The Everyday Mystic

The Art of Discarding: Navigating the Inner Mountain of Leadership w/ George Thompson

• Corissa Saint Laurent • Episode 129

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0:00 | 30:59

Corissa sits down with filmmaker and educator George Thompson to explore the profound shift from doing to being. They discuss George’s journey from university anxiety to studying Tai Chi and Taoism in the Wudang Mountains of China, and how to practicalize ancient wisdom to resolve modern leadership bottlenecks.

George Thompson is the founder of Balance is Possible!— a 15-person team on a mission to inspire balance for people and planet. His films and teachings have touched over 25 million people and he is supported by renowned changemakers including the late Dr. Jane Goodall, Louie Schwartzberg, Tara Brach, Stephen Fry and many more.

Once plagued by anxiety and a sense of disconnection, George’s journey led him from pain to purpose. With playful kindness, George helps people to do the same and awaken their potential. 

Key Takeaways:

  • The Inner Mountain View: Gaining perspective above the valleys of reactivity.
  • Unlearning vs. Accumulation: Why leadership in the new era requires daily discarding.
  • The Life Evaluator: How to relate to the internal voice of judgment.
  • Wu Wei in Business: Making high-stakes decisions through effortless intuitive action.

Notable Quotes:

"For most people, the body is a vehicle to move the brain between meetings."

"Learning the Tao is a process of discarding... until all that's left is effortless, spontaneous being."

"The journey is not from here to there, but from there where we think we should be, to here—the life that is here."

Connect with George:

☯ Join Master Gu’s FREE 4-week Taoist Wellness Course 👉 

Connect with Corissa:

If this conversation awoke or inspired something in you, please consider leaving us a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review to help us reach more people. 

Thanks for tuning in!

George Thompson

It started in pain and anxiety and confusion, that will undermine in my mind a little part of myself that would really give me pain. I just finished university and said, Oh, you're still single, you've not many friends, and you're now anxious, you're pathetic and weak for being anxious. I was in that old paradigm of I am my story, this is who I am. I didn't realize how to relate to that voice. But that was really the start of the journey. Deep anxiety and shame about that anxiety, I knew something had to change.

Corissa Saint Laurent

Welcome to the Everyday Mystic, where we explore the intersection between human ambition and spiritual truth, helping you master the flow in life and in business. I'm your host, Carissa St. Lawrence. Join me in welcoming our guest, George Thompson. He's a filmmaker, a storyteller, and an educator. Truly a master in being able to practicalize. Is that a word? I don't know, but it sounds good. To be able to take ancient wisdom that he learned through his extensive studies in the Wudang Mountains of China and bring it home for people to really make it practical in everyone's everyday life. And you know that's what we're all about here on The Everyday Mystic is to take these ancient teachings, this spiritual wisdom, this mystical understanding of life itself, and bring it into your modern life so that you can face the issues that we come here to face, things like anxiety, meaninglessness, disconnection, all of the fun that were thrown here in this lifetime. George and I have a beautiful conversation about his own journey from his pain, the pain that led him to going to the Wudang Mountains in the first place, to all of the things that he has learned and gleaned through his studies and not only the studies, but the action that he's taken in his own life through those studies. So we talk a lot about not just learning things, but actually putting the learning into action. And George is a beautiful example. You're gonna love the conversation. You're gonna love all the tips and wisdom and insight that you'll gain from this. So sit back, relax, and enjoy. Hey, George, so lovely to have you on The Everyday Mystic. Thank you for joining us.

George Thompson

Absolutely. Privilege to be here.

Corissa Saint Laurent

I watched your documentary, The Art of Losing Yourself. And in it, you know, there was so much beautiful wisdom, so much incredible insight about how we get to a point in our lives where the self we think we are is not who we really are. And the losing of that self is this beautiful journey. So you wrote and did this documentary based on your own personal experience. I'd love to hear more about that experience. What was it that got you to the place of having that wisdom and being a voice in this space? What was the inciting incident, if you will, for you?

