Walker World on Facebook
Melver Art on Instagram and Facebook
Minding the gaps: Finding the Magic in Life's Messy Middle is an affiliate of Minding the Gaps Coaching and Mindfulmess LLC.
Please explore Heather's website at https://minding-the-gaps.org/.
Good. It's good to see you.
Erik:I know. So good. fun that we get to be in other rooms in our own house together. Exactly.
Heather:Precisely. sometimes the way that life, that's the way life works in marriage, I think.
Erik:Yeah. Well, I think it's kind of important to have your own space, you know, have, have a place that you can kind of call your own, but you know, you still, it, it, it's all shared space in a way, but having your own space too is kind of important in a relationship. I think we do that. We
Heather:do. It's made a huge difference for me converting annika's room, sorry, Annika into an office. Um, it's, it's really up my productivity just to feel like I have a workspace that's separate from my workspace. Used to be in our living room or in my, in our bedroom. Mm. Um, and so it's nice just to kind of have that dedicated space that when I'm there, I'm working. That's
Erik:right. And then you can go back to your room and relax that room. Exactly. Or about relaxation and not about work.
Heather:Yeah. So important. Yeah. To today I was feeling. Well, the last couple days I, I've been feeling a little bit tired and I just felt like I needed to go lay down and rest this afternoon, and I did and I was able to leave my office to do it and then know I could come back down here later tonight to record this. So that's kind of cool. Do, do
Erik:you take naps every day?
Heather:No, I used to. I used to take naps every day for many hours. Um, but I haven't taken a nap in a couple weeks.
Erik:Yeah, I can't remember the last time I, I took a nap. I I like to sleep in on the weekends, and, and not try and rush the morning. That's, that's really, uh, luxurious time. It feels like a luxury to. And it feels deserved after going all week long. Mm-hmm. I feel like I'm getting enough sleep at night. I mean, sleeping is, is really, really important,, for you to feel any kind of health or especially longevity. I think sleep is probably one of the most important things.
Heather:Yeah, for sure. Well, I can tell you, I'm reading, I just started reading a book right now and I'm hosting a book club, on December 30th for people who are interested in reading it and, having a discussion about it called Rest is, resistance A manifesto. Mm. And it's, I'm just, just getting into it so I can't speak to it too much, but it's, around this idea that, Rest is sort of anti-capitalist, anti-white supremacy movement. And we've all been sold that hustle and grit and, you know, all of that is, well not grit, but, um, hustle and grind. That's the word I wanted, um, are what makes successful people, but maybe it's part of what's wrong with our
Erik:culture. Yeah. And that, it's really interesting what Covid taught us too, about how much you can get. By also finding time for yourself, you know? Mm-hmm. in the midst of everything when we were separated. I think that that really kind of shed a light on that in a different way that didn't, kind of took us, caught a lot of us off guard. Took me off guard as far as what. Is expected with regards to work and how much work, how much work you really get done in a given day. Even when you go all day long, how much work is actually getting done, you know, and how much of it is you kind of pacing around the, the, the stuff that you really need, which is relationships with people and, maybe hanging out at the water cooler or, grabbing a coffee with somebody just to catch up, you know, that stuff happens at work and in a work envi an environment and that's, it's valuable. But as far as the actual work getting done, I think that most of us can get our work done at home.
Heather:Okay. So let's get down to business. Can you, tell us a little bit about your life and how. It aligns with that sort of idea of seeing change as an opportunity?
