The Lucent Perspective

Transforming Careers and Bridging the Digital Skills Gap with Loral Quinn, CEO of CodeClan

• Rebecca Hastings • Season 1 • Episode 11

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As a tech company founder or CEO, how many resources would you invest in the learning and development of your existing talents? Successful companies understand that investing in their teams' learning and development can lead to increased productivity, employee satisfaction, talent retention, and, ultimately, long-term business success.

I am delighted to share this episode with my special guest, Loral Quinn, as we cover the value of providing learning avenues for your talents. Loral is the CEO of CodeClan, a not-for-profit digital skills academy based in Edinburgh, Scotland. 

Loral and I discussed how their organization set up intensive learning boot camps to transform people’s careers and address the digital skill gap in Scotland. We also talked about how investing in upskilling of your team members can increase retention, promote gender equality, and bring a positive overall result for your organization.

  • [02:48] Loral shares how CodeClan is transforming people’s careers.
  • [05:09] How CodeClan engages within their industry.
  • [07:31] Describing the impact - how CodeClan bridges the digital skills gap.
  • [10:30] What inspired Loral to join CodeClan?
  • [13:22] Biggest barriers to attracting more women in the tech sector.
  • [20:13] What is the “On-Demand Program?”
  • [27:34] How to retain your talents: an approach that goes beyond salaries. 
  • [32:00] How to reach CodeClan, especially if you are thinking about shifting careers.

Rebecca Hastings, Founder and Director at The Lucent Group

Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hastingsrebecca/

Would you like to be a guest? Book a time to speak with Rebecca: https://calendly.com/rebeccahastings/discovery-call

The Lucent Group Ltd website - https://www.thelucentgroup.co.uk/

The Lucent Perspective website - https://thelucentperspective.com/

Rebecca has extensive talent and executive search experience supporting digital and technology businesses through complex changes and fast-paced scale-up periods. She works with businesses advising on C-level, technical, sales and commercial appointments, workforce planning, strategic talent management, recruitment processes and associated technology and employer brand development.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Welcome to the Listen perspective. I'm your host Rebecca Hastings. I've spent over a decade working with executives in the tech sector, and help successful companies build their leadership teams and scale. During my career, I've been lucky to have the privilege of learning from many exceptional leaders. In these conversations, you'll get perspectives from peers be inspired, and learn what it takes to become one of the best. This is your chance to listen to experts talking about the challenges, solutions, and the vital insights they've gained in their careers to date.

Unknown:

Whilst the UK tech job market is predicted to grow six times and be worth around 30 billion by 2025, there's only going to be one qualified woman for every 115 rolls unless something significant changes.

Rebecca Turnbull:

I am joined by Laurel Quinn, who recently became the chief executive at core cloud which is Scotland's first and only digital skills Academy. Before this, Laurel headed up digital strategy and insights at Aberdeen asset management, and then founded sustainably where she was also CEO sustainably was a FinTech for good to help customers donate to charity. It was Richard Branson's startup of the year in 2019. And at one FinTech for goods at the banking tech awards in 2020, in October 2022. So last year, Laurel joined CCO club where she's leaving the organization for a really exciting time. Morning, Rebecca,

Unknown:

great to be here.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Norman, thank you so much for joining us today, I'm really looking forward to discussing some of the ways that you're helping businesses address the skills gap, and build alternative pipelines for talent, particularly excited to have this conversation as the thing is just, it's not only valuable to leaders, but actually, anybody in talent that serious about having a sustainable, diverse, technical talent pipeline. And also anyone who's thinking about like switching careers, but doesn't really know how to go about that, because you have this huge investment moving into a new sector. So if you're listening to this, there's a good chance that you probably already work in a tech company. So be grateful if while you are thinking about it, you know, think about who could share this with the someone that you think would love to learn more about coding, but they don't really know how. So keep that in mind. Because obviously, if you're in the tech ecosystem, kind of know where to go. But if you're not there already, you don't often know about these things. Firstly, Laurel for those who are unfamiliar by code clan, or how it's evolved, tell me about what you and your team are doing just now.