George Thompson

I kind of see myself like many people in the West where I started, where we're disembodied. In the words of Ken Robinson, for most people, the body is a vehicle to move the brain between meetings. So we identify with that little voice in our heads, like my name's George, and I'm flawed in various ways. And I was born in Bristol, and I love vegan brownies. It's one of my love languages. You know, there's these stories that I create and create a narrative of who I am. And so then to lose myself and to be nobody, that little thinking voice can be quite scary. And it's like, wait, are you wanting to me to die? There's gonna be nothing left of you. And the beautiful journey that I've been on and you've been on, and and such a simple journey, really, that has been going for thousands of years is to break out of that story and to see what's left of us when we rest, not just in the thinking mind, but to rest in presence and to lose ourselves. And for me, the inciting incident started in pain and anxiety and confusion. I had a little underminer in my mind, a little part of myself that would really give me pain. I just finished university and said, Oh, you're still single, you've got many friends, and you're now anxious, you're pathetic and weak for being anxious. And I didn't know how to relate to that voice. I was in that old paradigm of, you know, I am my story, this is who I am. I didn't realize how to relate to that voice. That was really the start of the journey. Deep anxiety and shame about that anxiety, snoozing on life, feeling sick and unable to enter into the world, but I knew something had to change.

Corissa Saint Laurent

You answered the voice, which not everybody does. You know, that those voices are strong in, I think, every single one of our heads, especially when you come to a point of where you know that this can't be all that there is. And I, for you after university, I think that's a very common one, is the quarter life crisis. It's common in midlife, and it can be common at these very milestone moments, but not everybody listens. Not everybody takes action, not everybody does something. But this podcast is all about giving people the tools and the wisdom, the insight to take action on those intuitive hits, wiser voice that's over there in the background. You can kind of hear the whisper of it. So the whisper of it sent you on quite a journey. Where'd you go? What'd you learn?

George Thompson

Firstly, hearing the voice of wisdom. And then a secondly is actually taking action upon what that voice says. Because it's like you can know what the right thing is to do for a long time and then ignore it. For all of us in our journey, it takes some courage to step outside the security of the status quo. And even if that status quo is painful, at least you know we're still alive, we're still breathing. So for the nervous system and the heart and mind, it wants to make shortcuts, keep us safe. Okay, well, you're hurting, but you're safe. And so it does take energy and courage to leap into the unknown and to listen and heed to those wiser voices that are saying change is possible, balance is possible. So for me, I was the clueless, really 22-year-olds, and I had watched the monks doing backflips at university, and I thought, hey, I want to go strengthen myself since I'm now struggling, and I thought maybe Kung Fu would be good for me. So I traveled to the Wudang Mountains, which is where Wudang Kung Fu and Wudang Tai Chi were born, an amazing collection of temples and monasteries and kung fu schools, Tai Chi schools, all on top of a mountain. And I arrived at Purple Cloud Temple, courtyard, swirly ruse, monk sweeping the floor. I go up to her and say, Nihau, Kung Fu. She shoes me away, she just doesn't understand what I'm talking about. I go to another monk, she's carrying tea, and I say, Nihau, Kung Fu. What can I learn with you? And she just shoes me away. It turns out I'd done my research badly. It was not a Kung Fu monastery, but an academic, female-only, Taoist monastery, and I just turned up some clueless British guy, really not knowing what he was doing. But the flow of the universe took me to not a Kung Fu monastery nor a Kung Fu school, but a Tai Chi school with the Master Master Gu, ponytail, goatee, great big joyful smile, playing the guitar and singing Chinese opera to the mountain. And there was something about his energy that really called to me. Something about Tai Chi, which is so beautiful, Taoist philosophy and meditation. And really we were so blessed that I found these solutions. You know, we've been hurting for thousands of years, and human beings have been coming up with ideas and practices to help reduce that suffering. And at the age of 22, I found some of these really powerful ideas that have since transformed my life.