Erik:Yeah. You know, I, I find that, uh, when it comes to thinking about how we go about just our daily lives, uh, it's so nice to have a job. You can get up and go to seven to four, and then it's so nice to know when dinner's gonna be and it's so nice to, you know, have a plan for dinner and all these things that you plan, but I find that every day there's always gonna be. Something that falls through the cracks or is a little messy. So this idea of minding a gap or finding something, um, that, that happens to all of us isn't something that just happens in life. I think that this is something that really is about if you're present, if you're really present with your daily grind, if you will, um, you'll. That every day is an improvisation in a way. Even when you have a strict plan or that you have, you know where things are supposed to be, there's always gonna be a moment where you have to decide to go left or go right? And in that moment, if you get stressed out, or if you have, if you find there's a pattern in how you approach those decisions, and it can be as small as just, once I park my car in a certain spot, you know, am I gonna go directly to my office or am I gonna stop by and pick up some water on my way? I think it's really important that you just stay present. Where you're walking and what you're doing in the moment, and trust that, every day can be special and find those special moments that say, okay, I'm, I, I am present right now. I am in this moment. And yeah, you know what, what feels good right now is I'm gonna go get that. I'm gonna go get, I'm gonna go fill up my water. I'm gonna go and get a moment for myself and like for myself as a teacher. I had this moment today, I think it was in between two periods where I I, I was just coming from a digital arts class. I had to cross the entire school to get back to my drama classroom. And I decided to just, instead of going down the, the regular hallway, the fastest way to my room, I decided, I literally thought this through. You know what? I'm gonna go a different way. I'm gonna go through the courtyard and outside, catch a little bit of blue sky on my way to this next thing that I'm gonna do, and just fill myself up with that little moment and, and make it purposeful. Mm-hmm. and then go on about my. Because when you're in between those things, if you can change up something that is expected and make the unexpected, pleasurable and special, that is a trick that we all have at our disposal and people should use more often. And just that little thing felt so good. And then I was able to actually, I ran into some people that I don't normally see as I cross through the hallways and they saw me and we said, we had said hello to each other. I got a fist bump from an administrator that I don't normally get cause I don't go that way. But he was on his grind RO walk, and we saw each other and we got to have that moment. And I just recognized in that moment, You know how cool that was and, and, and then really finding all of those throughout the day. There's, there's literally dozens of those probably that could happen. Yeah. And which one do you pick? You know, which one do you pick to make special? I
Heather:love that idea of these daily opportunities Where being present can, shape our experience for the day. I love that. I've been focusing a lot on, the idea of big changes and the reality is when you break everything down, it's just about. Little, little shifts and, um, and being present. So that's, that's awesome. I love that you opened up a new way, for me to think about the way that I'm thinking about, change in daily practices,, in my business. So thank you. Um, Yeah. So you mentioned improv, you're a drama teacher. Mm-hmm. and you come from, a theater background both academically and professionally and just as a passion,, tell. A little bit more about how theater might fit into either the change paradigm or, this idea of being present.
Erik:Yeah. you know, I got started in theater when I was in high school. Went all the way through college, got my double major in music and theater. Um, directing and acting and then also music composition and the, all of that training really gets to a lot of that training gets back to getting close to your, your instrument, which is your body, and also getting close to your breath and your Heart rate. you can always come back to those automatic things that we have, uh, to get through. Anything that you're going through, even stressful, the most stressful times. the reason that they give you all this training, especially when I got to grad school, and was learning to be a professionally trained actor at that level, they really focused a lot on that mindfulness to. Your, your instrument and, and, and taking care of yourself. And then also redirecting the energy flow that comes from those automatic things into what we do on a daily basis. And it still, it takes conscious effort. And even after all that training, I still have to, on a daily basis, remind myself, if I'm not present with the, that, that basic training around, finding my center and getting back to, the core of me when I'm feeling stressed, then everything feels a little bit off. But your question was with regards to, how theater, has impacted my. You know, I had my, my training while it was in theater, scripted theater and doing a lot of work on stage with scripts. I got my start in New York, producing improv theater, long form improv where you would learn instead of a script, you learn a form, a way of telling a story, and all of the actors are on board with following the form. the layout of how a story is going to unfold, not knowing what the specifics are going in those develop, and then you become very attuned to, okay, we know that we're in part A of the story. We need to get to part B. How can we, as we listen, we watch all the action on the stage, and then we participate as a collaborative. Performers to make the A, B, C D E connection as we go through. And sometimes it works, and then there are times where it doesn't work spectacularly, and in either case, it's still being present in that way with the people that you're with and the trust that you have. What you remember from that, and this is what I kind of take from