Empowering Sheepdogs: A Journey To Healing & Growth

Healing Heroes: The Impact of Sheepdog Assistance with David Nathanson

Join us as host Travis welcomes back David Nathanson, also known as Nate, from Sheepdog Impact Assistance. In this episode, Nate shares the inspiring work of Sheepdog Impact Assistance aimed at empowering veterans and first responders through outdoor adventures, mental wellness programs, and disaster response missions. Learn about their unique Sheepdog University and Heroes Ranch, and how their programs help individuals heal and thrive. Dive into discussions on the importance of asking for help, the role of leadership in mental health, and the long-term impact of these initiatives. Tune in to understand how healing is facilitated through community, action, and support.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:14 Guest Introduction: David Nathanson
00:50 Sheepdog Impact Assistance Overview
01:37 Outdoor Adventures for Veterans and First Responders
02:45 Warrior Path Program
03:18 Disaster Response Missions
04:39 Sheepdog University and Training
06:27 Mental Health and Leadership
25:50 Resources and Contact Information
34:53 Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts

Transcript

I'm Travis. Good to have you with us here on all clear. Got a returning friend of the show. We've got Mr. David Nathanson and we're going to call you Nate. What's happening, my friend hadn't seen you in a while. And boy, you've been up to a lot. Why don't you tell us what's going on and maybe introduce yourself to those folks that don't know you. 

Oh, thank you. And first and 

foremost, really honored to be back. Love the conversation. And back and reviewed what we talked about so important and so impactful what you do. And so thanks for having me back. And happy new year, merry Christmas and whatever for everybody listening yourself. So you're right.

I've been busy and was able to join an amazing organization that's headquarters of Rogers Arkansas, but is a national organization that focuses on veterans and first responders. It's called Sheepdog Impact Assistance. It truly is an organization that exists to empower our sheepdogs, using the term from David Grossman's book, The Protectors of the Flock, to really encourage them to get off the couch, to get involved, to stay involved, to take care of themselves, and to, quite possibly, the best version of themselves, now, tomorrow, forever.

We do that through three pillars, and these pillars are really important how they're executed, but they don't have to be executed in sequence. The get off the couch pillar is what we call our outdoor adventures. We take men and women who are first responders and veterans and we take them all over the country.

And we get them back against their brothers and sisters, we get them doing some pretty amazing things. So if you think about it, we've probably done it. Skydiving, scuba diving, surfing in Hawaii. We do snowmobile riding in Yellowstone. We do freelonking. We do razor riding, horseback riding. You think it, we do it.

And the intention is to, again, get them together with the folks maybe that they've lost touch with.  After maybe leaving the service or just get them away from the day in day out grind of serving their communities and get them around like minded people to help them, reconnect to rest and to start to identify maybe some challenges in their mental wellness.

We start to introduce the themes of post traumatic growth. Through, delivery of nightly modules, but we're very gentle about it. And the hope is we light a fire in their, their minds to, to want to do more to address maybe some mental wellness challenges, which segues into our next program, which you and I spoke about at length last podcast, and that's our warrior path program, progressive alternative training for healthy heroes.

That's the 90 day immersive mental wellness program. Seven days on the ranch. We have a 70 acre ranch. in Jane, Missouri, that we bring our heroes to. It is purpose built and it is set up to facilitate healing. It is set up to help men and women deal with the trauma that they've experienced,  to understand it, and then to start to struggle well, knowing that they've experienced it, and then we move them into that world of post traumatic growth.

And the most exciting thing that we do is our disaster response missions. And this is the critical piece. That you and I talked a little bit about last time, and that's how do we sustain that that change? How do we sustain that post traumatic run? So our disaster response missions, it's how we actually started, and it's one of the things that we continue to do.

We deploy men and women all over the country to respond to natural disasters. And we get in there, and first and foremost, we aim towards the first responders families and homes that are impacted, but those men and women can't take care of their homes because they're taking care of their communities. We go in there, we tarp barriers, we remove trees, we bring fresh water, we bring supplies, we bring hope.

And the second aim point would be any veterans in those communities, and we go in and we try to do those same thing to help the community start to, to recover. Sometimes, showing up and showing that you care is enough to help a community rebound quicker. And the interesting thing that I've learned is, When we deploy actually helping is healing for us.

