Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
A podcast about practices to promote healthy lives featuring experts, businesses, and clients: we gather to share our stories about success, failure, exploration, and so much more. Our subscription episodes feature some personal and vulnerable, real-life stories that are sensitive to some of the general public.
Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
Joe Grumbine: The Sacred nature of medicine pt 2
Sacred plants have the power to heal or harm us—the difference lies entirely in our approach. After decades of working with various plant medicines and hosting ceremonies at our Gardens of Hope, I've witnessed both the profound healing potential and the troubling exploitation surrounding these traditions.
My own journey with tobacco perfectly illustrates this duality. For 13 years, I battled a serious addiction that began when I was just a teenager. Breaking free required what felt like a direct covenant with the divine—perhaps the hardest challenge I faced before my cancer diagnosis. Yet decades later, I've established a completely different relationship with tobacco, approaching it as a sacred medicine and prayer carrier rather than a substance to abuse. The plant hasn't changed, but my relationship with it has transformed entirely.
This transformation reflects a deeper truth about sacred medicines: their impact depends as much on our intention as their inherent properties. Unfortunately, we're witnessing an increasingly commercialized approach to spirituality—from wellness retreats to festival culture to self-proclaimed shamans offering quick fixes. What's missing in these contexts is often genuine reverence, proper preparation, and thorough integration. Too many people approach these medicines wanting to "get as high as possible" rather than seeking authentic healing.
When considering working with plant medicines, begin with meditation and honest self-reflection. Find guides whose energy feels authentic and whose lives demonstrate the positive impact of these practices. Trust your intuition about practitioners and remember that preparation and integration are as important as the ceremony itself. By approaching these sacred plants with humility rather than treating them as commodities, we honor both the medicines themselves and the traditions that have preserved their wisdom through generations.
Have you found yourself questioning the authenticity of modern spiritual practices? Share your experiences or questions in the comments—I'd love to continue this important conversation about maintaining the integrity of sacred healing traditions in our modern world.
Intro for podcast
information about subscriptions
Here is the link for Sunday's 4 pm Pacific time Zoom meeting
I don't know how to work with them in a sacred way and I don't know that I want to. The addictive nature of some things are very difficult. I recently reestablished a relationship with tobacco. Now, tobacco is a very, very sacred plant and it's also very, very abused and it's also very, very um, potentially dangerous to a lot of people it when and if abused. But if you work with the sacred side of it, in the sense of you work with its true spirit, with reverence and in a sacred way, I it's been used historically to carry a prayer. You know we're human beings and and you know it's funny I have a lot of people in my life that I've shared pretty deep experiences with that are spiritual and vulnerable and my connection to God, or source or spirit or creator, whatever, jesus.
Speaker 1:You know all the ways that we express our human experience of something that is not human, or even of this world for that matter. We live this three-dimensional, low vibrational life and even the best of us are just. We're animals and we got to really be honest about that. If you think about the nature of things in the universe and the creative power that is moving things, and again you can believe what you want. We all will do that. But I believe there's a creative force in this universe that causes everything to happen in a way that I'll never probably understand, and for me to be stuck holding a name or a face or a picture or an image or a set of words that applies to everything as the be-all and end-all, in my opinion, is limiting, and I know for many, many people it's good, it's enough, and I suppose it could be enough for me as well. But I believe in really the unlimited potential of the human experience. I believe we have inside of us the very particles that is that creative force, and that we have inside of us the ability to connect and become or be or use or express that part of us if we figure out or let ourselves and I'm sort of rambling because I'm talking about things I don't truly understand, but I've experienced and connected with and felt and I know them to be true on some level, even if I can't articulate them, and I'm just being honest about it.
