The Lucent Perspective

Fintech Evolution: A Conversation on Transformative Trends and Culture with Richard Doherty

• Rebecca Hastings • Season 1 • Episode 18

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In the ever-evolving world of business and leadership, one thing stands out as the ultimate game-changer: culture. If you've ever wondered what sets successful companies apart from the rest, our latest podcast episode dives deep into the transformative power of culture and its role in scaling up and thriving in today's competitive landscape. Our guest speaker makes it clear – it's all about 'culture, culture, and culture.' 

I am very fortunate to be joined by Richard Doherty, a distinguished expert in the industry. Richard emphasizes that without a robust culture, an enterprise's aspirations and desired outcomes remain elusive. He contends that the individuals within an organization are its lifeblood, and their presence alone is insufficient. Instead, he underscores the necessity of empathetic leadership, driven by purpose, capable of galvanizing the entire organization, ensuring unwavering alignment with the established culture. 
 

Episode Outline and Highlights 

[00:00:48] The culture of collective transformation. 
[00:06:13] Having a growth mindset. 
[00:09:04] Humility and customer-centricity.   
[00:19:36] Leaders learning from other leaders. 
[00:22:10] Developing talent at the leadership level.   
[00:30:41] Daily video communication for teams. 
[00:35:44] Three important pieces of advice: culture, culture, and culture.  
[00:39:10] Successful transformations.

Culture is the linchpin for success in transformation efforts, as emphasized by Richard Doherty in this podcast. He underscores the significance of empathetic leadership and a collective culture over a superhero culture. Structured conversations play a vital role in effective learning, requiring planning, agendas, clear goals, and inclusivity. A growth mindset is crucial for revenue, productivity, and innovation, not just for leaders but throughout the organization, achieved through learning opportunities and fostering innovation.

About Richard Doherty 

Richard Doherty is a seasoned professional with a remarkable 15-year career dedicated to driving business and technology transformation within the realms of Financial Services, Investment Banking, Exchanges, and Fintech. He excels at aligning large-scale IT and digital initiatives with client strategies, consistently achieving impactful results. 

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Rebecca Hastings, Founder and Director at The Lucent Group

Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hastingsrebecca/

Would you like to be a guest? Book a time to speak with Rebecca: https://calendly.com/rebeccahastings/discovery-call

The Lucent Group Ltd website - https://www.thelucentgroup.co.uk/

The Lucent Perspective website - https://thelucentperspective.com/

Rebecca has extensive talent and executive search experience supporting digital and technology businesses through complex changes and fast-paced scale-up periods. She works with businesses advising on C-level, technical, sales and commercial appointments, workforce planning, strategic talent management, recruitment processes and associated technology and employer brand development.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Welcome to the Listen perspective. I'm your host, Rebecca Hastings. I've spent over a decade working with executives in the tech sector, and help successful companies build their leadership teams and scale. During my career, I've been lucky to have the privilege of learning from many exceptional leaders. In these conversations, you'll get perspectives from peers, be inspired, and learn what it takes to become one of the best. This is your chance to listen to experts talking about the challenges, solutions, and the vital insights they've gained in their careers to date.

Unknown:

In most organizations is this superhero culture. The superhero culture gets you nowhere, the collective gets you everywhere. Leaders need to understand that upfront and drive the culture of collective transformation from the start.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Thanks for joining us today. I'm joined by Richard Doherty. Richard is FinTech consultant. And he has actually written extensively about FinTech evolution, the digitization of financial services. And he's also the host of the FinTech scaling show, which he had me as a guest on last year. So I'm delighted to be catching up with him again, we're going to have a discussion today about trends within FinTech and leading transformation, which I think is really topical, just now. There's a lot of change happening in the industry. And it's always great to get some more perspective. So thanks so much for joining me right shirt.

Unknown:

Yeah, brilliant, and super, super happy to be on the show. And before we kick off, just a shout out to cricket. Hope you guys well. We had a bit of a chat beforehand, but yeah, super, super stoked to be on the show. I'm looking forward to conversation.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Thanks for that. For those of you who don't know me, Cricket is my dog. And he's been a bit poorly over the last week, but safely on the mend, thankfully. So, David, back into the world of FinTech, Richard, you have spoken to hundreds of FinTech leaders across the globe over the last few years. And I know you really keep your finger on the pulse. So what do you see is the emerging trends for the FinTech sector as we start going into 2024? imminently?

