Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
A podcast about practices to promote healthy lives featuring experts, businesses, and clients: we gather to share our stories about success, failure, exploration, and so much more. Our subscription episodes feature some personal and vulnerable, real-life stories that are sensitive to some of the general public.
Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
Navigating Cancer Treatment with Trust and Teamwork featuring Dr Robert Hoffman
A deeply personal and hopeful conversation unfolds as host Joe Grumbine shares remarkable progress in his cancer treatment journey alongside trusted colleague Dr. Robert Hoffman. Their exchange reveals the profound impact of finding the right medical team – one that listens, engages, and treats patients as partners rather than passive recipients of care.
Joe's voice brightens as he describes his oncologist, Dr. Song, who defies modern medical norms by personally administering treatments, performing blood tests before each session, and taking time to understand Joe's unique approach to healing. This level of personalized attention has created something rare in cancer care: absolute trust. Their relationship showcases how medical practitioners who combine technical expertise with genuine compassion can transform the patient experience during life's most challenging moments.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as they explore complementary approaches to standard treatments. From a Korean heat therapy technique using hot water foot soaks to methionine restriction protocols, these evidence-based strategies exist not to replace conventional medicine but to enhance its effectiveness while preserving quality of life. Dr. Hoffman shares a recently published case study about a Japanese woman with widespread metastasis who achieved remarkable recovery through combined approaches when traditional medicine alone had offered little hope.
Perhaps most valuable for listeners facing cancer diagnoses are the insights about patient advocacy. Both men emphasize how crucial it is to move beyond the shock of diagnosis and actively participate in treatment decisions. Their Sunday support group has empowered countless patients to seek second opinions, ask better questions, and explore comprehensive approaches rather than passively accepting standard care that often delivers merely standard outcomes.
As Joe prepares for his final round of chemotherapy with growing optimism about his prognosis, this episode stands as a powerful testament to how combining scientific rigor, open-minded exploration, and human connection can transform the cancer journey from one of despair to one of hope and possibility.
Join our supportive community by subscribing to the Healthy Living Podcast and discover how integrative approaches are helping patients defy expectations and reclaim their health.
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Here is the link for Sunday's 4 pm Pacific time Zoom meeting
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, joe Grumbine, and although it's been far too long, we have back with us Dr Robert Hoffman. Robert, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2:Nice to be here, Joe, as always.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, it's been a few weeks since we've actually seen each other. Yeah, it's been a few weeks since we've actually seen each other. Yeah, it's been a while. I've even missed the call, and one week was because I was just out of it. Last week, our internet was down all day long. I don't know what happened.
Speaker 2:All right, that's all right. Here we are.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Well, that's the good news about working with good people is, you know, we're always there for each other and we do what we can every time. So that's right, that's for sure. I definitely want to catch up with you and the work you've been doing. I wanted to share with you kind of a little update on my situation, and you know it's actually very positive. You know, working with Dr Song has been a godsend.
Speaker 1:Once again, this is a doctor who I literally told the last time I saw him. You know, doctor, I've never said this before to a doctor, but I trust you and you know I've had a lot of doctors in my life. My dad was a doctor. I never said that to him. I loved him. But you know, as a doctor he did things that I didn't necessarily want done and I never knew really what was going on.
Speaker 1:Something about this guy he spends time every time they do an infusion. He's the one who puts that in my port, he actually told me. He says you know, joe, they did a good job with your port, they installed it well, and now what doctor's going to take the time to notice that and share that? Right? Right, I mean, he really like he pays attention to every little thing. He reminded me when we were talking about like every time I come to him with a thought or an idea, like I asked him the last time, not the last time, the time before that I saw him I says well, you know, what do you think about sauna? Because I have a sweat lodge at my place and we do that. I do steam sauna and I know that cancer doesn't like heat and it likes a cold environment and anaerobic environment. So you know, I've been doing that. But he said you know, joe, my wife loves the sauna, she loves the steam sauna, but one time she burnt her lungs, you know. You know, sometimes we steam junkies we go a little too far, you know you, you think you're invincible.