Speaker 1:I don't pretend I'm not a hypocrite about my faith and my experience with what we call divinity. I do know this. I have been around many, many, many, many people of many, many different faiths and traditions and I have found generally the most hypocrisy in the people that are the most refined in a particular faith. You know, christians in particular. I am a Christian on some level. I believe in so many different things as to be true, but I don't limit the experience to that and say, well, that is the only truth. It is a truth that I can experience and understand in some way, and there are many truths that I cannot understand. And so when I walk with these sacred plants, it's my attempt to connect in a deeper way with that same experience, that same creative force, that same divinity that caused everything to happen in some way, a way that I don't understand necessarily, a way that I don't understand necessarily.
Speaker 1:And so, even a thing like the fire and I don't diminish that on any level you know we look at fire as the grandfather, as the source, the spirit. You know we talk about the fire in our heart, the fire in our soul, the fire that is our spirit. And then you look at an actual fire and you go, wow, what a connection. You know, even the sacred heart of jesus has a fire in it. There's a, there's an element, you know, and people say, well, fire's an element, it's a low vibrational, whatever but the truth is we don't know, we don't understand things. I know I've spent many, many, many, many hours tending fire and spending time just being immersed in the fire and I've seen things that I cannot explain. I've gotten messages, I've gotten clarity, I've gotten feelings, I've gotten all sorts of things that I've gotten messages, I've gotten clarity, I've gotten feelings, I've gotten all sorts of things that I've received and some might say, well, you're connecting with dark spirits, or you're connecting with something that's demonic, or you're connecting with something that is not what you think it is. And you know. The truth is we don't know. We don't know so many things, but I do know this.
Speaker 1:About nine years ago I don't know seven, eight, nine years ago, something like that a dear friend came over to my house, and this is a guy that was very chaotic. He's a good guy but had a lot of drama in his life and was had a very chaotic energy about him and was always all over the place. And one day he came to my house and he was a different person. He was transformed and he was calm. My house and he was a different person. He was transformed and he was calm and there was a warmth about him that I never had seen before that way, and he told me about this experience and he had worked with a medicine man up in Montana and he had done what he called a peyote meeting in a teepee and he shared with me a very small amount of this greenish powder and said you know, you try some, see what it tastes like. You know, see how you feel with it.
Speaker 1:I just took the teeniest little bit and I put it between my, my cheek and gum and almost immediately I felt it sort of travel throughout my body and like tingle, I felt my cells sort of tingle, and it was very positive, it was very light, it was very bright as an energy and I said, wow, there's something special here and I couldn't explain it. I didn't know what I was tapping into, I didn't know what I was connecting with, but I knew as a feeling, it was clear and it was good. It had my best interest in mind and I could feel that. And I think that you know, if we're working with, with spirit energy, that's where feelings can really come in, because if you're honest with yourself and your intentions are to become better, become healed, become a better person, become more loving. Whatever it is that you're seeking to do with these actions that you're taking, whatever they are, I think you know how you feel against that intention. I think you know how you feel against that intention and I think, if something is dark or not connected to God, spirit, source, creator, whatever however you express that term I think you feel it. I think you really do, and that's where accountability and honesty comes into. You know the sacred nature of these medicines.
Speaker 1:So back to tobacco. I had a 13 year running addiction with dip, copenhagen snuff, whatever you want to call it, and I started when I was 13 years old and before I turned 26,. I was having dreams that my tongue was falling out and my teeth were rotting and I was getting cancer just horrible dreams. I was like man. I got to quit this and it was the hardest thing I ever did. And ultimately I made a deal with God and I had to rely upon my faith to shoulder the burden of this. And I said, god, you know I need you. If you can take this from me, I'll carry it, but I need you to do it. And I felt that we made a deal, that I would have the faith that he would take that from me and in exchange I would receive the blessing of the relief of this. And it was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life aside from this cancer, I never have a new hardest thing in my life, but prior to that it was the hardest thing I've ever done and battling an addiction that just didn't want to let go and gave up a little teeny bit every day. Yeah, I mean by that I mean maybe the cravings uh lasted a fraction less and took a fraction more before the next one came, but over time it diminished and it's now been 35 years, 33, 34 years, since I've put a dip in my mouth and still, every now and again I get a little ache in my lip going, hey, what about me? And it'll never let go, probably.
