Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
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Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
Closing The Door On Your Old Life with Earl Thompson
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One moment can split your life into “before” and “after” and you still have to wake up the next day and decide who you’re going to be. Earl Thompson joins me to share the deeply personal story of losing his wife to acute myeloid leukemia, the years of remission and relapse, and what it really takes to grieve without getting trapped in an identity built around tragedy.
From there, we dig into Earl’s work as a rehabilitation counselor and vocational rehabilitation expert witness. We talk about how disability and injury change a person’s ability to earn a living, what vocational rehab evaluations look at (cognitive, psychological, psychiatric, physical, and pain factors), and why job fit can make or break someone who’s dealing with trauma. Earl also breaks down the real-world landscape behind workers’ compensation, Social Security Disability, long-term disability, personal injury, and medical malpractice cases where the core question becomes: can this person work, and what will they lose if they can’t?
We also go straight at a tough mental health reality: when medication works, many people feel “fine” and stop taking it, especially with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, and the consequences can be devastating. Earl shares what he’s seen, why consistent support matters, and how people can end up self-medicating when symptoms return. We close with a hopeful challenge about starting over later in life, taking uncomfortable risks, and finding unexpected joy through new skills and new doors.
If this conversation helps you, subscribe to the Healthy Living Podcast, share it with someone who needs a reset, and leave a review so more people can find it. What’s one change you’ve been putting off that you’re ready to try?
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Well, hello and welcome to the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, and today we've got a very special guest. His name is Earl Thompson. And Earl's got an amazing story, but really the what's caught my eye and what I just learned was that he lost his wife to leukemia. And you know, it's a life-changing event. And Earl's been involved with uh rehab and therapy for many, many years. And without me tripping over my tongue any much more, Earl, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_01I'm doing great, Joe. Thanks for the invite.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's my pleasure. And uh, you know, I'm always looking to have a conversation with people that have experience around a health-related event or or topic. And uh wow, it sounds like you've got quite a quite a journey behind you and probably another one in front of you. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?
From Athlete Dream To Rehab Work
SPEAKER_01Sure. Well, I was married to this wonderful woman, and then we found out after her honeymoon that she had acute myeloid leukemia. She battled it for four and a half years and then in remission, and then I came back. And the last time it took her. So I was single for about, I don't know, four or five years. And then a friend of mine said, Hey, I know this person on this casting person on a reality TV show they're gonna be doing, and it's a dating show, and it's regarding women who want a man and don't necessarily need a man. And I said, No, thank you. But she she prodded me for about a week and I finally succumbed and threw up some picks and threw up a profile, and then after interviews with many different people with Bravo over the course of a month, I got selected to be on the show. And so my journey before that, I was I've been a rehab counselor, rehab specialist for 28 years, working with people with disabilities and injuries. So my background's in counseling and then testifying in as an expert witness in front of juries and in front of judges.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow. So yeah. That's uh that's quite a thing. I I ran a human rights nonprofit for almost 20 years, and I I was able to get qualified as an expert witness a few times, but that was one of the things we did is brought to defendants who couldn't really afford them some qualified testimony that helped their cases in many times.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's amazing. What kind of legal areas?
SPEAKER_00It was really about people that had been persecuted for the drug war cannabis cases primarily. Okay. In the world, you know, you got people that have been locked up over growing a plant, literally. And I know I was one of them. I I I got prosecuted, persecuted, and fought my way out of it, but a lot of people don't have the wherewithal or the the knowledge or or whatever it takes to do that. And I figured, well, let's let's help some of those who have a hard time with all that.
SPEAKER_01Good for you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, good for you. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00So, so with your rehab, how how did you get into that?
SPEAKER_01You know, I was a guy who thought I'd be a professional pitcher. I threw a fastball about 95 miles an hour and could throw a football 80 yards, and then my senior year I tore my shoulder. And I had an undergrad in psych, which you can't do much with. So I I went into a a master's level rehabilitation counseling program without knowing much about it. And it was was one of the best decisions I ever made. So I always talk to people about sometimes you got to shut the door of who you were before and open the door of who you're gonna become and find the joy, you know.