Speaker 1:You crank that thing up, you take a deep breath and, ooh ow, you know you can get some hot steam in there. And he says you know, she got an infection that turned into pneumonia. It turned out to be a problem for her. He says that generally doesn't happen but it could. And he says you know, I told her there's an old Korean technique that can avoid all of that.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like an infrared system. He goes you just take two buckets, two five-gallon buckets, and you put your feet in them. And then you take hot water, hot as you can stand, and you pour it over your feet and you just keep that water, keep adding to it until that, you know, eventually the bucket fills up. But you keep it as hot as you can stand. And he says what happens is your core will heat up. You know your feet transmit heat pretty quickly and you know, before you know it you'll be sweating. And he says you don't have to expose your body to the outside temperature the way that the steam sauna does, and you don't have to worry about breathing in all that steam and in fact you don't even have to go inside a closed room, a box. You can sit outside and talk to your wife or watch TV or work on your computer, whatever you want to do. And I says, wow, what a thoughtful gesture, right? I mean for this guy, right, right, that's Dr.
Speaker 1:Song what a thoughtful gesture, right, I mean for this right. Right, that's dr song. I have an alternative that's like yeah, I agree, he goes, he goes to me, he goes. How did you know that? You know the, the heat, I go, you know me, I'm always researching, I go. I'm always trying to find ways to make me stronger and the cancer weaker, and he likes that about me. He says you know, he didn't say it, but I know. When I ask him certain questions he's like well, you're actually thinking about this and I can. I think that's why he engages me that way. But then I watch him.
Speaker 1:I sit in the infusion room right, and it's a small room, maybe about I don't know eight by twelve or something like that. It's a pretty small room, three chairs in it, old fashioned. You know UCI, they got these really fancy IV rigs and they've got all these different monitors and sensors. And you know you hook up four bags at the same time and they hook into these things. He's got this old metal rack. It's literally just a hook, a metal hook with an adjustable up and down on it and wheels on. That's all you need, I know exactly. And he hooks that bag up there and it has a little sort of a metering device. It's just a simple little like a pinch thing and you lift it up or down and let the thing drip, more or less.
Speaker 1:But I watch him and he puts the needle in everybody's port or if they have another way that they do it, and his partner does too. He's got this partner from I don't know from Europe, somewhere, I don't know where it might be, germany, but he has an accent, pretty strong accent, but this doctor does the same somewhere, I don't know where it might be, germany, but he has an accent, pretty strong accent, but this doctor does the same thing. I've never seen a nurse or a physician's assistant ever put in or take out a needle. It's always the actual doctor and I thought, man, that's really special, that's unique, like at UCI. I think UCI is doing a good job, I don't think anything ill of them, but I've never seen a doctor.
Speaker 1:When I'm getting an infusion, it's always a nurse or nurse practitioner or some sort of a, not a doctor, and so it's a different experience. And so this last time you know, know, I got the infusion. He gives me the, the dose of taxol, half of it or no, no, he gives me all the dose of taxol, half of the cisplatin, and then he sends me home with the pump with the five fluoruracil, and then friday I come back and he takes the pump out and he gives me the last, the cisplatin, and he tells me about. You know really what he's doing. He asked me a lot of questions. He takes blood. Every time I see him he does a blood test, little finger test and they check out. I don't know what all they're looking, but I see it. I don't know what all they're looking, but I see it.
Speaker 1:I don't know what everything stands for yet, but he knows, prior to me doing that infusion, that my body's ready for it. And if there's an issue, sometimes they'll say, well, your protein's a little low. And I go, I know my diet doesn't allow me a lot of protein, but I'm doing pretty good. I know my diet doesn't allow me a lot of protein, but I'm doing pretty good. And he's like, yeah, you're okay, just keep your eye on it. And then he might well generally after the infusion and then the following week I go in for the immunotherapy. So he gives me a few days off and then I go into the immunotherapy and he does blood then too, and he'll say well, you know, your white blood cell counts down. I says, well, you just gave me a whole bunch of chemo. You know what do you think it's going to do? And he smiles, he goes. I know he says but we're going to watch you.
Speaker 1:And sometimes he'll have me call in. Last time he had me come in and he was asking me a lot of questions about my diet because he knows about my diet, and so this time I came in he said well, I want you to come in Friday. So I came in Wednesday to get the Keytruda, the immunotherapy, and then I came down Friday just to talk about the blood result, because you know they always take blood. I drove down there just to have a two-minute conversation with him. It was worth it.
Speaker 1:And this guy sits with me and he asked me about my diet and he said well, do you eat this? Do you eat that? Do you eat this, do you eat that? And I went through and and you know some of the foods they said yes to, some I said no to and I explained why.