Unknown:

Yeah, it's close. It's it was pretty scary right now. 2024 is just on the horizon. But you know, it's a really interesting question. It's really, you know, really good thing to start thinking about right now. You know, there's gonna be two things, right, I've touched on one, we need to continuously continue to focus on our customers. And that's going to be even more important as we move forward. And the next thing is making certain as we move forward, we move forward with a growth mindset, right? We move forward making, making certain that our companies evolve, not only operationally but they evolve. And dynamically, we look at different types of investments, we look at different types of markets. Because if we start doing that, then the evolution of FinTech was really bound towards something actually quite, quite great. I think the next real uplift from a market perspective is in the developing nations, the likes of India, Africa, etc. That's really starting to take off. So keep keep your eyes on that. But yeah, I think I think 2024 is all about customer centricity growth mindsets, and restoring new markets as well. And I'll put Saudi Arabia in sort of the middle east into that as well.

Rebecca Turnbull:

That's really interesting, because like, customer centricity is definitely something that I'm speaking to businesses about. I think that people are way more customer focused on the product side than they have been and they've made it is maybe because there's been a lot of learning from not listening to customers enough over the last couple of years. And the companies that are able to delight their customers and provide interesting, relevant personalization seem to be excelling on the b2c side, but also think on the b2b side, you know, listening to your customers there something that is people are doing a lot more effectively and taking a lot more care of, I think that a lot of b2b applications in the past they were maybe a bit clunky and ugly, that's no longer the standard that's accepted by consumers there. And that growth mindset piece that's all about people's so that's that's a people challenge that is a you know, a trend for the sector. Definitely. Hopefully it's one then and well actually take place in my opinion.

Unknown:

Yeah, let's, let's take a look at both of those two things. So you know, I think back in the day, you know, 20 3040 years ago, there was this, you know, the tech used to work in siloed fashion, so you had sales going out selling something fancy that people in tech and then product were like, Okay, why do that, but now fintechs have wised up to the challenge, right. And, you know, companies that are scaling and growing, and even, you know, older companies, such as you know, ing or Barclays, you know, functions are much more integrated now, right, you have sales, you have marketing, you have product development, you have, you know, the software engineers, who have operations, all of these functions are much more integrated, looking at various problem statements in the market, and coming up together with, you know, actually, this is the most important priority for the next 12 months or 18 months, Let's all focus on that. And because, because they as a collective are focusing on a problem, then, you know, certain applications are going to get to market much quicker, right. So, I think, you know, the maturity of leadership has changed over time, which obviously, to your point that has led to a much more inclusive, inclusive, and collective way of looking at product and product releases. On the second point, and growth mindset, you know, Accenture, loved, loved all my time there. And also, I still work and do consulting work with upscales. And in large organizations, and a lot of the time, you know, their work focuses on operational activities that you know, people process and technology, which is, which is all good, and very important. And yes, it drives revenue, and it drives and drives productivity, and you know, all that stuff that that everyone loves, but also silently hates, right. But a growth mindset is slightly different, right? A growth mindset is, is having the ability as a senior leader, CEO, in that exec team, and taking a look at your company, and trying to unlock value, right? And value is, you know, a bit of a misnomer. What is value, okay. So, in this instance, I would say value is being able to understand the market the product, the customers, and being able to place small bets at certain points in time that allows you to to grow, right. And those small bets might be, as an example, might be an investment in a in a in upstarts, if you're a Barclays as an example. Or if you're a startup, or if you're scale up, it might be an investment in growing into a new market. But that growth mindset allows you to sort of run ahead of the pack. And once you start running ahead of the pack, you're going to catch the wave at some point in time and then be the leader that everyone wants to come to. And I guess that's the position that's right now people should be striving for, because there's going to be a new economy sort of coming out of what we have right now. And I feel that that mindset is going to be any pain of purpose of Biden's.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Absolutely. And as you were talking there, I reflected on, who I think the best product managers I've worked with over the years are, are product leaders. And I think that one of the traits that the ones who are truly customer centric had was humility, because I think that it's really easy to go out there with your preconceived opinions of your product. But if you are truly a little bit more humble about the situation, you're going to uncover things you did not know or, you know, just like tweak what you thought that could make a significant impact on the success of a product. So it's great to see those. Those two things being much more present within the FinTech world, because they have led to success. And another thing I picked up on you saying there was a big focus, and do you know, that's going to be absolutely critical, the investment climate is a lot tighter. And if you can truly get your team focused on achieving that one thing or the goal that's going to make the biggest impact, you're far more likely to be able to move forwards with your business, maybe get your series B or C whatever it is, that's around the corner for you.