What Vocational Rehab Actually Does
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. It it's wild. I've had a number of guests that had a similar story where they were on the verge of you know being an athlete on on a large stage, and then also something happened. And you know, you spend your your life training and preparing yourself, and this is it. You're you got everything right, and then your body gives out, and it's just like whoa. Like you said, you gotta shut a door and and and and open this up. So tell me about your rehab experience. What's what what is that whole like it sounds to me like it's physical and mental rehab that you're working with?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there since I'm an expert in jobs, I assist people in like four areas, which is cognitive, neuropsychic, psychiatric, psychological, physical, and then pain. Those are the four areas, and try to determine what kind of work they can do, if any, based on their impairments. So I work with plaintiff and defense attorneys pretty equally, and and I testify in court, like I said, in front of juries and judges if need be.
SPEAKER_00Well, I I I would say that that's a noble and needed niche without too much alliteration. I think that that's it's really like you got people that are struggling maybe their whole life, maybe they got injured, maybe they just found out, whatever it is. And then, you know, a lot of people just trying to have a regular life, they're not looking to to to be to be that thing. Like, like people try to identify me as a cancer survivor. I'm like, no, I'm just a guy, and I happen to have a chapter that involved that, but that's not right who I am. I don't want to be defined by by an event or or a series of events. I I'm and a lot of people are that way. They they want to just go and live their life, but then you've got a challenge, whether it's mental, emotional, physical, whatever it is, and you try to get a job, and if the market's not swinging your way, there's it's a difficult task, or or even whatever it is. Maybe it's try to to rent uh an apartment or or buy a car or whatever it is. There's these obstacles that can get in your way because of a a disability of one sort or another.
Grief And Closing The Door
SPEAKER_01And it can happen at any moment in your life. That's the one thing, you know. You could be a neurosurgeon, and I've had a case like this where a piece of metal flew off into his eye. Uh-huh. And he he went from making over a million dollars a year to making a hundred and something a year because he couldn't operate anymore. And so, literally, I mean, I've had the experiences many times where things have changed the course of my life and my and or my friends' life. And I just try to let people know that you know, you think you got it all together, but literally in a millisecond it can change. Yes, and and you're gonna grieve your old life and it's gonna suck. And you know, you got to process that, but at some point you have to close that door, right? You know, or you'll never find the joy in your next chapter, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so that's that's a powerful tool. I'm working with a number of of prison inmates right now that we have a series in this show that's called Healthy Living Through Adversity, and they're sharing their stories about childhood trauma and the tools they're using to get through it. And uh, I'm learning a lot right now about all of these things. I'm one of these freaks who didn't have a horrible traumatic childhood. I mean, I grew up in the 70s, so I got my ass beat a few times, but it wasn't like to me, I didn't I didn't have one of these major traumas that so many kids have. And and so I'm learning so much about about you know trauma and its effect on the adult and and you know, and the tools that people are using to solve it. So this notion of closing the door is kind of a new one to me. I haven't, you know, it's it makes perfect sense. Yeah, we focus so much on what are you doing now, what are you gonna do, but to look at at acknowledging something and saying, okay, I'm not there anymore, I I that seems to be a really powerful tool.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and placing them in a position where they're gonna succeed, right? So if somebody has that trauma or triggers and they get out and they're they're bagging groceries or they're a cashier at a supermarket, that might not be the best fit for them because if there's any confrontation, they can explode and then lose their job. So it's really important to fit them in a scenario based on their trauma or where they're at in their trauma process to find them something that's going to really fit.