Speaker 1:Many understood. And he had this little chart up on the wall and it's. It says like uh, you know green vegetables, um, you know onions, beans, it's just you know it's a good diet plan strategy and I said I basically follow that. You know I just am very careful with the protein, I don't. You know I'm very careful with my nuts, I'm very careful with the legumes and you know there's just certain foods that I avoid. And he understood, you know he didn't fight me on it. He's still not sure I could tell he kind of goes, you know he says it's not hurting you, so he's not telling me not to do it. He just still doesn't necessarily agree with. I don't think he understands truly the nature of what the cancer's relationship with methionine is.
Speaker 2:He doesn't understand, and the other day he asked you if you're on glutamine restriction or something Exactly.
Speaker 1:So because of that, I recognize that he knows very well the things he knows, and he knows a lot more than any other doctor I've ever talked to about the things I'm dealing with and this is a thing that I'm not going to force down his throat no, you don't need to.
Speaker 2:And this is the thing that I'm not going to force down his throat, but I can tell you don't need to. Oh, you, you, you, you, every you know we go with his strength and he's got. Maybe he's one of the leaders, if not the leader in the world, and he doesn't have to know anything about methionine. We know about methionine.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly about methionine, exactly exactly, and so that's kind of a beauty that I I really wanted to share with you, because I see him recognizing the value of what I'm doing without necessarily understanding it, and he's not telling me not to do it, he's he's just saying you know, you go, do your thing, you're doing well. And um, so this last time, this last Friday, when I went out there, I drove almost two hours to go and see him for five minutes, waited in his office for an hour and a half before he could see me and it was okay. I just I smiled, I go, you know, but-.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that five minutes is a treasure.
Speaker 1:Oh, when I went in there he ended up spending 15 minutes with me and he goes over every little detail and he says I said so how am I doing, doc? I mean, you know what do you think? He says he says you're handling the medication, the chemo, remarkably well. And he says I know these drugs. He goes every. He reminded me that you know. Again, he was on the team that discovered cisplatin. And he says you know, this is not an easy treatment. And he said but you're doing well. And he said you know you're recovering well, your white blood cells have recovered. And he hasn't had to give me that I forget the drug, but UCI was always giving me after the five fluors, so they gave me this drug to cause my bone marrow to produce white blood cells better yeah, it's probably one of these so-called colony stimulating factors, something like that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I believe so. So he said well, if you give it to you without you needing it, it can kind of overstimulate your system and maybe have some negative side effects and you don't need it. Why take it Right? So that's his thinking. I'm like wow, great thinking, yeah, yeah, I mean you know His mind is very clear oh my God, this guy's sharp as a tack and again, his eyes aren't real good.
Speaker 1:I see him. He's got a magnifying glass. He holds his glasses up to it when he needs to, but boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Every little thing, every little detail. He's on point and he's got a great staff. You can tell his nurses love him, his patients love him. It's just a beautiful environment down there.
Speaker 1:Had you not remembered that you knew him 40 years ago and reached out to him, I know if I had cold called him and I just discovered him on my own, he wouldn't have seen me. No, he's not taking new patients, but he remembered you and you told him the story. Maybe he remembered me, I don't know, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. But you told him a story in such a way that he recognized the value and he did take me, and I'm really, you know, still kind of really taken by that. That's really like it's part of this series of miracles that have gotten me to the. You know where I'm at now. But what he said was you're, you're on a good road. He's ordered an MRI. Now I'm getting ready to take my final round of this infusion. And he said in his mind that this Keytruda is going to be our maintenance. He says I think that if we do this right and it's working, that that can be your, your long-term maintenance. So he's already thinking that would be great. I know, and I'm already doing well with that, like I don't seem to have any negative side effects from that.
Speaker 1:I've had two rounds of it so far and it doesn't seem to like right after I take it. I haven't noticed anything really negative. So hopefully, you know he's checking my kidneys, he's checking my. You know all different. He's monitoring a lot of stuff. I see these blood results come back and I don't know what they all stand for because you know there's little abbreviations for things and I haven't studied them all. But the ones I do know, you know the nutrients and the, the, the um, uh, immunosystem markers and that kind of stuff. I do recognize and I'm within the bounds with, you know, not a flag on just about everything. Anything I've been over or under, it's been just by a hair, so I've not really gone over any major line with this protocol. And the fact that he told me that you know he's expecting, when I get these scans, that we're going to be complete, I'm kind of excited about that.
