Trauma, Therapy, And The Mosaic Of You with Scott Stolarick

What if feeling truly safe was the first step to feeling truly better? We sit down with licensed psychotherapist Scott Stolarick to explore how trauma ripples through the body, why listening can be more powerful than lecturing, and how the right pace turns resistance into real change. From mapping family systems with genograms to giving adolescents the mic, Scott shows how a nonthreatening, collaborative approach builds trust—and why trust is the doorway to any lasting result.

We take a clear, practical tour of EMDR therapy—what it is, why bilateral stimulation helps the brain process stuck memories, and how targets are chosen with informed consent. Scott explains what progress looks like: not erasing memories, but shrinking their charge so they become part of a larger narrative rather than a trap. You’ll hear the subtle line between healthy vigilance and over-desensitization, and why dialing a “ten” down to a “three” can restore calm without blunting wise caution.

Scott also draws on decades of work in corrections, reflecting on accountability, reentry, and the difficult good of helping people few are eager to help. That perspective feeds his guiding metaphor: each of us is a mosaic. Up close, life looks like scattered pieces; step back, and a coherent picture emerges. If you’ve wondered why your body keeps the score, how to advocate for your pace in therapy, or whether EMDR might fit your healing path, this conversation brings grounded answers and usable insight.

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SPEAKER_00 0:12

Well, hello, and welcome to the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grombine, and today we've got a very special guest. His name is Scott Stoleric, and uh he's a licensed psychotherapist who's been practicing in the state of Illinois for over 30 years. And Scott brings a non-threatening approach to the in the to the clinical context, placing a high value on the importance of establishing rapport and safety for those he serves. He's a believer in the collaborative approach to healing, empowering clients to play an active role in their movement towards health. And that is beautiful. Scott, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Great, Joe. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Well, it's my pleasure. You know, this is a broad scoped podcast about healthy living, but really mind, body, and spirit is important. We talk a lot about the body. Um, and sometimes we talk about the mind and the spirit. So this is great to go into the, I don't know, I think that maybe some of the most important part of health.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah, there's such a connection. Um, doing a lot of work with trauma over the years, it's it's very clear that when individuals come in to focus on trauma treatment, there's often accompanying somatic uh symptoms that they report that, you know, are, in my opinion, very much uh connected to their emotional experience.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Oh, absolutely. You know, there's the concept of psychosomatic, right? And the truth is your mind can create any symptom from you know an itch to a dead limb. I mean, you know, anything. Your your mind can do it all.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

You're very powerful. Yeah, very powerful. And um, you know, when uh when when folks feel you know tangled or stuck or misguided uh in that emotional domain, they often they often feel it physically, um, and they often run into situations medically where they really don't have answers.

Scott’s Path Into Psychotherapy

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Exactly. You know, especially today, you get diagnosed in 30 seconds, and if you don't hit the box, um sometimes they just don't know what's wrong with you. And you know, they throw medicine at it and it doesn't work, and uh, you know, you can get stuck in a bad loop. You know, um, Scott, I I'm curious. You've been working in this field for over 30 years. What brought you to this?

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Wow. Um, well, you know, I've I've always been a real curious person. Um I've even growing up, I would, you know, often wonder, you know, why people choose things, why they do what they do for a living, uh, why they respond in certain ways, why they act certain ways. Um, so the the the difference in the complexity of people was always something I was drawn to. Um and uh as I entered college and got an opportunity to learn more about that through the the psychology and the sociology program I was in, uh it just seemed to take hold um and become a firmer, more motivated interest as as those years went on.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

That's that's cool. So just just finding your way uh along your along your path, and you just kind of fell into this is working for me. I like it, want to keep pursuing it.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

For sure.

Practice Focus And Client Mix

SPEAKER_00 4:04

For sure. Nice. So so tell me about your practice. Um, you know, do you work exclusively with with trauma survivors, or is there um is is it a broad scope of patients you deal with?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Well, right now, um whether it's uh uh by by design, I don't know exactly what, but but the caseload composition over time does does fluctuate. And at present, I am doing a lot of trauma work um individually. Um I do a lot of couples work as well. Okay. Um some family work at present, not doing any groups or anything like that. Um, but uh addiction is part of what I I work with as well. Um and um and some grief work. Uh but I would say trauma and recovery uh are part of my my wheelhouse at this point.

