Healing After Childhood Trauma: Healthy living through adversity pt 7

You can feel it when someone stops telling their story to get sympathy and starts telling it to get free. That’s where Juan is right now, and our conversation goes straight into the real mechanics of healing from childhood trauma.

We talk about Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE), what it means to carry a high ACE score, and why silence doesn’t erase pain it just hands it the steering wheel. Juan shares a vivid metaphor for trauma recovery: holding it in is like refusing to throw up after alcohol poisoning. It’s unpleasant to bring it up, but keeping the poison down can cost you your life, your relationships, and your ability to feel safe in your own body. We also dig into how toxic stress, chronic cortisol, hypervigilance, dissociation, and shame can show up in school, in anger, in addiction, and in the ways people learn to survive.

A powerful section focuses on prison rehabilitation and what happens when volunteers sit across from incarcerated men and choose to see their humanity. We explore labeling, dehumanization, and the difference between “What’s wrong with you?” and “What happened to you?” Juan then walks us through lyrics from his song about ACE, and he shares a verse inspired by a poem about intimate partner violence that makes the stakes brutally clear for adults and children living inside that cycle.

If something here sparks recognition, don’t let it fade into the background. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review so more people can find these conversations. What part of Juan’s story connected with you most?

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Transcript

Welcome And Series Purpose

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Well, hello and welcome to the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, and today we're gonna be diving into another episode of Healthy Living Through Adversity. I've got Juan with me, and we're gonna jump right on into it. Juan, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_05 0:30

I am doing great, Joe. Always a pleasure to be on your show, especially in this situation, and you know, spreading this information out and being a part of the solution. So there's just no greater experience for me at this time.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Well, you know, it's wild. We I believe this is our seventh episode we've done. And we covered a lot of ground. And I've learned a lot actually through this, and we've actually brought in I don't know, I think I've at least scheduled half a dozen new guests that came from listening to this series. And it's it's a it's a powerful conversation, you know. We're talking about trauma and dealing with it. And you know, we've jumped into some different topics that were all centered around adversity. But the thing about this and all of these, you know, the conversation about cancer, that's certainly a trauma. I can assure you that. And we've been really getting into, you know, your personal experience. You've been very candid and vulnerable and sharing, you know, some of your life experience. And last episode we talked about some of the poems that you put out that you put into into song form, and and you were really getting into going through the lyrics, going through the verses and what they mean, and and what's what's your thoughts on on how we've been doing so far?

SPEAKER_05 2:08

I am completely satisfied.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

This call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded.

SPEAKER_05 2:15

You know, from from you know, the this is a subject that's very, you know, it hits home with me because, you know, one, I I've been on both ends of the spectrum now. You know, I I was that traumatized child and now I'm on the healing end of it. And so I know about all of the confusion, the depression, the anxiety, the isolation, you know, not feeling safe around people, and you know, just wanting to hide and be invisible, you know, not trusting, not knowing how to have healthy relationships with people, being disconnected from everyone around me, and just like not even being a connection with my own body. And so it's like I was almost like it's just floating, you know, and so you know, understanding all of that, when I started my healing journey, you know, it was really, you know, just for myself because, you know, at nighttime, we are the ones that have to sleep in our we we I have to sleep with my own head, right? And I have to go to sleep with this head, this brain of mine. And if it's full of depression, anxiety, and confusion and all these different things, it was just making my life so much different. You know, it was it was just so difficult. And so now that I've I I began that healing journey and began to to heal and find that peace, it it created this obligation. Like I have to tell someone, like I have to tell people about like there is healing out there. You do you're not stuck like that, you know. You're it's like it all makes sense if you connect the dots, if you can be courageous enough to go back and look at some of those wounded places and just be for yourself now, give yourself that tender loving care now that you should have had then. If you can get all that, you begin to find that closure and that peace and that healing. And so there's an obligation for me, and and so it's an honor just to know that, you know, like we say, even if one person, you know, wants to find something worth that made their life better, this would all be worth it. So I'm definitely satisfied with it, and just we're gonna keep swinging away and you know, hopefully we'll reach more people.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Well, last week we or last episode I should say, we were talking about secrets and the the propensity for people that have a trauma like you're talking about, you know, that's high a high ACE score, uh the more likely they are to not share it, you know. For for very odd reasons. And it sounds to me like now you kind of swung that around 180 degrees, and you know, instead of uh you know, living this world of secrets and lies and and and not being accountable, you're you're doing exactly the opposite. And you're you're not only sharing you know your secrets, but you're explaining how important it is and how valuable it is for others to do the same.