Speaker 1:Now the downside is and I'm becoming very aware that this chemo has sort of an accumulative effect, because I know that each round that I've gotten in this second version has hit me a little harder, and by that I mean, you know, the nausea has been fairly consistent and been difficult to keep my weight, getting my weight back. So, like this time around, I don't think I'm going to do a full fast, I'm going to do fasting, mimicking, and I'll be OK with that. I just I didn't gain all my weight back this time, even though I've been trying no-transcript. If I feel tired, I just sleep. I said that's what my body needs right now. I'm not worried about it. Only one more to go, joe. Exactly, exactly, one more. I'm kind of looking at it like Muhammad Ali.
Speaker 2:When you poke yourself, what do you feel?
Speaker 1:You know, I can definitely feel this thing. The little bit of hardness that is left is getting smaller and I can feel both sides of my neck feeling a lot more the same now. So we're definitely making progress in the last of it, and remember, you remember how big that thing was? I know oh boy, the grapefruit. I know Exactly and I know for a fact that some of this mass is just necrotic tissue, it's just dead tissue.
Speaker 2:It seems that way, and we will prove that with methionine pet in Japan.
Speaker 1:Exactly Exactly that with methionine pet in Japan. Exactly exactly. So I'm kind of getting excited that you know we're going to, we're going to, he's going to declare full remission and that there's no cancer left. Now we still know that it's likely there's stem cells and circulating tumor cells that will have to be dealt with on a regular basis. But you know what everybody has, those that will have to be dealt with on a regular basis. But you know what Everybody has, those and it's not that-.
Speaker 2:Well, you're going to stay on methionine restriction and you'll go on Keytruda maintenance Exactly Sounds good and we'll monitor.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. And the way I see it, when I go to Japan and I get the all clear, we'll set a plan that says well, every whatever year 18 months, two years, whatever we determine that sort of magic number is we'll go back and do it again, Hopefully, you know, my hope really is that the technology finds its way over here and stays here. You know, we know we have it. They do brain scans with it, Right, but they do.
Speaker 2:There's a few clinics that do brain scans but they don't do the full body scan.
Speaker 1:Not that I know of it's hard to come. I've never seen it Exactly so and hell. I've never been to Japan and I've heard nothing but amazing about it.
Speaker 2:you're going to love it. Scott had the time of his life. I heard that.
Speaker 1:I heard that, so the last time I saw you, you had just done this interview with a Russian.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Russian TV.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I did end up seeing that. Now I went to see it live and I don't know, maybe they must have played it like later on, but I watched it from 9 till probably 9, 30 and it was.
Speaker 2:Did you get the video recording?
Speaker 1:yeah, I finally saw the video recording of it so I was able to see. Did you get?
Speaker 2:the translated text.
Speaker 1:I did yep, yep, I got both of that, so I was able to um, thanks to shihiro and you guys and cynthia. I think she's the one who put that together.
Speaker 2:I don't know who did it, but oh, shihiro put it together, okay, and it was Dr Exame who got the translation through his.
Speaker 1:AI, I love it. I love it. Well, that just shows the beauty of this team. When I see the group that meets on Sundays, I look at it as a team. You've got all these people.
Speaker 2:It's a team. You got all these people. It's a team and.
Speaker 2:Joe, I'll tell you, and for the folks listening, I really appreciated what the Russian TV did. So the whole theme was based on an interview of Joe Rogan and Mel Gibson Got it. And Mel Gibson goes on and says I have three friends and they were stage four cancer and all they took was ivermectin, fenbendazole and methylene blue and they're all cancer free. Right, of course that's a real hard one to believe, right, of course that's a real hard one to believe, right? So at the first, I don't know what exactly came through on the interview, but the first thing they asked me is what do you think about that? I said it has no meaning for me because I only take information from peer-reviewed papers in recognized journals. That's what I said. And then they said are you worried that patients will refuse standard therapy and do what Mel Gibson said to do? And I said well, my patients don't refuse standard therapy, right, that's what I said. Those are basically the main points. Is, you know, people get on and they're so glib and they talk.
Speaker 2:Oh and then you know it was all about a conspiracy. The pharmaceutical companies don't want you to know about ivermectin. In my experience, joe, my own experience the pharmaceutical companies don't even have any idea whether you know ivermectin or don't know ivermectin completely out of their radar. They don't give a darn. What about that? They're out to sell their drugs.