Unknown:

Yeah, I mean, 100% and, you know, the investment climate is like a bit choppy right now, I think Right now, it is all about product product market fit. And if you have that customer centricity in mind, then yes, it shouldn't be as tricky as maybe it would be if if you forgot that, or you left that to the back the back part of your, your list. So there's, you know, just like you I mean, I've worked last board, lots of product managers, I've worked with so many, so many tech companies out there and the best, the best ones are the ones that really understand how the customer feels, how the customer interacts, and also how the mission will help those customers get towards where they want to get towards. And just as you said, I'm going to copy exactly what you said, I mean, the humility going out there. And when you do market research, whether it's bringing people in for two or three, our market research day, listen to their feedback, wow, you know, you've paid people to come in want to listen to them? Because if you do, we actually going to build an awesome product and awesome product that nobody knows 30 people that you bought in will use but most probably a large part of the market or user as well. So yeah, I think I think focusing on that is going to be important. I think on the on the investment side of things. Listen, I think. And one thing that that's for certain that's been happening over over this parts over, I guess the course of this year in 2023. There's there's been a number of acquisitions and new partnerships that seem to be emerging, I think. I think there's going to be another Misumi Critical Mass Driver during the during the latter half of q4 in the first part of q1 next year, which will continue that that trend,

Rebecca Turnbull:

can you talk about some global markets starting to emerge more? I mean, certainly, I always think India's a bit overlooked as an AI powerhouse in the making, for example. So what are you seeing out there? You mentioned, Asia and the Middle East and Africa.

Unknown:

Listen, by the way, before I answer that, I'm not a VC, I don't work in P. But I do obviously talk to a lot of people founders, investment, investment gurus, etc. So I do have a finger on the pulse. For me, the the two growth markets, when I went to go and try to be more one is Asia, because of where it is, and what what it's doing. It's going to continue to be growth markets might be a bit, you know, on the wrong side of all the stuff that's going on in the UK in the US, but China is a big market, and there's still a lot of potential there, then I would definitely say the other part is the Middle East. Dubai, Saudi Arabia, there is a lot going on there right now. I know that a number of big, the big four have already set up, you know, cuz they're sort of shocked. They're in the Middle East and are working with the new wave of tech tech firms out in Saudi Arabia right now to help them on their 2030 vision. And I see a lot, a lot. So happening out there right now also know that, in that region, there's a lot of inward investment, not just in tech, but infrastructure. We have a new arm being built right now. So I think, you know, those two areas or high growth potential areas, unfortunately, in the UK. And I think in the US as well, there seems there seems to be a bit softer growth in the next year or so. But, you know, that's going to pick up 100% Or pick up. And I think we have to be optimistic about that.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Yeah, and there certainly seems to be plenty of opportunities for UK businesses to be working with Saudi, for example, I can think of a couple off the top my head that are engaged in providing FinTech solution that tie in with some of that massive investment in their infrastructure.

Unknown:

Yeah, 100% I think there's, there's already there's already two providers going out there. I know a number of them that have gone out there. There's there's one one side of the coin is investment. But the other side of the coin is talent and product and the UK In particular, the UK has a brilliant FinTech sector, and it's really the best in the world. So Saudi is learning from, from all the people that have built that over the last number of years. And obviously, the companies that they feel or sort of aligned to their vision, their strategy, or being helped to embed themselves with inside sort of the summer ecosystem. So

Rebecca Turnbull:

we've talked about industry trends there. How do you see that translating into talent trends, you know, their skills and attributes? Or, you know, other things that leaders should be looking out for?