it, and this is the connection I'm trying to make to answer your question, it's really the quality of people that you're with and with the trust that you have, that even when it goes poorly, that you'll still be loved. You'll still be, someone that you'll want to hang out with and that you'll hang out with each other and you'll come back and you'll, you'll try again. And there were many times, uh, you know, when I was producing this, this theater, I didn't have a lot of money and none of the actors that. I, I had in my troop and none of us were being paid. We came to do it to get the experience, and I was, maxing out credit cards to get the rehearsal spaces to produce it. But the people that I was in that T troop with, I'm still connected with after all these years. On social media and on Marco Polo, I could reach out to them and it would be just like, no time has passed if I were to meet these people in the street, because that's how, that's how deep that trust was and how special that time was. People re recognize how unusual that thing is, and I think that theater brings with it the expectation that you are doing something Remark. That people are going to come and watch you do something remarkable. That's why you're there in the first place, cuz you don't go watch unremarkable stories. You always go remark, watch things that are amazing happen, and then be able to tell the story that we all experienced it together. So, if you just look at that, think of all of the things that we do in our regular lives that are remark. That people would write off as, Hmm. Just kind of day to day. It's kind of just normal, right? There are little times that we have in our lives every day that are remarkable, and if we can learn to appreciate those, I think theater's taught me that. Mm-hmm. my, my work with improvisation has made me a better person to, you know, say hello and give fist bumps in the hallways.. You know, and then with my students, I'm improvising with my students all the time, but then also really celebrate the thing when things go well. It's wonderful, but be able to say at the end of the day, you know, it's okay when it is messy because we can go back, look at the tape and say, how can we not make it as messy next time? And that's what makes you spectacular in the end, is being able to. I
Heather:just love that so much, that self-compassion piece of, even though I messed up, I'm still loved, even though I, forgot a line, I'm still worthy. That's right. I trust I'm connected. I'm a good person. That level of trust. While,, on one hand can feel like a big risk, there's also a big payoff because that gift of, self-worth and compassion is priceless. yeah. When you think about teaching teenagers this lesson, when they're kind of in this space of not wanting to be different and feeling a little awkward and they don't quite. Fit in their bodies the way they used to. How do you see this translate to your work, with teens?
Erik:You know, it's really interesting. There seems to be a cutoff point. I teach sixth grade through ninth graders and, there seems to be a adult chip. That comes on board in the middle of our seventh grade year. That tends to grow and metastasize as a part of our biological being. That makes the choices that we're making as performers on stage a little bit more hard to grapple with because your biology is telling you don't stand out. Be like the rest of the crowd, don't. Set yourself apart because you wanna fit in so that you will be a part of what the group is doing and be accepted to that group. Mm-hmm. and theater is often asking you to cry. To laugh outrageously to do stupid and ridiculous things and then you're asking kids to play these characters and to make these choices on stage that are uncomfortable because everything about what you're doing on stage is the opposite of what they're trying to do in real life, which is just to fit. So the way that I unlock that is, first off, I'm so lucky if I get to start with these students in sixth grade, because once they have had the sixth grade experience, sixth graders, you'll tell them, uh, okay, you're gonna be a squirrel right now and you're going to be in a tree and there's gonna be a, you are gonna play a dog and you're gonna be barking. They'll do it. They'll do that ridiculous thing. Mm-hmm. they. And they'll have a good time doing, and everyone will laugh and it'll just, we'll just, you know, I, I could do a better dog than that, Mr. Mel. Okay, well, let's see your dog, Bobby. Get up there, and then he does it. And now, while we're all barking and all that kind of stuff, try that with eighth graders. No. No. Everyone's looking at each other like, you want me to be a what? And I'm gonna be in what, what place you want me to? No. Well, yeah. And, and the way that we get around that is the first thing that we do in the classes. We, we learn an emotion sheet that has a list starts with happy, sad, excited, frustrated, mellow, and it goes all the way down to disgusted and sick. So there's 25 emotions that we just practice for warmup. Mm-hmm. I have them write down the, the movement, the gesture that goes with. Emotion and then the sound. They have to define the sound that is that without there being any words attached, no English, no French, no German, no Arabic. Mm-hmm you, you just, it's gotta be a nonsense sound with a gesture that looks happy, for example. And then we do that as a group. Everybody's performing at once. There's nobody on stage by themselves looking at a group, looking back at them. You don't get that in the first three weeks of the class. Mm-hmm. And the reason for that is that we want the new norm to be that we are in this together, that we're collaborating. We're making these ridiculous choices together. Mm-hmm. and together. It's okay. In this space to do those ridiculous things. Mm-hmm. it only takes. And this is, I've worked with, you know, uh, third graders all the way up to adults on this. It really only takes about a half an hour to feel comfortable. And then once you have set that, that standard, that normal, every time you get together, you just embrace it again. And you mm-hmm. you make that a part of your, your practice, um, of, of doing the work. And it, it's not hard, but it, it is learned.