Unknown:

Yeah, so as you mentioned, called clan of Scotland's not for profit digital skills bootcamp, and we transform people's careers and unlock opportunities for diverse talent through our immersive boot camps. We run professional software development and professional data analysis boot camps, to get new talent and to great companies. And that ongoing commitment to get diverse talent into the ecosystem faster and help companies be more successful has seen us place more than 2000 students into over 300 companies. And more recently, we've started upscaling people in companies. So we run short courses and bespoke training for businesses. And last year, we launched our youth academy for 16 to 24 year olds, which enables another kind of younger pipeline of talent to get into the into companies. Because obviously, having those technical skills will enable those companies to accelerate and innovate and be competitive and, you know, do all the great things that they want to do as well. And this year, we launched an emerging talent funds so that companies can sponsor students to our youth academy and immersive programs, one of the things we'll probably get to later is that we've, we're launching part time programs in the autumn that will enable people to access our curriculum in their own time. And that will really open a much broader audience of people who don't want to quit their jobs to come on campus or do a live remote program with us. So they will be able to continue to work or if they have caring responsibilities, etc. They'll be able to access our content and get into great jobs.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Actually, there's so much more the code cleaner doing than I thought, because the for example, there's someone who I worked with who went through core clan and she's now a software engineer in a bank. And it just is totally transformed things for her but I wasn't aware about the part time or the youth academy engagement side of things. But I think that there's a lot of stuff that companies have had of cold cloud, not just the people who are going through it and getting that fresh start in there. career or maybe upskilling or rescaling. So how are you engaging with industry,

Unknown:

we're speaking to companies at various stages, sizes sectors on a continual basis. So we'll bring companies in to speak to our students to talk about the opportunities available to work in those organizations, we'll bring back alumni from all those over 300 companies to tell our students about the the amazing journey they've had after graduating from code class. We have speed speed networking events, where we connect industry with our students, we run roundtable events, we've we've actually got a segment of industry coming in this morning, we do project showcases so the industry can connect with the graduates, you know, there's just there is a continuous program of engagement. And we work really closely with industry to make sure that our curriculum lines up with what they need. And in industry today, so kind of the sort of ongoing process of continuous engagement. And obviously, we see the success of our graduates going into those companies and kind of progressing really quite rapidly, because they are more mature. And graduates who come students who come to call clown are typically 25 year olds, up to 60 year olds, so they've had previous careers, they've got lots of transferable skills that they can, you know, take from whatever industry, it could have been manufacturing or hospitality or, you know, completely different sector, pretend education, for example, and they do our program and they take all those skills, you know, those customer service or other skills that they have from that industry, and they put them into the new organization. And that typically leads them to progress faster than students who are leaving university degrees, according to our customers, which is the employers, and we just have that level of maturity, and they really have a willingness to succeed. And we've taught them to learn how to learn. So again, they'll kind of be really comfortable coming in and picking up new frameworks and new languages and problem solving and all these amazing things that we teach them. So just want

Rebecca Turnbull:

to pick back up about something you said there about you create the courses around feedback from industry, what kinds of feedback are you getting from businesses, and you also do work with public sector around skills and what they are really leading just now for like in terms of talent to fill the gaps there?

Unknown:

Yeah, so our data analysis program is a really great example of what industry needs no, that's the hottest skill required. And we launched our data analysis program in 2019. And we're really building on that. So putting in more machine learning and AI into that program. And that is all based on requirements from industry. That's a great example. In our software course, we're kind of just developing as we go. So, you know, we take into account the feedback that we get from those partners that we're most engaged with, and we build it from there. So as a continual evolution, but you'll see changes to our programs coming up as a result of of what we're, you know, what we're learning from industry, and then, particularly in relation to the short courses, more data, more data science, different frameworks and languages and software, we're launching sustainability engineering, we have the content available, it's actually going live in the next couple of days. So, again, that's really important to industry to help them get on track to net zero. So we're very, very tapped into what industry needs because of the ongoing conversations that we have.

Rebecca Turnbull:

That's really fascinating. And I guess you've got like a level of agility that you can't necessarily have within a four year degree program that someone would typically go through where it's kind of mapped out from the start.

Unknown:

Absolutely, yeah, I mean, the the flexibility of the 16 week program, and the add ons that we can do. For example, the sustainability engineering program is a 3d fundamentals and techniques program. And our youth academy students will be accessing that content, our immersive students will be accessing that content when they leave code family not only have done the frameworks and languages from the core program, they've also done the add ons at the end. And it's very much we're moving to a lifelong learning program where you can do small programs that can cumulatively add up and you can continue to learn to code clan after you after you graduate. And if you're in your company, you can kind of continue to benefit.

Rebecca Turnbull:

So not only is that a little more flexible, but there's considerable value that you're getting over many years potentially.