Corissa Saint Laurent

And you took a big, pretty big, bold move on your kung fu turn tai chi journey. Some people might just go to the local kung fu studio in their town. I love that you went big. And that's amazing. And you know, not everyone has to go big. You know, anyone listening right now who's thinking, oh shit, I can't go to China or I can't leave my life and go on this big retreat, this silent meditation, or whatever it is on the other side of the world. And just know that you don't have to. And I know that you would agree with this, George, because you've built out from all your learnings and your wisdom and the insights you've gained, a beautiful platform for people to come and even just through watching a video of yours, or whether they do end up going on a retreat or getting your coaching, it's it's a way in. All things are possible. All paths are laid out and ready for us. It doesn't need to be the big leap. It could be the, hey, watch this video and gain something. And that's what I love about your documentaries, is that they're not just, oh, watch this, me in this beautiful settings, which they are, there is that. But then inserted within them are lessons, tips, advice, practices that people can actually do. And so it's very active. It's not just this passive, oh, let me just listen to this guy who has a nice voice talk about his experience. Um, so the activities are really important. The taking action, not just reading a book and learning this thing, but then going out and doing something with it, wouldn't you say?

George Thompson

Totally. Yeah, I really love that. And yeah, the world feels quite chaotic and out of balance right now, and a lot of us are feeling that. And we also live in a really exciting time where we have access to these teachings from all around the world, you know, the best teachers. And you know, like we run Taoist Wellness Online, which is now the biggest Tai Chi school in the world. And now Master Gu has so much of his teachings just available for anyone online. Some of my most powerful guides have been, you know, books that I've read or a meditation course. Like I'm doing a course with Adi Shanti at the moment, and it's been very, very deep for me. I think there is a power to the retreat and to go into silence. And it can be by yourself and just being in nature and to just to see what's left of me as I step back. But it doesn't need to be the big, faraway, fancy thing. It can be, yeah, the everyday simple, like two hours in the park and sit quietly and see what comes up for you. And really the journey, the spiritual journey is not one from here to there. Here's where we are, there's where we should be, enlightened and spiritual. The journey's from there where we think we should be to here, the life that is here.

Corissa Saint Laurent

And that journey is paved with an emptying, isn't it? An emptying or the losing of the ego self or the self that you think is you to that true center, that higher self, if we if we want to call it that.

George Thompson

Yeah, and the Tao de Jing learning is normally a process of accumulation, Laoza talks about, but learning the Tao is a process of discarding, daily discarding, discarding, and discarding until all that's left is effortless, spontaneous being.

Corissa Saint Laurent

Yeah. And that's where, you know, as you said, a retreat or a profound place can really help that along because there's so much distraction around us where that pulls our attention and also reminds us of who we think we are. Just like you said, the, you know, the vegan brownie place that's calling you down the corner because it's right there, you know, these things that then remind us of our stories rather than just getting into that place of where we can't and we don't see anything else but a reflection of our truth. So, yes, going to those the Wudan Mountains or a place where you can, in the most way for you at this stage of your journey, lose yourself is really beautiful. So, what are some of the ways then that for someone who's a city boy like you, coming from a place where they're maybe surrounded by their stories and their distraction, what are some of the ways that you might guide somebody just in those baby steps to start to lose themselves, but maybe not in the the same big bold way that you did?