Nonthreatening, Collaborative Approach

SPEAKER_00 5:10

And according to the information I have, you know, you talk about um a non-threatening approach, you know, when when people are trying to resolve a problem, sometimes you know it's by their own choices, sometimes it's you know mandated, you know, through one thing or another. And there's all different approaches. Why don't you tell me a little bit about you know how you how you go after this?

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Well, I think first and foremost, um everyone is their own unique package, so to speak. Um everyone comes to the table with things that you've seen before that are similar to what you've dealt with before, but they're not exactly the same as the next person. Um and it's really important to demonstrate a keen interest in who they are uh individually and their respective journey to the destination uh that they're at at present. And that's what I I really try to focus in on to make sure I understand that the best way possible, so that I can be um, you know, a good receptor site for the information that they provide, um, as well as a uh a guide, if you will, in their the the path that we collaboratively develop towards their healing. So the non-threatening piece is simply uh being interested, um, being open at all times for clarification, and um really seeking consent and buy-in to provide um any thoughts or hypotheses that I may have, and empowering the person that I'm working with to either use or not use those suggestions depending on you know what they are.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

So in my experience, I I've not dealt directly with a psychologist, but I know a number of practitioners and I know plenty of people who have you know gone to therapy like that. And my my vision of this is you sit down and on a couch or in a in a chair and you you start talking, asking questions, and you know, your side of it is more um, you know, and how do you feel about this? You know, getting the people to talk about their really getting them to do all the work of talking about it, and you're just uh unjust, I don't want to use that word to diminish it, but but your role is more to kind of crack the door open a little bit to let them help find their own way through it. Is that kind of accurate?

Genograms And Family Mapping

SPEAKER_01 8:04

It it is. I think when I first meet uh a client, I set the frame of letting them know, you know, that they're the teacher in this early going, and I'm I'm the student, and it's it's it's my motivation and my goal to learn about them as much as I can, which is why I'm big on um you know, doing a thorough social history, doing a thorough gram of not only their current family, but their family of origin, to really start to identify uh relationships, significant experiences, uh traumas, education levels, substance use, um to really get that picture because every picture is different. And more often than not, um individuals are happy to tell you that because they want to be heard, they want to be understood. And once I have that, um my ability to provide not only empathy and reflective listening, but but guidance as well is is improved greatly.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

So when you refer to the term geneogram, that's the first I've heard of that, but you're talking about really just kind of sharing the the nature of the relationships in the family and and just going like you were saying, describing kind of the the the an outline of of who these people are and what their influence or how affect them. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah, family, you know, a family tree, you know, things you things you see on like ancestry.com and you know those are um really, really interesting tools. I call them cheat sheets because you know I'll have those notes in front of me each each session, and it's a really good reference point um that I have at my fingertips to try to tie things together in a specific moment or to to to frame a question in the right way, um, to use the to use the correct names of people that have been you know shared with me. So I I I really enjoy doing geneograms and find them to be so helpful as a very visual person. I I find that to be um you know a great a great tool in my process.

Working With Youth And Candor

SPEAKER_00 10:47

I like that. I'm learning a lot about you know trauma and trauma survivors. I I was fortunate. I mean, I grew up in kind of a traditional family, you know, in the 70s. So I got my ass whooped a few times, but it didn't hurt me in the sense of I don't feel like I've got any major lasting trauma because of it. I somehow I dealt with it, but I know a lot of people don't. And recently, you know, we're talking about um trauma survivors from uh some inmates um in in Soledad prison, and and uh one in particular was talking about um trauma from young children received by people that are supposed to be their anchor and their guide and and the people that they trust. And um I I see in your in your bio that you deal with kids as young as 12. Um tell me a little bit about I'm I'm trying to sort of piece all these things together and uh what's your experience as far as like I see accountability as a big important element of our mental health? So I believe that you know I own my own life and whatever happened, I I trace it back down to some choice I made, and I don't generally attribute a problem to an outside source. However, there are definitely outside influences that you can't do anything about, especially when you're a child. What's your experience with younger um clients with regards to that?