Unknown:

Yeah, talent is a means a great question, right. And talent. Talent is always a tricky one for for leaders. I don't mean, tricky, as difficult too difficult to, to solve. But I feel that just maybe going slightly, on the slightest sort of left left side here. Feel that the acquisition or talent is, is well known, well understood, we work with people like yourself, Rebecca, and others in industry to find it really, really good talent. But once we actually, once we do that, we found a really good talent. Not always, but sometimes their talent comes into an organization, and are just left there or left to their own devices, to do what to either lead up a program, do certain immune do marketing, sales, whatever it is, they aren't given the guardrails to show them what good looks like, right. And if leaders really once talent and propel propel them to the next level, they've got to take the finger out, and show them what good what good looks like, right? So show them these are the stages. And this is what I want you to do in the next five years, this is, this is the comp that's going to be on hand if we achieve that. And by the way, if you do in the next five years, and you want to leave, maybe I will help you, I'll help you into next position, I hope you enjoy your next role or help you move companies. So I think I think there's a there's some learning required, when it comes to really galvanizing and collecting talent and making certain that we get the best out of every individual. And then obviously, the best are the collective, because that's ultimately what helps scale. And that's what helps businesses transform.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Totally, and you said some really interesting things there. You know, I think learning as a business function, it's got so much that they could be doing just now. And it's an area that's sometimes seen as a luxury and fintechs, you know, though, spends a lot on talent acquisition, but actually continuing to develop that talent is something which if you're not doing and you're not constantly doing, you're going to be left behind very quickly. And I think that that whole bit about setting standards and goals. That's, you know, there's maybe some because there has been so much competition for talent, and there's been just like, we've got to move at pace in order to acquire the right people for our business. Not all but some companies have definitely fallen into the trap where they have thought I need, for example, as a sales manager or business development manager. And they'll just say, oh, that's what the spec looked like last time, but go and get people to find those individuals. They don't sit there and think well, what is it that we're trying to achieve? As a business? What is the goal? What does good look like? What does someone need to do in three months to achieve their? What would that person achieve near and what would a superstar achieve? And then how do we set those standards and really push themselves to define for talent at the acquisition point should look like because if you don't set the standard there, you're never gonna have the right people to deliver the high standards, and you know, the revenue that you want within your business. Yeah,

Unknown:

I mean, you're such such great points. And me, you know, all of our are all about sort of the acquisition side of things. What I would say is, you know, leaders need to learn from other leaders, right. And I think there's no better example than Satya Nadella, the CEO and chairman, current chairman of Microsoft. When he took over the helm in 2014, not many people like Microsoft, they thought they were sort of the bullies of the markets, right? They were they would go in and just try to take over everything and he He interestingly, his first, his first speech to, to the Microsoft employees, yes, in the auditorium, I think in the Seattle offices, and he said, Listen, you know, our collective mission is to innovate going forward. And we're going to innovate in the mobile and cloud space. Okay? You know, fast forward, sort of 11 1011 years on, okay, well, Microsoft now, and Microsoft zero counts for something like 95% of fortune 500 companies use the product. So what did he do? He puts, he puts empathy, culture, leadership development, communication at the top of his agenda, and look where he got. Right. So my question to the folks that are listening is, what are you doing, in order to develop your people to develop to develop your culture to develop your organization? Are you only thinking of revenue? Or are you thinking of the collective? And how the collective can help you propel to the next level? So yeah, I think I think I think there's, there's learnings that we need to we need to take and I think, just on that, when we go into any type of transformation or scaling agenda, there's there's always there's always a massive and heavy reliance on tech 95% of the budget, bomb tech. Okay, well, great. That's cool. That's, that's fine. But also, let's take that helicopter view, and realize that tech get, the tech will get built with people. So whilst we build a tech heavy plan, we should also have a very sort of heavy talent and capability plan that matches that. And with those to work in synchronization, then sort of you're going to start unlocking value.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Yeah, definitely. And I think managing and developing talent at the leadership side is something that I think startups in particular definitely scaleups could improve on. Certainly the feedback that I get from, you know, people who are at the hedge off and director level aspiring to C suite is that they find it hard to get development beyond their immediate line manager. And they know if they're wanting to move into the C suite, for example, they're actually going to need to learn about other areas of the business, if they're going to be in a leadership team. So your techies need to be more commercial. Your commercial people maybe need to have a little bit more interaction with product and tech sometimes. And it's get we've not been focused enough on that I think companies quite often look at acquiring talent, rather than developing is kind of in the default setting. But as investment has cut back, and we have to do more with less, and we can spend as much money on talent acquisition, it's, you know, absolutely imperative to kind of like unlock that value in those aspiring leaders just now.