SPEAKER_00And I guess I it's happened over the course of many years, but your experience, I mean, it seems like you're covering a huge spectrum of people, huge spectrum of situations. You know, where I I know today it's kind of easy to find information, but good information isn't always easily found. Right. How do you know to advise people or to you know to guide people in the best way when there's so many different scenarios?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so you know, you working in the prison system, that's under the field of rehabilitation, right? So that's that's one area we can go into. We can go into so many different areas as rehab counselors, but I chose vocational because I found that really fascinating. Oh, and it really can impact someone's life in an amazing way. So if depending on what you have going on, you can go through the Department of Labor, they have people that can assist you. If you're in any type of litigation, then your attorney can actually hire someone like me to assist. If you don't have the resources for that, usually Department of Labor or the VA, if you're if you have any military experience, they have resources for that. But I try to go on podcasts, I do TikTok lives, you know, and try to answer questions, you know, because I I cover so many areas in my work, like medical malpractice, personal injury, workers' comp, divorce, long-term disability, social security. They're so they're so different and unique. And sometimes people, you know, they call up in a law firm they see on a bus and they, you know, they don't have a good result. Okay. And so even my friends, I'm like, why didn't you ask me? You know, I could have given you like 10 referrals, you know. So I mean, anyone that wants to reach out or has questions, you know, I'll I'll give you my TikTok and Instagram and and you can reach out to me and I'll help any way I can.
SPEAKER_00I love that. And so your your business are are you directly connected to the Department of Labor, or you're an independent contractor that's just down a list of people, or how do you how do you operate?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've been I used to do cases like welfare to work for moms that were struggling and stuff. But then I opened my own company and so I didn't have access to that anymore. Okay. I know how it works, and I know since I've been self-employed since 2003, you know, most of my cases are litigation cases or helping someone find work, you know, or do resumes, or how do you find a job? What's you know, so I I do a lot of different things like that, but I don't necessarily get cases from Department of Labor anymore or the BA.
Mental Health Cases And Medication Traps
SPEAKER_00Got it. So the the spectrum of people that you work with, you've kind of thrown out a bunch of things, but what would you think is, you know, the most extreme side to maybe the most extreme on an on another side? I mean, it's uh I know that we're dealing with so many different facets, but what how would you sort of profile the spectrum of people that you work with?
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, it's all over the place. I mean, people with head injuries, people burn victims, amputations, but then, you know, people with orthopedic problems, shoulders, knees, back, you know, and then you look, then I I evaluate people who have schizophrenia or bipolar. And, you know, those are the most challenging because it's amazing they when they get on medication, there's a high percentage that actually think I'm fine, and then they come off the medication. Yeah, and then bam. I mean, uh, parents can't find their kids, you know, husbands can't find their wives, vice versa, until they show up, you know, in a mental health ward or something, or the police, you know, because they just when they lose it, they lose it, you know, and they need the most support. And so that the and any trauma, you know, any prior trauma, you really gotta get that under control before you can really blossom as a person completely, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_00So you know, that's wild. I just recently interviewed a guy who was schizophrenic, and he had written a book about you know being misdiagnosed and all the you know chaos that his life took on. And you just brought up what I think is a really important point. I don't even know how you would think to resolve it, but when when somebody has a mental condition, whatever it is, that needs medication to treat, which many of them are, and like you said, when they're on the good, when they're on their meds, they feel great. And and then so many times, though, without somebody, I don't know, keeping an eye on them or or you know, or unless they're you know highly motivated, like this guy made a decision that he he wanted to stay in this good place. And so he he has all these tools and tricks that he has to make sure he stays on point, but most of them don't. And you know, I know like myself, the regimen I was on to overcome the cancer was brutal and grueling and very difficult. And as soon as I felt better, it would be real easy to quit that. And so the same thing, I'd imagine if you know you're struggling with voices or whatever the the problem is, and all of a sudden you're feeling good. I don't know, you just feel like living.
SPEAKER_01Yep, and and then and then if they while they're out there living off the medication, then they start self-medicating, yeah. All right, which might be booze, it might be pills, it might be you know marijuana. And you know, marijuana has so many wonderful uses, sure, but but for schizophrenia, yeah, not so much, right?