George Thompson

One of the most famous lines from the Tao Dajing, the foundational text of Taoism, is a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. Or a tree wider than a man's embrace started as a single seat. So those micro steps. Like, how do you do big things? You don't do big things, you focus on the small, and that's how then you achieve the big. So one of my mantras is don't make your practice so big that you don't do it. And even five breaths a day. If you do five breaths a day, first thing in the morning, you wake up, five kind, slow, mindful breaths. So simple, yet so transformative. Because what we're cultivating is a presence, an energy for life, not just something that yeah, we do a retreat and then just don't practice and we don't enter into that presence again. It's that cultivation of compassionate, spacious awareness in more and more moments. And that's the compassion as well. It's like the meditation masters, they find that compassion, spacious awareness in almost every moment. And then for mere mortals like you and I, and yeah, it could be weeks before we find that spacious compassionate awareness. And then with practice and and progress, it's maybe days, and then maybe hours, and then maybe minutes, and then maybe seconds. And then that still that judgment can come up. So say, Randas, for example, he said, before all of this work I've done, I was self-absorbed, judgmental, and self-obsessed. Now after 20 years of meditation and prayer, I'm self-absorbed, judgmental, and self-obsessed. But the difference is that now that I hold this in such a bigger space, these rising thoughts are like moats of dust floating in an open sky.

Corissa Saint Laurent

That's beautiful. Yes, it is about changing perspective, right? We talk about the zooming out, and that sounds very much what like you're describing is that we gain through the experience of entering into these new spaces. It's it's a really, I would describe it as a another level of consciousness that we're entering into these new levels or experiences of consciousness to get to a place of where our experience then of life, whether it's the drinking of your tea or the walk or the fight with your partner, is different. It's just different because now we have a wider, uh, newer, uh, expanded perspective on it all. And I know that you just let out a new documentary all about consciousness. Would you say that your experience of your own expanding consciousness or whatever word you might use of that has given you new perspective, has given you a perspective that allows you, as you mentioned with Ram Das saying, it doesn't change you, but it just changes your experience of you and everything else.

George Thompson

Yes, perspective is such a beautiful word. And in the subtle art of losing yourself, I talk about the inner mountain view. So mountains, we gain perspective, we're higher, we see more. The inner mountain view is that internal place of perspective where previously we may have been lost in the valleys of reactivity and blame. We take a breath, we pause, open up into more spaciousness. Then we find our power and our freedom to choose. And we have responsibility, the ability to choose our response. So that really is the whole journey. Like spaciousness is the journey. And the the content of our experience may not change. So yeah, it may be still, you know, the underminer still sometimes comes if I'm tired and and you know I'm still single, and this is something that I'm stepping into now in a season of more connection. But that there's a part of me I called the life evaluator who's got a clipboard from birth to death at George, still single, still financially insecure. You really should be here by now. I still have those thoughts, but I can love those thoughts now. Because I can love that part. It's like I really know that you want my life to be meaningful and nourishing. But these judgmental thoughts about me lacking are not really serving either of us. So, you know, I got you, and my life is already meaningful. And from that place of presence, I can be the loving father and loving parent to my internal world. And I can only access that love and compassion if I have the spaciousness to choose.

Corissa Saint Laurent

And the practices are what allow you to gain that spaciousness, right? Because what you're talking about, some people might call the inner child work or um internal family systems work, parts work, of where they're gaining that fatherly, motherly position over those inner wounded parts. Dealing in a therapeutic way with those parts is beautiful. And you're also talking about being able to gain this through the practice of presence, not just, okay, you've got to go into a therapy session and do you know years of therapy to deal with this. You're talking about settling into a place of where you yourself have gained the wisdom, the compassion through pure presence. So let's talk a little bit more about how we get into that pure presence, how we get into a state of woohey, if we want to bring that into it, of where we are emptying ourselves enough to be in that flow, to then just allow.