Heather:Well, and I think it really gets them out of their heads and into their bodies and, connected to that place in themselves again, that, we all, teenagers and adults alike can really get caught up in our heads. There was an interesting article and radio story and NPR this week that I sent you. That was looking at, improv and the skills you learn in improv as a life skill for managing. change and uncertainty in our lives. What do you think about that?
Erik:Well, the first rule of improv when you go to any improv training is yes, and to be able to say yes to something, and then you add you, you go to the next thing. So you have to accept what's being given to you at any given moment in an improv scene, if you say, To what's being done to you. That's called blocking, and we want to try and avoid blocking as much as possible. You need to start by just listing and validating them. And say, yes, I hear what you're saying. And if you start with yes. You automatically, are sending a signal to your partner or to this person who you're working with, that their stake at the table and what they have is as valuable as your own. There's another book that I shared with you called Improv Wisdom and the whole philosophy is about taking, it's, it's the wisdom of improv applied to life. Yeah. And she goes through the, the 10 main things that are in improv theater and Yes. And is the first chapter
Heather:Very cool. Mm-hmm. and it's such a powerful word. I've been. Adopting it in my own life too. I've been trying, every time I catch myself about to say the word, but I change it to ants. That's so key and. Basically makes the first part of whatever I said yes. You know, whatever the first statement was. And instead of saying, but yes, this, but this, I say, and this, and it's really helped me make a shift to, in my thinking, to accepting the fact that two opposites can exist at the same time. Um, correct and be equally true and have equal value. So it's power language is so powerful. Mm.
Erik:Yeah. and just the validation part of it, being able to be in the same mm-hmm. even when you disagree, being able to just hold a moment. Mm-hmm. just acknowledge that even though there may be, we might not agree on everything, we still are sharing this space
Heather:well, before we run outta time, I wanna ask you about two to use your words. Remarkable. Changes that I have seen you make over our last few years together. I just looked it up on Facebook, 430 days ago, you made a big change in your life. What did you
Erik:do? Tonight I went for my 430th walk outside and, I have not had any breaks for 430 days. I have gone outside. I have walked to find the sun and take a picture. And I usually take a video as well, and I publish it to keep myself accountable. Right. I put it up there on a, I've got a Sun Walker World website on Facebook, so you can come find me. Are you okay if we link that? You can link it, yeah. Yeah. I was talking with my friend Steve, who's one of my friends from graduate school. Mm-hmm. and I was in New York with him. He's an actor there and he's also a personal trainer. And, we were talking about something health wise. It was October, no, September 29th of last year. And, uh, I was eating pring. Sitting in my bed after work complaining about something that was kind of bothering me about work. And he just looked at me and he says, dude, you need to go for a walk. and I, maybe, maybe some. Tough love is what's needed here. And Melver. You need to get out and you need to put that Pringles can down and you just need to just go for a walk. If you're feeling stressed about stuff, just try. so I did and I went and it felt okay and then I went and took a picture of the sun that day and brought it back and looked at it. And then I went the next day and it just felt good getting back into that place that I had learned with Steve in graduate school about being present with yourself. Mm-hmm. and I started to recognize, Some are just the very basics of just becoming aware again, of what I'm putting in my body, what I'm consuming, and then finding that moment to be with myself. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then I just didn't stop. And then it became like, can I get to 200 days or a hundred days? I got to hundred days. Could I get to 200 days? I got to 200. Can I do the full year 365 possible? Nailed it and. It just is a moment in my day whether I am at the mall hanging out with you and the girls, or grocery shopping or whatever, a frantic thing that I have to do. Having that moment that is just that I, I have to go catch, and it's just me taking a picture with the sun. That's it. That's the game. There's something about the structure of that. It's such little thing, but it's so powerful in that if I miss it, I will have missed the most important part of my day, and it wasn't important to start with. Mm-hmm. grew to
Heather:that. Yeah. It's become a mindful moment
Erik:for you. It's huge. Yeah. Mm-hmm. and it's, there's two times where I'm just like, uh, gotta. Mm-hmm. But then, you know, you just make that your five minute clock. you don't need to go out for 45 minutes every day. Just make sure you catch the sun. Yeah. Sun's with you every day. And some days I take, you've seen the pictures where I've just taken me. It's me loud. There it is.