SPEAKER_00Perfect for everybody, that's for sure. Right, right.
SPEAKER_01So it's it the key is to explain going in what the pitfalls are, and most of these people are highly intelligent, okay. It just the chemicals in their brain start switching, and there's no rhyme or reason, they can't figure out why. Okay, so they that's why they're on so many different medication regimens till they get it right, or the person's the best they can be and live their the best life. But sometimes that can change every two or three months, and most people don't realize that. So when you see someone homeless on the street talking to themselves, that that person might have been a pilot, right? You know, that person might have been a CEO who just had a nervous breakdown, you know, or lost a child and just lost it, you know, you never know where they're coming from.
SPEAKER_00It's so true, it's so true. That gets into a whole nother conversation. But when you're dealing with the with these people and and you're dealing in court, what are most of the cases about? Are they are they, you know, a plaintiff against an employer? Or I mean how uh the court system, I'm I'm very familiar with the court system on one level, but this is very different. I don't understand or know, like what what types of cases are you dealing with?
SPEAKER_01So the majority of the cases are litigated. So Social Security is completely different because you're applying for benefits you might have earned, or there's SSI benefits, which are for like stay-at-home moms who never had a a work history, you know, it's kind of a welfare program. Okay. You can get cancer as a mom who's been a stay-at-home mom, you know, so that just helps out them if they're a single mom. But the others are all to determine can they work? And if they can't work, how much money will they lose over the course of their life? Or will they get benefits like on a workers' comp case? You know, or it might be getting them a service they need, like a lumbar fusion or a knee replacement. You know, people get their benefits cut off all the time in workers' comp, but that's such a unique area. The others are all about how much money will I lose over the course of my life based on this medical malpractice case, this truck hitting me while I was sitting in traffic, you know, or crossing a crosswalk, you know. So those those are the type of areas.
SPEAKER_00So there's a wide spectrum of types of cases that you deal with. It's not necessarily it could be again a plaintiff in an insurance company, it could be the a government agency, it could be any anything like that. It can, yeah. How how impactful do you feel that your testimony has been to a lot of these people?
SPEAKER_01It depends which side I'm on, right? So yeah, some people they lose their case because it wasn't a strong case, yeah. And so they they might not like me as much. And then on the plaintiff side, you know, if they win, they really like me. And the insurance company doesn't like me, right? So but I've I've built my business on being fair. So no matter what person hires me, my opinion is my opinion. And I'll tell an attorney, an insurance company, a plaintiff, you don't have a case here, okay? And then I'll give them recommendations like, you know, maybe settle or hear some things to point out in a mediation that might increase a settlement value or reduce the settlement value. You know, I call those mediation talking points. And so I'm able to I I get a lot of respect just because I don't go too far out on a limb, and everything I say makes sense, you know. And I'm not cocky, you know, there's a lot of experts that come in and they're$4,000 suits, and that's not me. I'm a guy from Chicago, you know. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00So what I know that we were talking earlier, and you've got some other things that you're working on, but with this, sounds like it's a pretty valuable niche that you carved. What what what are your plans with that? Like how do you is it something that you just stay busy with, or is it something that you train other people, or what's how do you how do you grow a business like that?
Mobility Goals And A Second Act
SPEAKER_01You know, I've been busy since I within the first six months of opening my company. So it's recession proof. If the economy's bad, people file for Social Security benefits. If the economy is strong, people are getting hurt or in accidents. So I I've never really had a downturn ever. So I don't I don't market, I don't have to. I've been doing this a long time. I think I've only lost like eight cases in 28 years. So I kind of know what I'm doing, and I can tell, you know, but like I said, both sides if they it's really a good case to mediate, you know. So so I'm not really, you know, I I love helping people, but I'm I stay busy all the time with that. And you know, the next thing you asked me was the future on that. I I I'm 60 years old, and I'd like to transition into something that makes me more mobile so I can travel more. So I'm looking at some point maybe sell my practice and stay on as a consultant to help the next generation, and then keeping the part-time social security stuff that I can do from anywhere. Like I've done hearings in like Italy and Germany at four in the morning, you know. So, you know, so I'd like to keep that. And then as I talked to you beforehand, you know, I've been taking acting and improv and voiceover classes, and I'm loving every minute of it. So that'll allow me to do other things too more remotely.