The Power Of Deep Listening

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Yeah, they um they're really they're really great to work with because I I think the level of candor and the the level of honesty tends to be greater when younger because we're less filtered and less impeded by what we learn when we become adults. Um, I find it refreshing. Um I I think that I learn a lot from the people that I serve, and I learn a lot from young people. I learn a lot about their resiliency. Um and I think that depending on the context that they are in, they're more than more than happy to to talk about their journey and and how they see the world. Um, sometimes that's not the case, but typically if a young person ends up in therapy, there's a um a promotion of the idea that openness is good and candor is good. And if not, if that's not the case, then my job focuses on engagement and creating uh an atmosphere of comfort for them and trust so that they could get to that place where they can share what you know their parents think they need to work on or their teachers think they need to work on. So it's um it it's always it's always refreshing and and uh uh a gratifying opportunity to work with youngsters.

Pacing, Readiness, And Expectation

SPEAKER_00 15:07

I've I've always heard or I've heard, I guess, that one of the humans most um I don't know the great desires is to be heard. And we live in a world where everybody's busy doing their own thing and everybody's you know, busy yapping, and sometimes it's hard to find somebody who will listen. Do you find that you approaching your clients as a listener? Um, do you find that most of them really um appreciate that and just kind of like I know sometimes when you meet somebody new and they get chatty, you know, like they just needed somebody to listen to them and you just could not pretty much and they'll tell you their whole life story because you you took the time to to listen or at least appear to listen.

EMDR Explained And Set Up

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Yeah, yeah, it's it's true. I think um having a person who's who's willing to sit and to stay focused and to follow the journey that they want to take you on has such value. Um I've had many past sessions where I've maybe said a handful of words throughout the whole meeting, and at the end of the meeting, the client will will thank me profusely for doing such a good job. And you know, where I you know simply sat with them and was a partner in their journey, and um, and and I think that speaks to uh the importance of being available and being a resource, and and that is so so needed today, um, in so many ways. There are so many people who feel um disregarded, invalidated, um discredited, you name it. And I think uh having a voice is something that they crave greatly. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Now, when you're coming along and and having these conversations, and ultimately maybe a client or patient will, you know, reveal what they see as their problem, and maybe they feel stuck, or maybe they they don't know what to do. Um, I know there's lots of different tools. We've had a number of different therapists of various sorts on the show and talk about different types of tools from exercise to meditation to mindfulness to, you know, there's just so many different um approach a problem like that. Are there tools that you particularly find useful?

Processing Targets And Outcomes

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Yeah, I mean, all of the things that you just mentioned are very valuable, um, very, very valuable techniques or or tools to use. Um one of the things that I find very important is just uh patience and emphasizing that um we are uh functioning on their timeline, their level of comfort, and that there really isn't um an urgency to get to something that you're not comfortable getting to. Now, in some cases, maybe that's that's not the context, but if for example, if a teenager comes in and their parents definitely have an agenda for them to start talking about a certain issue that's on the table, um, you know, I'll make it clear that we'll talk about that when they feel ready to. And when they feel ready to, it's very likely that because of that readiness, we'll have meaningful discussion and productive outcome versus them looking at me as merely an extension of the um lectures that their parents are giving them. And I and I tell the parents this as well. Um, that you know, they'll march a kid into the session and say, okay, he needs to talk about this and this and this and this, and and you got an hour to fix him, and so it's it's always it's always about that always works out well, right? Right. It it's about expectation management. Um, I I find out what what people are interested in. And I have a a variety of interests myself, and if I can connect with somebody on an interest, a shared interest, that's a great way to develop engagement and rapport. And if someone is into something that I know nothing about, I'm more than happy to be educated about what it is and have them teach me. So giving them the floor and letting them guide the process is something that I think is also very, very helpful.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

I I see that um this is a term I'm not familiar with as well. I'm always trying to learn more, and I figure if I learn more, the listeners will too. Yeah. A reference to EMDR, eye movement desensitization reprocessing. Uh why don't you tell me a little bit about that?