SPEAKER_05 5:25

Yeah, you know, and in in uh in one of our workbooks, we it was talking about how many of us we don't want to talk about, you know, say, oh, my past is too painful to talk about and to go into. And it it was shedding light on the fact that, hey, whether you talk about your past or not, it's still controlling your life. Right? It is it is playing such a major role in every decision that you're making right now. So for me, once I came to that realization, like, hey, not talking about this is not gonna solve the problem. And actually, it it creates the problem, you know, and makes the problem even worse. And so just understanding that part, I like using an example of like, imagine I look at trauma like alcohol poisoning. You know, and you know, if you once you once you consume enough too much alcohol to the point to where it's now it's it's poisoning you, imagine someone who refused to throw up right because of the shame or whatever, right? They just like I'm not gonna throw up. Well, it's like, well, if you don't throw up, you're gonna keep that poison inside your body and it's gonna kill you.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Exactly. Your body trying to protect itself and get that poison out of it.

SPEAKER_05 6:48

Exactly. Now, as unpleasant as vomiting may be, it is still a uh it's an attempt by your body to save you. And so because you have done something foolish, right? You consume this this this poison to the level that it was toxic. And so that's how I look at trauma. And and and me and my previous I I say my previous life, or with my old brain per se, I was that person refusing to throw up. I was that person refusing, like I you know, just keeping it down, keeping that all that poison inside of me and not talking about it. And so it makes just as much sense to not talk about your trauma. Which, as we know, that doesn't make sense at all. Right? So if you just look at that, that's why now it's kind of like I know I went on to I had once went to a a rap show, uh they were doing this audition, and I submitted one of my songs, and I was talking about some of my traumas, and some of the hip hop rappers that were there, they were like, Why would he talk about that? Why would he say that? You know? And it's like it almost it it's like it almost traumatized them by hearing it. Right. But you know, it was really but it just shows like I understand where they were at too, because I understand that most likely chances are a lot of horrific things happened to them that they have not came to the place where they wanted to talk about.

Being Seen In Prison Programs

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Well, you know, not that long ago, I did another second interview with Megan McDrew. And as you know, she's brought a program into the prison, and it involves a lot of people, yeah, a lot of volunteers and a lot of discussion about traumatic things. And the impact of this with you know part of the whole healing element is to uh find a way to understand or uh or uh uh be a part of a healthy relationship. And volunteers come in and sit down and you know, they have this sort of ritual that they do about how the program starts and and and uh and uh does the program and then completes it. Because you know, some real real relationships happen and it's it's a powerful experience to watch how people start to open up and and to let their guard down a little bit when when that sort of thing happens.