Unknown:

Absolutely. And it really is that ongoing need to continuously learn you know, there's so many things that you can learn but we're not we're creating that program that if you do this, you can then do this and then you can do this and then you can have an entry level and then you can have add ons once you've done that, the immersive programs as well. Also, it's much more of an ongoing relationship that we have with the alumni, and also the companies that they're going into.

Rebecca Turnbull:

And going back to you, though, it's a bit of a career change for you as well. Because with your background, so many tech companies that have jumped to the chance to have someone like you on board, obviously, cook ends, like, great organization, but as a bit of a career shift, what was it that inspired you to join them?

Unknown:

For me, it's all about the ability to have a positive impact. And when I say up sustainably, I was on the track to kind of creating this tech for good product, now called clan, I'm helping people create Tech for Good products, hence why the kind of launch of sustainability engineering has really kind of been at the forefront of how can we get more students participating in Tech for Good, you know, we've just recently being engaged, signed an agreement with SEF tech so that we can help those companies and those companies as well are solving really big challenges. So it's how can we help the students help companies, and also do good at the same time, and that was really something that resonated with me, and also kind of the fact that we can really scale the impact of what we're having a core plan. So, you know, that's part of the reason why we're launching the new programs in the autumn, which will enable us to access much more diverse talent, get them through our programs, to get them into flexible jobs, to get them, you know, to create different outcomes for individuals and for companies really. So it ticked all the boxes for me as something that I could really get engaged with. And I'd already knew called clan anyway, because I'd hired some cool clan, grads and annex instructor and my teammate sustainably. So I was really familiar with cold clan already. So almost when I arrived, I kind of felt like I've been here for, you know, a long time.

Rebecca Turnbull:

That's lovely. And I guess it really fits in with your ambitions. And this is a chance to kind of like scale, those not just like scale the talent, and help the Tech for Good sector grow, which is definitely something that I can see developing more and more in like Scotland in particular, there's like a real core of people looking at interesting challenges around climate tech or, you know, financial inclusion, in particular, definitely. Even the robotics sectors becoming quite for good focused.

Unknown:

Yeah, yeah. And actually, we're going to be having a big event of the national libertarian in September, which will be, you know, a lot kind of focused on the ethics of AI. And you know, how we're building programs for machine learning and AI for good. So, yeah, it kind of all really, really, really ties in together in terms of what my passions are, and how really, that connects to the bigger ecosystem, and where I see things developing and how we can help companies on that trajectory as well.

Rebecca Turnbull:

So in some areas of diversity, for example, women in tech, if we focus on that, because it's obviously very broad. There's just not enough women in the current pools of talent to kind of like satisfy the demand of companies, if they were like serious about making a big difference to diversity in that area. What do you think are the biggest barriers at the moment to attracting more women into the tech sector?

Unknown:

Yeah, so we've just recently carried out a review with a young woman called or young women's movement, the project itself was called young woman called on all the intersectional barriers, which affect women coming into tech. And, you know, it's kind of going back to the historic issues of caring responsibilities tend to fall on women, and that has a huge impact on women's ability to fully participate and an immersive program. And there needs to be more streamlined structure and support, you know, because of the those caring responsibilities for either children or elderly mostly lie on the shoulders of women. So it's, you know, creating the support and, you know, mentoring and all kind of the add ons to make that a possibility. And then also the funding. We there's a lot been written about the the pay gap, the gender pay gap in digital technology is 20,000 pounds. That's not an insignificant amount of money, which tends to mean that women continue to get the catering responsibilities, and all those gender gendered norms around STEM that just create a stigma that pushes women away from tech. And there's also a bit when they're going into the job market and feeling like they're being measured by a different standard to their male peers. So our research really concluded that women valued more flexible remote part time work, working opportunities, as well as the mentorship and that's really how we've decided to launch this part time on demand program in the OFF time, which will actually have some fully funded places that will enable women to To take part, and then we will help them get flexible jobs at the end as well. So it's really been a kind of really interesting project for us to look at our offering, and then get all the feedback, do the research, understand the barriers and then produce a program that will enable women to engage?

Rebecca Turnbull:

Yep, flexibility is something that makes a huge impact to women in their lives, I would say I mean, it makes a difference to everybody. And if you can offer as an employer, it's obviously like a huge selling point and is, you're going to get other like health and wellness benefits across the company. But, you know, if you've got the burden of childcare or other caring responsibilities, or even just managing the house and stuff that's involved in that, potentially, it really does make a big difference to your ability to do work when you're able to produce the highest quality work and have the biggest impact.

