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What If Cancer’s Weak Spot Is Nutrition with Dr Robert Hoffman
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Welcome And Why This Matters
SPEAKER_01Well, hello, and welcome to the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, and today we have back in our studio a very special guest, Dr. Robert Hoffman. Robert, welcome back to the show. Thank you, Joe. Always a pleasure and honor to be here. You know, and for any new listeners, Dr. Robert Hoffman and I have been working together for a year and a half or so now. Around. And you know, Robert was instrumental in helping me find the some of the key components to being able to solve my cancer problem, which was a pretty serious problem at the time. And we have a Zoom call every Sunday evening at 4 p.m. Pacific time. And there's a link to the Zoom call on every podcast episode, so it's easy to find. And everybody's welcome. And you know, my friend Ray was listening in yesterday, and his father has cancer, but he doesn't want to do anything to help himself. He's already at stage four, gone everything. Now they're, I think they're putting him on that one medication that you were talking about that you said really doesn't have the end result that everybody's talking about. But end result is Ray got to hear the conversation. And it was a short call last time, and there was only what 12 people on it or something. Sometimes there's 30, 35 people on. But the truth is, this little call that we do every Sunday from 4 to 6 p.m. Pacific time is some of the most important science being discussed by real people solving these real problems. These are actual cancer patients that are actually solving their own problem their own way. And we all have this one thing in common. And the one thing we have in common is the understanding and recognition and practice of a low methionine diet. And most of us
Cancer’s Methionine Addiction Explained
SPEAKER_01are incorporating methioninase, which lessens or reduces the methionine in your system. Because we've learned through your research and all of the hundreds of documented papers you've published and the countless experiments, 60 years of research, that cancer has an addiction to methionine, which is an essential amino acid found in every protein, animal, and plant. And the more methionine you have in your system, the better cancer does. Is that more or less accurate?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, you know, Joe, that's right. So every living cell requires methionine. From the lowest, tiniest, teniest little bacterium to us, requires it. But cancers, for reasons we only partially understand, require a lot more. So we have a big differential between what the cancer needs and what the rest of the normal body needs. So we lower the methionine in the body way down to just what the normal cells need and way below what the cancer cells need. So it's a good start in starving the cancer for something it's addicted to. And for most patients, of course, we need chemo or we need immunotherapy or both. But it's a basic. Anybody with cancer should be on methionine restriction. There's period. Whether it's just the diet or you want to have more, the diet plus methionidase. Every patient, every patient needs to be on that. And there's no downside. There's no no side effects. You have to watch your calories a bit. Right. Yeah. The side effect is you're gonna maybe lose some weight. We have a medical food, right? Uh tons of calories and no methionine. We can supplement our diet a little bit with that.
SPEAKER_01I do it every day.
SPEAKER_00But if we're clever, we don't even need that. But it's it's helpful. So the bottom line: every patient, every single cancer patient should be on a low methionine diet. We've only known this since 1959. But it it doesn't get into the mainstream and it's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01And that's one of the reasons that we we talk about this, and you know, it's funny, I I try to always find a different angle to present it with because you just never know what's going to click with people. You know, when when I had the giant tumor sticking out of my neck, and I was before I met you, there was a chiropractor from near where you're at in San Diego. And he came over and he has all these different modalities, and he has a hyperbaric chamber, and he has this crystal energy stuff, and you know, some of the stuff is you know good science, some of it's a little woo-woo, some of it, and who knows? Maybe we just don't understand what woo-woo is.
SPEAKER_00If it doesn't hurt you, it's okay.
SPEAKER_01That's always been my theory.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that's on the one hand. I agree. Is it gonna help you? We don't how much energy are you gonna put into it?
SPEAKER_01But I remember he came over to my house when my cousin brought a few people trying to find help and answers for me. And I remember he was talking about vegan diet, and I was, you know, on a more keto diet, and I was just like, I don't want to be a vegan. I go, that's just not what I want to do. You know, I I I eat a lot of protein.