Courtroom Stories And Final Advice
SPEAKER_00Excellent, excellent. What do you think? I always like, you know, when when somebody's got to practice, you know, your type of a business, I always like to hear at least one anecdote of something that was an extreme case that you made a big impact on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so this one attorney was coming at me pretty hard. I was on the plaintiff side, he was on the defense side, he was getting in my face, and I looked at the judge and I asked them, can he step back or can I give him a breath mint? And uh he had two big cups of coffee, you know, he's like, and then he asked me a question and that he wished he never asked me. He said, No psychologist said this person can work or can't work. And I said, Well, actually, they could. And I I I thumbed very slowly through the records because I knew exactly where it was. Uh-huh. And then I said, Yeah, right here. The the doctor said that the person was disabled from all psychological, uh, from all work based on the psychological impairments. And man, you could see him just face got all red. I love it. And that's happened a few times where attorneys asked me a question. Like one of my favorite things in front of a jury is when a the opposing counsel asked me a question, and I go, that's a fantastic question. And then I look at the jury, come I'm about to shred them, you know. And and you could just see all the blood drain from their face, you know. So it's a little theatrical, but you really have to have the knowledge.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It is very theatrical in some cases. It is, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You have your Perry Mason moments. Right. I've had quite a few of those in my career, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I love it. I love it. Well, I you you covered a whole lot of ground here, and I'd like to see. Do you is there a thought that you would like to leave our audience with about your experiences?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I you know, I've done so many things in my life, but after my wife, I wasn't sure what I was gonna do. You know, I had my career, but you know, and then this thing from Bravo came up, the reality dating show, and I wound up winning it. You know, and since then, you know, I've I've had a publicist and I've got to do a lot of cool things in New York. I was at page six, went on the Wall of Fame at the New York Post, all went to Fashion Week. I mean, my life changed so completely. Well, I tell people all the time it's never too late. You know, if you've always wanted to take an acting class or you always wanted to take a pottery class or some class, take it. You never know if you're gonna be good at it. I mean, I'm really doing pretty well in voiceover and and acting. I have, I'm gonna be on an upcoming episode of the Tulsa King, you know, and I haven't really even tried yet, you know. So sometimes you just gotta kind of gamble on yourself and just go. It's gonna feel extremely uncomfortable. But once you you're there, everyone's uncomfortable. And you lean on each other, and the next thing you know, you're getting some good feedback. Maybe not at first, but that's okay, you know? So try something that you've never thought of doing, and it can really impact your life and bring you tremendous joy that you never saw, you never even knew you had the talent for.
SPEAKER_00So I love that. That that's that's a powerful thought, and it's certainly true. Is there anything that you'd like to leave our audience with as far as how to reach you or anything you want to promote?
SPEAKER_01Sure. Well, you can find me on Instagram at Earl the Pearl. That was my name on the show. It's been my name my whole life. Earl the Pearl35 or TikTok Earl the Pearl35 or Earl Thompson on Facebook. I don't have a website or anything. So that's probably the best way to reach me. And feel free if you just have a question or something, give me a little time. I'm pretty busy, but I I will answer you and I'll point you in the right direction.
SPEAKER_00Fantastic. Earl, well, it's been a pleasure talking with you. This is it's always an eye-opening experience, and I didn't really know what to expect with you. As a guest, I didn't get a lot of information about you, but you got a wealth of experience and you're doing some great work out there.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Joe. It was a pleasure meeting you too.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Well, thank you for joining us. And this has been another episode of the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, and I'd like to thank all of our listeners for making this show possible. And we will see you next time.