Unknown:

I totally agree. And, you know, it's kind of women seem to remain as Mark Cogan, recently referred to as the CEO of the house, and that really needs to change because, you know, men can't just check out and let women deal with all of that there has to be a different approach. And that's really, why we're kind of looking at building this part time program at the moment. But in theory, you know, how can we get to the bottom of all these different barriers that women face, and it's not going to be a simple fix, but what can we do to make things happen now, and part of that is, is getting funding industry to fund places so that women can go through our programs, and then go and work in those organizations have them have completely completely different outcomes as a result?

Rebecca Turnbull:

Yeah. And years ago, this is old research, but I don't think it's changed massively. I did some research into like the percentage of women who had gone into technology from another area versus those who had like decided I'm going to be a computer scientist, or to an IT degree, and work their way up. And the majority of women actually came from a different background and Ted, they've maybe worked in a bank and moved into the businesses analysis, and then maybe something more technical, or they had like transitioned from a more of like a digital role to a data role, for example. And I don't think that that has changed a huge amount. And it can be, we can get more women into these technical roles that where they're making products that are going to be used by women, unless we keep providing those career paths. So what I'm hearing from you is like flexibility, if you're serious, you can build the talent pipeline. But if you're going to retain it, that's absolutely vital.

Unknown:

Absolutely. And we've seen some great examples of women coming through code clan, for example, we had someone from HR at Skyscanner came in at our program went back as a software engineer, someone who was in hospitality with low languages degree was then working in a FinTech, someone who was a literal women examples of women, a woman who was a member of cabin crew came that the program and went back to work in the same organization, as a software engineer, a midwife who went on to be a software engineer at one of the big banks. And it kind of just goes on, there's so many just great example of how we are kind of, if you have, if you have an interest to a taster event, you know, you kind of feel that you think you can, that's something you might be interested in, come along to try one of our testers, see what you think you will hear so much from our alumni around, you know, they they just tried to, you know, we don't require any prior coding experience to get you into one of our programs are called Can we just require you to go through some puzzle and logic tests, and we'll we'll kind of take you through the program. It's not easy, but you know, it's definitely it's definitely not something that is exclusive to men, if we can get more and more women through our programs, then, like you mentioned earlier, we'll get better products and services in those companies that are not kind of just building for one gender, you know, if you have a diverse team, you're building a product that will be more successful, because it will be attractive to more people. And that's really what we're trying to do here is to encourage companies to seek more diverse talent that might launch flexible working or you know, not be available at certain times of the day bas are an amazing resource of talent for those companies where there's continuing to be a skills gap, and how can we plug that in more creative ways. So part of that is educating companies that we work with all the different ways that they can engage this new diverse talent pool.

Rebecca Turnbull:

So that's really good to hear that people are interested in learning about that as well. Tell me about it. About this on demand program, I'm really interested to know more about it because it sounds like it. It's been like an absolute passion project.

Unknown:

Yeah, so the on demand program will be enable students to access the course from wherever they are. So they won't have to come on to campus, nine to five, and, you know, do the learning there or consume the learning because we do online programs where you can be removed, but those are all asset times. So this will allow students to unlock the potential of those courses, get the certification, and the skills that they need to be successful in an industry. The first program that we're launching is data science. So it's professional data scientist, and it is pre recorded lessons with live tutorials and workshops, which are optional dropin, fully supported by instructors, and mentors, and then you get the accreditation at the end, and you get all the careers and wellness support during the program as well. And then we help you get into job into a job. So it's very much a new flexible way to do our programs, which we haven't had before, really open up that opportunity for people who aren't able to do the programs. 95 come onto our campus or quit their jobs or you know, anything else. So instead of doing over 16 weeks or 14 weeks, which our current programs are, you'll be able to do this over 40 weeks specific mentoring for women, as well, which again, is a really part of our research, something that we felt was really important to this program. We're going to be launching the program with Scottish women and technology as well. Yeah, it's really exciting to be able to do this, that will be the first of a series of different on demand programs that we'll be running. And yeah, it's really exciting to be able to offer something like this, especially if with the funded place. That's yeah, so it is available on our website. If women want to pre register their interest now, it will be coming in autumn 2023,

Rebecca Turnbull:

they should definitely do that. Because I imagine it'd be really popular because, you know, it sounds like it's like an excellent solution for women would base your business on the challenges that we discussed earlier. But also for anyone who just wants to have real quality of education, because obviously this is aligned with s QE accreditation, a bit they've got challenged around location or accessibility. Or maybe they just like find this as better for their learning style. Not everyone will thrive in an environment where they've got like 16 weeks of intense focus and have to be on site. So it's great to see that there's this option there for everybody.