SPEAKER_00Hang on, one second for beef.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, I'm gonna pause. And so uh we'll stop again. No, no worries. So, anyways, this doctor Chris was telling me about you know the vegan diet, and I remember in the back of my head him mentioning methionine, but I didn't really hear it because I was busy rejecting what he was saying, and I was just saying, you know, I I I lost a lot of weight on a keto diet, I was in a really good healthy shape. But you remember my doctor telling me how I probably didn't have cancer because I was so healthy, and being healthy didn't necessarily help me in that point, and it helped your tumor grow, it helped my tumor grow. That is correct, and then somewhere down the line, weeks or a month later or so, I was researching and I stumbled, literally stumbled upon the term methionine, and something in the back of my head connected those dots. Thank God for my subconscious, because I could have walked right past it and I might not have ever seen it. But I started researching methionine, and then methioninease came up as a way to pull methionine out of your system. And I thought, you know, not knowing anything, I thought, well, cool, I'll just order some methioninase and take that as a supplement, and that'll that'll help me. And I and I came upon one of your articles in PubMed that was talking about cancer's addiction to methionine. I was like, what the hell? What about sugar? What about, you know, and and and so I I read, I skimmed through that article and I was like, wow, that I've never heard that before, but it it's legit, you know, and I saw your credentials, I saw the research behind it. I'm like, why am I not hearing about this? Why is nobody talking about this? Not in the supplement world, not in the naturopathic world, not in the cannabis world, nobody, nowhere. And I was like, okay, well, let me keep looking. So I searched at Amazon trying to find methioninase, no methioninase. I looked at all of my suppliers because I manufactured natural products, so I have all these different natural herb suppliers and things. I searched all of them, nothing. And finally I came up with a link to your nonprofit. Sent me like a one-line email. I did.
SPEAKER_00I'm like, I'd like to buy some ace signed joke.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that was it. And I thought, well, we'll see if I hear back from them. Because you know, most companies you send a message to, and maybe you hear back, maybe you don't. A lot of times you don't. Within a half an hour, I got an email back. Give me a call, and you gave me a phone number. I called you right back, and next thing you know, we're having a conversation just like this one. The rest is history, and the rest is history, yeah. And now I'm doing the same thing. I'm out there trying to tell everybody, and people generally don't want to listen, they don't want to hear it. And so it's okay.
SPEAKER_00New paradigm blockage. It's I mean, Thomas Kuhn's book just describes
How Joe Found Methionine Restriction
SPEAKER_00it perfectly. That the people just to get people to follow a new paradigm is really, really hard. It is, especially when you got the old paradigm so supported. And oh yeah, I mean, I I tell some of my students about the first kind of monkey man that try to walk on on two legs and all right, all the other people get back on all fours like the rest of us, yeah. And so and and I see the same thing with my little electric car. Right. Oh, you have so much trouble charging. Oh, I don't want to do that. Oh, yeah, I'm so glad I have my little gasoline car. Oh yeah, same thing, yeah. It's changing the paradigm, right? And and and especially at the doctor, methionine, never heard of it.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00You get that that's the kiss of death. And so it's tough, Joe. And and and we're we're gonna find uh the the the the the common one common feature of our patients on the zoom call very intelligent. This is a yes, everybody's a high IQ person, yes. Second they are willing to take risks, yes, risk taker people. And this is another thing. So this is very important, and and and so you have high intelligence mixed with willingness to take a risk, especially when your life is on the line with cancer. So one very small fraction of high intelligence, right, another very small fraction, right, willing to take a risk, and all of those two fractions even smaller multiple decrease.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00One half times one half is one fourth. One times one tenth is one out of a hundred.
SPEAKER_01Much less, yeah. Yeah, so it's a it's a small group comparative to and that's it.
SPEAKER_00That's what's out there. That's so as we've seen over the years, it's very we add only a couple people a year to that to that group. Right. No, I have couples a little exaggerated, but we don't add it fluctuates a little bit, but still, yeah. And you got two small fractions multiplied, and so that that that's it, you know.
SPEAKER_01The well, I'm always looking for people like like everywhere I go, you know, like I said, we run these sweat lodges now, and I get new people come out here all the time, and sometimes you can tell there's somebody I can spot a cancer patient a mile away now, you know. And and before oh, yeah, yeah, there's just certain certain traits, and you're like, oh, he's dealing with it. You know, you get in the club and you start spotting club members, I guess. But you know, we get a lot of a number of cancer patients come out and sit in our sweat lodge, and and a lot of them, you know, I tell them my story, this shows them the picture. I'll tell you I'll tell you a historical, little historical uh it may be true.