George Thompson

Yeah, and that's what modern therapeutic approaches miss, because okay, you can do all of this work, but if you don't have the seat of awareness, the presence and consciousness that already contains all of the experience, every thought, every sensation, every emotion has all arisen within consciousness. And if we don't know how to connect with that presence and consciousness, then we're stuck in the content of consciousness instead of the context of hey, I'm a human being, complex, and this is all arising in my awareness. I talk about awareness having two qualities, witnessing and wisdom. Witnessing and wisdom. So if we through our presence practices, we more and more open up to be the sky of awareness within which the contents of experience arise and pass. And the more we can open up into that spaciousness, then our wisdom crystallizes and coalesces into thoughts or into just an embodied movement into okay, this is the skillful action coming from this place of spacious awareness. To make that more practical, an example, maybe yeah, that nurturing of of a part, like previously, okay, we're in reactivity and you know you're not good enough, whatever the story is. Take a breath, open up into spaciousness, and then maybe a thought of just here is just okay. Or maybe it's just being in that presence just for its own sake. Cool. I can allow that thought to go. As Drongza says, thoughts are like mushrooms springing from the dark earth. They come and go day after day, night after night. Where do they all come from? I don't know. Even if I had 10,000 lifetimes, I wouldn't be able to work it out. Let them be. Let them be. So that word allowing that you used. Okay, this is part of the content of my experience. Could I allow it to be as it is? Without resisting, without fighting. And like the water in a jar, if we shake it around, all the muds and the particulates they stay busy and blended with the water, it's only with the stillness that we allow the mud to settle and we see clearly.

Corissa Saint Laurent

Getting into that place of seeing clearly feels sometimes like a big profound, like, aha. And sometimes it can be very subtle. Can you describe a moment for you where in your stillness you've you finally got it? That this was where you needed to be in order to truly see.

George Thompson

Yeah, an example from last week. So I've just started a master's at UCL in global prosperity. My mission is to inspire balance for people and planet through the films and teachings that I share. And I am passionate about system change because our meditation practices are so important and so beautiful for us to feel nourished. But you know, if we live in economic and political systems that are destroying life, then it's going to be hard for us to find peace. So I want to advocate for those systems in the films that I share. But then I'm also leading a team, and finances are very tight and Monday and Tuesday last week was I was overwhelmed. I was dis dysregulated starting a master's, expecting myself to do 20 hours a week of that while also struggling to pay my 11 team members and you know, say they're four family members each, 40 family members. And so that is the the waves continue. So, you know, I was I was overwhelmed. I'm like, cool, I haven't been this overwhelmed for a while. Like this is I'm dysregulated right now. And it got to, you know, okay, embracing where I am, listening to the signals. Okay, I've taken on too much, but what needs to move? And, you know, what where am I gonna get money from? And then by the Thursday, I was sitting in my meditation, struggling. Like, what's the decision? The answer just came. It's like, okay, I'm gonna do the masters module by module, maybe over three years, five years, not gonna do it over two. I I'm gonna reconfigure some stuff in the team. And literally just was like, okay, this is it. And so if I didn't have that space to really allow the intuitive intelligence, which encompasses the thinking mind, but draws on a lot more than what the rational cognitive mind can do by itself. Eventually the answer is like the toast popping from the toaster is like ding, here you go. Here's your idea and your clarity. Yeah, really protecting your emptiness, protecting your emptiness, because that emptiness is nurturing, soothing, it's a friend, it's a refuge, it's creative. And if we protect it, then it can really support us to lead our lives more skillfully.

Corissa Saint Laurent

And it's so wise. It really does have all the answers for us, or we have all the answers for us. They're available. It's just getting into a place of being able to receive it. And the quieting of the mind is which we would call meditation, is the way for so many people. Now, I know you do a lot of sitting meditation, but Tai Chi is very much a moving meditation. Let's talk about meditation more because everyone has their own conception of what it is. Some people are very afraid of it. A lot of people feel like they can't do it. So, what are some things that you could recommend to people to get into meditation, get into the meditative losing of the mind when they don't think they can do it?