So we continue to feel purposeful. We continue to feel that we have a mission. We continue to do those things to help us heal and take a step back and realize that there's, there's a lot more going on in life than maybe that episode of trauma you asked the question. So what am I doing there?

We established sheepdog university earlier this year. It is a center of excellence that orients policy of doctrine and procedures. It trains the next generation of sheepdogs to be able to deliver these gifts, the outdoor adventures, the warrior path and the disaster response mission. And it just makes sure that we are self sustaining into the future because this requirement to heal our nation's sheepdogs is going to continue  in perpetuity.

And we just want to be around to, to meet that demand. The university orients on getting Men and women that are in Arkansas, but everywhere else in the country to get them to think and act locally, then the personal and professional skills to go out and help the organization to be seen, to be heard, to generate resources.

And then most importantly, we look to deliver these programs locally so that we can reach more and be efficient about things.  

So it, boy, that's a lot to unpack right there. But I'm going to roll back to, to, I'm going to be self serving here for a minute, North Carolina, where I'm at. You were here not too long ago when Helene basically bulldozed the Western part of our state.

And I know you said that part of what you guys do, you physically help, you cut trees and you do stuff like that, but you also are caring for the mental wellbeing of the first responders that are there. Dealing with that. And I know that I'm in Concord. So I'm about an hour away from where all that was going two hours to some parts of it, but we were deploying teams out to help from our department.

I didn't go myself. I was asked, but I just didn't have the place to be able to do it, but I did talk to quite a few of the guys that came back and there was a lot of stuff that was reported on the news. There was a lot of really horrific things that they were seeing, they were encountering. 

And in fact, it moved us to actually do a, do an episode on mental health during deployment to specifically deal with that. And I know that there, there was such a focus on how are these people coming back when they come back to, whatever.  Are you there in, are they okay? And I know that was something that was very unique in this deployment as opposed to other times when we've dealt with stuff like that. 

Yeah, no, absolutely. So we did deploy within days, the hurricane. Moving away we went, Southeast of Asheville. We headquartered out of a fire station in North Carolina, and we worked back into those hollers and tried to reach the folks that were not  getting services or support because of where they were located, nobody wanted to deny them.

It's just, we were literally on razors in four wheel drive, bringing supplies and bringing men and women in to, to help them respond to recover. It's interesting that you asked about the, what does it do? What toll does it take after incident? And, I got to thinking about this the minute, almost the minute I got there, because one of the things I worried about going into that environment was pulling back.

And four were some of the trauma that I experienced active duty when we went into places like the Philippines, went into Haiti to deal with these natural disasters. And I would tell you that some of the trauma I experienced in those settings probably was worse than what I experienced in combat. You expected to see such things in combat.

I don't think I was fully prepared for what I saw in these disaster response missions. So I started thinking about what it was going to do. I will tell you what I observed in our group, and our group was about 70 strong, and there was an equal mix of veterans and first responders, and we had a lot of first responders who were not wearing the uniform anymore, and some that were, still wearing the uniform come out and help out.

What I observed was helping is healing.  In the moment, it was very rewarding personally. It was very healing and cathartic for us to help a community that was in need. What I can't answer to you is what those long term impacts and ramifications. And so one of the things we are looking at the university is what is the long term impact of these disaster response missions we execute?

I would tell you the good news. Because we're an organization is  focused on justice as a response. We rolled it with the awareness and knowledge of both warrior path and world of post traumatic growth. And we made sure that every day we were reaching into that kit, if you will, and bringing forward those training pieces to guard against folks becoming casualties while we were responding.

So every night we were gracious, and gratitude. expressing our gratitude for things. We talked about our wins of the day. We talked about self care. We were encouraging folks to step aside and to process, maybe to meditate, maybe to do a breathing exercise. We were encouraging folks to, to understand the impact of what they were doing and really tried to be, a shield, if you will, against re injuring some of these women.

What you hit on is very important. I think there's probably some smart folks studying long term impacts, but I will tell you for me personally, for the men and women that with us and for the people that we helped,  I stand by and we'll double down on the term that helping is healing  really did a lot of us.