SPEAKER_00So when I was a kid, uh I got interested in presidential elections, just a little kick. Okay. And so somebody came up to Stevenson and said any intelligent person would vote for you, Mr. Stevenson. And Mr. Stevenson says, Yeah, but I need a majority.
SPEAKER_01Isn't that true though?
SPEAKER_00Isn't it true? I mean, and he of course he he was nominated twice and he got beaten twice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. He was ahead of the curve, I guess.
SPEAKER_00We face this problem, and and and the the cancer patient has so much going against them that the oncologist, the general oncologist is you know, first line, second line, if you're lucky clinical trial, next hospice. Uh no innovation whatsoever, follow the guidelines, not really care about the person, hates it when you challenge them. That's what you're up against. And you, in my opinion, at Irvine were kind of lucky because the lady oncologist kind of went against the guidelines a little bit. I convinced her you gotta give me the for three cycles, but she wasn't going for four. No way. And so you that was so lucky that you didn't get irradiated. So you know so but then you it hit the wall, and uh then you went over to Dr. Song,
Why New Medical Ideas Get Ignored
SPEAKER_00who's one of the most innovative oncologists, he's 83 years old. He's nobody's gonna tell him what guidelines practice. And he's one of the innovators of what we call modern chemo. And he said you're in a big institution, you it's all guidelines. When you're in a little private clinic like mine, he said, we can we can go around guidelines. I mean, he doesn't give unapproved drugs, but he doesn't necessarily follow a guideline, he'll follow a guideline if he thinks it's best for you. Right, agreed. Dr. Song, Tom Song, is a truly a great man. And I don't know if he's one in a thousand or one in a million, I don't know. But he's extremely rare. How many oncologists in this world are like Tom Song? I think Dr. Castro's right up there with him. Agreed, and surely Dr. Sato in Japan is yeah, Dr.
SPEAKER_01Sato's definitely in that league as well.
SPEAKER_00So rare. So patient is up against the system, right? Which the oncologist represents, and and they're doing their best. That's what they were taught. Right, this is what we do, and they often work for a bigger institution that says you can't deviate from the guidelines, and and they truly want to help people. There's no conspiracy or any of that kind of foolish.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't think so either. I just it's just uh you know, it it has to do that book, Thomas Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolution. I bring that book up at least once a once every week or two in a conversation. I'm like, you gotta read this book.
SPEAKER_00It's 64 years old, that book, and it'll be uh 640 years, it'll still be the the main way to understand how science and medicine progresses.
SPEAKER_01People think they understand science, even scientists think they understand science. Well, they don't, they don't, they don't understand the influences, they don't understand the obstacles.
SPEAKER_00A small fraction of what to know, and it's a friend of mine once criticized another person that said he doesn't even know what he doesn't know. Exactly. That's so true.
SPEAKER_01The older I get, the dumber I get, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_00And we're up against the toughest of all diseases. I don't know. This one oncologist who popularizes things Mukherchi or whatever his name is, was that his book? I think it's worth reading, although he's really a standard oncologist, is uh the uh he called cancer the emperor of all maladies.
SPEAKER_02There you go.
SPEAKER_00It's worth reading and we're up against it. But we know a few things, so let's take advantage of what we know.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Well, in the last week, not this most recent call, but the week before, Dr. Emil Exame was every time he talks, it it makes me happy because the guy has such a wealth of knowledge, and you know, he's a man that has got six years of additional life. Yeah, and just the smartest guy I've ever listened to, besides you, maybe, and his understanding of physiology and and biochemistry and and just the way he thinks, with just straight logic and and the body of evidence and the level of evidence as to weighing it, he doesn't get emotional about anything. He's like, This is what I see, this is what the evidence shows, it makes sense.
SPEAKER_00So a couple years ago, and he said, I was a doctor for 32 years, I was a surgeon for 32 years, and I didn't know what I know now, and he cried.
SPEAKER_01He said, I can't so many more people could have helped so many people, yeah. That's we're all like that. We're all like that, that's true, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Understood perfectly and articulated it perfectly. Yes, and he is in his sixth year of stage four lung cancer, maybe the person in the world, yeah, doing that. Uh he was talking when he was diagnosed as oncologist, said if I can see you in a year, it'll be a miracle.
SPEAKER_01Right. And here it is, six years later.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's because his brain always tried to stay ahead.