Speaker 1:Exactly that's why they buy commercials. That's yeah, they're out to make money.
Speaker 2:No, hey, yes, hey. What a revelation. Commercial company wants to make money. So you know all this conspiracy therapy theories, I don't buy it. The pharmaceutical company people say to me why aren't the pharmaceutical companies interested in methionine? They don't see it to make any money, they don't see making money from it. It's not cool, like immunotherapy and Keytruda, and fashionable. I get it, but it's nothing to do with conspiracy, it's just human nature. These companies want to make a buck. We, little or less we say what they make is, is, is, uh, necessary, but for for a lot of the time, a lot of the patients, it's not, it's not sufficient. We need more, we need to add on to it absolutely that's what we want to do.
Speaker 2:So you know, like Dr Exame says, standard therapy gives you standard outcome. Okay, standard outcome is a heck of a lot better than nothing.
Speaker 1:But we want to improve it. Right, yeah, three to five years is great, if that's all you think you have to live. But the answer is about solving the problem Many patients.
Speaker 2:we can do better. We think so. We haven't proved it, but a lot of patients are doing well, like you.
Speaker 1:Right, you've got Dr Exime, you've got Gene, you've got Chihiro, you've got Cynthia, you've got all these people that are yes, yes.
Speaker 2:And a whole ton of patients in Japan, 20 years from now, all these things Disappearing?
Speaker 1:Yes, you know, and that's huge. And I think there's another layer to this, doc, and it has to do with quality of life and you know the the standard of care only solution generally includes one or more very invasive, very disruptive, potentially devastating answers, meaning extended radiation. I'm not saying all radiation's bad. There's some people that have done very well.
Speaker 2:Joe, if we need it, it's there for us Exactly, and there's times when we have no choice. We need it, but in your case we had a choice. It was clear. We had a choice. At some point we think there's no choice, we're going to use it.
Speaker 1:Oh you bet. I mean, my goal is to stay alive and and give myself the very best quality of life that I can, that I can muster. That's exactly what you're doing. Yeah, absolutely, and I, I think you know, in talking to various different doctors and you know, I've, I've been blessed, I've had a lot of great guests on the show in the last several months and some physicians.
Speaker 1:I talked to a plastic surgeon last week from Beverly Hills. He's probably real close to Dr Castro where he operates from, but this guy was actually a good guy. You think plastic surgeon, you're like, ah, you're just, you know, whatever You're taking care of, the movie stars. But the truth is a lot of plastic surgery is reconstructive. A lot of it has way more to do with healing and health than just, you know, vanity work, and it's not all cosmetic at all. No, no. And but the point was, is this guy's approach was let's do the least harmful thing to get the most results? And I said, wow, I wish more oncologists would think that way, you know, and it doesn't seem that the standard of care has that approach it has.
Speaker 2:It's how you use the standard of care Correct Standard of care has surgery, it has chemotherapy and we'll consider the immunotherapy as part of chemotherapy, I believe. So yeah, and it has radiology. Okay, how are we going to use it? Right, if we're going to do what they told you to do at UCI take the chemo and get irradiated at the same time and get a surgery? That didn't seem very smart to me. I don't know if you remember, mark, mark Lichty came over, came and visited us and he said he's going to get chemo and or androgen ADT, androgen deprivation therapy and radiation. I said, hey, mark, why you need the radiation right now? Let's ADT is really powerful. Let's start with that, let's see how you do. We can always come back for the radiation. The ADT is not sufficient. And he really listened. I think he may go that way.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic and I think that's one of the real powers of the group, because a lot of times we get a new person that comes in and they just came back from their first trip to the oncologist. You know, they just got diagnosed and the first recommendation that they receive is you know, well, we're going to do this. And you know to anybody who's ever been diagnosed or has a loved one who's been diagnosed, it's like a two by four across your skull. You know, you just are all of a sudden going whoa, I'm a healthy person. Now they're telling me I have cancer.
Speaker 1:And it's hard to swallow, no matter who you are, no matter what happens, no matter what, even if it's a seemingly minor thing, you know, it's still like wow, that's for reals now. And I think, whatever the doctor tells you after that, you're kind of in a fog, like you're like whoa, you know, and I don't think you're ever going to, no matter who you are, I don't think you're ever going to process that. Well, whoops, I think we lost you for a second. Hello, okay, okay, okay, yeah, all right, no worries, let me put you on speaker then. All right, all right, kim, you hear me okay.