So good to get out and to do something like that for the community that needed it. So desperately,  

It's interesting There's a another couple of podcasters. I know out in Western, North Carolina And they're not in the fire service, but in their podcasts, they made the comment that everything that happened out there Is a generational event, it's one of those things that  we've never seen it and we'll probably never see it again, at least in mine, in your lifetime, maybe my son's possibly, hopefully not.

But with that happening, we don't know how long it's going to take to undo some of this. And it's the same for the trauma that's seen, but it's good to know that there was forward movement and you saw healing happening with that  outside of the disaster relief and different things like that.  When we talk about that getting back into your regular life, I know we talked about that a little bit last time, but I think maybe you've got a little different perspective on it now that you're working with the Sheepdog University and things like that, and your group.

What?  What is the most important thing? If somebody comes and goes through one of your programs, whether it be Warrior Path or whatever the case is,  what is the most important thing to happen? I know you talk, you remember you talking about trust the process. You used to have that on the wall at one of your places.

Trust the system. I know that's one thing.  What do we have to trust when we get beyond, being in that bubble of protection and it's time to go back out? And do our thing. How do we stay healthy?  

Again, it starts with trusting that process. It starts with having trust to the men and the women to your left and your right who went through that program, and then it's trying to sustain that trust with the larger community that is sheep dog impact assistance.

Again, speaking specifically to us the other piece is, you and I talked about never allowing folks to feel like it was a catch and release environment where they came in, they got some training, they felt good for a short period of time, and then they just push off to the side to, to deal with their own devices.

And if they backslid, they backslid. I'm excited about what we do. Our approach is again, we get them in the organization and we get them involved and then we keep them coming back. And so while you can only do warrior path once, there's no limit on how many outdoor ventures you sign up for and go on, and there's no limit to how many disaster response missions that you can sign up for and go and support.

And that to me is exciting because it sustains that change because these men and women start to create a new tribe of folks who they have disclosed their trauma, they have healed,  they have shared, they have, laughed, they have cried, they have done a bunch of things with these men and women. And instead of feeling like when they redeploy home or they leave that safe environment that they're alone, they keep seeing these men because this community of action and community of interest just continues to come together for these things. 

I would say that. That's one of the ways we sustain that trust in the process is, truly making sure folks understand that, no one will ever be left behind. And we encourage them to be involved, to stay involved. We, again, you and I, before the recording started, spoke about our gala.

We do an annual gala. We bring these men and women into the gala to celebrate their achievements and their accomplishments. We show them examples of folks who have gone above and beyond.  In serving their communities and have  pillars of a post traumatic growth, we celebrate them, we lift them up, and we do that to encourage folks to sustain that change, to stay anchored and believing that what we deliver to them is long lasting  community in their life to lift others up.

We celebrate those that have, emulated our principles of post traumatic growth, in, in.  Amazing ways. And we try to inspire the newcomers to the fold, if you will to sustain that transformation, to continue to be, the best possible versions of themselves. And we try to generate that trust by showing them examples of what it looks like to successfully transcend trauma, to struggle well, and to get back out there and be. 

So that's some of the ways we help folks stay continued or not help, not continue, but keep the trust alive that what we deliver to them in, our training is, it works, it'll continue to work, just believe in it and just continue to do the work.  

Yeah. And it's good that you are celebrating not so much the fact, Oh, Hey, you were broken or not necessarily broken.

There was a problem. You got help. Good for you.  But it goes beyond that. You were talking about they're re assimilating. They're going out and doing more good for the community and reattaching. And I was talking to a firefighter the other day that, he's had some pretty rough runs with his mental fitness  over the years.

And he said, the big problem I see everybody's well, I have PTSD, I've suffered. Okay. Okay. So you think you feel like you're broken? The thing is, you can't just sit there. You have to try to get back to where you were before. It's not just identify the problem, but it's making an effort to try to improve it.

And I think that's the key that we're starting to understand now when it comes to this side of the recovery.  

No, absolutely. And you're spot on by celebrating the successes of those who have experienced the trauma, who have recognized that they experienced trauma, who have done something about that trauma and have continued to live a life of purpose, of passion, of, impact.

By lifting them up and showing folks that are new to new on their journey that this works and you can be More amazing than you were before you experienced that trauma  I think there's something to that and it's wonderful to see an execution and it's an event that you know There's not really a dry eye in the house everybody is very emotional about it and you really just feel like Okay, here is how you prove to people that what we're offering works, because some of the men and women that we celebrate were as, I don't, just like you don't like the term broken, but they were as injured as you could ever imagine.