Unknown:

A lot of the time, failure, I don't wanna say failures, a lot of time there's, there's a, there's a voice from the top the CEO or other leaders with inside their spaces. So yes, listen, hey, we're gonna go on this, this journey, this the scaling up journey, or we're gonna go on this digital transformation journey. But that's it. That's where the communication stops, and everyone then underneath, goes off and does the own thing. So there's a little parachutes. parachutes, projects are programs that kick off. And you know, what comes out of that a year later? Well, not much, because there's silo activity, which you just mentioned, sort of taking place. And that doesn't help. Right.

Rebecca Turnbull:

So thinking more about transformation, I know that's something that you have a lot of expertise in. Could you think transformation is reshaping these FinTech companies? At the moment? Are there any kind of like key things that you've identified?

Unknown:

One of two things? One is to what we said, what are we talking about at the top of the shows, being able to have not just think operationally, because operationally operations as operations is going to be there, we're gonna have to fix it. We know that we need to give operationally more efficient, but being able to think with a growth mindset, that is fundamental, not everyone can do this, right, because actually, a lot of people all of us get taught through the McKinsey's, the Accenture and the KPMG is the Barclays, HSBC, which is very, very operational. So it's difficult sometimes to come in with a growth mindset, the growth mindset to want to learn to want to take things a bit further, right? So what is that growth mindset, there's value, right? And being able to unlock value where their value is, but they're both, they both work in tandem, you're not going to be able to unlock value in your company, if you are not thinking, if you don't have the mindset of growth, it's just not gonna happen. So I think those two things if you get them, if you get them working with inside your organization at a senior level, but not just at a senior level, in the leadership team, but you have to have a culture of it through through through the organization, then you're on to something really interesting, I think, you know, things such as you mentioned earlier on in techie. One wanting to get one more commercial. Okay, so why don't we put stuff into the orgonite into the organization that allows these people to pick up different skills alongside the career journey. So for example, just coming up with us on the fly, we have a Friday business ideas bank, everyone can can check ideas into their bank. And that's all of our growth. So the techie, you know, who's developing Java might come up with a really interesting app that is very interesting for the Saudi market, for whatever reason, are very interested in for a different type of demographic, then all of a sudden, they get pulled into a different conversation from a business level. So they, we constantly have to think about ways to reinvent ourselves and ways to reinvent the ways we communicate across cross functions.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Yeah. I think I think you're right, Richard, getting people together to have those conversations is absolutely key. I would say, providing a bit of structure to them would be important. If it's something if you're listening and think I just want to get on and do that. It's not enough to just put a meeting and this in the diary for everyone that you want in that group. You have to think of how are people going to get the most of it? How is everyone voices going to be hard? Because otherwise, you're not going to get that that fill kind of learning opportunity? Yeah, totally

Unknown:

structure is, is important, right? Otherwise, we're heading towards nowhere fast. And it's nice to juggle things around all the time. But you know, I've got this, I got the same purpose drives outcome, right? You gotta, you gotta have a good purpose and drive your outcome, the structure, but below that they're largely to get there.

Rebecca Turnbull:

And what are the kind of common mistakes or pitfalls that you see leadership teams falling into, when companies are going through these periods of transformation?