SPEAKER_05 9:45

Yeah. So as you oh I I don't know if I shared with you, I believe I did, but I just so I just finished one of her cycles here, you know. Um it's just uh the the 23rd with her our last class. I just sat in there. And let me just say, man, it's like again, so I'm the I'm the recipient of everything that she's talking about. I'm one of the recipients. And as someone in here Okay, so the most powerful thing about her program, what I love, is understanding first you gotta understand that every one of us have been judged as bad people. Right? And so with that judgment of being bad people comes the dehumanization and not being treated like you're human and being treated less than human. And that becomes our norm as we go through this legal system. Okay, and so for a program like that where we go and sit down with people who see our humanity, they're not concerned with why you're this call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded. They're not concerned with how bad you were, they're not concerned with any of that. They're just concerned about the human being and seeing the human being that's in front of them and understanding how we have been hurt to the point to where we can hurt someone else. And for most of us, no one has ever taken this time to hear our story. They have just all of a sudden looked at it and heard some things about what the legal system said we did, or he committed this crime, and all of a sudden formulated these opinions about who we are, but never has that actual connection to say, hey, like like Dr. Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey say in their book, what what happened to you? No one bothered to even understand and have that much empathy and compassion to say, No, what happened? You know, you're not you weren't born like this. None of us was born just violent. Right, you know, and we didn't choose where we were born to and things like that. So to me, when you look to look into the eyes of her volunteers, and I've had the opportunity to sit down with several of them, and right before we graduated, a couple of them came to me and said, Juan, I was really touched by what you shared. And it just it I can't even explain it. And to me, that was just I felt the healing in it. I just feel I felt the healing.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Well, remember, I don't know if it was last episode or the episode before I told you about the guest who was a counselor up in Indiana, and he had that mosaic program where you know his whole concept of it was that we're not we don't appropriate ourselves just because of a single uh uh episode or incident or trauma that's happened to us. Like, you know, I'm a quote unquote cancer survivor, but I don't identify myself as that. I don't put that as a I I'm a human being that happened to go through a an experience that you know was part of it, but that's that's in no way who I am. And unfortunately, uh, you know, if you get stuck in the legal system and you get convicted of a crime, that becomes your label. You know, you're a whatever, you know, that thing that you got convicted of. And and many people, I think, attach themselves to that as you know, who they are at this point. And I know a lot of people do that and and treat people differently, like you said, dehumanize. I know the the period of time I was locked up, it was all about you know, dehumanizing the whole, the whole, you know, I was just a county jail system, but that was all about, you know, you're not a human, you're you're you're you're a prisoner, you're an innate. Um it it it didn't matter what you were, you know, the the the whole the whole system in there was set to make everybody disclaimer and that was less than everybody else. And I I can't imagine what you know it's like in other places, but uh I think to have a a program where they focus on the humanity and they focus on uh you know the uh uh the malleability of of the human spirit and that you know we we have the ability to better ourselves to to change to you know maybe we had a bad moment, maybe we did a thing, or maybe we had a thing done to us, but that doesn't identify us as a human being. I think I just dropped off for a second, but he'll be coming back on and perfect, perfect. So yeah, I was just talking about how the a lot of times we identify ourselves or get identified because of an event or you know, a a series of events, something that we did, or something we overcame, or something we didn't overcome, and we end up getting attached or attaching ourselves to that. You know, sometimes a a person who did something good even, you know, I was a football player in high school, and they don't they don't ever get past that. Like, you know, they don't go on with their life, they did this one thing and that's who they are now. Or they went through a bad thing, you know. I got uh in a crash, I'm I I I got paralyzed or I got a disease or whatever it is, and you know, they say, oh, I'm I'm this person. And it's like, what? You're you're a human that's lived this whole life and you're you're attaching yourself to this one thing, like who who does, yeah. But everybody does that, it seems.