Vigilance Versus Desensitization

Corrections Work And Accountability

Mosaic Metaphor For Self-View

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Yeah. Uh EMDR is a um a treatment modality that is utilized specifically to treat uh trauma and phobias, uh, and it's its basis is in bilateral brain stimulation. It's a newer modality of treatment, but a very highly researched one developed in 1987 by Dr. Francine Shapiro. And the premise in her early work was that a troublesome thought, a trauma, something you can't seem to integrate or resolve tends to be unraveled and reprocessed more easily when the eyes are moving back and forth, thus stimulating each side of the brain to facilitate um more communication between the two sides of the brain. Um now the technique has evolved over time. Um early in my career, you would use you would hold your fingers up and you hold move those back and forth and ask the the client to track your arm movements with their eyes. Um after getting very, very sore arms and elbows. I was glad to discover that light bars were were created. And that's simply uh a mechanism that you set down at eye level on a tripod, and it has dots that move back and forth uh in different colors and at varying speeds to help the person very systematically move their eyes back and forth, as well as using tactile hand vibrators or audio sounds bouncing from one side, one ear to the other. And the idea is first and foremost, informed consent. I really spend a lot of time with clients who come to me and have an interest in EMDR because they heard from a friend of a friend of a friend that it's really cool, it's really interesting, and that's great. And I'm glad for that, but it isn't the traditional psychotherapeutic paradigm. It's it's different. Um, the clinician does not do a lot of talking, but does basically more managing and if you will, staying out of the way. Um, so I spend a good amount of time giving reading material and videos and discussion, making sure clients know what it is. Um, and then after they sign on the line to say, yeah, I understand this, let's do it, I'm ready for it. We begin the process by uh picking what they refer to as a target, an issue that is a specific issue or a specific theme that is problematic, more than likely a trauma. And as that is processed uh through the eye movements, through the hand sensors, through the sounds in the ears, whichever they choose, um, what happens sort of organically through the process is it becomes less threatening. Um they see it in a way that they can conceptualize as more adaptive, and they are able to attach eventually a more um healthy response to the trauma versus being triggered or or experiencing regression when they think about it. Um, it doesn't eliminate the memory. The memory is always there. It doesn't eliminate triggers, triggers will happen. But what it does is it takes the immense charge, the immense ab reaction, if you will, out of the experience when it's brought up or when it's thought about, so that it's more integrated into your history of experiences uh and doesn't stick out like a sore thumb when you when you think about it, dream about it, or when someone brings it up. And um it's it's it's very interesting, it goes to the issues very quickly. Okay. Um talk therapy is is is awesome, and sometimes it's more conducive to the pace that someone's ready for. But a client who does EMDR could find themselves in the midst of this issue and the nitty-gritty of it, like almost instantly. Um, so I want them to be prepared for that and sometimes the speed of this process um because it it can do that. And when I think they're ready for that, they're more equipped to know that okay, I'm not doing anything wrong. This is part of what's supposed to happen, or I shouldn't say supposed to, um, but part of what can happen. And um, and they're less caught off guard by it. So it's very, very interesting. Um, and as I said, the therapist in the setup that I use has a little remote control, and I press a button to stop to stop eye sets and to restart them. And at the end of each set, I'll simply ask, you know, what comes up for you now. Um, and they'll give me sort of a condensed synopsis of what came up in there. And my goal and my objective is then to take what they tell me and say, okay, let's focus on this right now. And then we do another round, and and that keeps going. Um, and it could go for several sessions, and um, you know, the idea isn't to necessarily necessarily eliminate the stressors attached to a trauma, but maybe reduce them.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Okay.