Speaker 1:But recently I became acquainted with Rappe or Rappe, and that is a snuff that's blown up into your nose and it can be a blend of tobacco and other herbs. I've also worked with the tobacco smoke in the tipi. So in that tradition for the prayer you'll roll tobacco into a corn husk and smoke it, but generally you smoke it like a cigar. You're not inhaling it and I've even allowed myself to smoke a cigar, very in a very special place. I will acknowledge the sacredness of the tobacco and enjoy it in a reverent way and one time in a very special time. So I've allowed myself to reconnect with this plant in a different light than I did when I was dipping. And when I was dipping it was just a need, it was an addiction, it was a drug and I just put it in and kept it in my mouth all day long and it was just a bad, bad experience. It was just a bad, bad experience. But now, and with Rappe, most of the time I pass when it is passed around in ceremony, occasionally I will do it and when I do I request just the smallest, smallest amount, and when I do it I receive it and I connect with the Spirit on a prayerful plane and I use it as a guide, a tool to help me focus my intention in my prayer, and I believe I'm able to work with it in a way that um isn't bringing the addiction back. I don't have a desire, a deeper desire, to go out and buy a can of copenhagen or anything like I did before. So I'm happy about that.
Speaker 1:What I'm seeing a lot you know with with social media and this new, I don't know superficial freak show that we are in. You know Burning man and all the bullshit festivals and all this stuff. And it's not to say that there aren't good things in these things. You know all the new age shamans, all the. You know all the wellness retreats and all the exploitive situations. And you know it's just human nature. People find a thing that's good, that helps a person, and they maybe start out as a you a good notion. I know I could help more people, but then people come to you and you know they start sucking up to you because you have a thing they want.
Speaker 1:You know, for many, many years I I had the good pot and I learned the hard way that people would exploit you to get what you have and lead you to believe things were ways that they weren't and give, put you up on a pedestal and treat you differently. And you know, no matter who you are, you kind of fall into it to some degree. No matter, you know you stay humble, whatever. But it's like a drug, you know. And when people come up to you and say how great you are and this wonderful thing you have and they treat you so nice and well. They want to put money in your hand and and honor you for whatever. Um, it's hard to turn away from that and go. Well, that's bullshit. I'm just you, I'm just a different other person, even though you know that to be true and it's it's. It's a slippery slope and I know a lot of people find their way, especially when sex is involved.
Speaker 1:You know, a lot of people are young and pretty and they connect with older people that have needs and resources, and I've seen a lot of people take advantage of a lot of situations in the name of healing and in the name of these plant medicines and it's to me, you know, the false idols of the old testament. You know it's that kind of thing it's. It's not the same connection, even though the tools that they're using are the very same tools that the true healers are using, and that's where kind of I'm at right now. We created the Gardens of Hope. We spent 30 years building this garden and we've worked with people from all over the world in the last 30 years and we've worked with different spiritual traditions, we've worked with prayer groups, we've worked with all sorts of different plant medicines and healers and we have a teepee and we've run Navajo and Arapaho Northern Cheyenne meetings here on the property and had some amazing beautiful connections with amazing beautiful people. And some of those people have passed on and left behind a legacy of some of these medicines.
Speaker 1:And I've had experience, you know, with plant medicines, with animal medicines, with combo and bufo that are toad and frog medicines, that have some of the same chemicals that some of the plants have, and and again it a lot. Most of it, if not all of it, has to do with the intention and the way you approach it, the the people that you're working with and how they're approaching it as to the true value you can get from it. And I've worked with a number of different practitioners and some of them were technically good but I didn't connect with them. I didn't feel that their connection with me was maybe real or deep in a way that some of the others were. I can't judge what their connection with the medicine was, other than I just didn't feel the same way. And even though technically they did a good job, how they acted before and after maybe made a difference.