SPEAKER_05 15:41

Yeah. I mean, it's like we don't know how magnificent we are as human beings. Exactly, you know, and so we like reduce ourselves to like this very limited like understanding of like who we are through what we do. And so that's where like, you know, for me, come into the realization of like, you know, looking at all my experiences like a book. And it all makes sense to me, you know, when you look at some I mean it almost every man that I sit in group with kind of has the same story. You know, and we're talking about like eight or nine aces, and it's easy for someone who hasn't walked in the shoes of experiencing those eight or nine aces to say what we should or should not have done and what is or is not appropriate. But until you actually experience like the loss of sense of self, the loss of trust, the loss of safety, the loss of connection to your own body, the loss of how do you find yourself out of that hole when there is no manual? You know, and it's kind of like it's it's it's it's one of those things where we just lost empathy for other people and and and the ability to even sympathize with what they've been through to the point where we just you know project our own experiences onto them, imagining that, oh well, I would have somehow did something different if I would experience the exact same stuff as you and actuality may have done something way worse. And so that's where to me, you know, it's not about and then you know, just to be clear, you know, this is about healing from our trauma. It's not about, you know, having a pity party or you know, trying to get people to feel sorry for us or anything like that, it's not about that. But at the same time, it's like you have to understand what you've been through in order to know, it's like that awareness. You have to become aware of it in order to know uh or or to heal it. Because how can you heal what you're not aware of? You know, and so for people like that that you know judge people or label people because of these things, it's just like they haven't come to an understanding of like just how every one of us is different. I can experience the trauma and someone else experienced the trauma. Yeah, they may do something different, they may do something better, they may do something worse. But we're all different. And so when it comes to trauma, we don't need to hold the person responsible for the trauma they had they experienced and and not being able to manage it well enough because remember, we were kids when this happened to us and how that stuff affected our brains and things like that. Like we were children when these things happened. So it's kind of like insensitive for someone to even be on a judgmental level of saying, well, why did this person you know do XYZ? It's like we were children. Right, right? We were children who who who who yeah, who experienced the worst stuff that can uh a human being can experience, and you wonder why we make terrible dis decisions in our teens and our as young adults?

SPEAKER_02 19:12

I don't even know how that's surprising. And you know, the thing that nobody ever seems to get identified with is the characteristic of I picked myself back up off the floor and kept walking. I realized that I failed and I got up and started again.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Uh call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded.

The ACE Song Origin Story

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Uh I made a decision to do the right thing. Like we don't ever get identified with that. Uh and that's the truth about the human experience is that's the one thing that uh uh uh uh we have as a gift uh is that every day uh we choose who we're gonna be. Uh and we're not stuck beyond where yesterday. And but I don't ever hear anybody identifying with that, you know. I I think that that's the thing. Well, I definitely want to talk about another one of your poems, and you know, that's actually been published as a as a song. And I know you were gonna get into the lyrics of of of that, and why don't why don't we uh jump into that a little bit?

SPEAKER_05 20:25

Absolutely. So this one is called Adverse Childhood Experiences, and this is like this is the heart of like my song. This is my heart. I mean, all my songs are like my children. I don't love one more than the other, but this one it definitely represents like when I when I first became aware of ACE. And so I was in the substance abuse program, and this guy had given me this packet about adverse childhood experiences. Now, prior to this, I was actually my therapist. I was like, hey, how can I know how my you know childhood experiences had affected me? How can I know if I heal? You know, um, and where or or where am I at in that process? You know, am I in the middle of my healing? Am I at the end? How can I measure this? And so my therapist here in the prison, they had no, they they were not able to be able to do that. You weren't ready for that question. I mean Yeah, you know, and it was so sad because you're thinking about, I mean, think about that. The therapist in the prison was not equipped to answer that question. And here I am in the prison system who's supposed to their own a part of their title is California Departments of Rehabilitation.

unknown 21:43

Right.

SPEAKER_05 21:43

The corrections and rehabilitation, right? And so I'm like, well, if a therapist can't answer that question, then where am I supposed to get this question answered? Right. Who the hell can't, man? Right? Who's Yeah. And so thank God for Fritzie Horsman. And so I took the she came into the prison maybe about I think it was October of two thousand twenty two. I went to her seminar and she started talking about these these aces here. Which I had already seen the survey, I had taken the survey. And I remember when I was taking a survey, I was like, this is one test that I did not want to score a hundred percent on.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

Right.

SPEAKER_05 22:21

And it was rew it was rewarding, to be honest with you, because I finally got the answers to the questions that I was looking for. But it then again, at the same time, it was painful because for the first time in my life, I was able to see all of what I went through.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Right.

Lyrics On Toxic Stress Effects

SPEAKER_05 22:40

And that was the first time and I remember like my eyes getting tear like tearing up. But it was that bittersweet. You know, I it was a little relief, but it was painful too at the same time. And so and I do what I normally do, I wrote this song to help get out some of that pain. And so this song was a result of that. And so I'll share first, of course. I wish I knew then about ACE, because eight out of ten of them apply to me. No fool, divorce, mom got beat, prisons put downs, I got beat, unloved and unwanted, fond of lean. Please tell someone about ACE. Hurt people, hurt people, obviously. We become a product of what we see. And the critical thing about this was is notice I say eight out of ten. So when I initially wrote this, I thought I had eight. And it turns out later on, as I became Yeah, it turns out I had nine. It went up one.

unknown 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

This call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded.