SPEAKER_01Ahead I've watched him change his little course and pathway three or four times uh in the short year and a half I've known him, and and he's just like you said, he's staying ahead of the game. Well, in this most recent call, he was talking about, in my opinion, something I'd never heard of before, and it's called deuterium depletion. And he forwarded me a book called Deuterium Depletion, a new way in curing cancer and preserving health. Obviously, that term curing cancer to me is a rough one. I don't necessarily know that that's even a thing, but the idea is what we're talking about is getting the cancer from killing you to not killing you, and and stop it from growing and and reverse it to where you can't detect it. That's a thing you can do. What do you know about this? Because I'm just starting to research it and the beginning of the book, the way that they talk about cancer, and I don't know about deuterium show.
SPEAKER_00I Dr. X Remay uh is completely out of my knowledge. Okay, I just say, as I always say, if it doesn't harm you, give it a try.
SPEAKER_01Well, the way that the beginning of this, they're talking about general characteristics of cancer and the paradigm shift in biology, talking about molecular, submolecular biology, and then they talk about deuterium. So I'm just beginning to read this book, and so far, their understanding of cancer aligns with what I know. And so I'm liking what I'm reading so far. I'm not hearing crazy things that don't make sense.
Staying Ahead With Combination Therapy
SPEAKER_01So they're the way that they're describing, you know, tumor growth and undetected cancer and the problem with it being undetectable for so long, and how it floats in the bloodstream looking for a place to land, and all of those things align with what we've talked about, align with what makes sense. So I'm I'm interested, most interested because the way Dr. Exame describes it was it is likely to be helpful in removing or reducing tumors, but it's most helpful so far that we know of keeping tumors from coming back, which is where I am. I am doing everything I can to keep tumors from coming back.
SPEAKER_00All of cancer, the whole cancer, keep the prevent or delay recurrence. That nothing is more important than that.
SPEAKER_01100% and it it's where I'm spending, you know, like when I had the tumor in my neck. I spent 95, 98% of all my waking hours working on getting that thing gone. That's it. That was my life. All I did was try to get rid of that tumor. Now that it's gone, I got to try to put my life back together and all that. But I still spend 30 to 40% of my waking hours thinking about, okay, I need to keep this thing gone. So it's focusing on keeping my diet clean, making sure I got my methioninase, making sure I'm still doing my oxygen therapy, my exercise, my heat therapy, all those things that I'm already doing. And I'm looking at stacking the next piece into that that can help it be bulletproof. I believe the Ketruda I'm taking is instrumental in that. I believe that. I hope it is. But I'm not relying on any of those things. Well, we know one thing, it's not coming back.
SPEAKER_00So far, so good. Yeah. So we can give ketruda some credit.
SPEAKER_01I will, and I continue to take it. I got approved for another year. That that's a good thing. But one of the things that we talk about in this in this group, and I think this is really important, is the emerging science. There's so much emerging science right now. There's there's there's everything from vaccinations to biological approaches to immunotherapy approaches, new drugs, new chemos, new radiations, ultrasound, histotripsy. There's all these new promising innovations that could be likely uh steps forward, let's just say. We I don't think we're ever gonna find one silver bullet, but we're gonna we're gonna find tools that a good oncologist can use if he's if he's well prepared. Or an intelligent patient can use, or an intelligent patient, especially an intelligent patient.
SPEAKER_00None of if we have cancer, we yeah, the oncologist is big, but it's not the whole story. We gotta be self.
SPEAKER_01I always said to myself, to you, to all the other oncologists out there, I said, I am the world's foremost expert on my cancer. That is my opinion, exactly right. And and I think every cancer patient should be the same. They, you know, learn it, know it. They are whether they realize it or not. Exactly. And hopefully that's good. You know, in my opinion, in my case, it was not everybody is that because it gotta use that, right?
SPEAKER_00Exactly. A lot of the patients, most of the patients are probably just intimidated. I've got this horrible cancer, and and my oncologist says this, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01I think a lot of it too is they get weary, you know, fighting cancer, knowing that you have cancer is brutal on the system. It's very when you first learn you have cancer, so brutal. It it's like getting broadsided by a pro football player, and just you just get knocked out, and you're just laying there trying to figure out how to breathe.