Unknown:

Yeah, so I mean, it's again, that's a that's a good question. So I think one is, the, the chief executive, as an idea, communicates that idea to the market, but doesn't communicate to the leadership team. That's, that's, that's one and then the leadership team goes off and, and does certain things without any structure in place, which means there's not that you're not going to get any value off the back of that. The second is not working as a collective and work this, unfortunately, in most organizations is this superhero culture. And it's totally something for free, the superhero culture gets you nowhere. The collective gets you everywhere. So, leaders need to really be on point to, they need to understand that upfront and drive the culture of collective transformation from the start, because if you can do that, if sales, marketing, operations, tech, etc, all have a collective understanding of what this transformation is, what it means to the departments, what it means to themselves, what it means the company, maybe what it means to an excerpt, if we are you thinking about scaling, you know, then all of a sudden plans, teams, etc, are going to be a collective organism of that feeling. Whereas if we think of as a silo, nothing's going to happen. It's going to be quite fragmented. Right? And it's gonna be difficult to, to move forward with and I think the last thing is, is communication. You're making certain you have clear lines and clear sides of communication all the time. And it's not just top senior leadership communication, it's communication front to back, top to bottom. You know, we should be thinking about ways we can communicate. So as an example, if you're CEO out there, or your head of department in in a large organization, you should always measure it every day be spending 10 minutes, 20 minutes, some are communicating to your teams, where I like the blueberry example, when they went through quite a large digital transformation, the CEO there, she was taking the phone clips and sending out, you know, two, three minute videos every day, to her leadership team and to the company saying, Okay, this was going on today. These are, these are priorities, etc. So bang the drum and continue that.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Damn, I think that, like what you said there, communication is absolutely key. And it's really easy, especially if you're in a remote or hybrid environment, or a large organization to be a bit more disconnected from everybody. And it's very easy to assume people know what is going on. But there are so many challenges around what you communicate on what platform and how you do it. And when you do it, especially if you have a global team. There is definitely something that's worth considering. But ultimately, like getting that vision, the goals, but importantly, I think you kind of touched on it, like the why we're doing it over to like your team is absolutely vital. It is really easy to forget to remind people why you are doing something rather than just to tell them we're doing this part now. To assume they know why. Exactly.

Unknown:

I mean, 100% I mean, I think I think now that the all these things that we are doing and we talking about? Yeah, we bought in tech, we're building new business, are we building a new departments or we transport large corporate? But what is the common? What is the common thread in all of this? It's the people, right? So let's think about that first.

Rebecca Turnbull:

And there was one other thing that I thought you didn't mention that I sometimes see. Or sometimes I just see a bit late, to be honest, when I is not having somebody who owns the transformation in a business. And it doesn't always have to be the CEO, but someone who is actually managing that docket like managing the reporting, the data coordinating, sometimes it's overlooked. And, you know, if you're above a certain size, or you have a particular level of complexity, and you know, maybe just like many customers that you have to communicate all this to, it's so easy to underestimate how much work is involved in just ensuring that that is like smooth and well communicated?

Unknown:

Yeah, I mean, that you hit the nail on the head. I mean, I should have mentioned that. Thanks for bringing it up. Listen, that is a huge thing. Yes. You know, the CEO or department or, you know, one of those senior folks will be accountable. Yeah. 100%. And they're going to be be there doing stuff, but who's the person that's responsible doing the day in day out? And there has to be? From my, yeah, I've been in the game now for for for a while. And there's always, a lot of people have always said to me, you know, there's a lot of there's not a talk out there saying there needs to be business ownership of problems. And listen, I totally agree. But let's think about what business and how do we define business? You know, what is business? Is business just sales? Or is it just marketing? Or is it sales, marketing, tech operations, you know, software engineering and product development. And why I say that is, it's the collective, again, the collective that leads, there has to be an opera, you know, a person that is responsible across, you know, maybe there's multiple people that are responsible across various departments that lead different types or different parts of an initiative that all heads into one major, major delivery, that collective needs to be working together. So I don't think business ownership is simply, you know, the business owning something, it has to be across the whole the whole company or the whole departments. And if that's done, then actually something valuable will be delivered. If it's not, then there's going to be issues along along the journey. And yes, you will deliver something But you must probably won't get as much value out of the delivery or the transformation, as you would have if you had thought about a collective delivery mechanism that allows you to propel forward and unlock more value.