SPEAKER_05 23:56

Okay. So that's the chorus, the verse. I witnessed pops beat moms with a close cis. Even though I was young, I would never forget. I became a product of ACE generational trauma, plagued with ADD. The fuel in my gas tank was power and control. From an early stage, I was set to explode. People became objects so I could harm them unaware of the psychological scars I caused them. Locked in my own head, barely surviving. I fell to second grade, accused of not trying, trying harder, Juan. Don't let your mind drift. Concentrating so hard, I made my eyes squint, mind shift, bell rung before I could catch it. Grade so bad I didn't deserve presents. D's and F's from elementary to high school. High school dropout to live by no rules. And so go back to the beginning of that. So in the beginning of this first verse, I wouldn't have possibly moms with a close fist, even though I was young, I would never forget. I became a product of ACE, generational trauma, plagued with ADB. So this was the toxic stress. Now this is just one example of the nine aces. And so this was toxic stress. The the the bear, as we talked about in the previous episodes, and like our first episode, the bear that comes home every night and releases and and and so my body is releasing this cortisol constantly. Okay. Now the fuel in my gas tank was power and control. From an early stage, I was set to explode. So what sets the stage to explosion is being alone with the hurt. And again, these are from our previous episodes. Being alone with the hurt. So as a child, not having someone there after I experienced this traumatic event, not having someone there to help me process it. So I was there alone with the hurt. Absorbing the energy of my abusers. Right? So we talked about that in previous episodes, how you absorb the energy of your abusers. Abandoning my authentic self of the fractured self that comes forward, the pushing down of emotions, becoming what others want us to be for the sake of attachment. And so this this pushing down, right? This is this this is the this is that explosive cocktail. Okay, all these things that we're talking about. And all this causes depression, anxiety, confusion, numbness, lack of emotional intelligence, and the inability to describe how I feel. And that's what creates the bomb.

SPEAKER_04 27:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 27:06

People became objects so I could harm them, unaware of the psychological scars I caused them. And as we mentioned in again in one of our first episodes, trauma creates a disconnect within the body, the mind, thoughts, emotions, and other people. And and what we the goal is to try to reconnect to ourselves. And until we do that, there is no safe place. Like no matter where we're at, it just doesn't feel like a safe place. So locked locked in my own head, barely surviving, I fell the second grade. Accused of not trying, try harder one. Don't let your mind drift. Concentrating so hard, I made my eyes squint, mind shift, bell rung before I could catch it. Brayed so bad I didn't deserve presence. And these are the symptoms of trauma. So my hypervigilance dissociation. So the constriction in the body, constriction in the body was the narrowing of the perception, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:18

You have sixty seconds remaining.

SPEAKER_05 28:21

Like our bodies make us focus on the threat and only the threat, so it's make it hard to learn at school. Right? Feelings of helplessness, immobility, hypervisorance of the name, shame, mental blankness, and spaced-out feeling, addictive behavior, inability to love, nurture, or bond with other individuals, diminished emotional responses. I had asthma, depression, feelings of impending doom, feelings of detachment, alienation, and isolation, reduced ability to formulate plans. And that's how all of this affected me.