SPEAKER_00You know, the the the another paradigm in in popular culture, anyway. I got cancer and I'm gonna die, right? And that is so far from the truth, 100%. But that's the that's the popular paradigm. The big C. It's got I got the big C and I'm I'm a goner.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, no, it it is my entire goal in life, stage four, and I'm not a goner. No, I was stage four, and here I am, not a not a stage anymore. No, stage zero, and and it it's my goal in life to die from something that's not cancer.
SPEAKER_00Well, and that's not gonna be for a heck of a long time.
SPEAKER_01Oh no, I'm I like I said, I'm I'm hitting my midlife crisis right now. I figure I'm 60, maybe I'll live to be 120. Why not? I can't come up with a reason, anyways. I want to get to a couple other things. Number one, about a year ago, maybe a little less than a year ago, the NIH put on a symposium that talked about methionine and its effect on cancer. And it was maybe one of the first times something like that been done. The NIH is a is a major body of science.
SPEAKER_00And the major, the major body.
SPEAKER_01And and for for a group like that to not only even recognize the value of methionine restriction or its effect on cancer, but to actually conduct a symposium and bring on experts, that's a step, that's a crack in that paradigm. I don't know how far it's going to reach, but it happened and it's been documented, and they're talking about going further with it.
SPEAKER_00There's two people that made it happen. Yeah. The the person at NIH, actually the National Cancer Institute, Danny She, D-A-N-I, XI, and our patient, Dave Ferraro. Those two, because
Deuterium Depletion And Recurrence Prevention
SPEAKER_00of those two, there was the first time ever NIH put on a symposium of methionine and cancer. It was I think three different sessions. Yeah, yeah, I believe so. At least two for sure. These are people that have, for the most part, or maybe all have received grants from the National Cancer Institute that I think mo most, if not all, are administered by Dr. Shi. It was great. And the next step over a year ago, more than a year ago, was we need to we need to publish these presentations on the the NCI, National Canstitute, National Cancer Institute, whatever, website. And that hasn't happened yet. We all know that some people are putting their little political hands into the National Institutes of Health where they have no reason to be there. And so there's political issues. I can't I can't understand why anybody wouldn't want that those that symposium, you know, the the proceedings of that symposium to go on the website and and and and and and uh subsequently be published. It was fantastic, and then it was gonna be follow-up. So let me tell you a little bit of good news. Okay, Dr. She is still active. Yay. I went to a symposium a couple weeks ago on bacterial therapy of cancer.
SPEAKER_01Another interesting, I wanted to get to that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And Dr. Xi's department made a donation to that meeting to help advance so she's still on the leading edge, she's still there. I don't know the politics, I bet it's not easy, but she's hanging in there. So I think Dr. She's gonna be back with us. My feeling. I love it, I love it. And Dave is in touch with her. Yeah. So well, it there's there's we're gonna have a follow-up to that great thing that happened.
SPEAKER_01So the other piece is is you know, you publish papers regularly, and they get published in in medical journals, and then they end up being cataloged in in PubMed, which is clearing house of uh peer-reviewed.
SPEAKER_00It's a it's a compendium. PubMed is now about 42.5 million publications. All of them are available, at least for they're abstract, and a good many of them are available of the whole paper. PubMed is owned by the National Institutes of Health. One of the best things our government does. Yeah. Website survived the shutdowns that happened over the last while. Yeah. It's such a it's such an asset for learning. And the cancer patients, the good news, are learning how to use it.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00They're learning to read and and and see what they can do for themselves.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Well, and that's that's one of the one of the things that I wanted to bring up. You know, at one point back in last November, you published an article that talked about my journey and up until the point where I was at, where it had been reduced down to negligible.
SPEAKER_00Like, Joe, the your the follow-up paper, it's not quite accepted, but looks like looks like it's going to be accepted, and that will have your medpet results showing your your complete response.