Unknown:

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, technology is really its head and shoulders above every other sector in terms of the impact on our lives at the moment. And you know if we can boost every industry, with this advancing innovation and create new employment opportunities by empowering women, I was looking at some stats, that job vacancies in the UK are soaring and digital skills shortage really dominate the headlines. So business leaders really need to get creative about how they recruit staff and then how they onboard and nurture that diverse talent with upskilling opportunities, provide mentoring and career progression and create a place of work where everyone is supported. But you know, conversely, despite all this diversity being on the agenda for a number of years, progress in technology in the tech industry at large has been very slow. The number of women employed in the sector's reached 26%, I think but you know, whilst the UK tech job market is predicted to grow six times and be worth around 30 billion by 2025, there's only going to be one qualified woman for every 115 rolls, apparently, unless something significant changes. So Arjun actin is really required to develop that talent pipeline. And it's not really just about gender. One of four tech employees are women, but most are white. So, you know, we're working with data Park and various other organizations to get more black talent to get more other groups of talent. You know, it's, it's crazy, you know, 3% of women working in technology are black, compared to 29%, who identify as Asian and another 3% are Hispanic one in 10. People consider themselves neurodiverse, which is how do we build our products and services, our app called clans to provide that talent and to industry at large and how do we educate them on the benefits of having that talent pool, which they don't currently have? How amazing would their products and services be if they have access to that untapped talent? One of the stats that I found was that achieving gender parity and it's been itself would add 2.6 billion to GDP. increasing social mobility across sectors even modestly could benefit the country's wider economy by up to 45 billion. So it's crazy numbers. But you know, what are we doing here to help that.

Rebecca Turnbull:

And I think that if you are in any kind of leadership role in tech, you have to take a little bit of responsibility for it, it's not easy to fix, and no one expects instant results. Because as we've discussed, that you can't just create talent, you have to nurture it, you have to give people skills in order for them to be able to do these jobs. And they're just not necessarily coming in at the moment through traditional education pathways. And there's a lot of talk that things are changing around the skills that people need this great chance to be thinking, have I got this been an amazing employee, that I can redeploy, because you want to keep that person they understand your business, maybe they've been working in a customer support role, and I totally understand your customers, that that kind of person could be an ideal candidate for upscaling technically, and helping solve that problem

Unknown:

completely. And like you say, it's about retaining the knowledge of your business. I mean, these people, the people that you have, are employed, and that are amazing potential candidates for these types of programs, they have so much retained existing knowledge, why would you want to lose that? Why would you not think that you could take that person and upskill them, put them on a short program, put them on a part time program, where they're maybe doing one day a week, you know, and that will give you the skills and your organization to, you know, Excel faster, because you have talented people with the right skills that you can use to help move the dial in your organization. So it makes a lot of sense for our on demand program to be leveraged by companies as well to put talent through their organization.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Yeah, completely, it's something they can even do, as part of their role at work. There's lots of companies that give Fridays as a training day to their team, if they're in that situation. So it's not just enough like to create the talent, you then got to keep it, you're always having lots of conversations with companies about the skills gap and how they're going to make the most of all of these people once is invested in them. What kind of practical things are you seeing businesses do or put in place to help retain talent beyond salaries at the moment?

Unknown:

Yeah, so I think is having that the opportunity to learn, you know, some companies have, like 25% of your time is for projects and learning. And then when students are graduates are going into companies that called climb doors with mentors that have dedicated time for those cold climb graduates, those companies accelerate faster as well. So it's about having the support networks, but also having the opportunity to learn. So I think companies are taking more seriously the wellness to the the fact that they don't expect you to be burning out in it's a completely different culture to the one that I grew up in, where you kind of were almost expected to be burning out because the workload and the demands and the way that you had to work to progress where we're kind of quite, I think it was an old way of working. But I think now companies that have that focus on wellness that have support groups for diverse talent that do take learning and development at the forefront of how they want to move their organization forward are the companies that people want to work in now. And you can see that in the statistics, there's many statistics that backup that people, for people, it's not about the salary, it's about the culture,

Rebecca Turnbull:

here, purpose has to be much more clearly articulated in order to engage people and keep people motivated. We touched at the start that you lead a Tech for Good company. And I think that that kind of business is way, way, way more attractive to candidates than it was even five years ago, I place quite a few people in tech for good companies. And they're actually really commercial. I think there's a bit of a misconception about what it's like to work there. It's actually quite fast paced and competitive as a space. What advice would you give to founders in that area?