And you see them up there and you hear their stories of resilience. You hear their stories of personal growth. You hear. They're stories of demonstrating, a level of strength that is just eye watering. And then you start to realize, we're talking about all the things they did after they served, or after they might have been involved in a heroic incident.

To me,  if you can't get behind what we're trying to deliver, if you can't trust the process after seeing those men and women, then  maybe you need a higher level of care. But, more importantly, I think that Most people walk away going, wow that's incredible. I know I did. Last year, I was just, I was, I was crying like a baby because I was like, I cannot believe these men and women survived and they survived and went on to do just eye watering things after trauma. 

Yep. Survive and thrive. Those are the two things I think that we all try to get back to.  But, one of the things that our organization that we've talked about  over time, from a leadership perspective, there's two sides of it. Number one, how do you ask for help if you realize that you are having a problem?

How do you ask for help? Because, we're all big, tough guys. We don't cry. We don't have problems. We can do anything,  ask for help when we need it. So that's the first thing. And then also from a leadership perspective, how do you offer help when somebody asks for it? Those are two things that you're probably better geared for that than I am as a as someone who's more in touch with the mental health side of things.

But  if somebody comes to me, how do I help them? And how do I ask for help?  

Yeah, and with your permission, I'll answer. What would be easier for me, and that's how to offer help than it is to, than it is to how to ask for the help because it took me a really long time to ask for that help. And when I finally did, good Lord, I'm thankful that I did.

The most important thing a leader can do when they're offering help. First and foremost is to set conditions for a conversation to meet that person where they're at. Don't try to project an understanding of where they're at. Don't try to think that you fully understand what they're about to share with you.

And most importantly don't talk, just listen. And that's one of the hardest things for humans to do, particularly in this day and age, everybody wants to talk. The other thing for folks like you and I and everybody else who's probably listening to this podcast, there's a lot of apex alphas out there who want to solve problems.

And the minute somebody starts to disclose something, you immediately go into problem framing to try to understand the problem, and then you start to develop your courses of action to solve it. And you're trapped in this listening to solve instead of. Listening to understand and so my advice to folks who are leaders who are trying to offer help is don't talk, listen to understand, not to respond, and then create an environment of trust, and that sometimes is not easy for leaders, and the technique that I use is I disclose a little bit, but it's my turn to respond.

I disclose a little bit about The things that I experienced, and the moment in my life where I realized I was injured and that I needed help, and what it felt like for me, and how, when I looked to my left and my right and I asked for help, how many people were there ready to give it? And that's the thing that I think a leader needs to do, is to identify with the resources that are out there, to encourage, don't try to push, just encourage.

If they have personal experience with these programs, share a little bit of, personal perspective on it. And then just be there to be, a resource enabler. It's very difficult  for a leader who cares about their men and women to not immediately try to solve every problem they're confronted with, a little humility to understand there's probably some things that you're not ideally suited.

So again, awareness, create an environment of trust, a little bit of disclosure but most importantly, listen to what they're saying to you to understand what it is. They're trying to work through so that you can direct them in the right direction to your question about how do you ask for help?  That one it is hard for me because for most of my adult life I never asked for help never wanted help and didn't even realize I needed it I would say the best way to ask for help and starts by Looking in the mirror and realizing that, that you need some help and then understanding that the awareness is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of growth  and understanding that true courage, right?

We talked about this all the time in, the first responder world in the military world when we talk about, bravery is not a condition of no fear. Bravery is a condition of being afraid, but acting anyway. I remind folks that when you are asking for help, you, in my opinion, are demonstrating courage beyond, what is normally understood as true courage understanding you need help and asking for it is, to me, a definition of extreme courage because you've, you're afraid, you know you're afraid of judgment, you're afraid of shame, you're afraid of, personal or professional impacts of admitting that you have an injury.

Jet. You asked for the help anyway. So the ask me for help is again, look in the mirror, understand that you are injured and then understand that it takes extreme courage to ask for that help. And then the last piece is follow through with the decision to seek help. And there's, again there's nothing wrong with.