Speaker 2:I hear you really good.
Speaker 1:All right, perfect, we're going to do a hybrid solution here. Okay, one of these days we're going to have to get you a new phone. I know that phone. You put that thing to a lot of work. I see that thing overheat a few times.
Speaker 1:But anyways, we get these people that come on to the Sunday afternoon call and they've just been hit with this diagnosis and it's like a ton of bricks and even if you're a loved one, to hear that your loved one has been diagnosed with cancer and we all know that, even if they say, oh well, it's very treatable, any cancer, can turn into a death sentence, sure, and then they tell you, well, this is what we're going to do. And you know what? You really can't process it. You know, it's just like you, just kind of it's like you got sucker punched and you're just sitting here, kind of like the little cartoon birdies flying around your head and and you just go.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know, I and a lot of people, what I'm finding out, especially in this group that I'm in on Facebook with the squamous cell carcinoma people, is that a lot of people get diagnosed and then they have to wait weeks or even months to get that first appointment and you know if you're dealing with an aggressive cancer like head and neck squamous cell carcinoma, weeks and months can make a difference. When it's spreading or, you know, developing a blood system or all the different things that happen. You can't give it any extra time and it kind of blows me away that you know that you can go from a biopsy diagnosis and then have to wait weeks or a month to see an oncologist. But that's just our system, I guess right now the way it is.
Speaker 2:Well, you have to be very proactive and not tolerate that.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:You're not going to see me, then I'm going to go see somebody else.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:If you have a cancer, you just can't be passive about it, although part of the patients are.
Speaker 1:Many people are.
Speaker 2:Well.
Speaker 1:I think that that's a big part of what this group is. The importance of this group is, you know, we share that urgency and take charge of yourself exactly, and when they see somebody do it, it's generally a lot easier to do it yourself.
Speaker 1:You know, like, yes, when, when you're out there in the, in the, in the field, all by yourself, and you don't know anything and you're just like, well, I don't know what to do, but I know I need to do something and you know you try whatever. But when you got somebody standing next to you going, all right, well, you know, here's some things I did. At least it gives you some kind of a map or a guidebook that says, well, okay, and I believe that this group has probably helped more than a handful of people. Oh for sure, get on the helped more than a handful of people. Oh for sure, get on the course of a lot of people, just a lot of people. Not even just getting better, but actually probably save some lives, is what my guess is.
Speaker 2:I think so.
Speaker 1:And I think that you know you've got to be awful proud of that and know that you know you're the heart of this thing. There wouldn't be a, there wouldn't be a Sunday afternoon group if there wasn't a Dr Hoffman.
Speaker 2:So we're all in it together, Joe, all contributing.
Speaker 1:We are absolutely so. I always like to get to a little piece of this. It's it's not a. It's not little because it's not important. It's little because there's always tidbits that come out and that I learned from, and I know that others, the listeners, do as well. You talk so much about. You know the published peer-reviewed sources of information, as that's where you work from, that's where you get your information from. But it's more than that. You contribute to these things. You have published more papers than anybody I know, by a long shot, but by even most physicians, most researchers. You just have an extensive range of papers that you've published and I know just recently there was a paper that came out. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:Okay, so this is a patient in Japan and she was diagnosed with breast cancer. She was diagnosed with breast cancer and I don't, I don't know what happened, but she got literally whole body metastasis, Yikes, and this. So she went to see our Dr Sato in in Japan and in the flowers away from Tokyo in Japan, in the flowers away from Tokyo, and he started her on a type of immunotherapy, his special kind of X-ray, which is not really the radiation treatment we think about, and she started on methioninase and a low methionine diet and in I don't know five months or a relatively short time, she cleared all metastasis except in her liver. And that's what we published. And Dr Sato told me very recently she's now just on methionine restriction and maybe a little bit glucose restriction and the liver metastasis is regressing Nice. So that's the story in that paper. The paper only goes to the point of metastasis clearing, except the liver, and maybe we'll publish a follow-up paper after her liver is cleared.
Speaker 1:But that is so.
Speaker 2:Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1:No, I was going to say that is just so remarkable.