Unknown:

Kind of understanding what what are the motivations and a lot of that motivation? Because we were a small organization was the mission, you know, and how do you treat your staff? It's those two things. It's like, are you giving them the opportunities to learn? Do they feel valued at work? Do you care about their wellness and their well being, and that applies to companies of any size and they might still be very commercial? Because ultimately, of course, you need to make money, you're a business you don't run on fumes. Unfortunately, even if you have the nicest mission in the world, you're not money pays your bills. So you do have to be commercial, but you also have to think about how do you pay to buy those people that are We're working in your organization, and what are the benefits for them as well. And also, you can't just be a Tech for Good company from a customer perspective and then not do the same internally, it has to be very much through the veins of the organization.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Yeah. And interestingly enough, one of the companies that I'm working with in that space just now, they add a lot of social value through what they do. And the went through, you know, a huge program recently, over the last couple of years about how they behave internally, and how does that reflect things, and the have had like a huge increase in, like their employer scores internally and achieved to place on great place to work. But they've also seen real business benefits from that, that, like the new product development, access, new markets, growth within the company has all come as they have invested in it. So if you're willing to put the time in, it's not something that you can get an immediate return on an investment in. But it definitely will translate into a more profitable or sustainable organization.

Unknown:

Yeah, I totally agree. It's kind of like the B Corp idea that if you are kind of that type of business, and it runs through every single aspect of what you do, you know, you're going to be because people want to buy from and work for companies who do good, you're essentially going to succeed on the basis that the better you are as an employer, and the better you are as a corporate citizen, or as at large, you're going to be the more desirable place to buy from,

Rebecca Turnbull:

if I'm thinking about changing my career, or if I'm working in tech leadership or in kind of talent or HR role within those businesses, that on demand course really stands out. How do I find out more about that and the other offerings from coop con like the Youth Academy, we didn't even discuss?

Unknown:

Yeah, it's all on our website called plan.com. And yeah, the there's more information on our part time program, there is more information on how to become a partner, clan, to access our diverse talent. There's more information on our youth academy, if you know anyone in the 1624, your year old age range, who you think we'd benefit we have signups there as well. We're long, we're running programs in the summer, we've just done some programs in the spring. And so that is really much in the area, we're seeing a lot of growth. So yeah, there's lots of opportunities. If you want to sponsor a student through the program, you can contribute to our emerging talents. And there's so many different ways to engage. Yeah, all the information on all the ways to engage with with code clan is on our website. And also, the other interesting thing that I mentioned today was the sustainability engineering programs that will be coming live on the website soon. So yeah, just watch out for that we'll do you know, a bigger splash on that as well. So I think that will be really attractive to people in companies who want to get their teams on that trajectory to net zero as well,

Rebecca Turnbull:

is becoming more and more important. from a commercial perspective. I know that there are lots of companies out there that are now within their procurement teams assessing whether they should take yourself for a product over another based on your sustainability and diversity credentials. So it's definitely something that again, it's not going to be a nice to have, it's something that is going to add real value to your business if you upskill people in

Unknown:

absolutely, and the scope 123 emissions that you're right, that is part of the procurement process. And that is just going to be I think legislatively and obviously procurement wise, critical that you are on a trajectory for that to actually win new business. So yeah, it's really smart move if you sign up to do our programs, and those are on demand as well. So you could access them from anywhere at times.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Totally. And the sooner you do these things, the sooner you realize the benefits and gain that competitive advantage from doing any of this stuff. So it's definitely worth anyone who is in a tech company having a look at so this has been like super interesting to learn a lot more about what you're doing clan, and it's great to see how the organization's growth and learn more about the impact that it's had over the last several years. I'll make sure that your contact details are in the description below so anyone can reach out or get in touch. But thanks for joining me and I can't wait to see all of these new products and services launch. We'll have to keep in touch especially maybe have you back to discuss sustainability in tech and why it's important to have that knowledge within your business.

Unknown:

Amazing. Thank you so much for that. It's been a pleasure. And yeah, I look forward to updating you on our progress.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Thanks for listening to the Listen perspective. I'm Rebecca Hastings, founder and director at the Lucent group, a tech sector executive search and talent consultancy. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe share it with others who post about it on social media or leave a rating and review. If you're a company looking to hire top technology leaders, or you'd like to discuss your next move, please reach out to me on LinkedIn or send