SPEAKER_01I love it. So basically, we were able to get published in a peer-reviewed journal and then in the PubMed catalog. And what that's allowed me to do is when I talk to somebody who is skeptical or doubtful about the things I'm telling them when it comes to what they could do for their cancer. First thing I do is they go, let me send you a link to an article. And whether they're a doctor or by third parties, exactly talking. Exactly, exactly. And I go, look, this is in the journals. I I it's about me, but I didn't write it. And that's all I can say. I and and I've handed it to I would say dozens of doctors, at least two dozen doctors. I've handed it to many dozen patients and people that
NIH Recognition And PubMed Proof
SPEAKER_01are interested. I my opinion, the more people that read that, the more people will hopefully open their mind to these sorts of things. And it's been very, very helpful. From wow to oh, it's just an anecdote. Right, exactly. But even so, even if you can take it to it's an anecdote, we may take it to wows. Yeah. Well, you know what really is crazy, and and this just irks me a little bit, is you have a guy, like let's just say in quotes, Chris, who who who overcame a cancer, and he did a series of things, and his cancer's gone. Well, we don't ever know what did what, and we just know that his cancer is gone. So he goes and writes a book about what he did, and he says, I did this, so it cured my cancer, so you can do it too. And what is he doing? It's a complete anecdote. There's no science behind any of it, it's a good story. I I read it myself, and I said, Yeah, most of what he says is good. There's nothing wrong about it, but to make a claim that if you do this thing, it's gonna cure your cancer, is in my opinion, irresponsible. And there's so many books like that, there's so many testimonials.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you're just gonna call for books, Joe, they're not peer-reviewed.
SPEAKER_01No, but but they get accepted, they get accepted papers, yeah.
SPEAKER_00By the way, Joe, there's a second patient, it's published. You can see it if you go to the easy way for our paper, Hoffman R. M. Mathionine, gets you a whole 50 years. And there's a paper. I don't know who's the first author, but you'll see head and neck cancer. So this patient is a young lady. She had this horrible jaw surgery, and I guess she had radiation, but uh and she recurred.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, which is what's most most likely to happen.
SPEAKER_00Then she got she went on methionine restriction with methioninase, and she got radio uh Dr. Sato's radioimmunotherapy. Okay, and she's she's a CR just like you. I love it, I love it. How long? We don't I don't know, but she so this lady is so diligent. Yes, she never, yeah, she's gonna be on methionine restriction all her life. Yeah, she doesn't want that thing coming back. No, and and she's obviously very, very intelligent, yeah. And um, there we are. So there now there's an N of two. So oh, N of one, ooh, ooh.
SPEAKER_01Now that's two times one, and and and not only that, but that particular cancer, the head and neck squamous cell carcinoma, is a very aggressive, smart, nasty cancer that loves to change, loves to metastasize, and loves to come back. And I'm I'm in a group that has over 500 people in it, and the vast majority of the stories in that group, people gone through 30 doses of radiation, chemo, surgery, all of those things. And most of the time, not only are they debilitated by the treatments, they can't swallow, they can't, their their teeth have fallen out, their their salivary glands don't work, they can't talk, they got a G tube for the rest of their life, all of these things just from the treatment, not from the cancer. And then they go through all that, and then the cancer comes back, anyways. Yep. And I and that's throwing into the pain, the suffering, the can't sleep, and all of that that comes from both. And and like I said, then it comes back again. I couldn't imagine the disheartening blow of you went through all the stuff they told you to do, it tore you apart, and they say, Well, you'll survive it, get through it. They always say the same thing, basically, you know, ring the bell, you'll be fine. And I'm like, I didn't ring the bell when I was done with chemo. I don't have any bell to ring, I just want to be healthy, that's all. And and so, but I watched this happen over and again, and not once in this whole group, and I've I've taken a few people privately. I'm not trying to hijack the group, but it's it's a place for people to share their story. But I've taken people behind the scenes and and and told them about my story and shared my article, and it's the same as everywhere else. The thing is, is people get weary. You get weary when you get when you find out you have it, and then whatever treatment it is, it beats you up too. It doesn't matter if it's radiation, chemo, some common, even the diet's hard, it beats you up a little bit. You know, you have to sacrifice things that you love, you end up struggling to keep keep weight on. It's a it's a chore. And then to find out that you got to do it all over again. Well, and you probably can't, and most people can't, yeah. And like you said, the cancers adapted already to what you did in the first time.
SPEAKER_00It's it's multifocal in the lung, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Um oh boy, that takes me to the the last piece of the pie here. Yesterday in our meeting, we we stopped a little short. There's not always a whole lot to talk about when you have the same people on. Sometimes, usually there's new people, a lot of new things to talk about. But halfway through, we were about done, and you mentioned you're working on a grant with somebody. And I I I want to bring up on the show as regularly as I can. You have a nonprofit, and I run a nonprofit. The hardest thing to do is to get a nonprofit up and running and standing on its own and have somebody pay for things. And grants are one of the ways that that can happen. Why don't you tell us about your nonprofit and how it's funded and how it works, and maybe somebody will hear and and and want to help?