Domestic Violence And The Real Cost

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Wow. That's that's some powerful stuff. I uh it's hard to comprehend, you know. You you put down a a lifetime full of entries into a few lines, and it's hard. It's a lot, it's a lot to take on. And yet at the same time, you know, if you just listen to it and you think about it, you probably are likely to identify with some of the least some of the elements of it, you know, we've a lot of times of this puzzle uh our topics that are part of our own puzzles. Um you know, uh I I think uh can cause people to uh take a account of of maybe something that they haven't dealt with uh, you know, I'm I'm sure that's at least part of the intent of of publishing this to put it out there so people can hear it. You know, obviously you're expressing yourself and you're sharing your story, but at the same time uh uh my guess is that at least at least one, probably many people that have heard this have uh taken a minute and gone, wow. You know, I I identify with that whatever piece or pieces it is. Oh you still I thought you dropped off. Sorry. Apologize. We'll we'll we'll clip this little part and we'll we'll we'll theme it back together. So where where are we at now with uh with uh with the lyrics? Okay, so that was the first verse.

SPEAKER_05 31:47

So now I wrote the second verse and the second verse is it's from a poem, and forgive me, I don't I don't know the author's name. I heard it in group and it it's called He Brought Me Flowers Today and so this poem reminded me of the domestic violence that my that my father had put on my mother. And so this this poem again, when I when I am motivated, it just I didn't choose to write this. When I'm inspired to write, it just it just flowed out. And so this poem, I heard this poem at the same time that I came across the aces, and it so this is just how I write and how I express myself and this is my healing. So the second verse says, Shadow bottles which contain suppressed emotions, build up an explosion, the cycle of violence. The honeymoon is when abusers bring home flowers. There'll be peace for a couple of hours. Never mind the bruises, cracked ribs, black eyes. This time he promised he would never do it again. What about the kids? You must say for them, huh? What if you get murdered in front of them? Then what? I know you don't think that that can happen. Neither did the dead wife lying in the casket. When is enough enough? One time is too much. It escalates from there, it gets worse. From verbal abuse to torn shirts, then comes the choking in the hips, leaving marks with an open palm or closed fist. The problem is he doesn't see a woman, he sees an object that is his. If you say you're condoning his behavior, I know you're aflair afraid to leave, and it's easy to say, but please don't think. Just leave.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

I imagine that applies to so many people. I think that that's a piece like some of the the elements are uh the first verse weren't super specific about, you know, the thing that you went through, but more the effects of it. That's really getting specific. And and uh it's a thing that I think a lot of kids have gone through, you know, uh dealing with somehow. And I uh it it it's a it's a rough one, you know, because it's uh it's something that a lot of times kids might blame themselves for behavior of you know their parents, their loved ones, the the ones they're supposed to look up to and respect. Or, you know, who knows? There's all different ways it could go.

SPEAKER_05 34:36

Yeah. I mean, that's one of the most important things that you know for and I and I hope the if there is a lady or men can be experienced intimate partner violence as well. Either party, whoever is being abused, I hope they I hope they understand. I hope they understand that you know the children are witnessing this. And as much as as much as a parent may think that they're as much as a parent may think like they're trying to protect the child, you know, by staying in this relationship, or you know, they have to understand that the child is equally being victimized, and more so because of the adverse childhood experience and how that's gonna affect the child and wire the child's brain in the future.

SPEAKER_04 35:31

Right.

SPEAKER_05 35:33

And so that was kind of the most important piece is is for women or men, whoever's being abused, this don't minimize this, don't think that it's gonna get better, don't minimize it. You know, it's a very serious issue, it escalates, as the poem says, and in the the the in the in the actual poem, the lady said her husband brought her flowers today, and it was after he had beat her.

SPEAKER_04 36:01

Right.

SPEAKER_05 36:03

And then it got to the point to where the last time he actually brought her flowers, it was to her funeral.

SPEAKER_04 36:10

Right.

SPEAKER_05 36:12

Yeah, and so that's the that's the importance of this, is just to advocate for anyone who is in a di an abusive relationship not to stay in that relationship, not to expect it to get any better, and do the right thing, which is to leave.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

100%, I I it breaks my heart every time I I hear about a couple that's you know got some kind of a violent history and they stand together for the kids. It's like what does that even mean?

SPEAKER_05 36:51

Right. Yeah, yeah, that's that conflict, right? It's those opposing views. And I mean, I would imagine if if any father, you know, who has a daughter that's in an abusive relationship would not want his daughter to stay in that abusive relationship for the sake of children. You know, and in fact, if you're gonna think about the welfare of the children, it would say you have to leave. It would have it would say that you have to protect the children by getting them out of this abusive environment, not keeping them inside of it.