Heather:Wait till we go back to the states for winter.
Erik:Doing it three o'clock in the afternoon, waiting where the sun should be. A big, dark cloud rain. Right.
Heather:Yeah. Ridiculous. Well, it is. I mean, walking is considered meditation and if, if we, if we do it properly, we can be very mindful when we walk. And being in nature, is a great way to be present and develop a gratitude practice. It's just been really fabulous to watch and I think, quite a few people are coming along with you on your journey joining your Facebook group. Yeah, because. To find, a connection in that moment with the sun, wherever they are in the world.
Erik:Yeah. And the fact that it, there's nothing else being sold there. It's no, please just post pictures of the sun where you are. Cause we're all one humanity underneath this sun. That's sky. Mm-hmm. It's, it's gonna be what it is. Yeah. And if as long as you're doing. You're doing something for yourself and you've got other people like you out there. It just feels good to know that there's other ridiculous people doing ridiculous things like taking that moment just for yourself. Totally.
Heather:Totally. Um, the other thing I wanted to talk about was, I don't even know how many years it's been now,, you started. Painting.
Erik:Yeah. You know, this painting project to me is taken on as you know, and you are so patient. I I, I just wanna acknowledge, for those of you that aren't in house right now, our front room is a, that converts to a paint station in the middle of the front part of our house. I'll take a picture, and the fact that I have a partner that allows me to have that open pretty much seven days a week when we don't have regular guests. I had to close it down when we have guests once in a while, and that's fine, but the fact that you've allowed me to have that gift. I started painting to see what 10,000 hours looks like. I wanted to test the theory of starting something and going for 10,000 hours without any formal training. Getting all the stuff that I needed from YouTube and online and just see how far I could take it.
Heather:And that's Malcolm Gladwell, the 10,000 hour
Erik:theory. he quoted it, it was in the point of the book that I read, but I, I think that he was actually, he had heard that as well. And he, he stands by the fact that yes, there was very clear evidence that 10,000 hours is what it takes to master anything. And I got to, after going for about 7,000 hours and working for about seven years after my job on weekends, just doing it when I was able to do it and not pressuring myself and all that kind of stuff. But just staying diligent with it. I was already in 10 countries at that point, selling paintings for a couple hundred all the way up to a thousand dollars a piece. And when I recognized after I reached 10,000 hours, the impact of that, I decided to pivot and to make it, a charity. So giving away 80% of what I make on a given painting to. To combat this human suffering in the world, to be able to tell the story. Art can change something. Art changed me as a person, and I now have this skill that I still don't know. I, I, I love doing it, but I don't have any formal training and that drives some formal painters crazy. When they hear that, they're like, well, then how can you teach an art? Well, you spend enough, enough hours doing it. I've got the basics down right. But at the same time, I'm doing this just like going for the sun. I'm doing that mindful exercise for me. And it was something that, that, that job of painting allowed me to be close to our girls and close to you through some of the toughest, uh, medical times of our lives that we've had, and still be. right? Mm-hmm. I didn't have to leave or go do theater somewhere, somewhere else. I could have done that. But this was an art, something that I could do that allowed me to be close, and to be present, through those times as a family. And I'm just so grateful for it. It grounds me now in a way to, I hope that I can find time after retire. where that's what I'll do full time. And if, if we can get to there as soon as possible, that'd be great, but not force it. We're just gonna go with the flow of life. Yes. Make sure that we're staying present because it's all transition, right? I feel like every day I'm ready for anything and as long as I'm painting a little bit in the week and catching my son every day. Everything else falls where it's gonna fall.