With trying to address your mental wellness, just like there's nothing wrong with looking at yourself from a physical fitness perspective and saying, I need to lose a little weight. I need to run a little bit more to go a little greater distance. I need to maybe do some more push ups or pull ups to create that upper body strength to be successful at work.

It's the same thing as far as I'm concerned, right? And I have some challenges in my mental wellness. I'm going to go do something about it. So I did directly answer your question because I think I shared with you on the last podcast, I didn't ever ask for help until somebody came to me and said, how are you?

And I gave them the standard brush off answer. And he stopped him in my tracks and he said no, Nate, how are you really? And then he proceeded to share with me that he discovered he was not okay  what he did about it. And he recommended that I at least consider it. And he sent me some links and some information.

And then he just sat back and watched me come to the realization that something needed to be done.  

Yeah. And I think that's a big part of leadership is knowing how to ask people, how are you doing today? Sometimes just. A few words can make a huge difference in how people  introspectively look at their own situation.

Yeah, I'll be the first to admit, I'll blow it off. Yeah, I'm good. Or am I, are you really good? And my boss will do that every now and then. And it'll make you think for a second. Yeah, there, there's a lot that I think we're going to continue to unpack over the next Several decades as we work toward understanding mental fitness and well being as we, vets, first responders, even had a friend of mine who's a building inspector that got deployed out to the western part of the state to assist in doing building determinations, what's safe, what isn't, and he said he was rattled a little bit when he came back and, we talked about it.

Granted, it's a whole different world than what happens here, but at the same time, all humans have to deal with this on some level, and it's good to see that you guys have so many cool things going on. So now with Sheepdog Impact, I know you guys have got a ton of stuff going on. Go to your website.

It's amazing. But I guess my question is what resources do you guys have available? Right now if somebody's listening to the podcast and they want to find out about Nate and Sheepdog University and Sheepdog Impact and all that fun stuff. What resources do you guys have out there right now?

I think the primary tool is what most folks use these days, right? That's a forward facing social media page. That's a website. Go there and check out what we've got going on. The resources are plenty in terms of opportunities to get off the couch to move into a world of post traumatic growth and to continue to serve.

We have, one of the things we're most proud of is we have a 70 acre ranch in Jane, Missouri that is purpose built. It is designed to create an environment for healing, for introspection. for trust and for post traumatic growth. And so that, that resource I think sets us apart from, some other organizations is we have a place where we can bring folks at no cost to themselves to really get after healing.

One of the things that we can do is We bring them there and nobody needs to know why they're there or what they're doing. Because we're a mountain reporting entity, they could just say I'm taking some vacation and they come out there and they can get an amazing experience, whether it's an outdoor adventure or participate in warrior path.

So Hero's Ranch is a huge resource as far as I'm concerned. It's unique. It's amazing. And you can't help but feel impacted by, your time there on the ranch. We have the things that we use to support. Our healing modules, there's highland coos running around it, which who can't look at a highland coo and not smile because they're like the most, cutest thing you've ever seen.

We've got horses to enable equine therapy. We allow our, veterans and first responders to interact with those animals to understand how to regulate themselves because the horse will tell very quickly if you are incongruent. So we've got horses and then we've got. Lodging facilities that are state of the art, we've got a yoga studio and we've got a lot of neat things that they could take advantage of.

Our programs, again, those are things that I would consider resources. They're unique amongst the community. And, we'll take veterans and first responders around this great country of ours to do some pretty amazing things. Snowmobiling in Yellowstone in the winter, surfing in Hawaii in, the spring and the summer.

We went to Mount Rushmore this year and we gave couples an opportunity to heal together. So unique amongst the community is, we recognize that it's not just the person who serves, who experiences the trauma, but that family member as well. And so we brought families, husbands and wives to, to Mount Rushmore to go through a outdoor adventure together to allow the family to understand, first and foremost, what do we mean when we say post traumatic growth?

What do we mean when we say struggling? What do we mean when we talk about, life with purpose and passion after maybe services over? So that again, I think that's a resource. We draw heavily from, the vet centers. We have a unique relationship with the vet centers that, that fund some of our programs.

I would encourage folks to take a peek at the website and just start clicking the links. There's just a wealth of information. What I'm hoping to stand up.  In the university  world is places where folks could go for information. So you talked about, how do you ask for help or how do you as a leader deliver help?