SPEAKER_04 37:33

Right.

SPEAKER_05 37:35

You know, and especially when you think about how the child brain learns, you know, and and certain things that because you know, again, absorbing absorbing the the the power of our abusers, you know, and as they see that, depending on the age of the child, they may learn that that is the way that men are supposed to treat women. Yep. Or that is the way that women are, you know, whoever is the abuser. Right, you know, they learn that that's the way that yeah, that's the way that you know a relationship's supposed to work.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

It's all they know.

SPEAKER_05 38:18

And that's not yeah, and that's not no, that's not how you know, and I I came up and I I remember dealing with women who if you if if if if they expect it because I didn't hit them, I didn't love them.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Oh, jeez, wow.

SPEAKER_05 38:35

You know, and that's yeah, yeah, that's that's that was a real thing. Wow. And it's like like wow. I mean, can you imagine that?

SPEAKER_00 38:46

This call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded.

SPEAKER_05 38:51

Yeah, you would imagine that type of psychology, and it it's very real.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Yeah, wow.

Getting Help Before It Is Too Late

SPEAKER_05 38:58

Yeah. So the the whole purpose of this song is I hope that the Ace song becomes a game changer. For me, like I said, I wish I knew then about ACE. To me, it it it became it became like this cry because I was like, how much different my life would have been had I actually had this information then. Oh you know absolutely and too often most of our stories is we don't get this type of resources until we come to prison. And the whole push is to get this information out there into society to people like us before they come to prison. To interrupt this cycle of having to come to prison to get this information and these resources. You know, and it's like, well, if we can send this back out there, and that's part of what we're doing and what you're helping me do, is getting these resources back out there, you know, and to people who can actually use them, you know, before it's too late.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

You know, there's gonna come a day where somebody's gonna come to me or you or somebody who knows us and say, you know, I want to share with you that I I made a change in my life that likely kept me from going down that road and and somehow equating it to this song or or one of the other poems that you put out. Imagine how how that's gonna make you feel.

SPEAKER_05 40:45

You know, I I tell you at times I I struggle with my ver vulnerability and I shedding tears and crying. If I ever hear somebody say that, I guarantee you I am going to cry.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

I tell you.

SPEAKER_05 40:56

I am gonna cry and be so relieved that, like, yes, I got ahead of it. I got ahead, you know.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Made a difference, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:05

For the most, yeah, to know you made a difference in someone's life. And you know, to me, there's no greater reward. I mean, I sit in a group throughout my throughout my week. On Sunday, I have about 40 something participants. On Thursday, I have about 25 participants. So throughout my week, I'm at about 60, 60, 70 participants, right? I sit in groups of about 70 people.

SPEAKER_04 41:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 41:35

And those are 70 people that I get to go through this whole cycle with. And I'm just looking for him. We're on our third, we're on our third, third cohort right now. And I just look at like just one, two, three of these guys, you know, if it's making a difference, yeah. Like we're gonna get to somebody. Well, change somebody's life.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

The odds are if you keep at it, putting this message out, you're getting, you know, better and better in practicing your messaging. You know, that's what you're doing right now. I mean, uh everybody who who keeps trying to help they keep talking and they keep talking and they get better at sharing their thoughts. What you're doing, what we're doing, uh it's it's powerful. And I believe, you know, we're having this one conversation one time, but it echoes out there for you know for virtually eternity. It'll it'll be out there for people to find and hear and hopefully listen to.

SPEAKER_05 43:26

Yeah. You know, as I hear you talk, it reminds me of the law of nature. And the law of nature, and especially, you know, in the Bible it says that all labor produces profit. And just like you plant a seed in the ground, it's gonna bear fruit. And what I thought about is is like just like my actions one day, my actions they harm people.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 43:51

And I would think that my those like my actions today, they heal people.

SPEAKER_04 43:58

Right.