Speaker 2:It's remarkable I mean, you look at the image, it's a regular PET scan, right, she's just full of metastasis, yeah, and she clears. And she is. The Japanese have a special kind of comic book, much more sophisticated than our comic books. Okay, it's called Manga, uh-huh, and she is a manga. She does kind of medical manga, medical comic books, okay, and she draws, wow, comic books. All right, and she's going to do a manga story based on her own cancer therapy. Wow, she's gonna do it I love it.
Speaker 1:love it now. I don't know the statistics, but it's what I understand and and the information I've received is that most people when metastasis has gone to that place where it's spread, generally it's a death sentence, Like there's not Well her hospital told her to go to hospice.
Speaker 1:Right. Instead she went to Dr Sato. I love it. I love it Because, if you think about it, there's no surgery that can operate, because it's spread out throughout your body. There's no radiation that you can't treat, because radiation is a localized treatment and chemotherapy generally by itself isn't strong enough to knock out something that's spread in all these different systems, because there's different kinds of chemo for different kinds of systems and it doesn't seem like I mean, I think most people, when, when, when you say metastasize throughout your body, that to me says well, you're, you know you're done, you know there isn't anybody says yes but we've learned from her it's not necessarily so.
Speaker 2:It may be in some cases Sure, but it's not necessarily so. And so somehow she was smart enough and lucky enough to contact Dr Sato.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And she's going to live.
Speaker 1:Sounds like Dr Sato is kind of like our Dr Song out here.
Speaker 2:He's a kind of Dr Song.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2:A kind of modern Dr Song.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean he's got all the new tools and all the things, but Dr Song is working magic with the chemo tools. Oh, you bet he is, you bet he is I strove. Yeah, no, there's just no doubt at all, and I believe this other doctor that he's working with is probably kind of a nut. What's the?
Speaker 2:name of this other doctor.
Speaker 1:I don't know him offhand. I'll take a picture of the thing and I'll get it. That's one thing. That this has hit me so hard is my memory Just remembering little things has been it's called chemo brain Joe.
Speaker 2:I tell you Clear up.
Speaker 1:You know it's so funny, robert. I've had people in my life tell me about this and I always kind of poo-pooed it. I was like, yeah, whatever, you know, it's like in my mind, it's like depression. I never had it, so I never understood it. I never had empathy, and boy, I got an empathy bucket now.
Speaker 2:It clears up. Chihiro had it. Almost everybody has it. Yeah, it clears up.
Speaker 1:No, I expect that I'm looking forward to you know again. That's where I say this chemo solution to me has been a godsend Because, as far as I understand and the doctor's monitoring my kidneys very well unless I was to not hydrate myself enough it could do damage to the kidneys and possibly Platinum attacks the kidney Right.
Speaker 2:That's why Dr Song is being so careful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And he gives me hydration with every infusion and I'm always drinking. I'm always drinking water, coconut water, smoothies. I'm a drinking fool. Tea, I'm always. You know, I'm constantly. I monitor my urine color, I mean if it gets a little darker than a little nice and clear I'm on, I'm on it.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I I feel very strong and confident that, um, you know, my kidneys are going to come out just fine and when I'm done with this thing I'm going to completely recover, because remember, I went almost eight weeks between cycles and I was recovering remarkably well. My hair was starting to grow back and my head was getting clearer. The taste was leaving my mouth, I was putting weight on pretty strong. So I'm looking forward to getting back to that and I don't think the Keytruda has that kind of a side effect.
Speaker 2:No, no, Keytruda's different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So I'm excited. I know that you submitted that case study on my case.
Speaker 2:It's right on schedule now.
Speaker 1:Beautiful.
Speaker 2:My guess is it'll come out about the beginning of November.
Speaker 1:I love it. I can't wait to share that with Dr Song.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now you see what I'm saying. Exactly, exactly. He'll look at it a little differently after that. I'm very confident. I am too. So anyways, well, robert, it's a treat. I feel like it's been way too long since we talked, and I'm glad that we're catching up. Me too, I look forward to it. Monday I get my infusion, but we'll see how I'm doing. I started really early this time, so it's possible we'll be able to come by and drop by and see you this time.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, All right.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you once again for joining us to come by and drop by and see you this time. Okay, okay, so all right. Well, thank you once again for joining us.
Speaker 2:This has been. It's been my pleasure, Joe, always to be on your program.
Speaker 1:I love it. I believe we're helping people. I get people that tell me All you need to do is listen. Exactly, this has been another episode of the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, joe Grumbine, and we will see.