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, I did this kind of late in life around 2012. One of the people in the lab said, Why don't you do it? And I I said, Okay. So this is way back then. I I hired a lawyer who's expert in nonprofits, and this lawyer made sure the application
Nonprofit Funding And Research Reality Checks
SPEAKER_00was consistent with becoming a 501c3 corporation, which is an IRS designation of a tax-deductible nonprofit. I haven't I haven't used it to get grants or anything, but I use it for the patience to make donations. It's all tax deductible. I have to hire a pretty good accountant every year. And his name is Scott Carpenter. I think he's terrific.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And uh he takes care of the the tax returns, which are not simple.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00So what I've learned recently, and I helped a friend from a for-profit.
SPEAKER_01Hold on, Joe, sorry. No, no, take your time. I'm gonna pause it again here. Oh, okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_00It was a a good a good I'm I met through a good friend of mine. He's he's from Japan, but he he he lived here 18 years and he's a big businessman. And he introduced me to a lawyer, a very nice lawyer. And nice lawyer introduced me to this service for former companies. It's called they call themselves Ink Serve, INC C E R V. Their real name is Incorporation Services. You can see them on the internet. Okay. Another friend we used InkServe to form an LLC for another Japanese friend, a US LLC, a California LLC. A couple hundred bucks, they did everything. It happened within I don't know, 36 hours it took or something, and and they were online. I haven't tried yet, but I'm guessing Inkserve can help form a nonprofit, and they charge very quickly the little money. Okay. So anybody that wants to form a non-profit, I recommend start off with InkServe. Uh we used back in 2012, but it cost us plenty, I don't know how much because it's a long time ago, but it was a lot of money.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00InkSurve. I I mean, I'll just tell you this is kind of an anecdote. My Russian friend Eugene was ready to start his company a few years ago, and they were you people were lawyers were telling them it's gonna cost 20,000. Okay. That's a lot more InkServe, but my good friend, a great lawyer Matt Valenny, did it for him for 200. Oh, nice. Wow. Inkserve is less than that. Quite a difference. Wow. It's so easy to form a company. InkServe will they're based in Delaware. A lot of people like to form Delaware companies because if they ever get sued, the it the the trial will be in Delaware, and and that the home team does very well in Delaware.
SPEAKER_02I bet.
SPEAKER_00So I don't know. I mean you can see you can just go on your phone, Joe, and you'll see Inkserve.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And they're terrific. So anybody that wants to form an LLC, an INC, or a nonprofit 501c3, I recommend starting with them.
SPEAKER_01Nice. So with your nonprofit, you you have two companies. You have one company that basically makes the the McCanninese.
SPEAKER_00That's been around for 42 years.
SPEAKER_01And and what how is that sponsor? How is that funded? Huh? How is that funded? It's funded through the non-profit. That's what I figured. Yeah. So the two, I mean, I I do the same thing. I have a for-profit and a non-profit, and they they they work together in concert.
SPEAKER_00We don't make a profit, and yeah about that. I we just want to be self-sustainable for right. And we are, and yeah, and and and you know, we've learned how to be self-sustainable, and and we're gonna be self-sustainable for the next hundred years or whatever. And but imagine if you could get an injection of a we don't have the millions and the billions self-sustainable to do what we want to do, and that's to do great cancer research, move the field forward, and help patients who cannot get help elsewhere.
SPEAKER_01And so uh if we Could find more attention to that, what you're doing, the work you're doing. If people had any idea of the amount of research you do and the amount of papers you've published, that everything I've seen so far validates your work. Everything that I've seen you publish has shown me that methionine restriction helps in virtually every treatment that you've tested. And you've test them most of the time in mice. You have these special mice that you test on, but you have other ways that you test as well. And you keep showing over and over again that when you remove methionine, the cancer cells die. When you remove other things, or they become more sensitive to chlorine. Right, right. It it hurts them, it doesn't help them. And and the healthy cells, though, we've talked about this in past episodes. So, like when you talk about glucose or cysteine or some of the other things that people are like, well, that's your magic bullet. Recent publications, Dr.