Speaker 1:You know, okay, we're done, I got to go and rather than spending time and integrating and, you know, being present and all of that sort of thing. You know it's hard, you can't really judge somebody else, you don't know where they are, what they've done, and that's part of our lessons is to, you know, be open and understanding and forgiving and loving and all of that. But in those situations I've been able to let go and say, well, I don't feel the connection to the practitioner, but I feel the connection to the medicine, so I will just work with the medicine and let it do what it needs to do, and that's how I've been able to keep my reverence together with it. I know that, you know, with cannabis and some of the other medicines that are recreational as well, I know a lot of the same people will go and you know mushrooms or peyote or any of these different medicines, and people will want to imbibe as much as they can. They want to go deeper and deeper. You know, just like when I ran my dispensary, I'd have people come and say give me the strongest you got. I just want the most, the most I can get. I want to go as far as I can, and that was the ambition rather than, you know, let me connect with this medicine, let me connect with spirit, let heal myself. I want to find healing um big difference.
Speaker 1:And so I notice a lot of times in different ceremonies, um working with the right people, the right practitioners, facilitators, shamans, medicine people whatever that the term you want to use are. There are generally people that run these things and they know the songs and they know the prayers and they have the tools to bring about the, the beauty and the value of the tradition. And then there's other people that you know they show up and it's a party and you know they're there to you know get high or get get, go on their journey, whatever they want to call it, but they're the ones that are disruptive. They're the ones that'll sit at the fire and be yapping to the person next to or or being a spectacle in some way, and it can diminish or distract from the people that are truly trying to find healing. And so these are things that I've discovered, whether it's, you know, false prophets, if you will, practitioners that maybe have their own agenda, maybe it's not as clean and pure as you might want and hope, maybe it's the disruptive person or the person who's sort of trying, or maybe they got something else on their mind, maybe they're trying to hook up with the cutie across the room. Whatever it is, there's always these, you know, human issues at stake.
Speaker 1:Another piece of this puzzle is the preparation and integration. You know, a lot of times people will say, oh, I'm going to do a ceremony, whatever ayahuasca or peyote or what you are whatever, whatever your medicine of choice is but they might be drinking or smoking weed, or doing coke the day before, or eating lousy food or, you know, just doing all the things that are not what that medicine's about, and not honoring it with a preparation, not not, um, preparing the body. You know, the whether, regardless of where your connection to spirit comes from, your body is a temple and you're going to put this medicine into your body. What is? What is it? What is it that you're putting it into? You know you, did you just eat a bunch of junk food? Did you just drink a bunch of whiskey? Did you just smoke a bunch of weed? Or do some coke? Or meth or heroin or whatever? It is your drug of choice and that's still affecting you while you're going to go and take this sacred medicine.
Speaker 1:Or are you preparing? Are you giving yourself some time to cleanse yourself and eat well and maybe not do the things that distract us and cause us problems. And then what about afterward? Do you just jump right back into your chaotic life and get in a fight with your spouse and eat some shitty food and, you know, jump right back onto your phone and scroll all day long or whatever it is that you do? That is not healthy. Are you doing that? Or are you giving yourself some time to sit with this medicine and give it a chance to come in and do all it can do?
Speaker 1:These are really important elements to these medicines and I just really wanted to share that experience. I am just a guy who's on a path, trying to be the best person I can be and trying to find my health and trying to get past this cancer and be the best person I can be, and I'm not chasing every medicine. I'm not doing it because I haven't done it. If it comes to me in a time when I feel that it's what I need, when I need it, then I open the door. But there's many medicines I've not tried and I don't know if I will.
Speaker 1:It just depends on you know if they come to me when it's when it's my time, so I just wanted to share these things with you, and if you're considering going down a pathway to some of these ethnobotanical indigenous practices medicines, treatments, ceremonies Take some time, sit with it, start with the meditation and see where it guides you, find somebody that you know and trust, find somebody that has been positively affected by this and not in a superficial way. You know um you can tell, be honest, start owning your own actions and your own words and your own thoughts and be honest about them, and then your intuition starts to come alive and opens the door for some of these better choices to happen. All right, this has been another episode of the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, joe Grumbine, and I thank you for all your support and we will see you next time.