How To Find Scott And Closing

SPEAKER_01 27:33

And in some cases, it may not be healthy to eliminate someone's stress responses to a trauma because you may want them to have some healthy vigilance about a certain issue. Sure. You don't want to take that and uh if you will, disarm them completely, but also maybe take what they refer to as a 10-level stressor down to maybe a three. And you work with that client to say, does this feel like realistic and adaptive? Because you'll learn that in the processing that it really doesn't feel to them like they can get it below that three, right? But it feels like that's the natural stopping point, and that's okay. That's okay. Um, because some things, you know, for example, if a person is walking down a dark street at uh in the evening and they get mugged and their wallet is stolen, if they come to me for EMDR on that, I don't want to desensitize them to dangerous places at night. You know, and and so I would want them to have that vigilance about them to be aware of their surroundings, to know where they're going, when they're going there, but to also have the trauma of experiencing a mugging as something that's more in their past and not impeding the path that they're taking moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

I like that. You've been practicing for over 30 years. I'm sure you have books you could write about, you know, the experiences you've had, but is there one patient that stands out to you right now as somebody that you've just really dramatically helped?

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Well, you know, I I I don't know that the that one jumps jumps off the map in particular. I I I used to do in my career, my career started in corrections. Um I worked as a counselor in our local jail uh over 30 years ago, and then that transitioned into doing forensic work for the courts, specifically evaluating and treating sex offenders. And in general, um I will say that helping someone who nobody else is really in a hurry to help um is is a nice opportunity to help the larger picture. Okay, and that has always felt good to me. I don't do that work anymore. I did it for 26 years and got my fill. Um but but largely statistically, at least in this county, a lot of those individuals don't get sentenced to incarceration, they are in the community, right? And to equip them with tools uh to cope and to find work and to deal with their own process and to become accountable for what they did and to honor the people that they hurt. If if I could achieve that in that work, that that was that was a good good feeling. Um so in general that that sticks out as well as helping someone who's been hurt find their voice.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Um that's always uh a wonderful thing to to observe and to be a part of, and and if that can happen, that's that's a good day.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

I like it. I I suspect that your profession is very rewarding in that sense when you when you even make a little progress. Anytime you help somebody, it's uh it's an amazing feeling. Well, Scott, we're running a little low on time. I'd like to see, do you have you have so much that that that you could share, but is there one thought that you would like to leave our listeners with as far as uh you know of all the things you've learned? Is there is there one thing that you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Sure, sure. Well, I I decided to name my practice Mosaic Pathway Counseling, and and the reason for that is that um I think all of us in a way are like a mosaic. I don't think we're defined by one specific piece, whether that piece is positive or whether that piece is negative. And maybe for the people that you've spoken of who happen to be incarcerated, uh their challenge is, even though maybe they have the view that the system is looking at them and defining them by a wrongful act or a poor choice, that a good challenge is to view yourself as as a collection of choices, positive, negative, and neutral, uh, versus maybe exclusively as one negative choice. Um, when you look at a mosaic, if you're standing an inch in front of it, you only see a few pieces, but it's only when you back up 10 to 15 feet away you see the whole thing and say, Oh wow, I know what this is now. So my thought would be for all people to do that with themselves and to have the realization that you know we're all a combination of a bunch of little pieces that make a picture.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

I like that. That's a that's a profound bit of wisdom. I I think that uh we're served well to consider that. Uh Scott, how you're you're in Illinois, right? I am, yes. And uh how how does somebody find you if somebody's interested in uh in uh reaching out for for you practitioner?

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Yeah, the best way would be to check out my website, which is www.mosaicpathway counseling, all one word.org. And my website is a good resource to learn a little bit about me, uh, to learn about my approach to things, to learn about a little bit about my creative side, to learn about uh my practice, uh some articles I've written, um, and just kind of get a flavor of how I go about this work. That would be the best place to access.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Fantastic. Well, this has been uh insightful conversation. And you know, I always like to leave the door open. There's always so much to talk about, and you know, in a half an hour, you only get so much to sometimes just throw an outline out there. But if you ever want to come back and dive deep into any of these things that we're talking about, I'd certainly like to welcome you.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Oh, always happy to do that, Joe. Thank you so much for having me today.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Beautiful. This has been another episode of the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbine. I want to thank all of our listeners that make the show possible, and we will see you next time.