George Thompson

Yeah, and it's funny how the thinking mind works. Because like if I say I'm not good at meditating, that becomes your affirmation. I'm not good at meditating, I'm not good at meditating, which then creates your reality of agitation. Because there is an expectation and a story being told of what meditation should be. And I really know that feeling. I remember when I first started my journey, I've been three months on the mountain. I was meditating on a rock with Master Gu. And from the outside, you know, I'm wearing the Tai Chi robes and next to my Tai Chi master on a rock on top of a literally a giant valley. And I, you know, look the part, but then on the inside, I am fantasizing about the tofu rice meal that's waiting for me back at home. I'm cold and hungry and complaining and then beating myself up for thinking. And then yeah, I was like, I've been meditating for three months now. Like, what why is my brain still so active? My brain's too active. I can't do this. Uh I'm not made out for meditation. Yeah, so I hope you know maybe people can relate to that. It's like it's okay to the thinking mind when it does doesn't really understand what meditation is and create agitation around how I should be right now. And should is a beautiful word because should is the world of judgment. Just if you notice the word should, okay, cool. I'm judging myself. It's a nice little signal to to go to what's beneath the judgment. Because for me, what is meditation? Meditation is the practice of steadying our awareness and embracing the present moment. Steadying and embracing. So it's as simply it's just watching the breath, coming in and out. You may be there for five seconds, then you're off in thought. Notice, come back, notice, come back. It's the process of returning. It's not about silencing the mind, it's about returning. And over time we develop that muscle of awareness. And then the the word spaciousness again. So we come from that a little bit more focused awareness and then the embracing of all that's here, the total content of experience, all thoughts, all experiences, all emotions, not resisting or judging any of it. And that can be challenging, but over time, as we do that, we soften the internal battle and we really, really then learn that there is a way to silence the mind and to to actually find stillness. And I even four years ago I didn't believe that still. It's like, okay, meditations helped me a lot. But now I've trained my awareness now where I can drop in to resting, just in pure awareness without thought. And sure, you know, maybe I'm there for a minute or two minutes. I have an active mind and I've learned to love that. And that is really the accessible meditation that is possible. If if the silence comes, it's great, but that's not an expectation because then that creates agitation. It's about embracing what's here and returning when we get lost and embrace.

Corissa Saint Laurent

Thank you so much for beautifully describing that. That it's a very step-by-step process, not uh, oh, I'm gonna decide to meditate and now I'm going to boop, no mind. That you have that process of noticing and returning, and and thank you for beautifully describing that. And then there's persistence in there in order for someone not to give up at that point of intrusions and agitations, persistence, discipline, we could call it, or are really important too, and non-judgment, because we can beat ourselves up for not being the good meditator or the why isn't this working for me? I'm no good at this. The voice comes back. And yet the thing that we need to do is just continue on the path with all of the agitation, with all of the judgments, with all of the self-hatred, all just bring it with you. It's okay, right? It's not about trying to shun these things or get rid of them. It's like bring them along and allow them to be part of the journey and then just see what happens. And that to me is just a beautiful description of compassion, self-compassion that we get to. What are some final thoughts that you might have, George, for people today? It could be how they might get started on their journey or might get pushed along or goaded on their journey. It might be just a point of wisdom or something that's coming through for you that you wish to share. We'll have all the links to the ways that people can connect to you, your platform, and the beautiful work that you're putting out in the world through your documentaries and videos. All those links will be in the show notes. But what final word would you like to leave for people?

George Thompson

Well, I really appreciate you and yeah, your joy and your funny, and the spiritual journey takes us to more likeness. And yeah, my favorite teachers have a great sense of humor. So I appreciate you. And films and retreats and all the good stuff if you want to follow more with me. Compassion, like it's such a beautiful place to finish on because that is really for me the core of all of this work. It's the embracing of the life that's here. And there's a beautiful move in Qigong and Tai Chi called tree trunk hugging, and it's an embrace, it's like hugging a great big beautiful tree in your midst, and often inviting a smile on the face as we do that. It's a beautiful practice. And sometimes we can think the spiritual journey is one of transcendence and ascending to the spiritual realm, which is above, or perfection, which is above, and leads to an escape or a bypass of disembodiment, the challenge of anxiety and depression and grief and loss and sorrow and all of it. And what I love about the embrace and the tree trunk hugging and the ideas of compassion is that really the journey, again, is not from here to there, here where I am, there where I should be, but from there where I think I should be to hear the life that is here. Can we welcome ourselves where we are? All parts, all emotions, all challenge, all joy, and in that embrace we can find freedom.