SPEAKER_05 43:59

And it's all about the effort and the direction, right? So I won't I won't be I won't be naive to think, oh, I'm good enough to harm someone, but I'm not good enough to heal someone.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

Right.

SPEAKER_05 44:14

I don't want to think that of myself, right? Um the opposite is true. It's like, well, if I'm powerful enough to actually harm someone, then I have to be just as powerful to help someone heal.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 44:29

And so that's kind of like where I'm at today. It's like, well, it's it's just the influence that we have on people, and all of us have that effect on people. It's how do we choose to spend our efforts? Do we spend our efforts in harming someone, or do we spend our efforts in helping someone?

SPEAKER_01 44:49

And so now this is You have 60 seconds remaining.

SPEAKER_05 44:53

This is the direction that we're moving in. This is what should define someone. And I think if someone Ever wants to label someone, then you label them according to what they are doing today.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

You know, couldn't agree more. I think today is a person. I think that's a message. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

I mean, I think that I think that you know this call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

Getting people to to realize that today is the day that defines you. And and if you can realize that, then you can decide, oh, well, this is what I'm gonna do today, then, and I'm gonna define myself today.

SPEAKER_05 45:38

Yes, exactly. And I would encourage all your listeners, if if someone is if someone is being helped by this, please contact Joe and let him know that what he's doing.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

I think he just dropped off. We'll clip this up and we'll we'll go back to that thought to wrap it wrap it up. But yeah, this is this is amazing. I I can almost feel that it's gonna happen sooner than we think. Somebody's gonna hear this and somebody's gonna go, wow, you know what? I'm going a new direction. I'm I'm I I heard this thing and I heard them talk about it, and I I I realized something about myself, and I'm gonna I'm gonna go work on it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

If it I imagine Yeah, that's the whole point, right?

SPEAKER_02 46:33

Yeah, yeah. I mean I can I can picture that happening like sooner than later. And somebody reached out, sending me a message, or maybe they come on as a guest and say, you know, I was listening to this one show, and it got me thinking, and next thing you know, I I I decided to all right, let's let's let's rewind that. We'll we'll we'll clip this together, but let's let's go back to that central thought. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 47:00

What which thought was that?

SPEAKER_02 47:01

Well what you were just talking about, yeah, it's it's today you have a you have a choice to define yourself.

SPEAKER_05 47:11

Yeah, so I was saying before hung up, like if if someone is listening to this and you're and they're being helped by this podcast, like please reach out to Joe and let Joe know that what this podcast is helping you, and you'll be helping us. Like just give you giving back to us and just knowing that we are helping you in that, in that sense, in that regard. And to that extent, you know, I think not only Megan McDrew, she she's helped me, Fricky Horseman, and there's a lot of other people that are have come to my rescue, and hopefully I can be that for someone out there.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

100%. Well, Juan, this has been uh another riveting conversation. Once again, we're gonna go way too long, but it's okay. Um it it's it's good. You know, we're we're we're getting so deep into this stuff that it's worth it, you know. Usually I clip these things down to less than 30 minutes, but we we keep rolling almost double that, but it's okay. I think I think we're we're getting into things that are so important, they need to be discussed, and the conversation needs to come to a completion. Well, this is really a powerful song, a powerful message. And like like we said, you know, if somebody feels that they've been touched by this and and listened to these lyrics and and got them thinking, you know, please reach out, let us let me know, and you know, maybe come on as a guest and tell us about your experience. Well, Juan, I I I'm so grateful that that we're doing this. We had another great one, and I'm looking forward to jumping into the next one.

SPEAKER_05 48:53

Yes, thank you very much, Joe. And like I said, just so your listeners know, we're getting ready to launch our our record label this year, and you'll be kind enough to partner up with us and to help us out with those endeavors. So I just want to let your listeners know, be on the lookout for some more of our music.

SPEAKER_02 49:12

Beautiful. I'm looking forward to telling everybody about it. Well, this has been another episode of the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbon. I want to thank all of our listeners for making the show possible and this series, Healthy Living Through Adversity. And we will see you next time. See ya.