SPEAKER_00Miyashi's publications, right? This thing cysteine requirement, yeah, it's not cancer specific, glucose requirement is not cancer specific, right? All that stuff these people raving about for the last hundred years, right?
SPEAKER_01Well, and if you take it out of the healthy cells, the healthy cells die. So you can't do it.
SPEAKER_00We did something that a high school exactly could be could do. We we took normal cells and we took cancer cells and we restricted them of cysteine or or glucose or methionine or glutamine. Right. Not only did we do it in parallel cultures, right? And and showed uh and compared each one with methionine restriction, and we did it in even a co-culture where we would put in one culture dish the normal cells and the cancer cells. And if you look that culture of methionine, you kill the cancer cells, and the normal cells do good. Yeah, if you you if you restrict cysteine, you restrict glucose, you restrict glutamine, you kill them both.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and that's the part that people don't get so simple, so logical.
SPEAKER_00And you read these sophisticated papers and the best oh, cysteine, and and 20 different genes are tested, and this and this and this, yeah, yeah, yeah. Simple side-by-side comparison, cancer and normal cells, just look at cancer. Well, heck, I can kill cancer with sulfuric acid, it's easy, right? Exactly. It's easy to kill cancer cells, kill everything with it, though. Yeah, in the world, but how do you kill the cancer cell without killing the patient?
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00This is what has been so hard for the last 5,000 years, right?
SPEAKER_01Well, in my opinion, the fact that it was discovered that the methionine is this Achilles heal for the cancer is the best news ever.
SPEAKER_00Right in 1959, Joe. Yep. And journal, archives of biochemistry and biophysics. The experiments were done at NIH.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I bet today the only person at NIH that knows those experiments are Dr.
SPEAKER_01There you go, but at least she knows it. And there's one, and and that's that's becoming more. Well, in my opinion, that's the one thing that gives us a chance to overcome cancer, because if cancer cells and healthy cells all needed the same thing, there'd be almost no way to solve the problem. And at least we have we have something that we can overcome the cancer with and not overcome the healthy cells.
SPEAKER_00Well, it it takes a you know a lot of thinking and combination therapy, and even that sometimes doesn't work, but we're in the right, we're in the right direction. There's no question. And you're a one of the you're the super example of this.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's that's my goal is to to now be the super spreader of information.
SPEAKER_00What you are now, uh it was the methining restriction or it was the chemo, or we can't all of it, yeah. Okay, but we can sure say you're all better.
SPEAKER_01I can sure say that, that is for sure. Well, and that's the thing, too. It's like it's it's really great sitting with this group because all the people or the majority of them, when I showed up on the group, I I showed up, you know, with this grapefruit sticking out of my neck, and everybody saw I saw their eyes when I when I popped in, and you know, and then we we walked that journey together, you know. And now when I have a conversation, I know I'm a little yappy sometimes, and I jump in. No, it's a hundred percent true. So if if you had a message to any of our listeners, and of course, I'm hoping that you know we have some people that
The Core Message And Next Steps
SPEAKER_01are in that small percentage of people that are both intelligent and willing to take a risk. But if you had a message for all of these people listening today, what do you think that would be? Listen to Joe.
SPEAKER_00I mean it. All right, Joe. That's my message. You're the living proof of what you talk about. This is true. I do walk the walk. Only you have gotten this fantastic response and know so much to be able to convey it to other people in a very understandable way. So, my message all the podcaster listeners out there, my message is listen to Joe. He's a living proof of what he says.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you, Robert, and it is always a pleasure working with you. I I enjoy our conversations, I'm inspired, but most importantly, I have in no small part you to thank for me being here today. And it's just an absolute pleasure.
SPEAKER_00In the Bible, it says you save one person, you save the world. There we go. We're out there to save one person at a time if we can do our best. If we don't have a million people following us yet, okay. How about one? There you go. I'll take one more. Every one of you who wants to come and listen to Joe, you're a treasure and you're gonna receive a treasure.
SPEAKER_01And maybe more importantly, come in and listen to the call and the links in every show.
SPEAKER_00And I think we love the call because there's so many other patients that can confirm what we're you and I are talking about.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Uh, but if you don't want to listen to the call, then coming on, and I'll keep yapping. All right, Robert. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure. I want to thank all of our listeners for making this show possible, and we will talk to you all next time.