Heather:Well, it's been a gift to watch and, I joke about it, but I tell you, I love having that creative space in the center of our home we have our piano there and your art station, and the girls have all sorts of craft things there. And when I get on a, oh, I'm gonna be crafty bandwagon, I'll come, I come join in the space. Usually I'm just sitting there reading. But, uh, but I love that we have that space and that it makes our home a, a place where it's. Okay. To be creative and try things and not have to be perfect, you
Erik:know? Yeah. and it's all we see in that space is unfinished work. Mm-hmm. Mm. That, that's, that's really all a workspace is, is unfinished work. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And what I, one thing I love about, one of my favorite quotes about paintings is how do you know if a painting is done? Well, paintings are never finished. They're only abandoned, or the artist die. And, um, there's something really profound about that. We are all an unfinished painting in our own way. if we, we acknowledge the parts of ourselves that still could use a little work or a few brush strokes here and there that you look at the parts of the painting that you like, keep those, and then mm-hmm. carefully brush out the parts that you wanna change. it takes daily effort. you have to be mindful of that. You have to learn to see that, but it's not hard to do. Mm-hmm. And it makes me appreciate so much more all of the people that are around me that I'm grateful for and for the things that I have I don't really wish for much. But I'll tell you, I'm grateful for the stuff. I'm able to share with my family and with my friends and my patrons around the world that get it and. I'm able to give that money and know that this work is being done so people can find homes that don't have homes. Mm-hmm. get outta the way of bullets and politics and disaster.
Heather:Right. So you are supporting, With your funds? where are you setting
Erik:those? Yeah. I've chosen to go with the, United Nations high Commission for Refugees. It's the U N H C R and it's the one that everyone knows about. And if anything,, my work is about pointing people in that direction so that they. and that they recognize that this is a problem that is affecting 84 million people that are on the record. We know that the number's way more than that.
Heather:Yeah. Yeah. It's December 5th. Do you know offhand how many. I don't know what do you count it in? Tents?
Erik:Oh. as of right now, I will be at 24 tents for refugees this year, which is a new, um, milestone. It's a new record for my personal, giving. I love it. it feels so good to be able to not just read on my social feed about the problems, but be able to say, here's something that I did. And if people don't agree with U N H C R, whatever, what are you doing? You know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm doing something. So it's what I can do in my little space. It's my little, my my bubble that I'm in. Yeah. Trying to make a difference, so,
Heather:yeah and you do. You do. One closing question for you. Okay. And is, it's kind of improv friendly, I think. so if you could recommend one sort of metaphorical thing to pack, so if somebody's going on a journey of change or transition, and you could recommend one thing for them to bring along with them. That would help them on their journey. What would you suggest?
Erik:Stay open to saying,, yes. I guess we'll just, just leave it with that. I think that that's the main takeaway. Say yes more than no Mm-hmm. you gotta do it in a safe space. Right. Cause you know, sure. You get out there in the world, it's a big, burly world. Right. But at the same time, if you're in a transition. I would just say, find the positivity in the moment that you're in, and embrace it by saying, yes, I am here. Yes, I'm in this moment. Yes, this feels uncomfortable. And and then say, and and finish the sentence, yes, I'm here. And you get to fill in that blank. It's pretty powerful.
Heather:Very powerful. Thank you so much for doing this for Yeah, it was fun being my first guest. It was fun. You're my beta guest,
Erik:Well, I love you honey. Thank you for, I love you that I do. And yeah, it to get watch you go through this transition of starting all this off and, and I just know you're gonna be helping a lot of people find their way. You're kinda like the flashlight and that's so, that's so cool that you get to be the flashlight. You're a flashlight for me in, in a lot of my life, so I'm lucky to have you as a partner. Thank you honey.
Heather:Thanks so much for being on the show today.