I'm working to create what I'm calling a toolkit, if you will, to help identify resources available and to identify, talking points, a conversation shell, if you will. to help have that power conversation. We did this for years in the military. We were confounded by the suicide epidemic.

And so we didn't know how to address it. So we created this leader's guide to talking about suicide.  Very soon we will have a leader's guide to talking about post traumatic stress, talking about what programs are out there. The leader's guide will also touch on some of the other things. that go hand in hand with post traumatic stress, that TBI, that traumatic brain injury, or maybe there's a dependency on alcohol, or other, behavior that is high risk.

We want to have resources up there for folks to be able to go and to use, to help others get that help. Those are some of the things that we try to make available to folks so that they can understand who we are, what we do, and more importantly, how to take advantage of what we do. 

Yeah, absolutely. And I know you guys are doing a ton of good stuff out there and it's awesome to see that it's not just a thing that happens in the South. Anybody, anywhere in this, in the country can benefit from it. And and it's also good that you're addressing leadership because sometimes if we don't have full buy in from the leadership of our organizations, whether it be the fire service or police department.

EMS, even the military,  there is not buy in on these topics, then it will never progress. But I think we're starting to see forward movement as a whole among, people that do crazy things in life. And we're getting there. And and it's because of people like you and organizations like Sheepdog it it helps us see that there's always opportunity for change and to get help.

David, what's the website if they want to go check you guys out?  

Yep Sheepdog S D I A dot org. Sheepdog Impact Assistance dot org. Encourage them to go take a look. There's lots going on there. And again take a look at us. We have Facebook, obviously Instagram. There's where we try to capture visually the impact that we're making on the community.

And there's always, something being shared. That's also where folks can go and take a look at the opportunities to get involved, we do fundraisers, we do, we just finished our Gauntlet of Gratitude, it was a 30, 30 day virtual physical challenge where we encourage folks to, to get out and walk, run, row, whatever, and again, raise some awareness, raise some, some resources, for the community so they can go take a look at that.

It'll be all over Instagram and Facebook. Really. It, again, it's, the need is so great and I think we're just starting to understand just the tip of the iceberg about how many folks, men and women, who have served have been impacted from trauma and we talked about it on our last podcast, they came to that service with childhood trauma, the service experience maybe accelerated or exacerbated that trauma and now you have a man or a woman who's returned to society  They're not sure where to do and where to go.

And so I would encourage folks to jump on the website.  There's lots of information on there. There's tons of people that you can get in contact with. Just like on the last podcast, I'll tell folks 24 hours a day. They can hit me up at my work email and I will get back to them. The men and women who are  supporting what we do are some of the most amazing men and women I've ever met in my life.

They are truly in this for all the right reasons as that is. To make sure that the  sheepdog of this country understand that, we appreciate what they went through, we appreciate who they are, and we truly want them to live a life of purpose and be the best possible version of themselves.

And you talked about surviving thrives, we are all about going beyond that normal baseline and helping them be the best possible version of themselves after. Again, encourage listeners, sdia. org Give us a check sign up, veterans, first responders, sign up.  Our programs are very unique, they're very impactful.

I can say that with confidence because I've gone through every single one of them and participated in a disaster response mission. Every one of them has made me, I believe, a better man, a better husband, a better father, a better grandfather, and I'd like to believe a better citizen in my own community.

And at the end of the day, that's what I think all of us are hoping for, is that better, Better communities, better states, a better United States yes, sir.  

With our podcast, we've got our tagline, and you'll always hear me say it at the end, Light your fire within, and that, that's our mission too.

We all need to improve, whether it be our physical conditioning, our mental conditioning, heck, it could be our finances, there's so many things we all need to improve on. But we have to light that fire to start it. And this is a good way to reach out and let people know that our mission is not so different than what you guys are doing.

But Nate, it's so awesome to have you with us today. Hopefully you'll come back again in the near future and regale us with more of your tales of surfing in Hawaii and all that fun stuff. But it ain't near as exciting here in Charlotte, but what can you do? But anyway.

It's good to talk to you. We'll have all your contact info in our show notes, but it's good to talk to you again, Nathan, and we'll talk to you later here from All Clear. Light your fire within.