Rebecca Turnbull:

So I know that we're running out of time. So I just want to make sure I get the most value for all of us here. You've worked with so many founders, and I know you've interviewed hundreds as well, on top of that, what are the three most important pieces of advice you'd give to a FinTech founder? I know I'm putting you on the spot. But it'd be great to see what springs to mind.

Unknown:

So, yes, it's a great question again. And it might be a bit cliched. But the three things that you want to say are culture, culture, and culture, symbolism. And you have to think about your people, you without, without, without the people in your in your company, you won't go anywhere, right. Or you might get somewhere but you won't achieve, ultimately what you want, or what you set out to achieve. So culture is going to play a huge role in any transformation or any scale of journey. And being an empathetic leader, that drives with purpose is going to really galvanize your, your company and make certain that that culture is someone that everyone buys into, because you want people to buy into your journey, not just to be there to pick up a paycheck. Because yeah, anyone can do a job. But you know, the hidden gems are the people that stay late because they're on their journey with you. And those are the people that you're trying to find.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Yeah, I think people who really share your passion and want to be part of the future of the company that, you know, have got like the resilience and tenacity to do the extra bit, obviously, keep that balance. They're thinking of your culture, even if people are paying doesn't mean it's always right.

Unknown:

Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Good point. I mean, our work life balance, yes. Hundreds.

Rebecca Turnbull:

I think the willingness, I think, you know, just that, you know, like, not feeling like, not feeling like work is work, when you're there shows you makes it makes a big impact that way.

Unknown:

Yeah. 100%. And, I mean, things have changed now. And as it is, it's really important to to have work life, or work life balance, and all of those things. But you know, and I know most we every single person is listening, listening knows that once you invested in something, you actually don't mind doing that you actually enjoy doing it. So whether that means you start at 10 in the morning and finish at eight at night, or start at six in the morning and finish at two in the afternoon. It sort of doesn't matter, you just get on with it. Because you enjoy it, you enjoy the people, you enjoy the culture, you enjoy the product that you're developing. So I think you know, focus on that focus on the culture, focus on the empathy, the purpose and all the other things that banks are saying and, you know, sooner or sooner rather than later, you guys gonna be, you know, the most spoke spoken about FinTech or tech company out there.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Yeah, and it will mean that those like top talents are attracted to your business in that situation if you focus heavily on your culture

Unknown:

100% And that's, that's, that's, that's, that's a big one as well. And so sorry, just to say, I mean, that is a huge one, because even read Reed Hastings, paper or LinkedIn, he, he focused on culture when he was building paper. And there's a guy called Elon Musk theater that came in so, you know, I think it's a big thing, and nothing that that should be underplayed.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Definitely. Thanks for sharing all of those insights, I feel like we've covered so much. So marching finance, trends, transformation, people culture, there's been a lot in the conversation. I'm certainly one of my takeaways is I'm gonna go and refresh my knowledge of Microsoft case studies and their transformation because it is one of the most successful ones the challenges they had at that point from Amazon and Google in particular, and where they'd fallen behind with mobile phones and clouds really fascinating.

Unknown:

Yeah, and I pleased do do the research and what I what I also recommend to to listeners out there, read up on these type of case studies that they're really interested in, because you can learn a lot from them, and I definitely do. I've learned a lot from Microsoft and Apple and, and other players out there and it's really great to, to take that into into work as well.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Definitely. But thanks so much, Richard. Hopefully we'll speak to you again soon.

Unknown:

Thanks, Ben. Awesome.

Rebecca Turnbull:

Thanks for listening to the Listen perspective. I'm Rebecca Hastings, founder and director at the Listen crib, a tech sector executive search and talent consultancy. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share it with others, post about it on social media or leave a rating and review. If you're a company looking to hire top technology leaders, or you'd like to discuss your next move, please reach out to me on LinkedIn or send me an email to Rebecca at the Listen group at dog co.uk. Thanks again for listening today.